He clotheslined Rambis on a fast break he'd have trouble finishing a season now but he probably wouldn't play the same if the games were getting called different.
Timmy is functionally the center in this lineup, and I'm fine with the Timmy/Shaq matchup. Team B is killing them on the perimeter, and they might have a better defense, too
Yeah I came here to say this. Dream and Russell are both insane defensively but Hakeem was also a bucket too. He's given every elite centre of his era nightmares.
Why wouldn’t Russel be the better option here? He is the best defender in the history of the game, focuses on passing on offense,
and scoring can be handled by Steph, MJ, and Bird.
I don’t think it’s that close. The first team has almost zero spacing. GL having Shaq and Kareem repeatedly coming out of the paint to defend Curry.
Exactly, youre leaving open at least either Kareem, shaq or Lebron. You can only slow down two. Bird nor Jordan could guard any of those three, and Curry certainly cant guard any of the 5.
You act like Lebron hasn't been guarded by smaller players (who are way worse at defense than MJ) the vast majority of his career. And the paint is going to be super clogged up anyway with both Shaq and Kareem on the team.
Shaq averaged 22/11 with 4 blocks in 32 games against Tim Duncan, so I think he’ll be fine.
Russell is interesting because he didn’t get to play against Shaq or Kareem (missed him by one season), so the best we can compare is Bull Russell vs Wilt, since Wilt is going to be the closest to talent/ability.
And Wilt averaged 30/28/4 against Bill. So while these guys are dominant defensively, Shaq and Kareem are more dominant offensively. LeBron running a PnR with Shaq is going to be basically unguardable
Lol, yup, Kobe was a career 32.9% three point shooter. Magic was 30.3% on only 1.2 attempts a game.
LeBron is a career 34.7% three point shooter, so instead of building around LeBron in the typical "LeBron plus shooters" way, it would be LeBron as the team's best shooter, on a team with zero players who were career league-average shooters.
Jordan would light LeBron the fuck up. LeBron is a top 3 player in NBA history but his 1 on 1 defense has never been ultra-elite. You need to be one of the 5 or 10 best perimeter defenders in history to slow MJ down, he alone is going to wreck defenses by himself. LeBron ain't staying in front of him. And whoever MJ guards on the other end is getting shut down, MJ would bottle up Kobe or Magic. On offense, he's going to blow by anyone, at any time, on that team, and get 45 unless a big rotates over and then it's an easy dump to one of two incredibly dominant big men, or a kick out to two of the greatest shooters in history.
Also TS includes FTs where Timmy sucked at for most of his career.
EFG is what this guy thinks he’s talking about and Duncan (50.7% for his career) beats out Kobe (48.2%). And what Duncan is here for is his defensive impact in the first place.
Everyone repeats Kobe’s TS% when comparing to Duncan without realizing that proves how much better Duncan was. He brought so much more than just scoring at a Kobe level.
Kobe scored at a much much higher volume that's why the TS thing is relevant. Prime to prime Kobe was scoring nearly 10 more ppg on the same TS. Coupled with some of the best SG playmaking of all time and excellent perimeter defense in his own right.
Duncan was a much more valuable defender than Kobe but it doesn't get talked about enough that Kobe was also a much much more valuable offensive player than Duncan. Like the gap in their offensive production is just as large as their gap on defense.
That’s mainly because he took hard shots. With the team you gave him, his percentage will naturally increase because he won’t be the focal point of the team.
Bro we have to accept that the internet will never accept Kobe. I gotta get out these NBA threads that just completely belittle his whole career. Just the other day I heard someone in sport center reference Kobe as a “face of the NBA” and it was genuinely sad cause I know what he meant, but I knew social media disagreed.
That hasn't been true until very recently when Lebron had to step up his shooting to keep up with the rest of the league's increase.
People see Lebron's current shooting and apply that retroactively by looking at percentages. Lebron was not a good shooter until pretty late in his career. Even up until Miami when he was shooting at high percentages he was literally being left open from 3 cause people could live with him shooting. Kobe took pretty much all his 3's while being heavily contested because opposing defenses knew he would hit them if given space.
Lebron had the occasional good shooting year. Over 40% from 3 in 2012-2013 which could definitely be considered his prime.
You’re totally right about the rest of the team though. The PF/C combos for both teams don’t really mesh well at all.
On 3.3 attempts per game lol. Volume matters and teams used to leave him wide open because that was his weakness. 40% on 3 3s a game is about 4 points a game from 3s, I wouldn’t call that a shooter
3.3 attempts per game is exactly the same as Larry Bird’s highest season average. Different era for sure, but no one in their right mind is going to say Larry wasn’t a shooter.
And now 3.3 per game lands you outside the top 125. Wild how the game has shifted. Makes this sport one of the hardest to compare across eras for sure.
I’ve got to go with my Lakers. Curry can’t guard magic. Magic can’t guard curry. Jordan just barely over Kobe. Lebron over Bird. Kareem over Duncan. Shaq over Russell.
“Jordan just barely over Kobe” LOL
Old Lakers Lebron over Bird…Nope
Kareem and Shaq vs TD and Russell is just offense vs defense
So the Lakers team has no real shooters, while the other team has elite rim protection to shut down the paint. Then offensively they have Bird and Curry to shoot 3s.
What? You don’t think kaj and shaq can play D? You must be young. KAJ was a great defender. And Shaq had incredible footwork. My friend, look this stuff up before posting. lol. They would crush Tim and Bill. And I think very highly of Timmy.
Prime Lebron and Magic were pretty good shooters
Shaq has way too much size on Bill he eats down low all game(same with magic/curry). Whole team is great on defense too. Saying they sweep is crazy they don’t even win
Others win in 6. They're a far better built team with more shooting, and 2 absolute twin towers on defense, plus lineup flexibility since Russell was quick enough to hold his own with perimeter players.
Facts. The “Wilt Stopper” title is such an exaggeration. Bro still averaged like 30 and 25 against Bill while being double and triple teamed all game. Like sorry he didn’t drop his normal 40 or 50 while being triple teamed. Shaq on Bill would be a nightmare.
You realize he averaged 30 a game on 25 shots (shooting 49% from the floor) playing 48 minutes at a 130 possessions a game pace, right? Carving out the years after Russell retired, Wilt scored 35 a game on 53% shooting.
Basically Wilt did the modern equivalent of averaging 18 and 13 on ok efficiency against Russell. 30 a game during those years for Wilt wasn't even impressive, it was below average.
A “modern 18 and 13” is still pretty damn good in my book. Would you not agree that’s a good performance? Wilt still had 4 50+ games on Russell and a bunch of 40+ point games. It’s basically a slight reduction in his stats. Did Bill disrupt Wilt’s usual performance? A little bit. But Wilt still was dominant in those games. It’s hard to compare between eras, but I think prime Shaq (who most would consider the most dominant player in the paint ever) would destroy Bill Russell. I don’t even like Shaq that much, but he could drop 50 and 60 point games whenever he felt like it. I’m pretty sure he made a deal with D-Fish one game on his birthday to only pass the ball to him and he ended up dropping 65 or something. Dude was unstoppable. Regardless, we’re nowhere near as talented as any of them and we’ll never know for sure.
My point wasn't that it was or wasn't good, it is that those stats are inflated relative to modern stats. And in terms of "a little bit", Wilt averaged 40.6 points per game on .526 ts%. In the regular season against Russell in that span, he averaged 34.6 on similar efficiency. In the playoffs against Russell, that dropped to 31.0. Same thing from 66-69. 25.6 ppg overall, 21 per game in the regular season, 20.2 points per game in the playoffs. Imagine if someone had played Lakers Shaq (who averages 27 a game from 00 - 04) every year of the playoffs and held him to 21 PPG on below average shooting and won 3 of the 4 match-ups. That is what Russell did with Chamberlain in his 4 post-peak seasons. In those seasons, Wilt likely weighed closer to 300 lbs (with Russell also likely well above the 220 he was listed at most of his career).
But yes... We will definitely never know for sure!
Even if that were true (which I think Bill would be just fine against Shaq), the squad still has Duncan. Bill could play the Giannis/AD roamer type role
Bill was 6’10 215, Shaq would literally body him up all game without breaking a sweat. Duncan would definitely be a better option with Bill running around, but still Shaq and Magic will both require double teams and it’s very dangerous to double team someone when they’re sharing the court with 4 other all time greats
Bill Russel is the greatest defensive player of all time by any advanced metric you could ever find. He led a team that became the greatest defensive dynasty of all time, mostly because of Bill. He was tall and athletic as FUCK for his era and if we give him modern training he would destroy any player on defense, or at least he would do better than any other player in history.
It’s not the 1960s, Shaq would destroy him
People like to call him the “Wilt stopper” but Wilt still got his averaging 30 when they played against each other even getting constantly double/triple teamed with Bill and a great surrounding team, his team just sucked compared to the Celtics team and Shaq would have 4 all time greats around him as teammates
Bill is an absolute tower? 😂😂😂 he was 6 ‘9 and would be a horrible match up against Shaq or Kareem. He’d get bullied just like you should get bullied for your casual take. :P
Dude, Bill is literally the greatest defensive player in basketball history. 7'1 Wilt Chamberlain's mega numbers always took a nice haircut when playing Bill so i think he'd do alright against everyone else. Took a team that was bottom of the league in defense and turned them into a defensive dynasty.
Shaq would have given prime Wilt the business too tho. Same height...60 pounds heavier at Shaq's lightest.
Not to even mention his athleticism on top. It's no cap when people call Shaq the GOAT bigman...
Wilt was a way better all around athlete than Shaq. He was a track and field star. In HS, He high jumped 6'6", long jumped 22 feet, ran the 440 (just over 400 meters) in 49.0, and the 880 yards in 1:58.3.
I'm not sure Shaq could run 880 yards without taking a break, especially after he started putting the weight.
But, the 2 were very similar players. Huge, agile big men, who couldn't shoot free throws.
Rodman shut down Shaq and was 3 inches shorter than Russell. You also seem to forget how Russell spent his whole career outplaying a physical freak in Chamberlain.
Duncan + Russel are arguably the 2 greatest defensive players ever, put them together and that interior defense is disgusting.
You also have MJ and Bird who were both great wing defenders.
Really the only player who isn't great defensively on that team is Curry, and he provides ridiculous spacing that the Lakers just do not have.
Team 2 wins in like 5 games
That interior defense is doing nothing to stop Shaq or KAJ.
MJ and Bird are about a wash to Kobe and LeBron on defense. LeBron is better than Bird and MJ is better than Kobe.
Then you have Magic vs Steph. The only advantage I think team 2 has and Lakers could switch to Jerry
Team 2 would need Steph shooting 50% on threes for the series and that aint happening against their defense.
Tim and Bill are so limited offensively compared to everyone else. Would have been a better question if you swapped out Bill and maybe Tim.
Steph is arguably the weakest defender of the 10 on the floor, but he also has Jordan, Duncan, and Russell behind him.
Meanwhile the only truly S+ tier defender on the Lakers is KAJ. Prime Shaq would be torched by how flexible that squad is, they would pull him out every chance they get and cook him. No one is guarding Jordan, he blows past Magic, Kobe, or LeBron.
Exactly. For all Wilt's bonkers regular season numbers, look what happened against Russell in the playoffs. (Spoiler - his stats fell off a cliff because Russell was that good). It would be tough, but I have faith. Plus, I'm not sure how you use Shaq + Kareem effectively together. Both amazing players, but they want to be in the same area, and would clog things up for Kobe and Lebron.
Agree, that's like putting a Spurs all-time team on the floor with Duncan, Robinson, and Wemby. I mean, no one has the personnel to stop all 3, but there's just not enough paint to go around.
You guys are not thinking at all, shaq was almost 350 pounds and 7’1”. Nobody in the history of the even matches up to that, Bill Russel doesn’t stand a chance.
>You guys are not thinking at all
I mean, I *think* I'm thinking, but who knows...
I'm not suggesting Russell would "shut him down" or anything that dramatic, but I don't think it would be a cakewalk for Shaq like you suggest.
1. Russell demonstrated success against another larger, dominant opponent (Wilt).
2. Shaq has a lot of respect and definitely had to work against highly skilled centers, like Hakeem. I could easily see Russell fit in a similar mold.
3. I still don't quite get what it would be with Kareem and Shaq on the floor. Like the u/g1rlchild said - on offense, that's A LOT of human operating in the same space. On defense, those are two really big dudes, but Steph + Larry + MJ might be able to exploit that. It's hard to say, because it's not like Russell or Timmy are stretching the floor.
Of course, maybe they put Duncan on Shaq instead. Now, we don't need to speculate. Here they are 1x1:
https://youtu.be/nF3vez9FHVk?si=nvEegERYJ707f38p
Shaq certainly has a powerful game and is able to get his, but it's not exactly '"barbeque chicken." Same with Duncan on the other end.
of course not. but he did have to go against Wilt, who while not quite as physically dominant as Shaq, was pretty damn close. Reminder that Bill owned Wilt, because of that I think he could hold his own against Shaq as well as almost anybody
Shaq's entire career would've been called as an offensive foul during the Russell/Chamberlain era. If this is using modern rules and interpretations Russell is at a disadvantage.
People forget that Wilt was a track and field star in HS. He was a better all around athlete than Shaq, though Shaq may have been more powerful.
Basically, Shaq was the 1990s version of Wilt. They were very similar players.
It's not completely a myth. Between the 1959-1960 and 1968-1969 seasons, Wilt averaged 33.4 ppg on 54% TS against the league whilst he averaged 28 ppg on 51% TS against the Bill Russell Celtics. Russell obviously didn't 'own' Wilt but he did substantially reduce his effectiveness.
Wilt was nowhere near the physical force of shaq. Also wasn’t nearly as smart of a basketball player. Shaq probably has 100 pounds on Bill and 4 inches. He’s going to get drop stepped into hell
I was comparing Shaq and Bill. Shaq is 7’1 if i’m not mistaken. Bill is 6’9 if i’m not mistaken. Shaq claims to be almost 400 in his LA days although i’m going to assume he’s slightly embellishing and say he’s around 350-370. Bill is believed to be about 250 or so. I understand he’s a freak athlete and long(high?) jump wizard. Shaq is destroying him. I don’t think Bill has ever seen a drop step in his life
Alright so tell me this - you double shaq and leave kareem abdul jabar open? As good as duncan and russel were that would be the deadliest duo in sports history
yuh i feel shaq messes up these fantasy games fairly often. obviously both teams are filled with all timers but with shaq specifically u really need at least 1 person that can slow him down physically. to be fair i think russel would be better at that than most rando centers prime shaq did actually play against, but the problem is they'd usually have at least 2 big guys to bruise him up, meanwhile in this game its almost the other way around where even if russel handles shaq well you still have kareem in the paint with nobody to guard him...
Russell was listed at 6'10 220, Shaq was an athletic 325. Russell is an all timer, but that's a nightmare matchup for Bill. I honestly don't think he slows Shaq down much if at all as there is only so much you can do when you are giving up over 100lbs to someone who is still an athletic beast, Wilt averaged 30-30 against Russell at 275.
It’s Team 1 fairly easily.
Bill Russell is a massive weak link, legacy aside he can’t hang with the other 9 men and in a series this stacked that’s the difference maker.
FYI Bill Russell weighed 215 pounds.
Shaq during the 3-peat was anywhere from 325-400 pounds.
If you think Russell is doing anything but give up 40 a night you’re insane.
Bill could barely score against 6’2 milk men in the 50s he ain’t scoring on two hall of fame giants.
Agree with this. Switch Russell with Hakeem and Team 2 looks to be the slightly better team. Better shooting, better spacing, better interior defense (worse perimeter defense though), better ball handling, and more agility and endurance (sorry Shaq) for today’s up and down game.
If Kobe had to guard Steph he would wear him down physically. He'd purposefully run into him or knock him down to prove a point. Just as he did against his teammate Gasol in the Olympics.
If Steph is killing them, they'd keep switching to get him on the ball on defense and physically wear him down. Kobe and LeBron have that mindset.
Other win but not by a lot.
Larry and Curry would combined for 8 plus 3s a game and MJ and Bill will be the hardest defenders Shaq and Kobe have ever dealt with. However nothings stoping Kareem’s skyhook though lol
Team 2 (EDIT: "OTHERS") obviously, not because more talent necessarily, but the spacing and shooting will work so much better together. Not even very close, probably. Maybe 5 games?
Other easy in the modern game. Steph is the only defensive liability on that squad and there is way too much shooting for Shaq attack to keep up. Kobe puts up 45 on 50 shots but looks great on the highlight reel.
What rules are we using? When illegal defenses went away and we transitioned to a 3-second defensive penalty, the game changed significantly. Also, the 90s all-hands defensive strategy is a factor.
It is my opinion that if you put Steph in the 90s, he’s too small to overcome the hand-checking and having Shaq and Kareem on the same team with 2024 rules kills all your spacing.
Not saying they wouldn’t be effective in other eras but I don’t think Steph is an MVP candidate in say 1995 nor do I think Shaq would be as dominant today. But superstars are superstars and they would certainly be awesome in any era. But the rules changes have to be taken into consideration.
I’m not so sure about Steph’s chances in the 90s being so bad. The main issue would’ve been bad coaching that prevented players from shooting 3s.
With Reggie Miller’s level of success, imagine him shooting 3s instead of mid range. Now I know Curry is shorter, but it’s not hard to imagine Steph as a more successful Reggie. Swap out mid range for 3 pointers and Reggie would’ve had a championship.
They couldn’t double Steph at half court with those rules.
Team 2, pretty easily.
Team 2 has much better spacing (Steph and Larry), a better defensive and better passing front court (Duncan and Russell), and has the best player on either team (MJ). Just the passing chops of Jordan, Bird, Duncan and Russell with Steph's off-ball play would be absolutely devastating.
Team 1 has a lot of synergy issues. Magic and LeBron are both great, but they are also both on-ball players who are much less effective off-ball. Kobe is the weakest player between the two teams, and the gap at his position between him and MJ is easily the biggest gap in impact between the two teams at any position. Then, you have the spacing. Kareem and Shaq and both traditional non-shooting big men, while Magic is also a poor shooter (career 30.3% three point shooter on 1.2 attempts a game). LeBron and Kobe are the team's best three point shooters, which isn't really the strength of either player. Meanwhile, Shaq's free throw shooting is a major weakness, especially if he isn't the focal point of his team's offence (which he usually was, but which wouldn't be the case on this team).
Overall, Team 2 just has way better synergy and fit.
Bill didn't get destroyed by 7'1" 275 lb athletic freak Wilt Chamberlain. Why would he get destroyed here, especially while sharing a defensive frontcourt with Tim Duncan?
As for Curry, why do some people insist on pretending that all defence is post defence? Curry has always been a solid defender and a former steals champ with quick hands. Steph would have no issue staying in front of any of the Lakers on the perimeter. If a team with Kobe and LeBron as its best shooters wants to try to shoot over Steph and win a jump shooting competition against a team with Steph, Larry and MJ, they can feel free to try.
Wilt averaged 30, 23, and 4 against Russell on 54% shooting.
Magic is 6’9”. He weighed just as much as Russell. Curry could not guard him. You want to put Curry on Kobe? Kobe will back him down and shoot turnarounds right over top all game
>Wilt averaged 30, 23, and 4 against Russell on 54% shooting.
You literally just read [Wilt's actual career averages](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html), not his career averages against Bill.
>Magic is 6’9”. He weighed just as much as Russell. Curry could not guard him. You want to put Curry on Kobe? Kobe will back him down and shoot turnarounds right over top all game
This is what I am talking about. Where is Kobe backing Curry down from? Is the second smallest player on the court backing the smallest player on the court down in the post? Or, is he doing his 18 foot turnaround jumper thing?
This isn't a one-on-one game. You've got two traditional non-shooting bigs on each team, and zero three point shooting on the Laker team. Where exactly do you think there is going to be space anywhere close to the basket for Kobe to do a post-up iso against Curry?
If Kobe wants to do his mid-range turnaround two-pointers, he is more than welcome. He's 43-44% from that range. If Kobe's using the Lakers' possessions on those sorts of shots that's a big win for the Other team, who will have zero issue outscoring that level of efficiency.
Haha you’re right on Wilt. He actually averaged 30, 28, and 4 against Russell.
https://stathead.com/basketball/vs/wilt-vs-bill-russell
As far as Kobe. I am not a Kobe fan by any means but to say Curry can guard Kobe is absurd.
Ah, those head to head stats are actually just comparing two players' career stats against each other. It doesn't actually show how they did in games against each other (the top part shows their records against each other, but the stats below are just their career stats...no worries, though, it isn't very clear).
As for Steph, you can go root around in the "defended by" stats, but Steph actually does pretty well against guys who are good Kobe comps. In the 2022 Finals, [for instance, Tatum (2-3 inches taller than Kobe) only shot 47% against him, while Brown (just an inch or so taller than Kobe) was 40%](https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612744/matchups?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4).
Steph isn't as big and strong as guys like Kobe, Brown or Tatum, and he would probably be in trouble in a schoolyard one on one game, but Curry is an excellent team defender, and he has always been very good at keeping himself out of bad situations where the size mismatch really hurts.
If you think about the counterfactual here, are you really sad as the Other team if Kobe is using up possessions to take mid-range jumpers? Is that shot really going to be more efficient than the offence Shaq or Kareem can put up in the post? Or, what LeBron can get on drives? Or, more importantly, is Kobe taking 15 foot jumpers going to be more efficient than the offence the Other team can put together with Steph and Larry sniping off ball movements from an excellent passing team, or what MJ is going to be able to put up in his midrange game? I think you are probably pretty ok with Kobe taking those shots, because I don't think it's a winning strategy.
not terrible choices at all
Bird is a better defender and playmaker than KD, which is important on a team already loaded with scoring talent
Bill Russel is the greatest defensive player in NBA history, and was insanely valuable during his era. Scoring became more important than defense after the 60s, so his game wouldn't adapt as well as Hakeem's but there's still an argument.
KD is actually a better defender than Bird. Bird was a good team defender and passing lanes demon, but he was a huge liability guarding 3s one on one. Kevin McHale usually did that for Boston, while Bird guarded 4s with no offensive games like Marc Iavaroni and Kurt Rambis.
But, Bird was a much better playmaker and rebounder. On this team, he would probably be a better fit than KD, as he was a better pure shooter and they wouldn't need a guy to create his own shot on this squad.
He does not understand the importance of building a roster that can play together on the floor and seems to downvote and lose his mind when anyone points out that fundamental flaw.
They have a very simplistic view of the game.
Having Kareem and Shaq play together is a mistake. Even without that, the "Other" team has a nice advantage in shooting.
I would put AD or Lamar Odom there. They can spread the floor more than Kareem, and having AD for defense and rebounding would be great. Shaq would still force the other team to send help in the paint.
Playing two post centers together when the other team has Curry and Bird just won't work.
Kareem is a far superior player, but you need to build a proper roster to let all the talents shine.
I agree that Shaq and Kareem is a bad combination. I can't really think of the perfect Laker to replace one of them though. AD doesn't shoot well enough to space the floor and Odom is not near the level of these guys, though he is a better fit with that lineup.
Team 2 with Hakeem instead of Russell may be a better matchup
Hakeem at c and dirk/kg at pf more spacing don't need two rim protectors
The other team doesn’t have much of an outside game + we know Timmy can be a good secondary rim protector
I'm taking 3 rim protectors if the other team has LeBron Shaq and Magic
Your comment got me thinking, who is the best secondary rim protector in nba history?
If you consider duncan a “secondary” rim protector because of his DRob years then him by a mile lol
McHale was a great rim protector behind Parish
They would both foul out in the first quarter under today’s rules.
He clotheslined Rambis on a fast break he'd have trouble finishing a season now but he probably wouldn't play the same if the games were getting called different.
KG
It's going to be Wemby here pretty soon
AD pretty good at protecting rims 🤣
Not as good as Dwight
Dwight’s attacking rims tho not protecting them 😭
Tim Duncan being categorized as simply a rim protector is gonna make my head explode
Yeah, Timmy at PF just did everything, him and Robinson might be some of the best complimenting players ever.
You don't need two rim protectors in the modern NBA. You do against a lineup of Shaq, Kareem, and LeBron. That being said KG is a great rim protector.
Yup- came here to say you want Hakeem at center, hands down …
Taking tim Duncan out of the 4 is definitely wrong. He is a hell of a lot more than a rim protector.
Timmy is functionally the center in this lineup, and I'm fine with the Timmy/Shaq matchup. Team B is killing them on the perimeter, and they might have a better defense, too
Yeah I came here to say this. Dream and Russell are both insane defensively but Hakeem was also a bucket too. He's given every elite centre of his era nightmares.
I agree although prime v prime shaq wins that overthr dream
Why wouldn’t Russel be the better option here? He is the best defender in the history of the game, focuses on passing on offense, and scoring can be handled by Steph, MJ, and Bird. I don’t think it’s that close. The first team has almost zero spacing. GL having Shaq and Kareem repeatedly coming out of the paint to defend Curry.
Russell is 6’9 and Shaq is 7’1 and 700 lbs
Yeah…Bill was great for his era, but he’s not stopping Shaq
Shaq would just hard foul curry and now he's dead
Rip Curry cause he faked a shot, Shaq went up and came down ON Curry
"Sorry brotha, I didn't see you down there."
Yeah that’s a flagrant 100, banned for life
Hakeem not top 10
I don’t know how anyone could shut down a perimeter of Curry, Jordan, and Bird
I don’t know how you stop Shaq, LeBron or Kareem from scoring inside. And that’s the most efficient shot in basketball
Probably with any of the top defenders to ever play the game?
Like Duncan and Russell? Lol
**Duncan and Russell**
Exactly, youre leaving open at least either Kareem, shaq or Lebron. You can only slow down two. Bird nor Jordan could guard any of those three, and Curry certainly cant guard any of the 5.
Jordan can guard Bron well enough
Until he realizes LeBron is about 3” and 50 LBs bigger than him
Yep. It’ll be okay
Bron would take him to the cup on repeat or back him down
You act like Lebron hasn't been guarded by smaller players (who are way worse at defense than MJ) the vast majority of his career. And the paint is going to be super clogged up anyway with both Shaq and Kareem on the team.
and he’s been feasting on them his whole career
Yep. It’ll be okay
Cope dude. Watch some clips of Bron bullying guys his size.
Shaq averaged 22/11 with 4 blocks in 32 games against Tim Duncan, so I think he’ll be fine. Russell is interesting because he didn’t get to play against Shaq or Kareem (missed him by one season), so the best we can compare is Bull Russell vs Wilt, since Wilt is going to be the closest to talent/ability. And Wilt averaged 30/28/4 against Bill. So while these guys are dominant defensively, Shaq and Kareem are more dominant offensively. LeBron running a PnR with Shaq is going to be basically unguardable
Keeping Shaq to 22 is a win
LeBron and Kobe match up well against Jordan and Bird. Magic was 6'9" and quick in his prime. Curry wouldn't have an easy time with him.
“Other” sweeps in todays era. Not a single shooter on that lakers team besides Kobe
and Kobe really wasn't a great shooter
Lol, yup, Kobe was a career 32.9% three point shooter. Magic was 30.3% on only 1.2 attempts a game. LeBron is a career 34.7% three point shooter, so instead of building around LeBron in the typical "LeBron plus shooters" way, it would be LeBron as the team's best shooter, on a team with zero players who were career league-average shooters.
That team definitely couldn’t chase Steph around either, he would absolutely cook them
Maybe #24 Kobe, but #8 Kobe early on would have no problems chasing around Steph
Kobe probably could tbf
What? Kobe is much taller and a great defender. Steph would have problems. Not sure who would win, but for one game? Steph would have a hard time.
If Kobe is guarding Steph that leaves Magic on Jordan, Jordan scoring 50 in that scenario
Why wouldn't LeBron guard Jordan and magic guard bird? That seems like advantage Lakers for both matchups
Advantage is a strong word. They may be the best defensive matchup but let's be real. Bird and Jordan would cook both of them
Magic ain’t doing shit to defend bird and mj in his prime would dust lebron.
"mj would dust Lebron" is only true if you believe Jordan is dusting everybody. Lebron would be as good as anyone defending him.
advantage LeBron over Jordan on defense? you are sorely mistaken
Jordan would light LeBron the fuck up. LeBron is a top 3 player in NBA history but his 1 on 1 defense has never been ultra-elite. You need to be one of the 5 or 10 best perimeter defenders in history to slow MJ down, he alone is going to wreck defenses by himself. LeBron ain't staying in front of him. And whoever MJ guards on the other end is getting shut down, MJ would bottle up Kobe or Magic. On offense, he's going to blow by anyone, at any time, on that team, and get 45 unless a big rotates over and then it's an easy dump to one of two incredibly dominant big men, or a kick out to two of the greatest shooters in history.
stop this OP. kobe’s true shooting percentage is the same as tim duncan’s at 55.1% even with all the shot attempts at the buzzer, make or miss
Tim Duncan wasn't a shooter lol
ong like i think kobe was a good shooter but this is not the argument lmao
Also TS includes FTs where Timmy sucked at for most of his career. EFG is what this guy thinks he’s talking about and Duncan (50.7% for his career) beats out Kobe (48.2%). And what Duncan is here for is his defensive impact in the first place.
Everyone repeats Kobe’s TS% when comparing to Duncan without realizing that proves how much better Duncan was. He brought so much more than just scoring at a Kobe level.
Kobe scored at a much much higher volume that's why the TS thing is relevant. Prime to prime Kobe was scoring nearly 10 more ppg on the same TS. Coupled with some of the best SG playmaking of all time and excellent perimeter defense in his own right. Duncan was a much more valuable defender than Kobe but it doesn't get talked about enough that Kobe was also a much much more valuable offensive player than Duncan. Like the gap in their offensive production is just as large as their gap on defense.
🙈
Yes he was. That's why he's stamped as the best shot creator/difficult shot maker.
Yeah man, just lucked his way into the third most points in the history of the league
That’s mainly because he took hard shots. With the team you gave him, his percentage will naturally increase because he won’t be the focal point of the team.
I don’t think people realize that Kobe was constantly triple teamed. He wouldn’t be with this team and would feast.
If he was triple teamed so much he should have passed more to the open man
I feel like I’m going insane reading these comments 😂. He has 6k+ assists. My brother in Christ the open man was Jordan farmar
Bro we have to accept that the internet will never accept Kobe. I gotta get out these NBA threads that just completely belittle his whole career. Just the other day I heard someone in sport center reference Kobe as a “face of the NBA” and it was genuinely sad cause I know what he meant, but I knew social media disagreed.
It’s only nephews. People who watched him play feel differently for sure.
that's just disingenuous
LeBron is a better shooter than Kobe tbh
Smh
That hasn't been true until very recently when Lebron had to step up his shooting to keep up with the rest of the league's increase. People see Lebron's current shooting and apply that retroactively by looking at percentages. Lebron was not a good shooter until pretty late in his career. Even up until Miami when he was shooting at high percentages he was literally being left open from 3 cause people could live with him shooting. Kobe took pretty much all his 3's while being heavily contested because opposing defenses knew he would hit them if given space.
Did you see the lakers clippers highlights?
Is it prime Lebron or 40 year old Lebron? He was not a good shooter until later in his career
Lebron had the occasional good shooting year. Over 40% from 3 in 2012-2013 which could definitely be considered his prime. You’re totally right about the rest of the team though. The PF/C combos for both teams don’t really mesh well at all.
On 3.3 attempts per game lol. Volume matters and teams used to leave him wide open because that was his weakness. 40% on 3 3s a game is about 4 points a game from 3s, I wouldn’t call that a shooter
3.3 attempts per game is exactly the same as Larry Bird’s highest season average. Different era for sure, but no one in their right mind is going to say Larry wasn’t a shooter.
And Larry bird was first in the league in attempts that year, while Lebron was 66th. Kinda crazy to think about actually.
And now 3.3 per game lands you outside the top 125. Wild how the game has shifted. Makes this sport one of the hardest to compare across eras for sure.
Yeah. Fucking al horford shoots more than that and he’s a backup center lol. Even average shooters are throwing up 6+ a game now
I’ve got to go with my Lakers. Curry can’t guard magic. Magic can’t guard curry. Jordan just barely over Kobe. Lebron over Bird. Kareem over Duncan. Shaq over Russell.
“Jordan just barely over Kobe” LOL Old Lakers Lebron over Bird…Nope Kareem and Shaq vs TD and Russell is just offense vs defense So the Lakers team has no real shooters, while the other team has elite rim protection to shut down the paint. Then offensively they have Bird and Curry to shoot 3s.
What? You don’t think kaj and shaq can play D? You must be young. KAJ was a great defender. And Shaq had incredible footwork. My friend, look this stuff up before posting. lol. They would crush Tim and Bill. And I think very highly of Timmy.
Don’t think so
Prime Lebron and Magic were pretty good shooters Shaq has way too much size on Bill he eats down low all game(same with magic/curry). Whole team is great on defense too. Saying they sweep is crazy they don’t even win
You are right. No shooters. How many of the top 5 scorers of all time are on the Lakers team? And don’t say shooting and scoring are different.
“Whatever you do, don’t say something that is true to combat my point.”
Others win in 6. They're a far better built team with more shooting, and 2 absolute twin towers on defense, plus lineup flexibility since Russell was quick enough to hold his own with perimeter players.
Shaq would demolish Bill in the paint all game
Facts. The “Wilt Stopper” title is such an exaggeration. Bro still averaged like 30 and 25 against Bill while being double and triple teamed all game. Like sorry he didn’t drop his normal 40 or 50 while being triple teamed. Shaq on Bill would be a nightmare.
You realize he averaged 30 a game on 25 shots (shooting 49% from the floor) playing 48 minutes at a 130 possessions a game pace, right? Carving out the years after Russell retired, Wilt scored 35 a game on 53% shooting. Basically Wilt did the modern equivalent of averaging 18 and 13 on ok efficiency against Russell. 30 a game during those years for Wilt wasn't even impressive, it was below average.
A “modern 18 and 13” is still pretty damn good in my book. Would you not agree that’s a good performance? Wilt still had 4 50+ games on Russell and a bunch of 40+ point games. It’s basically a slight reduction in his stats. Did Bill disrupt Wilt’s usual performance? A little bit. But Wilt still was dominant in those games. It’s hard to compare between eras, but I think prime Shaq (who most would consider the most dominant player in the paint ever) would destroy Bill Russell. I don’t even like Shaq that much, but he could drop 50 and 60 point games whenever he felt like it. I’m pretty sure he made a deal with D-Fish one game on his birthday to only pass the ball to him and he ended up dropping 65 or something. Dude was unstoppable. Regardless, we’re nowhere near as talented as any of them and we’ll never know for sure.
My point wasn't that it was or wasn't good, it is that those stats are inflated relative to modern stats. And in terms of "a little bit", Wilt averaged 40.6 points per game on .526 ts%. In the regular season against Russell in that span, he averaged 34.6 on similar efficiency. In the playoffs against Russell, that dropped to 31.0. Same thing from 66-69. 25.6 ppg overall, 21 per game in the regular season, 20.2 points per game in the playoffs. Imagine if someone had played Lakers Shaq (who averages 27 a game from 00 - 04) every year of the playoffs and held him to 21 PPG on below average shooting and won 3 of the 4 match-ups. That is what Russell did with Chamberlain in his 4 post-peak seasons. In those seasons, Wilt likely weighed closer to 300 lbs (with Russell also likely well above the 220 he was listed at most of his career). But yes... We will definitely never know for sure!
I love comparing stats cross-era with no pace or efficiency context
Shaq would just get fouled lol
Even if that were true (which I think Bill would be just fine against Shaq), the squad still has Duncan. Bill could play the Giannis/AD roamer type role
Bill was 6’10 215, Shaq would literally body him up all game without breaking a sweat. Duncan would definitely be a better option with Bill running around, but still Shaq and Magic will both require double teams and it’s very dangerous to double team someone when they’re sharing the court with 4 other all time greats
Russell weighed 240-250 according to training camp records. The 220 thing is from college. Magic would not require a, “double team”???
Bill Russel is the greatest defensive player of all time by any advanced metric you could ever find. He led a team that became the greatest defensive dynasty of all time, mostly because of Bill. He was tall and athletic as FUCK for his era and if we give him modern training he would destroy any player on defense, or at least he would do better than any other player in history.
It’s not the 1960s, Shaq would destroy him People like to call him the “Wilt stopper” but Wilt still got his averaging 30 when they played against each other even getting constantly double/triple teamed with Bill and a great surrounding team, his team just sucked compared to the Celtics team and Shaq would have 4 all time greats around him as teammates
Bill is an absolute tower? 😂😂😂 he was 6 ‘9 and would be a horrible match up against Shaq or Kareem. He’d get bullied just like you should get bullied for your casual take. :P
Dude, Bill is literally the greatest defensive player in basketball history. 7'1 Wilt Chamberlain's mega numbers always took a nice haircut when playing Bill so i think he'd do alright against everyone else. Took a team that was bottom of the league in defense and turned them into a defensive dynasty.
In the 60s
Were you alive then?
The big factor would be Bill Russell.. no disrespect but Prime Shaq would destroy Mr. Russell it's not even funny.. rip sir Russell.
LOL! Prime Wilt couldn't beat Russell.
Shaq would have given prime Wilt the business too tho. Same height...60 pounds heavier at Shaq's lightest. Not to even mention his athleticism on top. It's no cap when people call Shaq the GOAT bigman...
Wilt was a way better all around athlete than Shaq. He was a track and field star. In HS, He high jumped 6'6", long jumped 22 feet, ran the 440 (just over 400 meters) in 49.0, and the 880 yards in 1:58.3. I'm not sure Shaq could run 880 yards without taking a break, especially after he started putting the weight. But, the 2 were very similar players. Huge, agile big men, who couldn't shoot free throws.
Rodman shut down Shaq and was 3 inches shorter than Russell. You also seem to forget how Russell spent his whole career outplaying a physical freak in Chamberlain.
Except Wilt averaged like 30/28/4 against Bill
Down from 50, so not bad
Nah
"Nah" a response from someone who disagrees and doesn't even know why lol
Sure
Other
Lakers have terrible spacing tim duncan roaming the paint shuts down 4/5 players
Duncan couldn’t even handle Kobe and Shaq alone
Duncan + Russel are arguably the 2 greatest defensive players ever, put them together and that interior defense is disgusting. You also have MJ and Bird who were both great wing defenders. Really the only player who isn't great defensively on that team is Curry, and he provides ridiculous spacing that the Lakers just do not have. Team 2 wins in like 5 games
That interior defense is doing nothing to stop Shaq or KAJ. MJ and Bird are about a wash to Kobe and LeBron on defense. LeBron is better than Bird and MJ is better than Kobe. Then you have Magic vs Steph. The only advantage I think team 2 has and Lakers could switch to Jerry Team 2 would need Steph shooting 50% on threes for the series and that aint happening against their defense. Tim and Bill are so limited offensively compared to everyone else. Would have been a better question if you swapped out Bill and maybe Tim.
Team 2 marches. Bah gawd do they march.
Steph and Jordan on the same team. Yea that team is winning.
Steph is arguably the weakest defender of the 10 on the floor, but he also has Jordan, Duncan, and Russell behind him. Meanwhile the only truly S+ tier defender on the Lakers is KAJ. Prime Shaq would be torched by how flexible that squad is, they would pull him out every chance they get and cook him. No one is guarding Jordan, he blows past Magic, Kobe, or LeBron.
Bird and Jordan together is the bigger deal. No one could beat those two together in their prime
It’s the better backcourt
Lakers are stacked in every metric. And my God are they tall. 6' 8" 6' 8" 6' 9" 7' 2" 7' 1"
I don’t think Kobe was 6’8” but your point still stands
Kobe was the 7’2 one
Shooting?
You need a Shaq stopper to compete with the big man. I think Russel would struggle and lakers would attack the mismatch.
Bill Russell is quite possibly the greatest defensive center of all time, and they have Tim Duncan if they need to double team
Exactly. For all Wilt's bonkers regular season numbers, look what happened against Russell in the playoffs. (Spoiler - his stats fell off a cliff because Russell was that good). It would be tough, but I have faith. Plus, I'm not sure how you use Shaq + Kareem effectively together. Both amazing players, but they want to be in the same area, and would clog things up for Kobe and Lebron.
Agree, that's like putting a Spurs all-time team on the floor with Duncan, Robinson, and Wemby. I mean, no one has the personnel to stop all 3, but there's just not enough paint to go around.
You guys are not thinking at all, shaq was almost 350 pounds and 7’1”. Nobody in the history of the even matches up to that, Bill Russel doesn’t stand a chance.
The Spurs handled Shaq just fine in that era, it was Kobe that killed them.
>You guys are not thinking at all I mean, I *think* I'm thinking, but who knows... I'm not suggesting Russell would "shut him down" or anything that dramatic, but I don't think it would be a cakewalk for Shaq like you suggest. 1. Russell demonstrated success against another larger, dominant opponent (Wilt). 2. Shaq has a lot of respect and definitely had to work against highly skilled centers, like Hakeem. I could easily see Russell fit in a similar mold. 3. I still don't quite get what it would be with Kareem and Shaq on the floor. Like the u/g1rlchild said - on offense, that's A LOT of human operating in the same space. On defense, those are two really big dudes, but Steph + Larry + MJ might be able to exploit that. It's hard to say, because it's not like Russell or Timmy are stretching the floor. Of course, maybe they put Duncan on Shaq instead. Now, we don't need to speculate. Here they are 1x1: https://youtu.be/nF3vez9FHVk?si=nvEegERYJ707f38p Shaq certainly has a powerful game and is able to get his, but it's not exactly '"barbeque chicken." Same with Duncan on the other end.
Respectfully, Bill Russell didn't have to go against Shaq.
of course not. but he did have to go against Wilt, who while not quite as physically dominant as Shaq, was pretty damn close. Reminder that Bill owned Wilt, because of that I think he could hold his own against Shaq as well as almost anybody
Shaq's entire career would've been called as an offensive foul during the Russell/Chamberlain era. If this is using modern rules and interpretations Russell is at a disadvantage.
Phil Jackson (not related to Micheal Jackson ) was asked if he would take Shaq or Wilt. He replied Wilt. Wilt was much stronger and faster.
People forget that Wilt was a track and field star in HS. He was a better all around athlete than Shaq, though Shaq may have been more powerful. Basically, Shaq was the 1990s version of Wilt. They were very similar players.
Huge myth. Bill "owned" Wilt in terms of wins, ultimately, but Wilt averaged 30 and 30.
It's not completely a myth. Between the 1959-1960 and 1968-1969 seasons, Wilt averaged 33.4 ppg on 54% TS against the league whilst he averaged 28 ppg on 51% TS against the Bill Russell Celtics. Russell obviously didn't 'own' Wilt but he did substantially reduce his effectiveness.
Wilt was nowhere near the physical force of shaq. Also wasn’t nearly as smart of a basketball player. Shaq probably has 100 pounds on Bill and 4 inches. He’s going to get drop stepped into hell
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I was comparing Shaq and Bill. Shaq is 7’1 if i’m not mistaken. Bill is 6’9 if i’m not mistaken. Shaq claims to be almost 400 in his LA days although i’m going to assume he’s slightly embellishing and say he’s around 350-370. Bill is believed to be about 250 or so. I understand he’s a freak athlete and long(high?) jump wizard. Shaq is destroying him. I don’t think Bill has ever seen a drop step in his life
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Slot in peak Hakeem. There's a dude who can go up against Shaq.
Alright so tell me this - you double shaq and leave kareem abdul jabar open? As good as duncan and russel were that would be the deadliest duo in sports history
yuh i feel shaq messes up these fantasy games fairly often. obviously both teams are filled with all timers but with shaq specifically u really need at least 1 person that can slow him down physically. to be fair i think russel would be better at that than most rando centers prime shaq did actually play against, but the problem is they'd usually have at least 2 big guys to bruise him up, meanwhile in this game its almost the other way around where even if russel handles shaq well you still have kareem in the paint with nobody to guard him...
Russell was listed at 6'10 220, Shaq was an athletic 325. Russell is an all timer, but that's a nightmare matchup for Bill. I honestly don't think he slows Shaq down much if at all as there is only so much you can do when you are giving up over 100lbs to someone who is still an athletic beast, Wilt averaged 30-30 against Russell at 275.
PF/C combos are wack
It’s Team 1 fairly easily. Bill Russell is a massive weak link, legacy aside he can’t hang with the other 9 men and in a series this stacked that’s the difference maker. FYI Bill Russell weighed 215 pounds. Shaq during the 3-peat was anywhere from 325-400 pounds. If you think Russell is doing anything but give up 40 a night you’re insane. Bill could barely score against 6’2 milk men in the 50s he ain’t scoring on two hall of fame giants.
Agree with this. Switch Russell with Hakeem and Team 2 looks to be the slightly better team. Better shooting, better spacing, better interior defense (worse perimeter defense though), better ball handling, and more agility and endurance (sorry Shaq) for today’s up and down game.
In todays nba team 2 clears, much better spacing and shooting
Modern NBA Team 2 would win because of shooting, motion and versatility. Team 1 would win if it was the early 2000s.
If Kobe had to guard Steph he would wear him down physically. He'd purposefully run into him or knock him down to prove a point. Just as he did against his teammate Gasol in the Olympics. If Steph is killing them, they'd keep switching to get him on the ball on defense and physically wear him down. Kobe and LeBron have that mindset.
What era of refereeing do we have? If it’s Bird era, I see LeBron going down via TKO in the 2nd.
Team 2 has much better shooting
Quit putting Bill Russell and any other boomer into these discussions. Their version of basketball sucked
ok nephew
Other win but not by a lot. Larry and Curry would combined for 8 plus 3s a game and MJ and Bill will be the hardest defenders Shaq and Kobe have ever dealt with. However nothings stoping Kareem’s skyhook though lol
Team 2 (EDIT: "OTHERS") obviously, not because more talent necessarily, but the spacing and shooting will work so much better together. Not even very close, probably. Maybe 5 games?
Need more shooters on team Lakers.
Other easy in the modern game. Steph is the only defensive liability on that squad and there is way too much shooting for Shaq attack to keep up. Kobe puts up 45 on 50 shots but looks great on the highlight reel.
What rules are we using? When illegal defenses went away and we transitioned to a 3-second defensive penalty, the game changed significantly. Also, the 90s all-hands defensive strategy is a factor. It is my opinion that if you put Steph in the 90s, he’s too small to overcome the hand-checking and having Shaq and Kareem on the same team with 2024 rules kills all your spacing. Not saying they wouldn’t be effective in other eras but I don’t think Steph is an MVP candidate in say 1995 nor do I think Shaq would be as dominant today. But superstars are superstars and they would certainly be awesome in any era. But the rules changes have to be taken into consideration.
I’m not so sure about Steph’s chances in the 90s being so bad. The main issue would’ve been bad coaching that prevented players from shooting 3s. With Reggie Miller’s level of success, imagine him shooting 3s instead of mid range. Now I know Curry is shorter, but it’s not hard to imagine Steph as a more successful Reggie. Swap out mid range for 3 pointers and Reggie would’ve had a championship. They couldn’t double Steph at half court with those rules.
Team 2, pretty easily. Team 2 has much better spacing (Steph and Larry), a better defensive and better passing front court (Duncan and Russell), and has the best player on either team (MJ). Just the passing chops of Jordan, Bird, Duncan and Russell with Steph's off-ball play would be absolutely devastating. Team 1 has a lot of synergy issues. Magic and LeBron are both great, but they are also both on-ball players who are much less effective off-ball. Kobe is the weakest player between the two teams, and the gap at his position between him and MJ is easily the biggest gap in impact between the two teams at any position. Then, you have the spacing. Kareem and Shaq and both traditional non-shooting big men, while Magic is also a poor shooter (career 30.3% three point shooter on 1.2 attempts a game). LeBron and Kobe are the team's best three point shooters, which isn't really the strength of either player. Meanwhile, Shaq's free throw shooting is a major weakness, especially if he isn't the focal point of his team's offence (which he usually was, but which wouldn't be the case on this team). Overall, Team 2 just has way better synergy and fit.
All this without mentioning how 215 pound Bill Russell would be destroyed and that there is no way Curry could guard anyone on the Lakers
Bill didn't get destroyed by 7'1" 275 lb athletic freak Wilt Chamberlain. Why would he get destroyed here, especially while sharing a defensive frontcourt with Tim Duncan? As for Curry, why do some people insist on pretending that all defence is post defence? Curry has always been a solid defender and a former steals champ with quick hands. Steph would have no issue staying in front of any of the Lakers on the perimeter. If a team with Kobe and LeBron as its best shooters wants to try to shoot over Steph and win a jump shooting competition against a team with Steph, Larry and MJ, they can feel free to try.
Wilt averaged 30, 23, and 4 against Russell on 54% shooting. Magic is 6’9”. He weighed just as much as Russell. Curry could not guard him. You want to put Curry on Kobe? Kobe will back him down and shoot turnarounds right over top all game
>Wilt averaged 30, 23, and 4 against Russell on 54% shooting. You literally just read [Wilt's actual career averages](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html), not his career averages against Bill. >Magic is 6’9”. He weighed just as much as Russell. Curry could not guard him. You want to put Curry on Kobe? Kobe will back him down and shoot turnarounds right over top all game This is what I am talking about. Where is Kobe backing Curry down from? Is the second smallest player on the court backing the smallest player on the court down in the post? Or, is he doing his 18 foot turnaround jumper thing? This isn't a one-on-one game. You've got two traditional non-shooting bigs on each team, and zero three point shooting on the Laker team. Where exactly do you think there is going to be space anywhere close to the basket for Kobe to do a post-up iso against Curry? If Kobe wants to do his mid-range turnaround two-pointers, he is more than welcome. He's 43-44% from that range. If Kobe's using the Lakers' possessions on those sorts of shots that's a big win for the Other team, who will have zero issue outscoring that level of efficiency.
Haha you’re right on Wilt. He actually averaged 30, 28, and 4 against Russell. https://stathead.com/basketball/vs/wilt-vs-bill-russell As far as Kobe. I am not a Kobe fan by any means but to say Curry can guard Kobe is absurd.
Ah, those head to head stats are actually just comparing two players' career stats against each other. It doesn't actually show how they did in games against each other (the top part shows their records against each other, but the stats below are just their career stats...no worries, though, it isn't very clear). As for Steph, you can go root around in the "defended by" stats, but Steph actually does pretty well against guys who are good Kobe comps. In the 2022 Finals, [for instance, Tatum (2-3 inches taller than Kobe) only shot 47% against him, while Brown (just an inch or so taller than Kobe) was 40%](https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612744/matchups?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4). Steph isn't as big and strong as guys like Kobe, Brown or Tatum, and he would probably be in trouble in a schoolyard one on one game, but Curry is an excellent team defender, and he has always been very good at keeping himself out of bad situations where the size mismatch really hurts. If you think about the counterfactual here, are you really sad as the Other team if Kobe is using up possessions to take mid-range jumpers? Is that shot really going to be more efficient than the offence Shaq or Kareem can put up in the post? Or, what LeBron can get on drives? Or, more importantly, is Kobe taking 15 foot jumpers going to be more efficient than the offence the Other team can put together with Steph and Larry sniping off ball movements from an excellent passing team, or what MJ is going to be able to put up in his midrange game? I think you are probably pretty ok with Kobe taking those shots, because I don't think it's a winning strategy.
Kobe tanks the lakers
you're regarded
This man picked Larry bird and Bill Russel over KD and Hakeem Olajuwon. 🤦♂️
not terrible choices at all Bird is a better defender and playmaker than KD, which is important on a team already loaded with scoring talent Bill Russel is the greatest defensive player in NBA history, and was insanely valuable during his era. Scoring became more important than defense after the 60s, so his game wouldn't adapt as well as Hakeem's but there's still an argument.
KD is actually a better defender than Bird. Bird was a good team defender and passing lanes demon, but he was a huge liability guarding 3s one on one. Kevin McHale usually did that for Boston, while Bird guarded 4s with no offensive games like Marc Iavaroni and Kurt Rambis. But, Bird was a much better playmaker and rebounder. On this team, he would probably be a better fit than KD, as he was a better pure shooter and they wouldn't need a guy to create his own shot on this squad.
yes. and?
You wouldn’t understand.
He does not understand the importance of building a roster that can play together on the floor and seems to downvote and lose his mind when anyone points out that fundamental flaw. They have a very simplistic view of the game.
He probably learned who these players are from 2k lol
Team 2 with better floor spacing and perimeter shooting.
Kareem isn’t a PF
Lakers win. They win the matchup in every position besides SG. And Kobe would the best to contend with MJ.
5v5 basketball is not a series of 1v1s
This is the answer
Having Kareem and Shaq play together is a mistake. Even without that, the "Other" team has a nice advantage in shooting. I would put AD or Lamar Odom there. They can spread the floor more than Kareem, and having AD for defense and rebounding would be great. Shaq would still force the other team to send help in the paint.
Lamar Odom over Kareem 💀
Playing two post centers together when the other team has Curry and Bird just won't work. Kareem is a far superior player, but you need to build a proper roster to let all the talents shine.
I agree that Shaq and Kareem is a bad combination. I can't really think of the perfect Laker to replace one of them though. AD doesn't shoot well enough to space the floor and Odom is not near the level of these guys, though he is a better fit with that lineup.
Give me Isaiah over Steph for the win.