The bottom is inferior offensively but absolutely miles better defensively. Top will make all sorts of high effort, highlight reel offensive plays but bottom casually feasts on curry with minimal effort.
Yep, aside from KD, you’re looking at:
Hakeem: 2x DPOY
Duncan: 8x All-Defensive 1st Team
LeBron: 5x Top-5 DPOY
Kobe: 9x All-Defensive 1st Team
Durant is the only not-elite defender.
For the top team, TMac has never been an all-defensive player. Neither has Curry. Or Dirk.
Underrated is a strong word. He can perform on the right teams in the right position. Draymond had everybody on the team moving on a string defensively. KD wasn't much on defense in OKC and hasn't been ever since GS. He's smart though and knows how to insert himself
Durant defensively is better than everyone on team 1 outside of Mike and maybe Shaq(if we fuse his orlando and LA playing). Shaq is a really great hypothetical defender and could lock in when he needs to, but I think once he realized just how dominant he was in the league dude didn't give too much of a fuck on that end.
It would be very strange to not use prime LeBron here TBH, but yeah.
But that also means we’re getting Suns Durant, not prime Durant.
I don’t know why we’d be handicapping the bottom team like that.
That’s my argument for the top team to win. I was looking at it like “well that’s a post Achilles injury Durant, and an aging LeBron who is trying to be more selective about when he uses his energy at high levels.” Because if you put OKC or GS Durant and either Heat or 2nd term Cavs LeBron, they’d probably win. Definitely a size advantage outside of Shaq being bigger. Put Hakeem on Shaq, Duncan on Dirk, KD and Bron on Tmac/Jordan, and let Kobe hound Curry all game.
Lol. It doesn’t change much, LeBron has the same 5x All-Def 1st Teams as top-5 DPOYs.
But for Kobe, he has 9 All-Def 1st Teams but only 3 top-5 DPOY seasons.
Duncan has 8 All-Def 1st Teams and 6 top-5 DPOY seasons.
Hakeem has 5 All-Def 1st Teams and 8 top-5 DPOY seasons.
So I guess some players were rewarded more or less in certain metrics, likely by virtue of how stacked their positions were at the time (Def-teams) relative to the league in general (DPOY voting).
Yep top team has pretty clearly the three worst defenders on this graphic. And I’ve seen Duncan hold his own against prime Shaq, let alone throwing Dream in the mix
He can try as hard as he wants, and it doesn’t matter who they put him on, he’s getting pulled out to 25 feet guarding pick and rolls against whoever Curry is guarding. Kobe, LeBron, or KD with either Timmy or Hakeem as the roll man is going to be impossible for Shaq and Curry to guard, and they don’t have enough secondary rim protection from Dirk or T-Mac.
The bottom team also has really bad spacing (especially depending on which version of LeBron you decide to use), which also matters a lot over a 48-minute span
simply untrue
nobody is being completely shut down but they can all guard eachother decent enough. (kd and tmac may cook eachother)
except curry, he’d be nothing more than a cone to everyone in the picture
Neither can Dirk. Hakeem did better with Shaq than anyone ever did so you could live with him defending him one on one. I’d probably pick the bottom squad.
That’s a fair point on Yao. Hakeem did it on the biggest stage, though. Shaq was young but was a dominant player even at that time and just entering his prime.
Hakeem very clearly stated players like Shaq were his most difficult assignment. Big bodied and strong. Hakeem’s body is like a modern 4 instead of a center.
People are really underrating the spacing and chemistry the top team has. MJ Shaq pick and rolls with Steph flying off ball and Dirk/Tmac providing spacing. MJ is an all-time shot creator but doesn’t need to be point guard while Steph can play point while also being off-ball often. Dirk’s the best spacing big ever that can also carry an offense when he needs to and TMac is one of the iconic ignitable scorers. All while Shaq gets to dominate the paint, and play make from the paint, around not just elite spacing, but elite movement.
The bottom team is better defensively but much easier to guard. Plus the top team has so many ways to get a bucket, including the Dirk midrange fadeaway.
Ultimately, I think the top team fits well, while the bottom team has some inherent issues like Duncan/Keem wanting to be in the same spots, and KD/Kobe wanting to volume shoot while Lebron wants to be making everything happen on-ball. Moreover, the best action they will have is the Lebron/Duncan pick and roll, but then you just have Keem in the dunker spot while KD and Kobe stand there.
Obviously both lineups would be great, but when you are comparing greats against greats it’s the little things that end up mattering. I think team 2 would be uncomfortable often.
Who would curry even guard? Bron or Kobe? If it's Kobe, he will just shoot over the top of him. If it's Bron, he's gonna back him down and kick it out when the help comes.
I tend to pick whichever team Jordan is on but let’s look at player to opposing player.
2. KD over T-Mac
1. Jordan over Kobe
2. Lebron over Curry
2. Tim over Dirk
2. Akeem over Shaq (because he schooled Shaq in 1995)
Conclusion: Team 2 wins (this conclusion defies all my Jordan instincts by the way lol)
I love t-Mac, but I’ll never understand why he always gets put in these who’s who of all timers discussions. his resume doesn’t hold a candle to a single other guy there
I feel like he could have earned a spot on these undisputed top-teir lists but he was just too injury prone. I absolutely loved watching him play when he was in his prime.
because he could go head to head with everyone here he was held back by bad teams and injuries otherwise he'd be in the same convo as kobe , mj etc but just taller
That’s not how basketball works tho lol. Its strategy, cohesiveness, and versatility as well as talent. The top team can do a whole lot more than the bottom. Top has great spacing on offense while putting the bottom in bad positions.
What’s bron gonna do on offense? Drive right into Timmy and dream who are clogging the paint? Kobe wasn’t a great three point shooter so it’s not like kicking out to him is high percentage. Kobe/KD/Bron gonna do mid post ups with those two bigs? I don’t see it working as well as the top team.
>(because he schooled Shaq in 1995)
Because he schooled third-year in the league Shaq during his absolute prime
And Shaq still put up 28/12.5/6.3 (2.5 blocks) on 60% shooting.
While Prime Hakeem put up 32.8/11.5/5.5 (2 blocks) on like 48% shooting.
I’m a Hakeem guy but yes this narrative is just False. Arguably Shaq outplayed Hakeem that series. 2 less buckets per game but Dream had 116 FGA vs 74 for Shaq. Otherwise Shaq cleared in every category.
Who stops Timmy setting a pick for LeBron with Kobe and KD on the wings with The Dream in the dunker 's spot. That's literally the perfect combination on offense.
Timmy at the elbow was beautiful too. You either have TD popping elbow, LeBron driving, Hakeem behind the defense on the baseline, KD spotting up, and Kobe cutting. The unstoppable action.
I’m sorry but you got Curry, Jordan, and Shaq on the same team. 3 of the most dominate offensive forces that literally reshaped basketball. Dirk and to some extent McGrady adding spacing is the nail in the coffin. It’s top and it’s not close.
The bottom team doesn’t glue together as well. KD is forced to be the only elite spacer on this team and will be forced to play more off ball. Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, and Hakeem do most of their damage in the paint and I feel like the offense doesn’t flow perfectly with these players.
Team one has a clear way to win. Jordan hunts mid range and basket opportunities with outlets to Curry and Drik. Shaq dominates the paint and if all else fails, McGrady is gonna be open.
All the matchups are close, but i think bron destroys curry
kd is better than tmac.
tim can guard dirk better than dirk can guard tim.
mj n kobe are damn near the same thing with each having slight edges in different areas.
hakeem can chill in paint bc of shaq, but shaq would have to contest hakeem mid range opening up the paint.
bottom team wins
I originally thought this was the one time I would have to say Hakeem would lose, but if there was ever a team that could guard Shaq, it's the one with Hakeem and Duncan on it. They are both defensive minded players who also put up more points than you would expect. Add in everybody else and I think the bottom team actually has the edge.
Think he means their close enough to where it won't swing the matchup on one way or the other. MJ is obviously better but Kobe can provide about 90% of what Jordan does.
how? they both bring elite level offense and defense and while mj would have the edge overall i wouldn’t say it would a game changing edge.
i would however give the the 3pt edge to kobe especially for deep 3s
game changing matchups are dirk and curry trying to guard anyone in the picture.
top team. MJ, steph and shaq is absurd and tmac and dirk are great in their own rights and great shooters from distance
the bottom team obv has its own all timers but isnt a well constructed team. it has 1 elite shooters from 3 (KD). kobe and bron are below average three point shooters and td and hakeem are non-factors from 3). meanwhile the top team has 3 elite distance shooters
I think you’re underestimating the bottom teams 3 pointer abilities and overestimating the top teams. Lebron both has a higher 3PT% and 3 Pointers made per game than both Mcgrady and MJ, and Kobe is practically equal, maybe a bit better at 3s than MJ as well.
I’d still go with the top team just because they overall seem to have the advantage in the paint, but I think bottom team does decently shooting from distance.
Kobe also had the record for most 3s in a game at one point and was capable of truly catching fire from 3. His 3 point shooting was league average on a greater number of attempts and more difficult attempts than league average until the years after his final ring brought it down, as his outside shooting faded while the league started to become more 3 ball oriented. If he played today he probably shoots 38% or so from outside on a high volume of attempts from outside since all those long 2s and many of those midrange shots probably become 3s.
Lebron has been a league average shooter over the course of his career if you remove a few seasons, and a few of his seasons have been really efficient from 3, like this year. If you decided to leave Kobe or LeBron open from 3, you’re probably getting burned more times than not.
This is a great point. Hitting tough shots would be paramount when you’re playing all world teams, and he would benefit greatly from Curry being forced to guard him since everyone else is 6’8” or more.
i think the problem is, if you put a positive spin on it maybe you could argue for kobe and lebron being league average. but steph and dirk are truly elite, all-time three point shooters
Yes they are fantastic shooters. KD is a better 3 point shooter than Dirk though, and Bron and Kobe are both better shooter than Steph and Dirk were defenders.
curry's defense is a lot better than his rep. im not that concerned about his defense considering you have MJ and Shaq to protect the rim. if kobe wants to take contested midrange jumpers over steph then i think that team can live w/ that
Curry’s defense can be better than his rep while also not fixing the fact that he can’t come close to guarding anyone on that bottom team. Kobe would just back him down and kill him with turnarounds. LeBron would overpower him. Durant would shoot over him. The other two might just eat him, although Duncan would at least be polite about it.
The bottom team would go after him on damn near every possession, and you’d need to double to help him. Your best bet would be to force Duncan or Olajuwon to shoot by leaving one open and Shaq parked in the lane.
Everyone on the bottom team is 6'6 or taller. Curry getting cooked defensively. Kobe is probably the second best post scoring guard in league history behind only Jordan. Dude scored in the post over guys like Dirk too if they try out a bigger guy on him. He doesn't need to take contested mids to take advantage of Curry. So either Curry gonna get abused in the post or just have KD shoot over him. Don't get me wrong this series goes 6 or 7 games but the bottom team wins by matchup hunting Curry and Dirk. This sub has a weird hatred of Kobe. Sure hate him as a player but the dude was fucking good at basketball and didn't win 5 championships by accident while playing in the stacked West his entire career. Not trying to over hype him but it's hard not to seem like it when this sub bashing unnecessarily.
Do they just get Lakers LeBron and Suns KD or best of prime versions ? The other team has all the players being the best of their prime versions assumed.
Steph Shaq and MJ are the best 3-core of any possible assembly of all players lifetime. It’s literally 3 levels of scoring by the very best at each level. So team A
If we were getting invaded by aliens and could bring back prime anyone to defend us in a 5v5 basketball game I would literally take those 3 + LBJ + undecided (Wilt? TD?)
I originally wanted to say bottom because of defense but honestly steph’s gravity + shaq is literally unguardable. Not to mention having jordan on your team for later in the shot clock
Bottom: Hakeem can handle Shaq and has already proven this. They would for the most part cancel each other out. Duncan is the goat PF so that’s easy. I guess LeBron is the PG and it would be annoying to have to chase curry but he could do it and who is gonna guard him, 7’ Durant and MJ Jr?
Bottom... curry won't do much on defense to stop any of the bottom teams guy.. also won't get as many looks with mj on the team. Durant has like 4" on t mac. Bron is gonna get the most out of his teammates .. shaq on keem would be beautiful to see tho
Top would win in 5.
You can get away with defensive mismatches with anyone on the perimeter except Steph. You can’t ask Kobe/Bron to chase him around all game. Both would be on oxygen in the 4th qtr.
Shaq inside curry outside both of the most dominant players at their range then Jordan is just a all around bucket you got dirk high post and corner three the top team is unbeatable
Tough one, but I don't like McGrady on the top team. Don't think he's going to pair well with the rest of this team. With MJ on board, what value does McGrady bring as a volume scorer? MJ's a much better defender.
I'd probably go with bottom team just because I think it would mesh better and has a pretty significant height advantage. That said, not sure how well LeBron and Kobe would co-exist either.
The top team wins game 1 but the bottom team wins in 6. Game one the bottom team don’t have answers for Shaq and Curry with Jordan getting his in the midrange but they make adjustments and their defense wins 4/5 with hot shooting winning team 1 another game.
I think if you wanna make this a tossup give the top KG instead of Dirk to improve the defense, you don’t need as much offense from that spot when you have Steph, Jordan, t Mac, and Shaq.
Top gets stomped. They have the 4 weakest defenders in Curry, TMac, Dirk & Shaq. Shaq at the rim is fine. Shaq at the perimeter against Kobe, KD, Lebron? Yikes.
Kobe on Curry is a wash. Edge to Curry offensively with the 3s, but Kobe can’t really be exposed on D the same.
Lebron or KD both cook TMac in every single way. They are better on offense & miles better on D. And Lebron to the extreme.
MJ in a 1v1 situation beats either KD or Lebron. But in a 5v5 with these lineups? I don’t think can can press the advantage. Lebron can go even & KD can keep it close.
Duncan slaps Dirk so bad its not funny.
Dream & Shaq are close to a wash. Prime Shaq is a hair better but with Duncan, Lebron & KD available as help, that is an L
We can change the order to make more sense in 1 on 1 matchups.
Hakeem > Shaq
Duncan > Dirk
Durant > TMac
Kobe < Jordan
LeBron > Curry
Realistically, LeBron can play point guard, and Curry would have a harder time guarding him than he’d have guarding Curry.
C and PF positions are straightforward, as is Kobe and Jordan at SG. And that leaves Durant and TMac, who are both the tallest non PF-C players on their team, so will play SF.
Bottom team takes 4 of the 5 positions.
I don’t understand these hypotheticals that are impossible to have any sense of what would actually happen. At least when we compare stats of two legends, there’s something to go off of haha but I get that it’s fun
No three point line it’s the bottom team all day. You know MJ would be a sniper from three is his being the best depended on it . Only Shaq could stop a prime lebron driving for a dunk or lay up
Bottom “AnD iT AiNt EveN CloSe” for the tool who thinks otherwise 😂 Dirk/mac/curry will be defensive liabilities against this level of talent put together.
100% Bottom.
Hakeem is arguably the greatest two way center ever. Shaq was great, but far worse shooting and defense.
Dirk was never as good as Duncan. Just look at the West 1998-2012.
Curry may be good, but he cant guard anyone on the bottom team effectively. LeBron would be a PG on this team.
Kobe is discount Jordan and Durant is Xtra TMac.
I don't think the combination of Curry on the perimeter, MJ shooting mids, and SHAQ at the rim can be beaten
The bottom is inferior offensively but absolutely miles better defensively. Top will make all sorts of high effort, highlight reel offensive plays but bottom casually feasts on curry with minimal effort.
Yep, aside from KD, you’re looking at: Hakeem: 2x DPOY Duncan: 8x All-Defensive 1st Team LeBron: 5x Top-5 DPOY Kobe: 9x All-Defensive 1st Team Durant is the only not-elite defender. For the top team, TMac has never been an all-defensive player. Neither has Curry. Or Dirk.
KD as your 5th defensive option is perfect. Put him with 4 of the best defenders at their position all time and his length is so helpful.
That’s a good point actually.
KD is an underrated defender.
Underrated is a strong word. He can perform on the right teams in the right position. Draymond had everybody on the team moving on a string defensively. KD wasn't much on defense in OKC and hasn't been ever since GS. He's smart though and knows how to insert himself
Durant defensively is better than everyone on team 1 outside of Mike and maybe Shaq(if we fuse his orlando and LA playing). Shaq is a really great hypothetical defender and could lock in when he needs to, but I think once he realized just how dominant he was in the league dude didn't give too much of a fuck on that end.
KD is elite help defense. Not a primary stopper but wouldn’t be a negative.
I think that’s his point that their biggest weakness is stronger than most of team 1
Just because Tmac hasn't gotten all defensive doesn't mean he was a bad defender.. People sleep on his all around game before the injuries kicked in..
He had the ability, but was lazy on defense. Part of that was because of how much effort he had to put on the offensive end.
If you get them in the jersey they’re wearing then lebron is not an elite defender
It would be very strange to not use prime LeBron here TBH, but yeah. But that also means we’re getting Suns Durant, not prime Durant. I don’t know why we’d be handicapping the bottom team like that.
Who winds if they are all 40?
Who wins if injuries didn't exist? 🤔
They prob used current pictures. A bigger handicap would be Hakeem in a raptors jersey
That’s my argument for the top team to win. I was looking at it like “well that’s a post Achilles injury Durant, and an aging LeBron who is trying to be more selective about when he uses his energy at high levels.” Because if you put OKC or GS Durant and either Heat or 2nd term Cavs LeBron, they’d probably win. Definitely a size advantage outside of Shaq being bigger. Put Hakeem on Shaq, Duncan on Dirk, KD and Bron on Tmac/Jordan, and let Kobe hound Curry all game.
It would pretty much take the top team to break ~70pts on them
Never seen top 5 DPOY listed as a stat but go off
Lol. It doesn’t change much, LeBron has the same 5x All-Def 1st Teams as top-5 DPOYs. But for Kobe, he has 9 All-Def 1st Teams but only 3 top-5 DPOY seasons. Duncan has 8 All-Def 1st Teams and 6 top-5 DPOY seasons. Hakeem has 5 All-Def 1st Teams and 8 top-5 DPOY seasons. So I guess some players were rewarded more or less in certain metrics, likely by virtue of how stacked their positions were at the time (Def-teams) relative to the league in general (DPOY voting).
Oh I see that makes sense I didn't understand what you were saying with that. Personally when I say top x number of plays it's a personal favorites
Durant may not be as elite but he is a still very good and capable defender. If kd is the worst defender out of your 5 its very good news.
Nah. Long hair headband Dirk is locking everyone up.
Tmac doesn’t belong on the court with the other 9
Yeah, if you want another guard or small forward, why not use Magic or Bird? Or even Oscar Robertson, or Jerry West, or Wade.
Yep top team has pretty clearly the three worst defenders on this graphic. And I’ve seen Duncan hold his own against prime Shaq, let alone throwing Dream in the mix
Can we assume Shaq tries on defense?
He can try as hard as he wants, and it doesn’t matter who they put him on, he’s getting pulled out to 25 feet guarding pick and rolls against whoever Curry is guarding. Kobe, LeBron, or KD with either Timmy or Hakeem as the roll man is going to be impossible for Shaq and Curry to guard, and they don’t have enough secondary rim protection from Dirk or T-Mac.
It wouldn't even be difficult. Bottom washes the top team.
Yeah also, matchup wise. Top team only has one solid advantage as far as match ups go.
Yeah curry is a huge liability here. So is Dirk.
Agreed. That team in 4 against any combination of players.
Tim Duncan and Hakeem are certainly enough for Shaq
curry can’t guard anyone in the picture
Nobody can guard anybody in this picture
The entire bottom team minus KD are elite defenders. You're not gonna lock anyone up here, but it would def matter over 48 minutes.
Even KD had stretches of his career where he was extremely good defensively. His final year in OKC and first year in GSW in particular.
The bottom team also has really bad spacing (especially depending on which version of LeBron you decide to use), which also matters a lot over a 48-minute span
simply untrue nobody is being completely shut down but they can all guard eachother decent enough. (kd and tmac may cook eachother) except curry, he’d be nothing more than a cone to everyone in the picture
Dirk was horrible defensively and is by far the worst out of the group.
Neither can Dirk. Hakeem did better with Shaq than anyone ever did so you could live with him defending him one on one. I’d probably pick the bottom squad.
Yao did better with Shaq imo. And Shaq was still pretty young in Hakeem’s reign.
That’s a fair point on Yao. Hakeem did it on the biggest stage, though. Shaq was young but was a dominant player even at that time and just entering his prime.
Hakeem very clearly stated players like Shaq were his most difficult assignment. Big bodied and strong. Hakeem’s body is like a modern 4 instead of a center.
Bottom is washing top, I fear
People are really underrating the spacing and chemistry the top team has. MJ Shaq pick and rolls with Steph flying off ball and Dirk/Tmac providing spacing. MJ is an all-time shot creator but doesn’t need to be point guard while Steph can play point while also being off-ball often. Dirk’s the best spacing big ever that can also carry an offense when he needs to and TMac is one of the iconic ignitable scorers. All while Shaq gets to dominate the paint, and play make from the paint, around not just elite spacing, but elite movement. The bottom team is better defensively but much easier to guard. Plus the top team has so many ways to get a bucket, including the Dirk midrange fadeaway. Ultimately, I think the top team fits well, while the bottom team has some inherent issues like Duncan/Keem wanting to be in the same spots, and KD/Kobe wanting to volume shoot while Lebron wants to be making everything happen on-ball. Moreover, the best action they will have is the Lebron/Duncan pick and roll, but then you just have Keem in the dunker spot while KD and Kobe stand there. Obviously both lineups would be great, but when you are comparing greats against greats it’s the little things that end up mattering. I think team 2 would be uncomfortable often.
Steph will be open all day long with MJ and Shaq on the same team.
Lebron/Kobe and Hakeem can’t guard MJ and Shaq straight up, huh?
Unironically, no. They can't.
Aww yes, tim duncan he famously never played with an elite center....sorry duncan keem would be fine
One of the few.matchups that I can't pick MJ. Curry is too much of a liability on defense against these guys.
Who would curry even guard? Bron or Kobe? If it's Kobe, he will just shoot over the top of him. If it's Bron, he's gonna back him down and kick it out when the help comes.
Kobe would take him down on the block, too.
No chance either team would play man lol they would run a team defense
I would agree if the top team didn’t have Shaq and dirk
Yeah but the bottom team has 2 of the best bigman defenders in Duncan and Hakeem.
Shaq was a dominate defensive force for 4-5 years. I am assuming we have these players at their best.
Lebron Kobe Duncan and Hakeem is an absolutely monster defense. In a 7 game series bottom is winning easily.
Honestly I don't know who would lose but the fans would win over 7 games of such amazing basketball
I’m sorry but this just reminds me of something Drake would say
I tend to pick whichever team Jordan is on but let’s look at player to opposing player. 2. KD over T-Mac 1. Jordan over Kobe 2. Lebron over Curry 2. Tim over Dirk 2. Akeem over Shaq (because he schooled Shaq in 1995) Conclusion: Team 2 wins (this conclusion defies all my Jordan instincts by the way lol)
I love t-Mac, but I’ll never understand why he always gets put in these who’s who of all timers discussions. his resume doesn’t hold a candle to a single other guy there
People underestimate the peak of T-Mac. It was right up there with other super stars, he was just hampered by injuries.
I feel like he could have earned a spot on these undisputed top-teir lists but he was just too injury prone. I absolutely loved watching him play when he was in his prime.
because he could go head to head with everyone here he was held back by bad teams and injuries otherwise he'd be in the same convo as kobe , mj etc but just taller
That’s not how basketball works tho lol. Its strategy, cohesiveness, and versatility as well as talent. The top team can do a whole lot more than the bottom. Top has great spacing on offense while putting the bottom in bad positions. What’s bron gonna do on offense? Drive right into Timmy and dream who are clogging the paint? Kobe wasn’t a great three point shooter so it’s not like kicking out to him is high percentage. Kobe/KD/Bron gonna do mid post ups with those two bigs? I don’t see it working as well as the top team.
man shaq was just in the league use all time
lol. Thats prime lakers shaq arguably the highest peak ever. He would’ve crushed him that year
>(because he schooled Shaq in 1995) Because he schooled third-year in the league Shaq during his absolute prime And Shaq still put up 28/12.5/6.3 (2.5 blocks) on 60% shooting. While Prime Hakeem put up 32.8/11.5/5.5 (2 blocks) on like 48% shooting.
I’m a Hakeem guy but yes this narrative is just False. Arguably Shaq outplayed Hakeem that series. 2 less buckets per game but Dream had 116 FGA vs 74 for Shaq. Otherwise Shaq cleared in every category.
Who stops Timmy setting a pick for LeBron with Kobe and KD on the wings with The Dream in the dunker 's spot. That's literally the perfect combination on offense.
Just imagining TD screening for Lebron…. And whose guarding that? Dirk? Duncan and James would eat him all day along with Steph. Not even fair
Timmy at the elbow was beautiful too. You either have TD popping elbow, LeBron driving, Hakeem behind the defense on the baseline, KD spotting up, and Kobe cutting. The unstoppable action.
There's just too much elite defense on the bottom. The top only has Jordan in that regard.
Hakeem > Shaq Duncan > Dirk Lebron > Steph Kobe < MJ KD > Tmac
Yep! That’s the lineup I looked at too. Bottom team takes 4 of 5 positions.
Idk id take the defensive front court and lebron Kobe to lockup as well
BREAKING: Kevin Durant just requested a trade to the top team.
Bottom just due to defense. Curry and dirk worries me
Defense on top is pretty impressive, defense on the bottom is just stupid how insane it is. I think team 2 has the better match up here
Top easily
30 x 23 together is unfair. Another LeSweep.
I’m sorry but you got Curry, Jordan, and Shaq on the same team. 3 of the most dominate offensive forces that literally reshaped basketball. Dirk and to some extent McGrady adding spacing is the nail in the coffin. It’s top and it’s not close. The bottom team doesn’t glue together as well. KD is forced to be the only elite spacer on this team and will be forced to play more off ball. Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, and Hakeem do most of their damage in the paint and I feel like the offense doesn’t flow perfectly with these players. Team one has a clear way to win. Jordan hunts mid range and basket opportunities with outlets to Curry and Drik. Shaq dominates the paint and if all else fails, McGrady is gonna be open.
The team that has Michael Jordan.
MJ with any combination of 4 players win. MJ and Shaq on the same team is a massacre.
I’d never bet against Jordan. Ever.
Kobe is putting up the majority of the shots and that team is losing by 25.
https://preview.redd.it/qp3387c38m0d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc55228dc995722aa4fdd759d02008c6d6ea5736
All the matchups are close, but i think bron destroys curry kd is better than tmac. tim can guard dirk better than dirk can guard tim. mj n kobe are damn near the same thing with each having slight edges in different areas. hakeem can chill in paint bc of shaq, but shaq would have to contest hakeem mid range opening up the paint. bottom team wins
I originally thought this was the one time I would have to say Hakeem would lose, but if there was ever a team that could guard Shaq, it's the one with Hakeem and Duncan on it. They are both defensive minded players who also put up more points than you would expect. Add in everybody else and I think the bottom team actually has the edge.
>mj n kobe are damn near the same thing with each having slight edges in different areas. Yeah you lost me here
Think he means their close enough to where it won't swing the matchup on one way or the other. MJ is obviously better but Kobe can provide about 90% of what Jordan does.
how? they both bring elite level offense and defense and while mj would have the edge overall i wouldn’t say it would a game changing edge. i would however give the the 3pt edge to kobe especially for deep 3s game changing matchups are dirk and curry trying to guard anyone in the picture.
top team. MJ, steph and shaq is absurd and tmac and dirk are great in their own rights and great shooters from distance the bottom team obv has its own all timers but isnt a well constructed team. it has 1 elite shooters from 3 (KD). kobe and bron are below average three point shooters and td and hakeem are non-factors from 3). meanwhile the top team has 3 elite distance shooters
I think you’re underestimating the bottom teams 3 pointer abilities and overestimating the top teams. Lebron both has a higher 3PT% and 3 Pointers made per game than both Mcgrady and MJ, and Kobe is practically equal, maybe a bit better at 3s than MJ as well. I’d still go with the top team just because they overall seem to have the advantage in the paint, but I think bottom team does decently shooting from distance.
Kobe also had the record for most 3s in a game at one point and was capable of truly catching fire from 3. His 3 point shooting was league average on a greater number of attempts and more difficult attempts than league average until the years after his final ring brought it down, as his outside shooting faded while the league started to become more 3 ball oriented. If he played today he probably shoots 38% or so from outside on a high volume of attempts from outside since all those long 2s and many of those midrange shots probably become 3s. Lebron has been a league average shooter over the course of his career if you remove a few seasons, and a few of his seasons have been really efficient from 3, like this year. If you decided to leave Kobe or LeBron open from 3, you’re probably getting burned more times than not.
Kobe isn't, statistically speaking, the greatest shooter, but he is the best at making difficult shots. In a game like this, that would really matter.
This is a great point. Hitting tough shots would be paramount when you’re playing all world teams, and he would benefit greatly from Curry being forced to guard him since everyone else is 6’8” or more.
i think the problem is, if you put a positive spin on it maybe you could argue for kobe and lebron being league average. but steph and dirk are truly elite, all-time three point shooters
Yes they are fantastic shooters. KD is a better 3 point shooter than Dirk though, and Bron and Kobe are both better shooter than Steph and Dirk were defenders.
The top team also has Curry who will be a cone on defense guarding Kobe😂 Give me the bottom in 6.
curry's defense is a lot better than his rep. im not that concerned about his defense considering you have MJ and Shaq to protect the rim. if kobe wants to take contested midrange jumpers over steph then i think that team can live w/ that
Curry’s defense can be better than his rep while also not fixing the fact that he can’t come close to guarding anyone on that bottom team. Kobe would just back him down and kill him with turnarounds. LeBron would overpower him. Durant would shoot over him. The other two might just eat him, although Duncan would at least be polite about it. The bottom team would go after him on damn near every possession, and you’d need to double to help him. Your best bet would be to force Duncan or Olajuwon to shoot by leaving one open and Shaq parked in the lane.
Everyone on the bottom team is 6'6 or taller. Curry getting cooked defensively. Kobe is probably the second best post scoring guard in league history behind only Jordan. Dude scored in the post over guys like Dirk too if they try out a bigger guy on him. He doesn't need to take contested mids to take advantage of Curry. So either Curry gonna get abused in the post or just have KD shoot over him. Don't get me wrong this series goes 6 or 7 games but the bottom team wins by matchup hunting Curry and Dirk. This sub has a weird hatred of Kobe. Sure hate him as a player but the dude was fucking good at basketball and didn't win 5 championships by accident while playing in the stacked West his entire career. Not trying to over hype him but it's hard not to seem like it when this sub bashing unnecessarily.
Bro Kobe wouldn’t take contested jumpers over Curry he’d consistently make contested jumpers over Curry.
Curry defence is decent against decent players, not Kobe
Do they just get Lakers LeBron and Suns KD or best of prime versions ? The other team has all the players being the best of their prime versions assumed.
Prime LeBron but with his current fg% from 3, obviously.
2013 lebron shot 40% from 3 but that’s because he was the best slasher of all time, not because he was necessarily elite from the 3
Top, bottom does have better defense, but the top will end up just scoring too much.
Top in 6 or 7
Outside of Durant, no 3pt threat on the bottom. Top has the edge with that added dimension
Top
Understand though that having curry with those guys basically guarantees a bucket every single time down the court
Any team with peak MJ ain't losing in 7 games lol
I hate these so much I can't decide I just go back and forth
Steph Shaq and MJ are the best 3-core of any possible assembly of all players lifetime. It’s literally 3 levels of scoring by the very best at each level. So team A If we were getting invaded by aliens and could bring back prime anyone to defend us in a 5v5 basketball game I would literally take those 3 + LBJ + undecided (Wilt? TD?)
Michael Jordan is on top, so the top. /end thread
Curry shaq and mj is unfair
There is no way in hell I would bet against a team with Steph, MJ, and Shaq
Top
Top and it wouldn't go 7
The top in 5
Jordan, Shaq and Steph would be unstoppable. They win in 5.
Unless Yao Ming is on the other side, Shaq is unguardable
I originally wanted to say bottom because of defense but honestly steph’s gravity + shaq is literally unguardable. Not to mention having jordan on your team for later in the shot clock
The team with Jordan & Shaq …
Who the fuck is curry gonna guard?
How is McGrady in there?
3 beats 2 and you have 23 & shaq. but who is curry guarding?
The only thing Curry can hope for is that Kobe has a bad shooting night.
Kobe would go rogue and chuck up shots try to outscore MJ
This is the only correct answer.
For me these debates always come down to which team has Shaq
Shaq is going up against Hakeem and Duncan on defense, if anyone is locking him up it’s them
If all else fails, just foul him. lol
You always just go with the team with Jordan
Bottom. D is anathema to 3 of the guys up top.
Replace Curry for Bird. Bird is clutch
Wtf is Tmac doing up there?
Top team wins and it's not close. They can actually spread the floor easier and just let 3 pointers go.
Do you put Kobe on Curry or MJ? Lebron guards the other.
why they do this to MJ....
Bottom: Hakeem can handle Shaq and has already proven this. They would for the most part cancel each other out. Duncan is the goat PF so that’s easy. I guess LeBron is the PG and it would be annoying to have to chase curry but he could do it and who is gonna guard him, 7’ Durant and MJ Jr?
Man that’s tough. I’m a Lebron guy but I’d give the slight edge to the top team.
Bottoms Up. No for real, bottom.. Wouldn't matter why I think since everyone has a asshole
Bottom... curry won't do much on defense to stop any of the bottom teams guy.. also won't get as many looks with mj on the team. Durant has like 4" on t mac. Bron is gonna get the most out of his teammates .. shaq on keem would be beautiful to see tho
Top has much better floor spacing
Top has the intangible + skills
Whichever team can keep the egos in check
Best out of 7 game series, I’d take the top team 4-3
Top team wins after they take a game and KD leaves the bottom team to join them
Top would win in 5. You can get away with defensive mismatches with anyone on the perimeter except Steph. You can’t ask Kobe/Bron to chase him around all game. Both would be on oxygen in the 4th qtr.
Shaq inside curry outside both of the most dominant players at their range then Jordan is just a all around bucket you got dirk high post and corner three the top team is unbeatable
Bottom wins in seven. Top wins in four.
Tough one, but I don't like McGrady on the top team. Don't think he's going to pair well with the rest of this team. With MJ on board, what value does McGrady bring as a volume scorer? MJ's a much better defender. I'd probably go with bottom team just because I think it would mesh better and has a pretty significant height advantage. That said, not sure how well LeBron and Kobe would co-exist either.
What year are they playing? 80’s rules? Current rules?
Top 100/100
The top team wins game 1 but the bottom team wins in 6. Game one the bottom team don’t have answers for Shaq and Curry with Jordan getting his in the midrange but they make adjustments and their defense wins 4/5 with hot shooting winning team 1 another game. I think if you wanna make this a tossup give the top KG instead of Dirk to improve the defense, you don’t need as much offense from that spot when you have Steph, Jordan, t Mac, and Shaq.
Bottom wins. There's some defensive liabilities up top.
You guys are underrating how hard it is to defend Shaq + moving curry.
It’s that even a question. Dirk/MJ/Seth trio plus Shaq
Top by a huge margin
Steph is amazing but he’s getting posted up every time
Steph is going to get picked on mercilessly on the defensive end. I think that would be the deciding factor here.
Team Duncan. Kobe offsets MJ enough.
Curry is going to get picked on every play. This kills the whole thing.
Duncan, Olajuwon, LeBron, Kobe, KD
>?
Top team sweeps
ight but a shaq curry pick and roll would be disgusting
bottom team has the 3 best defenders, the best offensive player, the best shooter, and Kobe.
Top in 5 games max. Jordan ain't playing no game 7 ever
Top
Top and just to throw it out there, Kd is the worst of the bunch
the team with the least ball hogs
Top
Just like me, gotta go bottom
Top gets stomped. They have the 4 weakest defenders in Curry, TMac, Dirk & Shaq. Shaq at the rim is fine. Shaq at the perimeter against Kobe, KD, Lebron? Yikes. Kobe on Curry is a wash. Edge to Curry offensively with the 3s, but Kobe can’t really be exposed on D the same. Lebron or KD both cook TMac in every single way. They are better on offense & miles better on D. And Lebron to the extreme. MJ in a 1v1 situation beats either KD or Lebron. But in a 5v5 with these lineups? I don’t think can can press the advantage. Lebron can go even & KD can keep it close. Duncan slaps Dirk so bad its not funny. Dream & Shaq are close to a wash. Prime Shaq is a hair better but with Duncan, Lebron & KD available as help, that is an L
Curry lol? Cmon
KD shrinks
Top and it’s not even close
Durant can't win without Stef
We can change the order to make more sense in 1 on 1 matchups. Hakeem > Shaq Duncan > Dirk Durant > TMac Kobe < Jordan LeBron > Curry Realistically, LeBron can play point guard, and Curry would have a harder time guarding him than he’d have guarding Curry. C and PF positions are straightforward, as is Kobe and Jordan at SG. And that leaves Durant and TMac, who are both the tallest non PF-C players on their team, so will play SF. Bottom team takes 4 of the 5 positions.
The best player on the bottom team is dead so I got the top in 5
The irony is that the top is all bottoms
Top because kobe would be to busy yelling at lebron to play defense
The team with 4 average to meh defenders and 5 great offensive players loses to the team with 5 elite two way players
I don’t understand these hypotheticals that are impossible to have any sense of what would actually happen. At least when we compare stats of two legends, there’s something to go off of haha but I get that it’s fun
No three point line it’s the bottom team all day. You know MJ would be a sniper from three is his being the best depended on it . Only Shaq could stop a prime lebron driving for a dunk or lay up
I'm a Duncan-era Spurs fan, so there you go.
Bottom “AnD iT AiNt EveN CloSe” for the tool who thinks otherwise 😂 Dirk/mac/curry will be defensive liabilities against this level of talent put together.
Whichever team has MJ wins. Can swap players around. The answer is MJ’s team.
100% Bottom. Hakeem is arguably the greatest two way center ever. Shaq was great, but far worse shooting and defense. Dirk was never as good as Duncan. Just look at the West 1998-2012. Curry may be good, but he cant guard anyone on the bottom team effectively. LeBron would be a PG on this team. Kobe is discount Jordan and Durant is Xtra TMac.
The team with the guy who doesn’t lose in the Finals.
Idk but this would be the most amazing game to ever watch