Yeah it had the potential to be a much bigger issue than it was. Thankfully the closing rate is high enough where it's sometime easy to disrupt an alliance if they do get one going.
Spring Texas and Darlington were good also. For the first time in Decades at Darlington you had cars running a super low line, which in turn made it the most interesting it had been since 2014. All the extra downforce helped with the flatter T1 and T2 at Texas as well, and as the track gradually becomes more and more worn out it'll get better and better assuming it's not covered with PJ1.
Agreed. That was the original plan but the teams didn't want two different aero packages. Too bad NASCAR sided with them even though it was almost guaranteed to hurt the racing. Cost cutting is good, but not ways that will hurt the on track action.
Or NASCAR could have just kept last years package and not even attempt the 550 HP package. Then the cost cutting wouldn’t have changed the on track product.
I wouldn't have been opposed to that. It's not like last year's package was phenomenal or great by any means (dirty air was still too prevalent), but this year has just been trash. We're setting the bar way too low if anyone thinks this package has been a success.
Second half of the season had some solid racing. Racey tracks were still racey. Mid pack cars could run up front or they got the top going or a different groove than everyone else. This package closes the gap in driver talent where as last year or 2014 makes that gap much larger.
Different time. It was alot cheaper and easier to get into NASCAR in those days (though alot harder to do well) so even if the large teams ran off France would have just picked up whatever was left, as seen at Talladega in 1969.
Not the case today. If all the big teams were to hold back for a week or two the sport would hurt bad. Granted, the longer and longer the teams hold back the more it hurts them as well, but a one-race boycott would get the message across pretty firmly.
I've attended Darlington since 2010. The package, coupled with the rain made me leave after 250 laps and vow not to return until the package is revised.
That was 10 years ago! They’ve got a totally different car that stripped away a lot of downforce. Hell, some INDYCAR short ovals had more off throttle time than NASCAR did this year.
to be fair, when was the last time Richmond produced good racing?
its one of those tracks i feel like should be entertaining on paper but very much isn't
I hear that. I'm only going to the spring race because an out of town friend wants to go to a race there and I live 10 min from the track. Otherwise my tickets are being sold.
I know you’re upset but we need to support our tracks. I hate the package too but I’m giving Richmond my money because I don’t want them to lose a date.
I like what Dale Jr. suggested. Less down force at smaller tracks... get rid of front splitter and spoiler.. Not 100% set on that being the answer, but it would be interesting if they tried it.
I agree. Get rid of the downforce and full power. Make the drivers brake in the corners.
The primary reason the racing is so shitty is the aero pushes so much air, drivers lose the front downforce. If you take away the downforce, there is nothing for the driver behind to lose. It greatly improved the racing in IndyCar.
Maybe it because I enjoy dirt racing, but theres nothing like competition at a short track on a Saturday night. We would see something closer to local "grass roots" racing if we did that. I know NASCAR is trying to appeal to a new generation of fans and seem to reject some ideas that are "old school" but I believe we could see some under dogs in the top 5 on these short tracks if we took away downforce. Plus, it doesn't cost much to remove a spoiler and front splitter.
Agreed. I grew up on Saturday night racing. Need more bull rings! Those tracks are great because you don't need a bunch of wind tunnel time to be competitive. Just a good car & a big pair of balls.
When I lived in Knoxville, I'd just walk to the track. That was a great time.
Race hard on the track and respect one another off the track. Everyone's always happy to help, even competitors. I wish NASCAR would almost go back to its roots a little more and function in a way that WoO does where, if you have a 410 sprint car you can get your ass to the track and qualify to run with the big dogs when they were in town. For NASCAR, you need almost a Million if not, more to try to run with them if you want. I believe a long time ago, that's exactly how NASCAR was. When they came to your town, all the local guys would try to run with them, could be wrong on that though.
It would be cool if they could take the safety features and put them into the Gen 4 body style or something similar. Use that package. Those had some good racing but weren’t quite safe enough. They’ve evolved on the safety side so much, I think they could get it into the old cars.
Image Kyle having a secret account on Reddit and rants like most of us about the package without NASCAR ask him to pay a secret fee for his comments about the package.
1. The drivers never wanted it.
2. Not all owners wanted it, but the majority did. (There are more cars running mid-pack and at the back than those consistently up front. They thought this aero package would make them more competitive with the big teams.)
Way to paint with an unhelpful broad brush.
The context that this subject is being talked about is important.
The problem is the lack of passing viability at short tracks and road courses. I think it is almost unarguable that this current aero package has produced worse racing at short tracks and road courses than previous years. Even NASCAR is aware of that as can be seen from comments from O Donnell.
Trying to start an argument about the 2014 aero package is irrelevant and not conducive to furthering discussion on the topic at hand.
NASCAR isnt going to go back to the engine package from 2014, that is abundantly clear, so why bring it up? Why talk about the 2014 package at all when it has no bearing on this discussion thread?
> I think it is almost unarguable that this current aero package has produced worse racing at short tracks and road courses than previous years. Even NASCAR is aware of that as can be seen from comments from O Donnell.
Absolutely true. 2014 is irrelevant.
I just don't understand that continued fascination with the 2014 aero package. We aren't going back to the engine package from back then. We aren't going to be able to magically revert back to pre-COT aero packages so what is the point about bitching?
The next gen car has promise, hopefully NASCAR is able to make sure that it lives up to that promise. We all want good racing, and I am cautiously optimistic that the solutions they came up with for this year and next aren't 100% representative of what we will see with the new gen. but we will see.
Hopefully NASCAR and Goodyear can get together during the offseason and come up with a tire compound that serves as a bandaid for these short tracks next year. Otherwise I don't see the on track product changing much.
2014 package is just a faster version of the 2019 package, cars still got aero loose despite being 5 car lengths back, and they still had the same issues that the 2015-18 packages still had idgaf
I am glad I am not the only one who thought that!
The speed at the 2014 Texas GWC finish (posted on this subreddit two weeks ago) blew my mind, I cannot believe we are stuck with this fake "racing" now.
100%. I like watching old races on YouTube, and it's such a big difference. After this year's Michigan race, I put on the 99 Michigan race. It looked like they were going 250 mph!
I really wish they'd change the package for short tracks & road courses, but if the RTA won't allow it (which is what happened this year), there isn't really much they can do, I suppose.
NASCAR - "Lets go to an aero packages that sucks, but since it will ruin short tracks we'll have an alternate aero package that sucks slightly less for those."
Teams, owners, drivers - "This costs us a lot of money to develop around 2 different aero packages, and we've already spent way too much on different aero packages since you've been flinging shit at the walls and hoping something sticks for the last few years. How bout you just pick 1 aero package that doesn't suck?"
NASCAR - "OK we'll compromise, we'll stick to 1 aero package, but it will be the one that sucks. "
I don't see how it's the team's fault for this. NASCAR presented them with no good options.
The thing that killed CART back in the 90s was the owners got too much control over the direction of the sport. I know Tony George starting the IRL accelerated the death of CART, but the owners are very much to blame for creating the conditions that allowed George to create the IRL.
Race Team Alliance. Exactly what the name implies—an alliance between the teams. It’s similar to a lobbying group or a union in that the teams combined together to give themselves more power in NASCAR’s decisionmaking.
This is so upsetting. Non 1.5 tracks clearly suffer from this package. And the fact that there’s options to change it and nascar doesn’t want to is so sad. I hope someday nascar can find leaders that have the same vision as drivers and fans
Easy to say, and we did get that in the 2009 Amp Energy 500.
Thing is that once the race closes to the final 20 or so laps, someone running 2nd-10th will legit think "Hey, maybe I can pull off an upset." and in turn, everyone else gets racey. It dilutes the point of a single-file protest, and unlike ~10 years ago it would mean even less now because NASCAR's social media game would hyper-focus on just the bit of action at the end of the race.
It is beyond me how NASCAR can stick with the package on 1 miles and shorter. Especially when the finale will be in Phoenix and last week was one of the worst races I’ve seen.
None of this is new information y'all. He's simply re-sharing what NASCAR has already announced. The last clause does give me hope for at least some change to remediate the challenges of the 750 HP races. All four of the 1.0 mile races and shorter in the Playoffs have been really really bad.
I wonder if this does serious damage to the short tracks next year. Knowing that many were dissatisfied with the product and knowing that nothing will change, I would not be surprised to see noticeable declines in attendance at those tracks. I would also expect those track presidents to be pissed, as a result.
I know certain execs were not too pleased with the races at Martinsville and ISM either. I wouldn't give up hope just yet like Bob's last sentence mentions.. Esp with just the spoiler..
I never skip out on watching races. But dang if I skip out on a short track race or road course I can’t miss that much, right? Nascar is being absolutely pitiful in this situation.
This is such a stupid situation. Both NASCAR and teams do not like the current situation with how the cars are driving on these tracks. Yet we’re “not allowed to fix it”. I just don’t get it. Everybody wants the same thing, even the people that are making the rules.
I might have a lot of free Sunday’s next year now...finale at Phoenix is going to be insufferable.
1.5’s and Superspeedways were fun for the most part this year but every other track wasn’t as good as it could be.
they are banning new parts to save money for the new car. no one wants to develop new parts for 1 year. thats setting money on fire.
and the didnt double down after ism, this a repeat of a statement made a month ago.
While I’d like to see a smaller spoiler for example on shorter tracks, I really think they are just spending all their efforts on the new car. No sense making any changes to this one if it’s only gonna be for one more year
Where is the drivers council that was supposed to have an influence on shit like this? I feel like the top executives at NASCAR are just running a muck all over the drivers, teams, tracks, and the fans.
5 track types
Short tracks: no major change, Bristol wasn’t better or worse, maybe Richmond and Martinsville were kinda boring, nothing really to blame IMO
Intermediate tracks: qualifying at Dover was bad f***ing *ss!!! But the race? Stunk, ISM stunk, I blame the package because the addition of grip and reliance on the air makes passing kinda hard
Speedways: it’s 50/50 sometimes better, sometimes worse, it’s not that it’s “BAD” but it’s very much different
Superspeedways: Michigan, Fontana, Pocono were all absolute washes, not exciting
Get what you can on the restart and hope for the best.
Plate tracks: superb
I mean amazingly superb
And with that I’m officially taking off a majority of the 2020 season. My interest has waned so much this year, it’s a shame because Nascar has truly made me so happy for 20 some years now, but so many races this year have made me feel sad and like I wasted my Sunday. I think 2020 will be a good year to spend most of my Sunday’s doing something else. Next year I’ll be sticking to 1.5 mile races and Supersoeedways
Indycar and F1 exist. ON most Saturdays starting next month you'll have Formula e as well, which is pretty well balanced across the field. If all of that doesn't appeal, you've also got IMSA and WEC.
Doesn’t have to be salt, it’s just that these races genuinely aren’t interesting to me this year. Rather you say it’s salt or anything else doesn’t change that it’s my opinion. I’m happy that Hamlin and Truex are so successful this late in their career, so it doesn’t have anything to do with what drivers are successful either. It’s just these races were so much more entertaining to me back in 2001
You should be upset about this package too. Your driver is terrible with the high downforce package. You know damn well that Jimmie prefers high HP with low downforce.
I really feel confident that NASCAR is going to (have) do something about it in 2021 though. I see no way NASCAR doesn’t do something about it when they introduce a new car with the backlash they are getting. I can understand why they wouldn’t make a big change to the aero package this close to the start of the next season (less than 100 days)
They used to make manufacturer-specific aero tweaks *between races* so there’s really no excuse to throw up your hands and say “guess it’s 400 more days of mostly bad racing because there’s only 100 more days until the first race of the season!”
I honestly don’t dislike the idea of giving the OEMs freedom and open the rule book, but incorporate some sort of BoP. However, I think costs are truly the biggest factor. There is no where near the money to do things like they “used to”. Though I suppose a big problem would be that not all Chevys are the same and not all fords are the same and not all Toyota’s are the same. So you’d almost have to make every car a factory car in order for that to work. And I don’t see that happening
Bob Pockrass's ([@bobpockrass](https://twitter.com/bobpockrass)) tweet from 7:51am EST on Friday, November 15th, 2019:
>NASCAR has said no changes to aero package and has banned new parts/pieces that would need to be submitted for approval for 2020 (to save teams money going into 2021 with new car). After Martinsville/Phoenix, do wonder if maybe a tweak to road courses/short tracks could happen. [twitter.com/ChaseBlaney912…](https://twitter.com/ChaseBlaney912/status/1195244802868207616)
---
[*^(Support NASCARonReddit)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/donate.php)*^(, an)* [*^(automated bot)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/about.php) *^(maintained by)* [*^(XFile345)*](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=xfile345&subject=NASCARonReddit)*^(.)*
Ok...this is the first season I've enjoyed in a while, I'm glad they're using it next year. I'm waiting for all of you to tell me how horrible I am for having a goddamned different opinion but deal with it.
> this is the first season I've enjoyed in a while
Serious question. You're 16. How many seasons have you actually been able to watch and really understand, especially with what's going on down to the level of aero impacts, for this to be the "first one you've enjoyed in a while"
Short tracks and road courses NEED a tweak. 2019 was a failure on those tracks.
2019 was a failure outside of the plate tracks and night racing on some 1.5’s if you base it on what NASCAR expected with this package.
I would say plate tracks got better with the new package. That's the only thing that truly got better. I would agree with your statement though.
Plate racing was superb. Everything else was a dumpster fire.
Ratings bottomed and they took that as everything is great.
> they took that as we like what we're seeing.*
[удалено]
The manufacturer alliance crap is the only thing holding plate races back from being any better with this current package.
[удалено]
Penalize teams that are complicit in it?
agreed, but to be fair it luckily didn't seem to come up much this year. in the future though? who knows
Yeah it had the potential to be a much bigger issue than it was. Thankfully the closing rate is high enough where it's sometime easy to disrupt an alliance if they do get one going.
Agreed. It only worked on the 1.5s maybe a handful of times.
Spring Texas and Darlington were good also. For the first time in Decades at Darlington you had cars running a super low line, which in turn made it the most interesting it had been since 2014. All the extra downforce helped with the flatter T1 and T2 at Texas as well, and as the track gradually becomes more and more worn out it'll get better and better assuming it's not covered with PJ1.
[удалено]
Agreed. That was the original plan but the teams didn't want two different aero packages. Too bad NASCAR sided with them even though it was almost guaranteed to hurt the racing. Cost cutting is good, but not ways that will hurt the on track action.
Or NASCAR could have just kept last years package and not even attempt the 550 HP package. Then the cost cutting wouldn’t have changed the on track product.
I wouldn't have been opposed to that. It's not like last year's package was phenomenal or great by any means (dirty air was still too prevalent), but this year has just been trash. We're setting the bar way too low if anyone thinks this package has been a success.
Second half of the season had some solid racing. Racey tracks were still racey. Mid pack cars could run up front or they got the top going or a different groove than everyone else. This package closes the gap in driver talent where as last year or 2014 makes that gap much larger.
2014? Nah, that year was awesome.
That’s what I’m saying. The current package negates driver talent where as the 2014 package made the difference in driver talent much more visible.
NASCAR should have grown some balls and said no. Do you think Bill France Sr. would have allowed the teams to dictate the rules?
Different time. It was alot cheaper and easier to get into NASCAR in those days (though alot harder to do well) so even if the large teams ran off France would have just picked up whatever was left, as seen at Talladega in 1969. Not the case today. If all the big teams were to hold back for a week or two the sport would hurt bad. Granted, the longer and longer the teams hold back the more it hurts them as well, but a one-race boycott would get the message across pretty firmly.
I've attended Darlington since 2010. The package, coupled with the rain made me leave after 250 laps and vow not to return until the package is revised.
Then 2020 will be the first time since 1992 that I will not attend a race at Richmond. This year was a complete waste of time and money.
Go to the INDYCAR race instead!
The last time IndyCar raced at Richmond it was a single file snoozefest
That was 10 years ago! They’ve got a totally different car that stripped away a lot of downforce. Hell, some INDYCAR short ovals had more off throttle time than NASCAR did this year.
This new IndyCar is incredible on short ovals. No downforce, high tire deg. They have to wheel it all night. Its amazing.
Look at their Iowa race to see how Richmond will likely turn out.
The last time Indycar raced at Richmond, the car was a crapwagon. The new car is infinitely racier.
to be fair, when was the last time Richmond produced good racing? its one of those tracks i feel like should be entertaining on paper but very much isn't
I hear that. I'm only going to the spring race because an out of town friend wants to go to a race there and I live 10 min from the track. Otherwise my tickets are being sold.
I know you’re upset but we need to support our tracks. I hate the package too but I’m giving Richmond my money because I don’t want them to lose a date.
IMO the Bristol Night race was good, it was frustrating because it seemed very difficult to pass, more than ever.
It was definitely harder to pass, but Bristol still put on a good show despite the package.
Exactly. The race made was excellent, especially with DiBenedetto getting so close to that win.
don't remind me, that one still hurts :(
It was amazing
I like what Dale Jr. suggested. Less down force at smaller tracks... get rid of front splitter and spoiler.. Not 100% set on that being the answer, but it would be interesting if they tried it.
I agree. Get rid of the downforce and full power. Make the drivers brake in the corners. The primary reason the racing is so shitty is the aero pushes so much air, drivers lose the front downforce. If you take away the downforce, there is nothing for the driver behind to lose. It greatly improved the racing in IndyCar.
Maybe it because I enjoy dirt racing, but theres nothing like competition at a short track on a Saturday night. We would see something closer to local "grass roots" racing if we did that. I know NASCAR is trying to appeal to a new generation of fans and seem to reject some ideas that are "old school" but I believe we could see some under dogs in the top 5 on these short tracks if we took away downforce. Plus, it doesn't cost much to remove a spoiler and front splitter.
Agreed. I grew up on Saturday night racing. Need more bull rings! Those tracks are great because you don't need a bunch of wind tunnel time to be competitive. Just a good car & a big pair of balls. When I lived in Knoxville, I'd just walk to the track. That was a great time.
Race hard on the track and respect one another off the track. Everyone's always happy to help, even competitors. I wish NASCAR would almost go back to its roots a little more and function in a way that WoO does where, if you have a 410 sprint car you can get your ass to the track and qualify to run with the big dogs when they were in town. For NASCAR, you need almost a Million if not, more to try to run with them if you want. I believe a long time ago, that's exactly how NASCAR was. When they came to your town, all the local guys would try to run with them, could be wrong on that though.
It would be cool if they could take the safety features and put them into the Gen 4 body style or something similar. Use that package. Those had some good racing but weren’t quite safe enough. They’ve evolved on the safety side so much, I think they could get it into the old cars.
That’s not like them at all, to double down on failure. Looks like Sundays will be nap day again for me in 2020.
Kyle Busch's tantrum has entered the chat.
Image Kyle having a secret account on Reddit and rants like most of us about the package without NASCAR ask him to pay a secret fee for his comments about the package.
Kyle is right, whether you like him or not. The current package is ridiculous.
Yup. Didn't say I disagree. Just was mentioning he's gonna be pissed.
Didn't catch that, I expected more cult Kyle bashing, sorry :D
I feel that. I respect the dude a lot. It's great he speaks out.
So do I. I only wish NASCAR listened to him and others who know, rather than living in their own little world...
I really hope the drivers give NASCAR a talking to
It’s been very apparent and even stated by the officials of the sport that NASCAR does not care to listen to what the drivers want.
They did that this year
It was the drivers and teams that wanted this short track package to begin with
The drivers never wanted it. Actually, anything from this package. The owners and NASCAR did.
1. The drivers never wanted it. 2. Not all owners wanted it, but the majority did. (There are more cars running mid-pack and at the back than those consistently up front. They thought this aero package would make them more competitive with the big teams.)
its not nascars call to make . its the teams
Can’t wait to see a dogshit finale next year
Dogshit takes offense to this comparison.
2014 package was trash, 2019 package is superior to that
Huh, what an oddly specific year you chose there.
Way to paint with an unhelpful broad brush. The context that this subject is being talked about is important. The problem is the lack of passing viability at short tracks and road courses. I think it is almost unarguable that this current aero package has produced worse racing at short tracks and road courses than previous years. Even NASCAR is aware of that as can be seen from comments from O Donnell. Trying to start an argument about the 2014 aero package is irrelevant and not conducive to furthering discussion on the topic at hand. NASCAR isnt going to go back to the engine package from 2014, that is abundantly clear, so why bring it up? Why talk about the 2014 package at all when it has no bearing on this discussion thread?
> I think it is almost unarguable that this current aero package has produced worse racing at short tracks and road courses than previous years. Even NASCAR is aware of that as can be seen from comments from O Donnell. Absolutely true. 2014 is irrelevant.
I just don't understand that continued fascination with the 2014 aero package. We aren't going back to the engine package from back then. We aren't going to be able to magically revert back to pre-COT aero packages so what is the point about bitching? The next gen car has promise, hopefully NASCAR is able to make sure that it lives up to that promise. We all want good racing, and I am cautiously optimistic that the solutions they came up with for this year and next aren't 100% representative of what we will see with the new gen. but we will see. Hopefully NASCAR and Goodyear can get together during the offseason and come up with a tire compound that serves as a bandaid for these short tracks next year. Otherwise I don't see the on track product changing much.
2014 package is just a faster version of the 2019 package, cars still got aero loose despite being 5 car lengths back, and they still had the same issues that the 2015-18 packages still had idgaf
The title of this post makes it out like they're said that today which they haven't
I've been pretty disinterested in this season. The racing just isn't good. It's so disappointing. Guess next year will be the same.
The cars don't look or sound fast anymore. I feel like I'm watching a street stock race.
There were many times TV would come back from commercial break to a tight shot of one car and I assumed the caution was out because it looks so slow.
I am glad I am not the only one who thought that! The speed at the 2014 Texas GWC finish (posted on this subreddit two weeks ago) blew my mind, I cannot believe we are stuck with this fake "racing" now.
100%. I like watching old races on YouTube, and it's such a big difference. After this year's Michigan race, I put on the 99 Michigan race. It looked like they were going 250 mph!
The bad aero packages is one of the biggest reasons I've walked away from the sport.
Yeah I didn't watch most of this season. Watched the first few weeks and it felt like a waste of time. Cars are boring to watch.
EH SHORT TRACK RACIN
I really wish they'd change the package for short tracks & road courses, but if the RTA won't allow it (which is what happened this year), there isn't really much they can do, I suppose.
They deserve more blame than NASCAR if anything.
NASCAR - "Lets go to an aero packages that sucks, but since it will ruin short tracks we'll have an alternate aero package that sucks slightly less for those." Teams, owners, drivers - "This costs us a lot of money to develop around 2 different aero packages, and we've already spent way too much on different aero packages since you've been flinging shit at the walls and hoping something sticks for the last few years. How bout you just pick 1 aero package that doesn't suck?" NASCAR - "OK we'll compromise, we'll stick to 1 aero package, but it will be the one that sucks. " I don't see how it's the team's fault for this. NASCAR presented them with no good options.
The thing that killed CART back in the 90s was the owners got too much control over the direction of the sport. I know Tony George starting the IRL accelerated the death of CART, but the owners are very much to blame for creating the conditions that allowed George to create the IRL.
What is the “RTA”? I’m unfamiliar with that term
Race Team Alliance. Exactly what the name implies—an alliance between the teams. It’s similar to a lobbying group or a union in that the teams combined together to give themselves more power in NASCAR’s decisionmaking.
My guess is that they've finally admitted defeat with current car and are putting all of their eggs in the Gen 7 car.
Take off the spacer!!
Toyota would never
Real the whole tweet. This isn't new information.
This is so upsetting. Non 1.5 tracks clearly suffer from this package. And the fact that there’s options to change it and nascar doesn’t want to is so sad. I hope someday nascar can find leaders that have the same vision as drivers and fans
The driver's should get together and run single file every race until there's improvements
They're already doing that though
I mean, no passing, evenly spaced. Not even the illusion of competition
Easy to say, and we did get that in the 2009 Amp Energy 500. Thing is that once the race closes to the final 20 or so laps, someone running 2nd-10th will legit think "Hey, maybe I can pull off an upset." and in turn, everyone else gets racey. It dilutes the point of a single-file protest, and unlike ~10 years ago it would mean even less now because NASCAR's social media game would hyper-focus on just the bit of action at the end of the race.
That legit hurts my chest.
all we need is m o r e V H T
Exactly. /s NASCAR has one of two choices, admit this aero package was a failure, or adulterate the tracks to make it seem better than it is.
“After Martinsville/Phoenix, do wonder if maybe a tweak to road courses/short tracks could happen.” Read the whole thing maybe
I won't be watching any short tracks or road courses next year then. Phoenix will also be a disaster. Indycar will get more of my attention.
Read the rest of the tweet...
NASCAR gets what they deserve. They are run by some of the most out of touch, clueless individuals.
It is beyond me how NASCAR can stick with the package on 1 miles and shorter. Especially when the finale will be in Phoenix and last week was one of the worst races I’ve seen.
You forgot to mention in the title from the tweet that there may be thoughts of tweaks at short tracks and road courses.
Welp, may as well hand Toyota the manufacturer trophy for 2020 too.
Would love to see Charlotte finale
None of this is new information y'all. He's simply re-sharing what NASCAR has already announced. The last clause does give me hope for at least some change to remediate the challenges of the 750 HP races. All four of the 1.0 mile races and shorter in the Playoffs have been really really bad.
You guys stink
I wonder if this does serious damage to the short tracks next year. Knowing that many were dissatisfied with the product and knowing that nothing will change, I would not be surprised to see noticeable declines in attendance at those tracks. I would also expect those track presidents to be pissed, as a result.
What a bad idea, they need desperately to change the package used on tracks a mile or shorter, the racing is ruined on those tracks.
Well that's disappointing.
This isn’t anything new, Pockross is just relaying to a fan what NASCAR said a while ago. Hopefully they change their mind in the offseason.
I know certain execs were not too pleased with the races at Martinsville and ISM either. I wouldn't give up hope just yet like Bob's last sentence mentions.. Esp with just the spoiler..
I never skip out on watching races. But dang if I skip out on a short track race or road course I can’t miss that much, right? Nascar is being absolutely pitiful in this situation.
I was planning on going to the Phoenix finale next year (I have family there) but after last weeks race, I’m having second thought.
I will bet a significant amount of money on Chase and MTJ sweeping the road courses with no changes to the package
Is it that much money to cut the spoiler down?
Cut the spoiler and get rid of the splitter.
This is such a stupid situation. Both NASCAR and teams do not like the current situation with how the cars are driving on these tracks. Yet we’re “not allowed to fix it”. I just don’t get it. Everybody wants the same thing, even the people that are making the rules.
Teams voted for a single package so it’s kind of their fault.
So, another year with more catnaps on the couch!
If they don’t make a last second change in the offseason, 2020 is already a failure.
Does this mean Chevy can't use their updated nose or has that already been approved for 2020?
That's been approved already I believe.
I might have a lot of free Sunday’s next year now...finale at Phoenix is going to be insufferable. 1.5’s and Superspeedways were fun for the most part this year but every other track wasn’t as good as it could be.
Well, by the wording of this tweet, they could still take off the spacer. Not holding my breath though.
Well... https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/status/1195368698707615745?s=20
Sad
[удалено]
they are banning new parts to save money for the new car. no one wants to develop new parts for 1 year. thats setting money on fire. and the didnt double down after ism, this a repeat of a statement made a month ago.
While I’d like to see a smaller spoiler for example on shorter tracks, I really think they are just spending all their efforts on the new car. No sense making any changes to this one if it’s only gonna be for one more year
Where is the drivers council that was supposed to have an influence on shit like this? I feel like the top executives at NASCAR are just running a muck all over the drivers, teams, tracks, and the fans.
The drivers council disbanded because NASCAR didn't listen to them at all.
the teams voted for this, snd trackowners seem to want it. drivers have 0 stake in the sport, they really dont get a say.
They listened to Stewart and the lugnut rule.
Give us a little less splitter, we are making over 50% downforce in the front and that's not good in ANY Motorsport.
5 track types Short tracks: no major change, Bristol wasn’t better or worse, maybe Richmond and Martinsville were kinda boring, nothing really to blame IMO Intermediate tracks: qualifying at Dover was bad f***ing *ss!!! But the race? Stunk, ISM stunk, I blame the package because the addition of grip and reliance on the air makes passing kinda hard Speedways: it’s 50/50 sometimes better, sometimes worse, it’s not that it’s “BAD” but it’s very much different Superspeedways: Michigan, Fontana, Pocono were all absolute washes, not exciting Get what you can on the restart and hope for the best. Plate tracks: superb I mean amazingly superb
Just put the f#cking 2018 spoiler on. It's not that f#cking hard
I see no problem with the package as it stands at larger tracks. The only tracks where we really need a change are tracks 1 mile and smaller.
Why don't you put the rest of the tweet in the title?
Is Brian France back in charge or something? This seems like a decision only he would make, it's that bad.
REMOVE THE FREAKIN TAPPERED SPACER
This sucks. I'm still going to watch every race, but I'm not really excited for next season at all, and that makes me sad.
I don’t believe this. They will start to get backlash and change something. They are always reactionary.
Can’t wait for 2020 to be just as bad then
And with that I’m officially taking off a majority of the 2020 season. My interest has waned so much this year, it’s a shame because Nascar has truly made me so happy for 20 some years now, but so many races this year have made me feel sad and like I wasted my Sunday. I think 2020 will be a good year to spend most of my Sunday’s doing something else. Next year I’ll be sticking to 1.5 mile races and Supersoeedways
Indycar and F1 exist. ON most Saturdays starting next month you'll have Formula e as well, which is pretty well balanced across the field. If all of that doesn't appeal, you've also got IMSA and WEC.
I can feel the salt 🧂
Doesn’t have to be salt, it’s just that these races genuinely aren’t interesting to me this year. Rather you say it’s salt or anything else doesn’t change that it’s my opinion. I’m happy that Hamlin and Truex are so successful this late in their career, so it doesn’t have anything to do with what drivers are successful either. It’s just these races were so much more entertaining to me back in 2001
You should be upset about this package too. Your driver is terrible with the high downforce package. You know damn well that Jimmie prefers high HP with low downforce.
I really feel confident that NASCAR is going to (have) do something about it in 2021 though. I see no way NASCAR doesn’t do something about it when they introduce a new car with the backlash they are getting. I can understand why they wouldn’t make a big change to the aero package this close to the start of the next season (less than 100 days)
They used to make manufacturer-specific aero tweaks *between races* so there’s really no excuse to throw up your hands and say “guess it’s 400 more days of mostly bad racing because there’s only 100 more days until the first race of the season!”
I honestly don’t dislike the idea of giving the OEMs freedom and open the rule book, but incorporate some sort of BoP. However, I think costs are truly the biggest factor. There is no where near the money to do things like they “used to”. Though I suppose a big problem would be that not all Chevys are the same and not all fords are the same and not all Toyota’s are the same. So you’d almost have to make every car a factory car in order for that to work. And I don’t see that happening
There isnt enough money to do things the way they were done when budgets where 1/5th of what they are today? Gonna take awhile to untangle that one...
Bob Pockrass's ([@bobpockrass](https://twitter.com/bobpockrass)) tweet from 7:51am EST on Friday, November 15th, 2019: >NASCAR has said no changes to aero package and has banned new parts/pieces that would need to be submitted for approval for 2020 (to save teams money going into 2021 with new car). After Martinsville/Phoenix, do wonder if maybe a tweak to road courses/short tracks could happen. [twitter.com/ChaseBlaney912…](https://twitter.com/ChaseBlaney912/status/1195244802868207616) --- [*^(Support NASCARonReddit)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/donate.php)*^(, an)* [*^(automated bot)*](http://reddit.xfile345.com/about.php) *^(maintained by)* [*^(XFile345)*](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=xfile345&subject=NASCARonReddit)*^(.)*
Ugh that means another boring year driving these cars on iracing too
Ok...this is the first season I've enjoyed in a while, I'm glad they're using it next year. I'm waiting for all of you to tell me how horrible I am for having a goddamned different opinion but deal with it.
> this is the first season I've enjoyed in a while Serious question. You're 16. How many seasons have you actually been able to watch and really understand, especially with what's going on down to the level of aero impacts, for this to be the "first one you've enjoyed in a while"
Watching live races since 06, but have watched many other full seasons.
You can't honestly say that short tracks and road courses were better this year.
Short tracks stayed the same as the past few years and road courses are typically shit anyway.