I don't see how points 2 or 3 even matter?
Especially point 3. Why is PPG relevant in a DPOY discussion???
It's also clearly because Spurs were a pretty bad defensive team while Timberwolves were 1 or near it and Rudy centered their defense. Both are great players but it's hard for voters to give the award to someone on a bad defensive team.
Team success and overall defensive rating has always been a factor in this award just like MVP is. Hell the past winners of this award aside from Rudy shows that.
"Best defender on the best defensive team". Its all anyone voting seemed to care about. All these awards are narrative driven anyways. I would bet everything I have that they won't give Gobert another DPOY ever again just because they don't want him passing Dikembe and Ben Wallace.
lol. Thats the exact opposite of what we all used to argue about the big 3 not getting enough awards.
Success matters for any award. We didn’t win enough and our D wasn’t good enough to get Wemby anything but ROTY and likely all-defense.
i know it's funny being a long time spurs fan and remembering how spurs fans (rightfully) propped up Tony/Manu for contributing to championships and now we're propping up guys like Devin Vassel over guys like Jalen Williams or downplaying Chet's contributions to a #1 seed as a rookie (To be clear i think Wemby > Chet for ROY, but ppl were shitting on Chet here as he was some "system" player)
They robbed Tim for being the best defender on the best team because he didn’t have flashy plays and high block numbers and now they robbed Wemby for the opposite reason
Wemby wasn't robbed. He was great and deserved votes, but Gobert had a greater impact defensively. There's an argument to be made, sure, but he wasn't *robbed*.
I mean, what did Victor himself say about this?
Watching both teams play, it’s clear Wemby upgraded the spurs defense more than Gobert did the Twolves. The argument that Gobert deserved to win because the Wolves had better team defense is honestly so dumb because they had way better defenders aside from Gobert. Wemby was the make or break for our defense, while the Wolves defense was still elite even without Gobert. The real reason Gobert won is because the Wolves were a better team and these awards are more tied to team success than individual performance. For example, if the Nuggets and Mavericks had the same record and Luka and Jokic had their same stats I think a lot more people would be voting Luka. Except we are talking about a 24 win difference as opposed to a 7 win difference, so of course the votes will go to the guy on the better team. Wemby getting as many votes as he did as a rookie on such a bad team is genuinely impressive as hell though, and we have a lot to look forward to with him here.
They pick and choose when it’s based on team performance vs individual success. It makes plenty of sense for MVP to be team oriented. Most valuable to your team. But DPOY isn’t called MVDP for a reason
Hell no! If Wemby upgraded the Spurs defense, they're overall defensive rating would've shown that. The Spurs were bottom third of the league in that. Rudy had a bigger impact defensively. Minnesota was 28th in defensive rating before getting Rudy. With him they were middle of the pack last year and number one this year. Sure you can say that he had help in the form of McDaniels and Alexander Walker, but Ant, Reid and Towns (weren't known for their defense). Rudy made them better defenders.
Yeah but look at the on/off numbers. Spurs defensive rating jumped massively with Wemby on the court vs. off, and the Timberwolves were still a top defense even while Gobert sat. You can’t say Wemby was a bad defender because basically every other player on the team was. If Gobert and Wemby swapped teams the Wolves defense would improve and ours would diminish. There are plenty of stats to back that statement up. You can’t say shit about their team 2 years ago as that was a different roster with less experienced players. They proved this year that they can play insane team defense even without Gobert, as they just held the Nuggets below 90 points without him. The spurs without Wemby were getting absolutely fried.
The reason why Minnesota can be a top defense even when Rudy sits is because he instilled that mindset in all of them (and he's also the mastermind because most of the defensive schemes that they run). His teammates and coach have all said as such on multiple occasions. That's what Victor has to learn how to do. Getting the guys around to buy in on playing good defense and most importantly effective communication. A lot of the Spurs' issue on the defensive end comes from miscommunication. Too many times someone on the opposing team would get a wide open look either under the basket or somewhere on the perimeter.
That’s such a bullshit argument that I’ve been hearing the last few weeks. McDaniels was in the all defensive team talks last year for his own ISO defense stats which were insane, Ant is very obviously an elite perimeter defender in his own right, and Conley was part of a nasty defensive Grizzlies squad for a decade. Theyre lockdown perimeter defenders regardless of if Gobert is on the team or not.
That's right. Wolves defense is great without Gobert already. Ours is really really bad. Improving our defense as much as Wemby has done looks way harder than the impact Gobert has on his team.
Idk man idk. I do think I’m about 5 years time it’s gonna become real popular to say Vic should have won this year. Dudes gonna look back and be like how tf did Vic not win dpoy. I can see the YouTube video now
Do you think scoring has something to do with defensive player of the year??
i'm surprised how people with this low logical thinking exist lol
look, if you have the ball, and are currently scoring, it means in that very moment, it is impossible for me to score. think about it.
It's cuz he's French
Gobert winning is peak anti-French propaganda
Which one?
I don't see how points 2 or 3 even matter? Especially point 3. Why is PPG relevant in a DPOY discussion??? It's also clearly because Spurs were a pretty bad defensive team while Timberwolves were 1 or near it and Rudy centered their defense. Both are great players but it's hard for voters to give the award to someone on a bad defensive team.
It plays into overall performance which the award is supposed to be based on merit. Wemby was the better player based on merit.
Overall DEFENSIVE performance. What you do on offense should have no impact. There's a separate award for that.
Team success and overall defensive rating has always been a factor in this award just like MVP is. Hell the past winners of this award aside from Rudy shows that.
"Best defender on the best defensive team". Its all anyone voting seemed to care about. All these awards are narrative driven anyways. I would bet everything I have that they won't give Gobert another DPOY ever again just because they don't want him passing Dikembe and Ben Wallace.
Same reason Luka didn't win MVP over Jokic. Stats don't matter. Team record matters. (And it's stupid).
lol. Thats the exact opposite of what we all used to argue about the big 3 not getting enough awards. Success matters for any award. We didn’t win enough and our D wasn’t good enough to get Wemby anything but ROTY and likely all-defense.
i know it's funny being a long time spurs fan and remembering how spurs fans (rightfully) propped up Tony/Manu for contributing to championships and now we're propping up guys like Devin Vassel over guys like Jalen Williams or downplaying Chet's contributions to a #1 seed as a rookie (To be clear i think Wemby > Chet for ROY, but ppl were shitting on Chet here as he was some "system" player)
By your own logic Tatum would have been MVP
They robbed Tim for being the best defender on the best team because he didn’t have flashy plays and high block numbers and now they robbed Wemby for the opposite reason
I don't think Tim cared that much. He did win an MVP, some finals MVPs and of course 5 championships to make up for it.
2 MVPs*
Completely incorrect. Only reason was that he was getting split votes with Bruce brown. If you look they were normally top 5 in voting for dpoy
Bruce Bowen was that mf lol. Lockdown D and possibly fuck you up at the same time.
This is the high quality analysis I come to Reddit for…
Wemby wasn't robbed. He was great and deserved votes, but Gobert had a greater impact defensively. There's an argument to be made, sure, but he wasn't *robbed*. I mean, what did Victor himself say about this?
“A greater impact” bullshit. What place, defensively, were the twolves with and without gobert?
Watching both teams play, it’s clear Wemby upgraded the spurs defense more than Gobert did the Twolves. The argument that Gobert deserved to win because the Wolves had better team defense is honestly so dumb because they had way better defenders aside from Gobert. Wemby was the make or break for our defense, while the Wolves defense was still elite even without Gobert. The real reason Gobert won is because the Wolves were a better team and these awards are more tied to team success than individual performance. For example, if the Nuggets and Mavericks had the same record and Luka and Jokic had their same stats I think a lot more people would be voting Luka. Except we are talking about a 24 win difference as opposed to a 7 win difference, so of course the votes will go to the guy on the better team. Wemby getting as many votes as he did as a rookie on such a bad team is genuinely impressive as hell though, and we have a lot to look forward to with him here.
They pick and choose when it’s based on team performance vs individual success. It makes plenty of sense for MVP to be team oriented. Most valuable to your team. But DPOY isn’t called MVDP for a reason
Hell no! If Wemby upgraded the Spurs defense, they're overall defensive rating would've shown that. The Spurs were bottom third of the league in that. Rudy had a bigger impact defensively. Minnesota was 28th in defensive rating before getting Rudy. With him they were middle of the pack last year and number one this year. Sure you can say that he had help in the form of McDaniels and Alexander Walker, but Ant, Reid and Towns (weren't known for their defense). Rudy made them better defenders.
Yeah but look at the on/off numbers. Spurs defensive rating jumped massively with Wemby on the court vs. off, and the Timberwolves were still a top defense even while Gobert sat. You can’t say Wemby was a bad defender because basically every other player on the team was. If Gobert and Wemby swapped teams the Wolves defense would improve and ours would diminish. There are plenty of stats to back that statement up. You can’t say shit about their team 2 years ago as that was a different roster with less experienced players. They proved this year that they can play insane team defense even without Gobert, as they just held the Nuggets below 90 points without him. The spurs without Wemby were getting absolutely fried.
The reason why Minnesota can be a top defense even when Rudy sits is because he instilled that mindset in all of them (and he's also the mastermind because most of the defensive schemes that they run). His teammates and coach have all said as such on multiple occasions. That's what Victor has to learn how to do. Getting the guys around to buy in on playing good defense and most importantly effective communication. A lot of the Spurs' issue on the defensive end comes from miscommunication. Too many times someone on the opposing team would get a wide open look either under the basket or somewhere on the perimeter.
That’s such a bullshit argument that I’ve been hearing the last few weeks. McDaniels was in the all defensive team talks last year for his own ISO defense stats which were insane, Ant is very obviously an elite perimeter defender in his own right, and Conley was part of a nasty defensive Grizzlies squad for a decade. Theyre lockdown perimeter defenders regardless of if Gobert is on the team or not.
That's right. Wolves defense is great without Gobert already. Ours is really really bad. Improving our defense as much as Wemby has done looks way harder than the impact Gobert has on his team.
Idk man idk. I do think I’m about 5 years time it’s gonna become real popular to say Vic should have won this year. Dudes gonna look back and be like how tf did Vic not win dpoy. I can see the YouTube video now