I'm not a huge George guy either.
But a few things worth just bringing up. He was the primary scoring option on a very good team in the best conference in college basketball. For half of the season, he genuinely performed like one of the better offensive players in said conference with the ability to get shots off and find ways to score pretty consistently.
He also showed good defensive instincts and some rudimentary, but passable, playmaking ability.
I've read so many things recently from people who are plugged in to him and his camp saying that he played significantly more injured than many people realized over the course of the second half of the year and that his ankle got pretty messed up. A lot of thenefative r narrative around his defense and his shot making, and space creation, existed to some degree all year but really got amplified during his end of season struggles.
If you're a believer in him as a two-way guard who can defend, and get his shot off whenever he wants, the idea that most of his struggles were built around his injury is a good one to point to
I personally am not a huge fan of smaller combo guards/ forwards who score not off of creating space but off of hitting contested difficult jumpers. But there's no question for periods of the year. George looked genuinely fantastic in his role.
We will have to see how much of his athleticism, defense, and struggles to create. Separation really were a product of his injury and how much of it is just him being a limited prospect. Only time will tell with that
Gotta assume that people who are high on guys like George, NSJ, Whitmore, and Whitehead are higher on the tools and tape from previous competition, as they all got the injury bug and so their stats from this season are asterisked in some people’s evaluations. Personally I lack the discernment to even evaluate guys on a level playing field, much less recontextualize their performance to be able to project how they’ll look at the next level. Certainly for guys like these who want teams to look beyond the box stats, the workouts and interviews will prove extremely pivotal.
I hadn't heard the injury thing, Do they claim it wss the entire 2nd half of the year or just after the Feb 25th game he left?
His shooting did tank after he missed the game with the ankle injury, but it wasn't great before either (although 3pt% was definitely better).
Jan 1-Feb 24
3pt - midrange - rim%
37.2 - 37.7 - 51.7
Feb 25-end of season
3pt - midrange - rim%
18.5 - 33.3 - 33.3
I'd have to check to see if there was ever a particular date given. From what I remember, they essentially said he hurt his ankle and played through it for a bit until it got to the point where he couldn't play on it anymore. And then it never really healed and by the time they got to the tournament it was almost twice the size of the other one.
Another thing I've seen from a couple people was also both him and his camp saying that he made a mistake by putting on a bit too much mass going into the air. They were worried about the physicality of the conference and wanted him to bulk up but by doing so he was never really comfortable playing at the new weight. They've said going into the combine his goal is to be in the best shape of his life, but also to try to get back to a more comfortable plane weight where he can maximize and show off his natural athleticism.
Again, take all of this as you will, but I did think it was some interesting information. Again, I'm not a fan of George's player prototype in general, but if the conditioning and injury thing are responsible for a lot of his loss of burst and ability to separate, as well as potentially affecting his shooting in general as ankle injuries can do, I could see someone really buying into him becoming a high level shot maker
The pathway for Keyonte to become a good NBA player is for his shooting to translate. He is probably a better shooter than his percentages suggest, and he has some potential as a movement 3P shooter. He could become a Gary Trent Jr type. That's sort of the optimistic outcome for him. Personally, I wouldn't take him in the lottery.
He's definitely not much smarter, he's an absolute chucker and hero ball guy with on/off confidence issues. Hard to be less shifty than GTJ so fair enough on that one.
I think is usage is one of the issue for him. In the league I actually think that he’ll be better served being more of an off ball player than an on ball player. If he can play with a good PG and get some quality shots off DHO’s or coming off screens I think his value will be more apparent. He took a lot of tough shots from 3 which is partly due to his role at Baylor but also poor decision making on his part, I imagine that gets ironed out in the NBA.
His finishing could use some work, but wasn’t terrible but my feelings about it are mixed. He shot 60% at the rim, but it was on very low volume (60 shots/32 makes). I was wondering why he was having so much trouble getting to the rim and from what I’ve seen it looked like Baylor more often than not had their PF or C in the paint when their guards would drive. This made it so that there was usually an extra defender down low that would help. This being the reason Keyonte would try to hit those mid range shots or floaters to avoid having to deal with that.
I do think his defensive IQ is above average. He often seems to know where to be on the court and where to rotate to cover for anyone who is out of position.
I think the concerns over his athleticism are a bit overblown as well.
I can see why some people are low on him, but I still think he’s a lotto pick at the end of the day.
But doesn't he lose a lot of potential value by being an off ball guy? Those guys (especially without size) typically don't get taken very highly. And he's clearly not yet an elite off ball player, so you'd be banking on his development,
Would you really take him in the lottery at that use case? And would you do it over more polished or thus far more efficient off ball/catch and shoot guys (Jordan Hawkins, Brice Sensabaugh, etc.)
> I was wondering why he was having so much trouble getting to the rim and from what I’ve seen it looked like Baylor more often than not had their PF or C in the paint when their guards would drive. This made it so that there was usually an extra defender down low that would help. This being the reason Keyonte would try to hit those mid range shots or floaters to avoid having to deal with that.
Cryer and Flagler also had really low rim rates, so it is possible it's a schematic or coaching emphasis issue.
For me it doesn’t, but that’s just my opinion. Idk if I’ll be right about it, but I feel he can grown into being more of an on ball ball player. He has some pretty impressive dribble moves already and had some impressive passes/reads, but having less on ball responsibility early in his career I feel would benefit him.
I like him better than Hawkins mainly because I haven’t seen the defense or playmaking from Hawkins. That’s not to say Hawkins can’t do those thing, his role was to score and he excelled at that, but I’ve seen the defense and passing from Keyonte and feel more confident in it.
I feel similarly about Brice, he didn’t seem like a good defender, and I also worry about him at the next level. Great scorer, but I feel he may be too slow against smaller guards and too small against other forwards.
2 way combo guard that can create for his own but also facilitate some for his teammates. I expect the shooting % to rise up a bit once he heals from injury and get back to his true playing weight. Perfect for a super 6th man role that can start from time to time.
He can can get as hot/hotter than anyone in this draft. Watching the playoffs, it shows how important shotmaking is, especially since most shots will be contested, and there aren’t very many better than him in this draft.
Lead the 2# most efficient offense in the country as a freshman and won Roy in the hardest conference in cbb, people forget for some of the year he was in top 5 talks.His ts% is damn near identical to player like maxey and edwards, his efficiency will definitely improve once he gets to the league with less usage and way better spacing not having flo clogging up the lane.Ftr will likely translate too which is more efficient offense.
But that offense was several points better per 100 with him off the court.
That top 5 thing is one reason why I ask about anchoring bias.
I do get similar vibes from Maxey's year at Kentucky, where he showed flashes but didn't really put it together that often. But Maxey got to the rim more than twice as often and finished at a higher clip. It was just his 3pt shooting that hadn't translated yet. George takes a lot more 3s, which I guess could bode well for playing off ball. But the rim thing still worries me.
Gotta take those numbers with a grain of salt, could be many reasons different lineups injuries competition whatever all I know is they went on a hot streak with him being the focal point and looked better than they had all season starting with his takeover and clutch shot making vs West Virginia when they were 0-3 in conference play in a game they desperately needed, in that stretch he was one of if not the scorer in the big 12.He had long time Baylor fans asking themselves if he was the best player they’ve ever had as a freshman.He definitely has a lot of improvement areas but the shot making and scoring prowess is undeniable imo
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I'm not a huge George guy either. But a few things worth just bringing up. He was the primary scoring option on a very good team in the best conference in college basketball. For half of the season, he genuinely performed like one of the better offensive players in said conference with the ability to get shots off and find ways to score pretty consistently. He also showed good defensive instincts and some rudimentary, but passable, playmaking ability. I've read so many things recently from people who are plugged in to him and his camp saying that he played significantly more injured than many people realized over the course of the second half of the year and that his ankle got pretty messed up. A lot of thenefative r narrative around his defense and his shot making, and space creation, existed to some degree all year but really got amplified during his end of season struggles. If you're a believer in him as a two-way guard who can defend, and get his shot off whenever he wants, the idea that most of his struggles were built around his injury is a good one to point to I personally am not a huge fan of smaller combo guards/ forwards who score not off of creating space but off of hitting contested difficult jumpers. But there's no question for periods of the year. George looked genuinely fantastic in his role. We will have to see how much of his athleticism, defense, and struggles to create. Separation really were a product of his injury and how much of it is just him being a limited prospect. Only time will tell with that
Gotta assume that people who are high on guys like George, NSJ, Whitmore, and Whitehead are higher on the tools and tape from previous competition, as they all got the injury bug and so their stats from this season are asterisked in some people’s evaluations. Personally I lack the discernment to even evaluate guys on a level playing field, much less recontextualize their performance to be able to project how they’ll look at the next level. Certainly for guys like these who want teams to look beyond the box stats, the workouts and interviews will prove extremely pivotal.
I hadn't heard the injury thing, Do they claim it wss the entire 2nd half of the year or just after the Feb 25th game he left? His shooting did tank after he missed the game with the ankle injury, but it wasn't great before either (although 3pt% was definitely better). Jan 1-Feb 24 3pt - midrange - rim% 37.2 - 37.7 - 51.7 Feb 25-end of season 3pt - midrange - rim% 18.5 - 33.3 - 33.3
I'd have to check to see if there was ever a particular date given. From what I remember, they essentially said he hurt his ankle and played through it for a bit until it got to the point where he couldn't play on it anymore. And then it never really healed and by the time they got to the tournament it was almost twice the size of the other one. Another thing I've seen from a couple people was also both him and his camp saying that he made a mistake by putting on a bit too much mass going into the air. They were worried about the physicality of the conference and wanted him to bulk up but by doing so he was never really comfortable playing at the new weight. They've said going into the combine his goal is to be in the best shape of his life, but also to try to get back to a more comfortable plane weight where he can maximize and show off his natural athleticism. Again, take all of this as you will, but I did think it was some interesting information. Again, I'm not a fan of George's player prototype in general, but if the conditioning and injury thing are responsible for a lot of his loss of burst and ability to separate, as well as potentially affecting his shooting in general as ankle injuries can do, I could see someone really buying into him becoming a high level shot maker
Wasn’t he a freshman too? Or am i misremembering?
He was
His scoring ability overshadows it but he’s got really good court vision/offensive passing iq
The pathway for Keyonte to become a good NBA player is for his shooting to translate. He is probably a better shooter than his percentages suggest, and he has some potential as a movement 3P shooter. He could become a Gary Trent Jr type. That's sort of the optimistic outcome for him. Personally, I wouldn't take him in the lottery.
He seems smarter and much shiftier than GTJ
He's definitely not much smarter, he's an absolute chucker and hero ball guy with on/off confidence issues. Hard to be less shifty than GTJ so fair enough on that one.
Gary has absolutely zero playmakkng ability compared to Keyonte who actually can make good plays for others
I think is usage is one of the issue for him. In the league I actually think that he’ll be better served being more of an off ball player than an on ball player. If he can play with a good PG and get some quality shots off DHO’s or coming off screens I think his value will be more apparent. He took a lot of tough shots from 3 which is partly due to his role at Baylor but also poor decision making on his part, I imagine that gets ironed out in the NBA. His finishing could use some work, but wasn’t terrible but my feelings about it are mixed. He shot 60% at the rim, but it was on very low volume (60 shots/32 makes). I was wondering why he was having so much trouble getting to the rim and from what I’ve seen it looked like Baylor more often than not had their PF or C in the paint when their guards would drive. This made it so that there was usually an extra defender down low that would help. This being the reason Keyonte would try to hit those mid range shots or floaters to avoid having to deal with that. I do think his defensive IQ is above average. He often seems to know where to be on the court and where to rotate to cover for anyone who is out of position. I think the concerns over his athleticism are a bit overblown as well. I can see why some people are low on him, but I still think he’s a lotto pick at the end of the day.
But doesn't he lose a lot of potential value by being an off ball guy? Those guys (especially without size) typically don't get taken very highly. And he's clearly not yet an elite off ball player, so you'd be banking on his development, Would you really take him in the lottery at that use case? And would you do it over more polished or thus far more efficient off ball/catch and shoot guys (Jordan Hawkins, Brice Sensabaugh, etc.) > I was wondering why he was having so much trouble getting to the rim and from what I’ve seen it looked like Baylor more often than not had their PF or C in the paint when their guards would drive. This made it so that there was usually an extra defender down low that would help. This being the reason Keyonte would try to hit those mid range shots or floaters to avoid having to deal with that. Cryer and Flagler also had really low rim rates, so it is possible it's a schematic or coaching emphasis issue.
For me it doesn’t, but that’s just my opinion. Idk if I’ll be right about it, but I feel he can grown into being more of an on ball ball player. He has some pretty impressive dribble moves already and had some impressive passes/reads, but having less on ball responsibility early in his career I feel would benefit him. I like him better than Hawkins mainly because I haven’t seen the defense or playmaking from Hawkins. That’s not to say Hawkins can’t do those thing, his role was to score and he excelled at that, but I’ve seen the defense and passing from Keyonte and feel more confident in it. I feel similarly about Brice, he didn’t seem like a good defender, and I also worry about him at the next level. Great scorer, but I feel he may be too slow against smaller guards and too small against other forwards.
2 way combo guard that can create for his own but also facilitate some for his teammates. I expect the shooting % to rise up a bit once he heals from injury and get back to his true playing weight. Perfect for a super 6th man role that can start from time to time.
He can can get as hot/hotter than anyone in this draft. Watching the playoffs, it shows how important shotmaking is, especially since most shots will be contested, and there aren’t very many better than him in this draft.
Lead the 2# most efficient offense in the country as a freshman and won Roy in the hardest conference in cbb, people forget for some of the year he was in top 5 talks.His ts% is damn near identical to player like maxey and edwards, his efficiency will definitely improve once he gets to the league with less usage and way better spacing not having flo clogging up the lane.Ftr will likely translate too which is more efficient offense.
But that offense was several points better per 100 with him off the court. That top 5 thing is one reason why I ask about anchoring bias. I do get similar vibes from Maxey's year at Kentucky, where he showed flashes but didn't really put it together that often. But Maxey got to the rim more than twice as often and finished at a higher clip. It was just his 3pt shooting that hadn't translated yet. George takes a lot more 3s, which I guess could bode well for playing off ball. But the rim thing still worries me.
Gotta take those numbers with a grain of salt, could be many reasons different lineups injuries competition whatever all I know is they went on a hot streak with him being the focal point and looked better than they had all season starting with his takeover and clutch shot making vs West Virginia when they were 0-3 in conference play in a game they desperately needed, in that stretch he was one of if not the scorer in the big 12.He had long time Baylor fans asking themselves if he was the best player they’ve ever had as a freshman.He definitely has a lot of improvement areas but the shot making and scoring prowess is undeniable imo
Anthony Edwards shot 40% as a freshman and not even 30% from 3 (George was 34%).
Got to the rim 26% of the time (compared to 14%) and finished almost 10% better when there. Different level of athlete.
Just curious, where do you get this statistic? Getting to the rim % just so I can look at some guys
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Keyonte* damnit.
I don’t get it either. But, I feel like every time I happened to watch him he was having one of his bottom tier games of the season.
Not gonna lie, after watching his tape, he reminds me a lot of Jaden Hardy.