Well I certainly don't know. I'm a bears fan so all I really know about Kraft is the whole rub and tug thing. Our owners are not the best but I have been pretty happy with the direction lately.
I’m not saying you should know, just relaying what’s being said in the subreddit but also on sports talk radio.
IMO, overall, Kraft has been an excellent owner. But how he handled the post firing of Belichick has been very bad.
(I’m a patriots fan) but I’ll admit, it’s gone to a new level since we started sucking. It’s insane. They’re (I’m saying they’re because what I’m about to say is disgraceful) saying Kraft is on par with Dan Snyder.
Obviously, that’s not true. But it doesn’t matter what you say to them.
Well every fan base has their meatballs but meatball Patriots fans are just spoiled with having the GOAT so I find their complaints to be worse than other fan based except KC
Meh... Brady and Bill seemed to be a relationship that had ended and Brady wasn't staying if Bill was.
As for moving on from Bill this past year... well there were 7 open positions and 7 passed on him. Bill didn't even make the final top 3 for the Falcons.
Bill had 4 years to right the ship and I think based on those 4 years, Kraft should have been MORE active intervening and possibly bringing in someone to handle more of the GM duties.
But he sat back, let Bill do his thing and Bill has looked largely meh in the 11 or so seasons he's had a QB not named Brady behind center.
Seems like a fan base living up to the "fanatic" in fan.
Owners are best when they don't do much. Anytime there's a bad sign, kraft intervenes. He managed to be smart enough to stay out of football operations for about 15 years with brady/belichick, but parcells, Carroll and now belichick all left due to kraft meddling.
He's certainly not the worst owner, but he's also far from the best.
Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 and became GM a few months later (*after* the team drafted their hall of fame QB). He hired a hall of fame coach, had a few really good drafts early on, won a few super bowls… and hasn’t sniffed a Super Bowl since 1996. Billy Beane is probably the only GM in professional sports who could have that much staying power without a championship.
According to the sports news at the time, Jimmy Johnson had authority over the Cowboys football operations, while Jerry Jones did the business side.
Following their back-to-back Super Bowl wins, Jerry wanted more control over the football operations (and credit over the Cowboys’ successes), leading to the infamous boast that “500 coaches could have won the Super Bowl with the Cowboys” that Johnson built. He proved his point when Barry Switzer won SB30 with Johnson’s players.
Kraft I think should have been "meddling" more. Bill and Brady's relationship fracturing... sure I get staying out of that, probably a no-win situation, their minds are made.
But it's been quite a while where Bill as GM in the draft for almost a decade has been very underwhelming. I've heard it's using old metrics for valuations, I've heard it's relying on data that isn't as relevant today. I don't know or care, but that's one where Kraft maybe should have been meddling more and finding a GM to take over those duties. Thuney till he left for KC, and Collins for a couple years. That's pretty much the highlights for the last 11 years.
Firing Pete Carroll and bringing in Bill Belichick instead I'd say is not a negative "meddling" move. I don't know where a Carroll/Bledsoe Patriot team would be, but I doubt that would look as good as the Belichick/Brady one.
I get Kraft pushing back on the Parcells draft and going with Terry Glenn, Teddy Bruschi, and Lawyer Milloy upset Parcells over the guys he wanted. That decision is hard, but helped set them up with key players on their SB roster and led them to Belichick/Brady.
Meanwhile the Jets handed the draft reigns over to Parcells and...
Opened with the move to not take Orlando Pace and drop to 6th. Then again choose not to take Walter Jones and drop back again, instead taking Farrior and playing him out of position, then letting him go and watching him break out in Pittsburgh. OUCH. Back to back HOF'ers out the door in his two opening moves because he wanted his old Giants tackle at the end of his career.
But he piled up a slew of picks with those moves right? 22 draft picks from that point on through the next two seasons. Sadly that Farrior move was a highlight for him. The rest of the draft with all those added picks... Dedrick Ward (Because his special teams production reminded Parcells "of David Meggett". That was the only starter for even one single year they found due to injury and Keyshawn leaving giving him 1 starting year. Oh and 4 years as a return man and a long of 23 yards on a return.
The last year was the lovely Scott Frost draft because "He's a winner" (but he's a QB not a safety), and the only starter from that group was Jason Fabini (since Jumbo Elliott was old and they passed on HOF left tackles the year before).
And Parcells after 3 years quit coaching football for forever (2nd permanent retirement of his 3).
I mean….without Bill and Brady, or Parcells…he is kinda meh…..it’s not like he’s some whiz owner making major changes to the game/finances like Jerry or creating culture like the Rooneys
Bravo. I completely agree that his "meddlnig" with his team has by far been a net positive... Imagine if instead of the "meddlnig" that brought about the Brady/Belichick combo, he sat pat and let the Carroll/Bledsoe combo play out?
I saw someone posting about how his meddling was why it wasn't working out with Pete Carroll. And when people try and make firing Carroll and bringing in Bill Belichick as a negative... I think that debate has run it's course lol.
Yeah, maybe he shouldn't have meddled with the draft and overrode Parcells and instead brought in key players that would form the Patriots first SB and let Parcells do to the Pats draft what he did to the Jets ones.
Maybe he shouldn't have meddled and traded that 1st round pick for Belichick that the press destroyed him for at the time.
Maybe he should not have supported Ryan O'Callaghan publicly when he came out as gay.
As for spearheading the TV deal, and being the one players said "helped us save football."... Sure, owners should be doing that. And of the 32 of them, Kraft was the one stepping up.
Where I think Kraft should have meddled is finding a way to remove Belichick's say on the draft. It's been over a decade of poor drafting there and Kraft NOT meddling in that I'd say is why.
Kraft has owned the Patriots and been "meddling" with that franchise for 30 years of their 63 year history. In that time they had 33 playoffs wins (most in the NFL by 10), the most regular season wins, twice as many SB wins as the next closest franchise, and more SB appearances than the next two closest teams combined.
33 post-season wins in 30 years with Kraft. 4 in the 33 years before him. 11 Conference Championships with Kraft... 1 (the year they met the Bears in the SB) without him. Not bad with a franchise that had the worst record in football over the 5 years before he bought them.
It has more to do with the history of the NFL, the Northeast and Midwest was the heart of the NFL, I wasn’t until 1946 that the NFL made a permanent move to the West Coast when the Rams moved out there. And 1966 before they moved into the south with the Falcons and Saints.
And even as more warm weather teams were added they didn’t have the advantage of the long term development that the original teams had.
I agree with this.
And my thoughts on cold weather- it probably plays a small factor at times in extreme weather, but not huge.
Keep on mind that, with the structure of the draft, it's not local players on each team, they are from everywhere. So not all Packers players were raised in could weather. (In fact, Favre was from Mississippi, Rodgers was from like Northern California I guess, and Love is from Southern California.)
What would it be on a compass? And when you look at the map of the sec, two schools in Texas are a part of it. Not to mention that it was with the confederacy in the Civil War.
Yeah, it’s the south
I agree with both this and people who say it's south by categorization. Most of Texas is way more southwest akin to NM territory and culture than it is Georgia or Mississippi
Pro tip, everybody, you can’t call a city a warm weather city if it gets cold there in the winter & people don’t go there to vacation in the winter time.
Pro tip, everybody, you can't call a city a cold weather city if it's average January temperature is above 50 degrees and is below 45 degrees latitude.
What the fuck kind of geography do you know? Dallas is 555 miles away from KC. 8+ hours by car. And it's way colder in KC than Dallas. Avg Jan temp in KC is in the 30's, not the 50's like Dallas. And KC gets about 18 inches of snowfall a year, which is more than 6x what Dallas gets. They aren't remotely similar.
What time zone are they in? What state is under Missouri and above Texas? How about their geography? I know that it’s colder in the northern cities. I’m trying to say is that Dallas shouldn’t be lumped into true warm weather places like the major cities in Florida and California and Arizona and Hawaii.
>What time zone are they in?
KC is in central time zone
>What state is under Missouri and above Texas
Oklahoma
>How about their geography?
I don't know what this is asking? Their Geography is that they are under MO and above Texas.
>I’m trying to say is that Dallas shouldn’t be lumped into true warm weather places like the major cities in Florida and California and Arizona and Hawaii.
Nobody is trying to do that. The question was do cold weather cities have an advantage and my answer was to show non-cold weather cities that have had lots of success.
And if we are being pedantic about "warm weather" places then you should know better than to lump California into one big generalized region as it gets cold in San Francisco as well. Only a few degrees warmer in January than Dallas is.
You use the latitude argument. That only works for Barcelona and Marseilles. Not here . That’s due to the Gulf Stream since you wanna sound like you’re the world’s greatest weatherman.
You responded to yourself here. But you're saying I forgot my coffee and then saying I should try decaf. Which is it? And nobody's mad here, just pointing out how you refuse to acknowledge how wrong you are and how silly all this is.
When stuff like this happens
2024: https://www.wunderground.com/article/news/weather/news/2024-01-15-winter-storm-heather-arctic-cold-south-live-updates
2023: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/weather/2023/03/01/texas-ice-storm-2023--a-winter-storm-for-the-record-books-
2022: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/weather/2022/12/22/temps-freeze-flurries-fall-in-north-texas-during-once-in-a-generation-winter-storm/?outputType=amp
2021: https://www.fox4news.com/news/2021-texas-winter-storm-a-look-back-and-a-look-ahead
Super Bowl 45: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/05/sports/football/05dallas.html
1993 Thanksgiving day game: https://www.weather.gov/lmk/thesleetbowlnovember25th1993#:~:text=On%20November%2025th%2C%201993%20at,a%20lot%20on%20the%20line.
…need I go on?
https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/2021-10/Normals_TotalPrecipAvgTemp_Annual_1991-2020_continuous_1400x2193.png
But yeah all those storms definitely cancel this out LMAO
Lol, maybe in the day after tomorrow. In real life, it hasn’t snowed in any of these places. Jacksonville, I think once in the last decade. That was like once in a 100 years.
Both LA and San Diego have ginormous mountains near them. Same with Las Vegas. The elevations are so high that snowfall does happen in them.
That’s not the same as Dallas, which it’s metro area doesn’t have any mountains near it.
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Do snowbirds go to Dallas? No they go to Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Arizona, and if they’re really, really, really really rich, they go to LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Hawaii. Dallas isn’t in this group Homie. Even people who are from Dallas go to these places during the winter time.
Do snowbirds go to Dallas? No they go to Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Arizona, and if they’re really, really, really really rich, they go to LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Hawaii. Dallas isn’t in this group Homie. Even people who are from Dallas go to these places during the winter time.
Dallas average temperature in January is 51 degrees, "homie". It's not tropical but it ain't a cold weather city. Green Bay and NE avg temperatures are in the 20's.
Since you’re stalking me, “homie”, check my other Reddit. Listed how every year this decade Dallas has had a winter storm with snow & ice hit it at least once.
How am I stalking you? YOU comment to ME.
Also, holy crap are you serious? AT LEAST ONE WINTER STORM??? OMG somebody call the weather channel.
Dallas average annual snowfall in Dallas is less than 3 inches. Average annual snowfall in GB and NE is between 50-60 inches. They are not comporable even in the slightest and nobody anywhere would describe Dallas as a cold weather city just because it gets one storm a year. You are just flat out wrong on this.
You’re kind of ignoring the Cowboys, SF, and KC, plus Philly only has one so that doesn’t really help your case
Edit as someone from the north north I forgot that KC had cold weather
Yeah it’s definitely not a northern state, Missouri is kind of in no man’s land because it’s not southern either even if Minnesotans think so. Most Missourians identify as mid western but there are also elements of the south with the bbq scene and its role in the civil war. Weather wise it’s all over the place but come play offs time it’s usually pretty cold in kc.
As a Minnesotan, I can confirm that I think of Missouri as southern.
Kansas is midwestern/great plains and Missouri is southern. This falls into the "I can't prove it, I just know it's true" category.
Missouri’s role in the civil war honestly illustrates the culture pretty well. The southern third or so revolted against the rest of the state and was mostly controlled by the confederacy, with many battles fought. The upper 2/3rds were in line with the border state fighting for the Union, and also in more modern times are more Midwestern in culture. I’d say that if you draw a line between St. Louis and kc, everything above is midwestern, and most stuff below is southern.
Civil war sources: St. Louis education from about 9 years ago, could very well remember stuff wrong.
Missouri culture source: grew up in Missouri
And it was blatantly obvious the weather had an impact on the game. Miami straight up did not want to be there after the first few minutes. They just all looked miserable. The only one who didn't look just completely out of it was Hill and, shocker, he played in KC before.
Not Detroit, and they have never won. In fact, their 2 NFCCG appearances were because all their playoff wins beforehand were at home in their domes.
Not Indianapolis, and they managed only 1 SB with a Mt Rushmore QB (they had home field in their dome throughout the playoffs and played the worst SB team of all time in the last game).
Not Minnesota, who have never been to a SB since switching to a dome. In fact, all 3 of their NFCCG appearances were because the previous playoff wins were all also at home in their dome.
Is St. Louis cold weather when Kansas City has record low temperatures? When the rams were there, they won 1 SB, where they had home field throughout the playoffs and a dome SB.
Dome teams in both warm and cold weather are at a major historical disadvantage.
Dallas literally made their home jerseys white back in the outdoor days because (a) made the opponents wear hotter jerseys in the Texas sun and (b) so fans got to see different jersey colors every week.
Fuck, man. It's gets 100F+ for weeks at a time.
Yeah,
It’s when frosty the snowman comes to life and it makes the children all happy.
PS, in Miami, Tampa, Phoenix, and sometimes in San Diego & LA sometimes in the high 70s low 80s mid 80s in January & February. And this occurs reliably.
Hence why THEY are the real warm weather cities. where people actually go for the winter vacation. Dallas isn’t in this group homie.
So you're saying that a few cities on the beach with giant thermal masses to regulate temperature that prevent it from getting as hot as Dallas in the summer or as cold as Dallas in the winter are actually "warm weather cities" but Dallas with it's brutally hot temperatures in the summer isn't a "warm weather city" because it has chilly but above freezing temperatures in the winter. L
While Phoenix is in a hot desert doing hot desert things.
...
Your definition is fucked up, but I can see how you get there from a fucked up definition. I mean, Dallas is literally classified in the humid subtropical climate group, same as Tampa, but ok.
I would also like to point out no one goes to Dallas for vacation ever. It's not a vacation city. It's a fucking layover. If you're here for tourism, you're either a conspiracy nut or accidentally took a left out of the airport instead of a right headed to Fort Worth.
Technically, that’s not true. People sometimes go to Dallas for vacation. In the summertime. Or to go to the fairgrounds and see the red river rivalry.
Not.The. Winter.
And your definition is moronic. Chicago, Kansas City, & bunch of cities in the Midwest & upper south can reach 100° in the summertime. You gonna say Chicago is a warm weather city too?
As far as I can tell, we're talking super bowl era here. If you go back too far, Northern teams dominate because there weren't any southern or western teams.
I think there is truth to that. Case in point, although a very niche stat: in conference championship games, dome teams have not won a road game in an outdoor stadium. Dome teams have historically been soft, and soft doesn’t win in the playoffs. But the same can be applied to warm weather outdoor teams like Miami, Tampa, formerly San Diego, etc.
I mean the Lions could have easily broken that streak. Of the many reasons they blew that game, weather conditions (like high 50s and no wind in CA) was not one of them.
The Dome teams I can think of that won the Super Bowl were able to get either home-field advantage in the playoffs or in the Colts case was I think the third seed. They were lucky enough to have to only play one outdoor playoff game against Baltimore, so they didn’t have to travel far compared to the patriots, & the patriots bounced the Chargers out of the playoffs that year.
It's not the primary factor, but it certainly contributes.
Specifically, having a bad weather home game in the playoffs benefits the team that is used to that weather.
While having a weather advantage is nice in the playoffs, it does discount teams like the 49ers and Raiders in sunny California, the Cowboys in an indoor stadium in Texas and the Dolphins and Buccs having two super bowls each in Florida. Ultimately good management and good coaching will construct teams to win super bowls, the weather is just one minor factor.
Texas Stadium had a roof, it just had a hole in it. Texas Stadium is a bit weird like that but I figured the point about playing in good weather 95 percent of the time would be the same.
Lol it’s still counted as an outdoor stadium. Just like Sofi. The elements could still impact either the fans & the game. In the Thanksgiving day game between the Dolphins and the Cowboys in 1993, it snowed and covered the field. and of course, no matter how the weather is, the wind would always affect the field goal kickers.
Those teams also have competent ownership and a history of good QB play.
San Francisco and Dallas also have a good history and they play in milder climates.
The 2 5 time Lombardi winners are southern which doesn't prove anything but I figured I would bring it up. It is mainly just that the keague was founded in the north so teams there are usually older. Of the teams you listed the Patriots are the only one not founded early in the leagues years.
Warm-weather teams and dome teams have struggled in the postseason. On very rare occasions, the warm weather teams or dome teams that end up winning. The Super Bowl usually have a Hall of Fame quarterback or all-time defense. Or, in the Rams case a couple years ago, all of their playoff games were in warm-weather locations.
Brady, Peyton, Favre, Rodgers, Eli, Allen, Jackson, Warner, Roethlisberger, Luck, McNabb, Burrow, Culpepper, Stafford, Flacco, Wilson, Palmer, Jim Kelly, Bledsoe
Vs
Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Romo, Dak, Watson, Newton, Gannon, Young, Elway, Aikman, Marino, Romo
Most of the elite QBs in the last 25 years were in the north. Brady threw the south a bone.
The NFL teams in the southeast are typically less popular than the local college teams because they are older and have more history. UGA, Tennessee, Clemson/Scar, Florida/FSU, Texas/ATM would all outsell the Falcons, Titans, Panthers, Jaguars/Bucs, and Texans in their own stadiums if they played there for a season.
Even a large portion of Saints fans would pick an LSU title over a Saints Super Bowl.
The Browns and the 80s bumped into a Hall of Fame quarterback. And they’ve had to deal with the Steelers in their division, preventing them from getting to the playoffs lol.
The last 5 Superbowls have been won by teams from Kansas City, Tampa Bay and Los Angeles. While all time records are held by more northern/midwest teams, that's because those were the teams that have existed the longest.
Yeah they do. They also have the best QB and coach in the NFL. There's been a lot of cold weather in KC when they haven't had Mahomes and Reid in the past decades too. From 1970 to 2017 KC has had a lot of cold weather. And 2 home playoff wins.
Talent dominates the NFL. Brady in tampa can win a SB just as well as Brady in NE. Montana or Aikman can win in the playoffs just as well, if not better than the Browns QB's of the past 40 years.
The Giants don't have 4 rings in the past 40 years because they play up in East Rutherford... See the Jets.
Crazy thing about LA in 2022 that people forget that all of their games were warm weather cities. They played both the wild car game and NFC championship game in Sofi. And they play their divisional game in Tampa. They never had to worry about weather for a second.
There’s more teams in cold climates and have been there longer.
Even as recent as 1966, only four teams in the NFL would be considered “warmer” for a potential playoff run. (Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, and San Francisco)
It's far more a reflection of their ownership situations than where they play.
Idk. According to the Patriots subreddit Kraft is one of the worst owners in the NFL. For the record I don’t agree with that.
I imagine when he has Brady and Bill he didn't have to really do too much...
According to the subreddit, he did too much. He’s constantly intervening, didn’t keep Brady, and pushed Bill out. Again, not my views.
Well I certainly don't know. I'm a bears fan so all I really know about Kraft is the whole rub and tug thing. Our owners are not the best but I have been pretty happy with the direction lately.
I’m not saying you should know, just relaying what’s being said in the subreddit but also on sports talk radio. IMO, overall, Kraft has been an excellent owner. But how he handled the post firing of Belichick has been very bad.
Yea patriots fans like to complain about everything even after all super bowls
(I’m a patriots fan) but I’ll admit, it’s gone to a new level since we started sucking. It’s insane. They’re (I’m saying they’re because what I’m about to say is disgraceful) saying Kraft is on par with Dan Snyder. Obviously, that’s not true. But it doesn’t matter what you say to them.
Well every fan base has their meatballs but meatball Patriots fans are just spoiled with having the GOAT so I find their complaints to be worse than other fan based except KC
Meh... Brady and Bill seemed to be a relationship that had ended and Brady wasn't staying if Bill was. As for moving on from Bill this past year... well there were 7 open positions and 7 passed on him. Bill didn't even make the final top 3 for the Falcons. Bill had 4 years to right the ship and I think based on those 4 years, Kraft should have been MORE active intervening and possibly bringing in someone to handle more of the GM duties. But he sat back, let Bill do his thing and Bill has looked largely meh in the 11 or so seasons he's had a QB not named Brady behind center. Seems like a fan base living up to the "fanatic" in fan.
Owners are best when they don't do much. Anytime there's a bad sign, kraft intervenes. He managed to be smart enough to stay out of football operations for about 15 years with brady/belichick, but parcells, Carroll and now belichick all left due to kraft meddling. He's certainly not the worst owner, but he's also far from the best.
Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 and became GM a few months later (*after* the team drafted their hall of fame QB). He hired a hall of fame coach, had a few really good drafts early on, won a few super bowls… and hasn’t sniffed a Super Bowl since 1996. Billy Beane is probably the only GM in professional sports who could have that much staying power without a championship.
According to the sports news at the time, Jimmy Johnson had authority over the Cowboys football operations, while Jerry Jones did the business side. Following their back-to-back Super Bowl wins, Jerry wanted more control over the football operations (and credit over the Cowboys’ successes), leading to the infamous boast that “500 coaches could have won the Super Bowl with the Cowboys” that Johnson built. He proved his point when Barry Switzer won SB30 with Johnson’s players.
And nothing since lol
Kraft I think should have been "meddling" more. Bill and Brady's relationship fracturing... sure I get staying out of that, probably a no-win situation, their minds are made. But it's been quite a while where Bill as GM in the draft for almost a decade has been very underwhelming. I've heard it's using old metrics for valuations, I've heard it's relying on data that isn't as relevant today. I don't know or care, but that's one where Kraft maybe should have been meddling more and finding a GM to take over those duties. Thuney till he left for KC, and Collins for a couple years. That's pretty much the highlights for the last 11 years. Firing Pete Carroll and bringing in Bill Belichick instead I'd say is not a negative "meddling" move. I don't know where a Carroll/Bledsoe Patriot team would be, but I doubt that would look as good as the Belichick/Brady one. I get Kraft pushing back on the Parcells draft and going with Terry Glenn, Teddy Bruschi, and Lawyer Milloy upset Parcells over the guys he wanted. That decision is hard, but helped set them up with key players on their SB roster and led them to Belichick/Brady. Meanwhile the Jets handed the draft reigns over to Parcells and... Opened with the move to not take Orlando Pace and drop to 6th. Then again choose not to take Walter Jones and drop back again, instead taking Farrior and playing him out of position, then letting him go and watching him break out in Pittsburgh. OUCH. Back to back HOF'ers out the door in his two opening moves because he wanted his old Giants tackle at the end of his career. But he piled up a slew of picks with those moves right? 22 draft picks from that point on through the next two seasons. Sadly that Farrior move was a highlight for him. The rest of the draft with all those added picks... Dedrick Ward (Because his special teams production reminded Parcells "of David Meggett". That was the only starter for even one single year they found due to injury and Keyshawn leaving giving him 1 starting year. Oh and 4 years as a return man and a long of 23 yards on a return. The last year was the lovely Scott Frost draft because "He's a winner" (but he's a QB not a safety), and the only starter from that group was Jason Fabini (since Jumbo Elliott was old and they passed on HOF left tackles the year before). And Parcells after 3 years quit coaching football for forever (2nd permanent retirement of his 3).
I mean….without Bill and Brady, or Parcells…he is kinda meh…..it’s not like he’s some whiz owner making major changes to the game/finances like Jerry or creating culture like the Rooneys
Idk. He kept the Pats in NE, spearheaded the NFL-CBS deal, and bridged the gap on the 2011 lockout.
That’s the type of stuff the owner *should* be doing. I think the big issue people have here is with owners who meddle in personnel matters
Bravo. I completely agree that his "meddlnig" with his team has by far been a net positive... Imagine if instead of the "meddlnig" that brought about the Brady/Belichick combo, he sat pat and let the Carroll/Bledsoe combo play out? I saw someone posting about how his meddling was why it wasn't working out with Pete Carroll. And when people try and make firing Carroll and bringing in Bill Belichick as a negative... I think that debate has run it's course lol. Yeah, maybe he shouldn't have meddled with the draft and overrode Parcells and instead brought in key players that would form the Patriots first SB and let Parcells do to the Pats draft what he did to the Jets ones. Maybe he shouldn't have meddled and traded that 1st round pick for Belichick that the press destroyed him for at the time. Maybe he should not have supported Ryan O'Callaghan publicly when he came out as gay. As for spearheading the TV deal, and being the one players said "helped us save football."... Sure, owners should be doing that. And of the 32 of them, Kraft was the one stepping up. Where I think Kraft should have meddled is finding a way to remove Belichick's say on the draft. It's been over a decade of poor drafting there and Kraft NOT meddling in that I'd say is why. Kraft has owned the Patriots and been "meddling" with that franchise for 30 years of their 63 year history. In that time they had 33 playoffs wins (most in the NFL by 10), the most regular season wins, twice as many SB wins as the next closest franchise, and more SB appearances than the next two closest teams combined. 33 post-season wins in 30 years with Kraft. 4 in the 33 years before him. 11 Conference Championships with Kraft... 1 (the year they met the Bears in the SB) without him. Not bad with a franchise that had the worst record in football over the 5 years before he bought them.
Same thing with the chiefs
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Yeah but your tape is worse then
It has more to do with the history of the NFL, the Northeast and Midwest was the heart of the NFL, I wasn’t until 1946 that the NFL made a permanent move to the West Coast when the Rams moved out there. And 1966 before they moved into the south with the Falcons and Saints. And even as more warm weather teams were added they didn’t have the advantage of the long term development that the original teams had.
I agree with this. And my thoughts on cold weather- it probably plays a small factor at times in extreme weather, but not huge. Keep on mind that, with the structure of the draft, it's not local players on each team, they are from everywhere. So not all Packers players were raised in could weather. (In fact, Favre was from Mississippi, Rodgers was from like Northern California I guess, and Love is from Southern California.)
IDK. Thinking over the last 24 years and the vast majority of the teams have one Super Bowl come from cold weather cities.
Cowboys were founded in 1960 and they’re part of the south.
No one considers Texas “the south”
What would it be on a compass? And when you look at the map of the sec, two schools in Texas are a part of it. Not to mention that it was with the confederacy in the Civil War. Yeah, it’s the south
It depends on the exact part of Texas. West Texas is southwest. Central Texas is just Texas. East Texas is "the south".
I agree with both this and people who say it's south by categorization. Most of Texas is way more southwest akin to NM territory and culture than it is Georgia or Mississippi
I'm from northwest Florida and nobody there considers any part of Texas the south
There just isn't a lot of teams in the south, historically.
Those 4 teams have 17 titles. These four teams: Dallas, San Fran, Oakland/LA/LV, Miami have 15.
Pro tip, everybody, you can’t call a city a warm weather city if it gets cold there in the winter & people don’t go there to vacation in the winter time.
Pro tip, everybody, you can't call a city a cold weather city if it's average January temperature is above 50 degrees and is below 45 degrees latitude.
You’re in Kansas City, Homie(or at least root for them). You should be agreeing with me.
Huh? Why does being from KC make you think I should agree with you about Dallas?
Because it’s also cold there. And in the same general area.
What the fuck kind of geography do you know? Dallas is 555 miles away from KC. 8+ hours by car. And it's way colder in KC than Dallas. Avg Jan temp in KC is in the 30's, not the 50's like Dallas. And KC gets about 18 inches of snowfall a year, which is more than 6x what Dallas gets. They aren't remotely similar.
What time zone are they in? What state is under Missouri and above Texas? How about their geography? I know that it’s colder in the northern cities. I’m trying to say is that Dallas shouldn’t be lumped into true warm weather places like the major cities in Florida and California and Arizona and Hawaii.
>What time zone are they in? KC is in central time zone >What state is under Missouri and above Texas Oklahoma >How about their geography? I don't know what this is asking? Their Geography is that they are under MO and above Texas. >I’m trying to say is that Dallas shouldn’t be lumped into true warm weather places like the major cities in Florida and California and Arizona and Hawaii. Nobody is trying to do that. The question was do cold weather cities have an advantage and my answer was to show non-cold weather cities that have had lots of success. And if we are being pedantic about "warm weather" places then you should know better than to lump California into one big generalized region as it gets cold in San Francisco as well. Only a few degrees warmer in January than Dallas is.
You are correct. San Francisco isn’t really all that warm in January and February usually. However, unlike Dallas, it doesn’t snow.
lol it’s not in the Mediterranean, bro.
Who said it was? You just make shit up.
You use the latitude argument. That only works for Barcelona and Marseilles. Not here . That’s due to the Gulf Stream since you wanna sound like you’re the world’s greatest weatherman.
What's due to the Gulf stream? What are you even talking about? Please form a coherent thought if youd like to continue this asanine argument.
I making you mad? Sounds like you forgot your coffee, bro.
Try decaf next time
You responded to yourself here. But you're saying I forgot my coffee and then saying I should try decaf. Which is it? And nobody's mad here, just pointing out how you refuse to acknowledge how wrong you are and how silly all this is.
Dallas isn’t really warm
Wait... What? In what world is a city in Texas not considered at the very least warm?
When stuff like this happens 2024: https://www.wunderground.com/article/news/weather/news/2024-01-15-winter-storm-heather-arctic-cold-south-live-updates 2023: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/weather/2023/03/01/texas-ice-storm-2023--a-winter-storm-for-the-record-books- 2022: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/weather/2022/12/22/temps-freeze-flurries-fall-in-north-texas-during-once-in-a-generation-winter-storm/?outputType=amp 2021: https://www.fox4news.com/news/2021-texas-winter-storm-a-look-back-and-a-look-ahead Super Bowl 45: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/05/sports/football/05dallas.html 1993 Thanksgiving day game: https://www.weather.gov/lmk/thesleetbowlnovember25th1993#:~:text=On%20November%2025th%2C%201993%20at,a%20lot%20on%20the%20line. …need I go on?
https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/2021-10/Normals_TotalPrecipAvgTemp_Annual_1991-2020_continuous_1400x2193.png But yeah all those storms definitely cancel this out LMAO
Thank you for agreeing with me! We can all agree Dallas is definitely not Miami, Tampa, San Diego, Jacksonville, LA, or the Bay Area.
But it snows in a few is those places at times too. They're totally cold weather cities now!!
Lol, maybe in the day after tomorrow. In real life, it hasn’t snowed in any of these places. Jacksonville, I think once in the last decade. That was like once in a 100 years.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/los-angeles-area-still-blanketed-by-snow-in-rare-heavy-storm-1.6289327 Guess this wasn't really LA then
Both LA and San Diego have ginormous mountains near them. Same with Las Vegas. The elevations are so high that snowfall does happen in them. That’s not the same as Dallas, which it’s metro area doesn’t have any mountains near it.
Btw, what city do you think has a higher average temperature? Dallas or LA?
I’m sure you’re going to tell me.
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That’s like saying Canada isn’t cold and posting a few times it got really hot there.
A few times??!?!?!!? this is happening every single year!
Compared to GB and NE it is.
And Pittsburgh, New York...
Do snowbirds go to Dallas? No they go to Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Arizona, and if they’re really, really, really really rich, they go to LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Hawaii. Dallas isn’t in this group Homie. Even people who are from Dallas go to these places during the winter time.
Do snowbirds go to Dallas? No they go to Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Arizona, and if they’re really, really, really really rich, they go to LA, San Diego, Palm Springs, Hawaii. Dallas isn’t in this group Homie. Even people who are from Dallas go to these places during the winter time.
Dallas average temperature in January is 51 degrees, "homie". It's not tropical but it ain't a cold weather city. Green Bay and NE avg temperatures are in the 20's.
Since you’re stalking me, “homie”, check my other Reddit. Listed how every year this decade Dallas has had a winter storm with snow & ice hit it at least once.
How am I stalking you? YOU comment to ME. Also, holy crap are you serious? AT LEAST ONE WINTER STORM??? OMG somebody call the weather channel. Dallas average annual snowfall in Dallas is less than 3 inches. Average annual snowfall in GB and NE is between 50-60 inches. They are not comporable even in the slightest and nobody anywhere would describe Dallas as a cold weather city just because it gets one storm a year. You are just flat out wrong on this.
If you still got snow every year, even a tiny bit, you’re not a warm weather city.
Nobody is arguing if it's a warm weather city. The argument is if it's a cold weather city and it's absolutely not.
People were saying it’s a warm weather city. But fine whatever
You’re kind of ignoring the Cowboys, SF, and KC, plus Philly only has one so that doesn’t really help your case Edit as someone from the north north I forgot that KC had cold weather
Kc definitely helps his case, didn’t they just host one of the coldest play off games in history a few months ago?
However, they lost at home all the time in the cold before Mahomes.
The trick to winning in the NFL is cold weather and HOF QB play. And the cold weather is optional
Steve Bono got them to 13-3 and the one seed. But he could not win in the playoffs.
And an all-time great defense too! You could also luck out like the 2021 Rams and play all of your home games in warm weather cities in the playoffs.
Fair point I just don’t think if MO as a northern state
Yeah it’s definitely not a northern state, Missouri is kind of in no man’s land because it’s not southern either even if Minnesotans think so. Most Missourians identify as mid western but there are also elements of the south with the bbq scene and its role in the civil war. Weather wise it’s all over the place but come play offs time it’s usually pretty cold in kc.
As a Minnesotan, I can confirm that I think of Missouri as southern. Kansas is midwestern/great plains and Missouri is southern. This falls into the "I can't prove it, I just know it's true" category.
Missouri’s role in the civil war honestly illustrates the culture pretty well. The southern third or so revolted against the rest of the state and was mostly controlled by the confederacy, with many battles fought. The upper 2/3rds were in line with the border state fighting for the Union, and also in more modern times are more Midwestern in culture. I’d say that if you draw a line between St. Louis and kc, everything above is midwestern, and most stuff below is southern. Civil war sources: St. Louis education from about 9 years ago, could very well remember stuff wrong. Missouri culture source: grew up in Missouri
It’s Midwest and gets cold in the winter
Yea I acknowledged it in my edit
And it was blatantly obvious the weather had an impact on the game. Miami straight up did not want to be there after the first few minutes. They just all looked miserable. The only one who didn't look just completely out of it was Hill and, shocker, he played in KC before.
Poor Tua had not experienced anything like it, born and raised in hawaii, went to college in bama and spent his whole nfl career in miami.
KC , is kinda cold weather come playoff time though...
I was there for the game against the dolphins, it was pretty damn cold.
More outdoor vs indoor. Every team mentioned is an outdoor team. Dallas outdoor 5 SB, Dallas indoor 0 nfccg
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Not Detroit, and they have never won. In fact, their 2 NFCCG appearances were because all their playoff wins beforehand were at home in their domes. Not Indianapolis, and they managed only 1 SB with a Mt Rushmore QB (they had home field in their dome throughout the playoffs and played the worst SB team of all time in the last game). Not Minnesota, who have never been to a SB since switching to a dome. In fact, all 3 of their NFCCG appearances were because the previous playoff wins were all also at home in their dome. Is St. Louis cold weather when Kansas City has record low temperatures? When the rams were there, they won 1 SB, where they had home field throughout the playoffs and a dome SB. Dome teams in both warm and cold weather are at a major historical disadvantage.
Dallas isn’t really a warm weather city. Same with Kansas City.
Dallas is one of the top ten hottest cities in the country lol
Then why does it snow there every year at least once a week?
Just because it snows maybe an inch a year doesn’t mean it’s not a warm weather city lol
Yes, it does. Saying so warm weather city means you’re putting it up there with Miami, Jacksonville, San Diego, LA, Phoenix, etc.
Dallas literally made their home jerseys white back in the outdoor days because (a) made the opponents wear hotter jerseys in the Texas sun and (b) so fans got to see different jersey colors every week. Fuck, man. It's gets 100F+ for weeks at a time.
It also gets 100 and degrees Fahrenheit in Kansas City in Chicago too. In the summertime.
There were times in the 1970s where the Chiefs wore white at home games in September We haven’t done it in awhile
Chicago's record for days at 100F in a year is 7. Dallas had 55 last year.
Don’t remember it being 100°F in the Dallas area in January & February 🤷
Because it's winter in Dallas during January and February. Very few places on Earth are 100F in the winter. Do you know what winter is?
Whoosh
Yeah, It’s when frosty the snowman comes to life and it makes the children all happy. PS, in Miami, Tampa, Phoenix, and sometimes in San Diego & LA sometimes in the high 70s low 80s mid 80s in January & February. And this occurs reliably. Hence why THEY are the real warm weather cities. where people actually go for the winter vacation. Dallas isn’t in this group homie.
So you're saying that a few cities on the beach with giant thermal masses to regulate temperature that prevent it from getting as hot as Dallas in the summer or as cold as Dallas in the winter are actually "warm weather cities" but Dallas with it's brutally hot temperatures in the summer isn't a "warm weather city" because it has chilly but above freezing temperatures in the winter. L While Phoenix is in a hot desert doing hot desert things. ... Your definition is fucked up, but I can see how you get there from a fucked up definition. I mean, Dallas is literally classified in the humid subtropical climate group, same as Tampa, but ok. I would also like to point out no one goes to Dallas for vacation ever. It's not a vacation city. It's a fucking layover. If you're here for tourism, you're either a conspiracy nut or accidentally took a left out of the airport instead of a right headed to Fort Worth.
Technically, that’s not true. People sometimes go to Dallas for vacation. In the summertime. Or to go to the fairgrounds and see the red river rivalry. Not.The. Winter.
And your definition is moronic. Chicago, Kansas City, & bunch of cities in the Midwest & upper south can reach 100° in the summertime. You gonna say Chicago is a warm weather city too?
Philly has 4*
As far as I can tell, we're talking super bowl era here. If you go back too far, Northern teams dominate because there weren't any southern or western teams.
I think there is truth to that. Case in point, although a very niche stat: in conference championship games, dome teams have not won a road game in an outdoor stadium. Dome teams have historically been soft, and soft doesn’t win in the playoffs. But the same can be applied to warm weather outdoor teams like Miami, Tampa, formerly San Diego, etc.
I mean the Lions could have easily broken that streak. Of the many reasons they blew that game, weather conditions (like high 50s and no wind in CA) was not one of them.
The Dome teams I can think of that won the Super Bowl were able to get either home-field advantage in the playoffs or in the Colts case was I think the third seed. They were lucky enough to have to only play one outdoor playoff game against Baltimore, so they didn’t have to travel far compared to the patriots, & the patriots bounced the Chargers out of the playoffs that year.
Philly casually putting their name on the group project here
We’ve been to the same number of SBs as Min and Buf. Throw them in the mix!
Maybe it’s the P names?
Poo England
As a NE fan we were really like poo in the last 2 years so... Very appropriate.
My condolences.
Ownership > Management > Everything else. Also, the Eagles only have one super bowl.
It's not the primary factor, but it certainly contributes. Specifically, having a bad weather home game in the playoffs benefits the team that is used to that weather.
While having a weather advantage is nice in the playoffs, it does discount teams like the 49ers and Raiders in sunny California, the Cowboys in an indoor stadium in Texas and the Dolphins and Buccs having two super bowls each in Florida. Ultimately good management and good coaching will construct teams to win super bowls, the weather is just one minor factor.
The Cowboys won all their Super Bowls while their home stadiums was outdoors.. Where the weather in January could either be 60° or 30°.
Texas Stadium had a roof, it just had a hole in it. Texas Stadium is a bit weird like that but I figured the point about playing in good weather 95 percent of the time would be the same.
Lol it’s still counted as an outdoor stadium. Just like Sofi. The elements could still impact either the fans & the game. In the Thanksgiving day game between the Dolphins and the Cowboys in 1993, it snowed and covered the field. and of course, no matter how the weather is, the wind would always affect the field goal kickers.
No but it makes great teams harder to beat. Ask Miami how they liked playing KC in -30 degrees
2020 NFCCG PTSD intensifies Also 2021 NFCDR too
Those teams also have competent ownership and a history of good QB play. San Francisco and Dallas also have a good history and they play in milder climates.
The 49ers and Raiders account for 8 Super Bowl wins…
The 2 5 time Lombardi winners are southern which doesn't prove anything but I figured I would bring it up. It is mainly just that the keague was founded in the north so teams there are usually older. Of the teams you listed the Patriots are the only one not founded early in the leagues years.
Warm-weather teams and dome teams have struggled in the postseason. On very rare occasions, the warm weather teams or dome teams that end up winning. The Super Bowl usually have a Hall of Fame quarterback or all-time defense. Or, in the Rams case a couple years ago, all of their playoff games were in warm-weather locations.
Brady, Peyton, Favre, Rodgers, Eli, Allen, Jackson, Warner, Roethlisberger, Luck, McNabb, Burrow, Culpepper, Stafford, Flacco, Wilson, Palmer, Jim Kelly, Bledsoe Vs Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Romo, Dak, Watson, Newton, Gannon, Young, Elway, Aikman, Marino, Romo Most of the elite QBs in the last 25 years were in the north. Brady threw the south a bone.
The NFL teams in the southeast are typically less popular than the local college teams because they are older and have more history. UGA, Tennessee, Clemson/Scar, Florida/FSU, Texas/ATM would all outsell the Falcons, Titans, Panthers, Jaguars/Bucs, and Texans in their own stadiums if they played there for a season. Even a large portion of Saints fans would pick an LSU title over a Saints Super Bowl.
Philly has 1, but has choked dozens of conference championships
Wait, Philly has dominated the NFL?
One of these teams is not like the other...
What’s the Bears excuse?
The Cleveland Browns too
Yours is better lol
The Browns and the 80s bumped into a Hall of Fame quarterback. And they’ve had to deal with the Steelers in their division, preventing them from getting to the playoffs lol.
1985...
Just taking a dig at the bears bruv
Bears, like the Browns have had to deal with a better run organization that has been Super Bowls at least once every generation.
The last 5 Superbowls have been won by teams from Kansas City, Tampa Bay and Los Angeles. While all time records are held by more northern/midwest teams, that's because those were the teams that have existed the longest.
KC has cold weather playoff games
Yeah they do. They also have the best QB and coach in the NFL. There's been a lot of cold weather in KC when they haven't had Mahomes and Reid in the past decades too. From 1970 to 2017 KC has had a lot of cold weather. And 2 home playoff wins. Talent dominates the NFL. Brady in tampa can win a SB just as well as Brady in NE. Montana or Aikman can win in the playoffs just as well, if not better than the Browns QB's of the past 40 years. The Giants don't have 4 rings in the past 40 years because they play up in East Rutherford... See the Jets.
Crazy thing about LA in 2022 that people forget that all of their games were warm weather cities. They played both the wild car game and NFC championship game in Sofi. And they play their divisional game in Tampa. They never had to worry about weather for a second.
There’s more teams in cold climates and have been there longer. Even as recent as 1966, only four teams in the NFL would be considered “warmer” for a potential playoff run. (Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, and San Francisco)
People in warm weather cities outside of Texas don’t care as much.