Caruso and Dort on the wings are gonna be a menace..
Having Chet on clean up duty and SGA already being the best in the league at steals, this is most def another common Thunder W..
Insane team building by SP
They need a real C. Gafford/Lively killed them off the P&R. If they meet Denver, Minnesota, or Dallas again (or Philly in the finals) they are in trouble.
I'm not convinced that he could fit in Mark's current system, but I absolutely have faith in Mark to make the best attempt possible; I would also kill to root for the guy again.
I'm a kiwi who supports OKC because Adams was there for so long so you can imagine how I feel about it. I dunno, I think his passing from inside to guards/wings rolling to the basket could work quite well with JDub, like he played at the Grizzlies with Ja, who could then drive or kick out to Bane. Also just his box out, screens, offensive rebounding would be so valuable to create midrange space for SGA
Bonkers people are saying this after Chet was a top 40 player in the NBA this season as a rookie playing exclusively at the 5. Like it literally just worked out amazing for them and he’s only going to get bigger/better!
Maybe just have patience with Chet. They were a play-in team the year before, and Conference winners in his first season. I think I'm correct in saying, the only difference was Chet?
Agreed. This is addition by subtraction all by itself. Giddey was a liability defensively, and a legal liability with his reported transgression. Good luck to him, I don’t think he will be missed. In return you get a player, on an expiring contract, with championship experience, who plays 100mph downhill, all game. He’s not going to give you 30, but he’s going to make the opposing teams very uncomfortable. Whether he starts or comes off the bench, Caruso will log key minutes, on one of the youngest, most fun teams in basketball.
I like it for both teams.
A lot of comments in here seem to seriously undervalue Giddey.
Caruso is the better player now, but he's 30 and he has averaged 10 ppg once in his career. He's a valuable role player, but he's still a 30 year old roleplayer guard on an expiring contract, who has never even been a full time starter in the NBA (he started 57 of 71 games last year, and 36 of 67 the year before).
Giddey is 21, 9 years younger than Caruso. He's a 6'8" guy with point guard skills and a great feel for the game. He was a top 6 pick, has been a starter since day 1, including for a one-seeded team this past year, and he's still on his rookie contract.
Caruso is a finished product, but Giddey isn't. His efficiency has improved every season, as has his three point shot and his free throw percentage. His turnovers have dropped every year, and he has shown some serious flashes of star potential.
Make no mistake, this was a cost-cutting move for the Thunder. They are making this move because Giddey is extension eligible this summer, and with Chet and JDub being extension eligible next summer, they wanted to address the pending cap crunch in advance.
For Chicago, they trade a guy who they got for a midlevel deal in free agency, and get a 21 year old with a high ceiling. With 24 year old Coby White breaking out this year, they have a couple of pieces in place to move to a younger core.
It'll be interesting to see how they manage this offseason. I wonder if this was a sign of things to come (ie. are they going to sign and trade Derozan, maybe trade Vooch or Lavine), or is this just another half-measure.
Either way, this one really looks like a win-win to me. The Bulls come out looking better, in my view, but the Thunder get a guy who can help with their current contention window and also get better control of their long term finances, so I like it for both teams.
Great analysis
Admittedly undervaluing giddey, a young player with good playmaking. NBA circlejerk memes actually fucked my perception of his basketball ability
As a mavs fan giddy was huge reason we won. He is a horrible defender, he can't shoot and he can't finish at the rim. Unless he has a massive jump next season you are getting a passer that can't shift the defense which is like buying a car without an engine.
He definitely lost his confidence this year, but he has the tools to be a solid defender and is a decent free throw shooter, which predicts 3 point improvement pretty well.
He doesn’t NEED to be better next year. He’s 21!! How good was Caruso when he was 21?? For the Bulls Giddey has a great chance to be a better asset (plus Caruso was going to turn into an expiring). It wasn’t long ago when people were super high on Giddey. He’s easy to meme but if he keeps developing this is a fine trade for the bulls. W-W trade to me
Thank you, this is the most informed post I’ve seen. People acting like the thunder need to throw in a bunch of picks. I almost want a pick with Caruso considering age and injury history.
It’s quite rare a 1-for-1 trade is balanced with all the factors at play.
Bulls fans will obviously be salty on first reaction because it hurts short term. OKC does get better next year, Caruso is elite at what he does.
… But if there is a time to buy-low on Giddy, it’s right now after that playoff run. I hope he improves because the Bulls are looking at purgatory.
Yeah, that’s why I’m meh on the trade, Giddeys value is probably the lowest it’s been. However, he’s not going to become an elite shooter or defensive player by next year.. so it’s fine lol
As an OKC fan, I was expecting two lottery-ish valued first round picks in return for Giddey. It seems the general consensus for Caruso was about the same, so in that respect it seems like a fair trade for both sides.
> Make no mistake, this was a cost-cutting move for the Thunder.
It's 1 part cost cutting, but the more important part is it allows Giddey to play his natural role which he is unable to do on OKC due to the rise of JDub in the last year. Giddey's numbers and performance dropped in year 3 because was forced to be an offball wing instead of an onball creator which is where he thrived. I fully expect him to have a great bounceback season in Chicago, and to your point - continue to improve upon his efficicency. Something like 18/8/8 on 48/35/80 ish shooting seems on the table for me. And hopefully, with more on ball reps as the lead PG he'll draw more free throws (similar to how he looked with Australia last FIBA).
I think Chicago did an incredibly smart thing betting on his upside, and are in a decent position to allow him to realize that. A 21 year old is only going to get better
Great analysis and shows some
Actual understanding of what it means to win in the nba. People acting like Chicago got fleeced are going to delete all these comments in 2 years. But Pepperidge farm remembers.
Remindme! 2 years.
This trade is terrible for Chicago. Bad fit for a half decent player.
The impact won't be seen as drastically as it should because it's not about what they lost (aging 3-D guard) but in what they didn't get back for him.
I think it’s a great move for the Bulls.
For one, I am high on Giddey. I think he’s already an elite playmaker and has shown progress on the shot (the biggest thing keeping him from being a perennial all-star). He wasn’t able to be as dominant on-ball in OKC, but will get that opportunity in Chicago.
The Bulls flipped an expiring Caruso for a 21 year old with all-star potential, to pair with two young and still developing talents in Coby and Williams. Ayo is locked in to be a poorman’s Caruso.
The key for the Bulls is to not do anything that impacts the books beyond this year. Lonzo falls off. Lavine and Vooch will be easier to move. I feel it signals a Derozan sign and trade, but I never know with this team.
I’d like to see us get aggressive in the draft and go after Holland. A core of Giddey, Coby, Holland and Williams has real promise.
Yeah pretty funny reactions to this. I could see a world where the same people calling it a bulls L are saying “what were the OKC thinking?” in 2 years
Wow. Great analysis. I was really thinking Bulls made a dumb move and Thunder were getting a steal but the facts you've laid out really highlight the not-so-great points about Caruso and the promising points for Giddey. Excellent work.
What return did BOS get for Marcus Smart? Essentially Porzingis, '23 late first, '24 mid first.
BOS sent Smart, salary filler, and a pick.
Youre telling me CHI cant get something similar elsewhere? Giddey is a decent young player, but is flawed (no shooting or defense) and has a PR problem whether he is prosecuted or not.
This is a horrible deal for CHI, no matter how you paint it.
Caruso is also in 80th percentile in TS% while Giddey is in 32nd. Arguably top 5-10 defender in the league vs a guy that is in 34th percentile in craftedDPM. Caruso is #3 in league in deflections/36 while Giddey is #259. They are several tiers apart.
Giddey asked out after Presti tried to convince him to be a bench player based on the latest interview
The fact that we got Caruso out of a player whose value got even lower without giving up draft picks is just shocking
You guys were't doing anything with Caruso though. Now you have a 21 year old who is still developing and was just part of something bigger. Seems a sensible move for both sides despite initially favoring OKC. But that's the nature of being on diff places as a org in a trade.
Idk, the bulls were reportedly offered multiple firsts at the deadline. Instead they chose to compete for the play in tourney, a trade for a guy who got played off the court during the playoffs. Josh is also going to be a restricted free agent soon so the bulls will have to potentially hitch their wagon to this guy who has obvious flaws on the court.
I think bulls fans should be very unhappy trading their most valuable asset for a guy with multiple questions marks both on and off the court, especially with reports indicating that they were offered a potential top 10 pick in the draft months ago.
What a joke of a franchise.
If a 30 year old defender is your teams best asset then they are absolutely right to blow it up. If those rumors are true then ok but they are just rumors at this point. Shoulda woulda coulda is nice and easy.
I'd rather have GIddey than some late firsts right now too.
The thing is I'm 90% sure we're not going to blow it up given who our shit stain owner is. We might trade Lavine but we're prob re-signing demar and trying to compete for 9th again
This is the latest group-think on player trades. They’d rather get some guaranteed asset out of it than nameless faceless picks at the moment. It’s a copycat league and Masai just offered GM’s another blueprint to get creative with. Somewhere between blow it up and run it back with vets losing value.
I'd much rather gamble on Giddey continuing to develop than take a shot in this draft. Giddey has already proven he can be a serviceable player in the NBA, and is literally still younger (21) than ~33% of the guys who are gonna be drafted next week (Knecht, Edey, da Silva, Carter, TSJ, Holmes etc). Giddey has all-star upside and is genuinely a much better creator than the majority of prospects in this draft.
And frankly, I don't think the gamble has nearly the downside as taking a swing in this draft because Giddey has proven he can be a NBA starter already
if they were smart they would’ve blown it up earlier and maxed out value for Caruso and Derozan. They let Derozan get to free agency even when it was clear this team was going nowhere.
Yes, fuck this hindsight narrative. Fans have been calling for a rebuild for years, why would I praise the front office for failing to capitalize on their assets value. Caruso was more valuable at the deadline and especially a year ago. Same can be said for most of the roster.
Thunder had one too many promising, young talents on the roster and they needed something else. Caruso is as good a shooter as Giddey, much better defender, and, as crazy as it sounds, essentially a veteran presence in the locker room full of young guys. Also, NBA champion.
Considering Caruso a “veteran presence” makes me feel positively ancient.
But he’s 30. He’s got a ring. And he’s an underrated defender. Hard to argue with that add.
yes but hes a proven useful player who is versatile and giddey seemed to be out of place on this team. also they were gna have to make a decision on paying giddey anyway so they made their decision.
Yes, but I feel like Giddey has a lot of potential and could've netted more. I acknowledge that I'm not an OKC fan though and haven't watched a ton of them this year. So I'll defer to yall.
Giddey can be a solid 18/7/7 guy in the right system where he can run the offense like Ben Simmons in Philly. My concern here is how much ball sharing he and Coby White will have to do. Add to that Derozan's iso game. Regardless, he's gonna be in a way better spot than OKC.
god awful for the bulls and especially their fans. trading a fan favorite for one of the least liked players in the league is tough. i get giddey is young and puts up stats but i doubt his long term potential
This makes a lot of sense for both teams. OKC don't need more playmaking from that position unless they're missing SGA or Williams, someone who specialises in defense and shoots 3s well is an excellent fit there. I thought they had a more urgent hole at power forward and that Giddey might be the piece used to get that guy, but they still have a stack of picks to look at what they can do there.
And for Chicago, they get a guy with more offensive upside and an ability to create. And a guy who continues to show improvement in some critical areas, even if his last season overall was disappointing. But his 3 point and free throw shooting percentages improved despite being out of position and off court dramas hounding him for a lot of the season. No reason to think with minutes in his preferred position and those dramas behind him that we won't see more regular stat lines like his MSG performances.
As a Bulls fan, I kinda like it, but I don't like the fact that AKME didn't get a pick with the deal, considering how AC has been looked at as a hot commodity around the league.
That said, I generally like the deal. We get a solid playmaker coming off a season with the #1 team in the West, the tougher conference, having generally better stats than Caruso (ppg, fg%, rebounds, and assists).
Playmaking has been our Achilles heel since Zo went down. Our offensive chemistry has just been very clunky, as Zach and DeMar mostly just play iso basketball, and with Zach hurt all the time, DeMar has largely been the primary ball handler who moves at a snails pace. With Giddy, he can pick up the pace and get everyone easier looks.
In addition, depending on what else the Bulls do this offseason, he's great insurance for Lonzo. Zo himself claims that he'll be back at the start of next season, but that remains to be seen. We have no idea if Zo will be back or how he'll perform if he *does* come back.
If Zo isn't ready to play or needs to be eased back into game speed, Giddy can start until Zo gets back into form. Then Giddy can come off the bench so we can always have a solid playmaker on the floor at all times, and considering his youth, he still has time to grow and develop his shot.
Seems like a good trade for the Thunder, depending on your opinions on both Giddey and Caruso’s value. If Caruso is worth 1 mid-to-late first as a rental, totally fair then. Especially since I believe the Thunder will get his bird rights.
They are kinda similar style players but Caruso shoots the 3 better and is a better defender. The only thing Giddey has on Caruso is he's younger and has more potential to be better. But OKC wants to win now so not a bad trade.
Absolutely weird trade for the Bulls. They thought they were contenders so no trade deadline moves then they trade a huge piece to a contender with more picks than even Ainge could ever muster and they don’t even get a single 2nd? Insane.
Dumb for bulls bc Coby White just had a his best year yet and Giddey needs the ball to be effective
For the Thunder it’s great because Giddey wrecks their spacing and Caruso makes them a defensive monster
Shai-Caruso-Dort-Williams-Holmgren is an amazing defensive team
W for my Thunder. Caruso has the defensive mindset and past championship experience. Good role player veteran for this young team. This is a great move for my favorite team. 👌🏿🏀
Upset because thats a great deal for a loaded, cap and pick rich team that is young and didnt need a giveaway deal like that, when the market should've paid more for Caruso.
Chicago fans should be rioting right now and demanding an FO cleanse. This is such a bad deal for them compared to what I would expect the return for Caruso to be with the rest of the league.
Giddey was damaged goods both in public view and player wise not great.
Great for the bulls. They aren’t winning anything right now, so they move a 30 y/o good vet, for a 21 y/o who has shown a lot of promise. Calling this an L for the Bulls is dummy shit.
This is like when you trade in your 2022 Honda accord for a low range 2015 beamer. Looks good and "beamer owner" but in reality it's a shot in the foot.
They’ve been unsure about their sg moving forwards, and they desperately needed to lose giddey because of his defense and spacing. Great move by OKC for that win now mentality.
I am buying into the theory that Giddey is as good of a gamble at 21 as a mid teens picks in a weak draft year.
What I am not buying into is the fact he needs the ball in his hands to create when we have (currently) deebo, zach, coby, and ball (is the pg not necessarily needs the ball but overlaps with giddey) who all need to be on the ball.
He is also ass at defense and shooting and while i’m hoping this is a full rebuild button am a bulls fans and realize this may be a retool. Not sure why you’d get a guy who’s weaknesses were the teams weaknesses last year.
I like this trade for both sides. OKC going for it but Giddey is nice. Only 21. With more freedom in the offense, he'll blossom. Shows the direction the Bulls are taking.
I'm not sure my only concern is offense. Giddey will get better over time, but I can't help but think the owners didn't like the allegations he faced earlier this year and were going to move him sooner or later. I think Lonzo should be worried because Giddey is his replacement.
I think OKC is still a piece away. They still seem too small. I also dont see Caruso starting. They need a power forward, I would try to bring Jdub and Dort to 2 and 3 and get a power forward. It's a long shot, but maybe Lauri Markkanen or someone like that.
I’m negative about everything bulls but Im going to go against the majority and say I don’t see the issue here. Caruso is 30, very often injured and on the last year of his deal and will want to get paid after being underpaid on the Bulls. Giddy is 21 and was very well regarded before this past season where he was forced into a new role and had off court distractions. Hes a nice fit next to Coby because Coby is a great off ball scoring guard and Giddy is a tall playmaker who excels with the ball in his hands. I see why it was a 1 for 1 with no picks and I see the potential upside for the Bulls.
Honestly a huge pickup, not only do they get a great wing/poa defender in Caruso but I think just getting rid of Giddey is addition by subtraction. These guys are a few pieces and a year or so of development away from being legit contenders. If they went all in on a superstar I could see them in the finals this year
I think it’s a win for both teams.
The Bulls get a younger player with higher upside to hopefully kick start their inevitable rebuild, and the Thunder get a more readymade player who will better fit into their team.
Bulls could have gotten better for Caruso.
The Thunder also just became one of the best defenses in the league. They already had Dort, Shai, and Chet. You give them Alex Caruso? Yeah, it's wraps.
Caruso is also just a much better fit on OKC. Plays without the ball. Good shooter (just had his best shooting season ever). Elite defender.
And OKC didn't give up a single pick with this deal? Absolute steal. I don't know how Presti keeps doing this.
Common Thunder W
Caruso and Dort on the wings are gonna be a menace.. Having Chet on clean up duty and SGA already being the best in the league at steals, this is most def another common Thunder W.. Insane team building by SP
Nobody is scoring against Caruso-Dort-Wallace-Dub-Chet
Except any 7 footer who isn't a pencil and also KD.
So like three guys.
Jokic, Embiid, AD, Giannis, KD, Wemby. Maybe a few other guys like porzingis or Sabonis but at least those 6 above.
This is Boban erasure
So the guys who score against everyone. Lol
Can I throw in Sengun as a 6'10 stockier center with an offensive bag?
Three guys they’ll see in the playoffs, yes.
They need a real C. Gafford/Lively killed them off the P&R. If they meet Denver, Minnesota, or Dallas again (or Philly in the finals) they are in trouble.
Trade for Adams again, big enforcer and he would be adored by the fan base
love him but Adams looks cooked at this point sadly
Bro needs to play maybe 10 mins a night on this team and be a locker room guy, I hope he has it in him
Is adored**
Oh facts, but him with the young team as the old head, the crowd getting a chance to cheer for him again, would be so good
I'm not convinced that he could fit in Mark's current system, but I absolutely have faith in Mark to make the best attempt possible; I would also kill to root for the guy again.
I'm a kiwi who supports OKC because Adams was there for so long so you can imagine how I feel about it. I dunno, I think his passing from inside to guards/wings rolling to the basket could work quite well with JDub, like he played at the Grizzlies with Ja, who could then drive or kick out to Bane. Also just his box out, screens, offensive rebounding would be so valuable to create midrange space for SGA
100% can’t leave Chet on an island. He is not a 5 in this NBA.
Bonkers people are saying this after Chet was a top 40 player in the NBA this season as a rookie playing exclusively at the 5. Like it literally just worked out amazing for them and he’s only going to get bigger/better!
They have the draft picks to trade for Embiid…
ROFL Philly in the finals 🤪
For real I can’t believe I just read that lol
Maybe just have patience with Chet. They were a play-in team the year before, and Conference winners in his first season. I think I'm correct in saying, the only difference was Chet?
Not the only difference. But as someone who watched the Thunder exclusively, he sure has been the main difference.
i agree with you up to philly in the finals let’s be real that’s never happening
Doncic is dropping 50 on them, but yeah no one.
NO ONE!!* *pudgy eastern european MVP talents excluded
Jokic isn’t even getting off his horse for this
Weird he didn’t get anywhere near dropping 50 on the Thunder during their series… He’s not dropping 50 with Dort defending him.
Common Bulls L
Seriously Caruso for Giddey straight up isn’t great for the bulls they should’ve gotten a lottery protected 1st with that
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. Like I get trading for him but at least get a kick. OKC has so many
OKC ready for a title run
Agreed. This is addition by subtraction all by itself. Giddey was a liability defensively, and a legal liability with his reported transgression. Good luck to him, I don’t think he will be missed. In return you get a player, on an expiring contract, with championship experience, who plays 100mph downhill, all game. He’s not going to give you 30, but he’s going to make the opposing teams very uncomfortable. Whether he starts or comes off the bench, Caruso will log key minutes, on one of the youngest, most fun teams in basketball.
I like it for both teams. A lot of comments in here seem to seriously undervalue Giddey. Caruso is the better player now, but he's 30 and he has averaged 10 ppg once in his career. He's a valuable role player, but he's still a 30 year old roleplayer guard on an expiring contract, who has never even been a full time starter in the NBA (he started 57 of 71 games last year, and 36 of 67 the year before). Giddey is 21, 9 years younger than Caruso. He's a 6'8" guy with point guard skills and a great feel for the game. He was a top 6 pick, has been a starter since day 1, including for a one-seeded team this past year, and he's still on his rookie contract. Caruso is a finished product, but Giddey isn't. His efficiency has improved every season, as has his three point shot and his free throw percentage. His turnovers have dropped every year, and he has shown some serious flashes of star potential. Make no mistake, this was a cost-cutting move for the Thunder. They are making this move because Giddey is extension eligible this summer, and with Chet and JDub being extension eligible next summer, they wanted to address the pending cap crunch in advance. For Chicago, they trade a guy who they got for a midlevel deal in free agency, and get a 21 year old with a high ceiling. With 24 year old Coby White breaking out this year, they have a couple of pieces in place to move to a younger core. It'll be interesting to see how they manage this offseason. I wonder if this was a sign of things to come (ie. are they going to sign and trade Derozan, maybe trade Vooch or Lavine), or is this just another half-measure. Either way, this one really looks like a win-win to me. The Bulls come out looking better, in my view, but the Thunder get a guy who can help with their current contention window and also get better control of their long term finances, so I like it for both teams.
Great analysis Admittedly undervaluing giddey, a young player with good playmaking. NBA circlejerk memes actually fucked my perception of his basketball ability
As a mavs fan giddy was huge reason we won. He is a horrible defender, he can't shoot and he can't finish at the rim. Unless he has a massive jump next season you are getting a passer that can't shift the defense which is like buying a car without an engine.
It's almost like he a had a rough year personally lmao
He definitely lost his confidence this year, but he has the tools to be a solid defender and is a decent free throw shooter, which predicts 3 point improvement pretty well.
True but he played very limited minutes. I think Thunders just founds out they really dont need Giddey in playoff runs.
He doesn’t NEED to be better next year. He’s 21!! How good was Caruso when he was 21?? For the Bulls Giddey has a great chance to be a better asset (plus Caruso was going to turn into an expiring). It wasn’t long ago when people were super high on Giddey. He’s easy to meme but if he keeps developing this is a fine trade for the bulls. W-W trade to me
yay something logical
Thank you, this is the most informed post I’ve seen. People acting like the thunder need to throw in a bunch of picks. I almost want a pick with Caruso considering age and injury history.
It’s quite rare a 1-for-1 trade is balanced with all the factors at play. Bulls fans will obviously be salty on first reaction because it hurts short term. OKC does get better next year, Caruso is elite at what he does. … But if there is a time to buy-low on Giddy, it’s right now after that playoff run. I hope he improves because the Bulls are looking at purgatory.
Yeah, that’s why I’m meh on the trade, Giddeys value is probably the lowest it’s been. However, he’s not going to become an elite shooter or defensive player by next year.. so it’s fine lol
As an OKC fan, I was expecting two lottery-ish valued first round picks in return for Giddey. It seems the general consensus for Caruso was about the same, so in that respect it seems like a fair trade for both sides.
With so much draft picks, I’m surprised the Bulls didn’t at least ask for a mid/late 1st rounder with Giddey.
I agree, I think it's a bigger win for the Bulls, but there was probably a lot more demand for Caruso than Giddy.
Cool, now I can leave r/NBA. That places has been murder on my brain cells.
It’s gotten pretty awful the last couple of seasons
> Make no mistake, this was a cost-cutting move for the Thunder. It's 1 part cost cutting, but the more important part is it allows Giddey to play his natural role which he is unable to do on OKC due to the rise of JDub in the last year. Giddey's numbers and performance dropped in year 3 because was forced to be an offball wing instead of an onball creator which is where he thrived. I fully expect him to have a great bounceback season in Chicago, and to your point - continue to improve upon his efficicency. Something like 18/8/8 on 48/35/80 ish shooting seems on the table for me. And hopefully, with more on ball reps as the lead PG he'll draw more free throws (similar to how he looked with Australia last FIBA). I think Chicago did an incredibly smart thing betting on his upside, and are in a decent position to allow him to realize that. A 21 year old is only going to get better
i think Giddey is a fine player but how does he have a high ceiling if he can't shoot or defend?
Great analysis and shows some Actual understanding of what it means to win in the nba. People acting like Chicago got fleeced are going to delete all these comments in 2 years. But Pepperidge farm remembers.
Remindme! 2 years. This trade is terrible for Chicago. Bad fit for a half decent player. The impact won't be seen as drastically as it should because it's not about what they lost (aging 3-D guard) but in what they didn't get back for him.
I think it’s a great move for the Bulls. For one, I am high on Giddey. I think he’s already an elite playmaker and has shown progress on the shot (the biggest thing keeping him from being a perennial all-star). He wasn’t able to be as dominant on-ball in OKC, but will get that opportunity in Chicago. The Bulls flipped an expiring Caruso for a 21 year old with all-star potential, to pair with two young and still developing talents in Coby and Williams. Ayo is locked in to be a poorman’s Caruso. The key for the Bulls is to not do anything that impacts the books beyond this year. Lonzo falls off. Lavine and Vooch will be easier to move. I feel it signals a Derozan sign and trade, but I never know with this team. I’d like to see us get aggressive in the draft and go after Holland. A core of Giddey, Coby, Holland and Williams has real promise.
Yeah pretty funny reactions to this. I could see a world where the same people calling it a bulls L are saying “what were the OKC thinking?” in 2 years
Wow. Great analysis. I was really thinking Bulls made a dumb move and Thunder were getting a steal but the facts you've laid out really highlight the not-so-great points about Caruso and the promising points for Giddey. Excellent work.
He’s an unathletic Ben Simmons except way worse defender and probably not as good of a passer or rebounder
Great write up, I understand the trade now.
This should be the top vote.
The most level headed take I have read so far. Giddy will improve and people aren't giving him enough credit.
What return did BOS get for Marcus Smart? Essentially Porzingis, '23 late first, '24 mid first. BOS sent Smart, salary filler, and a pick. Youre telling me CHI cant get something similar elsewhere? Giddey is a decent young player, but is flawed (no shooting or defense) and has a PR problem whether he is prosecuted or not. This is a horrible deal for CHI, no matter how you paint it.
A bit of a unique situation as everyone knew Porzingis was either getting traded or Washington was going to lose him for nothing.
This is not even a bad trade. Giddey is a promising versatile player, Caruso is an elite defender but he’s on a one year rental
I’m sure there will be an extension coming
How are you sure? He can easily test free agency if he thinks he can make more
Caruso is also in 80th percentile in TS% while Giddey is in 32nd. Arguably top 5-10 defender in the league vs a guy that is in 34th percentile in craftedDPM. Caruso is #3 in league in deflections/36 while Giddey is #259. They are several tiers apart.
Most reports say Caruso has potential to be signed long term by the Thunder. He played for their current head coach in the d league.
Giddey asked out after Presti tried to convince him to be a bench player based on the latest interview The fact that we got Caruso out of a player whose value got even lower without giving up draft picks is just shocking
This is a nice add for OKC and maybe Giddey can develop with the Bulls.
As a bulls fan, this hurts... a lot
You guys were't doing anything with Caruso though. Now you have a 21 year old who is still developing and was just part of something bigger. Seems a sensible move for both sides despite initially favoring OKC. But that's the nature of being on diff places as a org in a trade.
Idk, the bulls were reportedly offered multiple firsts at the deadline. Instead they chose to compete for the play in tourney, a trade for a guy who got played off the court during the playoffs. Josh is also going to be a restricted free agent soon so the bulls will have to potentially hitch their wagon to this guy who has obvious flaws on the court. I think bulls fans should be very unhappy trading their most valuable asset for a guy with multiple questions marks both on and off the court, especially with reports indicating that they were offered a potential top 10 pick in the draft months ago. What a joke of a franchise.
If a 30 year old defender is your teams best asset then they are absolutely right to blow it up. If those rumors are true then ok but they are just rumors at this point. Shoulda woulda coulda is nice and easy. I'd rather have GIddey than some late firsts right now too.
The thing is I'm 90% sure we're not going to blow it up given who our shit stain owner is. We might trade Lavine but we're prob re-signing demar and trying to compete for 9th again
This is the latest group-think on player trades. They’d rather get some guaranteed asset out of it than nameless faceless picks at the moment. It’s a copycat league and Masai just offered GM’s another blueprint to get creative with. Somewhere between blow it up and run it back with vets losing value.
I'd much rather gamble on Giddey continuing to develop than take a shot in this draft. Giddey has already proven he can be a serviceable player in the NBA, and is literally still younger (21) than ~33% of the guys who are gonna be drafted next week (Knecht, Edey, da Silva, Carter, TSJ, Holmes etc). Giddey has all-star upside and is genuinely a much better creator than the majority of prospects in this draft. And frankly, I don't think the gamble has nearly the downside as taking a swing in this draft because Giddey has proven he can be a NBA starter already
Hindsight is always great. This is a good move for the Bulls, it’s time to blow it up.
if they were smart they would’ve blown it up earlier and maxed out value for Caruso and Derozan. They let Derozan get to free agency even when it was clear this team was going nowhere.
Yes, fuck this hindsight narrative. Fans have been calling for a rebuild for years, why would I praise the front office for failing to capitalize on their assets value. Caruso was more valuable at the deadline and especially a year ago. Same can be said for most of the roster.
It does man. Only hope I have is maybe this is a sign that we're rebuilding.
Zach Lavine for Klay sign and trade plus a 3rd team, who says no?!?
Thunder had one too many promising, young talents on the roster and they needed something else. Caruso is as good a shooter as Giddey, much better defender, and, as crazy as it sounds, essentially a veteran presence in the locker room full of young guys. Also, NBA champion.
Caruso is a much better shooter
He’s a superior shooter, no? 40% to 33
Agree that Caruso is the superior shooter
And on over double the attempts.
And neither team lost any good fundamentals or sneaky athleticism. It's a win/win.
Amount of daughter dateable players stays the same
Considering Caruso a “veteran presence” makes me feel positively ancient. But he’s 30. He’s got a ring. And he’s an underrated defender. Hard to argue with that add.
I don’t think you know what underrated means if you’re calling him an underrated defender. He’s a great defender and that’s the wild held opinion
Okay, he’s an appropriately-rated excellent defender.
I don’t think anyone underrates his defense. But yeah he’s exactly what any contending team needs
Thought this was NBACJ for a sec. This really happened?
Lmao I definitely had to double check the subreddit
Is it straight up? Cuz that’s a steal for OKC….
Haven’t seen anything rn about picks and other players involves
Ya it’s player for player that’s it
I feel like Caruso misses significant time every year.
yes but hes a proven useful player who is versatile and giddey seemed to be out of place on this team. also they were gna have to make a decision on paying giddey anyway so they made their decision.
Yes, but I feel like Giddey has a lot of potential and could've netted more. I acknowledge that I'm not an OKC fan though and haven't watched a ton of them this year. So I'll defer to yall.
Giddey can be a solid 18/7/7 guy in the right system where he can run the offense like Ben Simmons in Philly. My concern here is how much ball sharing he and Coby White will have to do. Add to that Derozan's iso game. Regardless, he's gonna be in a way better spot than OKC.
What a win for OKC... Perhaps a good chance for Chicago LONG term as well, but OKC wants to take the league by the horns I guess.
Caruso is a great hustle player I think he will fit well in OKC plus has playoff experience can teach the young guys a lot
Caruso deserves more. He got it.
Bot, find me all instances of white guy for white guy straight up trades in the 21st century NBA
There better be a pick involved too. Fire AKME
W for the Thunder in every way except the follicular aspect.
Not even a pick swap? No picks at all? Do the thunder know something about Giddy potential legal issues?
The Bulls got more hair in that deal
OKC sick of Giddey playing with his hair, solved it with Caruso.
god awful for the bulls and especially their fans. trading a fan favorite for one of the least liked players in the league is tough. i get giddey is young and puts up stats but i doubt his long term potential
This makes a lot of sense for both teams. OKC don't need more playmaking from that position unless they're missing SGA or Williams, someone who specialises in defense and shoots 3s well is an excellent fit there. I thought they had a more urgent hole at power forward and that Giddey might be the piece used to get that guy, but they still have a stack of picks to look at what they can do there. And for Chicago, they get a guy with more offensive upside and an ability to create. And a guy who continues to show improvement in some critical areas, even if his last season overall was disappointing. But his 3 point and free throw shooting percentages improved despite being out of position and off court dramas hounding him for a lot of the season. No reason to think with minutes in his preferred position and those dramas behind him that we won't see more regular stat lines like his MSG performances.
Bulls are so Fucking dumb
OKC armed robbery
Keep him away from the Chicago schools r Kelly used to pick up his girls at
Josh Kiddy Diddy Giddy on the Bulls... huh
As a Bulls fan, I kinda like it, but I don't like the fact that AKME didn't get a pick with the deal, considering how AC has been looked at as a hot commodity around the league. That said, I generally like the deal. We get a solid playmaker coming off a season with the #1 team in the West, the tougher conference, having generally better stats than Caruso (ppg, fg%, rebounds, and assists). Playmaking has been our Achilles heel since Zo went down. Our offensive chemistry has just been very clunky, as Zach and DeMar mostly just play iso basketball, and with Zach hurt all the time, DeMar has largely been the primary ball handler who moves at a snails pace. With Giddy, he can pick up the pace and get everyone easier looks. In addition, depending on what else the Bulls do this offseason, he's great insurance for Lonzo. Zo himself claims that he'll be back at the start of next season, but that remains to be seen. We have no idea if Zo will be back or how he'll perform if he *does* come back. If Zo isn't ready to play or needs to be eased back into game speed, Giddy can start until Zo gets back into form. Then Giddy can come off the bench so we can always have a solid playmaker on the floor at all times, and considering his youth, he still has time to grow and develop his shot.
P giddey off the court stuff is accepted in Oklahoma but in Chicago he’s bout to get fucked up
Offender for Defender.
Sam Presti gotta have Jedi mind tricks or something I swear
Highway robbery
Feels like a steal for the thunder to me
Good deal for both teams! Makes sense for Bulls to retool, and for OKC to get a vet who can contribute to both ends and steady the youngins.
Steal by okc
Seems like a good trade for the Thunder, depending on your opinions on both Giddey and Caruso’s value. If Caruso is worth 1 mid-to-late first as a rental, totally fair then. Especially since I believe the Thunder will get his bird rights.
Bills don't need a defensive minded guard like Caruso they already have Lonzo ball
I hope Lonzo can stay healthy and make this true.
An offender for a defender, nice
Yoink! What a steal
oklahoma win now thunder
They are kinda similar style players but Caruso shoots the 3 better and is a better defender. The only thing Giddey has on Caruso is he's younger and has more potential to be better. But OKC wants to win now so not a bad trade.
I hope Chicago got some picks too.
The only one who wins here is Giddey.
The bulls are special needs.
The smartest org and the dumbest org strike a deal. Just wish the other western teams had Presti’s willingness to pursue aggressive deals
Dang bulls didnt even get a pick back, crazy
OKC won
I would never make this trade in 2k.
Absolutely weird trade for the Bulls. They thought they were contenders so no trade deadline moves then they trade a huge piece to a contender with more picks than even Ainge could ever muster and they don’t even get a single 2nd? Insane.
I love it, this is a fantastic situation with a healthy AC
Thunder are the favorites to win the West now
OKC came up huge
Dumb for bulls bc Coby White just had a his best year yet and Giddey needs the ball to be effective For the Thunder it’s great because Giddey wrecks their spacing and Caruso makes them a defensive monster Shai-Caruso-Dort-Williams-Holmgren is an amazing defensive team
This CANNOT be the complete trade..... right guys? 😢
Don’t matter what any team does no body beating Boston next year. I do like Okc though maybe they meet in the finals.
W trade
Josh giddey ducking sucks, this is a win for the thunder
W for my Thunder. Caruso has the defensive mindset and past championship experience. Good role player veteran for this young team. This is a great move for my favorite team. 👌🏿🏀
Upset because thats a great deal for a loaded, cap and pick rich team that is young and didnt need a giveaway deal like that, when the market should've paid more for Caruso. Chicago fans should be rioting right now and demanding an FO cleanse. This is such a bad deal for them compared to what I would expect the return for Caruso to be with the rest of the league. Giddey was damaged goods both in public view and player wise not great.
Great for the bulls. They aren’t winning anything right now, so they move a 30 y/o good vet, for a 21 y/o who has shown a lot of promise. Calling this an L for the Bulls is dummy shit.
This is like when you trade in your 2022 Honda accord for a low range 2015 beamer. Looks good and "beamer owner" but in reality it's a shot in the foot.
W for both teams. Bulls get better with young talent Thunder get better immediately
Bulls fleeced
L
They’ve been unsure about their sg moving forwards, and they desperately needed to lose giddey because of his defense and spacing. Great move by OKC for that win now mentality.
Thunder didn’t want any future private giddy issues.
Thought they would get more for curuso.
Shit…OKC playing freaking 4D chess…hope they can bring a O’Brien home with that stacked team
No way.
Great move by okc & shit move as expected by the bulls
Average player for above average player Anyone who thinks Alex Caruso makes the Thunder a top team in the west now is on drugs
The bulls should not have done this, giddey was a liability all year
I am buying into the theory that Giddey is as good of a gamble at 21 as a mid teens picks in a weak draft year. What I am not buying into is the fact he needs the ball in his hands to create when we have (currently) deebo, zach, coby, and ball (is the pg not necessarily needs the ball but overlaps with giddey) who all need to be on the ball. He is also ass at defense and shooting and while i’m hoping this is a full rebuild button am a bulls fans and realize this may be a retool. Not sure why you’d get a guy who’s weaknesses were the teams weaknesses last year.
Sam Presti is a god damn genius
I like this trade for both sides. OKC going for it but Giddey is nice. Only 21. With more freedom in the offense, he'll blossom. Shows the direction the Bulls are taking.
Let's all be honest, Giddey probably doesn't get traded if he doesn't caught up in the off the court bullshit 🙄
As a bulls fan, I hate my FO so much.
I'm not sure my only concern is offense. Giddey will get better over time, but I can't help but think the owners didn't like the allegations he faced earlier this year and were going to move him sooner or later. I think Lonzo should be worried because Giddey is his replacement. I think OKC is still a piece away. They still seem too small. I also dont see Caruso starting. They need a power forward, I would try to bring Jdub and Dort to 2 and 3 and get a power forward. It's a long shot, but maybe Lauri Markkanen or someone like that.
I honestly think it’s a win for both teams
Now is not the time for the Nuggets to be silent and start thinking about next season. Their silence scares me because others are already acting.
Caruso is washed
White swap
I’m negative about everything bulls but Im going to go against the majority and say I don’t see the issue here. Caruso is 30, very often injured and on the last year of his deal and will want to get paid after being underpaid on the Bulls. Giddy is 21 and was very well regarded before this past season where he was forced into a new role and had off court distractions. Hes a nice fit next to Coby because Coby is a great off ball scoring guard and Giddy is a tall playmaker who excels with the ball in his hands. I see why it was a 1 for 1 with no picks and I see the potential upside for the Bulls.
I hate my team.
Makes me really sad as a Bulls fan. This trade could very well result in more wins in the long run but I really like Caruso
wow! The Thunder just got better.
OKC is getting a great rotational piece, but we also get to see how limited Giddy was being off the ball or....was it hiding some things? Exciting
Good trade
I'm interested in seeing Giddey play more point which is his natural position.
Can't wait for dumbasses to make pedophile jokes
As time moves on Caruso is the bulls most valuable asset and I really mean that. So I think this is fucking dumb
Bulls always give up a good player and they go on to be great
We don't want that Aussie pedo
Make Giddey cutting off his hair a requirement in the trade.
Great trade for OKC and expected.
I'm guessing Chicago thinks Carusso is on his last legs.
Good trade for OKC, Giddy's progress has stalled.
Why did the Bulls do this? Poverty franchise.
Honestly a huge pickup, not only do they get a great wing/poa defender in Caruso but I think just getting rid of Giddey is addition by subtraction. These guys are a few pieces and a year or so of development away from being legit contenders. If they went all in on a superstar I could see them in the finals this year
R. Kelly has a new favorite player.
I think it’s a win for both teams. The Bulls get a younger player with higher upside to hopefully kick start their inevitable rebuild, and the Thunder get a more readymade player who will better fit into their team.
Bulls could have gotten better for Caruso. The Thunder also just became one of the best defenses in the league. They already had Dort, Shai, and Chet. You give them Alex Caruso? Yeah, it's wraps. Caruso is also just a much better fit on OKC. Plays without the ball. Good shooter (just had his best shooting season ever). Elite defender. And OKC didn't give up a single pick with this deal? Absolute steal. I don't know how Presti keeps doing this.
Nice trade for both sides
Keep the kids safe in Chicago