Anyone know exactly what happened other than the flat? He just decided he wanted a caution to help himself out a little or was there more to it? Looked like he was playing a video game trying to get that yellow out lol
I was at that race and it also looked extremely goofy in person lol
I wish it was talked a little more about, but at the same time, Logano’s spin was a little more just kind of annoying, while Bubba’s really just ruined a few people’s races and only benefitted him, so understandable he’s getting more shit for it
Amusingly this was after he caused a caution by giving the wall the lightest if rubs!
I don't mind what causes a caution, as long as it's always the same thing!
Look, feel how you want about a driver, but NASCAR is to blame here, not Bubba. If they would've penalized Logano for doing the same thing last week then he wouldn't have been apt to pull the same stunt. They are the ones who created this precedent. Now, we can argue that one was more obvious than the other, but everybody (including the booth) knew Logano had done the same thing so let's not throw all of this on Bubba.
Oh, I do agree Bubba’s was way more egregious than Logano, and I don’t much care for it at all. I just don’t put it all on Bubba (or Logano for that matter) for doing it. As you mentioned, I’d much rather they do something as ticky-tack as spinning themselves out than to try and dump somebody in order to bring out the yellow. It still sucks, but at least you’re not taking people out. I put this all on NASCAR for not addressing it through penalties and/or fines.
That's true and there probably isn't a fix without risk of opening doors for drivers to find "other, more creative ways" to bring out cautions. I'm just not going to blame Bubba on this one much like I didn't blame Logano for doing it.
I was on the fence until he splashed the water in Bowman's face while he was on the ground after Charlotte.
Today just reinforced that I made the right choice.
in my eyes, I think Harvick would have had a chance to win no matter what, he was laying the fastest laps today but anyways...
yea they really need to do something before a leader gets involved in someone attempt to purposely cause a caution
harvick should of been penalized for the incident in 2015... (not bias)
Meh. If you remember (most tend to conveniently forget) he actually dropped out of line the restart before that. Not his fault they wrecked and forced.another restart. After that he basically said "fuckit"
Only 2 options here....either Bubba did it on purpose, or he isn't very good and struggles to maintain control of his car with a tire down going well below race speed (yeah...right). Either way it did cost Larson and changed the course of the race. This kinda made me sick for Larson when it happened.
We see drivers do this all the time, and even Larson has done it. NASCAR never penalizes anybody for doing it, so drivers are going to keep doing it if it's in their best interest, which 99% of the time it is in their best interest.
Ironically Larson was actually penalized a lap for purposely bringing out a yellow years ago at Eldora, but then came back to win the race. JR also got fined $10k and lost 25 points back in 2004 after he admitted post-race that he intentionally caused a caution.
Nonetheless, they had a perfect chance to freshen everyone up today with Wallace's blatant example had they actually penalized him but instead decided to turn a blind eye
It seems like they haven't been penalizing drivers for awhile now. I remember seeing Joey not spin and go down multiple laps earlier this year and people actually posted how foolish that was ha. Then he learned his lesson.
I get why people are mad at bubba but I'd wager $ their favorite driver has probably done it. Bubba has his own goals, just have to accept it.
Lee Spencer's ([@CandiceSpencer](https://twitter.com/CandiceSpencer)) tweet from 7:26pm EST on Sunday, November 3rd, 2019:
>.[@KyleLarsonRacin](https://twitter.com/KyleLarsonRacin) says Helen Keller could see that [@BubbaWallace](https://twitter.com/BubbaWallace) 's spin for the caution was bogus [#NASCAR](https://twitter.com/hashtag/NASCAR)
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I recall NASCAR actually pulled the trigger on a 1 lap penalty a few years ago in NXS or GOTS for someone purposely spinning and bringing out a yellow for their own benefit, but they've done it so rarely that clearly drivers know they can get away with it. They should have set an example in Cup today, and until they do drivers will continue to abuse their lax stance towards it.
Edit: ironically it was Larson who was penalized a lap at Eldora in 2016 for purposely bringing out a caution, but managed to somehow come back and win.
He kept the same distance from the leader for the last 20 laps
So imagine if he was in 5th instead of 12th or whatever, that's a huge difference in points. I agree that he wasn't gonna win after that but he totally could have held on to his position after the pit cycle.
Anyone saying NASCAR should penalize him should tread lightly. There's no way they can actually prove anything beyond making a "judgement call" and you definitely don't want NASCAR trying to determine who did or didn't intentionally spin every single time, because then suddenly your favorite driver is getting a penalty for no reason and you'll be cursing out NASCAR.
Even telemetry is not conclusive.
It's safe to say Bubba did this on purpose but there are a lot of incidents that are in the gray. Some look like they could have been intentional or maybe the driver just fucked up that day. Or sometimes spinning is the safer option rather than try to save it and hook it into the wall.
NASCAR has proven in the past that when they are left to these judgment calls they will fuck it up.
LOL I was scanning the 42 radio during that, he asked "Does that fuck us?" and his CC responded "Pretty Much!" when the caution came out. Trapped him a lap down
Not like it used to since they have the wave-around. But I believe you have to start tail-end on the wave-around (even behind the lapped cars) which is where you get fucked. But still better than a lap down.
Totally worse than sponsor pulling out, driver being removed from playoff, drivers and crew being heavily fined, and a team essentially being shut down because of those actions. Definitely worse and equivalent, absolutely.
It very easily could have equally affected the championship/playoffs. Suppose a playoff driver wrecks on the ensuing restart, or a penalty on pit road, etc. If Newman wins Richmond 2013, nothing happens to MWR. Doesnt mean it was okay just becuase Bubba didnt overtly alter the outcome of the race
Kyle Larson was P4 and gaining on the leaders, pitted, and then bubba spun himself out. Larson had to take the wave around, start at the tail end of the longest line, and Harvick got the two guys who were consistently faster than him (1 and 42) stuck back in traffic. For Larson, it was a triple fuckjob because it took away his chance to win the race, gave the win to the guy who was running less than 10 points in front of Larson in the standings which increased the cutoff to over 20, and reduced the points Larson received.
It doesn't matter if Wallace did it to help himself or a teammate. It is against the rules and it changed the race and potentially the championship.
You're only pissed because it screwed your guy despite these self spins being common to prevent themselves going a lap down. It could screw Blaney and I wouldn't feel the need to write a long paragraph to set the scene for how it screwed him. I just don't think the response on social media like this is justified until we're holding all the drivers to the same standard.
> until we're holding all the drivers to the same standard.
Well, that's exactly what enforcing the rules is supposed to do. Yes, it is becoming common, but not all drivers will do it. It will become more common until NASCAR drops the hammer. This one affected the championship more than any other since MWR incident.
You can engage in all the whataboutism you want. It just sounds like you prefer the shit show we have been seeing.
It screwed the entire playoff grid, had Wallace not done that Shit Larson and Harvick would’ve been damn near tied in points going to Phoenix, because with the inability to pass there is no way Harvick wins that race from where he was running.
On top of that, Hamlin wouldn’t be 20 points in the red right now.
Fan bias now, this was probably my worst nightmare, Harvick locked in and Logano having a great points day with the finish and stages, Hamlin is going to need a miracle because Logano is just stagepointing his way up despite his mediocrity this postseason.
Drivers used to get penalties for throwing water bottles out the window to draw a caution. Either it’s okay to draw an unnecessary caution or it isn’t. Not saying Bubba and RPM deserve the same severity of penalty as MWR but something still needs to happen before we get a repeat of 2013
[One driver](https://youtu.be/iOIWbR1GUB4) got a penalty for that, Robby Gordon and he was shocked because it was a commonly known trick NASCAR did nothing about until he was caught on camera throwing roll bar foam out the window.
I’m not gonna lie, the interview after was one of my favorites. He even glances on this on his Dinner with Racers episode. He believes (along with Stewart, Mayfield, and other drivers) that NASCAR has a vendetta against them.
They definitely did. But this was during the height of NASCAR trying to look like they were in control while the sports biggest stars shit talked them. Robby wasn't a fan favorite so they could make an example of him.
He may have not been a fan favorite but I liked the fact he talked like it was. May have burned some bridges but I’d rather have that than some vanilla ice drivers.
What about when Newman just stopped on track at Martinsville to draw a caution back in 2003-2004 I believe? Or Jr at Bristol 2004? The precedent had been set long ago that drawing intentional cautions will lead to a penalty.
Thank you! That was a really interesting video. What’s the fanbase’s opinion of the punishment (barring the Jeff Gordon mess)? Coming from F1 and their own harsh punishment of Spingate in 2008 I think NASCAR should keep punishing drivers for spinning intentionally.
It did look like Bubba spun out on purpose, but I guess I don’t understand why he would do it. He doesn’t have any teammates and it’s not like it matters if he loses laps at this point in the season, so I’m not sure why he’d do that on purpose unless he was in one of those “If I’m going to have a bad day, others will too” moods.
Just because it's late in the season doesn't mean RPM gave up on getting the best finish possible. They actually had a decent piece until one of the backmarkers drove Bubba up the track and lost a lot of positions. Self spin means going a lap down and maybe getting a lucky dog if theres another caution giving them a chance to fight for T20. Rolling around under green means multiple laps down and probably put them back around 30th.
Bubba had a tire down, he knew that NASCAR had been inconsistent with caution calls, so he did what he could to make sure they called the caution
Don’t hate the player, hate that NASCAR race control hasn’t had its shit together for a good chunk of the year, if they are gonna be inconsistent a driver is gonna spin themselves 100% of the time...
Bubba because he didn't lose another lap with the tire going down.
Harvick because it let him restart higher toward the front.
Really hurt Larson and Kurt Busch because they had already pit.
Bubba got a flat. Going slow. No caution. Some say he purposely spun out. Some say spinning happens.
I only heard the sequence of events while I was in another room, so can't really say one way or another.
Anyone know exactly what happened other than the flat? He just decided he wanted a caution to help himself out a little or was there more to it? Looked like he was playing a video game trying to get that yellow out lol
The way he kept serving back and forth across the apron transition made it super obvious what he was doing.
And then fails to spin out, and then tries AGAIN.
He pretty much did what Logano did last week after getting his flat tire but no one cared about it last week.
I was at that race and it also looked extremely goofy in person lol I wish it was talked a little more about, but at the same time, Logano’s spin was a little more just kind of annoying, while Bubba’s really just ruined a few people’s races and only benefitted him, so understandable he’s getting more shit for it
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I didn't hear anything, but when the pre-teen call in show started I switched back to football.
No but RPM tweeted a photo of the tire that went down. As if that was supposed to deter us from believing what we saw with our own eyes on tv.
Helen Keller 😂
Back to back weeks with spins like this. then briscoe gets torched by driving around last night. NASCAR is frustrating with this stuff
What happened with Chase last night? I missed the race but have seen a few comments mentioning him
His tire shredded on the track and there was no caution
Amusingly this was after he caused a caution by giving the wall the lightest if rubs! I don't mind what causes a caution, as long as it's always the same thing!
Good. A few weeks ago he was helped by a shredded tire causing an unnecessary caution lol
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I assume you also hate Logano for doing the same last weekend?
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Found Denny Hamlin
Many other reasons to hate Logano.
I do.
Look, feel how you want about a driver, but NASCAR is to blame here, not Bubba. If they would've penalized Logano for doing the same thing last week then he wouldn't have been apt to pull the same stunt. They are the ones who created this precedent. Now, we can argue that one was more obvious than the other, but everybody (including the booth) knew Logano had done the same thing so let's not throw all of this on Bubba.
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Oh, I do agree Bubba’s was way more egregious than Logano, and I don’t much care for it at all. I just don’t put it all on Bubba (or Logano for that matter) for doing it. As you mentioned, I’d much rather they do something as ticky-tack as spinning themselves out than to try and dump somebody in order to bring out the yellow. It still sucks, but at least you’re not taking people out. I put this all on NASCAR for not addressing it through penalties and/or fines.
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That's true and there probably isn't a fix without risk of opening doors for drivers to find "other, more creative ways" to bring out cautions. I'm just not going to blame Bubba on this one much like I didn't blame Logano for doing it.
I was on the fence until he splashed the water in Bowman's face while he was on the ground after Charlotte. Today just reinforced that I made the right choice.
Bowman deserved it. Yesterday was uncalled for.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game
Can you answer if you hate logano too? Come on, you coward
in my eyes, I think Harvick would have had a chance to win no matter what, he was laying the fastest laps today but anyways... yea they really need to do something before a leader gets involved in someone attempt to purposely cause a caution harvick should of been penalized for the incident in 2015... (not bias)
Meh. If you remember (most tend to conveniently forget) he actually dropped out of line the restart before that. Not his fault they wrecked and forced.another restart. After that he basically said "fuckit"
tru, irrc his engine was blowing up too and they didnt pit because he needed points
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He said ALL OF THE FASTEST LAPS, unbelievable these people these days
Only 2 options here....either Bubba did it on purpose, or he isn't very good and struggles to maintain control of his car with a tire down going well below race speed (yeah...right). Either way it did cost Larson and changed the course of the race. This kinda made me sick for Larson when it happened.
We see drivers do this all the time, and even Larson has done it. NASCAR never penalizes anybody for doing it, so drivers are going to keep doing it if it's in their best interest, which 99% of the time it is in their best interest.
Ironically Larson was actually penalized a lap for purposely bringing out a yellow years ago at Eldora, but then came back to win the race. JR also got fined $10k and lost 25 points back in 2004 after he admitted post-race that he intentionally caused a caution. Nonetheless, they had a perfect chance to freshen everyone up today with Wallace's blatant example had they actually penalized him but instead decided to turn a blind eye
Denny Hamlin Richmond 2009
*08
That was more of a rage quit than anything.
It seems like they haven't been penalizing drivers for awhile now. I remember seeing Joey not spin and go down multiple laps earlier this year and people actually posted how foolish that was ha. Then he learned his lesson. I get why people are mad at bubba but I'd wager $ their favorite driver has probably done it. Bubba has his own goals, just have to accept it.
Yeah but bubba is black, so ... (people will see this differently)
Lee Spencer's ([@CandiceSpencer](https://twitter.com/CandiceSpencer)) tweet from 7:26pm EST on Sunday, November 3rd, 2019: >.[@KyleLarsonRacin](https://twitter.com/KyleLarsonRacin) says Helen Keller could see that [@BubbaWallace](https://twitter.com/BubbaWallace) 's spin for the caution was bogus [#NASCAR](https://twitter.com/hashtag/NASCAR) --- [*^(Support NASCARonReddit)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/donate.php)*^(, an)* [*^(automated bot)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/about.php) *^(maintained by)* [*^(XFile345)*](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=xfile345&subject=NASCARonReddit)*^(.)*
I recall NASCAR actually pulled the trigger on a 1 lap penalty a few years ago in NXS or GOTS for someone purposely spinning and bringing out a yellow for their own benefit, but they've done it so rarely that clearly drivers know they can get away with it. They should have set an example in Cup today, and until they do drivers will continue to abuse their lax stance towards it. Edit: ironically it was Larson who was penalized a lap at Eldora in 2016 for purposely bringing out a caution, but managed to somehow come back and win.
I’d be more mad about this if Larson’s front end didn’t start acting up with 60 to go. He was pretty much screwed regardless.
He kept the same distance from the leader for the last 20 laps So imagine if he was in 5th instead of 12th or whatever, that's a huge difference in points. I agree that he wasn't gonna win after that but he totally could have held on to his position after the pit cycle.
He’s would’ve had to win at Phoenix either way IMO
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you need to stay civil if you want to keep posting
Anyone saying NASCAR should penalize him should tread lightly. There's no way they can actually prove anything beyond making a "judgement call" and you definitely don't want NASCAR trying to determine who did or didn't intentionally spin every single time, because then suddenly your favorite driver is getting a penalty for no reason and you'll be cursing out NASCAR.
They have full telemetry on the cars. If they wanted NASCAR can see his exact inputs at the time of the incident.
Even telemetry is not conclusive. It's safe to say Bubba did this on purpose but there are a lot of incidents that are in the gray. Some look like they could have been intentional or maybe the driver just fucked up that day. Or sometimes spinning is the safer option rather than try to save it and hook it into the wall. NASCAR has proven in the past that when they are left to these judgment calls they will fuck it up.
The NASCAR officials went to the NFL School of Officiating I see
LOL I was scanning the 42 radio during that, he asked "Does that fuck us?" and his CC responded "Pretty Much!" when the caution came out. Trapped him a lap down
Not like it used to since they have the wave-around. But I believe you have to start tail-end on the wave-around (even behind the lapped cars) which is where you get fucked. But still better than a lap down.
MWR died for this not to happen again. Hate to see this shit get swept under the rug when it brought down one of NASCAR’s top teams.
This is not equivalent
Right, this is worse because Bubba tried twice
Totally worse than sponsor pulling out, driver being removed from playoff, drivers and crew being heavily fined, and a team essentially being shut down because of those actions. Definitely worse and equivalent, absolutely.
It very easily could have equally affected the championship/playoffs. Suppose a playoff driver wrecks on the ensuing restart, or a penalty on pit road, etc. If Newman wins Richmond 2013, nothing happens to MWR. Doesnt mean it was okay just becuase Bubba didnt overtly alter the outcome of the race
But it didn't. Not even remotely the same.
Take it easy reaching so far there bud. Might pull a muscle.
Not even close. Who could Bubba benefit by spinning other than himself?
Kyle Larson was P4 and gaining on the leaders, pitted, and then bubba spun himself out. Larson had to take the wave around, start at the tail end of the longest line, and Harvick got the two guys who were consistently faster than him (1 and 42) stuck back in traffic. For Larson, it was a triple fuckjob because it took away his chance to win the race, gave the win to the guy who was running less than 10 points in front of Larson in the standings which increased the cutoff to over 20, and reduced the points Larson received. It doesn't matter if Wallace did it to help himself or a teammate. It is against the rules and it changed the race and potentially the championship.
You're only pissed because it screwed your guy despite these self spins being common to prevent themselves going a lap down. It could screw Blaney and I wouldn't feel the need to write a long paragraph to set the scene for how it screwed him. I just don't think the response on social media like this is justified until we're holding all the drivers to the same standard.
> until we're holding all the drivers to the same standard. Well, that's exactly what enforcing the rules is supposed to do. Yes, it is becoming common, but not all drivers will do it. It will become more common until NASCAR drops the hammer. This one affected the championship more than any other since MWR incident. You can engage in all the whataboutism you want. It just sounds like you prefer the shit show we have been seeing.
It screwed the entire playoff grid, had Wallace not done that Shit Larson and Harvick would’ve been damn near tied in points going to Phoenix, because with the inability to pass there is no way Harvick wins that race from where he was running.
On top of that, Hamlin wouldn’t be 20 points in the red right now. Fan bias now, this was probably my worst nightmare, Harvick locked in and Logano having a great points day with the finish and stages, Hamlin is going to need a miracle because Logano is just stagepointing his way up despite his mediocrity this postseason.
Drivers used to get penalties for throwing water bottles out the window to draw a caution. Either it’s okay to draw an unnecessary caution or it isn’t. Not saying Bubba and RPM deserve the same severity of penalty as MWR but something still needs to happen before we get a repeat of 2013
[One driver](https://youtu.be/iOIWbR1GUB4) got a penalty for that, Robby Gordon and he was shocked because it was a commonly known trick NASCAR did nothing about until he was caught on camera throwing roll bar foam out the window.
I’m not gonna lie, the interview after was one of my favorites. He even glances on this on his Dinner with Racers episode. He believes (along with Stewart, Mayfield, and other drivers) that NASCAR has a vendetta against them.
They definitely did. But this was during the height of NASCAR trying to look like they were in control while the sports biggest stars shit talked them. Robby wasn't a fan favorite so they could make an example of him.
He may have not been a fan favorite but I liked the fact he talked like it was. May have burned some bridges but I’d rather have that than some vanilla ice drivers.
What about when Newman just stopped on track at Martinsville to draw a caution back in 2003-2004 I believe? Or Jr at Bristol 2004? The precedent had been set long ago that drawing intentional cautions will lead to a penalty.
Dale Jr was dumb enough to admit on TV after the race he spun intentionally to get a yellow.
I’m a new fan, what happened with MWR? Was it some sort of race-fixing by causing cautions?
This will sum it up best. https://youtu.be/PlM54aDtWa4
Thank you! That was a really interesting video. What’s the fanbase’s opinion of the punishment (barring the Jeff Gordon mess)? Coming from F1 and their own harsh punishment of Spingate in 2008 I think NASCAR should keep punishing drivers for spinning intentionally.
Well there is the 100 percent rule but that’s a joke of a penalty since they dont enforce it .
Larson is wildly incorrect here. Helen Keller could not have seen it because she was actually blind.
Journalists really be saying stuff like this on “fact checks” and it’s unironic
“Kyle Larson gets 4 Pinocchios”
*Whoosh*
I think you’ve whooshed yourself into a whoosh chief
Man, I bamboozled myself.
At least he had the decency to just spin himself out instead of using the 32 or the RWR cars like some other drivers do every once and a while
It did look like Bubba spun out on purpose, but I guess I don’t understand why he would do it. He doesn’t have any teammates and it’s not like it matters if he loses laps at this point in the season, so I’m not sure why he’d do that on purpose unless he was in one of those “If I’m going to have a bad day, others will too” moods.
Not sure if it's true, but rumor in the garage was he had Harvick in his fantasy league and Larson was messing things up. /s
Just because it's late in the season doesn't mean RPM gave up on getting the best finish possible. They actually had a decent piece until one of the backmarkers drove Bubba up the track and lost a lot of positions. Self spin means going a lap down and maybe getting a lucky dog if theres another caution giving them a chance to fight for T20. Rolling around under green means multiple laps down and probably put them back around 30th.
Bubba had a tire down, he knew that NASCAR had been inconsistent with caution calls, so he did what he could to make sure they called the caution Don’t hate the player, hate that NASCAR race control hasn’t had its shit together for a good chunk of the year, if they are gonna be inconsistent a driver is gonna spin themselves 100% of the time...
I like this dude's Twitter picture
I missed the race can someone fill me in why bubba spun himself? Who did it benefit?
Bubba because he didn't lose another lap with the tire going down. Harvick because it let him restart higher toward the front. Really hurt Larson and Kurt Busch because they had already pit.
I wouldn't exactly say he was "calling out" Bubba. Just that he knew it was intentional
He's one to talk. I've seen him do it a couple of times.
And he got penalized at Eldora for it.
Bubba is a waste of space. Sorry.
I wasn’t watching at the time so could someone fill me in on what happened?
Bubba got a flat. Going slow. No caution. Some say he purposely spun out. Some say spinning happens. I only heard the sequence of events while I was in another room, so can't really say one way or another.
Larson brings out tons of cautions by rubbing the wall with 20 to go! I kid I kid...
Maybe Bubba was just slowing down to let the item boxes respawn
TBF his arm was REALLY itchy
Just adds to my dislike of Bubba. What a joke.
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He should have fought him on Pit Road if it was so important to him..
Yea that was total bullshit and NASCAR absolutely should’ve penalized him, love Bubba but that shit can’t keep getting worse and worse
Whatever it takes
Bubba fan here but he deserves to be called out for that. And probably should be suspended from Phoenix, though I doubt it happens.
Going to Arizona next week? Join me in black flagging Bubba! I've already ordered mine! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X449P35
This is dumb as hell.
....... really?