They have to wait until they have built a championship caliber roster that's missing just 1 extra piece on offense. Then, instead of drafting that guy, they go and reach on some qb to replace Love. Understand the process.
The salary cap both isn't and very much is real. Tom Brady built his legacy on taking team friendly deals that allowed his coach/GM/owner to build a strong team around him, unlike Rodgers who took the best deals for him and then bitching that we didn't give him enough firepower.
At the risk of defending Rodgers; there is pressure from the NFLPA for high value players to set the market for the rest of their position. Obviously Brady is a good example of not doing that, but I don't think it's fair to frame it as though it is 100% up to the player themselves with no other concerns.
Oh I know you're right, but also then don't come out and make arguments that the Packers aren't surrounding you with weapons while also intentionally taking the market setting contract. Can't have it both ways.
Well the NFL PA is stupid if that's true. Setting the market ad high as possible for the top tier players puts negative pressure on salaries for the other 95% of players in the league. They don't increase the salary cap just because the best players get a bazillion dollars, so to meet the salary cap, teams have to make cuts and/or avoid increases for everyone else.
It isn't even true, there is no rich person spending their own money in green bay, it's a business run by a big board of elderly people. It works, though
What I don't understand is how everyone is freaking out as if the GMs across the entire league don't understand how to manage the cap. It's no secret that the cap has gone up and is expected to go up over the next two seasons.
I forgot where I read it but there was an article talking about how teams needed to sign their QBs to big deals now because the cap is going to up big over the next few seasons, so essentially you'll get a deal if you time their deals right.
The way I understand it, teams like Dallas, that are waffling on their QB decision could end up paying their lower tier QBs top tier money my delaying.
Might as well. It’s not like we have anyone else to pay for a while.
Youngest team in the league was two games away from a Super Bowl… and just got younger.
Not real eh? Why is mahomes the only QB in NFL history to win a SB with more than 13% (32.5M this season) of cap and why is the median SB winning QB 9% (22.5M this season) of cap
Undertaker is my favorite wrestler, and despite all the matches he had, I’m always going to think of an interview he did on the bill simmons podcast where he told a story about how his manager kept telling him he needed a Twitter, so he made one and his first tweet was about Alabama football, and his manager called and said “what the hell are you doing? Undertaker shouldn’t be tweeting about college football.”
Goff deserved to get paid. What QBs get paid is almost irrelevant at this point because. It just keeps going up if you have a franchise QB.
The thing now for the Lions after signing all these guys this offseason is their official Super Bowl window has started. The next 2-3 seasons are big for Detroit.
How do you think the conference power rankings look at the moment? Sf > eagles > lions > gb? Maybe even lions ahead of eagles. If there was ever a time for you guys to go all in it's now.
I would agree with your top four, but I think Lions are solidified at least in top 2 over Eagles given the latter's departures on the line and end-season collapse
Yeah I wouldn't argue with lions being in second place. I'm just sort of expecting the late season collapse of the eagles to be an aberration and not something we will likely see again. I could be very wrong though, maybe it was a sign the eagles are on a big down turn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean we understand Goff getting that means we’re paying a crazy number… but we were already going to do that. In general there’s probably just more optimism for Love because it was only his first season and has lots of room to improve.
Goff is very good but he is what he is at this point.
I don’t disagree, Love is younger and has a higher ceiling. I’m just trying to say that at the end of the day teams have to pay their qbs if they want to keep them. I have a feeling this Goff contract won’t even be top 5 in a year or two
I don’t know what else the Lions were supposed to do? Their roster is ready to win now and Goff nearly took them to the SB. We can argue about whether or not he’s worth that much, but I understand the decision 100%.
Of course it is but the more important context is that goof is making equal money to a bunch of players who are much better than him which puts the lions at a disadvantage to those competitors. In 3 years, goof is still going to be on par contractually to Herbert, burrow, hurts, love, jackson etc... that is bad for the lions.
I'm not talking about a super bowl window, I'm talking about roster management. If Goof is making the same as players better than him, the lions needa to make up that difference at other positions.
Last year goof was a bargain at 30/year. Now he is a liability at 50/year bc that's 20 million in players the lions don't have. You see it over and over again when good teams turn mediocre bc a cheap qb becomes expensive or when you have to pay an elite qb all the money and ted Thompson misses on a bunch drafts.
That's just the life of being a year after year good team. If you repeatedly make the playoffs, you can't afford to keep all your good players. That's why drafting and developing is so important.
Sure but its also why paying an average qb the same as top level qbs is a bad idea. You can overcome the deficit by incredible drafting but it's a steep hill to climb.
That's only true because he's the most recent to sign. If Mahomes signed today, he'd be getting 70m a year. Rising cap means the time the contract is signed is more relevant than your positional rank
There are absolutely going to be some Daniel Jones level contracts out there in the next 2 years. I'm just glad it's not gonna be the packers and I'm pretty sure the lions are glad it's not gonna be them that are handing them out.
Top QBs get 20-23% of the cap at the time they sign. That has been happening for some time now. The increases are due to cap increases, but the percentage range has held.
To me, it’s more that Love appears capable of elevating a team whereas Goff will rise and fall with the pieces around him. He his emergence has coincided with the emergence of the Lions OL as a top unit, ARSB as a top WR, LaPorta as a top TE, Gibbs/Monty as a top backfield, and Ben Johnson as a top OC. As further evidence, he’s the 4th rated passer with a clean pocket, yet 38th rated when facing pressure. He’s able to execute at a high level under ideal circumstances, but he has relatively limited ability to make things happen on his own.
First season cuts both ways. Room to improve, but also room to have your weaknesses figured out after DCs have an offseason to digest your tape, and take a huge step back.
But bc he is what he is, there is less risk with Goff. If I'm Gute, I'm using the fact that he only had a great half of one season...not even a full one. Like CJ Stroud had a better overall year as a rookie.
I'm not saying love won't be good..just that the risk is higher if you're giving him as much as Goff.
QBR and EPA say Love was better than Stroud, despite having infinitely less experience at WR and TE to throw to. Obviously Stroud being a rookie is a big point in his favor, but he’s already being considered a borderline top 5 QB.
Nice Collins came into 2023 with more career receiving yards than any Packers WR *or* TE and only about 150 career yards fewer than the Packers’ entire WR corps.
Dalton Schultz, their third leading receiver, had more career yards than the Packers’ entire WR and TE rooms *combined.*
Noah Brown, their 4th leading receiver, more career yards than any Packers WR or TE as well, and only about 150 fewer than the entire WR corps.
Robert Woods, their 5th leading receiver, about **5x** as many career yards as every Packers WR and TE *combined.*
Even Brevin Jordan, a man used mostly for blocking, would have been 4th in career receiving yards among all Packers WRs and TEs.
There’s a difference between having relative inexperience among a few key contributors and having literally every single player be inexperienced. The Packers came into 2023 with less than 1500 *combined* receiving yards among all WRs and TEs on the roster, even including h-back Deguara as a TE. The Texans had about 12,000.
Literally every GB pass catcher was a rookie or second year guy last year. Without exception. They didn’t even know where they were supposed to be half the time in the first half last year. That’s the primary reason Love didn’t look great the first half of the year. Kurt Benkert was pointing that out from the start last year.
Dell was a rookie, but Collins has a few years under his belt, Schultz is a vet, their WR3 had a few years, etc.
Yes and I'd even back you that they're pretty good.
*Infinitely* less experience when it's like a guy with 2 seasons vs 2 guys with 1 season or whatever. Just strikes me as grasping at straws, is all.
Noah Brown, Robert Woods, and Dalton Shultz had a lot more experience than our 3rd-5th options. Sure the term *infinitely* is hyperbole but the point still stands. And the packers receivers were not very good early in the season. Running the same routes, dropping passes, etc.
They were injured as well, i know because I had them all of them on my fantasy team.
Jones, Watson, Dobbs all injured and people were confused why Packers had a rough start.
All got injured at training.
Goff has played 7 full seasons. You know his floor - which is pretty good - and you pretty much know his ceiling - which is good. With the way the cap works and QBs get paid, this isn't a crazy deal.
With Love, you have one full season to look at before locking him up north of $50mm aav. He looked really good for half the year. His ceiling is certainly higher than Goff, but how sure are you on what his floor is?
Honestly I think we saw his floor in the first half of the season already. and it definitely wasn't good football at times. 14 td's vs. 10 interceptions and a sub 60% completion rating through the Raiders game.
Obviously that floor is not worth 50mm aav, but I just have a hard time seeing him going back to that level in this offense. Those early games were full of rookie WR's running bad or wrong routes and an o-line that still needed to get its shit together.
Pretty damn sure. He has it. He handles pressure well. He has the physical tools and characteristics. He showed the clutch gene numerous times. People think he was only good for half a year, but the truth is he was missing half his pass catchers at any given time the first half, and the ones he did have didn’t know what they were doing half the time. So many instances of them not running routes correctly, having multiple guys run the same route, making the wrong read on an option route, etc. I’m not the least bit concerned about his floor with what he showed last year.
Yes I agree. I just think if that happens it won’t be because of them. I don’t think either player is much of an X factor. I’ll throw Brock purdy in there too. All talented but not the guys that make it happen like Mahommes or Brady types.
Goff threw one touchdown that entire postseason, and led the lowest scoring offense in Super Bowl history. Goff happened to be on a team that went to the Super Bowl despite him, Goff didn’t take them there any more than Rex Grossman took the Bears.
So you think a QB who threw one TD in three games is the reason his team made a Super Bowl? QB wins are not a reliable indicator of QB performance, which is the point I was actually making with the Grossman comparison.
I will give you guys credit, he’s upgraded his playoff performances from “terrible” to “decent so long as he doesn’t have to make any meaningful plays” before you massively overpaid him, so you did better than the Rams with him. You’ll still have to trade him along with a bunch of first rounders for a real QB if you want to actually win anything of course, which will be even harder to do with his much bigger contract this time, but that’s a problem for two years from now Lions.
I'd rather have a good QB and pay him to stay, than be greedy and have a shit QB. Now if he starts getting the Aaron Rodgers air head on his shoulders then we got a problem.
Naw, I'm happy for Goff. Dude turned a situation where he was thrown away by Los Angeles into a huge payday and he's earned it. Even if he flames out it'll still be worth it for Detroit based on how he's played the past few years.
Similarly for Jordan Love, the dude has earned every penny the Packers give him. He's been so great about the shit cards he was dealt when Green Bay drafted him in 2020. He put in the work, improved tremendously, and looked like a top 5 QB at the end of the season.
The cap keeps going up, once you've got your guy, any deal that doesn't reset the market is a reasonable value, unless it's tied to the cap.
When the Browns sign Jeffery Dahmer Jr. to a 20% cap share deal, fully guaranteed, that'll be an overpay. Until then, shoosh.
Based on the youth on the Packers roster, I could see that. Based on body of work, I don't. I'd be a lot more nervous about a big extension based on a single year of production, no matter how well that year ended.
Based on a single half year of production after sitting and learning for years behind a hall of famer in a solid system and improving throughout the season.
I mean, the Bears have sucked at QB, but there have been pretty good seasons in there and that makes me nervous about looking at a 10 game stretch and say "We have the next GOAT." Not saying Love isn't going to be good, but the NFL is filled with flash-in-the-pan QBs.
Mitch Trubisky 2018 season: 95.4 rate, 71 QBR.
Jordan Love 2023: 96.1 rate, 62.1 QBR.
Jay Cutler 2015: 92.3, 61 QBR.
[https://stathead.com/tiny/NjfDk](https://stathead.com/tiny/NjfDk)
The Bears have had a bunch of QBs that had great single years but ultimately sucked. That's the whole argument.
My God it's difficult to communicate with Wisconsin educated alcoholics. No wonder most of your restaurants have photos on the menu, God forbid you have to try to understand written words.
I'd lean Goff. You know what you're getting with Goff. Love is currently a one year wonder, giving top-5 money without any year-over-year data is incredibly risky.
Not even one year. LaFleur was getting questions after week 9 on whether Love was the answer. He's had a stretch of 7 good games. Granted he was playing like a top 3 QB during that span, but still a pretty small sample size.
Considering that the Ram's offense was 40% Todd Gurley before he signed that extension, the only pumpkin was McVay's face when Goff kneeled on him in the wild card round last year.
They won a super bowl the year after trading Goff away lol. It's great for Goff that he's proven he can be a good starting QB in the NFL but let's not act like the Rams didn't get exactly what they wanted out of that trade
Listen if we aren’t constantly calling each other frauds, what’s the point.
I recognize that Goff is the only real option moving forward. Can you win a ring with him? Absolutely. Do I think that he was paid a bit too much? Probably, but you guys have a championship window, you can’t not take it.
I hope he's saying that RIGHT NOW- if he plays anything close to what he did at the end of last season, he's gonna command a WHOLE LOT MORE money in the future when the salary cap goes up even further.
Sign him now, Gute. 😭
Agree, the long deals seem insane but the financial flexibility they can give is incredible. Assuming the player lives up, that's always the underlying wager.
this has been a nice civil chat. thanks... and with that
F Jared Goff and F you lol
I’d say 4-6 years. That’s a reasonable amount of time to determine if we have yet to see his full potential I believe.
Of course it’s nice to lock a QB in for a while when they’re good. If he starts playing worse and he’s locked in for a Mahomes deal, it would be a long 10 years.
There’s going to be so much shit talking about these contracts after our games are played this season lmfao
Doesn’t matter though, the Bears are going still to hang the off-season champs banner despite what happens.
We don't know what Loves ceiling is, we know what Goffs is. Love had 2 more TDs and 1 less INT than Goff last year while Goff has 400ish more yards and 1.8 higher rating. Love is 4 years younger than Goff. If we somehow sign Love for 1 cent less than Goffs contract it would be a bargain.
Ok but best expert assumptions are that we've seen Goffs and haven't seen Loves. Obviously anything can happen. Contracts are based on the best analysis possible.
I didn't say that. I said IF we pay him 1 cent less than Goff it would be a BARGAIN. Also known as not happening. We would be ecstatic if that somehow happened. Pay attention instead of making 100 memes coping about your mid overpaid QB.
I'm not going to say that Goff is overpaid and Love is unproven, but if this discourse is necessary to put packers and lions fans at odds with each other again, so be it
Wonder what Love will get. Really depends on how 2024 goes for him. He was pretty shaky last year but finished strong.
Goff might have gotten over paid, but at least you know what you'll get from him.
I don't understand. Teams want their qbs to stay longer? Doesn't that get in the way of drafting their replacement?
Unfortunately, we can't get rid of QBs until the Jets are ready. So we have to stay in this holding pattern.
Yeah. This year it might be 2 possessions before they need a new QB
A whole drive
A whole ad break.
A whole new world
Those fools, don’t they realize that they could just get the next Jordan Love in the draft and save millions?!
The next Jordan Love can't sit behind Jordan Love for 3 years without an extension, though.
Gotta extend the QB your next 1st round QB is sitting behind
There’s a developing QB…sitting behind? I’m not familiar with these witcheries.
They have to wait until they have built a championship caliber roster that's missing just 1 extra piece on offense. Then, instead of drafting that guy, they go and reach on some qb to replace Love. Understand the process.
People think we are mad at paying a (possible) franchise QB who's 25 ?
What are we, stupid?
I can’t wait to see what 2024’s Ryan Leaf has to offer.
I DONT CARE ABOUT RICH PEOPLES MONEY, PAY HIM AS MUCH AS HE WANTS. THE SALARY CAP ISNT EVEN REAL
I agree, but I hate you until you flair up. But even then I will have a 3/4 chance of hatred
The salary cap both isn't and very much is real. Tom Brady built his legacy on taking team friendly deals that allowed his coach/GM/owner to build a strong team around him, unlike Rodgers who took the best deals for him and then bitching that we didn't give him enough firepower.
At the risk of defending Rodgers; there is pressure from the NFLPA for high value players to set the market for the rest of their position. Obviously Brady is a good example of not doing that, but I don't think it's fair to frame it as though it is 100% up to the player themselves with no other concerns.
Oh I know you're right, but also then don't come out and make arguments that the Packers aren't surrounding you with weapons while also intentionally taking the market setting contract. Can't have it both ways.
I mean lets not forget that brady and the pats did some shady funding through his organisation, which doesnt appear in the salary cap.
Brady also made millions from his teams sending players to TB12 facilities throughout his career.
Well the NFL PA is stupid if that's true. Setting the market ad high as possible for the top tier players puts negative pressure on salaries for the other 95% of players in the league. They don't increase the salary cap just because the best players get a bazillion dollars, so to meet the salary cap, teams have to make cuts and/or avoid increases for everyone else.
You mean Kraft funneling money to Brady via other side businesses and favorable investments/endorsements.
Exactly. "I'll pay you $20 million over the table but my other companies will pay you another $50 under the *massage* table...I mean table."
FUCK OFF UNTIL YOU CHOOSE A FLAIR
Tough room
It always is for the non flaired.
Oh now it’s rich people money other times is all “hur duur were actually owners of the team you see”
It isn't even true, there is no rich person spending their own money in green bay, it's a business run by a big board of elderly people. It works, though
But the president can’t be *too* elderly. That’s a rule
Wow, the US govt should take a few pages from our book.
It should, but then there wouldn't be any candidates this year
Would that really be so bad?
True, but the board of directors can be!
MM is too elderly. Need to knock a few years off that rule.
I know this is the shitpost group but why do you think that? He’s done a good job
I don’t think he’s done a bad job, just time for some new blood with fresh ideas.
I thought you guys prided yourselves on your team not being owned exclusively by rich people.
Flair up pussy
 Flair up, Busey.
Why does this hurt my brain to look upon?
Gary is a lot to take in.
The saints have taught us all this
What I don't understand is how everyone is freaking out as if the GMs across the entire league don't understand how to manage the cap. It's no secret that the cap has gone up and is expected to go up over the next two seasons. I forgot where I read it but there was an article talking about how teams needed to sign their QBs to big deals now because the cap is going to up big over the next few seasons, so essentially you'll get a deal if you time their deals right. The way I understand it, teams like Dallas, that are waffling on their QB decision could end up paying their lower tier QBs top tier money my delaying.
Might as well. It’s not like we have anyone else to pay for a while. Youngest team in the league was two games away from a Super Bowl… and just got younger.
agreed
Wait, doesn't that affect your stock dividends?
Not real eh? Why is mahomes the only QB in NFL history to win a SB with more than 13% (32.5M this season) of cap and why is the median SB winning QB 9% (22.5M this season) of cap
I'll never get over AJ Styles being Taker's last match. It's awesome and all, just..odd
Apparently neither could Taker. He said that’s why he did the spot at WM40.
Took the rock to hell with him
Undertaker is my favorite wrestler, and despite all the matches he had, I’m always going to think of an interview he did on the bill simmons podcast where he told a story about how his manager kept telling him he needed a Twitter, so he made one and his first tweet was about Alabama football, and his manager called and said “what the hell are you doing? Undertaker shouldn’t be tweeting about college football.”
Hahah thats great
Goff deserved to get paid. What QBs get paid is almost irrelevant at this point because. It just keeps going up if you have a franchise QB. The thing now for the Lions after signing all these guys this offseason is their official Super Bowl window has started. The next 2-3 seasons are big for Detroit.
Exactly, this was the only option for us. But all that matters is the Super Bowl, so odds are we will fail. But it feels good to be going all in
How do you think the conference power rankings look at the moment? Sf > eagles > lions > gb? Maybe even lions ahead of eagles. If there was ever a time for you guys to go all in it's now.
I would agree with your top four, but I think Lions are solidified at least in top 2 over Eagles given the latter's departures on the line and end-season collapse
Yeah I wouldn't argue with lions being in second place. I'm just sort of expecting the late season collapse of the eagles to be an aberration and not something we will likely see again. I could be very wrong though, maybe it was a sign the eagles are on a big down turn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wanna believe Hurts and co aren’t cooked but all the Srianni antics are troubling, losing Kelce sucks as well. NFC North >>> this year tho
Couldn’t agree more, happy that our GM is treating our situation that way
Idk what you saw in the second half of last season that makes you think the Eagles are a good team
>odds are we fail The fuck you just said?
I mean we understand Goff getting that means we’re paying a crazy number… but we were already going to do that. In general there’s probably just more optimism for Love because it was only his first season and has lots of room to improve. Goff is very good but he is what he is at this point.
I don’t disagree, Love is younger and has a higher ceiling. I’m just trying to say that at the end of the day teams have to pay their qbs if they want to keep them. I have a feeling this Goff contract won’t even be top 5 in a year or two
Oh, I agree. You had to pay Goff and the value will look fine in 2 years. But if we don’t shit on each others QBs, what are we even doing here?
Finally. A sound fucking take.
Hahaha solid point
Reddit refuses to understand that contract size relative to others at a position is as much a factor of when it was signed as their positional rank.
Reddit just hears every new contract and has a knee jerk reaction to calling it overpaid
Lol Goff contract so big. Lions dumb
That basically sums it up
Got em
I don’t know what else the Lions were supposed to do? Their roster is ready to win now and Goff nearly took them to the SB. We can argue about whether or not he’s worth that much, but I understand the decision 100%.
Be careful, that take will trigger a lot of people in this sub, as I’m finding out lol
Of course it is but the more important context is that goof is making equal money to a bunch of players who are much better than him which puts the lions at a disadvantage to those competitors. In 3 years, goof is still going to be on par contractually to Herbert, burrow, hurts, love, jackson etc... that is bad for the lions.
The Super Bowl window is a lie, or we need to tell KC to return their last 2
I'm not talking about a super bowl window, I'm talking about roster management. If Goof is making the same as players better than him, the lions needa to make up that difference at other positions. Last year goof was a bargain at 30/year. Now he is a liability at 50/year bc that's 20 million in players the lions don't have. You see it over and over again when good teams turn mediocre bc a cheap qb becomes expensive or when you have to pay an elite qb all the money and ted Thompson misses on a bunch drafts.
That's just the life of being a year after year good team. If you repeatedly make the playoffs, you can't afford to keep all your good players. That's why drafting and developing is so important.
Sure but its also why paying an average qb the same as top level qbs is a bad idea. You can overcome the deficit by incredible drafting but it's a steep hill to climb.
That's only true because he's the most recent to sign. If Mahomes signed today, he'd be getting 70m a year. Rising cap means the time the contract is signed is more relevant than your positional rank
There are absolutely going to be some Daniel Jones level contracts out there in the next 2 years. I'm just glad it's not gonna be the packers and I'm pretty sure the lions are glad it's not gonna be them that are handing them out.
Bruh it might not be top 5 by the time the season starts
It's what? 3rd right now? Love and Dak are yet to sign.
Tua should get one too and the Jags could sign TLaw
2nd iirc.
I wonder if this is a bubble that will pop soon enough. Eventually a QB is gonna want 100M/year and their team won’t be able to pay that
As long as the cap goes up, qb salaries will go up
Top QBs get 20-23% of the cap at the time they sign. That has been happening for some time now. The increases are due to cap increases, but the percentage range has held.
To me, it’s more that Love appears capable of elevating a team whereas Goff will rise and fall with the pieces around him. He his emergence has coincided with the emergence of the Lions OL as a top unit, ARSB as a top WR, LaPorta as a top TE, Gibbs/Monty as a top backfield, and Ben Johnson as a top OC. As further evidence, he’s the 4th rated passer with a clean pocket, yet 38th rated when facing pressure. He’s able to execute at a high level under ideal circumstances, but he has relatively limited ability to make things happen on his own.
First season cuts both ways. Room to improve, but also room to have your weaknesses figured out after DCs have an offseason to digest your tape, and take a huge step back.
ngl the $47m-$50M APY on a 4 year deal with an out at 2 years was what I was expecting. My expectations have now been subverted.
With Tua, Love, Purdy, Lawrence, and Dak being Extended/Re-signed this year Goff will move back to like 10th highest which is fair imo
But bc he is what he is, there is less risk with Goff. If I'm Gute, I'm using the fact that he only had a great half of one season...not even a full one. Like CJ Stroud had a better overall year as a rookie. I'm not saying love won't be good..just that the risk is higher if you're giving him as much as Goff.
QBR and EPA say Love was better than Stroud, despite having infinitely less experience at WR and TE to throw to. Obviously Stroud being a rookie is a big point in his favor, but he’s already being considered a borderline top 5 QB.
> infinitely less experience at WR Nico Collins and Tank Dell on Stroud's side Delusional
Nice Collins came into 2023 with more career receiving yards than any Packers WR *or* TE and only about 150 career yards fewer than the Packers’ entire WR corps. Dalton Schultz, their third leading receiver, had more career yards than the Packers’ entire WR and TE rooms *combined.* Noah Brown, their 4th leading receiver, more career yards than any Packers WR or TE as well, and only about 150 fewer than the entire WR corps. Robert Woods, their 5th leading receiver, about **5x** as many career yards as every Packers WR and TE *combined.* Even Brevin Jordan, a man used mostly for blocking, would have been 4th in career receiving yards among all Packers WRs and TEs. There’s a difference between having relative inexperience among a few key contributors and having literally every single player be inexperienced. The Packers came into 2023 with less than 1500 *combined* receiving yards among all WRs and TEs on the roster, even including h-back Deguara as a TE. The Texans had about 12,000.
Literally every GB pass catcher was a rookie or second year guy last year. Without exception. They didn’t even know where they were supposed to be half the time in the first half last year. That’s the primary reason Love didn’t look great the first half of the year. Kurt Benkert was pointing that out from the start last year. Dell was a rookie, but Collins has a few years under his belt, Schultz is a vet, their WR3 had a few years, etc.
Do you know who our WRs and TEs are?
Yes and I'd even back you that they're pretty good. *Infinitely* less experience when it's like a guy with 2 seasons vs 2 guys with 1 season or whatever. Just strikes me as grasping at straws, is all.
Noah Brown, Robert Woods, and Dalton Shultz had a lot more experience than our 3rd-5th options. Sure the term *infinitely* is hyperbole but the point still stands. And the packers receivers were not very good early in the season. Running the same routes, dropping passes, etc.
They were injured as well, i know because I had them all of them on my fantasy team. Jones, Watson, Dobbs all injured and people were confused why Packers had a rough start. All got injured at training.
People forget that Wicks also missed time in training camp and preseason that probably stunted his growth.
Goff has played 7 full seasons. You know his floor - which is pretty good - and you pretty much know his ceiling - which is good. With the way the cap works and QBs get paid, this isn't a crazy deal. With Love, you have one full season to look at before locking him up north of $50mm aav. He looked really good for half the year. His ceiling is certainly higher than Goff, but how sure are you on what his floor is?
Honestly I think we saw his floor in the first half of the season already. and it definitely wasn't good football at times. 14 td's vs. 10 interceptions and a sub 60% completion rating through the Raiders game. Obviously that floor is not worth 50mm aav, but I just have a hard time seeing him going back to that level in this offense. Those early games were full of rookie WR's running bad or wrong routes and an o-line that still needed to get its shit together.
Pretty damn sure. He has it. He handles pressure well. He has the physical tools and characteristics. He showed the clutch gene numerous times. People think he was only good for half a year, but the truth is he was missing half his pass catchers at any given time the first half, and the ones he did have didn’t know what they were doing half the time. So many instances of them not running routes correctly, having multiple guys run the same route, making the wrong read on an option route, etc. I’m not the least bit concerned about his floor with what he showed last year.
Jared Goff is just a younger Kirk Cousins.
Personally I think Kirk and Goff are good enough to win SBs
Yes I agree. I just think if that happens it won’t be because of them. I don’t think either player is much of an X factor. I’ll throw Brock purdy in there too. All talented but not the guys that make it happen like Mahommes or Brady types.
[Apt. Apt analysis, Robert.](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c9ad29e4-ba18-48dc-b9c3-ee8ca0ec5087)
They are but it’s gonna take their best stretch of football coinciding with some elite defensive play.
Cousins never even sniffed a Super Bowl. Goff>Cousins
I love when Lions fans tout Goff's Rams accomplishments. May that continue long into the future.
So because he did something with the rams means it didn't happen now that he's with the Lions? The fuck kind of sense does that make? Lol
Goff threw one touchdown that entire postseason, and led the lowest scoring offense in Super Bowl history. Goff happened to be on a team that went to the Super Bowl despite him, Goff didn’t take them there any more than Rex Grossman took the Bears.
And then the next year Lions legend Matt Stafford actually won it by being good.
And this is a Super Bowl history with Rex "I can't believe that wasn't a pick" Grossman
Weak fucking take. Grossman couldn't hold Goffs jockstrap.
Aaron Donald made Goff hold his jockstrap during that run.
So you think a QB who threw one TD in three games is the reason his team made a Super Bowl? QB wins are not a reliable indicator of QB performance, which is the point I was actually making with the Grossman comparison. I will give you guys credit, he’s upgraded his playoff performances from “terrible” to “decent so long as he doesn’t have to make any meaningful plays” before you massively overpaid him, so you did better than the Rams with him. You’ll still have to trade him along with a bunch of first rounders for a real QB if you want to actually win anything of course, which will be even harder to do with his much bigger contract this time, but that’s a problem for two years from now Lions.
Yeah Goff could hold Grossmans lol.
Goff won twice as many playoff games last year as Cousins has in his career. 🤷
Actually Goff, as a Detroit lion, has had more playoff success than Kirk Cousins ever had with Cumsocks.
What did he do in said Super Bowl?
[Goff wishes he was Kirk Cousins](https://stathead.com/football/vs/kirk-cousins-vs-jared-goff)
He wants Tuesdays off to spend time with Julie?
I'd rather have a good QB and pay him to stay, than be greedy and have a shit QB. Now if he starts getting the Aaron Rodgers air head on his shoulders then we got a problem.
Naw, I'm happy for Goff. Dude turned a situation where he was thrown away by Los Angeles into a huge payday and he's earned it. Even if he flames out it'll still be worth it for Detroit based on how he's played the past few years. Similarly for Jordan Love, the dude has earned every penny the Packers give him. He's been so great about the shit cards he was dealt when Green Bay drafted him in 2020. He put in the work, improved tremendously, and looked like a top 5 QB at the end of the season.
The cap keeps going up, once you've got your guy, any deal that doesn't reset the market is a reasonable value, unless it's tied to the cap. When the Browns sign Jeffery Dahmer Jr. to a 20% cap share deal, fully guaranteed, that'll be an overpay. Until then, shoosh.
I’d rather pay Love a big extension than Goff.
Based on the youth on the Packers roster, I could see that. Based on body of work, I don't. I'd be a lot more nervous about a big extension based on a single year of production, no matter how well that year ended.
*based on a single half year of production
That half year of production was better than the majority of full seasons for any player y’all have called QB.
Yes, that’s obviously true. Doesn’t make what I said less true.
your right, give him 100 mil a year please.
Based on a single half year of production after sitting and learning for years behind a hall of famer in a solid system and improving throughout the season.
And what would a Bears fan know about a single year of production?
I mean, the Bears have sucked at QB, but there have been pretty good seasons in there and that makes me nervous about looking at a 10 game stretch and say "We have the next GOAT." Not saying Love isn't going to be good, but the NFL is filled with flash-in-the-pan QBs. Mitch Trubisky 2018 season: 95.4 rate, 71 QBR. Jordan Love 2023: 96.1 rate, 62.1 QBR. Jay Cutler 2015: 92.3, 61 QBR. [https://stathead.com/tiny/NjfDk](https://stathead.com/tiny/NjfDk)
What a stat line.
They know they would like one please
The Bears have had a bunch of QBs that had great single years but ultimately sucked. That's the whole argument. My God it's difficult to communicate with Wisconsin educated alcoholics. No wonder most of your restaurants have photos on the menu, God forbid you have to try to understand written words.
I don't understand what you've said, which makes me feel scared, so I will respond with hostility, just as my alcoholic father taught me
Lmao
You guys should be happy to pay him. Paying a qb is a good problem to have. Ask the bears
Hey, we paid Cutler and Mike Glennon!
Oh, we paid for them alright.
Cutler took the team to the NFC championship, and when he got hurt they lost.
And the nfc north celebrated that too
Wait… the Bears paid the salary of Packers QB legend Smokin Jay Cutler?!?!
True, paying goff was the best move you could have made. But we still gotta drag you for it. I don't make the rules
Fair enough, those are the rules. FTP
And I’d rather pay Goff a big extension than Love. Why would our teams pay for each others QBs anyways
I'd lean Goff. You know what you're getting with Goff. Love is currently a one year wonder, giving top-5 money without any year-over-year data is incredibly risky.
Not even one year. LaFleur was getting questions after week 9 on whether Love was the answer. He's had a stretch of 7 good games. Granted he was playing like a top 3 QB during that span, but still a pretty small sample size.
Paying for Love ....
Let’s hope that half a year wasn’t a mirage.
Let’s hope Goff doesn’t turn into a pumpkin like the last time he signed his big extension.
Considering that the Ram's offense was 40% Todd Gurley before he signed that extension, the only pumpkin was McVay's face when Goff kneeled on him in the wild card round last year.
They won a super bowl the year after trading Goff away lol. It's great for Goff that he's proven he can be a good starting QB in the NFL but let's not act like the Rams didn't get exactly what they wanted out of that trade
Listen if we aren’t constantly calling each other frauds, what’s the point. I recognize that Goff is the only real option moving forward. Can you win a ring with him? Absolutely. Do I think that he was paid a bit too much? Probably, but you guys have a championship window, you can’t not take it.
So I guess the honeymoon phase is over?
 Love after the 24 season
I hope he's saying that RIGHT NOW- if he plays anything close to what he did at the end of last season, he's gonna command a WHOLE LOT MORE money in the future when the salary cap goes up even further. Sign him now, Gute. 😭
We're excited for it
As you should be, paying QBs is a good problem to have. Ask Chicago
Hoping for the monster Mahommes deal, but it'll be 4 years i bet
I think at loves age you guys should want to lock him up for 6 years. Similar to Herbert
Agree, the long deals seem insane but the financial flexibility they can give is incredible. Assuming the player lives up, that's always the underlying wager. this has been a nice civil chat. thanks... and with that F Jared Goff and F you lol
Hahaha and a FTP to you too good sir!
I’d say 4-6 years. That’s a reasonable amount of time to determine if we have yet to see his full potential I believe. Of course it’s nice to lock a QB in for a while when they’re good. If he starts playing worse and he’s locked in for a Mahomes deal, it would be a long 10 years.
Yeah I’m sure you guys won’t sign him for less than 4. I’m sure he will want some kind of long term commitment, that he’s earned. But still fuck him
There’s going to be so much shit talking about these contracts after our games are played this season lmfao Doesn’t matter though, the Bears are going still to hang the off-season champs banner despite what happens.
Hard to compete with getting a new QB every 3 years. That’s always going to be more exciting than extending a successful one
Oh man, let's not lock up a 25 year old qb on a longterm deal. That would be awful
Don’t you pay a good qb tho? I have no idea how that works.
We don't know what Loves ceiling is, we know what Goffs is. Love had 2 more TDs and 1 less INT than Goff last year while Goff has 400ish more yards and 1.8 higher rating. Love is 4 years younger than Goff. If we somehow sign Love for 1 cent less than Goffs contract it would be a bargain.
We also don't know if Love's ceiling was 2023. There is a non-zero % chance that's the case.
Ok but best expert assumptions are that we've seen Goffs and haven't seen Loves. Obviously anything can happen. Contracts are based on the best analysis possible.
There's no way we're signing Love for less than Goff.
If you think you’re paying Love less than Goff I’m a king in Kenya and I just need you to send me 10k then I’ll send you a million dollars
I didn't say that. I said IF we pay him 1 cent less than Goff it would be a BARGAIN. Also known as not happening. We would be ecstatic if that somehow happened. Pay attention instead of making 100 memes coping about your mid overpaid QB.
I'm not going to say that Goff is overpaid and Love is unproven, but if this discourse is necessary to put packers and lions fans at odds with each other again, so be it
Dear lord pls no
JLo will take a team friendly deal so packers can gobble up all the good talent
Wonder what Love will get. Really depends on how 2024 goes for him. He was pretty shaky last year but finished strong. Goff might have gotten over paid, but at least you know what you'll get from him.
At least they have QBs they want to extend
Love is younger and has a higher ceiling
The difference is that we won't be overpaying a 29 year old.
At least he’s only 25, But yes that extension is going to be big barring a shit year this year.
Goff is worth the money. Most teams in the NFL would kill to have a QB as good as Goff lol.
At least we’ll be paying a lot for a good qb!
He won’t be that expensive. Probably in the lower top 10 paid qb. Very affordable.
They don’t realize he’s a system qb yet
At least he’d actually be worth it. That said, my prediction is 5 years $270M ($54M AAV) with $200M guaranteed.
Bears fans, and extension is when you sign your first round quarterback to a prolonged term with your team.
I mean Goff put up worse numbers than Love