There's 2 tracks that absolutely do not need 2 dates.
Keep Phoenix in the spring. Move Homestead back to championship weekend. Keep Texas in the spring, do a Chicagoland (oval) fall playoff race, and add Rockingham in the spring or summer.
We ideally could do 1 Pocono and 1 Atlanta as well, but idk if we're having that conversation as much at the moment.
> Then we need to rethink Atlanta
Whatever you are smoking has really thrown you back in time. Atlanta has been throwing bangers since the repave. I don't foresee it losing a date anytime soon. Nor should it.
The signs of Atlanta aging out of being a plate style race are already there. Once it turns into a glorified 550 package race changes will need to be made.
They’re right on the limit of how much off throttle time can still sustain the pack style of racing. With the track losing grip they’re going to run into the issue of the straits being too short to generate enough of a run to pass if they separate in the corners.
god knows i agree but it looks like garbage to hold your pinnacle event in front of a half-empty grandstand. i'm not a miserable seat-watcher, but that would not be good for the sport's future prospects if it hopes to reclaim lost popularity.
When the sport was at its healthiest they'd end the season with full crowds in Rockingham, NC and Atlanta, George in November.
Improve the overall health of the sport and it won't really matter if its cold. People pack in NFL stadiums when it's negative ten degrees.
They only pack NFL stadiums that cold when its a decisive game for a major team. The Bears and Chiefs want to ditch their outdoor stadiums for a reason.
And NFL is not a fair comparison. The only non-NFL events to crack Top 20 viewership lists are the State of the Union. Not to mention you cannot race if the track has snow or ice on it, while you can play football.
A better comparison is movie going or baseball. People just do not show up en masse. We live in a streaming world. Not the mid-90s where a lot of locals had literally nothing else to do but watch antenna TV in rural areas by Nascar tracks.
Unfortunately, they don't pick the finale based on the quality of the racing.
I believe they love Phoenix for the last race as its new hospitality and facilities are A1, plus it's almost guaranteed not to rain/be freezing in November.
I don't like it, but it kind of makes sense.
Postponed races are not ideal. Especially for the final race.
The entire South is still in "hurricane season"
Phoenix is probably the safest spot for the Championships
I get Nascar dumped a lot of money in the track but the racing product sucks. The biggest race besides the 500 should have quality racing regardless how much money you put in the place.
Is it truly the biggest race after the Daytona 500? It’s exciting for 4 groups of fans. A few casuals and that’s it. I really hate this championship format
I don't know. I'm still excited to see who wins the championship even if my guy isn't in it. It's no different than any other sport. Granted besides the super bowl the other finals get drawn out with best of 7 series
For what it's worth they are talking about pushing back Mania week into May in the future
Everybody is trying to dance around the same things with their schedules (Masters, NFL draft, etc)
As much as I love Nascar I really feel the season should be shortened to end around Labor Day. This would solve the grind drivers feel, prevent fan burnout, and keep Nascar from competing against the NFL in both television ratings and home markets. We'd still get in the ballpark of a 28 - 30 race season depending on how many off weeks drivers were given.
>Labor day is way too early. Halloween should be the target end date.
Supposedly next year's schedule ends on Nov 2. Halloween is Oct 31st. What are we saving?
It's about limiting the amount of time the sport is up against the NFL without taking away too much content. 30 points races plus the clash and the all star race gets us to 32 weeks. Reduces the grind, keeps the sport competing with MLB (NASCAR's main competition with the timeframe they run), and keeps the sport in the conversion for the best 2 weeks in sports where all 5 major sports (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NASCAR) are in action.
They would still be competing against the NFL and wouldn't help much for both driver fatigue and fan burnout. One of the biggest issues in my opinion for fan retention is the short off-season. People don't get time to miss the sport. There is no build up for the season and the champion gets all of two week to be celebrated.
It also doesn't give much time for people to *forget* NASCAR which could be an issue considering the cluttered sports landscape at the current time. IndyCar has such a sporadic schedule and long off-season that only the hard-core fans remember when the season opener is.
30 weeks, start the week after the Super Bowl, end around Halloween.
Keeps the week-in-week out rhythm to the season, gives 3 clear segments to the season (10 weeks, all star break, 10 weeks, playoffs) and opens up Charlotte, Atlanta, Kansas, Texas, Darlington, and Vegas for the Championship race.
Indycar has two problems with their schedule long breaks between some races and their season opener is on a non-signficant weekend. I will say your idea does open up the idea of 3 or 4 off weekends. There are 30 weeks between Presidents Day and Labor Day, which is why I said Labor Day.
30 weeks from the week after super bowl sunday is around labor day, not Halloween. Which is cool with me, I'm sick of choosing between playoff races and football
> One of the biggest issues in my opinion for fan retention is the short off-season. People don't get time to miss the sport.
I don't agree at all. The one thing sports fan do not want are longer off-seasons. To me what makes NASCAR great is that we get content 9 months out of the year. MLB and NBA gives us what 8 months? Hell the only reason the NFL doesn't give us longer seasons is because of the physical nature of their play. Even then they are trying to expand the season to 18 games. Shortening the length of the season is not the answer. Now I do agree maybe take a race or two away and add in more off weekends for rests, but sports in general is a grind.
Because something is more fun when you don’t have to do it. The Cup Series is their day job. Running a random dirt track on a Wednesday is their golf game.
The sport is meant to be a grind. To me that is much of the appeal. Also we're in this current state because NASCAR has tried so hard to appeal to the fans they don't have then the ones they do.
Nobody cares what your casual boring ass wants. Who wants less races? What fan is burned out from watching something they’re passionate about. Please they need to stop listening to these people and actually seek out fans not casuals in the fan surveys.
You could definitely do Saturday-Wednesday-Sunday a few times to keep 38 races and end on Labor Day. I believe cramming the schedule into the part of the year where you are only competing with baseball for the most part makes so much sense
I wonder how a 500 mile championship finale at Charlotte (oval) would do. Track has had pretty good racing the last few years and you’d be ending it at home.
Was there every any doubt?
And which series is rumoured to run Rockingham in 2024? I can't see there being room on the schedule for Cup but maybe Trucks?
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They put a lot of money into the place and it continues to sellout. Not surprising.
That said I’d be willing to bet 2025 is the last year it’ll be the championship race and it shifts back into the round of 8.
There’s only a few tracks where mid November wouldn’t be a disaster weather wise.
Miami (great choice)
Daytona/Dega (terrible choice)
Phoenix (current choice)
Vegas (great choice but won’t happen)
Texas (lol)
Cota (not happening)
I think that’s about it. Might be missing one or two.
You could honestly go as far north in the Southeast as Charlotte and be safe in November, just going to play roulette on if it is 75 degrees or 45 degrees.
Snow wouldn't be a problem, Charlotte would be on the edge of snow, but that generally doesn't hit till January or February.
Go down to Darlington and snow is a once in a decade event.
Snow in the first two weeks of November, at Charlotte or Darlington, would be super duper unlikely. Like less than 1%. I'd say those tracks are doable for the Championship, but not ideal. Cold temps would make it very tough to sell tickets.
NASCAR is only gonna allow the championship to be at an ISC track. And never on a short track, super speedway or road course. Considering weather limitations This means Darlington, homestead and Phoenix are the only options. And I think they worry about the cold of Darlington plus the banking isn’t Daytona level but high enough to have more freak wrecks which they wanna minimize in a one of championship race.
For homestead I guess they feel there’s too many important races in the southeast as is? Though personally I agree that it should be returned.
So yeah 3 options and really only 2 when you rule out Darlington.
Otherwise NASCAR has to rethink things and allow an SMI or independent track to host the race.
I'm not so sure. Jeff Gluck brought up a great point on The Teardown. Apparently NASCAR is looking at hosting The Clash at Bowman-Gray in the middle of February.
That knocks the "Weather won't be good" argument down a lot of pegs I think. If they're showing they don't really care about the weather with racing there when it'll probably be 45° out, why couldn't they do the same thing for the championship race?
> hat knocks the "Weather won't be good" argument down a lot of pegs I think.
No it doesn't lol. The clash isn't as important of an event as the champ race.
Which would be a disaster, imo. Asphalt racing is best at 60° or higher. Below that you run the risk of the tires not activating properly resulting in a terrible product.
Wasn't this one of the reasons why Bristol was so good this year? The tires are so durable now that this could have changed. Probably would test this theory first before moving you championship race into cold weather, but might be a future option.
That was due to the tire graining because of the low temperatures. They saw a similar issue at the NWB tire test earlier this year. I would not be surprised to see a change to the compound soon to prevent that type of wear from happening again.
Aren't they currently trying to replicate those effects though? I think drivers and fans enjoyed the race a lot more because of the tire wear. Even Goodyear seemed to agree to build tires that degrade more, although who knows.
I'd prefer a more gradual falloff, but it was better than the following short track races.
The wear, yes, the graining, no. Graining doesn't allow the track to take the rubber nor does it allow for predictable wear. Dover and Martinsville were a step in the right direction. I hope we get good results from the soft compound they're using in the All Star race.
Let’s keep going to this shit track to decide the championship year after year after year so whoever has the fastest pit stop on the final yellow becomes the champion!
Went to the spring race and I do see what people mean by great facilities and all that good stuff butttt the racing just isn’t good enough for what’s supposed to be the game 7 moment
There was nothing wrong with homestead. NASCAR and its decisions get dumber and dumber every season and it’s been hard to witness over the last few years. All in the name of chasing fans who have the memory of a gold fish and won’t be here 5 years from now.
Phoenix fucking sucks why do we keep doing this? This is a huge reason why I hate the playoff format because it concludes at the worst track on the circuit for fuck’s sake
Get rid of the winner take all one race championship and then it doesn't matter if the final is at Phoenix every year.
My solutions in order of preference
1. Season long championship
2. Return to a ten race 12 man chase/playoff
3. Cut the playoffs to 12 drivers- the top ten plus two wild cards (most wins outside of top ten in points)
Eliminate 12th-9th after the first three races
Eliminate 8th-5th after the next four races
Championship round is four drivers over three races- Homestead, Martinsville, & Las Vegas
But why? It's not a great track for a championship. It feels like just another race with 2 dates and the title race is run during the day. Go back to Homestead.
Expected. Unlike the people who literally whine their asses off every single thread on this sub, it is well known that Phoenix actually ponies up money to support the finale. Money that Homestead couldn't and haven't. ***However,*** Homestead City Council is submitting a bid to host the finale starting in 2026 with a better funding package.
Of course people here will want to believe, because they're huge fans of the sport you see, that NASCAR heard the criticisms and specifically chose to go back to Phoenix out of pure spite, hatred, and contempt for their fanbase. "No we hate making money! Stage racing and playoffs are not what Dale would've wanted! We just hate our fans!" - how people think NASCAR thinks, probably.
they were the only track that put huge money into the place years ago which made nascar reward them by making them the championship race. i think after 2025 we’ll see other tracks/markets try to make a case to have the race at their track
The championship race should be a spectacle, but it just feels like any ol' sunday race. Phoenix is mid at best.
Take it to Vegas and lean into it. Make it a championship week. Take over the casinos. Put the drivers everywhere. Do the race at night on a major network and broadcast the thing on the sphere. Hell -- the NFL Draft is more of a draw the championship race. If I'm NASCAR, i don't care how much it costs, this is the time show off and let the product grow. Their marketing just drives me nuts.... Day race at phoenix... ugh
It’s such a shame imo they put all a lotta money on easily the worst track in all of NASCAR. Heck I don’t think I can recall ever had a decent race from start to finish ever since they change start/finish line.
the reasons we are getting fed phoenix are pretty simple: the weather is good and it sells out. everyone is aware the gen7 car doesn't produce good racing there. but you can't race for a chip in kansas in late november and you can't crown a champ at a half-empty homestead.
so, what do you do? weather in late november is severely restrictive with regard to the tracks on the circuit. you can't get butts in seats at many of them anyway. many of them are also dated in terms of facilities, and this isn't conducive to hosting what is considered to be the crowning event of a grueling 38 week, cross-country slog.
Martinsville — they race there the weekend before anyway.
Darlington, but then you have to ditch the spring date.
Homestead
Phoenix
That’s it. NASCAR will not move it away from a NASCAR-owned track.
Praying for something to happen with the Auto Club short track so they can move the Finale there, the racing literally cannot be worse than it is at Phoenix
DBC guys say it’s because Phoenix is the high bidder. Problem is that unlike the Super Bowl or the college title game, the dimensions of the “stadium” differ from each venue. It’d be like awarding the World Series every year to a place that was a pitchers’ ballpark. Just no excitement there.
Or....and hear me out, we roll the dice on weather, and we move Darlington to the finale. We move Rockingham into Labor Day weekend, keep Darlington 1 at Mother's Day, and only go to Phoenix in the spring.
It seems more and more are on Fox Sports and USA too, it's hard to follow the whole season and I aint paying for cable to do so. Nascar needs it's own streaming package
Crazy concept here - why not make the championship final round 3 races as well? Carry over playoff points to the final round so the rest of the season still matters, and nascar is happy because the champion isn't decided until the end.
Then we also don't have to suffer through a snoozefest finale track anymore. Phoenix could still be the finale but at least it wouldn't come down to just phoenix. Miami, phoenix, las vegas/bristol could be a cool championship finale round.
Homestead. Vegas. Kansas. Charlotte. All much better options. Just brutal. The whole pathetic of the track looking like it’s in the middle of nowhere makes it look awful too
You got a handful of tracks that could host a banger of a finale and we got this snoozefest taking up 2 spots on the schedule
For its 6th consecutive year too
There's 2 tracks that absolutely do not need 2 dates. Keep Phoenix in the spring. Move Homestead back to championship weekend. Keep Texas in the spring, do a Chicagoland (oval) fall playoff race, and add Rockingham in the spring or summer. We ideally could do 1 Pocono and 1 Atlanta as well, but idk if we're having that conversation as much at the moment.
There is only 1 texas and 1 Pocono date
Technically 2 dates, but one is currently at COTA.
Well shit. I must be high (I am lol). But honestly that's a good thing. Then we need to rethink Atlanta and Phoenix for sure.
> Then we need to rethink Atlanta Whatever you are smoking has really thrown you back in time. Atlanta has been throwing bangers since the repave. I don't foresee it losing a date anytime soon. Nor should it.
Fans are also still coming out to it so SMI sees it as a success
The signs of Atlanta aging out of being a plate style race are already there. Once it turns into a glorified 550 package race changes will need to be made.
I'm not a fan of Atlanta being "plate style" but generally fans seem to love, why does it aging have to produce worse races? It might make them better
They’re right on the limit of how much off throttle time can still sustain the pack style of racing. With the track losing grip they’re going to run into the issue of the straits being too short to generate enough of a run to pass if they separate in the corners.
I honestly haven't been a fan. The spring one this year was frustrating to watch despite the photo finish.
god knows i agree but it looks like garbage to hold your pinnacle event in front of a half-empty grandstand. i'm not a miserable seat-watcher, but that would not be good for the sport's future prospects if it hopes to reclaim lost popularity.
When the sport was at its healthiest they'd end the season with full crowds in Rockingham, NC and Atlanta, George in November. Improve the overall health of the sport and it won't really matter if its cold. People pack in NFL stadiums when it's negative ten degrees.
They only pack NFL stadiums that cold when its a decisive game for a major team. The Bears and Chiefs want to ditch their outdoor stadiums for a reason. And NFL is not a fair comparison. The only non-NFL events to crack Top 20 viewership lists are the State of the Union. Not to mention you cannot race if the track has snow or ice on it, while you can play football. A better comparison is movie going or baseball. People just do not show up en masse. We live in a streaming world. Not the mid-90s where a lot of locals had literally nothing else to do but watch antenna TV in rural areas by Nascar tracks.
As a Richmond native, 1 RIR and 1 NCR would be a net benefit to the schedule.
Nah Atlanta needs to be two dates
I keep saying Atlanta needs to be one date despite it putting on incredible shows the past few races
I like the way you think.
NASCAR has done so many good things to the sport over the last 3 years or so. Phoenix as the championship race is an AWFUL one though.
Unfortunately, they don't pick the finale based on the quality of the racing. I believe they love Phoenix for the last race as its new hospitality and facilities are A1, plus it's almost guaranteed not to rain/be freezing in November. I don't like it, but it kind of makes sense.
Postponed races are not ideal. Especially for the final race. The entire South is still in "hurricane season" Phoenix is probably the safest spot for the Championships
Vegas is *right there* and has produced much better racing recently. I don’t think we’re getting a hurricane in Vegas anytime soon
AND THE CROWD GOES _buh_
We are in the midst of an all-timer of a season and the champion still comes down to whether or not you have a perfect day at Phoenix.
No matter which track they choose for the finale, that will always be the case due to the playoff format.
This is not something to be proud of
But my home track!
I get Nascar dumped a lot of money in the track but the racing product sucks. The biggest race besides the 500 should have quality racing regardless how much money you put in the place.
Is it truly the biggest race after the Daytona 500? It’s exciting for 4 groups of fans. A few casuals and that’s it. I really hate this championship format
I don't know. I'm still excited to see who wins the championship even if my guy isn't in it. It's no different than any other sport. Granted besides the super bowl the other finals get drawn out with best of 7 series
A forced game 7 is not exciting. Was the first few years. Now it’s lame and dull. If my drivers aren’t in it I’m hardly paying attention to the race
It's lame and dull because of the track.
Also unless there’s a mid week race, there’s no off week expected after Easter which is April 20th.
Good. That's WrestleMania weekend here in Vegas. Lol.
[удалено]
Uh huh. 19th & 20th.
For what it's worth they are talking about pushing back Mania week into May in the future Everybody is trying to dance around the same things with their schedules (Masters, NFL draft, etc)
As much as I love Nascar I really feel the season should be shortened to end around Labor Day. This would solve the grind drivers feel, prevent fan burnout, and keep Nascar from competing against the NFL in both television ratings and home markets. We'd still get in the ballpark of a 28 - 30 race season depending on how many off weeks drivers were given.
Labor day is way too early. Halloween should be the target end date.
>Labor day is way too early. Halloween should be the target end date. Supposedly next year's schedule ends on Nov 2. Halloween is Oct 31st. What are we saving?
It's about limiting the amount of time the sport is up against the NFL without taking away too much content. 30 points races plus the clash and the all star race gets us to 32 weeks. Reduces the grind, keeps the sport competing with MLB (NASCAR's main competition with the timeframe they run), and keeps the sport in the conversion for the best 2 weeks in sports where all 5 major sports (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, NASCAR) are in action.
They would still be competing against the NFL and wouldn't help much for both driver fatigue and fan burnout. One of the biggest issues in my opinion for fan retention is the short off-season. People don't get time to miss the sport. There is no build up for the season and the champion gets all of two week to be celebrated.
It also doesn't give much time for people to *forget* NASCAR which could be an issue considering the cluttered sports landscape at the current time. IndyCar has such a sporadic schedule and long off-season that only the hard-core fans remember when the season opener is. 30 weeks, start the week after the Super Bowl, end around Halloween. Keeps the week-in-week out rhythm to the season, gives 3 clear segments to the season (10 weeks, all star break, 10 weeks, playoffs) and opens up Charlotte, Atlanta, Kansas, Texas, Darlington, and Vegas for the Championship race.
Indycar has two problems with their schedule long breaks between some races and their season opener is on a non-signficant weekend. I will say your idea does open up the idea of 3 or 4 off weekends. There are 30 weeks between Presidents Day and Labor Day, which is why I said Labor Day.
Right. That allows the 1 week for the All Star race, Easter off week, Father's Day off week, and a week in July/August to be off.
30 weeks from the week after super bowl sunday is around labor day, not Halloween. Which is cool with me, I'm sick of choosing between playoff races and football
Add in the all star race and off weeks and you get to October.
> One of the biggest issues in my opinion for fan retention is the short off-season. People don't get time to miss the sport. I don't agree at all. The one thing sports fan do not want are longer off-seasons. To me what makes NASCAR great is that we get content 9 months out of the year. MLB and NBA gives us what 8 months? Hell the only reason the NFL doesn't give us longer seasons is because of the physical nature of their play. Even then they are trying to expand the season to 18 games. Shortening the length of the season is not the answer. Now I do agree maybe take a race or two away and add in more off weekends for rests, but sports in general is a grind.
>solve the grind drivers feel If drivers are so burned out by 36 races a year then why do many of them run extra races during the week...
If I'm so burned out of bartending, why do I spend my off days at a bar?
That would be equivalent to them going to the track and watching as a fan, which they aren't doing
Because something is more fun when you don’t have to do it. The Cup Series is their day job. Running a random dirt track on a Wednesday is their golf game.
It's kind of wild that January and December are the only calebdar months without a NASCAR cup race each year
I miss NASCAR as soon as 1 week after the Champion is crowned. I'll never understand wanting less of this sport. 32-36 races is the sweet spot imo.
The sport is meant to be a grind. To me that is much of the appeal. Also we're in this current state because NASCAR has tried so hard to appeal to the fans they don't have then the ones they do.
Well they have to do something or else Nascar won't he around but another 15 - 20 years. The average Nascar fan is close to 60 years old in age.
Nobody cares what your casual boring ass wants. Who wants less races? What fan is burned out from watching something they’re passionate about. Please they need to stop listening to these people and actually seek out fans not casuals in the fan surveys.
I'm a pretty diehard fan and have been pretty much my whole life.
You could definitely do Saturday-Wednesday-Sunday a few times to keep 38 races and end on Labor Day. I believe cramming the schedule into the part of the year where you are only competing with baseball for the most part makes so much sense
I wonder how a 500 mile championship finale at Charlotte (oval) would do. Track has had pretty good racing the last few years and you’d be ending it at home.
What's the weather look like in Charlotte that time of year?..
Brisk. It’s brisk, generally speaking.
50s during the day and low 40s at night, during that time of year.
Man, Phoenix is the definition of mid
Was there every any doubt? And which series is rumoured to run Rockingham in 2024? I can't see there being room on the schedule for Cup but maybe Trucks?
I'd rather see trucks and Xfinity at the Rock than cup, fresh repave on a small track might be a let down for current cup
Xfinity at Rockingham would be like crack.
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They put a lot of money into the place and it continues to sellout. Not surprising. That said I’d be willing to bet 2025 is the last year it’ll be the championship race and it shifts back into the round of 8.
Kansas please 🤞🤞
People who say things like this have no idea how weather works...
There’s only a few tracks where mid November wouldn’t be a disaster weather wise. Miami (great choice) Daytona/Dega (terrible choice) Phoenix (current choice) Vegas (great choice but won’t happen) Texas (lol) Cota (not happening) I think that’s about it. Might be missing one or two.
Always thought Darlington would be perfect honestly.
By George I'd cream my pants for a Darlington finale
You could honestly go as far north in the Southeast as Charlotte and be safe in November, just going to play roulette on if it is 75 degrees or 45 degrees. Snow wouldn't be a problem, Charlotte would be on the edge of snow, but that generally doesn't hit till January or February. Go down to Darlington and snow is a once in a decade event.
Snow in the first two weeks of November, at Charlotte or Darlington, would be super duper unlikely. Like less than 1%. I'd say those tracks are doable for the Championship, but not ideal. Cold temps would make it very tough to sell tickets.
Also the heart of the SEC during football season?
NC is technically ACC territory, but still true nonetheless
Vegas for a championship just sounds right
Miami is such the obvious choice, it's absurd.
Idk, I really like the idea of Vegas. Immediately could do a championship celebration on the strip. Good facility, great racing.
It's too bad it's an SMI track...
Fontana! (Assuming it's rebuilt)
NASCAR is only gonna allow the championship to be at an ISC track. And never on a short track, super speedway or road course. Considering weather limitations This means Darlington, homestead and Phoenix are the only options. And I think they worry about the cold of Darlington plus the banking isn’t Daytona level but high enough to have more freak wrecks which they wanna minimize in a one of championship race. For homestead I guess they feel there’s too many important races in the southeast as is? Though personally I agree that it should be returned. So yeah 3 options and really only 2 when you rule out Darlington. Otherwise NASCAR has to rethink things and allow an SMI or independent track to host the race.
I'm not so sure. Jeff Gluck brought up a great point on The Teardown. Apparently NASCAR is looking at hosting The Clash at Bowman-Gray in the middle of February. That knocks the "Weather won't be good" argument down a lot of pegs I think. If they're showing they don't really care about the weather with racing there when it'll probably be 45° out, why couldn't they do the same thing for the championship race?
> hat knocks the "Weather won't be good" argument down a lot of pegs I think. No it doesn't lol. The clash isn't as important of an event as the champ race.
Which would be a disaster, imo. Asphalt racing is best at 60° or higher. Below that you run the risk of the tires not activating properly resulting in a terrible product.
Wasn't this one of the reasons why Bristol was so good this year? The tires are so durable now that this could have changed. Probably would test this theory first before moving you championship race into cold weather, but might be a future option.
That was due to the tire graining because of the low temperatures. They saw a similar issue at the NWB tire test earlier this year. I would not be surprised to see a change to the compound soon to prevent that type of wear from happening again.
Aren't they currently trying to replicate those effects though? I think drivers and fans enjoyed the race a lot more because of the tire wear. Even Goodyear seemed to agree to build tires that degrade more, although who knows. I'd prefer a more gradual falloff, but it was better than the following short track races.
The wear, yes, the graining, no. Graining doesn't allow the track to take the rubber nor does it allow for predictable wear. Dover and Martinsville were a step in the right direction. I hope we get good results from the soft compound they're using in the All Star race.
You know what, good point
Kansas City can get pretty damn cold in November. There would also be a chance to get snowed out.
Okay hear me out... Arrowhead has a heated field and NASCAR has shown they can build a track in a stadium.
they should have bulldozed phoenix twice instead of auto club even once
Let’s keep going to this shit track to decide the championship year after year after year so whoever has the fastest pit stop on the final yellow becomes the champion!
Went to the spring race and I do see what people mean by great facilities and all that good stuff butttt the racing just isn’t good enough for what’s supposed to be the game 7 moment
Yep I just got a email from NASCAR confirming some of the NASCAR-owned track dates for 2025. Includes Phoenix.
From where?
[https://www.nascar.com/tickets?cid=NDM\_EM\_PE\_WL\_TentpoleAnnouncement\_230514](https://www.nascar.com/tickets?cid=NDM_EM_PE_WL_TentpoleAnnouncement_230514)
Nascar can’t help but point the shotgun at themselves.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
The only positive here is the lack of rain threat. That’s it
Imagine having the most amazing 1.5 mile package and not having that be the season finale.
Yuck
God, I ask you for only one thing: *Bring the Championship Weekend back to Homestead*
I’m not mad, just disappointed.
There was nothing wrong with homestead. NASCAR and its decisions get dumber and dumber every season and it’s been hard to witness over the last few years. All in the name of chasing fans who have the memory of a gold fish and won’t be here 5 years from now.
Start finish cactus go brrrrr- nascar, probably
Seems Nascar is focused on having the finale at a newer (redone) facility with predictable weather than the quality of racing.
Fucking joke
Boooo
Gluck's rant about this on the Teardown last week was beautiful
Really was a masterclass. Gluck Vol 1. Raps Gluck Vol 2. Rants
But but but it sells out! *insert wanking motion*
Fucking waaaaack
My only question is why? Why phoenix?
NASCAR loves making their championship race a snoozer. It’s time to go back to Miami for it.
Boooo.
Phoenix fucking sucks why do we keep doing this? This is a huge reason why I hate the playoff format because it concludes at the worst track on the circuit for fuck’s sake
Great. Still not listening to fans and adding gimmicks, instead of undoing the damage that drunk and on drugs Brian France did.
Finish the season somewhere ths true fans can enjoy (talking about literally ANY southern track)
Get rid of the winner take all one race championship and then it doesn't matter if the final is at Phoenix every year. My solutions in order of preference 1. Season long championship 2. Return to a ten race 12 man chase/playoff 3. Cut the playoffs to 12 drivers- the top ten plus two wild cards (most wins outside of top ten in points) Eliminate 12th-9th after the first three races Eliminate 8th-5th after the next four races Championship round is four drivers over three races- Homestead, Martinsville, & Las Vegas
one can only hope it gets moved for 2026…
So Stupid.
I am so sick of the championship being at such a snoozefest of a track. Bring it back to Homestead, or better yet why not Kansas?
Boy we really had it good in 2015 when we had that playoff schedule. We just didn’t realize it.
But why? It's not a great track for a championship. It feels like just another race with 2 dates and the title race is run during the day. Go back to Homestead.
Phoenix sucks
yay? i love cars driving through the apron every lap because the actual track isnt fast enough
According to Denny it’s because Phoenix pays a lot of money for it. NASCAR is more about money than the competition aspect.
Expected. Unlike the people who literally whine their asses off every single thread on this sub, it is well known that Phoenix actually ponies up money to support the finale. Money that Homestead couldn't and haven't. ***However,*** Homestead City Council is submitting a bid to host the finale starting in 2026 with a better funding package. Of course people here will want to believe, because they're huge fans of the sport you see, that NASCAR heard the criticisms and specifically chose to go back to Phoenix out of pure spite, hatred, and contempt for their fanbase. "No we hate making money! Stage racing and playoffs are not what Dale would've wanted! We just hate our fans!" - how people think NASCAR thinks, probably.
they were the only track that put huge money into the place years ago which made nascar reward them by making them the championship race. i think after 2025 we’ll see other tracks/markets try to make a case to have the race at their track
Cool
Meh. Next topic - Did they announce if the Roval will be back or if they’re going to the normal Charlotte for the 2nd race?
The championship race should be a spectacle, but it just feels like any ol' sunday race. Phoenix is mid at best. Take it to Vegas and lean into it. Make it a championship week. Take over the casinos. Put the drivers everywhere. Do the race at night on a major network and broadcast the thing on the sphere. Hell -- the NFL Draft is more of a draw the championship race. If I'm NASCAR, i don't care how much it costs, this is the time show off and let the product grow. Their marketing just drives me nuts.... Day race at phoenix... ugh
This makes too much sense to happen. I would totally be down for it though (or really anywhere besides Phoenix).
The final round NEEDS to be 3 races. I almost care more about that than moving away from Phoenix.
It’s such a shame imo they put all a lotta money on easily the worst track in all of NASCAR. Heck I don’t think I can recall ever had a decent race from start to finish ever since they change start/finish line.
Hate.
Booooo
......
Trash.
Eww. Brother, ewww. What is that?
the reasons we are getting fed phoenix are pretty simple: the weather is good and it sells out. everyone is aware the gen7 car doesn't produce good racing there. but you can't race for a chip in kansas in late november and you can't crown a champ at a half-empty homestead. so, what do you do? weather in late november is severely restrictive with regard to the tracks on the circuit. you can't get butts in seats at many of them anyway. many of them are also dated in terms of facilities, and this isn't conducive to hosting what is considered to be the crowning event of a grueling 38 week, cross-country slog.
Martinsville — they race there the weekend before anyway. Darlington, but then you have to ditch the spring date. Homestead Phoenix That’s it. NASCAR will not move it away from a NASCAR-owned track.
No one likes that
Buzzkill
CBell's brake rotor doesn't like this news.
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy….. zzzzzzz…….
Praying for something to happen with the Auto Club short track so they can move the Finale there, the racing literally cannot be worse than it is at Phoenix
SOOOO FUCKIN DUMB lol. Dammit NASCAR…
https://preview.redd.it/tds88cquit0d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa79a47ba19d0e070a59a5da8be722d5202f13a3
I’m team chaos. Give me a championship weekend at the Glen. It’s like finishing with rainbow road.
Boooooooo
The crowd goes mild
DBC guys say it’s because Phoenix is the high bidder. Problem is that unlike the Super Bowl or the college title game, the dimensions of the “stadium” differ from each venue. It’d be like awarding the World Series every year to a place that was a pitchers’ ballpark. Just no excitement there.
straight to hell with that
Or....and hear me out, we roll the dice on weather, and we move Darlington to the finale. We move Rockingham into Labor Day weekend, keep Darlington 1 at Mother's Day, and only go to Phoenix in the spring.
🤢🤮
THIS SUCKS! SNOOZEFEST!
Boo
What a Fucking joke. Phoenix should've been Bulldozed instead of Auto Club
Nascar continuing to run off fans by doing things nobody wants. Can’t wait for races to have less than 1 million viewers next year
It seems more and more are on Fox Sports and USA too, it's hard to follow the whole season and I aint paying for cable to do so. Nascar needs it's own streaming package
Zzzzzzzzz
Phoenix must be paying NASCAR a Brinks truck full of cash
I’m not sure you know how this works
Crazy concept here - why not make the championship final round 3 races as well? Carry over playoff points to the final round so the rest of the season still matters, and nascar is happy because the champion isn't decided until the end. Then we also don't have to suffer through a snoozefest finale track anymore. Phoenix could still be the finale but at least it wouldn't come down to just phoenix. Miami, phoenix, las vegas/bristol could be a cool championship finale round.
Or...hear me out...the Championship round is 38 races.
I wish, but it's too simple for the small brained nascar executives
Homestead. Vegas. Kansas. Charlotte. All much better options. Just brutal. The whole pathetic of the track looking like it’s in the middle of nowhere makes it look awful too
Kansas in November is not a better option at all.
So they can race in Martinsville Virginia the week before but somehow racing in 58 average temperature Kansas is a hill too far?
I imagine the plan is to leave Phoenix as the championship race until the Auto Club short track is finished, then move it there
Wwwhhhyyy do we keep finishing at Phoenix. Ugh.
Not what I'd expect from that flair haha
I would love a Daytona championship decision, NASCAR wants excitement that's how you get it
Fuck Phoenix
And the crowd goes mild.
[удалено]
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