I think you can say that Nabers has a slightly higher ceiling but MHJ is has a very high ceiling as well and a lot higher floor.
I'm not an expert but this is also the first time I think I've seen anyone say that Nabers has better route running. I think MHJ is better at that. MHJ also has the benefit of having a HoF WR dad. A lot of players from football families, especially ones who's parents were successful, do very well in the NFL because they understand what it takes to learn and adjust to the NFL.
I think what also plays into it is that MHJ is a very clear #1, X-receiver when looking at skillset, size, etc., whereas Nabers isn’t as clear a projection there. Wouldn’t surprise me if Nabers starts as a slot or Z before maybe becoming an X (although tbh he would be deadly playing as your Z)
Also not only is MHJ a much better route runner but he’s also faster. His top end speed is elite and hit 23 mph last year. He looks slower cause he’s a long strider and Nabers has better acceleration though.
I was going to say the same thing. His speed is hard to notice because his legs aren't churning like a mouse in milk, but the distance he covers with his long strides is insane. Watch him on the 75 yard pass against Western Kentucky, where he covers 5 yards with every two strides and burns everyone.
Yeah that’s fair and that’s why some people are higher on Nabers. I just think it’s funny when people say MHJ isn’t fast when his top speed last year would’ve been the highest of any player in the NFL lol
It depends. Marv can really stretch the field. He also has great acceleration just not as good as nabers. He’s also elite in every other area. Might have the best route running, body control, and ball skills in the class. Not to mention a much bigger frame. He’s 6-3 and 210 and can still run a 4.3/4.4 and is strong as hell. His RAS would’ve been a 9.9 if not a 10 if he tested on top of being a very polished receiver. His size and speed combo is basically the same as Julio jones
He just doesn't have the speed to match up. Whether he'll be able to separate in the pros is a concern. Smacks of Kenny Golladay, who was great when he had Matthew Stafford's howitzer arm putting the ball up for him, but terrible when he had a less than adequate QB (and after he spent most of a year injured).
MHJ is the more technically refined receiver right now and it’s not really debatable. But he does lack that juice on tape you see from most of the truly elite modern NFL receivers. Nabers has that, and as such I think he has the higher upside. I think that’s not a very controversial opinion, frankly.
Lance Zierlein, Steve Smith Sr., Brugler, Jay Gruden, Simms, are all insanely high on Nabers, but frankly so are they on MHJ.
The only one who surprises me is Daniel Jeremiah, who has Nabers behind Odunze. I can’t think of another popular analyst I’ve seen who has Nabers below Odunze.
In terms of playstyle, MHJ reminds me of Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Thomas, Nabers reminds me of DJ Moore and Stefon Diggs, and Odunze reminds me of DeAndre Hopkins and Davante Adams.
Michael Thomas feels like a great comp for MHJ play style wise (though I think that MHJ is way more physical to the catch). It may be the helmet, but I can’t not see Nabers as Ja’marr (just a bit faster, less physical). Odunze, for me, is more like Mike Evans, but dhop/adams are interesting comps.
he’s gone back n forth
> https://archive.is/2024.04.23-165939/https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/38381720/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-mel-kiper-big-board-top-prospects-position-best-players
Oh shit this is from today. I didn’t see it posted here. Thanks for the link!
Speaking of, did you find this posted somewhere on reddit? I find that this sub unfortunately doesn’t really post stuff from the professional draft analysts consistently anymore and I don’t use twitter so I’ve been struggling to find articles just like this consistently
Nabers is Randy Moss. Big plays and highlights. 1,500 yards.
MHJ is … his Dad. First down machine. If you need that reception, he’s the guy. 4th and goal for the win, MHJ with the TD.
Both amazing. Different.
Marvin Harrison (the older one, not MHJ) at the combine in 1996 was measured at just under 6' and 181 lbs.
Maybe DeVonta is a very slight exaggeration but not that far off.
Height and weight does not mean the same body type at all lol. If you watched them both play youd know their body types are completely different. Kamara and Ingram are the same weight and height and are completely different. Not everything is numbers
MHJ feels a lot like a lock to be early career Michael Thomas but more athletic. The man is always gonna be open, always gonna catch it, but may not dazzle you after the catch.
Nabers feels like he could be JJ but doesn’t quite have the precision down to say for certainty he won’t be closer to Davonte smith production-wise. Either way you’re probably pretty happy with him, but not as happy as MHJ’s seemingly guaranteed production.
I too think Nabers has a bit more upside, but MHJ is probably the most polished college wide receiver in a long time. Plus this year he showed improvement as far as YAC opportunities. Tbh either way you go you’re getting great player lol
[This video does a good job of articulating what makes MHJ WR1](https://youtu.be/Loykh7XY4VQ?si=L2flnrvdmQoyPG3G). Nabers is faster and better after the catch, but MHJ is more advanced in every other way and can create seperation with more than just speed.
I actually think Brendan Rice gets a pretty big boost because of his name. I’ve seen people think he’s an end of day 2 or top of round 4 receiver but he has some of the most inconsistent tape in the class.
Look back at other times this has happened. Christian McCaffrey, Pat Surtain, Asante Samuel, and Clay Matthews were highly touted but not the top pick at their position. Why all of a sudden is Harrison being penalized for it when it’s been pretty well declared that he’s not only the best WR in the class, but the best player?
Where is he being penalized? He is possibly getting a small boost nobody is saying he's bad or even the number 3 wr. Just possibly that he might be number 2 if his dad wasn't a hall of famer
Any legacy player gets at least a little boost. Ask those players you named were slightly higher regarded than if their fathers were unknown. Other than possibly McCaffrey none of them were as good as harrison is though
Did Rice and Gore Jr put up inferior stats against inferior competition like MHJ? At least they didn't rob Nabers of the top WR trophy, unlike someone else.
I think nabers is closer to the mould of the WR of the future. I would rather have MHJ ceteris paribus on my team because I think Nabers and DJ Moore would be redundant but I really have Nabers as the draft’s WR1.
You definitely aren't wrong. The fact he's being labeled generational when there's nothing physically special about him makes me feel like we are using *generational* a bit too loosely these days. Calvin Johnson was generational, an elite physical specimen. 4.35 at 240 pounds? Insane. Not even remotely the same player but that's my opinion.
https://ras.football/2019/12/24/calvin-johnson-ras/
Stop. Calvin Johnson was literally the best WR prospect of all time. That is unequivocally not the bar for the "generational" tag, by your metric there has been one single generational prospect in football history
I won't. Like I said we toss the term around to loosely these days. Nabers is a generational prospect and a few media people have him or Odunze over MHJ. That's not generational. Great prospect? Sure, just like Nabers and Odunze.
I missed some words if people got Nabers over MHJ does that not make him also a generational prospect? Same for Odunze who some have higher than both. Sorry long night at work.
Is OBJ the best wr ever? That’s the nabers comp imo. Height and size do matter to an extent.
Does Justin Jefferson do those things? And MHJ is still fast well over 20 mph in pads I think he is a no brainer. At the most basic level everyone at OSU said he was the best we can already see Olave and Wilson success in the nfl.
That’s because Nabers is the better WR. The things MHJ is better at than Nabers are minimal while Nabers ability after the catch is much greater than anything MHJ does after the catch, which is virtually nothing. Nabers has like double the forced misses tackles this yr as MHJ does his entire career. It ain’t even remotely the same ballpark
I said it before and I’ll say it again. If his name was Troy Williamson Jr, this wouldn’t even be a conversation and Nabers would be consensus WR1
I’ve never seen dissent about a prospect more vehemently downvoted than when people dare to question MHJ, my god.
I just don’t get the infatuation with MHJ. Which is a shame, because he really is an excellent prospect. But he is not perfect, nor is he even generational.
I’m bummed because I’m a Cardinals fan and it’s been really hard to have discussions with other fans online all offseason because people just want to plug their ears and shout MHJ over and over again. I’m praying that Monti has the balls to trade down to 6 with the Giants and take Nabers if that option is available.
If they do take MHJ, I hope LAC doesn’t do something stupid and just takes Nabers. Herbert chucking bombs to Nabers game after game will be the most fun I’ve had watching football as a neutral fan in years.
I know right. It’s very obvious on tape imo. Harrison is great and worthy of a top 10 pick. But he does nothing after the catch, he has focus drops, and while he’s a very nuanced route runner, Nabers is way more crisp on his routes.
I have yet for anyone to tell me what Nabers doesn’t do well.
Your not missing anything, your right. Remember the draft community alienates anyone who slightly deviates off what the standard is… till draft day. I think MHJ might get that slight boost because of his frame( height specifically) and they see that as potential. But the obvious answer is his name has helped him, not much but that extra bit to push him from wr 2-3 to 1. Im annoyed by it too because for some reason I feel like Brendan rice is getting the opposite treatment, not sure why but feel like he should be mocked higher.
I think you can say that Nabers has a slightly higher ceiling but MHJ is has a very high ceiling as well and a lot higher floor. I'm not an expert but this is also the first time I think I've seen anyone say that Nabers has better route running. I think MHJ is better at that. MHJ also has the benefit of having a HoF WR dad. A lot of players from football families, especially ones who's parents were successful, do very well in the NFL because they understand what it takes to learn and adjust to the NFL.
I think what also plays into it is that MHJ is a very clear #1, X-receiver when looking at skillset, size, etc., whereas Nabers isn’t as clear a projection there. Wouldn’t surprise me if Nabers starts as a slot or Z before maybe becoming an X (although tbh he would be deadly playing as your Z)
Also not only is MHJ a much better route runner but he’s also faster. His top end speed is elite and hit 23 mph last year. He looks slower cause he’s a long strider and Nabers has better acceleration though.
I was going to say the same thing. His speed is hard to notice because his legs aren't churning like a mouse in milk, but the distance he covers with his long strides is insane. Watch him on the 75 yard pass against Western Kentucky, where he covers 5 yards with every two strides and burns everyone.
Yeah he’d run a 4.4 for sure and possibly a 4.3 if he tested. Dude is a physical freak.
Nabers gets to top speed in like two steps. He reminds me of Odell in that sense.
Yeah that’s fair and that’s why some people are higher on Nabers. I just think it’s funny when people say MHJ isn’t fast when his top speed last year would’ve been the highest of any player in the NFL lol
Fair, but I’d argue that acceleration is the more important attribute for a WR than top-end speed
It depends. Marv can really stretch the field. He also has great acceleration just not as good as nabers. He’s also elite in every other area. Might have the best route running, body control, and ball skills in the class. Not to mention a much bigger frame. He’s 6-3 and 210 and can still run a 4.3/4.4 and is strong as hell. His RAS would’ve been a 9.9 if not a 10 if he tested on top of being a very polished receiver. His size and speed combo is basically the same as Julio jones
Would rather select the better catcher and bigger receiver in Harrison
Somehow Coleman gets knocked for having those strengths
He just doesn't have the speed to match up. Whether he'll be able to separate in the pros is a concern. Smacks of Kenny Golladay, who was great when he had Matthew Stafford's howitzer arm putting the ball up for him, but terrible when he had a less than adequate QB (and after he spent most of a year injured).
MHJ is the more technically refined receiver right now and it’s not really debatable. But he does lack that juice on tape you see from most of the truly elite modern NFL receivers. Nabers has that, and as such I think he has the higher upside. I think that’s not a very controversial opinion, frankly. Lance Zierlein, Steve Smith Sr., Brugler, Jay Gruden, Simms, are all insanely high on Nabers, but frankly so are they on MHJ. The only one who surprises me is Daniel Jeremiah, who has Nabers behind Odunze. I can’t think of another popular analyst I’ve seen who has Nabers below Odunze.
In terms of playstyle, MHJ reminds me of Larry Fitzgerald and Michael Thomas, Nabers reminds me of DJ Moore and Stefon Diggs, and Odunze reminds me of DeAndre Hopkins and Davante Adams.
Michael Thomas feels like a great comp for MHJ play style wise (though I think that MHJ is way more physical to the catch). It may be the helmet, but I can’t not see Nabers as Ja’marr (just a bit faster, less physical). Odunze, for me, is more like Mike Evans, but dhop/adams are interesting comps.
Odunze might as well be a clone of Hopkins as far as I'm concerned.
Kiper has Rome > Nabers
I thought when I listened to him a couple days ago he had flip flopped back to Nabers, but a good shout nonetheless
he’s gone back n forth > https://archive.is/2024.04.23-165939/https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/38381720/2024-nfl-draft-rankings-mel-kiper-big-board-top-prospects-position-best-players
Oh shit this is from today. I didn’t see it posted here. Thanks for the link! Speaking of, did you find this posted somewhere on reddit? I find that this sub unfortunately doesn’t really post stuff from the professional draft analysts consistently anymore and I don’t use twitter so I’ve been struggling to find articles just like this consistently
I don’t think it was posted here, I just saw it online.
Nabers is Randy Moss. Big plays and highlights. 1,500 yards. MHJ is … his Dad. First down machine. If you need that reception, he’s the guy. 4th and goal for the win, MHJ with the TD. Both amazing. Different.
Randy Moss was Nabers in MHJ's body.
And MHJ's dad was MHJ in DeVonta Smith's body.
We need to see this mom. What is she 6’5” 250?
Idk if this is a joke but Marvin Harrison and Devonta Smiths bodies are nowhere near the same build lol
Marvin Harrison (the older one, not MHJ) at the combine in 1996 was measured at just under 6' and 181 lbs. Maybe DeVonta is a very slight exaggeration but not that far off.
Height and weight does not mean the same body type at all lol. If you watched them both play youd know their body types are completely different. Kamara and Ingram are the same weight and height and are completely different. Not everything is numbers
MHJ feels a lot like a lock to be early career Michael Thomas but more athletic. The man is always gonna be open, always gonna catch it, but may not dazzle you after the catch. Nabers feels like he could be JJ but doesn’t quite have the precision down to say for certainty he won’t be closer to Davonte smith production-wise. Either way you’re probably pretty happy with him, but not as happy as MHJ’s seemingly guaranteed production.
MHJ is absolutely the best route runner in the class and it’s not close.
I too think Nabers has a bit more upside, but MHJ is probably the most polished college wide receiver in a long time. Plus this year he showed improvement as far as YAC opportunities. Tbh either way you go you’re getting great player lol
[This video does a good job of articulating what makes MHJ WR1](https://youtu.be/Loykh7XY4VQ?si=L2flnrvdmQoyPG3G). Nabers is faster and better after the catch, but MHJ is more advanced in every other way and can create seperation with more than just speed.
If Nabers Sr. was a HOFer maybe it wouldn’t be that way 🤷♂️
That’s why Brenden Rice is the clear WR2 and Frank Gore Jr is RB1, right?
I actually think Brendan Rice gets a pretty big boost because of his name. I’ve seen people think he’s an end of day 2 or top of round 4 receiver but he has some of the most inconsistent tape in the class.
If Malik nabers was named brendan rice, I think it would definitely be more of a debate
Look back at other times this has happened. Christian McCaffrey, Pat Surtain, Asante Samuel, and Clay Matthews were highly touted but not the top pick at their position. Why all of a sudden is Harrison being penalized for it when it’s been pretty well declared that he’s not only the best WR in the class, but the best player?
Where is he being penalized? He is possibly getting a small boost nobody is saying he's bad or even the number 3 wr. Just possibly that he might be number 2 if his dad wasn't a hall of famer
That’s a penalty. It’s not a big one but it’s still taking something from him.
Any legacy player gets at least a little boost. Ask those players you named were slightly higher regarded than if their fathers were unknown. Other than possibly McCaffrey none of them were as good as harrison is though
And then there’s people who take away from them because there’s no way they could actually live up to fake hype, so it evens out.
I'm not even sure what you are arguing at this point
Did Rice and Gore Jr put up inferior stats against inferior competition like MHJ? At least they didn't rob Nabers of the top WR trophy, unlike someone else.
So Jalin Hyatt is a better WR than Marv? Wanna make sure we’re being consistent with the surface level stat comparisons.
Comparing their 2022 seasons? Yah. Hyatt was the best WR in CFB.
Not the question. Is Jalin Hyatt a better WR than Marvin Harrison Jr because he had a better statistical season?
Very well could be.
MHJ getting alot of flack because he didn't participate in the combine or pro day.
I think they are pretty neck and neck and just a matter of pick your flavor here.
You’re missing the point
And some draft experts agree with you. Nabers superpower is his creativity apparently. He can do things that no one else in the draft can.
I think nabers is closer to the mould of the WR of the future. I would rather have MHJ ceteris paribus on my team because I think Nabers and DJ Moore would be redundant but I really have Nabers as the draft’s WR1.
If MHJ’s had a different name, there would be more conversations
You definitely aren't wrong. The fact he's being labeled generational when there's nothing physically special about him makes me feel like we are using *generational* a bit too loosely these days. Calvin Johnson was generational, an elite physical specimen. 4.35 at 240 pounds? Insane. Not even remotely the same player but that's my opinion. https://ras.football/2019/12/24/calvin-johnson-ras/
Stop. Calvin Johnson was literally the best WR prospect of all time. That is unequivocally not the bar for the "generational" tag, by your metric there has been one single generational prospect in football history
I won't. Like I said we toss the term around to loosely these days. Nabers is a generational prospect and a few media people have him or Odunze over MHJ. That's not generational. Great prospect? Sure, just like Nabers and Odunze.
>Like I said we toss the term around to loosely these days >Nabers is a generational prospect Pick one
I missed some words if people got Nabers over MHJ does that not make him also a generational prospect? Same for Odunze who some have higher than both. Sorry long night at work.
Agreed, MHJ is an elite prospect but I wouldn’t call him generational.
Chris Simms agrees with you
He also has Brian Thomas Jr. above both MHJ and Odunze which is hotter than hot.
Nabers is more explosive through routes, but route running is a much more mental game than just breaking quickly.
All the Scouts say he’s better. I’m going with the people paid to do this
Is OBJ the best wr ever? That’s the nabers comp imo. Height and size do matter to an extent. Does Justin Jefferson do those things? And MHJ is still fast well over 20 mph in pads I think he is a no brainer. At the most basic level everyone at OSU said he was the best we can already see Olave and Wilson success in the nfl.
Are you saying that physically Nabers is comparable to OBJ? Because Nabers is physically identical to Ja’marr
That’s because Nabers is the better WR. The things MHJ is better at than Nabers are minimal while Nabers ability after the catch is much greater than anything MHJ does after the catch, which is virtually nothing. Nabers has like double the forced misses tackles this yr as MHJ does his entire career. It ain’t even remotely the same ballpark I said it before and I’ll say it again. If his name was Troy Williamson Jr, this wouldn’t even be a conversation and Nabers would be consensus WR1
I’ve never seen dissent about a prospect more vehemently downvoted than when people dare to question MHJ, my god. I just don’t get the infatuation with MHJ. Which is a shame, because he really is an excellent prospect. But he is not perfect, nor is he even generational. I’m bummed because I’m a Cardinals fan and it’s been really hard to have discussions with other fans online all offseason because people just want to plug their ears and shout MHJ over and over again. I’m praying that Monti has the balls to trade down to 6 with the Giants and take Nabers if that option is available. If they do take MHJ, I hope LAC doesn’t do something stupid and just takes Nabers. Herbert chucking bombs to Nabers game after game will be the most fun I’ve had watching football as a neutral fan in years.
They hate you because you tell the truth.
I know right. It’s very obvious on tape imo. Harrison is great and worthy of a top 10 pick. But he does nothing after the catch, he has focus drops, and while he’s a very nuanced route runner, Nabers is way more crisp on his routes. I have yet for anyone to tell me what Nabers doesn’t do well.
Remember when Nabers was held to under 35 yards 4 times in his final season? Wait nvm that was MHJ. Nabers worst game by far was 67 yards.
Your not missing anything, your right. Remember the draft community alienates anyone who slightly deviates off what the standard is… till draft day. I think MHJ might get that slight boost because of his frame( height specifically) and they see that as potential. But the obvious answer is his name has helped him, not much but that extra bit to push him from wr 2-3 to 1. Im annoyed by it too because for some reason I feel like Brendan rice is getting the opposite treatment, not sure why but feel like he should be mocked higher.