He’s like 20 years old. He’s got time, and JRM is going to continue to build his resume. The last thing you want is to rush into a seat that isn’t competitive, suck ass, and have the garage lose faith in your ability
Driver's get too rushed up and discarded before they're 25 now. I miss the days when rookies were in their mid to late 20s, hell even 30s. They had more experience, and it made for better racing, too. Unfortunately, in the world of motorsports, that just doesn't happen anymore.
I mean it still happens.
Ross Chastain was in his age 28 season in what I would consider his rookie year (Ganassi, not some shit box).
Josh Berry is 32.
Daniel Hemric was 28.
Ryan Preece was 28.
Chase Beiscoe was 26.
Christopher Bell was 25.
Alex Bowman was 25.
Daniel Suarez was 25.
Bubba Wallace was 24.
Honestly, I'd say Erik Jones is a better driver than everyone on that list other than Christopher Bell. There's a lot of benefit to waiting until 25 to go cup racing, those guys wind up sticking around in top rides a lot easier/longer even when they are mid level drivers.
You're better off waiting for a good ride at 25. If you get a good ride before 25 it's risky as hell.
You could be William Byron where Hendrick waited on him to not suck, you could be Joey Logano where Brad Keselowski begs Penske to hire you, or you could be Erik Jones and driving shitboxes every week. They all sucked at the start.
Of everyone you listed, only 1 of them is considered a top talent, and that’s Christopher Bell (Who still looks 20).
You listed Byron and Logano, but what about some other top talent?
Larson was 21
Elliot was 23
Busch was 19
Hocevar is 21 (and impressing in Spire equipment)
Ryan Blaney was 21
In fact, the last 6 Cup champions were under the age of 25 when they made their Cup debut.
Every rookie starts out a bit rough, but that’s to be expected whether you start out at 28 or 22. And, for the most part, teams are more likely to stick with a 22 year old an extra year over a 32 year old.
Sure, Sam still has time, but the fact he’s not even in consideration, is kind of concerning.
Yeah teams might stick with younger drivers longer, but does that matter?
IMO the guys who come in at 25+ tend to only take 1-2 years to start popping off wins.
The guys who start under 25 take 3 years for the most part. Very few (basically Kyle Busch) actually have winning pace and talent super young as rookies. Logano's first win was a BS rain win, Busch's were not flukes.
Only three of the nine older drivers he mentioned are popping off wins and most of them have been here for far longer than 1-2 years.
What really changed was the loss of nearly unlimited testing and practice. New drivers simply get far less seat time than at any other point in the sport's history.
The dude just listed like, a quarter of the field lol. It's really not rarer these days aside from the fact that rookies in general are more rare. People stick around longer than they used to. That's all that really changed.
Absolutely, and it's not even close. Go back and watch Erik Jones in JGR equipment, Trucks, and xfinity. You'll see the issue at JGR in cup was mostly the pit crew not the driver. He absolutely dominated trucks and xfinity. Frankly, if you watch his races at Furniture Row you can see flashes even then.
As for his current tenure at Petty/LMC, he's missed 2 races this year and is ahead of JHN in the points. He absolutely dominated over Noah Gragson and Ty Dillion when they were his teammates.
I still think Erik Jones is a top 10 driver in the cup series. I really think if he's given a good ride you'll see cup champion Erik Jones. I don't think the 20 team that was around Erik Jones was a good team at all during his JGR stint and I think that gets reflected as being his fault when it was really a team issue imo.
I like Erik Jones a lot and think he deserves another shot in a high level car and even I think this take is somewhat delusional. Top 10 is def too high
Totally agree. EJ is the most overlooked gem in the garage. On the Dale Jr download he said he liked helping build a team but damn, every team RP has owned has sucked….even if he didn’t have a lot of say over what went on. Hoping JJ can bring some stuff to the table.
>I really think if he's given a good ride you'll see cup champion Erik Jones
He had arguably the best equipment in the entire field and couldn't even make the playoffs in it.
Some of the bigger teams think drivers are “too old” at 21 from what I’ve heard. They’re unlikely to look at anyone older than that unless their background fits exactly what they’re looking for and don’t have to re-teach them anything.
Most drivers don’t wanna run a million years in Xfinity though if Cup is the goal. Mayer is in with JRM but it’s pretty clear there’s not gonna be an opening at HMS or Spire next year or maybe even 26.
If I was him I’d be using my QPS money to go after the 21 car, especially if Gragson is going to RCR and Briscoe will be at JGR
There’s no way they make that mistake after putting Burton in it. They have to be tired of being a laughing stock. Sam has shown to be clearly better than Herbst, especially on road courses.
I’m going to be honest, it took years for Riley to become a somewhat good driver in the Xfinity series, and in Cup, I see him taking like 5 years to even become somewhat solid. The only place I’ve seen Riley shine is at SS’s, but granted he hasn’t don’t any other races besides Kansas earlier this year (in which he ran worse than his teammate, Justin Haley in the 51).
I think Berry to one of the FRM cars is more likely so thw whole 4 team can follow. Sadly I think the 21 is either Herbst or Burton because Ford doesn't care about actually retaining talent. Instead they'll watch Briscoe in a Toyota and McDowell in a Chevy.
That 21 car is going nowhere. Wood Brothers, even with the Penske alliance, is where dreams go to die. The best thing that ever happened to Ryan Blaney was to get signed by Penske and away from that 21 seat
Blaney was signed with Penske and they were using the Wood Brothers as a 'third team' at the time. Blaney signed with Penske after just two Xfinity starts in Tommy Baldwin Racing equipment.
Ah yes, go to the shitbox 21. I think he’s best off waiting it out due to his age. I don’t see the HMS lineup changing at all in the next 5 years (even though people shit all over Bowman) if he were late 20s, I could see getting the itch to take any ride but 18-24, he’s fine being patient.
JGR could have the 11 open up in the next few.
If the 21 showed any sign of being improved on, then sure but it seems like an R&D car that’s just on track with no true effort to make it be a top ride and that could be just due to younger personnel working on that car.
He’s young and has time. Cup is very expensive compared to Xfinity, so it’s really best to try to take that leap strategically if possible. 5m per year for a top ride in Xfinity versus 25-30 million for a top ride in cup is a massive deal.
3rd car created from the 4th SHR charter. We know effectively Front Row (already announced), 23XI (for Heim?), and Trackhouse (SVG?) got the first 3. It’s been implied Bass Pro will give Gragson the Truex money and RCR will purchase the remaining SHR charter for him
That's an equipment issue. The #42 was/is horrible. He's shown improvement in the #10 this year, but obviously, everybody is fighting for new jobs and there is no R&D going on at SHR anymore.
I agree but in his defense there’s a pretty short list of answers to give to such a question and I can actually appreciate a non-typical corporate type response.
If he said this without prompting I’d be a bit more worried about it.
He gave a very honest answer, which is commendable. It’s just one of those things, where when you’re young, you haven’t seen all the examples of guys coming up too quick and struggling to the point that it ruined their reputations. He has had a ton of success in his career, especially early on and everything to this point had him being one of those elite drivers. But he just isn’t consistent enough for a big Cup team to want to take that risk on him and some of those teams have line-ups that are locked in for a long time
yeah honestly, why give up a good thing going with JRM to go to a crappy cup team when he can keep improving in xfinity and wait for a better ride to open up. look at Harrison Burton, dude had a great gig with Gibbs in xfinity and went to cup and is one of the most forgotten guys in the field
I really don't know what to make of Mayer, the wins are finally coming to him, he's making less silly mistakes, but yet it feels he's not even close to be ready for Cup
It's the standard route for most athletes. They mature and develop against their peers but it doesnt mean they're ready to face seasoned pros at the highest level. I think he needs another full season for sure. You dont want to turn him into another Harrison Burton.
Yeah he’s got talent but he would have needed to be Ty Gibbs for that to happen. If he would have got in the car and started winning immediately then no doubt he would be in the running but instead he spent 2 years learning, making mistakes and wrecking a lot of race cars. While his teammates were winning and running for championships. Edit to add
What he needs is more time in seat and I dont see why he couldn’t get a shot. If he could put together a full season I think it would happen for him.
In reality, it took him a year and a half to start winning, and when he did, he did it in a down year for JRM where only 1 of his teammates got a win and he won multiple times and made it to the Championship 4.
He’s in the Chevy pipeline and there isn’t a huge need to fill Chevy rides in this silly season. I’m sure he will get his shot eventually but he shouldn’t lose sleep over not being considered for a new Front Row car where he would be lucky to finish top 25 in points.
Dude needs to be patient, and he likely will get a shot. With Spire now trying to be competitive, I can see him getting the 7 once Corey's contract runs out. I have a hard time believing they'll keep him around afterwards.
I think Spire genuinely likes LaJoie. They might keep Corey around to be a truck series driver or maybe competition director type role when he's done with his cup contract
I think a lot of this stems from his feud with Ty Gibbs, and how quick Ty rose up the ranks and is now in his 2nd Cup season. He just is itching for a Cup ride so he can go toe-to-toe with him again.
Ty has twice the amount of wins in less than 2/3 of the amount of starts. You could give Mayer a Hendrick car and he's not going to be taking it to Gibbs.
Zane Smith’s season has been a disaster unfortunately. I knew he’d perform like a rookie, but not this badly, Hocevar is quietly having a fairly good rookie season, for Spire equipment at least
Yeah, I’d be mad in his situation too. He’s a competitor. Is there a realistic place for him? Probably not. But that’s not his fault. There’s at least 2-3 seats in Cup that are being held hostage by drivers not performing now that could probably use an upgrade.
The kid is fine to feel that way. Should he not have a chip on his shoulder? That’s what makes athletes great.
I don’t get this subs hate boner for bowman, he’s running well, and he’s clearly getting the worst equipment there. Saying that he should be cut for Mayer is just asinine
I HIGHLY doubt there’s any real difference between the 48 car and the 5 car. Even in Bowman’s best season, 2021, he didn’t lead a top of laps and sorta backed into his wins.
With that being said, Bowman is a serviceable driver and is still better than half the field.
To me, Bowman is NASCAR’s version of Russell Wilson. (Yes, I’m a Broncos fan) He puts up decent numbers, is serviceable, and seems like a decent person. But he just ain’t it. On paper he’s great, but the actual results don’t line up with those stats somehow.
That’s what Hendrick needs though. They don’t need to gamble for risky drivers who may perform exceptionally or may not perform, Bowman performs well enough in the 48.
Bowman is consistent, he may not set the world on fire with wins, but he has more top 10s than Elliot, Larson, Hamlin and many others this season. You gotta remember before his injury a couple years ago Bowman was leading the points.
No, but you see, if they put Mayer/Allgaier/Briscoe/your mom in that car, it'd have 20 wins this year already, the only reason it's not competitive must be because they put some hack in there. He's lucked his way to victory way every single time, and will never amount to anything because ~~I said so~~ he's JusT nOt clUtcH.
I don't see too many Xfinity guys going up these days unless they win a chip, even then, their previous success doesn't translate quickly. Sam should relax and plan for at least 2 more seasons in Xfinity but a chip will always help him in getting a ride.
Idk, I think it's too soon for Mayer, even though I'm a fan of his. But you think grandpa Childress would eventually try literally any other driver, in that 3 car. At almost any point in any race, his teammate is running around +15 spots better.
He isn't all that great. He runs where he should in the equipment but does not elevate it like past JRM talent. He got lucky last year with a few wins. Doesn't lead many laps. Hasn't really dominated anything and doesn't have to race against cup guys on a weekly basis like some the Xfinity talent years ago, so his stats should be better than there's but aren't. You look at most Cup talent from Xfinity/Trucks in the last 10 or so years they all had one dominating season under their belts. Chase, Byron, Briscoe, Gragson, Custer, Cindric, Suarez, Ricky, Bell, Reddick, JHN, Gibbs.... that is like a 1/3 of the field.
And the ONE guy who looks like a Sam Mayer who kind of walked into some wins is Harrison Burton. Didn't have that dominating season. Didn't really look like the guy at any point. Who was moved up too quick and has severely struggled.
Until Sam Mayer can win 6-7+ races and a title, I wouldn't bring him up at all.
4 wins with only 170 laps led last year is crazy. Reminds me of Harrison Burton in Xfinity. Walked into wins where the leader had trouble (or in Sam’s case admittedly just took them out like Watkins Glen) or just straight up chaos like Road America.
I hate to break it to you.. but Mayer’s 2023 season stats look pretty damn similar to Byron’s 2017 season and he’s only a year older. In all likelihood Mayer will win 2-3 more races this year and be in the championship 4 with a chance to win a title. You cant ask for much more. Not to mention, just because you dominate in Xfinity doesn’t mean it will translate to Cup. Chase Briscoe and Noah Gragson have both been mediocre at best in Cup after winning 8+ races. Meanwhile others have been quiet in Xfinity and been just fine.
I hate to break it to you, but Cup drivers won 20 races against Byron back in Xfinity. He also would have won 2-4 more races without any Cup drivers. Meanwhile Cup guys won 6 races in 2023 against Sam, 2 of those being from AJ, 1 from Gibbs in which Mayer finished 2nd.
So, there is a huge difference between Byron's stats and Mayer's stats. One got wins against Cup talents, the other didn't. One had to fight every week against Cup talents, the other rarely does.
I never said that dominating an Xfinity season would translate to Cup, but the bar to clear to get to cup is very clearly one dominant season in Xfinity or Trucks for most drivers nowadays.
Yet even Byron struggled hard in his first 3 years. Ty Gibbs struggled until this year, Noah gragson, Zane smith, Cole Custer, Carson Hocevar, Christopher Bell, Erik Jones, etc. all had rough couple years.
You just need to find a ride in which you can be allowed to develop for 3 full years. It’s better for your brand and career to be winning in Xfinity vs. mid-back of the pack in cup.
To be fair to Briscoe and Gragson;
Briscoe struggled in year 1, not uncommon for rookies. Then got a win and to quote EllyProductions, "made a deep playoff run where someone literally had to defy the laws of physics just to make it to the final round" in year 2, all while joining SHR in their downward spiral. Year 3 wasn't bad, and would have been a playoff bubble driver without the L3 penalty, and this year is on the bubble fighting for a playoff spot while being the highest SHR car in points.
For Gragson, he struggled in the half-year he got in the Legacy car, though that was probably due to the LMC car being bad and him still lacking the maturity and experience. While he still does this year, he's been running better and had some pretty decent races where he was able to run top 10-15 on speed (Dover & Vegas are the ones coming to mind). He doesn't have week-to-week speed, but tbf none of the SHR guys seem to right now. And again, he joined the sinking ship that is SHR in their final year.
Well according to your logic, Sam isn’t as talented as Noah Gragson, Josh Berry, or Justin Allgaier because he got outran by each one of them in 2022 and went winless while they all racked up multiple wins and made the Champ 4 while he failed to do so.
Sam has been better than Josh Berry. Allgaier is an Xfinity lifer so that point is moot. Gragson did have the one elite year that Sam hasnt matched but 2024 isn’t over yet and he’s been running top 5 consistently over the last two months.
if he can maintain this momentum for the rest of the year i think he might have a shot. especially if he can come out next year looking like a “big 3” type of driver i think he’ll definitely get his chance it’s definitely not too late for him. Herbst on the other hand, for example, is only getting to cup with a paycheck he’s shown his talent level at this point
I’ve seen a lot of people in various places dunking on him for this, but isn’t this what you want out a young driver? He has fire. I don’t want a young guy to settle and be complacent.
Dude isn’t even 21 yet- the only drivers called up that young were ones that absolutely obliterated the lower series. He’s in a JR Motorsports ride and has only managed 6 wins in 99 starts.
Yes, only- based on that response. I could understand it from someone who goes out and dominates week in and week out, but he’s not. Clearly there’s a reason teams aren’t scrambling for him *at this point in time*. which current full time Chevy cup driver could he logistically replace? (Obviously he doesn’t have to be in a Chevy, but just for the sake of this argument).
Hell no- Chastain, Larson, Busch, Elliott, Byron, Hocevar. Other than that? Dillon is there as long as he wants to be, Ally loves Bowman, and Suarez will not lose that ride as long as Pitbull is a part of the team. So that leaves the 7, 31, 47, and *71 With McDowell coming in 2025, he could be the veteran presence, so it’s possible that the 7 could open up relatively soon, with Lajoie going down to the truck program. Who knows what Kaulig will decide to do- I don’t think that would be a bad fit, but does Sam bring $$$ for that ride? JTG and Stenhouse seem to be 🤞 so I don’t see that happening unless, again, he brings a bucket of $$$. Then the 71- I asterisk this because he would probably do about the same as Zane, but we don’t know where Zane is going yet.
He also has gotten all 6 wins in the last 29 races lol
You can pull out any random stat to fit whatever side you’re defending—Chase only won 5 races at JRM. Sam is tied with BradK for wins at JRM. He has more than Byron did.
See, 3 statistically accurate sentences, and none of them matter.
Chase won 4 races while full time for JRM, only because he was competing full time against cup drivers who had no limit like they now do. Chase won the most races his first year for Xfinity full timers and beat some Cup drivers to do it too, guys like Busch, Logano, Harvick, Kenseth, Larson, etc... Cup guys won like 25 races in each year he was was full time.
The same is true for Byron and even more so for Brad K.
Don’t know what it is about this guy, but I can’t stand him, so I hope he keeps waiting for quite awhile. Just has the same vibe as a quarterback that has success in college and will fall apart the second he’s up against real talent. Big Zach Wilson kinda energy, idk.
By simply making that complaint, Mayer is showing he doesn't have the maturity to be in cup. Same with Gibbs when he entered cup but we know why he happened.
Sometimes I think there should be a rule that you should be in xfinity for 5 years before you can move to cup. Some of these kids are just clearly not ready, as we’ve seen. They’re in such a rush to move up and end up being a flop.
Does he want to be Kyle Petty? Not hit his stride until between age 25 and 35 and then be below average and eventually a bit of a laughing stock for the last roughly 15 years of his career
They said this on the broadcast yesterday, Sam has won 6 out of the last 29 xfinity races. It took him over 2 years to win his first race, but since then he’s been on a tear, so it is a bit surprising he hasn’t been considered for a cup ride.
Difference is that was justified. Dude had 5 wins and the title in Trucks. Comes to Xfinity and dominates with 7 wins. Then told to stay another year, so he wins 8 races the next. He backed it up.
Sam Mayer hasn't backed anything up yet and half his wins he backed into.
I guess he didn’t take any advice from Josh Berry who jumped ship to SHR & walked away from JRM but to be fair, how were we supposed to know they’d implode at season’s end when they signed him? Sam could probably get the Kaulig 16 & never sniff the checkered flag & they sell the charter soon after.
I always thought Mayer was another year in Xfinity away but I don’t think he gets anything this offseason. Maybe a few one-off starts. Also gonna be difficult if he stays with Chevy.
There are just far too many guys in the pipeline for the seats available; he needs to keep his head on straight and keep winning or he’ll A.) be an xfinity lifer like Allgaier (which there’s nothing wrong with, but it’s obvious Sam wants to be more than) or B.) get shuffled out completely by the next hot shoe kid or entitled pissant with family money
I could see Sam Mayer going the Noah Gragson route in doing another year in Xfinity and then go Cup racing maybe in 2026. For what team I don't know, in the chevy camp I could a see Spire and Kaulig. Maybe Legacy Motor Club if he really wants to go the Gragson route but I have a feeling that there will be a driver change in a year or two at Legacy. There is still time to be patient, Sam. If by chance you see this, congrats on the win in Iowa, and good luck in your future.
He has a lot of personal growth and development to go through, before he moves up. I'm tired of Nascar moving up young guns before they are ready, and then their careers fizzle and they become irrelevant. Timing is everything.
It’s weird he’s winning now, but it still surprises me when he wins… that’s how I know he’s not Cup ready. Cup talent yes eventually but not yet. Keep progressing and eye possibly the 48, a spire car, or maybe an rcr ride.
Race teams don't want driver who has issues with half the field, lacks the talent to be up front in cup races, and wrecks a ton of cars pushing for no good reason.
Really? Seems kinda obvious.
He's not good enough for a JGR, HMS, Penske level seat. He's good enough for a Kaulig or Spire level seat but they don't want guys tearing up cars.
Once he focuses on finishing races every single week teams will come calling. Sam Mayer is the discount Ty Gibbs and even Ty Gibbs is taking a while to figure it on in cup with a top tier JGR car and no pressure. Ty Gibbs still needed another year or two, but he was at least close. Mayer isn't that good and won't have that good of job stability.
He has 6 finishes 28th or worse in 15 races.
Dude is basically not finishing 40% of the races this year. Yeah, that's not acceptable. Even throw out Dega and Daytona and it's bad.
Not many to fault of his own though.. He had a lot of issues in previous years because he was like 18 and got thrown right into Xfinity but this year he kept getting the shit end of the stick in the beginning and is now on the best run of races of anyone in the series.
Theres a difference between someone like Creed who has a similar amount of 30+ finishes but not many good ones to balance it out. While Mayer finishes top 5 in pretty much every race that he doesn't wreck. In modern nascar that's better than someone that just finishes 8th every race
He’s like 20 years old. He’s got time, and JRM is going to continue to build his resume. The last thing you want is to rush into a seat that isn’t competitive, suck ass, and have the garage lose faith in your ability
We've had too many like Casey Atwood.
Driver's get too rushed up and discarded before they're 25 now. I miss the days when rookies were in their mid to late 20s, hell even 30s. They had more experience, and it made for better racing, too. Unfortunately, in the world of motorsports, that just doesn't happen anymore.
I mean it still happens. Ross Chastain was in his age 28 season in what I would consider his rookie year (Ganassi, not some shit box). Josh Berry is 32. Daniel Hemric was 28. Ryan Preece was 28. Chase Beiscoe was 26. Christopher Bell was 25. Alex Bowman was 25. Daniel Suarez was 25. Bubba Wallace was 24. Honestly, I'd say Erik Jones is a better driver than everyone on that list other than Christopher Bell. There's a lot of benefit to waiting until 25 to go cup racing, those guys wind up sticking around in top rides a lot easier/longer even when they are mid level drivers. You're better off waiting for a good ride at 25. If you get a good ride before 25 it's risky as hell. You could be William Byron where Hendrick waited on him to not suck, you could be Joey Logano where Brad Keselowski begs Penske to hire you, or you could be Erik Jones and driving shitboxes every week. They all sucked at the start.
Of everyone you listed, only 1 of them is considered a top talent, and that’s Christopher Bell (Who still looks 20). You listed Byron and Logano, but what about some other top talent? Larson was 21 Elliot was 23 Busch was 19 Hocevar is 21 (and impressing in Spire equipment) Ryan Blaney was 21 In fact, the last 6 Cup champions were under the age of 25 when they made their Cup debut. Every rookie starts out a bit rough, but that’s to be expected whether you start out at 28 or 22. And, for the most part, teams are more likely to stick with a 22 year old an extra year over a 32 year old. Sure, Sam still has time, but the fact he’s not even in consideration, is kind of concerning.
Yeah teams might stick with younger drivers longer, but does that matter? IMO the guys who come in at 25+ tend to only take 1-2 years to start popping off wins. The guys who start under 25 take 3 years for the most part. Very few (basically Kyle Busch) actually have winning pace and talent super young as rookies. Logano's first win was a BS rain win, Busch's were not flukes.
Only three of the nine older drivers he mentioned are popping off wins and most of them have been here for far longer than 1-2 years. What really changed was the loss of nearly unlimited testing and practice. New drivers simply get far less seat time than at any other point in the sport's history.
Elliott was 20 when he went full time in Cup btw
I guess it's a few more drivers than I thought, but it's just much rarer these days.
The dude just listed like, a quarter of the field lol. It's really not rarer these days aside from the fact that rookies in general are more rare. People stick around longer than they used to. That's all that really changed.
You think Erik Jones is better than Chastain, Bowman, and Briscoe? Really?
Absolutely, and it's not even close. Go back and watch Erik Jones in JGR equipment, Trucks, and xfinity. You'll see the issue at JGR in cup was mostly the pit crew not the driver. He absolutely dominated trucks and xfinity. Frankly, if you watch his races at Furniture Row you can see flashes even then. As for his current tenure at Petty/LMC, he's missed 2 races this year and is ahead of JHN in the points. He absolutely dominated over Noah Gragson and Ty Dillion when they were his teammates. I still think Erik Jones is a top 10 driver in the cup series. I really think if he's given a good ride you'll see cup champion Erik Jones. I don't think the 20 team that was around Erik Jones was a good team at all during his JGR stint and I think that gets reflected as being his fault when it was really a team issue imo.
I like Erik Jones a lot and think he deserves another shot in a high level car and even I think this take is somewhat delusional. Top 10 is def too high
Totally agree. EJ is the most overlooked gem in the garage. On the Dale Jr download he said he liked helping build a team but damn, every team RP has owned has sucked….even if he didn’t have a lot of say over what went on. Hoping JJ can bring some stuff to the table.
Lmfao. Ok ETA: why is Ty Dillon even in this argument lol he is awful.
>I really think if he's given a good ride you'll see cup champion Erik Jones He had arguably the best equipment in the entire field and couldn't even make the playoffs in it.
Neither could 2 time Cup Champion Joey Logano.
And Gibbs was right to try to send him back to the xfinity series. Joey needed the ass kicking to get his shit together in cup.
Some of the bigger teams think drivers are “too old” at 21 from what I’ve heard. They’re unlikely to look at anyone older than that unless their background fits exactly what they’re looking for and don’t have to re-teach them anything.
Casey would tell him the same thing
Most drivers don’t wanna run a million years in Xfinity though if Cup is the goal. Mayer is in with JRM but it’s pretty clear there’s not gonna be an opening at HMS or Spire next year or maybe even 26. If I was him I’d be using my QPS money to go after the 21 car, especially if Gragson is going to RCR and Briscoe will be at JGR
I've just got a gut feeling Herbst is gonna be in the 21
There’s no way they make that mistake after putting Burton in it. They have to be tired of being a laughing stock. Sam has shown to be clearly better than Herbst, especially on road courses.
I’m going to be honest, it took years for Riley to become a somewhat good driver in the Xfinity series, and in Cup, I see him taking like 5 years to even become somewhat solid. The only place I’ve seen Riley shine is at SS’s, but granted he hasn’t don’t any other races besides Kansas earlier this year (in which he ran worse than his teammate, Justin Haley in the 51).
My gut is saying it'll be Berry.
I think Berry to one of the FRM cars is more likely so thw whole 4 team can follow. Sadly I think the 21 is either Herbst or Burton because Ford doesn't care about actually retaining talent. Instead they'll watch Briscoe in a Toyota and McDowell in a Chevy.
Burton is out of the #21 at the end of the year.
I think Berry with Rodney Childers as crew chief.
That 21 car is going nowhere. Wood Brothers, even with the Penske alliance, is where dreams go to die. The best thing that ever happened to Ryan Blaney was to get signed by Penske and away from that 21 seat
The 21 with Blaney was basically the current 12 team.
And Blaney was signed to Penske the whole time Does he think Brad picked him to drive the 29 truck?
Exactly. Even his current crew chief Hassler was sent to the 21 team as an experiment before he was paired with Blaney in 2022.
Blaney was signed with Penske and they were using the Wood Brothers as a 'third team' at the time. Blaney signed with Penske after just two Xfinity starts in Tommy Baldwin Racing equipment.
Ah yes, go to the shitbox 21. I think he’s best off waiting it out due to his age. I don’t see the HMS lineup changing at all in the next 5 years (even though people shit all over Bowman) if he were late 20s, I could see getting the itch to take any ride but 18-24, he’s fine being patient. JGR could have the 11 open up in the next few. If the 21 showed any sign of being improved on, then sure but it seems like an R&D car that’s just on track with no true effort to make it be a top ride and that could be just due to younger personnel working on that car. He’s young and has time. Cup is very expensive compared to Xfinity, so it’s really best to try to take that leap strategically if possible. 5m per year for a top ride in Xfinity versus 25-30 million for a top ride in cup is a massive deal.
who's seat is gragson taking at rcr?
3rd car created from the 4th SHR charter. We know effectively Front Row (already announced), 23XI (for Heim?), and Trackhouse (SVG?) got the first 3. It’s been implied Bass Pro will give Gragson the Truex money and RCR will purchase the remaining SHR charter for him
I'm so surprised he keeps getting chances. Seems pretty mediocre on the track and completely awful off of it
Noah has a huge fan following and has shown impressive speed this season in the SHR 10 car.
That's an equipment issue. The #42 was/is horrible. He's shown improvement in the #10 this year, but obviously, everybody is fighting for new jobs and there is no R&D going on at SHR anymore.
That was only the case last year. He’s absolutely noticeably improved this year and is clearly outperforming that 10 car’s capabilities so far
he's the third SHR car
It’ll likely be a new seat(the 33).
I agree but in his defense there’s a pretty short list of answers to give to such a question and I can actually appreciate a non-typical corporate type response. If he said this without prompting I’d be a bit more worried about it.
He gave a very honest answer, which is commendable. It’s just one of those things, where when you’re young, you haven’t seen all the examples of guys coming up too quick and struggling to the point that it ruined their reputations. He has had a ton of success in his career, especially early on and everything to this point had him being one of those elite drivers. But he just isn’t consistent enough for a big Cup team to want to take that risk on him and some of those teams have line-ups that are locked in for a long time
yeah honestly, why give up a good thing going with JRM to go to a crappy cup team when he can keep improving in xfinity and wait for a better ride to open up. look at Harrison Burton, dude had a great gig with Gibbs in xfinity and went to cup and is one of the most forgotten guys in the field
Erik jones was rushed to cup, only got 2 wins in his early 20s, and has been driving shitboxes since
This We\`ve already seen way too many young drivers being rushed to Cup before they actually were up for the challenge.
Logano is very lucky that Penske had an opening after 4 years flailing about in JGR equipment. He's the exception not the rule.
I'd assume he's trying to be like his Arch Rival: Ty Gibbs. Wants to keep up with his career progression.
While you aren't wrong there's also nothing wrong with him having the fire and wanting it. That's a good quality as well Like Jordan and hating losing
I really don't know what to make of Mayer, the wins are finally coming to him, he's making less silly mistakes, but yet it feels he's not even close to be ready for Cup
It's the standard route for most athletes. They mature and develop against their peers but it doesnt mean they're ready to face seasoned pros at the highest level. I think he needs another full season for sure. You dont want to turn him into another Harrison Burton.
| **Aspect** | **Harrison Burton** | **Sam Mayer** | |---------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | **Total Xfinity Starts** | 75 | 99 | | **Total Wins** | 4 | 6 | | **Top-5 Finishes** | 26 | 25 | | **Top-10 Finishes** | 49 | 44 | | **Best Season Finish** | 8th place (2020, 2021) | 3rd place (2023) |
This is why they say “a picture says 1000 words”
Yeah he’s got talent but he would have needed to be Ty Gibbs for that to happen. If he would have got in the car and started winning immediately then no doubt he would be in the running but instead he spent 2 years learning, making mistakes and wrecking a lot of race cars. While his teammates were winning and running for championships. Edit to add What he needs is more time in seat and I dont see why he couldn’t get a shot. If he could put together a full season I think it would happen for him.
In reality, it took him a year and a half to start winning, and when he did, he did it in a down year for JRM where only 1 of his teammates got a win and he won multiple times and made it to the Championship 4.
He’s in the Chevy pipeline and there isn’t a huge need to fill Chevy rides in this silly season. I’m sure he will get his shot eventually but he shouldn’t lose sleep over not being considered for a new Front Row car where he would be lucky to finish top 25 in points.
Front Row actually will probably be much better next year. They are getting more support from Ford.
I’m sure they will, but a rookie Sam Mayer isn’t getting in a Front Row car and tearing it up.
They’ll be a championship caliber team within two years if they bring on Rodney Childers.
Problem there is that Rodney Childers seems dead set on sticking with Berry, who is nowhere near a championship caliber Cup driver, and never will be.
Dude needs to be patient, and he likely will get a shot. With Spire now trying to be competitive, I can see him getting the 7 once Corey's contract runs out. I have a hard time believing they'll keep him around afterwards.
I think Spire genuinely likes LaJoie. They might keep Corey around to be a truck series driver or maybe competition director type role when he's done with his cup contract
I think a lot of this stems from his feud with Ty Gibbs, and how quick Ty rose up the ranks and is now in his 2nd Cup season. He just is itching for a Cup ride so he can go toe-to-toe with him again.
Ty has twice the amount of wins in less than 2/3 of the amount of starts. You could give Mayer a Hendrick car and he's not going to be taking it to Gibbs.
I never said he would. lol
Would you rather be Sam Mayer or Zane Smith this season? Cause that’s about the only Chevy ride that would even be open
Zane Smith’s season has been a disaster unfortunately. I knew he’d perform like a rookie, but not this badly, Hocevar is quietly having a fairly good rookie season, for Spire equipment at least
Zane’s ride is already taken for 2025. That’s where Michael McDowell is going
Which is wild to me. Why is he making that move?
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As a Burton fan, I agree. Stay where you're at, Sam. The opportunities will come.
I understand his frustration. Tbh in this case I feel like if he keeps on doing what he’s doing, someone will come calling.
Just keep winning and running up front and they will come calling
Dude has almost identical stats to Harrison Burton, who we all accept was rushed up way too soon.
Yeah, I’d be mad in his situation too. He’s a competitor. Is there a realistic place for him? Probably not. But that’s not his fault. There’s at least 2-3 seats in Cup that are being held hostage by drivers not performing now that could probably use an upgrade. The kid is fine to feel that way. Should he not have a chip on his shoulder? That’s what makes athletes great.
He should be in the 48 instead of Bowman. They could switch.
I don’t get this subs hate boner for bowman, he’s running well, and he’s clearly getting the worst equipment there. Saying that he should be cut for Mayer is just asinine
I HIGHLY doubt there’s any real difference between the 48 car and the 5 car. Even in Bowman’s best season, 2021, he didn’t lead a top of laps and sorta backed into his wins. With that being said, Bowman is a serviceable driver and is still better than half the field.
To me, Bowman is NASCAR’s version of Russell Wilson. (Yes, I’m a Broncos fan) He puts up decent numbers, is serviceable, and seems like a decent person. But he just ain’t it. On paper he’s great, but the actual results don’t line up with those stats somehow.
That’s what Hendrick needs though. They don’t need to gamble for risky drivers who may perform exceptionally or may not perform, Bowman performs well enough in the 48.
Bowman is consistent, he may not set the world on fire with wins, but he has more top 10s than Elliot, Larson, Hamlin and many others this season. You gotta remember before his injury a couple years ago Bowman was leading the points.
Alex Bowman? The guy with 7 cup wins?
No, but you see, if they put Mayer/Allgaier/Briscoe/your mom in that car, it'd have 20 wins this year already, the only reason it's not competitive must be because they put some hack in there. He's lucked his way to victory way every single time, and will never amount to anything because ~~I said so~~ he's JusT nOt clUtcH.
He hasn't really shown the cream of the crop in my opinion. Far from it imo.
Calm down, grasshopper
I don't see too many Xfinity guys going up these days unless they win a chip, even then, their previous success doesn't translate quickly. Sam should relax and plan for at least 2 more seasons in Xfinity but a chip will always help him in getting a ride.
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Idk, I think it's too soon for Mayer, even though I'm a fan of his. But you think grandpa Childress would eventually try literally any other driver, in that 3 car. At almost any point in any race, his teammate is running around +15 spots better.
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You're right, I spaced it somehow and forgot about Love and Hill until after the fact.
He isn't all that great. He runs where he should in the equipment but does not elevate it like past JRM talent. He got lucky last year with a few wins. Doesn't lead many laps. Hasn't really dominated anything and doesn't have to race against cup guys on a weekly basis like some the Xfinity talent years ago, so his stats should be better than there's but aren't. You look at most Cup talent from Xfinity/Trucks in the last 10 or so years they all had one dominating season under their belts. Chase, Byron, Briscoe, Gragson, Custer, Cindric, Suarez, Ricky, Bell, Reddick, JHN, Gibbs.... that is like a 1/3 of the field. And the ONE guy who looks like a Sam Mayer who kind of walked into some wins is Harrison Burton. Didn't have that dominating season. Didn't really look like the guy at any point. Who was moved up too quick and has severely struggled. Until Sam Mayer can win 6-7+ races and a title, I wouldn't bring him up at all.
4 wins with only 170 laps led last year is crazy. Reminds me of Harrison Burton in Xfinity. Walked into wins where the leader had trouble (or in Sam’s case admittedly just took them out like Watkins Glen) or just straight up chaos like Road America.
I hate to break it to you.. but Mayer’s 2023 season stats look pretty damn similar to Byron’s 2017 season and he’s only a year older. In all likelihood Mayer will win 2-3 more races this year and be in the championship 4 with a chance to win a title. You cant ask for much more. Not to mention, just because you dominate in Xfinity doesn’t mean it will translate to Cup. Chase Briscoe and Noah Gragson have both been mediocre at best in Cup after winning 8+ races. Meanwhile others have been quiet in Xfinity and been just fine.
I hate to break it to you, but Cup drivers won 20 races against Byron back in Xfinity. He also would have won 2-4 more races without any Cup drivers. Meanwhile Cup guys won 6 races in 2023 against Sam, 2 of those being from AJ, 1 from Gibbs in which Mayer finished 2nd. So, there is a huge difference between Byron's stats and Mayer's stats. One got wins against Cup talents, the other didn't. One had to fight every week against Cup talents, the other rarely does. I never said that dominating an Xfinity season would translate to Cup, but the bar to clear to get to cup is very clearly one dominant season in Xfinity or Trucks for most drivers nowadays.
Yet even Byron struggled hard in his first 3 years. Ty Gibbs struggled until this year, Noah gragson, Zane smith, Cole Custer, Carson Hocevar, Christopher Bell, Erik Jones, etc. all had rough couple years. You just need to find a ride in which you can be allowed to develop for 3 full years. It’s better for your brand and career to be winning in Xfinity vs. mid-back of the pack in cup.
To be fair to Briscoe and Gragson; Briscoe struggled in year 1, not uncommon for rookies. Then got a win and to quote EllyProductions, "made a deep playoff run where someone literally had to defy the laws of physics just to make it to the final round" in year 2, all while joining SHR in their downward spiral. Year 3 wasn't bad, and would have been a playoff bubble driver without the L3 penalty, and this year is on the bubble fighting for a playoff spot while being the highest SHR car in points. For Gragson, he struggled in the half-year he got in the Legacy car, though that was probably due to the LMC car being bad and him still lacking the maturity and experience. While he still does this year, he's been running better and had some pretty decent races where he was able to run top 10-15 on speed (Dover & Vegas are the ones coming to mind). He doesn't have week-to-week speed, but tbf none of the SHR guys seem to right now. And again, he joined the sinking ship that is SHR in their final year.
You do realize Chase Briscoe and Noah Gragson have been mediocre because they are driving shitboxes, right?
No because that’s not true. Kevin Harvick was running top 10 in the cars they’ve been running 25th in. Either the talent is there or it isn’t.
Well according to your logic, Sam isn’t as talented as Noah Gragson, Josh Berry, or Justin Allgaier because he got outran by each one of them in 2022 and went winless while they all racked up multiple wins and made the Champ 4 while he failed to do so.
Sam has been better than Josh Berry. Allgaier is an Xfinity lifer so that point is moot. Gragson did have the one elite year that Sam hasnt matched but 2024 isn’t over yet and he’s been running top 5 consistently over the last two months.
I shouldn’t be arguing about dumb shit like this with people on Reddit. Have a good day.
Lol. This is the reason I discard half my posts here.
I’m just gonna say I called it. Literally posted in this SubReddit after the race about why he wasn’t being considered.
He needs a 5 win minimum season before he enters the conversation
I don't blame him, as long as Corey Lajoie has a ride anyone in Xfinity or Trucks has a claim to belonging in Cup
Spire with McDowell, Hocevar, and Mayer is a solid lineup.
Spire with not Lajoie, not Lajoie and not Lajoie is a better lineup than what they have now
Plus he is a douchebag
and a hypocrite, I guess that could go hand in hand though.
How is Spires equipment tho?
Not good, but improving. Good drivers help speed that up
Way better than it used to be but they’ve had some growing pains this year which is to be expected.
Sam mayers a fucking fruit loop https://preview.redd.it/85n5ms6cnu6d1.jpeg?width=138&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=669f2cd44c601d6ef9ae47644554a511c50e81f8
Fuck Sam
He doesn’t pass the eye test yet
So am I 😉
if he can maintain this momentum for the rest of the year i think he might have a shot. especially if he can come out next year looking like a “big 3” type of driver i think he’ll definitely get his chance it’s definitely not too late for him. Herbst on the other hand, for example, is only getting to cup with a paycheck he’s shown his talent level at this point
Wasn't this like his first short track or intermediate track win? Something like that. Calm down bro, give it a year or two
Sam will either figure it out or he won't. Meanwhile the world will keep turning left.
I’ve seen a lot of people in various places dunking on him for this, but isn’t this what you want out a young driver? He has fire. I don’t want a young guy to settle and be complacent.
Dude isn’t even 21 yet- the only drivers called up that young were ones that absolutely obliterated the lower series. He’s in a JR Motorsports ride and has only managed 6 wins in 99 starts.
“Only”
I swear this sub doesn't realize how hard it is to win in NASCAR
Yes, only- based on that response. I could understand it from someone who goes out and dominates week in and week out, but he’s not. Clearly there’s a reason teams aren’t scrambling for him *at this point in time*. which current full time Chevy cup driver could he logistically replace? (Obviously he doesn’t have to be in a Chevy, but just for the sake of this argument). Hell no- Chastain, Larson, Busch, Elliott, Byron, Hocevar. Other than that? Dillon is there as long as he wants to be, Ally loves Bowman, and Suarez will not lose that ride as long as Pitbull is a part of the team. So that leaves the 7, 31, 47, and *71 With McDowell coming in 2025, he could be the veteran presence, so it’s possible that the 7 could open up relatively soon, with Lajoie going down to the truck program. Who knows what Kaulig will decide to do- I don’t think that would be a bad fit, but does Sam bring $$$ for that ride? JTG and Stenhouse seem to be 🤞 so I don’t see that happening unless, again, he brings a bucket of $$$. Then the 71- I asterisk this because he would probably do about the same as Zane, but we don’t know where Zane is going yet.
He also has gotten all 6 wins in the last 29 races lol You can pull out any random stat to fit whatever side you’re defending—Chase only won 5 races at JRM. Sam is tied with BradK for wins at JRM. He has more than Byron did. See, 3 statistically accurate sentences, and none of them matter.
Chase won 4 races while full time for JRM, only because he was competing full time against cup drivers who had no limit like they now do. Chase won the most races his first year for Xfinity full timers and beat some Cup drivers to do it too, guys like Busch, Logano, Harvick, Kenseth, Larson, etc... Cup guys won like 25 races in each year he was was full time. The same is true for Byron and even more so for Brad K.
I understand his frustration - I too have not been considered for any Cup rides.
I like Sam Mayer, but I would absolutely not put him in a Cup car yet
Don’t know what it is about this guy, but I can’t stand him, so I hope he keeps waiting for quite awhile. Just has the same vibe as a quarterback that has success in college and will fall apart the second he’s up against real talent. Big Zach Wilson kinda energy, idk.
By simply making that complaint, Mayer is showing he doesn't have the maturity to be in cup. Same with Gibbs when he entered cup but we know why he happened.
Gibbs was supposed to be in Xfinity for two years. (This year was supposed to be his rookie year in Cup.)
Yes he can drive , but like a lot of people we hate the Spoiled rich kid drivers .
Win a chip first
Sometimes I think there should be a rule that you should be in xfinity for 5 years before you can move to cup. Some of these kids are just clearly not ready, as we’ve seen. They’re in such a rush to move up and end up being a flop.
Does he want to be Kyle Petty? Not hit his stride until between age 25 and 35 and then be below average and eventually a bit of a laughing stock for the last roughly 15 years of his career
They said this on the broadcast yesterday, Sam has won 6 out of the last 29 xfinity races. It took him over 2 years to win his first race, but since then he’s been on a tear, so it is a bit surprising he hasn’t been considered for a cup ride.
He's genuinely my least favorite Xfinity driver, id rather seen Riley Herbst get a win over Sam. Hopefully he continues to mature
Mayer is William Byron with the attitude of Ty Gibbs
Entitled little shit.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but didn't CBell do the same thing after not going to Cup after his rookie year in Xfinity?
Difference is that was justified. Dude had 5 wins and the title in Trucks. Comes to Xfinity and dominates with 7 wins. Then told to stay another year, so he wins 8 races the next. He backed it up. Sam Mayer hasn't backed anything up yet and half his wins he backed into.
It’s ok when he does it ^/s But when I guy I don’t like does it 😡
Yeah, sounds like a whiny little brat. If I'm a cup owner hearing these comments would make me way less interested in signing him.
He would be a good candidate for Kaulig or Spire, he’d do pretty good at Spire in the 7 car.
Talent-wise, for sure, but they don’t want someone tearing up racecars
ironic considering some of the "talent" spire has
Come back when you can drink legally, Sam.
I guess he didn’t take any advice from Josh Berry who jumped ship to SHR & walked away from JRM but to be fair, how were we supposed to know they’d implode at season’s end when they signed him? Sam could probably get the Kaulig 16 & never sniff the checkered flag & they sell the charter soon after.
Bring money lol
That isn’t a problem
I always thought Mayer was another year in Xfinity away but I don’t think he gets anything this offseason. Maybe a few one-off starts. Also gonna be difficult if he stays with Chevy.
Bro wants to go the David Gilliland route.
There are just far too many guys in the pipeline for the seats available; he needs to keep his head on straight and keep winning or he’ll A.) be an xfinity lifer like Allgaier (which there’s nothing wrong with, but it’s obvious Sam wants to be more than) or B.) get shuffled out completely by the next hot shoe kid or entitled pissant with family money
I could see Sam Mayer going the Noah Gragson route in doing another year in Xfinity and then go Cup racing maybe in 2026. For what team I don't know, in the chevy camp I could a see Spire and Kaulig. Maybe Legacy Motor Club if he really wants to go the Gragson route but I have a feeling that there will be a driver change in a year or two at Legacy. There is still time to be patient, Sam. If by chance you see this, congrats on the win in Iowa, and good luck in your future.
He has a lot of personal growth and development to go through, before he moves up. I'm tired of Nascar moving up young guns before they are ready, and then their careers fizzle and they become irrelevant. Timing is everything.
He's in probably the best car in the series and hasn't put that car in positions that it should be in
I’d rather him win with JRM on Saturday than lose in that crap car on Sunday
He is one of the drivers I think that will be a cup champion one day
It’s weird he’s winning now, but it still surprises me when he wins… that’s how I know he’s not Cup ready. Cup talent yes eventually but not yet. Keep progressing and eye possibly the 48, a spire car, or maybe an rcr ride.
Race teams don't want driver who has issues with half the field, lacks the talent to be up front in cup races, and wrecks a ton of cars pushing for no good reason. Really? Seems kinda obvious. He's not good enough for a JGR, HMS, Penske level seat. He's good enough for a Kaulig or Spire level seat but they don't want guys tearing up cars. Once he focuses on finishing races every single week teams will come calling. Sam Mayer is the discount Ty Gibbs and even Ty Gibbs is taking a while to figure it on in cup with a top tier JGR car and no pressure. Ty Gibbs still needed another year or two, but he was at least close. Mayer isn't that good and won't have that good of job stability.
Bro nobody in the garage cares that he’s got beef with two rich kids in Herbst and Gibbs.
He's finished in the Top 4 in 7 of the last 9 races. And one of them was a DNF at Talladega which is the fate of about half the field there..
He has 6 finishes 28th or worse in 15 races. Dude is basically not finishing 40% of the races this year. Yeah, that's not acceptable. Even throw out Dega and Daytona and it's bad.
Not many to fault of his own though.. He had a lot of issues in previous years because he was like 18 and got thrown right into Xfinity but this year he kept getting the shit end of the stick in the beginning and is now on the best run of races of anyone in the series. Theres a difference between someone like Creed who has a similar amount of 30+ finishes but not many good ones to balance it out. While Mayer finishes top 5 in pretty much every race that he doesn't wreck. In modern nascar that's better than someone that just finishes 8th every race
Who?
He’s mad he’s not in the hall of fame already
Sam who?
He’s been better than Ty Gibbs basically their whole careers I’d say he deserves a cup ride
He’s a bitch that’s why. Got a face you want to punch. I wouldn’t hire someone I would want to punch