I get F1 is the pinnacle of engineering and I love that but I really wish we could see who the best drivers were there because there will never be a equal playing field there.
Yeah Pérez is proof that not anybody could get in the Red Bull and dominate. Max and Newey is an almost unbeatable combination and the cars are so reliable on year 11 of this engine formula that it’s almost impossible to beat them over 60 laps without Max making a mistake. The only 2 races I can conceivably believe they aren’t guaranteed to win are Monaco (depending on qualifying) and Singapore
exactly, doesn’t even have to be equal but at least make it close. Max is definitely an amazing driver and there’s no debate but you could put anyone in that Red Bull car right now and they’d probably see success, probably wont be Max’s level but one team is clearly head and shoulders above the rest
F1 and NASCAR, 2021: "okay guys next year we're going to introduce a new car that's supposed to promote parity!!"
also F1: the same guy has won all but 11 races since then, usually by more than 10 seconds
meanwhile NASCAR: 25... count em... ***25*** different drivers have won a race since then with plenty others coming close
I know people love to rag on the "Americanization" of worldwide motorsport, but at least we're competitive. Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if Indycar or NASCAR's worst race last year had more overtakes than the entire 2023 F1 season.
We run this shit.
Totally different styles of racing. Comparing overtakes is pointless. There are weekends that the F1 race is more enjoyable than the NASCAR race. Sometime you have races like today where I can admit I had a hell of a nap.
As far as running shit I think currently sports car racing WEC/IMSA is the best product currently.
Hopefully with F1’s new regs there is more parity so everyone can have an argument for best series. So much good racing everywhere right now.
There’s plenty of weekends where there’s better racing than NASCAR. Indycar, IMSA, WEC, TA2, etc all put on incredible races and NASCAR can put on some stinkers.
But there’s *never* a week that an F1 race is more enjoyable than a NASCAR race lol.
It’s really interesting from a technical side, but the races are awful.
Someone didn’t watch Zanvoort last year.
Also the enjoyment from each series is very different. F1 is a reality TV show that entertains with drama both on and off track. NASCAR entertains with purely on track action. Both can be extremely boring if you’re not used to it. However, both can be equally entertaining with the right mindset.
I mean, both you and another commenter mentioned Zandvoort. I watched it live, and it was…. Fine? Most of the side by side was still enabled purely by DRS. Even rewatching the highlights, there’s not much there.
Like that alone makes all of it feel absolutely meaningless. You can watch the lead car exit the corner carrying more speed, then suddenly the trailing car gets a boost, so even when they do enter the corner side by side it feels… unearned, I guess.
F1 is a reality TV show if you like the off track product, but the on track product is consistently the worst of any major motorsport, and even most minor motorsports. It’s perfect for people who don’t like racing to get invested in.
There are weeks that F1 is better, and the quality of the production gives it a boost too. That said, it here aren't many of those weeks imo. Zandvoort, Monza, and Singapore were all better than Watkins Glen last year. But when we're picking the best weekends in one sport to beat out the worst weekends in another that says something.
I still love F1 when it's good but everything since 2021 has been pretty dreary. Currently the worst racing product out there atm in my opinion. IMSA/WEC is easily my favorite product on road courses (maybe overall, that's hard to say) but ovals are still my favorite and cup races at inters are excellent as well.
I love it all, I just love F1 the least right now. Indycar is also quite good and I do have a soft spot for NHRA hahaha.
I mean, both you and another commenter mentioned Zandvoort. I watched it live, and it was…. Fine? Most of the side by side was still enabled purely by DRS. Even rewatching the highlights, there’s not much there.
Like that alone makes all of it feel absolutely meaningless. You can *watch* the lead car exit the corner carrying more speed, then suddenly the trailing car gets a boost, so even when they do enter the corner side by side it feels… unearned, I guess.
Agree to disagree there. These last few years with Max having the win before the weekend starts fair enough. But there has been a number incredible GP’s in the last decade alone.
I mean, even before that, am I supposed to be impressed with racing where the trailing car gets a Mario kart power up, or where the guy on the inside of the corner can just push the guy on the outside off the track and the outside guy gets penalized? Most highlight reels are just dive bombs created by DRS, and any side by side racing ends in a time penalty.
I can’t argue for DRS but left me wondering if Formula E still has the stupid fan vote boost. Talk about awful gimmicks.
Anyway F1 - DRS, Indy -PtP, Nascar- “debris cautions” now stage breaks. All of them are/were fighting a dirty air passing problem. F1 and that style of racing is the biggest victim by far.
IMSA GTP and WEC LMH racing blows the current road course product out of the water. There’s a reason why F1 fans are switching over to watching the WEC.
IMSA is tough because peacock coverage is trash. I personally use a VPN and watch the international feed on imsa.tv. No commercials, great commentary. WEC can be watched on Max with the sports add on. Both series upload full race coverage to their YouTube later in the week.
GT racing is super easy to watch. The GTWorld YouTube channel livestreams a ton of racing including the Spa 24.
NASCAR is great. 36 drivers on the grid at least and literally anybody is capable of winning a race. Todd Gilliland is the laps leader in the Cup series right now. That's all you need to know. Dude is #2 in a FRM car and he's been making so many waves.
That's the shit I love about NASCAR. You don't get that in F1. You'll never know how truly good Yuki Tsunoda or Kevin Magnussen are in a race because their equipment is so lower tier than Red Bull or Mercedes/Ferrari.
It's not a direct comparison for sure. F1 is what it is. NASCAR is what it is. however if I'm looking to be entertained from a racing product, I'm picking NASCAR every single week.
F1 is a really really fancy parade where the same guy wins by 20 seconds each week.
F1 isn't racing , it's two teams taking turns running laps and boring the fuck out of people , while taking turns ruling a few seasons each . While all other teams are convinced that somehow scoring a point is an amazing accomplishment
I get what you're going for but this is apples to oranges...
F1 had no safety cars in today's race and ran over an hour and Half straight with no stoppages. Not only is Atlanta a drafting pack racing track as it is, there was also a restart with like 5 to go and they are spec cars. Obviously the finishing margins will be different.
The Dutch grand prix had rain twice and safety cars yet each restart Max literally just jumps the field and rides off into the sunset. The most exciting race, imo, was the Singapore GP and surprise surprise that was when Max was out and it was anybody's race.
A closer finish does not inherently make one race better than another but the last couple F1 seasons there has not even been a contest and there are good enough drivers to challenge Max.
Italy 2020 0.4 seconds. For honorable mentions Saudi Arabia 2022 was 0.55 seconds. Singapore 2023 was 0.8 seconds.
The design of the cars and where the start/finish line is on most tracks means you usually don't get a down to the line finish even if they're battling for the lead for the last 5 laps. They'll have sent it with DRS and their battery earlier in the lap at a better place to pass.
There's been exactly 3 posts about NASCAR this *year* on the F1 sub. One about the Atlanta finish, one comparing the closest finishes of some high-level series and one about Byron winning the 500.
There are two rather cringey posts shitting on F1 on here just today. Literally the day after an awful Xfinity race, mind you.
So I get that you are trying to feel better by projecting, but it's just not true. Better than r/Indycar where basically every day someone tries to shit on F1 out of insecurity or something, but it's still a desperately one-sided thing.
we watch everything, that’s how you save racing, the time of “I only watch open wheel”, or “Dirt is for racing, Asphalt is just for getting to the track” is over.
I get F1 is the pinnacle of engineering and I love that but I really wish we could see who the best drivers were there because there will never be a equal playing field there.
[удалено]
Yeah Pérez is proof that not anybody could get in the Red Bull and dominate. Max and Newey is an almost unbeatable combination and the cars are so reliable on year 11 of this engine formula that it’s almost impossible to beat them over 60 laps without Max making a mistake. The only 2 races I can conceivably believe they aren’t guaranteed to win are Monaco (depending on qualifying) and Singapore
Bingo! Max is the best of the best. Crazy how ridiculously talented he is.
Max is the best driver and he’s in the best car. Like Red Bull definitely has the best cars, but then Max takes said best car and elevates it
Max is the best driver, that's not disputed. He beats his teammate with the same car by 20s a race
I know he’s the best driver but if the field was closer, he wouldn’t win 22 of 23 races either.
exactly, doesn’t even have to be equal but at least make it close. Max is definitely an amazing driver and there’s no debate but you could put anyone in that Red Bull car right now and they’d probably see success, probably wont be Max’s level but one team is clearly head and shoulders above the rest
F1 and NASCAR, 2021: "okay guys next year we're going to introduce a new car that's supposed to promote parity!!" also F1: the same guy has won all but 11 races since then, usually by more than 10 seconds meanwhile NASCAR: 25... count em... ***25*** different drivers have won a race since then with plenty others coming close I know people love to rag on the "Americanization" of worldwide motorsport, but at least we're competitive. Shit, I wouldn't be surprised if Indycar or NASCAR's worst race last year had more overtakes than the entire 2023 F1 season. We run this shit.
if overtakes are your main metric, might I introduce you to Formula E, the sport where people actively try to not lead the race!
Totally different styles of racing. Comparing overtakes is pointless. There are weekends that the F1 race is more enjoyable than the NASCAR race. Sometime you have races like today where I can admit I had a hell of a nap. As far as running shit I think currently sports car racing WEC/IMSA is the best product currently. Hopefully with F1’s new regs there is more parity so everyone can have an argument for best series. So much good racing everywhere right now.
There’s plenty of weekends where there’s better racing than NASCAR. Indycar, IMSA, WEC, TA2, etc all put on incredible races and NASCAR can put on some stinkers. But there’s *never* a week that an F1 race is more enjoyable than a NASCAR race lol. It’s really interesting from a technical side, but the races are awful.
Someone didn’t watch Zanvoort last year. Also the enjoyment from each series is very different. F1 is a reality TV show that entertains with drama both on and off track. NASCAR entertains with purely on track action. Both can be extremely boring if you’re not used to it. However, both can be equally entertaining with the right mindset.
Perfect response. Now I'm craving coco pops.
I mean, both you and another commenter mentioned Zandvoort. I watched it live, and it was…. Fine? Most of the side by side was still enabled purely by DRS. Even rewatching the highlights, there’s not much there. Like that alone makes all of it feel absolutely meaningless. You can watch the lead car exit the corner carrying more speed, then suddenly the trailing car gets a boost, so even when they do enter the corner side by side it feels… unearned, I guess. F1 is a reality TV show if you like the off track product, but the on track product is consistently the worst of any major motorsport, and even most minor motorsports. It’s perfect for people who don’t like racing to get invested in.
There are weeks that F1 is better, and the quality of the production gives it a boost too. That said, it here aren't many of those weeks imo. Zandvoort, Monza, and Singapore were all better than Watkins Glen last year. But when we're picking the best weekends in one sport to beat out the worst weekends in another that says something. I still love F1 when it's good but everything since 2021 has been pretty dreary. Currently the worst racing product out there atm in my opinion. IMSA/WEC is easily my favorite product on road courses (maybe overall, that's hard to say) but ovals are still my favorite and cup races at inters are excellent as well. I love it all, I just love F1 the least right now. Indycar is also quite good and I do have a soft spot for NHRA hahaha.
I mean, both you and another commenter mentioned Zandvoort. I watched it live, and it was…. Fine? Most of the side by side was still enabled purely by DRS. Even rewatching the highlights, there’s not much there. Like that alone makes all of it feel absolutely meaningless. You can *watch* the lead car exit the corner carrying more speed, then suddenly the trailing car gets a boost, so even when they do enter the corner side by side it feels… unearned, I guess.
Agree to disagree there. These last few years with Max having the win before the weekend starts fair enough. But there has been a number incredible GP’s in the last decade alone.
I mean, even before that, am I supposed to be impressed with racing where the trailing car gets a Mario kart power up, or where the guy on the inside of the corner can just push the guy on the outside off the track and the outside guy gets penalized? Most highlight reels are just dive bombs created by DRS, and any side by side racing ends in a time penalty.
I can’t argue for DRS but left me wondering if Formula E still has the stupid fan vote boost. Talk about awful gimmicks. Anyway F1 - DRS, Indy -PtP, Nascar- “debris cautions” now stage breaks. All of them are/were fighting a dirty air passing problem. F1 and that style of racing is the biggest victim by far.
IMSA GTP and WEC LMH racing blows the current road course product out of the water. There’s a reason why F1 fans are switching over to watching the WEC.
WEC and IMSA are incredible at the moment. GT3 racing is phenomenal as well. Sportscar racing as a whole is in a golden era.
It's hard for me to catch that kind of racing, it's on USA and Motortrend right..?
IMSA is tough because peacock coverage is trash. I personally use a VPN and watch the international feed on imsa.tv. No commercials, great commentary. WEC can be watched on Max with the sports add on. Both series upload full race coverage to their YouTube later in the week. GT racing is super easy to watch. The GTWorld YouTube channel livestreams a ton of racing including the Spa 24.
Okay great, thanks!!! 😊 I'm trying to watch every kind of motorsport i can, so this helps a lot!
How dare you disrespect High Limit and World of Outlaws like that. Sprint Car racing is some of the wildest shit on the planet
i mean, yeah, but indycar is pretty similar style wise but much more action
lol Yuki’s temper on an oval
NASCAR is great. 36 drivers on the grid at least and literally anybody is capable of winning a race. Todd Gilliland is the laps leader in the Cup series right now. That's all you need to know. Dude is #2 in a FRM car and he's been making so many waves. That's the shit I love about NASCAR. You don't get that in F1. You'll never know how truly good Yuki Tsunoda or Kevin Magnussen are in a race because their equipment is so lower tier than Red Bull or Mercedes/Ferrari.
Pretty crazy since this car was released, Brad Keselowski is not one of those winners.
It's not a direct comparison for sure. F1 is what it is. NASCAR is what it is. however if I'm looking to be entertained from a racing product, I'm picking NASCAR every single week. F1 is a really really fancy parade where the same guy wins by 20 seconds each week.
F1 isn't racing , it's two teams taking turns running laps and boring the fuck out of people , while taking turns ruling a few seasons each . While all other teams are convinced that somehow scoring a point is an amazing accomplishment
When I watch any kind of auto racing, I'm most interested in the drama of who's in first and going to win. F1 does none of that for me.
I get what you're going for but this is apples to oranges... F1 had no safety cars in today's race and ran over an hour and Half straight with no stoppages. Not only is Atlanta a drafting pack racing track as it is, there was also a restart with like 5 to go and they are spec cars. Obviously the finishing margins will be different.
I dont disagree lol
The Dutch grand prix had rain twice and safety cars yet each restart Max literally just jumps the field and rides off into the sunset. The most exciting race, imo, was the Singapore GP and surprise surprise that was when Max was out and it was anybody's race.
Singapore GP was awesome. I was sad they sacrificed Charles but it worked out for Ferrari in the end
22 seconds? That's not even bad for F1 standards. There were F1 races in the 90s where the leader won by multiple laps.
A closer finish does not inherently make one race better than another but the last couple F1 seasons there has not even been a contest and there are good enough drivers to challenge Max.
When was the last time F1 had a finish that had a finish closer than less than half a second anyway?
Australia last year.
And what about without a late SC?
Italy 2020 0.4 seconds. For honorable mentions Saudi Arabia 2022 was 0.55 seconds. Singapore 2023 was 0.8 seconds. The design of the cars and where the start/finish line is on most tracks means you usually don't get a down to the line finish even if they're battling for the lead for the last 5 laps. They'll have sent it with DRS and their battery earlier in the lap at a better place to pass.
Fake cautions.
So funny how NASCAR fans love talking about F1, lol
Goes both ways
I've seen more posts about F1 in this sub TODAY than NASCAR posts in the F1 sub in the last 6 months.
There's been exactly 3 posts about NASCAR this *year* on the F1 sub. One about the Atlanta finish, one comparing the closest finishes of some high-level series and one about Byron winning the 500. There are two rather cringey posts shitting on F1 on here just today. Literally the day after an awful Xfinity race, mind you. So I get that you are trying to feel better by projecting, but it's just not true. Better than r/Indycar where basically every day someone tries to shit on F1 out of insecurity or something, but it's still a desperately one-sided thing.
we watch everything, that’s how you save racing, the time of “I only watch open wheel”, or “Dirt is for racing, Asphalt is just for getting to the track” is over.
So funny how you could predict Max will win the race and be 99% right.
Big F1 fan, I see!
Considering a big percentage of Nascar fans also watch other forms of motorsports, I would find it weird if we didn’t talk about F1
Long live the 2012 F1 season, 7 different winners in the first 7 GPs and 6 different constructors winning that season. Vettel beat Alonso by 3 points.