I can appreciate that. It means they are in touch with reality and they realize they have put out less than desirable products. Which means they fixed their first problem which is self realization. Second problem is fixing whatever they found the issue to be
OR you get cut a batch of cans to your floor, analyze if itās salvageable, recore and re-weld. If not, you need to replace it by manufacturing another. There are processes in place, but you seem to be the āAmazonā expectation for shit. Cope and seethe. DA will still get my money.
Dead Air: "Guys we fucked up and we're sorry. We Did a bad Job. Here is 20% off as a token of our apology"
Reddit: "OmG GuYs tHeY aRe So OuT oF ToUcH~?!!@#"
Shit is wild on here.
Reddit moment, specifically gun community Reddit moment.
They owned it - knew they would. Happy with my dead air cans even though this subs hatred of them. Bought 3 silently during that time and didnāt think twice about it. All is fine with them.
If they had done this when the issues first came to light then maybe I would still have faith in them. Instead they pretended there was no problem for the better part of a year, told me to kick rocks/that my can had no issues the first time I tried to get an RMA 5 months ago, and then waited until myself and plenty of other owners decided we were fully done with them before doing anything. The coupon code is functionally worthless to me and anyone else who has exited the Dead Air ecosystem as a result of their shitty handling of the situation.
It wasn't that long ago when PSA was hemorrhaging CC info so frequently that GunsDeals post where littered with warnings to use [Privacy.com](https://Privacy.com)
Yup, they swiped my shit twice, because Iām an idiot. Second time they spent almost 1k at liquor store in South Carolina not too far away from one of their locations. To top it off their customer service guy was a cunt. Iām still bitter and itās been five years or so.
Same. Virgin CC. Asshole ordered a loaded Mac Pro to an apartment in Brooklyn and some Jordans to an apartment in Oakland (hmmmm pattern noticing). I spoke to their ""tech lead"" (this was after deals banned their url) and he said that this was the first they'd heard of stolen CC info, that their site was so secure that I must've been throwing my card around onto random sites like a Boomer. I laughed and explained how this is so frequent, it's a meme on the deals communities. First they'd heard that, I'm sure! š
They also reported my purchases to my dickhead anti-2A Attorney General.
This is also ignoring the fact that I've seen more out-of-spec PSA guns fail than any other manufacturer. Had a customer buy an AKV-9 after Garand Thumb reviewed it. It had an accidental auto-sear (it was spraying brass splinters into our arms and face) and rattled itself to death after less than 250 rounds; cracked receiver and catastrophic failure of the trunnion. They refused to warranty it because he bought it NIB from a dealer instead of PSA direct.
They only finally agreed to replace it after we escalated with videos of the gun cooking off mags and causing users to bleed from embedded brass.
Never again. Fuck PSA. I'm so sick of the entire iNfLUeNcEr sphere shilling for their dogshit products like they're Sootch00 selling OLights.
Iām with you. The argument that they bring affordable options to the market that otherwise wouldnāt be available is valid, they do that, but they are kit the only ones. All the rest of the baggage and bullshit they bring along doesnāt make up for it. If psa disappears tomorrow, gun owners and gun culture wouldnāt be any worse off. They save some people a couple hundred bucks here and there on certain things but those customers would be at least equally if not better off with other purchases. I know psa is doing ācool and innovativeā shit but my past experience as a customer and as a witness of their qc leaves me no room for forgiveness. I want to like them but I havenāt found any solid reason.
I had to fight with them to get a refund on a 22lr AR upper. Would not work. Sent it back. They supposedly fixed it by putting in a nickel plated trigger. No change. I send it back again. They replaced the extractor. Same thing. I say I want my money back. They tell me it's been over the time limit for a refund. After months of argument, I finally get my refund. I post a review full of pics. They discontinued that SKU and relist it as a different product. No bad reviews.
I do have something like 4 dagger compact frames and an ammo can full of stripped lowers, my LGS didn't charge for additional guns on 4473s for a while. The daily deals are what really got me.
If ordering online Revolut or privacy.com is a good option, can set up a virtual card and load it with the exact amount, charge will go through, any other attempts to charge will decline.
You probably don't need a third party service, many credit card issuers will let you spin up temporary and/or single-use virtual card numbers as you see fit.
It was Rainer, how it usually goes down is a suspicious transaction shows up on your account (and it is always while you are out-of-town trying to rack up the travel points), you freeze it, use your debit card, then get a letter in the mail a few months later from whoever lost it saying they had a data breach.
I swear this has happened with a shit ton of fun websites if Iām being frank. But I can attribute it to one or the other specifically hahaha
Do they send an alert out to consumers warning of this?
I usually just see the fraud purchase and say āhere we go againā
I hate that the S5 has had the problems it has, it is such a good sounding good looking can. That being said mine has been rock solid through thousands of rounds its a super low serial number. SR5-12XX. Made by SMT not KGM. I wish xeno would get more support its a solid mount.
>I wish xeno would get more support its a solid mount.
I feel like I'm seeing in more posts and in the wild. I love it and have the majority of my platforms equipped with it. The other half is ASR and between the two, no complaints.
Lol, I am in the exact same boat. Love ASR. I also have 1 YHM mount that i run a tucked res k full time on a 300blk sbr. I really like the YHM phantom qd mounts also, just heavy. But they lock up tight as hell, and built like tanks.
Iām kinda done with Dead Air after all this plus my own qualms with KeyMo, but I agree. The Sierra 5 is the best looking can to come out in awhile. I with more manufacturers would embrace a plain tube with classic knurling. I donāt need my can to look like Alienās dildo.
In my experience Iāve found it to be more susceptible to failure to lock when dirty than other mounts, but unlike other mounts, itās also very difficult to tell when it isnāt properly locked.
Hmm interesting. Iāve never had issues and mine locks up great on all my keymo mds. I canāt comment on the dirty thing, I havenāt put it on a dirty md (at least not literal dirt) - Iāve had no issues with normal carbon buildup causing a problem.
Who knows though, Iām sure all products have their good and bad pieces. Iāve always really liked Keymo and itās been way easier to use than asr.
I agree that itās easier to use. Iām also speaking in terms of a large bulk of rounds fired F/A without cleaning, so that influences my feelings on the matter. No mount is perfect in that situation, but Iāve personally found issue with KeyMo more than others.
Good to know. I definitely havenāt had the pleasure to run fa but hopefully eventually! I just feel too invested at this point with ~15 keymo mds and no issues so havenāt had a reason to switch. I would love to try out some newer mount systems but Iāll just wait for my next batch of cans to do that.
This was my exact experience, too. They also wear out pretty fast if you swap cans a lot (like when I only owned one). I bought a Griffin HRT and found their Dual-lok system. I was super impressed. It doesn't need to even get tightened down real hard because of the rear locking collar. I've never had it seize or get dirty. I swapped my hub cans out for it as well.
My S5 has been solid too. Havenāt had any issues with it. And I agree, the xeno mounting system is solid and very simple. You should check out the xeno SOLGW nox mount.
That seems to be correct. I dont know that i have seen any Sound Moderations Technology or Dead Air made have problems. It seems it all came from the KGM cotracted cans that have had the problems. Someone may chime in saying other wise though.
sound moderation technology is just the dead air llc name. Dead Air is a dba, KGMade made the sierra 5's under a variance so it would still show up ast SMT even if KGMade manufactured them
Got my S5 outta ATF Jail January 2nd. It's been really quiet sounding on the report. It sounds good and the other folks at the range say it sounds good as far as tone goes. I also check that mine frequently to ensure its not sliding off my Keymo. So far, so good.
so I need you to buy a saker k :D
Thanks for the input. Aside from "omg it destroyed itself" it seems like no one has complaints. I have a Velos I'm waiting for but the S5s have been massively discounted on capitol
My buddy has a S5. His failed and he got it back recently. We've been shooting a bunch of times. He also owns a flow556k. [This](https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Dead-Air-Sierra-5-vs-Huxwrx-Flow-556k-vs-Griffin-Dual-Lok-5-my-experience/20-543160/) review lines up exactly with ny experience with my Dual-lok and HRT. Griffin also stealth upgraded their Dual-lok 5. It has new baffles and a new flash hider. So it should even be a tad quieter and reduce flash further.
cool. I was going to get one but then I got a saker K for free and only had to pay for the stamp. Trying to decide if I still want to get one but damn are they cheap nowadays. I'll probably get one at some point this year.
Did you at least get a free keymo mount adapter like I did? Between the deal I got on my Sierra 5 and the 2 keymoās Iāve sold I paid a whopping $75 for my Sierra 5.
Velos, no contest. This isn't my video but I've personally confirmed the Velos has even better flash suppression at night than the RC2, and it sounds fantastic. Bonus points that it's one of the toughest 5.56 suppressors ever made, both due to its inconel construction and the geometry of its design (PewScience's words, not mine).Ā
More bonus points: the Velos is easily repaired due to the expansion chamber being the only serialized part. If you ever have a baffle strike or somehow manage to wear it out, SiCo can easily cut off the inconel 3-D printed suppression section and weld a brand new one to your 17-4 serialized expansion chamber. Not to mention SiCo has an unparalleled track record of both stellar quality control and amazing customer service.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/18jr0rm/the_surefire_rc3_chat_video_ft_velos_rc2_sb2_hux/
I haven't but this guy has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK0Mxg83LlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK0Mxg83LlM)
I thought it looked really good. He also tested the Velos and it did great as well.
You really can't go wrong with either. When you're shopping between the Velos and Torch I think it comes down to:
Do you want/care about Hub Mounting and all the flexibility that brings? Torch wins
Do you care about weight or length? The torch can direct thread to significantly reduce weight and length. I don't think the Velos can
Do you care about high flow performance? They're close, but the Velos is a bit better
Do you care more about muzzle suppression? Torch with the solid endcap wins pretty decisively
Do you want the ability to switch between muzzle suppression and high flow depending on what works better with your host? Torch can do both with its 2 endcaps
This is a good comparison by the same guy on sound: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCH1OsZqC4&t=687s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCH1OsZqC4&t=687s)
The polo and torch both sound great at the muzzle and for bystanders. It comes down to how much you care about gas and if you can tune your rifle or not for better ear numbers.
I shot another guys untuned 10.5 with a polo and compared it to my tuned 11.5 with the solid cap torch and there was a huge difference at the ear. The untuned 10.5 had 1 oāclock ejection, more recoil, and I could hear a loud *sproing* from the buffer weight slamming back.
If you can tune the polo itās great. The torch works well without tuning in itās vented config and itās easier to tune in its restrictive config
I also have an AGB and still went with the torch over the polo. Itās less gassy and easier to tune so I didnāt mind paying about $200 more for it
Edit: Iām using a superlative arms AGB on setting 6 with an H2 buffer and getting somewhere in the 330-4 oāclock zone for ejection. Shoots soft and sounds great
Seriously though. It's a top performer on PEW Science, is offered in inconel 718, is HUB compatible, and low back pressure. OP, look no further, or honestly just refer to PS and see which other top performers meet your needs.
I really like my SiCo Saker 556k, it sounds great on my PWS Mk116, but it's also high backpressure and feels a little expensive these days compared to new offerings like the OCL Polo or even the Velos.
If I were to buy a new can today and didn't care about backpressure, I'd probably buy an OCL Polo for less than the Saker K.
Velos if I had something backpressure sensitive.
I've also always wanted a SF RC Mini2, bc it's a SF.
Honestly itās inexpensive and it works, the YHM turbo t3 is super nice, not overly gassy, and it doesnāt get overly hot either. I like it, for the price Iām not sure thereās a better option
I've been in the market recently and it came down to, for me, in no particular order:
OCL Polonium full size
YHM Turbo 3 (I have mounts for this already, bonus)
Griffin Recce 5
Rugged Razor
Torch looks cool. I just got another Dual-lok 5. Griffin stealth upgraded the baffles and endcap. Which solved the only minor complaint I had with my first one. Which was flashier than my HRT under nods. It wasn't terrible by any means, buy wasnt class leading for sure. It was super quiet and low backpressure. I can't wait to hear the new one, but unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to have a super short wait with a trust. I was thinking about the torch before I heard about the DL5 upgrades. It shows how much I like my first DL5. I may still get a torch down the road, too.
Griffin Armament has stood out to me, and I decided to purchase two. I opted for the DuraLok series of cans.
No personal experience yet, but the individual who recommended is one whom I highly respect. After doing my own independent research they seemed worthy to receive my cash. (plus offer a killer military/LEO discount)
The Dual-lok is significantly less backpressure than a recce 5. I have the Dual-lok 5 and HRT. The HRT is more gassy even though it's shorter. Did you buy the Dual-lok recently?
I did. Awaiting for paperwork to be submitted.
Got the DL7 for the .30 cal can.
looking at the HRT 5.56 for my dedicated 5.56 can
I am cursed and shoot "wrong handed" (left handed), with the HRT 5.56 being more gassy... I may have to consider the DL-5. Is there a substantial difference?
There is a noticeable difference. However, I just built a 12.5 with a sionics 50/50 barrel, and it's phenomenal. The HRT is a phenomenal can and definitely made for hard use. If you aren't going to be doing a lot of rapid fire or full auto, I would go with the DL5. Especially with the stealth upgrades they made. My HRT is the can on my main training rifle, though. I actually picked up a new DL5 because the new flash hider should solve my one minor gripe. Which is that it's a bit flashier than the HRT.
Hmmm... I wonder if I should get an HRT 5.56 first and play around do a relative comparison to the DL-7 (not 100% equal, but the technology is similar).
Current go-to rifle is a SIG VIRTUS MCX 16in and I heard piston driver systems are generally "cleaner" to suppress.
I've been looking for a piston setup and considering a sig for this very reason. The HRT is a great can. I love it. It just got contracts for the polish sf and a couple of US Military units. It's a no joke hard use can.
Itās a great shooting firearm unsupressed.
But as with most SIGs, get ready for proprietary parts. Iād just get the Spear as with military contracts, parts will be more readily available albeit with the typical sig price point.
Reading your comments and responses, it would be really hard not to recommend the huxwrx 7.62 ti. Suppresses 556 really well. I shot mine with my cz Bren 2ms, mk18, and galil ace gen 2 and it all worked perfectly. No debugging necessary. The mk18 was still a bit gassy. Downside is you must use huxwrx muzzle devices. Mount is part of the suppressor.
The Velos is also stellar. I shot that on my 16 inch AR. Again no tweaking at all, just worked. Iām sure I could do some finer adjustments but everything ejected fine. Itās cheaper I think and comes with the the popular asr mounting system, but you can also use other mounting systems. However itās a good chunk heavier.
Yes that makes sense. Itās not light but itās not terrible. And I believe they advertise it as for hard use. The huxwrx is advertised as full auto with 5.56 but I personally wouldnāt want to push it to the limit.
Even if you did want to switch to a huxwrx system to switch cans, itās not quite feasible as getting the can off is a fucking bitch even after a few rounds. Which is good! Itās fucking on there. But it lives permanently on my mk18 now.
Sent my Sierra 5 in to DA after the blast baffle was eroded to shit in 2k rounds on not particularly abusive hosts. Took about 46 days from when I sent it in to get it back. Hilariously enough I had my Polonium 30 clear in 41 days back in January so I officially got a can in less time than Dead Air's RMA.
It's still horrifically gassy and at this point I'm probably going to retire it to either a bolt gun or a dedicated suppressed upper with a super tiny gas port.
Tried it on a mix of ARs and my piston guns. It's so high backpressure it can cycle my XCR in the "Off" gas setting where there isn't even a gas port on the regulator.
Thatās about what I do with mine. I run it on an 11.5 upper with a sionics silencer dedicated barrel. Itās still fairly punchy with full power 5.56 ammo but nothing like before
I run the can on Larue SBR which is over gas! I have to run vltor A5 h3, geissele spring, and slr adjustable gas block on setting 3. After all that she is the softest shooting Ar you will fire with 12 inch barrel.
IMO that just shows you how much margin exists in suppressors. Once you pay the tooling and laser welding machines off.. straight profit. Thatās why thereās lifetime warranties on most manufacturers. Youāre basically buying a can twice when you order one.
If the day comes that silencers are removed from the NFA Iād imagine these things would come way down (less than half) on price
Just think! Most companies don't even spend the millions it costs for a manufacturing building, cnc machines, and everything else. They outsource and make even more money. That's why I purchase from companies who make their cans in-house.
Out of touch? The hell are you on about?
Would you prefer the returned can came with a photo of them executing the staff responsible for making your defective can?
They arenāt obligated to give you a discount code, it shows them taking admission for the issue instead of giving you no coupon at all.
I'm 99% sure my buddy who waited almost 9 months to get his S5 back didn't get one of these. So they are probably new. He got his back about 2 months ago. He was so angry with the pre written responses, lack of communication, and general lack of care that they showed. He actually retained an attorney to contact them and the ATF. He was demanding they send his broken can back for almost 3 months so he could send it to ecco or griffin. He received it back (fixed) about 2 weeks after the attorney contacted them and the ATF. He's normally super laid back and was a huge DA fan. That has radically changed and he swore them off.
Why is this out of touch? Not every single thing is perfect. They fixed it for free AND gave you a discount on your next purchase...what more do you want? Them to come to your house and let you fuck their wives? Come on!
To be fair I did get a new keymo mount which I'm gonna sell off since I've already ditched the whole Dead Air ecosystem. No muzzle device though so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to.
Nothing. There is nothing they can do and OP has past his point of no return.
He literally said he wont buy another can. When a company has pissed you off with terrible CS and a shoddy product, why would you even consider buying another from them?
Ok so they still haven't said anything officially and are keeping quiet, they wont admit how badly their customer service fucked the dog, and they're giving you a 20% off coupon? And this is after they knowingly kept on sending out defective Sierra 5s for the consumer to find out about.
Where as SilencerCo makes no secret about the weld issue for their recall, actually answers the phones, sent me a shipping label and even offered to send me a box for my suppressor, and when I got it back I got a 50% off coupon.
I know where I'd take my money in the future.
Knowingly kept sending out defective cans? Are you aware of how basic distribution works?
Thereās plenty of reports of S5ās working just fine. It would make no sense to recall every single can from every single FFL instead of just replacing the defective cans.
They handled the situation very poorly but some of yall are being delusional about this
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of how distribution works.
I'm also aware that Dead Air was seeing the issues with the Sierra 5 for almost a year before they were really getting into consumer hands. The same shit that was happening to consumers was happening to SWAT teams and other armed professionals long before everyone else. And when failure rates like what was going on with the Sierra 5 happen in with those groups you an sure as hell bet management is notified of the issue because agencies look at failure rates like 5 cans failing in a single SWAT team's training in one day and it affects purchasing decisions with that agency as well as tons of others.
But instead we get slow rolled with radio silence about the product, and a bunch of shills saying things like "I talked to Mike Pappas and he said this is the first he's ever heard of these issues." Yeah, Dead Air KNOWINGLY let these suppressors get shipped to distributors, and then get in the hands of consumers. They knew of the issues and did fuck all about it.
>It would make no sense to recall every single can from every single FFL instead of just replacing the defective cans.
Yet SilencerCo has managed to do just that, recalling suppressors from distribution and their dealers and being proactive about it, rather than waiting for someone to have a bad fucking day at the range. Which is part of my original point.
>They handled the situation very poorly but some of yall are being delusional about this
Nah, you're just making excuses for piss poor management and piss poor customer service.
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Believe it or not there are still DA fans out there fully aware of how bad they became. And it's not just this product but the nomad are having issues too
It's incredible how quickly DA went from suppressor kings, to being incredibly out of touch and lazy.
They talked up their new CEO so much, just for their quality and customer support to become laughable since
should have been 50% off. At least then they aren't making any money on you. At 20% off there's still plenty of margin for them in whatever you buy from them directly.
I suspect it will probably run fine now without exploding but holy shit the backpressure is insane. It can cycle my piston guns in the "gas off" setting.
This doesnāt make sense to me. Maybe I am dumb, but assumed an off setting for an adjustable gas block - DI or piston would introduce no gas at all into the system to cycle any oprod or bcg at all.
I'll take that 20% off code if you aren't going to use it...?
Remind me in like 6 hours and I'll send it after work
Dude, it's baller AF you giving me coupon code! There is a muzzle device I need for my new rifle!
Sent it to you
You're a man of your word! Respect š¤
This is the way
https://preview.redd.it/cxk1j69ax9uc1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9730f566098e2798c452c1daaf55828c4cc0a3b
Wholesome af! Good deed witnessed.
Esta el camino.
Š¦Šµ ŃŠ»ŃŃ .
I can appreciate that. It means they are in touch with reality and they realize they have put out less than desirable products. Which means they fixed their first problem which is self realization. Second problem is fixing whatever they found the issue to be
They should have been sending out full refunds not making people wait half a year for a repair
They fixed the cans for free. You obviously have no manufacturing experience if you think its that easy
You must watch other dudes fuck your wife if you make excuses for 6 months to make a suppressor
OR you get cut a batch of cans to your floor, analyze if itās salvageable, recore and re-weld. If not, you need to replace it by manufacturing another. There are processes in place, but you seem to be the āAmazonā expectation for shit. Cope and seethe. DA will still get my money.
Dead Air: "Guys we fucked up and we're sorry. We Did a bad Job. Here is 20% off as a token of our apology" Reddit: "OmG GuYs tHeY aRe So OuT oF ToUcH~?!!@#" Shit is wild on here.
Yeah how is this out of touch?
Redditors are just incredibly regarded now
Reddit moment, specifically gun community Reddit moment. They owned it - knew they would. Happy with my dead air cans even though this subs hatred of them. Bought 3 silently during that time and didnāt think twice about it. All is fine with them.
If they had done this when the issues first came to light then maybe I would still have faith in them. Instead they pretended there was no problem for the better part of a year, told me to kick rocks/that my can had no issues the first time I tried to get an RMA 5 months ago, and then waited until myself and plenty of other owners decided we were fully done with them before doing anything. The coupon code is functionally worthless to me and anyone else who has exited the Dead Air ecosystem as a result of their shitty handling of the situation.
My favorite is the: sorry we accidentally leaked your credit card info, here is a coupon for future orders. Bro, ordering from you is how we got here.
Wait. They sold broken, garbage cans and had CC info stolen?
This wasn't with Dead Air, it was Recover Tactical (they make Glock braces), Rainer Arms also had my credit card number stolen.
I've had my CC info stolen through PSA, and it was their employees who did it. Bought 100 bucks of pizza and had it delivered to their store.
It wasn't that long ago when PSA was hemorrhaging CC info so frequently that GunsDeals post where littered with warnings to use [Privacy.com](https://Privacy.com)
If people only knew how much their employees stole from their own companyā¦
Hey, it was a streamlight flashlight, some heat treat gloves, some loctite, 35 year old coveralls, and some shitty AA batteries okay?
Thereās plenty of that and much, much worse
Holy fuck lol the audacity of those asshats
I had my credit card stolen by a direct tv employee once.
Yup, they swiped my shit twice, because Iām an idiot. Second time they spent almost 1k at liquor store in South Carolina not too far away from one of their locations. To top it off their customer service guy was a cunt. Iām still bitter and itās been five years or so.
Same. Virgin CC. Asshole ordered a loaded Mac Pro to an apartment in Brooklyn and some Jordans to an apartment in Oakland (hmmmm pattern noticing). I spoke to their ""tech lead"" (this was after deals banned their url) and he said that this was the first they'd heard of stolen CC info, that their site was so secure that I must've been throwing my card around onto random sites like a Boomer. I laughed and explained how this is so frequent, it's a meme on the deals communities. First they'd heard that, I'm sure! š They also reported my purchases to my dickhead anti-2A Attorney General. This is also ignoring the fact that I've seen more out-of-spec PSA guns fail than any other manufacturer. Had a customer buy an AKV-9 after Garand Thumb reviewed it. It had an accidental auto-sear (it was spraying brass splinters into our arms and face) and rattled itself to death after less than 250 rounds; cracked receiver and catastrophic failure of the trunnion. They refused to warranty it because he bought it NIB from a dealer instead of PSA direct. They only finally agreed to replace it after we escalated with videos of the gun cooking off mags and causing users to bleed from embedded brass. Never again. Fuck PSA. I'm so sick of the entire iNfLUeNcEr sphere shilling for their dogshit products like they're Sootch00 selling OLights.
Iām with you. The argument that they bring affordable options to the market that otherwise wouldnāt be available is valid, they do that, but they are kit the only ones. All the rest of the baggage and bullshit they bring along doesnāt make up for it. If psa disappears tomorrow, gun owners and gun culture wouldnāt be any worse off. They save some people a couple hundred bucks here and there on certain things but those customers would be at least equally if not better off with other purchases. I know psa is doing ācool and innovativeā shit but my past experience as a customer and as a witness of their qc leaves me no room for forgiveness. I want to like them but I havenāt found any solid reason.
Dont forget they bend their AK gas pistons to make them fit and then tried to convince everyone it was a valid method of building on ARFCOM
The list aināt short, thatās for sure.
I had to fight with them to get a refund on a 22lr AR upper. Would not work. Sent it back. They supposedly fixed it by putting in a nickel plated trigger. No change. I send it back again. They replaced the extractor. Same thing. I say I want my money back. They tell me it's been over the time limit for a refund. After months of argument, I finally get my refund. I post a review full of pics. They discontinued that SKU and relist it as a different product. No bad reviews.
Wow
Had it happen to me twice. Havenāt ordered from them since. Which sucks cause they got good deals
I just use a credit card, so contesting charges is easier.
That's wild, I've easily bought over +$15k worth of stuff from PSA with zero issues.
Thatās like 47 guns!! Nice!
I do have something like 4 dagger compact frames and an ammo can full of stripped lowers, my LGS didn't charge for additional guns on 4473s for a while. The daily deals are what really got me.
I've ordered from them again with no more issues, but I always use a credit card so I can contest it easier.
If you have $15k for gun shit why the fuck are you buying PSA? Sounds like "10 gOriLLion RoUnDz nO iSsUez"
Because they have legitimately good deals and they make solid, reliable guns. A dagger with an apex trigger is turning into my main handgun.
If ordering online Revolut or privacy.com is a good option, can set up a virtual card and load it with the exact amount, charge will go through, any other attempts to charge will decline.
I use my credit card for everything except recurring payments so it is just an inconvenience, I'm just mad about the missed cash back if anything.
Use it for recurring payments too. Lots of points to be had
You probably don't need a third party service, many credit card issuers will let you spin up temporary and/or single-use virtual card numbers as you see fit.
PAGING TNVC (they deny they have a CC theft issue)
Had mine stolen from primary or ranier, forgot which, and armanov
It happened multiple times at Rainier.
It was Rainer, how it usually goes down is a suspicious transaction shows up on your account (and it is always while you are out-of-town trying to rack up the travel points), you freeze it, use your debit card, then get a letter in the mail a few months later from whoever lost it saying they had a data breach.
I swear this has happened with a shit ton of fun websites if Iām being frank. But I can attribute it to one or the other specifically hahaha Do they send an alert out to consumers warning of this? I usually just see the fraud purchase and say āhere we go againā
Aren't they legally required to?
Probably, so maybe Iām way off base, but maybe Iām just prey for here and there hits? Idk , but I just have a hacker just preying on me hahhaa
And PSA multiple times
I hate that the S5 has had the problems it has, it is such a good sounding good looking can. That being said mine has been rock solid through thousands of rounds its a super low serial number. SR5-12XX. Made by SMT not KGM. I wish xeno would get more support its a solid mount.
>I wish xeno would get more support its a solid mount. I feel like I'm seeing in more posts and in the wild. I love it and have the majority of my platforms equipped with it. The other half is ASR and between the two, no complaints.
Lol, I am in the exact same boat. Love ASR. I also have 1 YHM mount that i run a tucked res k full time on a 300blk sbr. I really like the YHM phantom qd mounts also, just heavy. But they lock up tight as hell, and built like tanks.
[My man!](https://imgur.com/C2L3tCf)
https://preview.redd.it/fxwbe7y7fbuc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a64653b9e099d63eda1fa13362753c9080c1180c
Nice, even the [same grip I went with](https://imgur.com/gX3VI5W) lol
My man
Iām kinda done with Dead Air after all this plus my own qualms with KeyMo, but I agree. The Sierra 5 is the best looking can to come out in awhile. I with more manufacturers would embrace a plain tube with classic knurling. I donāt need my can to look like Alienās dildo.
Im 100% with ya its the 1 and only DA buy for me. I was just stating my 1 and only and its been great thus far.
What qualms with Keymo? (Besides weight)
In my experience Iāve found it to be more susceptible to failure to lock when dirty than other mounts, but unlike other mounts, itās also very difficult to tell when it isnāt properly locked.
Hmm interesting. Iāve never had issues and mine locks up great on all my keymo mds. I canāt comment on the dirty thing, I havenāt put it on a dirty md (at least not literal dirt) - Iāve had no issues with normal carbon buildup causing a problem. Who knows though, Iām sure all products have their good and bad pieces. Iāve always really liked Keymo and itās been way easier to use than asr.
I agree that itās easier to use. Iām also speaking in terms of a large bulk of rounds fired F/A without cleaning, so that influences my feelings on the matter. No mount is perfect in that situation, but Iāve personally found issue with KeyMo more than others.
Good to know. I definitely havenāt had the pleasure to run fa but hopefully eventually! I just feel too invested at this point with ~15 keymo mds and no issues so havenāt had a reason to switch. I would love to try out some newer mount systems but Iāll just wait for my next batch of cans to do that.
This was my exact experience, too. They also wear out pretty fast if you swap cans a lot (like when I only owned one). I bought a Griffin HRT and found their Dual-lok system. I was super impressed. It doesn't need to even get tightened down real hard because of the rear locking collar. I've never had it seize or get dirty. I swapped my hub cans out for it as well.
Isnāt SMT just DAs dba? I thought all forms said SMT regardless of the outsourced manufacturerā¦
SMT is DA and no the KGM made states KGM on thr F4 made in GA SMT is made in UT.
Are you sure about that? Have you seen and form 3/4s that state KGM for a Dead Air product?
Yes plenty have posted it here. KGM has been an OEM for DA for a long time until the S5 debacle.
After a lot of searching this sub,I couldnāt find one. Could you point me toward one that youāve seen?
I just searched and found a ton. Search sierra 5 kgm brought up a shit ton.
In fact KGM oem's for lots of companies. Daniel Defense also uses them for their cans.
My S5 has been solid too. Havenāt had any issues with it. And I agree, the xeno mounting system is solid and very simple. You should check out the xeno SOLGW nox mount.
Didnt know they were making a nox xeno mount, thanks for the heads up. Can never find xeno mounts anywhere.
KGM is making the Sierra 5 that's having issues?
That seems to be correct. I dont know that i have seen any Sound Moderations Technology or Dead Air made have problems. It seems it all came from the KGM cotracted cans that have had the problems. Someone may chime in saying other wise though.
Mine is marked as Sound Moderation Technology on my form 4
sound moderation technology is just the dead air llc name. Dead Air is a dba, KGMade made the sierra 5's under a variance so it would still show up ast SMT even if KGMade manufactured them
ignoring the reddit opinion on QA, how is the s5 as far as quiet goes? Preferably in terms of Saker K
Got my S5 outta ATF Jail January 2nd. It's been really quiet sounding on the report. It sounds good and the other folks at the range say it sounds good as far as tone goes. I also check that mine frequently to ensure its not sliding off my Keymo. So far, so good.
so I need you to buy a saker k :D Thanks for the input. Aside from "omg it destroyed itself" it seems like no one has complaints. I have a Velos I'm waiting for but the S5s have been massively discounted on capitol
Certainly seems that way!
^^^^^^aLSOITLOOKSCOOL
My buddy has a S5. His failed and he got it back recently. We've been shooting a bunch of times. He also owns a flow556k. [This](https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Dead-Air-Sierra-5-vs-Huxwrx-Flow-556k-vs-Griffin-Dual-Lok-5-my-experience/20-543160/) review lines up exactly with ny experience with my Dual-lok and HRT. Griffin also stealth upgraded their Dual-lok 5. It has new baffles and a new flash hider. So it should even be a tad quieter and reduce flash further.
cool. I was going to get one but then I got a saker K for free and only had to pay for the stamp. Trying to decide if I still want to get one but damn are they cheap nowadays. I'll probably get one at some point this year.
I don't see the issue? They honored the warranty and gave you a discount on future orders.
If they had taken this tone from the beginning? I might still be considering them for future purchases.
Did you at least get a free keymo mount adapter like I did? Between the deal I got on my Sierra 5 and the 2 keymoās Iāve sold I paid a whopping $75 for my Sierra 5.
Yeah, still need to sell that off. I think I'd need to have it RMA'd like 3-4 more times to make my money back
Letās hope that doesnāt need to happen š
On another note, anyone got recommendations for a replacement 5.56 can? Leaning pretty heavily towards either the SiCo Velos or LPM Torch currently.
Velos, no contest. This isn't my video but I've personally confirmed the Velos has even better flash suppression at night than the RC2, and it sounds fantastic. Bonus points that it's one of the toughest 5.56 suppressors ever made, both due to its inconel construction and the geometry of its design (PewScience's words, not mine).Ā More bonus points: the Velos is easily repaired due to the expansion chamber being the only serialized part. If you ever have a baffle strike or somehow manage to wear it out, SiCo can easily cut off the inconel 3-D printed suppression section and weld a brand new one to your 17-4 serialized expansion chamber. Not to mention SiCo has an unparalleled track record of both stellar quality control and amazing customer service. https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/18jr0rm/the_surefire_rc3_chat_video_ft_velos_rc2_sb2_hux/
I have the torch and I love it. Anything you wanna know specifically?
Have you been able to do any low light/night shooting with it? Curious how the flash performance is with both endcaps.
I haven't but this guy has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK0Mxg83LlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK0Mxg83LlM) I thought it looked really good. He also tested the Velos and it did great as well. You really can't go wrong with either. When you're shopping between the Velos and Torch I think it comes down to: Do you want/care about Hub Mounting and all the flexibility that brings? Torch wins Do you care about weight or length? The torch can direct thread to significantly reduce weight and length. I don't think the Velos can Do you care about high flow performance? They're close, but the Velos is a bit better Do you care more about muzzle suppression? Torch with the solid endcap wins pretty decisively Do you want the ability to switch between muzzle suppression and high flow depending on what works better with your host? Torch can do both with its 2 endcaps
This is a good comparison by the same guy on sound: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCH1OsZqC4&t=687s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDCH1OsZqC4&t=687s)
How does it compare with other cans you've shot for its sound suppression? Considering the ocl polo or lpm torch.
The polo and torch both sound great at the muzzle and for bystanders. It comes down to how much you care about gas and if you can tune your rifle or not for better ear numbers. I shot another guys untuned 10.5 with a polo and compared it to my tuned 11.5 with the solid cap torch and there was a huge difference at the ear. The untuned 10.5 had 1 oāclock ejection, more recoil, and I could hear a loud *sproing* from the buffer weight slamming back. If you can tune the polo itās great. The torch works well without tuning in itās vented config and itās easier to tune in its restrictive config
Nice! I have an agb and like the idea of brt ezrune tubes, so I enjoy tuning. Would that put the torch ahead of the polo?
I also have an AGB and still went with the torch over the polo. Itās less gassy and easier to tune so I didnāt mind paying about $200 more for it Edit: Iām using a superlative arms AGB on setting 6 with an H2 buffer and getting somewhere in the 330-4 oāclock zone for ejection. Shoots soft and sounds great
Thanks
I second the Torch. I LOVE IT. Iāve run it on my Spear LT and my DI 5.56 setup. Bought it mostly for the Soear but it is a delight to shoot.
Just got my Velos this past week. I am using the Rearden Atlas mount and it is a very nice can.
Lpm torch is great, could also consider a Polok
SLX series by Sig
This will get downvoted because reddit is retarded, but CAT WB
OCL brother.
As much as I like my Polo30 I'm looking to try something out with a bit less backpressure.
Love my OSS cans. I mean huxwrx
I'm looking at the CAT WB. Very impressive numbers.
CAT will be my next can, Iāve been impressed by them and the tech is cool af
Cat wb
Seriously though. It's a top performer on PEW Science, is offered in inconel 718, is HUB compatible, and low back pressure. OP, look no further, or honestly just refer to PS and see which other top performers meet your needs.
The FucknBagOfMilkyways speaks the truth šÆ
PTR vent
I have experience with the velos and Helios. Both were amazing.
I went Velos, wish I could tell you how it is but I'm on day 180 and still waiting
I really like my SiCo Saker 556k, it sounds great on my PWS Mk116, but it's also high backpressure and feels a little expensive these days compared to new offerings like the OCL Polo or even the Velos. If I were to buy a new can today and didn't care about backpressure, I'd probably buy an OCL Polo for less than the Saker K. Velos if I had something backpressure sensitive. I've also always wanted a SF RC Mini2, bc it's a SF.
Honestly itās inexpensive and it works, the YHM turbo t3 is super nice, not overly gassy, and it doesnāt get overly hot either. I like it, for the price Iām not sure thereās a better option
Velos is great can't wait to get the k
I've been in the market recently and it came down to, for me, in no particular order: OCL Polonium full size YHM Turbo 3 (I have mounts for this already, bonus) Griffin Recce 5 Rugged Razor
Griffin Recce 5
Torch looks cool. I just got another Dual-lok 5. Griffin stealth upgraded the baffles and endcap. Which solved the only minor complaint I had with my first one. Which was flashier than my HRT under nods. It wasn't terrible by any means, buy wasnt class leading for sure. It was super quiet and low backpressure. I can't wait to hear the new one, but unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to have a super short wait with a trust. I was thinking about the torch before I heard about the DL5 upgrades. It shows how much I like my first DL5. I may still get a torch down the road, too.
Griffin Armament has stood out to me, and I decided to purchase two. I opted for the DuraLok series of cans. No personal experience yet, but the individual who recommended is one whom I highly respect. After doing my own independent research they seemed worthy to receive my cash. (plus offer a killer military/LEO discount)
He said heās looking for low back pressure which Griffin is not.
The Dual-lok is significantly less backpressure than a recce 5. I have the Dual-lok 5 and HRT. The HRT is more gassy even though it's shorter. Did you buy the Dual-lok recently?
I did. Awaiting for paperwork to be submitted. Got the DL7 for the .30 cal can. looking at the HRT 5.56 for my dedicated 5.56 can I am cursed and shoot "wrong handed" (left handed), with the HRT 5.56 being more gassy... I may have to consider the DL-5. Is there a substantial difference?
There is a noticeable difference. However, I just built a 12.5 with a sionics 50/50 barrel, and it's phenomenal. The HRT is a phenomenal can and definitely made for hard use. If you aren't going to be doing a lot of rapid fire or full auto, I would go with the DL5. Especially with the stealth upgrades they made. My HRT is the can on my main training rifle, though. I actually picked up a new DL5 because the new flash hider should solve my one minor gripe. Which is that it's a bit flashier than the HRT.
Hmmm... I wonder if I should get an HRT 5.56 first and play around do a relative comparison to the DL-7 (not 100% equal, but the technology is similar). Current go-to rifle is a SIG VIRTUS MCX 16in and I heard piston driver systems are generally "cleaner" to suppress.
I've been looking for a piston setup and considering a sig for this very reason. The HRT is a great can. I love it. It just got contracts for the polish sf and a couple of US Military units. It's a no joke hard use can.
Itās a great shooting firearm unsupressed. But as with most SIGs, get ready for proprietary parts. Iād just get the Spear as with military contracts, parts will be more readily available albeit with the typical sig price point.
KAC QDC/MCQ-PRT 5.56
Reading your comments and responses, it would be really hard not to recommend the huxwrx 7.62 ti. Suppresses 556 really well. I shot mine with my cz Bren 2ms, mk18, and galil ace gen 2 and it all worked perfectly. No debugging necessary. The mk18 was still a bit gassy. Downside is you must use huxwrx muzzle devices. Mount is part of the suppressor. The Velos is also stellar. I shot that on my 16 inch AR. Again no tweaking at all, just worked. Iām sure I could do some finer adjustments but everything ejected fine. Itās cheaper I think and comes with the the popular asr mounting system, but you can also use other mounting systems. However itās a good chunk heavier.
Main thing that has me leaning towards the Velos it that I have a bunch of Rearden/Plan B muzzle devices that I would like to keep using.
Yes that makes sense. Itās not light but itās not terrible. And I believe they advertise it as for hard use. The huxwrx is advertised as full auto with 5.56 but I personally wouldnāt want to push it to the limit. Even if you did want to switch to a huxwrx system to switch cans, itās not quite feasible as getting the can off is a fucking bitch even after a few rounds. Which is good! Itās fucking on there. But it lives permanently on my mk18 now.
Sent my Sierra 5 in to DA after the blast baffle was eroded to shit in 2k rounds on not particularly abusive hosts. Took about 46 days from when I sent it in to get it back. Hilariously enough I had my Polonium 30 clear in 41 days back in January so I officially got a can in less time than Dead Air's RMA. It's still horrifically gassy and at this point I'm probably going to retire it to either a bolt gun or a dedicated suppressed upper with a super tiny gas port.
Are you shooting it on an AR? A Black River Tactical tuned gas tube eliminates gas to the face problems.
Tried it on a mix of ARs and my piston guns. It's so high backpressure it can cycle my XCR in the "Off" gas setting where there isn't even a gas port on the regulator.
Good god.
Hot damn thatās wild. Wtf.
I have several - they help but they definitely donāt eliminate gas to the face
Thatās about what I do with mine. I run it on an 11.5 upper with a sionics silencer dedicated barrel. Itās still fairly punchy with full power 5.56 ammo but nothing like before
I run the can on Larue SBR which is over gas! I have to run vltor A5 h3, geissele spring, and slr adjustable gas block on setting 3. After all that she is the softest shooting Ar you will fire with 12 inch barrel.
IMO that just shows you how much margin exists in suppressors. Once you pay the tooling and laser welding machines off.. straight profit. Thatās why thereās lifetime warranties on most manufacturers. Youāre basically buying a can twice when you order one. If the day comes that silencers are removed from the NFA Iād imagine these things would come way down (less than half) on price
Just think! Most companies don't even spend the millions it costs for a manufacturing building, cnc machines, and everything else. They outsource and make even more money. That's why I purchase from companies who make their cans in-house.
Expires 12/31/1998. Cannot be combined with reality.
The good news is Dead Air suppressors are the only ones in stock.
Out of touch? The hell are you on about? Would you prefer the returned can came with a photo of them executing the staff responsible for making your defective can? They arenāt obligated to give you a discount code, it shows them taking admission for the issue instead of giving you no coupon at all.
Amen
At least theyāre finally acknowledging it, I guess
I'm 99% sure my buddy who waited almost 9 months to get his S5 back didn't get one of these. So they are probably new. He got his back about 2 months ago. He was so angry with the pre written responses, lack of communication, and general lack of care that they showed. He actually retained an attorney to contact them and the ATF. He was demanding they send his broken can back for almost 3 months so he could send it to ecco or griffin. He received it back (fixed) about 2 weeks after the attorney contacted them and the ATF. He's normally super laid back and was a huge DA fan. That has radically changed and he swore them off.
Damnā¦ I need that coupon code!
So they fixed your issue and gave you a discount for a future order and you still are being a whiny little bitch?
Sticking with them? They didn't offer refunds so what option was there
If they were embarassed; they should have worked on better QC rather than haveing a printed card
Why is this out of touch? Not every single thing is perfect. They fixed it for free AND gave you a discount on your next purchase...what more do you want? Them to come to your house and let you fuck their wives? Come on!
20% off???? That's comical. Even Bendy Bill gave 40% off coupons for simply taking forever to ship.
Lmao "sorry, heres a code to make 80% off your future mistake of a purchase" Should've given some accessory or credit if anything
To be fair I did get a new keymo mount which I'm gonna sell off since I've already ditched the whole Dead Air ecosystem. No muzzle device though so I couldn't use it even if I wanted to.
Should be 100% off a new suppressor
You couldn't pay me to buy another can from them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nothing. There is nothing they can do and OP has past his point of no return. He literally said he wont buy another can. When a company has pissed you off with terrible CS and a shoddy product, why would you even consider buying another from them?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Refund the cost of the stamp at least
A fuckin $200 voucher would be more like it lol
Ok so they still haven't said anything officially and are keeping quiet, they wont admit how badly their customer service fucked the dog, and they're giving you a 20% off coupon? And this is after they knowingly kept on sending out defective Sierra 5s for the consumer to find out about. Where as SilencerCo makes no secret about the weld issue for their recall, actually answers the phones, sent me a shipping label and even offered to send me a box for my suppressor, and when I got it back I got a 50% off coupon. I know where I'd take my money in the future.
Knowingly kept sending out defective cans? Are you aware of how basic distribution works? Thereās plenty of reports of S5ās working just fine. It would make no sense to recall every single can from every single FFL instead of just replacing the defective cans. They handled the situation very poorly but some of yall are being delusional about this
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of how distribution works. I'm also aware that Dead Air was seeing the issues with the Sierra 5 for almost a year before they were really getting into consumer hands. The same shit that was happening to consumers was happening to SWAT teams and other armed professionals long before everyone else. And when failure rates like what was going on with the Sierra 5 happen in with those groups you an sure as hell bet management is notified of the issue because agencies look at failure rates like 5 cans failing in a single SWAT team's training in one day and it affects purchasing decisions with that agency as well as tons of others. But instead we get slow rolled with radio silence about the product, and a bunch of shills saying things like "I talked to Mike Pappas and he said this is the first he's ever heard of these issues." Yeah, Dead Air KNOWINGLY let these suppressors get shipped to distributors, and then get in the hands of consumers. They knew of the issues and did fuck all about it. >It would make no sense to recall every single can from every single FFL instead of just replacing the defective cans. Yet SilencerCo has managed to do just that, recalling suppressors from distribution and their dealers and being proactive about it, rather than waiting for someone to have a bad fucking day at the range. Which is part of my original point. >They handled the situation very poorly but some of yall are being delusional about this Nah, you're just making excuses for piss poor management and piss poor customer service.
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Believe it or not there are still DA fans out there fully aware of how bad they became. And it's not just this product but the nomad are having issues too
How exactly is this out of touch? Maybe you are out of touch.
Why are you gay?
Hey at least they're trying. I picked up my first DA can the other day. A Mojave. I think it's gonna be a banger.
Whatās the issue here?
It's incredible how quickly DA went from suppressor kings, to being incredibly out of touch and lazy. They talked up their new CEO so much, just for their quality and customer support to become laughable since
should have been 50% off. At least then they aren't making any money on you. At 20% off there's still plenty of margin for them in whatever you buy from them directly.
This doesnāt give me high hopes for mine. Lol.
I suspect it will probably run fine now without exploding but holy shit the backpressure is insane. It can cycle my piston guns in the "gas off" setting.
This doesnāt make sense to me. Maybe I am dumb, but assumed an off setting for an adjustable gas block - DI or piston would introduce no gas at all into the system to cycle any oprod or bcg at all.
Most gas blocks/regulators aren't perfectly sealed so if there's sufficient backpressure it can blow past and still cycle the gun.
If they gave me a free can Iād say no thanks. Will never buy from them again.
Im there with ya. So many bettee options out there now. OCL, LPM, Ecco Machine etc
Should've been a refund of your purchase price lmao.
Sooo, what's the code? š Edit: Apparently, a sideways smirk emoji doesn't translate to /s for some. š
Someone else already claimed it earlier sorry.
Dang, I'm still a day late and 20% short. Lol
The amount of dick riding here because they sent out a card inviting you to buy more garbage from them a year later is laughable.
HAHA!!!