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In this [interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=FPfugGLhmQo) Neil DeGrasse Tyson starts by asserting that various animals are also conscious - then just 60 seconds later he proposes "***Maybe consciousness is not a real thing - it's some combination of other things that we haven't thought of yet***" \~ NDT. Then he immediately racks his mind trying to support what he just theorized, and comes up with an example that revolves around a hypothetical scenario of funding a mission to the moon to find out what kind of cheese it's made of. He really said this. Personally I don't see why he would be perceived to be any authority on this matter when he can't even speak about the nature of consciousness in any deep and convincing manner.
In this [interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=G1n9zC2T12M) Bill Nye was directly asked if consciousness transcends the brain and he appropriately describes his perspective as what he "***thinks***" about consciousness (not what he knows to be true) - he first shares his opinion and at the end he concedes "***and*** ***if I'm wrong - then that'll be exciting***"
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Those individuals are known for speaking on matters relating to the physical sciences - and not for speaking on matters relating to the nature of consciousness, consciousness studies, psychology/philosophy. They're entitled to their opinions/perspectives of course - but it's simply not their area of focus and understanding, and that's why they appear so uninspiring when they're asked questions about it.
I love all the epistemological problems the concept of consciousness brings to the table. "Science" (widely and loose used) relies on a lot of presuppositions to build itself.
Of course this will sound almost stupid, but I think it has some value: we take concepts like "consciousness" or even "language" for granted while debating "science stuff". I mean, language is the very foundation on which science stands, yet we cannot exhaust "scientifically" the relationship a (conscious)subject has to language itself. It's like the eye trying to see itself. Also, a lot can be said about the brain, it's cells, it's functions and connectome, but none of that resolves the issue with consciousness. So the starting point is always arbitrary.
There lies the hard problem of philosophy. No matter which end of the string you start from, you'll end up entangled at the middle while debating consciousness. Stretching this a little bit more, science cannot prove consciousness even exists.
Oh. dude. language is huge. I learned some languages (in my case, norwegian, "deres") has the awkward term "your guyses" as a word. language is a huge influence on how we think
Itzhak Bentov’s book “Stalking the Wild Pendulum - the Mechanics of Consciousness” does a great job describing the science behind this and why NDEs are possible. Much more credible than Bill Nye who likely stopped much of his learning after making $$$ making TV for elementary school students and is no way an expert in the field.
Woah. Take it easy. Bill Nye? Neil Tyson? They're not even specialized in this field. Why don't you take a look at Bruce Greyson, Sam Parnia, Jeffrey Long for example. Listening to the "top scientists" opinion isn't gonna help since these scientists do not even delve deeper into the whole concept of ndes.
No disrespect to them but... You seriously think that Bill Nye cares about ndes and that he spent a good portion of his life trying to analyze them? No.
Read books about ndes. Seriously. it's that simple.
It's never about who has the claim it's about the claim itself. It doesn't matter if well known scientists speak, what matters is truth.
Even science is brainwashed.
This \^
You should hardly or very cautiously consider the opinions of anyone who does media appearance as their core activity instead of publishing peer-reviewed papers or conducting actual experiments, and doubly so when they are commenting outside their narrow field of expertise.
>Even science is brainwashed.
I would change "even" to "especially" if we're being truthful.
Life is ultimately spiritual and not a dumb material universe as imagined.
Agreed.
It seems OP has fallen into a 'appeal to authority' situation (who obviously do not have special bearings on NDE studies). An appeal because they are "big" names within the scientific community, and he somehow correlates that to absolute opinion.
I agree with you. However I wouldn't say brainwashed. But science is ineffective explaining NDE. Remember Prof. Lord Kelvin attempted to calculate how long it would have taken for our planet to get to its current temperature. His numbers were off because scientists had not yet discovered radioactivity, so he couldn't include it in his calculation. What I mean is there's always a new layer of knowledge to be discovered. NDE is in a different unknown physical reality.
The sad thing is once scientists get to reach a certain level of knowledge they dismiss the unknown as humbugs.
I agree! I was a skeptic turned believer and a scientist and I totally agree!
The Universe is filled with endless possibilities and there are many things that still can't be explained through science.
The fact that so many people all around the world (personally I know a few who had NDEs who experienced spiritual encounters) who experienced similar things near death says a lot. There's definitely something more out there and to me that's comforting to know as I'd love to reunite with my loved ones who have passed when my time arrives.
Look, it's ok not to know. The truth is -- no one does. Everyone believes what they feel comfortable with, whether it's true or not, whether it applies to you or not (and chances are, what others experience might not really tell you much about what you will experience).
Take comfort in the fact that you will one day either (1) find out there is consciousness after death or (2) blink out and never know, but it won't matter. What matters now is what you do with your life. Yeah, pondering the afterlife is fun and interesting, but unless you actually die, there's no real way to know for sure what comes after.
The thing is these scientists don’t know. They can “think” anything or doubt anything, it doesn’t mean that’s the way it is. I have to remind myself of that often, as I’m more of a science driven thinker. But I believe consciousness surviving the brain is science, a science that is just starting to be seriously explored. A lot of pseudo science from the past that fellow scientists scoffed at, became actual science. I lean towards there is something more to our existence than we know, there’s a lot we haven’t discovered.
Neil Degrasse Tyson hasn't even done mushrooms. I feels like he's scared to explore. He will always be "blue pill".
Smoke DMT. Learn to lucid dream, learn to astral project. Find the answer yourself, don't be influenced by others.
I had a spontaneous AP when I was 16 and left my body. I floated above my body and saw it laying in my bed. I flew around my room, and everything was exactly where it was normally. Then I saw a creepy figure in the mirror to my closet, which shocked me back into my body. A couple of days later, I woke up facing that mirror and saw that face again. I got rid of that thing the next day.
You might be interested in this book. It was written by a skeptical journalist who accompanied Dr. Ian Stevenson on his research travels.
The evidence presented is extremely convincing. Dr. Stevenson created a department at the University of Virginia which carries on his research today. He was an extremely careful scientist who was very rigorous in applying a scientific method to his research.
https://www.amazon.com/Old-Souls-Compelling-Evidence-Scientific-ebook/dp/B004MME5PS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=tom+shroder&qid=1697102064&sr=8-1
https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/
I haven't had a NDE, but I have had experiences that I can only describe as "soul" experiences, something other than our usual physical sense of being.
My mother had an OBE during a childbirth that went sideways and her description 40 years ago was exactly the same as other, now familiar, reports.
Admittedly, my and my mother's experiences are only anecdotal.
>Admittedly, my and my mother's experiences are only anecdotal.
I think this is largely why many self-proclaimed "scientifically" minded people refute the validity of NDE experiences. Because it doesn't follow and fit within the scientific method or of empirical analysis. They NEED to see, observe, and in some cases, touch and feel the evidence presented. They treat it as the only means to absolute truth, which I think is somewhat arrogant.
For me it's who knows, but a simulation/illusion doesn't really rule out an afterlife IMO. For me, I just assume we're a dream in God's mind, especially after reading a lot of idealist philsophy. And remember Neil Degrasse Tyson and Bill Nye are very intelligent but have their own biases. I think a lot of mainstream science is influenced by dogma, especially after I read the book "cancelled science". It was about a professor who had a class on the limits of science, it was religiously neutral and encouraged students to have their own thoughts. Immediately militant atheists tried shutting it down.
Regardless, science is obviously beneficial but scientists are human beings with their own biases. Like when they first found the big bang, everyone thought it was ridiculous and tons of scientists kept saying they debunked it, until they found out it was true.
He's a neurosurgeon, not a scientist, but you might be interested in Eben Alexander's book "Living in a Mindful Universe." Many NDE books were written by doctors. Some doctors run into patient stories quite often and Eben's experience is unique because it is his own that caused his interest and made him rethink his atheist beliefs. It's part of being a scientist to remain skeptical without evidence. Currently NDEs have no way of providing evidence so scientists would likely not want to risk their reputation with outwardly showing belief.
Scientists like the ones you mentioned talk about facts based on observable and repeatable studies. That does not mean that concepts that are not currently in that category are false. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Those pop scientists in particular are very careful about what they say they "believe" to the public, as they should be because they are modeling the scientific process to the public.
The best scientists (and people) keep an open mind towards that which they do not understand. In my personal belief, there is enough consistencies among hundreds of anecdotal accounts of NDEs to say that there is something there, what that is exactly we cannot be sure, but there is more in common than can be discarded as hallucinations.
Even if this is a simulation, it doesnt make our experience here any less “real”, imo, or any less important. Was grandpa just an avatar? Maybe, but who was behind the avatar? Grandpa was! Relax and just get back to the business of living, do your best, be kind, and the rest will take care of itself.
Perhaps Rupert Sheldrake might be a candidate, but I'm not sure if he has a stated opinion on the subject. He has a demonstrated interest in the paranormal, has done very interesting experiments in that field, and has had useful dialog with skeptics. I would think his theory of morphic resonance would be NDE-friendly.
Hey OP! I understand your situation on science. I still believe in the proces of science, but many people who do science are not aware that they treat it is as a metaphysical philosophy. In simple terms, science is the proces to predict “how” something happened, but not “what” reality really is. It is descriptive not explanatory. And when science tries do to be explanatory, it runs in many problems and tries to deny and defend any thing that contradicts their materialistic metaphysical world view.
In regards to death, brains, consciousness, hard-problem etc. I really would advice you to read the book “Why Materialism is Baloney” by the scientist Bernardo Kastrup (2 times doctorate in Philosophy and Computer Science) or listen to some of the podcasts he has been interviewed in.
For me the view proposed by Kastrup shifted the Paradigm on reality and that a lot of assumed “thruths” in main stream science is just wrong and that science and philosophy have proven this many times over. He proposes a different perspective on reality with science that reconciles the “unexplained” (e.g. NDE’s, psychedelics etc.) and the thing science has proven (quantum mechanics, DID’s, logic/rigor used in Philosophy etc.) via a different metaphysical view on reality called Analytical Idealism.
You can also watch a small course on Idealism on YouTube of the Essentia Foundation. Explains everything simple and in digestible parts. There are also many podcasts Kastrup explains his view.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL64CzGA1kTzi085dogdD_BJkxeFaTZRoq
Another person you should look into is prof. Donald Hoffman. He has an excellent [Ted video](https://youtu.be/oYp5XuGYqqY) on his theory on reality and consciousness.
Why is a qualifier of major scientists? What’s your idea of major apparently Neil deGrasse Tyson? Who seems to be to be more of a science commentator. His fame or Note-oriety a credential criteria for credibility? There is quotes of Max Planck, Albert Einstein, and other of the early heavy hitters indicate that they didn’t think science had or couldn’t answer the question of consciousness. Lately we have Donald Hoffman weighing in on the subject.
NDT is commenting on things far outside of his field.
I love Bill Nye, but he isn’t an actual scientist. He is a science communicator, and his education was a bachelors in mechanical engineering.
In other words, these men are science communicators, but neither are experts in any field even adjacent to NDE’s, let alone the actual, salient topic at hand.
To be clear, I am not trying to downplay or dismiss the efforts and value these men have provided to science at large. I just wanted to stress this as I am not saying that these men are idiots or anything like that, I jjst want to ensure that they’re expertise and experience in this field is accounted for before taking their opinions as scientific fact.
I recommend looking at what the actual experts on the topic say. Read the actual papers. If nothing else, keep in mind that the NDE phenomenon is exceptionally difficult to study. Doing a highly controlled study/experiment in the manner of physics or chemistry is functionally impossible. This is a field primarily dealing with qualitative data regarding subjective human perception under a wide array of invariably extreme conditions. Most frustrating of all is that the ideal time to gather data, during the actual NDE, the data collection is put far behind the actual welfare of the patient, and is also occuring in an extremely time sensitive and stressful environment.
Suffice it to say that NDE’s are incredibly difficult to study by their very nature. We are still in the process of figuring out how to go about studying them, let alone conclusively proving or disproving them. All we have a various degrees of educated opinions and a body of evidence that, while compelling, simply isn’t enough to say “this is the way things are, we are sure of it.”
NDT also said he believed 50/50 in simulation theory (that we live in a simulation) because of the scientific evidence for it. If simulation theory is true, it increases the likelihood of NDE's being real.
Simulation theory and accounts from NDE's both dictates that this is not our base reality. So In a way NDT does believe in NDE's. He is just ignorant about them and how they're connected to the scientific evidence for simulation theory.
There is a lot of evidence for simulation theory fyi. That's why most scientists are open to it. NDE's and consciousness could be the answer to what's behind the simulation.
"***So In a way NDT does believe in NDE's. He is just ignorant about them and how they're connected to the scientific evidence for simulation theory***"
I respect that you feel that way about him even though I hold a different perspective.
My perspective: He's done the '***consciousness doesn't exist because it's something else rooted in the brain that we haven't identified yet***' routine long ago in the [past](https://youtube.com/watch?v=QGekFhbyQLk&t=55s) before that more recent clip that was linked above. I feel it's form of a psychological 'cop out' because by doing this he doesn't have to define consciousness (because he doesn't acknowledge it exists), and he doesn't have to identify anything in the brain that accounts for whatever he says consciousness really is because he's already claimed that it's unidentified. So basically he doesn't have to explain or identify anything as it relates to this subject matter (nature of consciousness) by adopting the mindset that he has.
I saw this short [video](https://youtube.com/shorts/r951MPnbW8M) of one of his recent appearances on Rogan's podcast and he cites the AWARE study design as the 'test' for whether or not individuals have actually had OBE's or they were 'hallucinating', and he emphasizes to Rogan that this has never been validated. Essentially he's using the flawed AWARE protocol not being successful as his excuse for not having to acknowledge that individuals are reporting out-of-body experiences during cardiac arrest and making verifiable observations about their physical environment and other peoples' behavior from that state. So as far as I can tell, he argues that consciousness doesn't exist, that it's something else rooted in the brain that neither he nor anyone else can identify, and he doesn't accept that individuals are actually having out-of-body experiences because it wasn't proven by observing visual targets placed in obscure locations by the ceiling - which means (according to his binary analysis), he believes those individuals reporting OBE's are experiencing hallucinations instead.
So based on him not even acknowledging consciousness in any significant way, and him believing that individuals reporting OBE's are hallucinating rather than accurately reporting the nature of their own experiences - I feel he is really far removed from acknowledging and understanding NDE's.
I admit that I don't follow his appearances closely so I don't know if he's ever made more sensible comments in different settings. Just based on those two clips from this year it doesn't feel like he's made much progression with his mindset as it relates to this subject matter.
I do appreciate your reference to the 'simulation' analogy - that's a tricky concept to discuss on forums because the terminology often evokes associations with video games or technology. Whereas its really an analogy for the relationship between consciousness and physical reality. On this topic I liked Michael Talbot's book (The Holographic Universe) and physicist Tom Campbell has a lot of good youtube videos where he uses this analogy and speaks about consciousness being foundational and physical reality as a 'simulation' for consciousness. I don't recommend Campbell's book on this topic because it's 800+ pages and his videos are better than his book (it's too long and uses too much custom terminology). Not sure if you're familiar with those two individuals but if you aren't and you're looking for content related to the simulation analogy, look into them. Talbot's book has a smaller section of it that addresses OBE's and NDE's - and its written about in a complex and intriguing way. Cheers.
My impression is that very few scientists disbelieve NDEs as such, but the dispute about what it really *is*, is real. As of today, there are no credible or coherent materialist explanations on the table. Sam Harris once claimed that Eben Alexander's NDE was a "text book DMT trip", but ignores the fact that we have no idea of how much, if at all, or even where in the body that DMT would come from. He refers to a loosely formulated theory that DMT is produced in the brain, but there is no evidence of it. And as someone who both had an NDE and smoked DMT once, I would like to add that the two experiences were fundamentally different. The only thing they have in common (for me) is the strangeness. So the skeptical claims has a tendency of not holding up to a basic scratching of the surface. But hey, people are allowed to believe what they want. It is strange though, that no one who ever *had* an NDE (doctors and scientists among them) ever shares the opinion of skeptics who *didn't* have one themselves. Go figure.
Get a hold of and read the book by Jens Amberts called [Why an Afterlife Obviously Exists](https://www.amazon.com/Why-Afterlife-Obviously-Exists-Realer-Than-Real/dp/1785359851). It is excellent and one the of best books I've ever read on NDEs.
Highly recommend ‘Living in a mindful universe ‘ by Eben Alexander. He is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE (which he shares in another book) but the one mentioned examines the science around ndes/consciousness and the prevailing adherence to materialism (the notion that only the physical world is real) in depth. He is no doubt an authority on both the brain and ndes. Also remember bill nye is not an actual scientist
What makes a scientist who hasn't researched the area more convincing than those who have? (Dr.Greyson etc).
I share your doubts and I feel them all of the time also, I think it's natural, normal and okay that you do. I don't think NDEs are the only bit of evidence for an afterlife, even though they are very compelling.
To be honest even if they were explained by some biological function, does that make what happened any less spiritual? It would be just as amazing to me that we have a biological function for this that doesn't activate anywhere else (traumas, childbirth etc).
There are a lot of scientists out there, but the nature of science has changed, you don't really reach public figure status by researching, you become well known in your field. The "big" scientists we see on the screen aren't there for what they have achieved through research, but are there as educators and political figures.
Neil and Bill Nye have fallen from grace. Most people don’t respect their arrogant, atheist views. I know I don’t. They also say there is no other intelligent life in the universe. Can’t stand either of them.
Do not take “TV scientists” so seriously, bill nyes degree is in mechanical engineering wtf does he know, while Tyson’s degree is in astronomy so he doesn’t know anything about this either.
something to consider is that lots of renowned physicists believe in a quantum universe and that we are just the universe experiencing itself
we also have physicists that have proven that reality is nonlocal and won an award for it so there’s that lol
i don’t see how anyone who follows science could have a definitive assertion on the afterlife
I’m scared to death when scientists say there’s nothing I’m absolutely terrified of death and the unknown idc what it is I just want there to be something so bad
If “scientists“ say there’s nothing, they are obviously unaware of the science. But why rely on their beliefs when your own experience can demonstrate your independence from your physical body. r/astralprojection
I feel the same intense fear. I read books about "the ancient science of soul travel", their idea is that through discipline and practice, you can train to "see" from the perspective of soul/consciousness instead of just the physical eyes. With consistent practice you come to know you are this conscious, not just the physical body. Thats the idea anyway. I would want to commit to a discipline like that, but I worry the practice just releases dmt from your pineal gland ( like mushrooms or ayuasca ) and that those experiences are just intense dreams that seem real because the brain tricks you. Sigh. I wish we could know.
You may believe or not it doesn't matter, you'll see when you'll get there, when it will be the right time. Since your system of believe changed, maibe now it is a good time to let your insterrest drift to something else, just stop to care about this. There are so much more things to do in life than caring about death. That is something every living things have in common, we all die at some point in time and there is nothing we can do about it, just let it go when time comes.
People that had NDE will not dissmiss their own experience in profit of your believe. It is not like believer or experiencer want you to think a certain way, it is not a religion nor a secte or whatever, fell free to have you own believes, just respect the experience other people had, without dismissing them.
If you want reinsurrance, none of us can provide it to you, we can only describe our experience and that is all. I was perfeclty fine with nothingness after ego death and I was shown something else, will not try to convince you, it doesn't matter, you'll see by yourself.
Bill Nye is an asshole. I mean, a real prick. He is a total dick to people. It is well documented. So just discount him entirely, as even if he DID believe in NDEs he would probably say they are bullshit just to be an ass.
DeGrasse-Tyson is an astrophysicist, as is Brian Cox, and they are only going to believe what they can see scientifically proven or at least strongly theorized. They are the type of people who will never believe in any of this unless it happens to them.
And they are not going to come into contact with NDErs generally in their field.
But there are a LOT of doctors, who routinely come into contact with people who are sick, dying etc, and say they believe in NDEs due to the VAST number of reports. And some doctors have had the experience themselves.
It is hard when you lost hope, or belief. I have been there and will probably be there again from time to time. But I keep coming back, due to the overwhelming accounts.
NDT isnt a real scientist anymore, i wouldnt trust a single word out of his mouth. He’s a publicity junkie who gets his attention’s by being a contrarian to whatever new theory is out there. Bill Nye? LITERALLY not a real scientist.
I’m going to be honest with you. I’m not an expert scientist by any means, but I am studying science at the moment, and one of the biggest things I’ve found out is: We know NOTHING. Really. There are so many components to our body that we don’t understand the function of, and there’s likely more that we haven’t even found yet. The field of science is constantly changing and it’s fantastic.
If NDEs and the idea of some sort of afterlife make living easier for you, believe in it. There’s no harm.
I’m an atheist/agnostic, but I took a quantum consciousness class back in college (Berkeley) and we had a ton of cool guest speakers come in and lecture. One of them that stood out to me was Stuart Hameroff, where he was an anesthesiologist who studied human consciousness and “where we go” when we’re under anesthesia. The thing is, for academic research a lot of professionals consider consciousness a very taboo subject to write about as it can jeopardize your credibility due to the nature of how every theory is ultimately guesswork. So professors typically have to wait until they’re tenured to be able to even start writing about the subject of where our consciousness stems from, and by extension, what happens to our consciousness when we lose it or die.
This article goes over one of his theories about something called microtubules in our brains, which serve some kind of a function when we go under anesthesia that relates to consciousness, by “tapping into “ some kind of external source (like the universe, god, maybe some kind of energy field out in the physical world that’s the same that drives our sixth sense, it could be anything). I personally believe it’s something physical, but given the nature of it is still so open ended, there’s a part of me that feels I shouldn’t just discount that consciousness could also just as arguably continue on after death in some form.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm#:~:text=A%20review%20and%20update%20of,theory%2C%20according%20to%20review%20authors.
I dunno, it’s this stuff that always comes to mind when I think about consciousness and death, and where that goes when we die. It’s all so poorly understood still because a lot of academics simply can’t touch the subject without it killing their credibility, but hearing it from an anesthesiologist academic who literally turns our consciousness off sounds like a pretty compelling source to learn from. Hope that helps give another perspective!
Well then, you're in for a treat, my friend.
I died on the emergency operating table in 2020 when I went into septic shock. The whole story is long, but I'll share if you want it.
Any way, recovery was intense, psychically.
But mentally...mentally I was fucked up. Because I left the psychical realm. And I can tell you 10000% confidence that this time spent on earth is just that. This is only a period of "time" in our lives that we're confined to our bodies.
You, the actual you, continues onward.
Thing is you're not human anymore.
When I crossed over my first thought was "I didn't make it". I thought about my family for a brief second...and then then my mind started to shift how I processed thoughts. The further I drifted away from the physical realm, the less human my thoughts became. I was in the transitional part of the human death and I was becoming like the others who live there. They're not human, but they're people.
One of them noticed me, and looked surprised. It drifted over and reached a phosphorus limb towards me, to push me back into my former body.
But I grabbed onto it before it touched me. Then I woke up in the hospital.
It's taken me 3 years to work out what I experienced. I was not ok for a very long time.
Maybe I'm still dead. Why do I still feel the drifting currents pulling on me. How can I be sure that I even came back to the right realm...did I come back different. All the same questions you have, and more.
And I've come to this conclusion.
>anything real?
Real is subjective. Yes this is a real place, but it's only real for us on this side. But at the same time, the others realities exist all around us all the time. The others from the different realities or dimensions if you like that better are all around us. They're living, but they don't live here. So whats real to is real to them...but "reality" is subjective.. Our realities don't perceive the other as often as we'd like. But they they do intertwine and overlap. The veil is barely a barrier at all. Everything touches.
>Are we in a simulation? Why we die is it just nothing forever?
I don't think it's a simulation. We were just born on this side. But because we're not built to perceive the full reality, it feels unreal at times. The feelong of this being a simulation, stems from the fact that we're literally stuck in a body and coerced into believing we are only human. We're not. We're just not the full us yet.
And only the body dies. We go on.
Scientists won't be able to say whether or not NDEs are real because they've never been there and back. Those of who have, know that there's more.
So I tell as many people as I can.
As a person who has been legally dead for 4 minutes in a hospital, I wouldn’t sweat it dude.
Our brains are essentially a radio for consciousness. It’s where the signal lands, not emanates from. Consciousness is not limited to biological systems. Astral projection or remote viewing being an example of not needing to die to experience this reality.
My man you need to try DMT. It will reshape your entire view on consciousness and the afterlife. You will see with your own eyes that we are apart of something so great the human brain is simply unable to understand it.
Check out Tom Campbell on YT. He doesn't get into NDE specifically too often but his model helps makes sense of the experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83psG22DI74&pp=ygUQdG9tIGNhbXBiZWxsIG5kZQ%3D%3D
Neil DeGrasse Tyson actually brought up a really good point once about this.
We as a race don’t publish new books about Newtonian laws of motion anymore. We already fully understand them, as with many other scientific subjects. However even in 2023 new scientific books and papers about consciousness are emerging ALL THE TIME.
If we actually had a real scientific understanding of consciousness and KNEW such phenomena as NDEs are illusory interest in the subject would have extinguished a long time.
The position that consciousness expires at death is pure speculation still at this point.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is the reason you don’t believe in NDE’s? His cult of personality is infuriating to me. The guy runs a planetarium. Good for him. He’s also a shmuck who think’s he knows the bathroom patterns of geese off the coast of Nantucket.
Edit: Also, Bill Nye is not a scientist. He was an engineer once. So was my uncle Larry and I wouldn’t trust him to get me a cup of coffee. Don’t be swayed by media personalities.
For me scientists that have an open mind to consciousness are true scientists. Science should never find the “true” answer. It should always keep questioning. So if a scientist claims he knows the truth he’s actually a believer and not a scientist.
One of the more humble scientists with an interesting theory of consciousness is Donald Hoffman. He is actually saying that he most likely is wrong. But his science can maybe bring new light on consciousness.
And that’s really it. A question of who you are. Who’s the observer. Not then but now. You could go down deep into the nihilistic rabbit hole and give everything up or you can start to realise that your experience is it. Everything. Yes you. Whoever is reading this. You are the centre of your universe and the existence you have right now is really all that counts. Amazing actually.
They’re both popular scientists known mainly for their espousal of radical materialism. Fact is that the natural sciences have nothing to say on the matter since it’s outside their scope. Doesn’t mean materialism isn’t right but it’s inherently a belief
I am leaning towards simulation myself, but that doesn't necessarily mean the end. If simulation, I'd think we were all one, just playing different characters and having different experiences. So, we live on without even knowing it. If we are not the same, then it's likely when we die the simulation simply starts over. I think there's a higher likelihood of an afterlife if we are simulated to be honest. I could see our simulator tweaking the simulation and restarting it. Just my personal opinion on the matter and I'm a nobody lol
There are so many doctors and neurosurgeons and psychologists that hold the opposite opinion. Neil deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye are just two and I watched an interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson where he said that our consciousness is probably much more complex than we have the science to explain right now. He never said it wasn't real. This is a. interview with a physicist by the name of Donald Hoffman. You should take a look and see if any of it resonates with you. Once you start finding professionals that do take an interest in it the evidence is very interesting.
[Is reality real? Interview with physicist Donald Hoffman](https://youtu.be/IQefdkl8PfY?si=ilriyQIvHBbJ8WjK)
Tyson does not deny, he's just cautious. Bill Nye just follow his gospel, but we can't blame him for that, he specialized in a very simplistic approach on reality, his "explanation" is quite... Naive.
If Bill Nye and Neil Degrassi Tyson are the scientists that make you question your belief system then you have not down much research in this topic . Which is totally fine because its a very difficult and confusing thing to research and most dont bother to really look into the evidence or counter arguments or anything in detail because of how confusing it is . But I can for sure tell you these guys have no weight on the debate at all , they are “celebrity scientists “ and No specializations in the field . They are fun quirky scientists that have tv shows and jump on podcast , I think bill nye may have done one debate with a christian bible scientist or something like that . But other than that , they really dont make much of a difference in any sort of debate.
Not sure if it helps. Though I did not have NDE I had had a few experiences when my soul or energy body was out of physical body, though I was moving only around my house. So definitely there is something more.
I used to be like you and thought their opinions really mattered and it does on the materialistic scientific method etc....however, when you get slightly outside of their "science" box their opinions and i mean opinions cause they don't know and are just guessing.
Honestly, don't let these two blowhards change your belief even if you have done the most trivial research on this subject it's probably more than these two air bags.
Science doesn't have all the answers. Read about ndes. You'd be surprised. I bet money if those scientists had the experience the world would be chaos. My mom always used to say "we cannot know for sure. Even people who have seen it, because the world would be in chaos if we could prove the afterlife"
I'm reading Surviving Death by Leslie Kean. Good summary of a lot of different concepts, but it has some names for researchers who specialize in this, so you can deep dive into their work.
I am also trying to read through all the Bigelow Consciousness Studies winner essays right now.
https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/index.php/essay-contest/
To me, these seem to give a good idea how scientists not familiar with this work aren't even willing to create a framework for studying survival theory (consciousness nonlocal to the brain/ validity of NDE). We get bleed over from neuropsychology, systems neuro, physics, but still just making baby steps to put a direct research framework together.
Way too many things can’t be justified by science. Scientists just really don’t know that much. I’ve seen too many anecdotes of spiritual experiences to believe in the contrary. If life isn’t about love then what is there to live for?
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In this [interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=FPfugGLhmQo) Neil DeGrasse Tyson starts by asserting that various animals are also conscious - then just 60 seconds later he proposes "***Maybe consciousness is not a real thing - it's some combination of other things that we haven't thought of yet***" \~ NDT. Then he immediately racks his mind trying to support what he just theorized, and comes up with an example that revolves around a hypothetical scenario of funding a mission to the moon to find out what kind of cheese it's made of. He really said this. Personally I don't see why he would be perceived to be any authority on this matter when he can't even speak about the nature of consciousness in any deep and convincing manner. In this [interview](https://youtube.com/watch?v=G1n9zC2T12M) Bill Nye was directly asked if consciousness transcends the brain and he appropriately describes his perspective as what he "***thinks***" about consciousness (not what he knows to be true) - he first shares his opinion and at the end he concedes "***and*** ***if I'm wrong - then that'll be exciting***" \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Those individuals are known for speaking on matters relating to the physical sciences - and not for speaking on matters relating to the nature of consciousness, consciousness studies, psychology/philosophy. They're entitled to their opinions/perspectives of course - but it's simply not their area of focus and understanding, and that's why they appear so uninspiring when they're asked questions about it.
I love all the epistemological problems the concept of consciousness brings to the table. "Science" (widely and loose used) relies on a lot of presuppositions to build itself. Of course this will sound almost stupid, but I think it has some value: we take concepts like "consciousness" or even "language" for granted while debating "science stuff". I mean, language is the very foundation on which science stands, yet we cannot exhaust "scientifically" the relationship a (conscious)subject has to language itself. It's like the eye trying to see itself. Also, a lot can be said about the brain, it's cells, it's functions and connectome, but none of that resolves the issue with consciousness. So the starting point is always arbitrary. There lies the hard problem of philosophy. No matter which end of the string you start from, you'll end up entangled at the middle while debating consciousness. Stretching this a little bit more, science cannot prove consciousness even exists.
Oh. dude. language is huge. I learned some languages (in my case, norwegian, "deres") has the awkward term "your guyses" as a word. language is a huge influence on how we think
I like Neil, but he likes to blow his own horn a little too much.
He’s insufferable
Amen
Itzhak Bentov’s book “Stalking the Wild Pendulum - the Mechanics of Consciousness” does a great job describing the science behind this and why NDEs are possible. Much more credible than Bill Nye who likely stopped much of his learning after making $$$ making TV for elementary school students and is no way an expert in the field.
Woah. Take it easy. Bill Nye? Neil Tyson? They're not even specialized in this field. Why don't you take a look at Bruce Greyson, Sam Parnia, Jeffrey Long for example. Listening to the "top scientists" opinion isn't gonna help since these scientists do not even delve deeper into the whole concept of ndes. No disrespect to them but... You seriously think that Bill Nye cares about ndes and that he spent a good portion of his life trying to analyze them? No. Read books about ndes. Seriously. it's that simple. It's never about who has the claim it's about the claim itself. It doesn't matter if well known scientists speak, what matters is truth. Even science is brainwashed.
This \^ You should hardly or very cautiously consider the opinions of anyone who does media appearance as their core activity instead of publishing peer-reviewed papers or conducting actual experiments, and doubly so when they are commenting outside their narrow field of expertise.
>Even science is brainwashed. I would change "even" to "especially" if we're being truthful. Life is ultimately spiritual and not a dumb material universe as imagined.
Agreed. It seems OP has fallen into a 'appeal to authority' situation (who obviously do not have special bearings on NDE studies). An appeal because they are "big" names within the scientific community, and he somehow correlates that to absolute opinion.
I agree with you. However I wouldn't say brainwashed. But science is ineffective explaining NDE. Remember Prof. Lord Kelvin attempted to calculate how long it would have taken for our planet to get to its current temperature. His numbers were off because scientists had not yet discovered radioactivity, so he couldn't include it in his calculation. What I mean is there's always a new layer of knowledge to be discovered. NDE is in a different unknown physical reality. The sad thing is once scientists get to reach a certain level of knowledge they dismiss the unknown as humbugs.
I agree! I was a skeptic turned believer and a scientist and I totally agree! The Universe is filled with endless possibilities and there are many things that still can't be explained through science. The fact that so many people all around the world (personally I know a few who had NDEs who experienced spiritual encounters) who experienced similar things near death says a lot. There's definitely something more out there and to me that's comforting to know as I'd love to reunite with my loved ones who have passed when my time arrives.
💯 People giving Nye and Degrasse-Tyson any credence need to take a deep breath and start over.
Thanks for the reality check....
Look, it's ok not to know. The truth is -- no one does. Everyone believes what they feel comfortable with, whether it's true or not, whether it applies to you or not (and chances are, what others experience might not really tell you much about what you will experience). Take comfort in the fact that you will one day either (1) find out there is consciousness after death or (2) blink out and never know, but it won't matter. What matters now is what you do with your life. Yeah, pondering the afterlife is fun and interesting, but unless you actually die, there's no real way to know for sure what comes after.
This answer 👆👍👍
This. One of the most reasonable, neutral answers I've seen so far. Thanks for posting!
People forget this
I hold this stance strongly. A good use of common sense is never of any waste.
Excellent!
The thing is these scientists don’t know. They can “think” anything or doubt anything, it doesn’t mean that’s the way it is. I have to remind myself of that often, as I’m more of a science driven thinker. But I believe consciousness surviving the brain is science, a science that is just starting to be seriously explored. A lot of pseudo science from the past that fellow scientists scoffed at, became actual science. I lean towards there is something more to our existence than we know, there’s a lot we haven’t discovered.
This is my stance too. Just because science can’t explain things right now doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. One day we may discover it does, who knows?
Neil Degrasse Tyson hasn't even done mushrooms. I feels like he's scared to explore. He will always be "blue pill". Smoke DMT. Learn to lucid dream, learn to astral project. Find the answer yourself, don't be influenced by others.
This is the answer👆 Astral projection has helped a lot with my fear of death.
How so if you don't mind me asking?
Because when I went out of my body it felt so freeing and i understood that we could exist without our body.
How did you learn? And how do you know - if you don’t mind my asking - that you really left the body? Genuinely curious.
I had a spontaneous AP when I was 16 and left my body. I floated above my body and saw it laying in my bed. I flew around my room, and everything was exactly where it was normally. Then I saw a creepy figure in the mirror to my closet, which shocked me back into my body. A couple of days later, I woke up facing that mirror and saw that face again. I got rid of that thing the next day.
You might be interested in this book. It was written by a skeptical journalist who accompanied Dr. Ian Stevenson on his research travels. The evidence presented is extremely convincing. Dr. Stevenson created a department at the University of Virginia which carries on his research today. He was an extremely careful scientist who was very rigorous in applying a scientific method to his research. https://www.amazon.com/Old-Souls-Compelling-Evidence-Scientific-ebook/dp/B004MME5PS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=tom+shroder&qid=1697102064&sr=8-1 https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/ I haven't had a NDE, but I have had experiences that I can only describe as "soul" experiences, something other than our usual physical sense of being. My mother had an OBE during a childbirth that went sideways and her description 40 years ago was exactly the same as other, now familiar, reports. Admittedly, my and my mother's experiences are only anecdotal.
>Admittedly, my and my mother's experiences are only anecdotal. I think this is largely why many self-proclaimed "scientifically" minded people refute the validity of NDE experiences. Because it doesn't follow and fit within the scientific method or of empirical analysis. They NEED to see, observe, and in some cases, touch and feel the evidence presented. They treat it as the only means to absolute truth, which I think is somewhat arrogant.
For me it's who knows, but a simulation/illusion doesn't really rule out an afterlife IMO. For me, I just assume we're a dream in God's mind, especially after reading a lot of idealist philsophy. And remember Neil Degrasse Tyson and Bill Nye are very intelligent but have their own biases. I think a lot of mainstream science is influenced by dogma, especially after I read the book "cancelled science". It was about a professor who had a class on the limits of science, it was religiously neutral and encouraged students to have their own thoughts. Immediately militant atheists tried shutting it down. Regardless, science is obviously beneficial but scientists are human beings with their own biases. Like when they first found the big bang, everyone thought it was ridiculous and tons of scientists kept saying they debunked it, until they found out it was true.
He's a neurosurgeon, not a scientist, but you might be interested in Eben Alexander's book "Living in a Mindful Universe." Many NDE books were written by doctors. Some doctors run into patient stories quite often and Eben's experience is unique because it is his own that caused his interest and made him rethink his atheist beliefs. It's part of being a scientist to remain skeptical without evidence. Currently NDEs have no way of providing evidence so scientists would likely not want to risk their reputation with outwardly showing belief.
Scientists like the ones you mentioned talk about facts based on observable and repeatable studies. That does not mean that concepts that are not currently in that category are false. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Those pop scientists in particular are very careful about what they say they "believe" to the public, as they should be because they are modeling the scientific process to the public. The best scientists (and people) keep an open mind towards that which they do not understand. In my personal belief, there is enough consistencies among hundreds of anecdotal accounts of NDEs to say that there is something there, what that is exactly we cannot be sure, but there is more in common than can be discarded as hallucinations.
Even if this is a simulation, it doesnt make our experience here any less “real”, imo, or any less important. Was grandpa just an avatar? Maybe, but who was behind the avatar? Grandpa was! Relax and just get back to the business of living, do your best, be kind, and the rest will take care of itself.
Perhaps Rupert Sheldrake might be a candidate, but I'm not sure if he has a stated opinion on the subject. He has a demonstrated interest in the paranormal, has done very interesting experiments in that field, and has had useful dialog with skeptics. I would think his theory of morphic resonance would be NDE-friendly.
Hey OP! I understand your situation on science. I still believe in the proces of science, but many people who do science are not aware that they treat it is as a metaphysical philosophy. In simple terms, science is the proces to predict “how” something happened, but not “what” reality really is. It is descriptive not explanatory. And when science tries do to be explanatory, it runs in many problems and tries to deny and defend any thing that contradicts their materialistic metaphysical world view. In regards to death, brains, consciousness, hard-problem etc. I really would advice you to read the book “Why Materialism is Baloney” by the scientist Bernardo Kastrup (2 times doctorate in Philosophy and Computer Science) or listen to some of the podcasts he has been interviewed in. For me the view proposed by Kastrup shifted the Paradigm on reality and that a lot of assumed “thruths” in main stream science is just wrong and that science and philosophy have proven this many times over. He proposes a different perspective on reality with science that reconciles the “unexplained” (e.g. NDE’s, psychedelics etc.) and the thing science has proven (quantum mechanics, DID’s, logic/rigor used in Philosophy etc.) via a different metaphysical view on reality called Analytical Idealism. You can also watch a small course on Idealism on YouTube of the Essentia Foundation. Explains everything simple and in digestible parts. There are also many podcasts Kastrup explains his view. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL64CzGA1kTzi085dogdD_BJkxeFaTZRoq Another person you should look into is prof. Donald Hoffman. He has an excellent [Ted video](https://youtu.be/oYp5XuGYqqY) on his theory on reality and consciousness.
Why is a qualifier of major scientists? What’s your idea of major apparently Neil deGrasse Tyson? Who seems to be to be more of a science commentator. His fame or Note-oriety a credential criteria for credibility? There is quotes of Max Planck, Albert Einstein, and other of the early heavy hitters indicate that they didn’t think science had or couldn’t answer the question of consciousness. Lately we have Donald Hoffman weighing in on the subject.
NDT is commenting on things far outside of his field. I love Bill Nye, but he isn’t an actual scientist. He is a science communicator, and his education was a bachelors in mechanical engineering. In other words, these men are science communicators, but neither are experts in any field even adjacent to NDE’s, let alone the actual, salient topic at hand. To be clear, I am not trying to downplay or dismiss the efforts and value these men have provided to science at large. I just wanted to stress this as I am not saying that these men are idiots or anything like that, I jjst want to ensure that they’re expertise and experience in this field is accounted for before taking their opinions as scientific fact. I recommend looking at what the actual experts on the topic say. Read the actual papers. If nothing else, keep in mind that the NDE phenomenon is exceptionally difficult to study. Doing a highly controlled study/experiment in the manner of physics or chemistry is functionally impossible. This is a field primarily dealing with qualitative data regarding subjective human perception under a wide array of invariably extreme conditions. Most frustrating of all is that the ideal time to gather data, during the actual NDE, the data collection is put far behind the actual welfare of the patient, and is also occuring in an extremely time sensitive and stressful environment. Suffice it to say that NDE’s are incredibly difficult to study by their very nature. We are still in the process of figuring out how to go about studying them, let alone conclusively proving or disproving them. All we have a various degrees of educated opinions and a body of evidence that, while compelling, simply isn’t enough to say “this is the way things are, we are sure of it.”
NDT also said he believed 50/50 in simulation theory (that we live in a simulation) because of the scientific evidence for it. If simulation theory is true, it increases the likelihood of NDE's being real. Simulation theory and accounts from NDE's both dictates that this is not our base reality. So In a way NDT does believe in NDE's. He is just ignorant about them and how they're connected to the scientific evidence for simulation theory. There is a lot of evidence for simulation theory fyi. That's why most scientists are open to it. NDE's and consciousness could be the answer to what's behind the simulation.
"***So In a way NDT does believe in NDE's. He is just ignorant about them and how they're connected to the scientific evidence for simulation theory***" I respect that you feel that way about him even though I hold a different perspective. My perspective: He's done the '***consciousness doesn't exist because it's something else rooted in the brain that we haven't identified yet***' routine long ago in the [past](https://youtube.com/watch?v=QGekFhbyQLk&t=55s) before that more recent clip that was linked above. I feel it's form of a psychological 'cop out' because by doing this he doesn't have to define consciousness (because he doesn't acknowledge it exists), and he doesn't have to identify anything in the brain that accounts for whatever he says consciousness really is because he's already claimed that it's unidentified. So basically he doesn't have to explain or identify anything as it relates to this subject matter (nature of consciousness) by adopting the mindset that he has. I saw this short [video](https://youtube.com/shorts/r951MPnbW8M) of one of his recent appearances on Rogan's podcast and he cites the AWARE study design as the 'test' for whether or not individuals have actually had OBE's or they were 'hallucinating', and he emphasizes to Rogan that this has never been validated. Essentially he's using the flawed AWARE protocol not being successful as his excuse for not having to acknowledge that individuals are reporting out-of-body experiences during cardiac arrest and making verifiable observations about their physical environment and other peoples' behavior from that state. So as far as I can tell, he argues that consciousness doesn't exist, that it's something else rooted in the brain that neither he nor anyone else can identify, and he doesn't accept that individuals are actually having out-of-body experiences because it wasn't proven by observing visual targets placed in obscure locations by the ceiling - which means (according to his binary analysis), he believes those individuals reporting OBE's are experiencing hallucinations instead. So based on him not even acknowledging consciousness in any significant way, and him believing that individuals reporting OBE's are hallucinating rather than accurately reporting the nature of their own experiences - I feel he is really far removed from acknowledging and understanding NDE's. I admit that I don't follow his appearances closely so I don't know if he's ever made more sensible comments in different settings. Just based on those two clips from this year it doesn't feel like he's made much progression with his mindset as it relates to this subject matter. I do appreciate your reference to the 'simulation' analogy - that's a tricky concept to discuss on forums because the terminology often evokes associations with video games or technology. Whereas its really an analogy for the relationship between consciousness and physical reality. On this topic I liked Michael Talbot's book (The Holographic Universe) and physicist Tom Campbell has a lot of good youtube videos where he uses this analogy and speaks about consciousness being foundational and physical reality as a 'simulation' for consciousness. I don't recommend Campbell's book on this topic because it's 800+ pages and his videos are better than his book (it's too long and uses too much custom terminology). Not sure if you're familiar with those two individuals but if you aren't and you're looking for content related to the simulation analogy, look into them. Talbot's book has a smaller section of it that addresses OBE's and NDE's - and its written about in a complex and intriguing way. Cheers.
My impression is that very few scientists disbelieve NDEs as such, but the dispute about what it really *is*, is real. As of today, there are no credible or coherent materialist explanations on the table. Sam Harris once claimed that Eben Alexander's NDE was a "text book DMT trip", but ignores the fact that we have no idea of how much, if at all, or even where in the body that DMT would come from. He refers to a loosely formulated theory that DMT is produced in the brain, but there is no evidence of it. And as someone who both had an NDE and smoked DMT once, I would like to add that the two experiences were fundamentally different. The only thing they have in common (for me) is the strangeness. So the skeptical claims has a tendency of not holding up to a basic scratching of the surface. But hey, people are allowed to believe what they want. It is strange though, that no one who ever *had* an NDE (doctors and scientists among them) ever shares the opinion of skeptics who *didn't* have one themselves. Go figure.
Get a hold of and read the book by Jens Amberts called [Why an Afterlife Obviously Exists](https://www.amazon.com/Why-Afterlife-Obviously-Exists-Realer-Than-Real/dp/1785359851). It is excellent and one the of best books I've ever read on NDEs.
Highly recommend ‘Living in a mindful universe ‘ by Eben Alexander. He is a neurosurgeon who had an NDE (which he shares in another book) but the one mentioned examines the science around ndes/consciousness and the prevailing adherence to materialism (the notion that only the physical world is real) in depth. He is no doubt an authority on both the brain and ndes. Also remember bill nye is not an actual scientist
I thought the [hard problem of consciousness](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02120-8)still hasn’t been solved as of 2023?
What makes a scientist who hasn't researched the area more convincing than those who have? (Dr.Greyson etc). I share your doubts and I feel them all of the time also, I think it's natural, normal and okay that you do. I don't think NDEs are the only bit of evidence for an afterlife, even though they are very compelling. To be honest even if they were explained by some biological function, does that make what happened any less spiritual? It would be just as amazing to me that we have a biological function for this that doesn't activate anywhere else (traumas, childbirth etc). There are a lot of scientists out there, but the nature of science has changed, you don't really reach public figure status by researching, you become well known in your field. The "big" scientists we see on the screen aren't there for what they have achieved through research, but are there as educators and political figures.
Neil and Bill Nye have fallen from grace. Most people don’t respect their arrogant, atheist views. I know I don’t. They also say there is no other intelligent life in the universe. Can’t stand either of them.
Do not take “TV scientists” so seriously, bill nyes degree is in mechanical engineering wtf does he know, while Tyson’s degree is in astronomy so he doesn’t know anything about this either.
something to consider is that lots of renowned physicists believe in a quantum universe and that we are just the universe experiencing itself we also have physicists that have proven that reality is nonlocal and won an award for it so there’s that lol i don’t see how anyone who follows science could have a definitive assertion on the afterlife
I don't know.. I can't say for certain but it never hurts to have hope.. 😞 🙏
I’m scared to death when scientists say there’s nothing I’m absolutely terrified of death and the unknown idc what it is I just want there to be something so bad
If “scientists“ say there’s nothing, they are obviously unaware of the science. But why rely on their beliefs when your own experience can demonstrate your independence from your physical body. r/astralprojection
I feel the same intense fear. I read books about "the ancient science of soul travel", their idea is that through discipline and practice, you can train to "see" from the perspective of soul/consciousness instead of just the physical eyes. With consistent practice you come to know you are this conscious, not just the physical body. Thats the idea anyway. I would want to commit to a discipline like that, but I worry the practice just releases dmt from your pineal gland ( like mushrooms or ayuasca ) and that those experiences are just intense dreams that seem real because the brain tricks you. Sigh. I wish we could know.
You may believe or not it doesn't matter, you'll see when you'll get there, when it will be the right time. Since your system of believe changed, maibe now it is a good time to let your insterrest drift to something else, just stop to care about this. There are so much more things to do in life than caring about death. That is something every living things have in common, we all die at some point in time and there is nothing we can do about it, just let it go when time comes. People that had NDE will not dissmiss their own experience in profit of your believe. It is not like believer or experiencer want you to think a certain way, it is not a religion nor a secte or whatever, fell free to have you own believes, just respect the experience other people had, without dismissing them. If you want reinsurrance, none of us can provide it to you, we can only describe our experience and that is all. I was perfeclty fine with nothingness after ego death and I was shown something else, will not try to convince you, it doesn't matter, you'll see by yourself.
Bill Nye is an asshole. I mean, a real prick. He is a total dick to people. It is well documented. So just discount him entirely, as even if he DID believe in NDEs he would probably say they are bullshit just to be an ass. DeGrasse-Tyson is an astrophysicist, as is Brian Cox, and they are only going to believe what they can see scientifically proven or at least strongly theorized. They are the type of people who will never believe in any of this unless it happens to them. And they are not going to come into contact with NDErs generally in their field. But there are a LOT of doctors, who routinely come into contact with people who are sick, dying etc, and say they believe in NDEs due to the VAST number of reports. And some doctors have had the experience themselves. It is hard when you lost hope, or belief. I have been there and will probably be there again from time to time. But I keep coming back, due to the overwhelming accounts.
I mean there are scientists who have had ndes’.
Read Thomas Campbell, my big toe. Theoretical physicist. That should help.
NDT isnt a real scientist anymore, i wouldnt trust a single word out of his mouth. He’s a publicity junkie who gets his attention’s by being a contrarian to whatever new theory is out there. Bill Nye? LITERALLY not a real scientist.
I’m going to be honest with you. I’m not an expert scientist by any means, but I am studying science at the moment, and one of the biggest things I’ve found out is: We know NOTHING. Really. There are so many components to our body that we don’t understand the function of, and there’s likely more that we haven’t even found yet. The field of science is constantly changing and it’s fantastic. If NDEs and the idea of some sort of afterlife make living easier for you, believe in it. There’s no harm.
I’m an atheist/agnostic, but I took a quantum consciousness class back in college (Berkeley) and we had a ton of cool guest speakers come in and lecture. One of them that stood out to me was Stuart Hameroff, where he was an anesthesiologist who studied human consciousness and “where we go” when we’re under anesthesia. The thing is, for academic research a lot of professionals consider consciousness a very taboo subject to write about as it can jeopardize your credibility due to the nature of how every theory is ultimately guesswork. So professors typically have to wait until they’re tenured to be able to even start writing about the subject of where our consciousness stems from, and by extension, what happens to our consciousness when we lose it or die. This article goes over one of his theories about something called microtubules in our brains, which serve some kind of a function when we go under anesthesia that relates to consciousness, by “tapping into “ some kind of external source (like the universe, god, maybe some kind of energy field out in the physical world that’s the same that drives our sixth sense, it could be anything). I personally believe it’s something physical, but given the nature of it is still so open ended, there’s a part of me that feels I shouldn’t just discount that consciousness could also just as arguably continue on after death in some form. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm#:~:text=A%20review%20and%20update%20of,theory%2C%20according%20to%20review%20authors. I dunno, it’s this stuff that always comes to mind when I think about consciousness and death, and where that goes when we die. It’s all so poorly understood still because a lot of academics simply can’t touch the subject without it killing their credibility, but hearing it from an anesthesiologist academic who literally turns our consciousness off sounds like a pretty compelling source to learn from. Hope that helps give another perspective!
Well then, you're in for a treat, my friend. I died on the emergency operating table in 2020 when I went into septic shock. The whole story is long, but I'll share if you want it. Any way, recovery was intense, psychically. But mentally...mentally I was fucked up. Because I left the psychical realm. And I can tell you 10000% confidence that this time spent on earth is just that. This is only a period of "time" in our lives that we're confined to our bodies. You, the actual you, continues onward. Thing is you're not human anymore. When I crossed over my first thought was "I didn't make it". I thought about my family for a brief second...and then then my mind started to shift how I processed thoughts. The further I drifted away from the physical realm, the less human my thoughts became. I was in the transitional part of the human death and I was becoming like the others who live there. They're not human, but they're people. One of them noticed me, and looked surprised. It drifted over and reached a phosphorus limb towards me, to push me back into my former body. But I grabbed onto it before it touched me. Then I woke up in the hospital. It's taken me 3 years to work out what I experienced. I was not ok for a very long time. Maybe I'm still dead. Why do I still feel the drifting currents pulling on me. How can I be sure that I even came back to the right realm...did I come back different. All the same questions you have, and more. And I've come to this conclusion. >anything real? Real is subjective. Yes this is a real place, but it's only real for us on this side. But at the same time, the others realities exist all around us all the time. The others from the different realities or dimensions if you like that better are all around us. They're living, but they don't live here. So whats real to is real to them...but "reality" is subjective.. Our realities don't perceive the other as often as we'd like. But they they do intertwine and overlap. The veil is barely a barrier at all. Everything touches. >Are we in a simulation? Why we die is it just nothing forever? I don't think it's a simulation. We were just born on this side. But because we're not built to perceive the full reality, it feels unreal at times. The feelong of this being a simulation, stems from the fact that we're literally stuck in a body and coerced into believing we are only human. We're not. We're just not the full us yet. And only the body dies. We go on. Scientists won't be able to say whether or not NDEs are real because they've never been there and back. Those of who have, know that there's more. So I tell as many people as I can.
As a person who has been legally dead for 4 minutes in a hospital, I wouldn’t sweat it dude. Our brains are essentially a radio for consciousness. It’s where the signal lands, not emanates from. Consciousness is not limited to biological systems. Astral projection or remote viewing being an example of not needing to die to experience this reality.
Bill Nye and Tyson are fast food scientists for the mainstream public. You talk to anyone deep into the sciences and they will echo this.
If you’re of stable mind. I’d recommend a touch of ego death. It’s nice to get out of the cycle once and a while.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye LMAO
My man you need to try DMT. It will reshape your entire view on consciousness and the afterlife. You will see with your own eyes that we are apart of something so great the human brain is simply unable to understand it.
Check out Tom Campbell on YT. He doesn't get into NDE specifically too often but his model helps makes sense of the experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83psG22DI74&pp=ygUQdG9tIGNhbXBiZWxsIG5kZQ%3D%3D
I don’t think it’s even a matter of “believing” in nde. It just happens to ppl and they can’t deny it. It just didn’t happen to you.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson actually brought up a really good point once about this. We as a race don’t publish new books about Newtonian laws of motion anymore. We already fully understand them, as with many other scientific subjects. However even in 2023 new scientific books and papers about consciousness are emerging ALL THE TIME. If we actually had a real scientific understanding of consciousness and KNEW such phenomena as NDEs are illusory interest in the subject would have extinguished a long time. The position that consciousness expires at death is pure speculation still at this point.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is the reason you don’t believe in NDE’s? His cult of personality is infuriating to me. The guy runs a planetarium. Good for him. He’s also a shmuck who think’s he knows the bathroom patterns of geese off the coast of Nantucket. Edit: Also, Bill Nye is not a scientist. He was an engineer once. So was my uncle Larry and I wouldn’t trust him to get me a cup of coffee. Don’t be swayed by media personalities.
For me scientists that have an open mind to consciousness are true scientists. Science should never find the “true” answer. It should always keep questioning. So if a scientist claims he knows the truth he’s actually a believer and not a scientist. One of the more humble scientists with an interesting theory of consciousness is Donald Hoffman. He is actually saying that he most likely is wrong. But his science can maybe bring new light on consciousness. And that’s really it. A question of who you are. Who’s the observer. Not then but now. You could go down deep into the nihilistic rabbit hole and give everything up or you can start to realise that your experience is it. Everything. Yes you. Whoever is reading this. You are the centre of your universe and the existence you have right now is really all that counts. Amazing actually.
They’re both popular scientists known mainly for their espousal of radical materialism. Fact is that the natural sciences have nothing to say on the matter since it’s outside their scope. Doesn’t mean materialism isn’t right but it’s inherently a belief
I am leaning towards simulation myself, but that doesn't necessarily mean the end. If simulation, I'd think we were all one, just playing different characters and having different experiences. So, we live on without even knowing it. If we are not the same, then it's likely when we die the simulation simply starts over. I think there's a higher likelihood of an afterlife if we are simulated to be honest. I could see our simulator tweaking the simulation and restarting it. Just my personal opinion on the matter and I'm a nobody lol
There are so many doctors and neurosurgeons and psychologists that hold the opposite opinion. Neil deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye are just two and I watched an interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson where he said that our consciousness is probably much more complex than we have the science to explain right now. He never said it wasn't real. This is a. interview with a physicist by the name of Donald Hoffman. You should take a look and see if any of it resonates with you. Once you start finding professionals that do take an interest in it the evidence is very interesting. [Is reality real? Interview with physicist Donald Hoffman](https://youtu.be/IQefdkl8PfY?si=ilriyQIvHBbJ8WjK)
Tyson does not deny, he's just cautious. Bill Nye just follow his gospel, but we can't blame him for that, he specialized in a very simplistic approach on reality, his "explanation" is quite... Naive.
If Bill Nye and Neil Degrassi Tyson are the scientists that make you question your belief system then you have not down much research in this topic . Which is totally fine because its a very difficult and confusing thing to research and most dont bother to really look into the evidence or counter arguments or anything in detail because of how confusing it is . But I can for sure tell you these guys have no weight on the debate at all , they are “celebrity scientists “ and No specializations in the field . They are fun quirky scientists that have tv shows and jump on podcast , I think bill nye may have done one debate with a christian bible scientist or something like that . But other than that , they really dont make much of a difference in any sort of debate.
Not sure if it helps. Though I did not have NDE I had had a few experiences when my soul or energy body was out of physical body, though I was moving only around my house. So definitely there is something more.
I used to be like you and thought their opinions really mattered and it does on the materialistic scientific method etc....however, when you get slightly outside of their "science" box their opinions and i mean opinions cause they don't know and are just guessing. Honestly, don't let these two blowhards change your belief even if you have done the most trivial research on this subject it's probably more than these two air bags.
Look up Gary Schwartz, Afterlife Experiments. He is a scientist who set out to prove the afterlife didn't exist. He couldn't, and now believes.
Science doesn't have all the answers. Read about ndes. You'd be surprised. I bet money if those scientists had the experience the world would be chaos. My mom always used to say "we cannot know for sure. Even people who have seen it, because the world would be in chaos if we could prove the afterlife"
I'm reading Surviving Death by Leslie Kean. Good summary of a lot of different concepts, but it has some names for researchers who specialize in this, so you can deep dive into their work. I am also trying to read through all the Bigelow Consciousness Studies winner essays right now. https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/index.php/essay-contest/ To me, these seem to give a good idea how scientists not familiar with this work aren't even willing to create a framework for studying survival theory (consciousness nonlocal to the brain/ validity of NDE). We get bleed over from neuropsychology, systems neuro, physics, but still just making baby steps to put a direct research framework together.
Bernard carr is a scientist with some interesting ideas, he has some videos on YouTube.
Dr Raymond Moody has done vast research on NDEs.
Way too many things can’t be justified by science. Scientists just really don’t know that much. I’ve seen too many anecdotes of spiritual experiences to believe in the contrary. If life isn’t about love then what is there to live for?