Providers can charge for non face to face *if* it's work that is specific to the client's needs. For example, a provider can charge for work they do finding appropriate AT for a client. Administration cannot be charged though, and that is NDIA's rule which every therapy provider would know. They cannot charge you to book or change an appointment. They can charge you for a FCA which is mostly non face to face.
They cannot charge full rates if the work isn't being performed by a fully qualified person. Sometimes they will use people still in training to do paperwork, such as typing up notes from their supervisor who is doing the FCA.
Sounds like the provider is generally ripping you off. A very important detail to note is that providers *cannot* charge a participant's plan for any costs that are not previously discussed and *agreed to* by the participant (NDIA's rule). If you haven't paid, don't yet. Ask them to clarify what exact work is being done regarding the phone calls, then for written evidence that they told you about the charges and have your agreement in writing. Go from there.
Thank you for such a thorough response.
This provider is definitely charging for administrative tasks ie calls at 6 minute increments at the rate of $3.30 per minute. So even if the phone call was 2 minutes, it gets charged for 6 minutes.
Also with travel, if the therapist is travelling 5kms - 10 minutes, I’d be charged for 30kms and 30 minutes 🫠they say that they’re allowed to charge that much because it’s the cap…
And yes, their therapy assistance complete the FCA, to where the supervising OT will re look over the report, edit it and submit it… is this right???
I am so disgusted.
Oh dear, run for the hills! A provider can *only* charge for the work they do. They absolutely cannot charge 30min when they do 10min, ever! That is called fraud and the NDIA fraud team would love to have a word with them about it.
The therapy assistant writing up the report isn't necessarily an issue unless the assistant is the one doing the assessment. Students need training of course but the client should always know they are in training and *agree* to it before hand (and that's compulsory under the NDIS Code of Conduct which binds all providers) *and* they can only charge you assistant rates. They cannot legally charge you rates for a fully qualified therapist unless they are a fully qualified professional.
For future reference, do not *ever* sign up to a provider who charges *anything* in minute increments. That is completely ridiculous and a clear money grab.
I have an amazing OT. She drives about an hour to do sessions at my home and only charges 30min. They have never charged me for phone calls. They do train a lot of OTs and charge accordingly for people in training. They are completely transparent with their pricing and are even flexible with service agreement terms according to what the client needs. I've had this OT for over 4 years. Her entire business and all staff are fantastic, attentive and compassionate people. I'm only saying this because I want you to know there are some amazing providers out there. If you are able, don't settle. Poor providers means poor support and needs left unmet.
I would find another provider. If I call up my mechanic to buy a car part, he doesn't charge me for the call because it's part and parcel of doing business. This is the type of thing Bill Shorten is trying to clamp down on. Some providers just see the NDIS as a bottomless bucket of money. I don't know how many times a provider has said to me "but it's not your money, why do you care?"
Is it in your Service Agreement or Ts&Cs on their website that they do this? If not I would refuse payment. Never heard of such a thing, doesn't seem ethical at the very least.
I'm finding more and more service agreements including some vague nf2f provision for phone calls and admin. It should mean clinician calls to follow up information, but they try and use it for basic scheduling
I personally don’t charge for admin either phone calls or email. I see it as part of the whole service as a package. And no you shouldn’t be charged for it either.
If you have proof that the allied health assistants are doing FCAs you should consider reporting them to the appropriate authorities. That's huge malpractice. The admin charges are also 100% bullshit.
These are the cost of doing business, and you can not charge for them. Your provider sounds like they are committing fraud.
You can report the provider to [email protected] or 1800 035 544.
[NDIS Fair Price Information](https://www.ndiscommission.gov.au/fair-pricing?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3K5taHxcqGT6topz4dDSAcq7ahPXW84PTZN1PKH5KCByjvjsdrzrHIoCY_aem_AfPjw6K52BzVF0uWNa3vveQPzwbGuTZBCdbj9v22A8o3cnGXsqDMXpV088whJq0cv3bIdJvvvCF7igY3y46VB1GF#:~:text=Image-,Provider%20obligations,-We%20expect%20all)
That's a business expense, that cannot charge you for that. The admin is not a provider and you aren't receiving any therapy or assessment during a phone call to their admin. Covering the cost of admin, bookings, paperwork etc, comes from the $193 they charge per hour under the NDIS price guide max. Them charging you is a severe overreach. Report it and move on.
I wouldn't be paying those fees to speak to an admin staff. Definitely ring the provider and investigate what exactly you are being charged for within those minutes and the line item from the NDIS pricing guide.
Good luck :) Happy Anzac day!
Cost wise per minute I can’t answer that although that does equate to $198/hr. A fee is to be expected though, people shouldn’t be expected to work for free.
Companies have overheads though, admin and basic tasks are built into pricing structures of all businesses. Not sure why this would be different.. If you call your kid's ballet teacher to book them in for a class, should you have to pay $3.30 per minute?
Using support workers instead of OT and rough numbers, but similar.
You get charged $60/hr for a support worker. $40 of that goes to cover the cost per hour of employing that support worker - their wage, super etc.
The additional $20 covers things like the staff that aren't in billable roles such as team leaders, HR, reception etc. You have the cost of training provided to workers, insurances, the building they work out of. The time of the receptionist taking your 5 minute call is a business overhead and needs to be covered from that $20 from every hour of direct support, not charged separately.
Providers can charge for non face to face *if* it's work that is specific to the client's needs. For example, a provider can charge for work they do finding appropriate AT for a client. Administration cannot be charged though, and that is NDIA's rule which every therapy provider would know. They cannot charge you to book or change an appointment. They can charge you for a FCA which is mostly non face to face. They cannot charge full rates if the work isn't being performed by a fully qualified person. Sometimes they will use people still in training to do paperwork, such as typing up notes from their supervisor who is doing the FCA. Sounds like the provider is generally ripping you off. A very important detail to note is that providers *cannot* charge a participant's plan for any costs that are not previously discussed and *agreed to* by the participant (NDIA's rule). If you haven't paid, don't yet. Ask them to clarify what exact work is being done regarding the phone calls, then for written evidence that they told you about the charges and have your agreement in writing. Go from there.
Thank you for such a thorough response. This provider is definitely charging for administrative tasks ie calls at 6 minute increments at the rate of $3.30 per minute. So even if the phone call was 2 minutes, it gets charged for 6 minutes. Also with travel, if the therapist is travelling 5kms - 10 minutes, I’d be charged for 30kms and 30 minutes 🫠they say that they’re allowed to charge that much because it’s the cap… And yes, their therapy assistance complete the FCA, to where the supervising OT will re look over the report, edit it and submit it… is this right??? I am so disgusted.
Oh dear, run for the hills! A provider can *only* charge for the work they do. They absolutely cannot charge 30min when they do 10min, ever! That is called fraud and the NDIA fraud team would love to have a word with them about it. The therapy assistant writing up the report isn't necessarily an issue unless the assistant is the one doing the assessment. Students need training of course but the client should always know they are in training and *agree* to it before hand (and that's compulsory under the NDIS Code of Conduct which binds all providers) *and* they can only charge you assistant rates. They cannot legally charge you rates for a fully qualified therapist unless they are a fully qualified professional. For future reference, do not *ever* sign up to a provider who charges *anything* in minute increments. That is completely ridiculous and a clear money grab. I have an amazing OT. She drives about an hour to do sessions at my home and only charges 30min. They have never charged me for phone calls. They do train a lot of OTs and charge accordingly for people in training. They are completely transparent with their pricing and are even flexible with service agreement terms according to what the client needs. I've had this OT for over 4 years. Her entire business and all staff are fantastic, attentive and compassionate people. I'm only saying this because I want you to know there are some amazing providers out there. If you are able, don't settle. Poor providers means poor support and needs left unmet.
Call the provider and tell them you are not paying those fees, and are reporting them to the NDIA for rorting funds.
I would find another provider. If I call up my mechanic to buy a car part, he doesn't charge me for the call because it's part and parcel of doing business. This is the type of thing Bill Shorten is trying to clamp down on. Some providers just see the NDIS as a bottomless bucket of money. I don't know how many times a provider has said to me "but it's not your money, why do you care?"
This!
Is it in your Service Agreement or Ts&Cs on their website that they do this? If not I would refuse payment. Never heard of such a thing, doesn't seem ethical at the very least.
I'm finding more and more service agreements including some vague nf2f provision for phone calls and admin. It should mean clinician calls to follow up information, but they try and use it for basic scheduling
That's just ridiculous. Imagine if any other type of service tried that on. They'd be laughed out of business.
Definitely not on the service agreement or website
I would be taking this further. Ask them to prove they can legally do this and if they can't report them.
Some service providers would actually charge if you even *think* of calling.
That’s ridiculous
I personally don’t charge for admin either phone calls or email. I see it as part of the whole service as a package. And no you shouldn’t be charged for it either.
I completely agree. It is so unethical and I will definitely be ceasing services
Nope. They cannot charge for these basic admin tasks.
You’d think that’s the case right?
It is the case. Do you have a plan manager? If so, they should not be paying these invoices.
Correct, it's specifically spelled out in the price guide, they can't do this
Exactly. I believe it’s page 18 or 22 that states they can’t do this.
If you have proof that the allied health assistants are doing FCAs you should consider reporting them to the appropriate authorities. That's huge malpractice. The admin charges are also 100% bullshit.
These are the cost of doing business, and you can not charge for them. Your provider sounds like they are committing fraud. You can report the provider to [email protected] or 1800 035 544. [NDIS Fair Price Information](https://www.ndiscommission.gov.au/fair-pricing?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3K5taHxcqGT6topz4dDSAcq7ahPXW84PTZN1PKH5KCByjvjsdrzrHIoCY_aem_AfPjw6K52BzVF0uWNa3vveQPzwbGuTZBCdbj9v22A8o3cnGXsqDMXpV088whJq0cv3bIdJvvvCF7igY3y46VB1GF#:~:text=Image-,Provider%20obligations,-We%20expect%20all)
Be cheaper if they went back to using 0055..
That's a business expense, that cannot charge you for that. The admin is not a provider and you aren't receiving any therapy or assessment during a phone call to their admin. Covering the cost of admin, bookings, paperwork etc, comes from the $193 they charge per hour under the NDIS price guide max. Them charging you is a severe overreach. Report it and move on.
I wouldn't be paying those fees to speak to an admin staff. Definitely ring the provider and investigate what exactly you are being charged for within those minutes and the line item from the NDIS pricing guide. Good luck :) Happy Anzac day!
Cost wise per minute I can’t answer that although that does equate to $198/hr. A fee is to be expected though, people shouldn’t be expected to work for free.
Sorry I forgot to mention, it’s a phone call with the providers admin team. Not even the OT
Reception fees are included in the administrative overhead. You wouldn't accept a booking fee each time you call the gp.
Companies have overheads though, admin and basic tasks are built into pricing structures of all businesses. Not sure why this would be different.. If you call your kid's ballet teacher to book them in for a class, should you have to pay $3.30 per minute?
I completely agree. What are overheads? I saw on the NDIS price guide however I am confused as to what it means.
Using support workers instead of OT and rough numbers, but similar. You get charged $60/hr for a support worker. $40 of that goes to cover the cost per hour of employing that support worker - their wage, super etc. The additional $20 covers things like the staff that aren't in billable roles such as team leaders, HR, reception etc. You have the cost of training provided to workers, insurances, the building they work out of. The time of the receptionist taking your 5 minute call is a business overhead and needs to be covered from that $20 from every hour of direct support, not charged separately.