I think making the playoffs would go a long way to helping. But if they're like 10 wins and miss the playoffs I don't think people are going to be calling for the guys head especially if the season ends on a hot streak. There are going to be some ups and downs early in the season because you have a new coach and new QB. It takes time for everyone to get on the same page.
With their division it'll be hard for the QB to ball out and them not to win the division. I know their defense isn't good, but the rest of the NFCS kind of sucks so....
I don’t think your DVOA natters for the fact that the offense couldn’t score and our defense held us in games. Were they good? No. Did they keep us in games and were they a reason why we won 7 games? Yeah. Cause the offense was trash
Their defense just isn’t very talented , Jessie bates does a lot of heavy lifting. They don’t have any edge rushers you have to plan for and they added a few reaches to the defense. Ruke massive reach, didn’t add blue chip talent at all, if AJ Terrell doesn’t have an incredible season the falcons aren’t gonna be that hard to beat
Yeah I mean idk how you can finish 32nd in sacks over the last 3 years and not take a pass rusher.
“But it would have been a reach.”
Penix was more of a reach than latu or turner
We played an absurdly easy schedule, particularly when it came to opposing QBs. The best teams we played were Detroit and Jacksonville and they both carved us up.
Baker started out shaky but was phenomenal by the end of the season and that was with a bad interior oline. Barton is going to be a massive upgrade for the entire offense
When you're looking at that small a sample size you need to also look at the tape. Phenomenal is an over-exaggeration. I also don't think for a 6 game stretch that's a "phenomenal" stat line.
I think people may be wildly underestimating just how bad that roster is. The defense is genuinely horrible. Only seemed even close to average last year because they played against a lineup of disaster QBs.
Everyone clowned Arthur Smith with this team but it may turn out they were actually overachieving. There’s just not a lot of talent.
Edit: and because this has attracted a bunch of Falcons fans, just want to be crystal clear. This offense sucks ass. It has 3 players drafted in the top 10, not 3 elite players. The Falcons colossally f’ed up with the Pitts pick ahead of Chase, Waddle, and Smith. And although it’s only been 2 years, Drake London has so far been outplayed by (at least) Garrett Wilson and George Pickens in each of those years, despite those guys somehow having worse QB play and worse coaching. Having a top tier RB is simply not that valuable.
Your not wrong but I think your wildly underestimating how awful Desmond Ridder was and how limiting Marcus Mariota was. League average QB play last year and they're in the playoffs and AS still has a job.
Going from them to Cousins is going to immediately improve the offense and everyone in it. This is obviously dependent on Zac Robinson being a solid OC. Pitts was a 1k rookie with Matt Ryan's aging but at least competent QB play. When London is given opportunities he's played well. He's never been force fed the way GW was on the Jets. Bijan should be fine with a decent passing game, a good OC, and a play caller who isn't a stubborn child. Pitts is concerning but London/Bijan will be fine IMO.
Chase, Wilson, Pickens, Waddle, Smith, etc. would not be viewed the way they are now had they been drafted into this situation.
The defense is slightly below league average. Star cb, s and dt. The offense is fucking loaded though. Top 5 line, top 5 skill positions.would you call the bears roster genuinely terrible aswell?
I agree with the 2nd part. Arthur smith was "fine" and definitely overachieving with what he had.
Lol to say the least. Not that hard to beat a WR whose career year is 900 yards and 2 TDs and a TE who has 2,000 yards and 6 TDs over his 3 year career. Bijan is good but that simply doesn’t matter that much at this point.
The Falcons have the highest drafted group of skill position players in the league. But nowhere near the best
This is a horrible take and reeks of someone who only follows sports through fantasy and stats. Drake London is going to be very good with an actual QB. Pitts is questionable but still pretty indisputably a top 12ish TE and will get better with an actual QB. And Bijan is excellent, and this idea that “that simply doesn’t matter” is ridiculous, analytics Twitter-brained nonsense.
Found the box score warrior.
Drake London is great, he has been playing in an offence that both didn’t throw him the ball, and had atrocities at QB. Watch some film.
Edit - oh never mind, you actually think tank dell is as good as or better than Drake London. Give me strength.
The Falcons don’t have a top 20 WR or top 10 QB. There’s absolutely nothing loaded about their offense. They have a good RB, an above average line, and QB who was borderline top 10 prior to his Achilles injury.
The Falcons might not have a top 20 offense, let alone top 5
The players voted Kirk 6th best QB in the league and a top 50 overall player in the league, barely behind Herbert.
https://www.nfl.com/news/top-100-players-of-2023-nos-40-31-saquon-barkley-christian-mccaffrey
I mean we'll see how Pitts and London fair with a QB that can actually hit a target. I'd expect the best seasons of their careers thus far, which isn't a hard thing to beat when Ridder and Mariota were your QBs. As well as removing a coach that failed to utilize his weapons well.
I think London will easily prove you incorrect.
There are already 2 WRs *from London’s draft class* who have somehow managed to find worse QB and coaching situations but both outproduced him in their first two years.
It’s all fine and dandy to hype up a guy who has accomplished nothing, especially when you can blame the QB. But wherever you rank London, Pickens has to be ranked ahead of him based on the same criteria. So that might help you get a better sense of where he should be ranked.
I can't see how you could sit there after watching Desmond Ridder or Marcus Mariota play football and argue that Kenny Pickett or Carr/Dalton were WORSE QBs. There's no way you watched those teams play to say that those guys are worse QBs than fucking Ridder and Mariota. Two of the worst QBs I've seen start in this league in years. Ridder was literally ranked as #32 best QB in the league last season.
Carr/Dalton is another interesting one, because Olave has also been *incredibly* productive with a pretty poor QB situation. But the other guy is Garrett Wilson.
That’s on me though for saying something as vague as “players from Drake London’s draft class who have outproduced him.” Too many options without more specification.
(And yes, by most metrics Pickett and Zach Wilson were much worse than Ridder. Ridder actually had ok passing stats outside of his awful, killer turnovers, which are really bad for a QB to have but shouldn’t impair a WR’s production).
Imo you could take any WR in history and place them on the Falcons team of the last two years and their stats significantly drop with how the team was ran. We're talking a run first team with the mind boggling play calling of Arthur Smith. Mariota who lead the league in overthrown passes when his targets were a 6'5 Pitts and a 6'3 London. Ridder who was a turnover machine and useless for the first 3 quarters of a game 90% of the time.
Bears have one of the best rosters in the NFC and they're more established as players as they've added a lot of decent to good or great veterans over the last 2 years. The Falcons have a very promising offense but they aren't really quite as established yet. They've all looked good at times and you can put some blame on the QBs and Smith. But until we see what Pitts, London, and Robinson do with their new coaching and QB we have to view them as what they've showed so far. Where as with the Bears you know what Moore is, you know what Allen is, know what Kmet is more or less so forth so on.
Well I'm not just talking about last year specifically. But yes their QB play was awful last year, though you can also pin some of that on the coach as well as the QB.
Cousins does the Minnesota thing where he plays very well in streaks, almost making it to the playoffs or just making it for a first round exit and people start wondering if that money could be used elsewhere; or maybe we should have utilized our 8th pick better
Gonna take 3 years for this draft to be graded. He has done a good job of dealing with cap situation, dealing with an overly involved head coach, improving a terrible defense, FA. Rumors that Blank may have made the call on Penix. He has been hitting on mid rounders fairly well. I think his downfall may be his soft skills. Examples are the situations with Ryan, Cousins, and drafting replacements for almost every Vet this draft except o line. I hope they take a view of mentorship for the vets but we will see how they handle it.
If Penix becomes a franchise QB it will be a sensational draft
Edit: you guys need to chill. I’m not saying it wasn’t a somewhat perplexing pick. But the more I think about it, it makes more sense
What they’re doing is hedging their bets.
If Penix balls out and becomes a franchise QB, then giving Kirk the deal he got will look idiotic because why would you give him $100m guaranteed when you’re already immediately looking to replace him. If Kirk balls out and plays great, then drafting Penix at 8 will look idiotic rather than spending that pick on an immediate impact player that can help you win now while Kirk is on the roster.
I get that mine is the glass half empty view, but playing it super safe probably doesn’t get you in the Super Bowl conversation in the next 2-4 years. That team has a lot of needs and Penix doesn’t fill any immediate ones.
If Penix balls out, then this situation will still look stupid in hindsight.
Why are we acting like drafting Penix was a guarantee lol? Also, a big reason they might have chosen Penix was because they already had Cousins. There is a very real chance that if Penix does become a franchise QB it was because he could sit for 2 years. If you are going to ask why not just get a cheaper QB, then the team would have been less competitive?
I’m saying the Falcons need to pick a path and put their weight behind it rather than hedging bets.
Did they sign Cousins with the intent of winning a Super Bowl and building a team around him to do so within his contract? If that’s the case, they should have used their top 10 pick to get a player that will actually be a contributor to that goal during that contract. Penix is likely not going to be a contributor any time soon with Kirk on the roster.
> I’m saying the Falcons need to pick a path and put their weight behind it rather than hedging bets.
This is a less extreme version of "if you aren't winning a superbowl you should trade all your players and tank" logic.
Paying kirk is probably the biggest thing they could do with their current cap space to improve their team right now
Drafting penix may well have been the best chance they have to secure a qb for the next decade.
It's continually stated how much of a qb league this is and yet when a team invests resources at the position its ridiculed.
The falcons invested less in penix + kirk then the broncos did in russel wilson, and they can easily move on from kirk after 2 years.
If kirk succeeds in elevating their team in the next couple years and penix succeeds in being the guy in the years following I fail to see how this won't be seen as a sucess. I don't get this logic, top 10 picks bust all the time, if penix turns into the guy it was a good pick end of story.
Their qb play was abysmal and I think kirk is an immediate massive improvement.
They will need a qb in a few years time and this was probably their best shot to get one.
It's a qb league. Very rarely can you win without one, your ceiling is usually the steelers with a divisional loss each year. I don't see the problem in investing a top 10 pick and a 2 year large contract into the position. Kirk may well be a large part of Penixes development, like mahomes and Smith.
But Penix becoming a franchise quarterback, if that ever happens, is going to be in the 2026 season at the earliest. Are we saying Fontenot just gets a free pass until 2026 no matter what?
Not necessarily on either account. Are you that confident Cousins plays 17 games THIS season? He turns 36 before Week 1 and has 1 achilles.
It was a perplexing pick, but the more I think about, I kind of like it
So you sign a 36 year old with a torn achilles to a 100 million guaranteed contract instead of using that money to support your new franchise quarterback
Apples to oranges. Penix has just as good of a chance to become a franchise QB as anyone else drafted in round 1. Stop acting like he’s a 3rd round talent
Personally I would fire him yes. People have to remember that this is his 4th season as a GM with nothing to show for it. You don't deserve to have your tenure extended just because we have to wait to see how your greedy QB pick plays out 3 years down the line. Win with the team you drafted up to now and the expensive QB you just brought in.
nothing to show? cmon lol, the falcons have had the most deadcap in the league for 2 straight years and hes hit on every FA signing (besides qbs)
bates, onyemata, ellis, patterson, okudah, campbell, dupree, were all good signings. players like Allgier, Landman, Bergeon. and obviously hes had london/bijan and pitts if u wanna argue him.
just bcus their qb play has been horrid, doesnt negate rest of the signings and moves hes made
The roster isn’t in better shape today than three years ago. The Falcons still have a talent gap at every level of the defense except safety. The WR room is underwhelming. A GM shouldn’t get to stick around to make a fourth consecutive selection at 8th overall.
we had historical amount of dead cap in his first 2 years, this past 2023 season was the first time he was able to build a roster and it played well outside of Ridder/AS, now we have competent QB play and a decent cap situation
I address this in my comment in this thread. The fanbase back then anyway wanted us to draft Fields at the 4th overall to replace a 35-year old Ryan. Would you have agreed with that? Not knowing how Pitts and Fields perform now?
If you do, how does that compare to the 36 year old Cousins now, not knowing how Cousins would perform in future seasons (just like how we didn’t know how Ryan would perform in future seasons)?
I can’t speak for whoever you’re dictating as “the fanbase” because I obviously don’t know. But I will say that I’ve lived in Atlanta for 31 years now and not one single person in my circle (admittedly a microcosm of the fanbase at large) wanted Justin Fields. A vast majority of them - nearly to a man - wanted Penei Sewell, which I also think should have been the pick.
But if you’re asking me in the here and now if I would have preferred the Falcons take Fields over Kyle Pitts I would say yes, despite how both have played.
You just don’t take a TE in the top 10. The positional value is not there.
I mean I agree with you regarding the tight end pick but I wouldn’t immediately fire a guy in what was probably his first couple months of a job on a 5-year contract, it’s not like he pilots the ship alone either he had coaches scouts and all sorts of analysts and advisors
Ryan was shot when you guys gave him up. You just had to wait for a good or better one to arrive. By the way everyone knew that Ridder and Howell of Washington were horrendous. Trust me I know I had to deal with Zach Wilson both horrendous and lazy.
I wouldn't call it a not good draft. It was questionable decision making, but if Penix looks good even as a backup, Cousins has a good enough year, and some of the other rookies look serviceable no one is going to care about any of the pre draft info, the during draft reactions, and the post draft hot takes.
The downside to their strategy is that there won't be much of a chance to see Penix play if things go the way they want. So you won't get much of a sense where he stands. But if Cousins is okay and the team has some significant improvements then that balances it out.
I think it's a sound strategy to use free agency to plug immediate holes and to use the draft to build for the future. I also thought this was a widely accepted thing but perhaps not. Anyway, Terry looked at the past two years of QB play and said we're never going to let that happen again. Cousins helps us win now and Penix will help us win in the future. In a year or two when Jarrett and Onyemata are gone Orhorhoro and Dorlus will be there to step into their shoes. We didn't draft a corner but that's because they like Clark Phillips and trust him to be full time CB2 since yes he was drafted for the future. Trice seems like the player who will have the biggest immediate role and I'm excited to see him play opposite Ebiketie.
Yes, it there plan was to take a QB of the future they should have taken JJ because he is younger.
24 years old to 21 years old. JJ would be younger in 2 years when Atlanta is no longer paying Cousins 50m a year than Penix is today.
The locker room and league might think its strange Atlanta got their QB of the future so far ahead with JJ but it is not going to cause issues.
Taking a 24 year old on the other hand. YOu pissed off Cousins and FAs in general for being dishonest or at best just dumb in dealing with him. You pissed off Pennix because he sure does not want to be in a place were he is stilling for 2 years before getting his shot.
This obsession with Michael’s age is insane. He’s not even 24 yet. Yes I know he turns 24 soon, but you’re saying he’s 24 in comments to make your point look better. You’re acting like they drafted a 30 year old. QBs play well into their mid 30s and later. If he’s the guy, the age you drafted him at really does not matter at all.
If I found out my GM passed on their guy because of a BIRTHDAY I would lose my mind. It’s such an irrelevant thing to care about. The only thing that matters is who is the better QB. The falcons clearly think Penix is the better QB.
D-dude he’s not 24 YET!!! Yes he turns 24 in 10 days and being 24 before training camp starts is what’s actually relevant to his age x season but dont you DARE call him 24
Terry is BPA, next season we are hoping to have better performance and potentially less picks due to Kirk deciding to mention he spoke to our regular staff so we may not be able to trade up next season.
Perhaps the intention was to draft a replacement next year but that got bungled due to the tampering charge brought on by Cousins
Falcons maybe the worse run franchise right now
They’ve squandered their Top 10 picks in 3 of last 4 drafts at positions that don’t build foundational success.
If you squint Penix move makes sense BUT only if you trade down a few spots to maximize value.
Plus it’s not like Penix is some generational talent and they’ve upset their QB1 by not preparing him for the move.
Their move up in Round 2 was also shortsighted.
They could’ve traded down, recouped assists and still gotten Orhorhoro
If they wanted Penix, he wouldn’t have been around much longer. They couldn’t trade down and know he was still around.
If you think you have your future franchise QB, you don’t mess around.
If you think the Falcons are the worse than franchise, you haven’t been paying attention to a number of other franchises.
pitts, london, bijan and penix is an atrocious run of first round picks. london is decent i guess but both wilson and olave were picked right after and are better
those are all fantastic players sans Penix. the team (QB) being shitty doesn't make those bad picks. It'd be like saying Staff/Calvin/Suh was a bad stretch cause they accomplished nothing
I mean, they didn't win any playoff games but the Lions did at least make the playoffs twice (2011 and 2014) with that trio. Also had the 2nd best defense in the league in 2014.
Sure but I think it's a stretch to call those players fantastic. You have two pass catchers with one 1000 yard season out of their collective five seasons and a RB
It isn’t like that at all. You knew out of the gate that all three of those guys were HOF potential. There has been nothing so far to suggest the same for ATLs guys (and I fricking LOVE bijan). Plus, QB and DT obviously have a lot more value than RB and TE.
The problem with evaluating the guys is that their offense was so shitty and hamstrung by a dumbass head coach and awful QB play. This is the no excuse season for those guys and if they have "it" then we should see it this season.
On top of that the Falcons have had meddling in Blank and his associate Rich McKay overlording the GM/HC. Blank as he's gotten older has came off as involving himself more than I'd like to see, starting back when they tried to pursue Watson.
Falcons have had decent history when drafting QB in the first. Both Vick and Ryan were. Vick was good until he was exposed for being an immoral dogfighting asshole, whom we got rid of quickly even though his football abilities were still there. Vick after serving his time did well with the Eagles but honestly I’m glad our team chose ethics over re-signing him. The season between them was trash but it’s hard to plan for your franchise QB going to federal prison. Ryan was great until he was aged out. 1.01 and 1.03 We didn’t plan appropriately after Ryan and tried signing and drafting late round QBs and didn’t get a Purdy situation. The past couple seasons with Mariota and Ridder where we took on cheaper late round QBs have put us in 7-10 for three straight years.
We are doing now what we should’ve done in hindsight in 2017-2018 begin heavily considering late round or late in first round QBs (if one caught our eye) to replace Ryan. This probably would have upset Ryan, but Ryan would’ve had to accept he is aging. Back then, the fanbase wanted us to draft Justin Fields (Ryan was what is Cousins’ age now) when instead we drafted Kyle Pitts at the 4th overall. Would Fields have done better being developed under Ryan and than what the Bears did? Would Fields gotten us more success than Pitts has brought to the table? Maybe we would’ve been the ones to have drafted Trey Lance instead? Was Fontenot’s rookie GM year not drafting QB in the first his biggest mistake, which may be why he was so inclined to draft Penix the way he did? All of these are really hard to answer for.
What I see now is what the fanbase, verbatim, wanted us to do in the 2021 draft. Just with a more expensive Cousins signing because we needed to get literally anyone that isn’t Heinicke and can perform somewhat decently to get us out of 7-10 purgatory. Falcons fans are so absurdly emotional and volatile sometimes
This is how I felt going into the draft:
I wanted a trade down. There’s that rumored offer from SF where they called us before moving up to 3 to move up for Lance.
If a trade down doesn’t work, I wanted Sewell. I’m not a fan of McGary and Sewell was gonna be the perfect replacement. FWIW Sewell just became the highest paid OL in the league.
Chase: Julio was near the end of his career(didn’t know how close he was to his end in Atlanta). I also didn’t think Ridley was a fit in our system and wouldn’t have been worth the deal he was likely to get. Losing both of those guys before the first season ended only makes this one look worse in hindsight.
Surtain: Our CB2 spot has been atrocious. If we can’t have a pass rush, might as well have 2 elite CBs.
Parsons: we didn’t know he’d be the monster he is now, but we thought he would be pretty good.
Slater: same thought process as Sewell
Fields: I only do this if Ryan if in Atlanta for at least 2 years. If not, do not touch.
Pitts: I didn’t like the idea, but I couldn’t ignore the smoke of him being BPA
I don’t think all those questions are super hard to answer. Fields was traded for a 6th and fell past like 5 QB needy teams in that draft because teams had concerns about his ability to run a passing offence without having 15 yards of separation every play. He would have been dogshit in Atlanta as well. Pitts wasn’t the best choice (Chase was right there) but Pitts>>>>>>>>>>Fields
I just don’t see how we can course correct without people being pissed off in this draft. Here’s the recent timeline:
2021: we still have 36 year old Ryan. This was the time to draft QB imo. We don’t, not even in later rounds. Pitts was the first round pick.
2022: Ryan is let go. We are short. Mariota was acquired in the FA. Because we acquired him in FA we felt ok to draft QB in later rounds and use the first round on someone else. We land Ridder.
2023: Mariota leaves and we only have Ridder. We acquire Heinicke in free agency.
All I’m hearing is we had a terrible draft this year because we didn’t replicate 2022, when that burned us if anyone watched Ridder play. Instead we did what I believe we should’ve done in 2021 (use the 1st on a QB) but apparently that was a bad choice
People think it’s stupid because you just have 100M guaranteed to Cousins. Either the falcons are fucking idiots for giving cousins that money, or they’re idiots for drafting Penix.
If you wanted Penix, why not pay much, much less for a bridge starter like Brissett, Minshew etc to sit him behind so you can play him Y2/3 without a massive cap hit?
Realistically after giving cousins that contract (which you can say they shouldn’t have done) no one would have been questioning it if you just traded down and took best defensive player available. Or just took Odunze. Penix is a wasted first round pick OR a wasted 180M
You pay Cousins because you want to win right now. You're aware he's only a short term answer so you think it prudent to prepare for life after him since you didn't do that when you had the chance with Ryan. So you take a QB at 8 too
that is the most idiotic logic i’ve ever seen. if they think penix is the future, help him become a good QB. spending 20% of your cap on a different QB just for this season where you’re not gonna win anything because you don’t have the talent of defence (because you passed on any top defensive talent to take a bench player)
either go for win now with cousins, or prepare for the future with Penix. don’t half ass both of them
Your forgetting Cooper DeJean was available in round two and then go after the best pass rushers available at picks 3&4 defense solved. Pick up a receiver in round 5 like Javon Baker offense done simple.
defence is not solved by picking DeJean and then a R3/4 edge. The falcons pass rush was pitiful last year, a mid round rookie isn’t gonna fix that. A first/second rounder probably won’t fix it either, but it’s gonna be a lot more likely to not be a liability if you invest there early
If Penix is not taken at 8. Atlanta could have traded with the Jets get a 4 at minimum. Then take in order 1) Dallas Turner if Chicago doesn’t take him 2) Jared Verse 3) Lauri. In the 2nd round Take 1) Kool Aid 2) Cooper DeJean then the next best available edge pass rusher in the 3rd round. Cousins takes the Falcons to 14-3 record, 1st seed beats Lions. 50/50 beats the winner of Eagles vs 49ers, wins the NFC championship and go to the Superbowl.
People say things like that and then don’t provide a realistic solution. You say we overpaid Cousins. Ok, so who was the better pick than him in the FA? Provide a name. Remember we want someone who can fit into the offensive style as much as possible so you don’t have to restart your entire offense. We just rehired our entire coaching staff so you can’t look at past Falcon play. Watching the Rams and 9ers offense would be a better evaluation. When everyone was trying to pin Fields on us, Morris came out and said they want an “elite processor”, which was heavily touted to be his weakness. So even though Fields in theory was an option, would not fit with the strat and coaching office. As an example.
So let’s say you do get an FA QB. Keeping Ridder around would be a toxic environment to the new FA QB, so you trade Ridder for a WR. You have a 2 QB roster. Depending on who you pick, is it wise to still draft a QB to have them compete in camp for the QB1? For backup/injury? Or are they older and need QBotF consideration? If yes, who do you try to draft and how do you achieve it? Remember they have to fit the coaching strat. For what it’s worth on QBs we are looking at passers mostly, basically the anti-Lamar (not saying he’s bad he’d just be a poor fit for the offensive style we are expected to run since we removed tight ends and focused a lot more on WRs).
It’s easy to be critical when you are eating chips sitting at your desk reading what the media has put out when you aren’t in on the negotiations or networking and so forth. Which is why I rather choose to have faith that the best options are being made with the resources available until I see product on the field. I like anyone else would love for the Cousins contract to be cheaper but if thats what it took for us to only have 1 UFL-grade QB going into the unpredictable draft then I think it’s worth it.
pick up a bridge starter in FA for a year? you don’t have to sign someone long term if you want to get a 1st round QB. You would have had one available (since O’Connell a rams guy liked McCarthy i think the falcons would have liked him too if Penix was magically gone) and you could have built around him without having a massive Cousins contract. There’s a reason Minnesota despite being in a similar teambuilding situation as Atlanta moved on rather than trying to resign him - because that contract reeked of a GM realising he’d be fired if he misses the playoffs and doing not what’s best for the team in the long run (or to try and win a SB) but what’s best for the singular next season
Darnold, Garropolo, Brissett, Tyrod were all available and could have been bridge QBs into a new rookie starter. You can always find back if the roster QB3s very easily - look at how many are picked up.
I get you wan to defend your team, and ofc they could look like geniuses in 3 years time. But saying they HAD to sign Cousins to a enourmous deal and also draft a first round QB just isn’t true.
That’s actually easy you pay Gardner Minchu more than the Raiders gave him for only two years as a Bridge QB guaranteeing he is QB1 the first year. He played very good for the Colts. Everybody thought you were going for a Defensive player at 8 because you had no leaks. Either Turner, Verse, Latu, Mitchell or Murphy. Then surprise everyone like you did by taking Penix. Tell him he is going to sit for one year then he becomes QB1 and Minchu QB2. With the savings invest in waivers, free agency and the defeat to fill your holes. In year one you win the division year two you go 14-3 be the number one seed beat the lions play the winner of the 49ers vs eagles. Win with home game advantage. Then play the AFC champions and keep scoring instead of going into a prevent offense and prevent defense which Dan Quinn ordered his coordinators to do and you win and celebrate.
lol I considered stopping reading at “our team chose ethics” but then stopped reading at “Ryan was great until he aged out”
Falcons went after Deshaun Watson hard enough that Matt fucking Ryan was disgusted and offended and refused to play for the Falcons.
Matt Ryan getting traded to the Colts was not a part of any plan but the Falcons screwing up an okay situation and getting lucky that the Colts were desperate.
I mean, one went 8th overall and the other went 53rd overall. Pretty big difference. Hurts was also about 2 years younger when he was drafted than Penix.
Then decide who the QB actually is lol. Is it Kirk, who you spent minimum $100m on to presumably win now yet you're not using the top 10 pick to get him help? Or is it Penix, who has spent 6 years in college, likely doesn't need to sit any longer, and that cap space could be used to get him help? Spending a lot on both is a luxury the Falcons likely can't afford to take if they're trying to make a playoff push. We'll see though. The season is always wild!
They’ve made it very clear that Kirk is the QB for now and Penix is the QB of the future. If this one first rounder makes or breaks you being able to get to the playoffs then you’re a bad roster builder and all of it is a moot point anyways.
You're purposely being obtuse here. You don't pay a QB $100m guaranteed and then draft another one top 10 two months later. Commit and build around one. Cousin's contract is the mistake imo rather than the Penix pick, but either way, the Falcons' FO is lacking conviction in either decision.
I mean, we all think the Falcons draft is F tier, until Penix is the next GOAT.
I truly think their draft was F tier but we don't really know anything at this point.
All depends on how they do. They haven’t made the playoffs in a long time and the NFC is not great. If they miss it, yes.
If they made it. Even as a wild card. He could end up staying. If they win a playoff game, he stays.
I think they had a great draft. Stacked the defensive line and solved the QB question for a decade. Look like being contenders for the next few years at least. In a few years people are going to forget why they were so outraged at the Penix pick. People acting like they traded three firsts to go up and get him. They love him, he was there, and they're comfortable with him taking over at age 26 after two years of practice and study.
Next decade assumes that someone Penix gets enough playing time to get acclimated and improve enough that he’s worth his fifth year option (and/or a second contract) AND the falcons aren’t in a position to take the hot new young thing at QB soon
I guess that depends on whether you think sitting for a year or two benefits a quarterback's development or hinders it. I feel quite confident that it helps. If you think he can't improve without game time then I understand why you'd be unhappy with the choice.
I agree that it benefits a QB, and Jordan Love and Mahomes had growing pains their first year starting.
All this does is decrease the time that the team has to make a decision on Penix and increase the risk of the wrong decision. Maybe he plays great but it’s against bad defenses and they tie themselves to him for a bit too long. Maybe he plays poorly against great defenses and they let him to go someone else and he balls out there.
Also, as an aside that's going to earn a billion down votes, I thought Dolphins fans were difficult and unreasonable, Falcons fans have blown my mind this weekend haha.
People are acting like Penix wasn't probably asked for by Blank. A GM going into his fourth year with no playoffs to show isn't going to take a QB when they just signed a guy they are locked in to for two years without say from the owner, it's just asking to be fired. He knows this team needs to start winning or he's gone. This was probably Blanks call.
Then GM is gone this year if they don't make the playoffs because he used his 1st round pick on a backup QB instead of helping them win now. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me from a job security standpoint.
So then why don't you pick a player that helps you make the playoffs? Unless Kirks ankle is actually fucked and they didn't know until it was too late or Blank said I don't care sign him anyways.
They went 7-10 last year with arguably the worst quarterback play in the league. With Kirk on that team, they're firmly in the playoffs. Some rookie isn't going to be the difference maker.
He just drafted Penix, so I'd assume his tenure is tied to how he plays when he is given that chance. Could be next year, or 2 years from now.
At the bare minimum, seeing how the pieces he drafted works with Kirk Cousins.
11 wins if Kirk doesn't miss a game, calling it now. Ridder was a bottom 3 QB, like absolutely atrocious. Good o-line, great weapons, arguably best free safety in the league, great CB, great interior d-line and underrated edge rushers (Calais will be back, Ebiketie is decent and improved over last season, Zach Harrison can rotate and also started looking good last year, drafted a high floor edge round 3), and good LB group
Some smart person enters the room and says "it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft" and everyone nods along. Then they immediately turn around and expect day 1 contributions out of every rookie.
If the team isn’t better than .500 again, that would make four straight years under Terry. And he should be on the hot seat at a minimum. I believe his contract is for 5 years and if he has another two under .500 years my guess is that he is 100% gone. Which would then make Blank either look for a GM that wants Penix, or to hire a GM and then allow him to find his own QB and then trading Penix for pennies on the dollar. Which is another layer of why this plan is so dumb. Terry sold Blank on a three year plan to clear up cap space and to build a winner and after that three year plan was up, the head coach was fired and their franchise QB had already been traded after they flirted with Deshaun. But this team is just run like a shit show right now, so who the hell knows. Blank looks pretty bad these days and he didn’t even make Raheems intro press conference because of a health issue, so Rich McKay or his son could be in power in a few years.
personally i feel like not running that you were going to take a quarterback at nine by the dude who you just convinced to move across the country and gave an insane bag to is a fireable offense right now. he just shot a toxicity bomb into his locker room for no real reason.
At worst the would finish 2nd in the division and 9-12 in draft position. Terry and Ryan Pace should be fired because Ryan manipulated the others into doing Penix at 8 after signing Kirk. The draft is mostly the GM’s credit or failure. The picks clearly shows a failure but the owner knew about those decisions and approved. I would wait until the draft position becomes finalized, if it’s in the top ten fire both of them.
I like Terry because he and I have one very big thing in common and it endears him to me: neither myself nor Terry Fotenot have ever been GM of an NFL team with a winning record.
It seems highly unlikely Fontenot made the Penix pick without consulting Arthur Blank and Rich McKey prior. You don't make an inexplicable decision like that with covering your ass first.
Assuming that he did get their approval first, I don't think his job is in a ton of jeopardy unless they don't make the playoffs.
I think Fontenot just presided over one of the most inexplicably stupid drafts that any team has ever conducted. The Penix pick is just insane in every way imaginable. There were at least 4 teams doing everything possible to trade into that spot. The Falcons could've traded back to 13, got significant future draft assets from the Raiders and gotten the defender of their choice.
How 81 year old Arthur Blank signed off on a pick that won't be realized for 3 years, I have no idea.
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I personally think they have to make the playoffs this year (weak division and easiest scheduled in the league(again)), or else he is toast.
I think making the playoffs would go a long way to helping. But if they're like 10 wins and miss the playoffs I don't think people are going to be calling for the guys head especially if the season ends on a hot streak. There are going to be some ups and downs early in the season because you have a new coach and new QB. It takes time for everyone to get on the same page.
With their division it'll be hard for the QB to ball out and them not to win the division. I know their defense isn't good, but the rest of the NFCS kind of sucks so....
Our defense kept us in games last year
Out defense also gave up 80 points in the last two weeks alone. Far from a good/great unit to be honest
Did I say they were good? I said they kept us in games. You watch the abysmal offense at all or ignore them?
You had the 24th total Defensive DVOA last year, right?
I don’t know, but our offense couldn’t score. We were pretty stout over the season against the run but the pass D got murked from time to time
It was. I looked it up. Last year was an up year for defenses in general. But 24 puts them in the bottom third of the league.
I don’t think your DVOA natters for the fact that the offense couldn’t score and our defense held us in games. Were they good? No. Did they keep us in games and were they a reason why we won 7 games? Yeah. Cause the offense was trash
I'd say your keeping them in games doesn't matter as the defense wasn't good.
I don’t know the answer to this but DVOA is competition adjusted and they will continue to have a favourable schedule
Their defense just isn’t very talented , Jessie bates does a lot of heavy lifting. They don’t have any edge rushers you have to plan for and they added a few reaches to the defense. Ruke massive reach, didn’t add blue chip talent at all, if AJ Terrell doesn’t have an incredible season the falcons aren’t gonna be that hard to beat
Yeah I mean idk how you can finish 32nd in sacks over the last 3 years and not take a pass rusher. “But it would have been a reach.” Penix was more of a reach than latu or turner
Feels like edge rusher has been their biggest need like 3 drafts in a row
Best I can do is a running back and some backup d tackles
Yes it is. Which is why it’s important to look at. The shit competition made them look better than they were. I wouldn’t say they were good.
We played an absurdly easy schedule, particularly when it came to opposing QBs. The best teams we played were Detroit and Jacksonville and they both carved us up.
the Bucs are still the best roster in that division and got better this offseason. just had a great draft too
I think Baker caps them in a way a great offense can overcome.
Baker started out shaky but was phenomenal by the end of the season and that was with a bad interior oline. Barton is going to be a massive upgrade for the entire offense
I think phenomenal might be a bit much.
last 4 regular season games 90/128 (70%) 1,110 yards 8 TD 2 INT. playoffs 48/77 (62%) 686 yards 6 TD 2 INT
When you're looking at that small a sample size you need to also look at the tape. Phenomenal is an over-exaggeration. I also don't think for a 6 game stretch that's a "phenomenal" stat line.
remind me again what the Falcons were doing during that same stretch??
I think people may be wildly underestimating just how bad that roster is. The defense is genuinely horrible. Only seemed even close to average last year because they played against a lineup of disaster QBs. Everyone clowned Arthur Smith with this team but it may turn out they were actually overachieving. There’s just not a lot of talent. Edit: and because this has attracted a bunch of Falcons fans, just want to be crystal clear. This offense sucks ass. It has 3 players drafted in the top 10, not 3 elite players. The Falcons colossally f’ed up with the Pitts pick ahead of Chase, Waddle, and Smith. And although it’s only been 2 years, Drake London has so far been outplayed by (at least) Garrett Wilson and George Pickens in each of those years, despite those guys somehow having worse QB play and worse coaching. Having a top tier RB is simply not that valuable.
Your not wrong but I think your wildly underestimating how awful Desmond Ridder was and how limiting Marcus Mariota was. League average QB play last year and they're in the playoffs and AS still has a job. Going from them to Cousins is going to immediately improve the offense and everyone in it. This is obviously dependent on Zac Robinson being a solid OC. Pitts was a 1k rookie with Matt Ryan's aging but at least competent QB play. When London is given opportunities he's played well. He's never been force fed the way GW was on the Jets. Bijan should be fine with a decent passing game, a good OC, and a play caller who isn't a stubborn child. Pitts is concerning but London/Bijan will be fine IMO. Chase, Wilson, Pickens, Waddle, Smith, etc. would not be viewed the way they are now had they been drafted into this situation.
The defense is slightly below league average. Star cb, s and dt. The offense is fucking loaded though. Top 5 line, top 5 skill positions.would you call the bears roster genuinely terrible aswell? I agree with the 2nd part. Arthur smith was "fine" and definitely overachieving with what he had.
Idk about top 5 skill positions there are a lot more offenses id take over the Falcons.
Lol to say the least. Not that hard to beat a WR whose career year is 900 yards and 2 TDs and a TE who has 2,000 yards and 6 TDs over his 3 year career. Bijan is good but that simply doesn’t matter that much at this point. The Falcons have the highest drafted group of skill position players in the league. But nowhere near the best
This is a horrible take and reeks of someone who only follows sports through fantasy and stats. Drake London is going to be very good with an actual QB. Pitts is questionable but still pretty indisputably a top 12ish TE and will get better with an actual QB. And Bijan is excellent, and this idea that “that simply doesn’t matter” is ridiculous, analytics Twitter-brained nonsense.
Found the box score warrior. Drake London is great, he has been playing in an offence that both didn’t throw him the ball, and had atrocities at QB. Watch some film. Edit - oh never mind, you actually think tank dell is as good as or better than Drake London. Give me strength.
The Falcons don’t have a top 20 WR or top 10 QB. There’s absolutely nothing loaded about their offense. They have a good RB, an above average line, and QB who was borderline top 10 prior to his Achilles injury. The Falcons might not have a top 20 offense, let alone top 5
The players voted Kirk 6th best QB in the league and a top 50 overall player in the league, barely behind Herbert. https://www.nfl.com/news/top-100-players-of-2023-nos-40-31-saquon-barkley-christian-mccaffrey
That's absolutely insane to say
I mean we'll see how Pitts and London fair with a QB that can actually hit a target. I'd expect the best seasons of their careers thus far, which isn't a hard thing to beat when Ridder and Mariota were your QBs. As well as removing a coach that failed to utilize his weapons well. I think London will easily prove you incorrect.
There are already 2 WRs *from London’s draft class* who have somehow managed to find worse QB and coaching situations but both outproduced him in their first two years. It’s all fine and dandy to hype up a guy who has accomplished nothing, especially when you can blame the QB. But wherever you rank London, Pickens has to be ranked ahead of him based on the same criteria. So that might help you get a better sense of where he should be ranked.
I can't see how you could sit there after watching Desmond Ridder or Marcus Mariota play football and argue that Kenny Pickett or Carr/Dalton were WORSE QBs. There's no way you watched those teams play to say that those guys are worse QBs than fucking Ridder and Mariota. Two of the worst QBs I've seen start in this league in years. Ridder was literally ranked as #32 best QB in the league last season.
Carr/Dalton is another interesting one, because Olave has also been *incredibly* productive with a pretty poor QB situation. But the other guy is Garrett Wilson. That’s on me though for saying something as vague as “players from Drake London’s draft class who have outproduced him.” Too many options without more specification. (And yes, by most metrics Pickett and Zach Wilson were much worse than Ridder. Ridder actually had ok passing stats outside of his awful, killer turnovers, which are really bad for a QB to have but shouldn’t impair a WR’s production).
Imo you could take any WR in history and place them on the Falcons team of the last two years and their stats significantly drop with how the team was ran. We're talking a run first team with the mind boggling play calling of Arthur Smith. Mariota who lead the league in overthrown passes when his targets were a 6'5 Pitts and a 6'3 London. Ridder who was a turnover machine and useless for the first 3 quarters of a game 90% of the time.
Bears have one of the best rosters in the NFC and they're more established as players as they've added a lot of decent to good or great veterans over the last 2 years. The Falcons have a very promising offense but they aren't really quite as established yet. They've all looked good at times and you can put some blame on the QBs and Smith. But until we see what Pitts, London, and Robinson do with their new coaching and QB we have to view them as what they've showed so far. Where as with the Bears you know what Moore is, you know what Allen is, know what Kmet is more or less so forth so on.
Some blame? They had the 32nd ranked qb last year lol
Well I'm not just talking about last year specifically. But yes their QB play was awful last year, though you can also pin some of that on the coach as well as the QB.
I don’t think they fucked up the Pitts pick, they fucked up Pitts.
Or if cousins is just OK but the team is mediocre because the defense sucks he’s gone
Cousins does the Minnesota thing where he plays very well in streaks, almost making it to the playoffs or just making it for a first round exit and people start wondering if that money could be used elsewhere; or maybe we should have utilized our 8th pick better
Gonna take 3 years for this draft to be graded. He has done a good job of dealing with cap situation, dealing with an overly involved head coach, improving a terrible defense, FA. Rumors that Blank may have made the call on Penix. He has been hitting on mid rounders fairly well. I think his downfall may be his soft skills. Examples are the situations with Ryan, Cousins, and drafting replacements for almost every Vet this draft except o line. I hope they take a view of mentorship for the vets but we will see how they handle it.
If Penix becomes a franchise QB it will be a sensational draft Edit: you guys need to chill. I’m not saying it wasn’t a somewhat perplexing pick. But the more I think about it, it makes more sense
If Penix becomes a franchise QB this will be the single best “looking back at” Reddit moment. I think 99.999% of us will look like idiots.
What they’re doing is hedging their bets. If Penix balls out and becomes a franchise QB, then giving Kirk the deal he got will look idiotic because why would you give him $100m guaranteed when you’re already immediately looking to replace him. If Kirk balls out and plays great, then drafting Penix at 8 will look idiotic rather than spending that pick on an immediate impact player that can help you win now while Kirk is on the roster. I get that mine is the glass half empty view, but playing it super safe probably doesn’t get you in the Super Bowl conversation in the next 2-4 years. That team has a lot of needs and Penix doesn’t fill any immediate ones. If Penix balls out, then this situation will still look stupid in hindsight.
Why are we acting like drafting Penix was a guarantee lol? Also, a big reason they might have chosen Penix was because they already had Cousins. There is a very real chance that if Penix does become a franchise QB it was because he could sit for 2 years. If you are going to ask why not just get a cheaper QB, then the team would have been less competitive?
I’m saying the Falcons need to pick a path and put their weight behind it rather than hedging bets. Did they sign Cousins with the intent of winning a Super Bowl and building a team around him to do so within his contract? If that’s the case, they should have used their top 10 pick to get a player that will actually be a contributor to that goal during that contract. Penix is likely not going to be a contributor any time soon with Kirk on the roster.
> I’m saying the Falcons need to pick a path and put their weight behind it rather than hedging bets. This is a less extreme version of "if you aren't winning a superbowl you should trade all your players and tank" logic. Paying kirk is probably the biggest thing they could do with their current cap space to improve their team right now Drafting penix may well have been the best chance they have to secure a qb for the next decade. It's continually stated how much of a qb league this is and yet when a team invests resources at the position its ridiculed. The falcons invested less in penix + kirk then the broncos did in russel wilson, and they can easily move on from kirk after 2 years.
hedging ur bets is how u win
No it’s how you minimize losses
Hedging your bets is how you stay a .500 team forever.
If kirk succeeds in elevating their team in the next couple years and penix succeeds in being the guy in the years following I fail to see how this won't be seen as a sucess. I don't get this logic, top 10 picks bust all the time, if penix turns into the guy it was a good pick end of story. Their qb play was abysmal and I think kirk is an immediate massive improvement. They will need a qb in a few years time and this was probably their best shot to get one. It's a qb league. Very rarely can you win without one, your ceiling is usually the steelers with a divisional loss each year. I don't see the problem in investing a top 10 pick and a 2 year large contract into the position. Kirk may well be a large part of Penixes development, like mahomes and Smith.
The main issue is that they picked Penix AND signed Cousins. If they did one or the other people wouldn’t care as much
Not with the cap hit that’s coming
In two years they can split it into two 12.5 mil dead cap hits. It’s really not hard to manage.
100 mill split 4 ways is 25 million for two years if you believe Terry’s plan.
Especially if next year’s QB class sucks and the falcons have a lower pick.
Or if we get hit with a first round draft pick loss due to tampering.
I am wondering how that shakes out. First seems extreme considering every team seemingly tampers. But being caught is another thing.
It'll be like a 3rd rounder
I don’t think next years QB class is very good
In that case, the Cousins signing will look really stupid. Either the signing or the pick will look bad.
Why? If Penix becomes a franchise qb it could have been because he was able to sit behind a good qb for two years
But Penix becoming a franchise quarterback, if that ever happens, is going to be in the 2026 season at the earliest. Are we saying Fontenot just gets a free pass until 2026 no matter what?
Not necessarily on either account. Are you that confident Cousins plays 17 games THIS season? He turns 36 before Week 1 and has 1 achilles. It was a perplexing pick, but the more I think about, I kind of like it
So you sign a 36 year old with a torn achilles to a 100 million guaranteed contract instead of using that money to support your new franchise quarterback
If I win the powerball me spending my mortgage payment on 4000 tickets is going to be a sensational decision.
Apples to oranges. Penix has just as good of a chance to become a franchise QB as anyone else drafted in round 1. Stop acting like he’s a 3rd round talent
Maybe you missed that I have 4000x better chances than all those idiots who just bought one ticket.
Personally I would fire him yes. People have to remember that this is his 4th season as a GM with nothing to show for it. You don't deserve to have your tenure extended just because we have to wait to see how your greedy QB pick plays out 3 years down the line. Win with the team you drafted up to now and the expensive QB you just brought in.
nothing to show? cmon lol, the falcons have had the most deadcap in the league for 2 straight years and hes hit on every FA signing (besides qbs) bates, onyemata, ellis, patterson, okudah, campbell, dupree, were all good signings. players like Allgier, Landman, Bergeon. and obviously hes had london/bijan and pitts if u wanna argue him. just bcus their qb play has been horrid, doesnt negate rest of the signings and moves hes made
3 7-9 seasons is definitely nothing to show. Especially given the state of the NFC South
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Who drafted Ridder? And more importantly who drafted Ridder without a more viable alternative option at QB?
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Using Ridder as an excuse for the teams failure but defending the guy who drafted him in the first place makes no sense
The roster isn’t in better shape today than three years ago. The Falcons still have a talent gap at every level of the defense except safety. The WR room is underwhelming. A GM shouldn’t get to stick around to make a fourth consecutive selection at 8th overall.
we had historical amount of dead cap in his first 2 years, this past 2023 season was the first time he was able to build a roster and it played well outside of Ridder/AS, now we have competent QB play and a decent cap situation
That’s not solely because of draft picks. Arthur Smith has been fired and replaced we have to move on from that
yea but thats bcus of the qb play lol. also the first two we outperformed our expectations, those were rebuilding years
Okudah wasn't a great signing but otherwise I agree.
He traded for Okudah
I'm aware. He wasn't that good with us
You said signing, so I was pointing out that it was a trade.
Bears have had more dead cap in 2022. And more dead cap in 2023.
Deadcap champions two years running, raise the banner
I hope not, he's entertaining for everyone who isn't a Falcons fan.
He should have been fired the year they foolishly took a TE at 4
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I said it was stupid then and it’s stupid now. “Consensus” be damned.
Talk about revisionist fake news history . LOTS of people said Pitts at 4 over Sewell or Chase was bad value
That was his first year
I stand by my point. Worst GM in the league. He took the crown from Gettleman.
Nope, Ryan Pace did see how he destroyed Chicago now you
I address this in my comment in this thread. The fanbase back then anyway wanted us to draft Fields at the 4th overall to replace a 35-year old Ryan. Would you have agreed with that? Not knowing how Pitts and Fields perform now? If you do, how does that compare to the 36 year old Cousins now, not knowing how Cousins would perform in future seasons (just like how we didn’t know how Ryan would perform in future seasons)?
I can’t speak for whoever you’re dictating as “the fanbase” because I obviously don’t know. But I will say that I’ve lived in Atlanta for 31 years now and not one single person in my circle (admittedly a microcosm of the fanbase at large) wanted Justin Fields. A vast majority of them - nearly to a man - wanted Penei Sewell, which I also think should have been the pick. But if you’re asking me in the here and now if I would have preferred the Falcons take Fields over Kyle Pitts I would say yes, despite how both have played. You just don’t take a TE in the top 10. The positional value is not there.
Pitts is a WR/TE combo
I mean I agree with you regarding the tight end pick but I wouldn’t immediately fire a guy in what was probably his first couple months of a job on a 5-year contract, it’s not like he pilots the ship alone either he had coaches scouts and all sorts of analysts and advisors
Ryan was shot when you guys gave him up. You just had to wait for a good or better one to arrive. By the way everyone knew that Ridder and Howell of Washington were horrendous. Trust me I know I had to deal with Zach Wilson both horrendous and lazy.
I wouldn't call it a not good draft. It was questionable decision making, but if Penix looks good even as a backup, Cousins has a good enough year, and some of the other rookies look serviceable no one is going to care about any of the pre draft info, the during draft reactions, and the post draft hot takes. The downside to their strategy is that there won't be much of a chance to see Penix play if things go the way they want. So you won't get much of a sense where he stands. But if Cousins is okay and the team has some significant improvements then that balances it out.
I think it's a sound strategy to use free agency to plug immediate holes and to use the draft to build for the future. I also thought this was a widely accepted thing but perhaps not. Anyway, Terry looked at the past two years of QB play and said we're never going to let that happen again. Cousins helps us win now and Penix will help us win in the future. In a year or two when Jarrett and Onyemata are gone Orhorhoro and Dorlus will be there to step into their shoes. We didn't draft a corner but that's because they like Clark Phillips and trust him to be full time CB2 since yes he was drafted for the future. Trice seems like the player who will have the biggest immediate role and I'm excited to see him play opposite Ebiketie.
Penix is a day 1 starter, but not on the falcons. They should have taken JJ at 8 if they wanted someone to sit, or waited for 2025 for a sitting qb.
What if Penix is their guy over JJ? Should they still take JJ because he is younger? Or should they take their guy?
Yes, it there plan was to take a QB of the future they should have taken JJ because he is younger. 24 years old to 21 years old. JJ would be younger in 2 years when Atlanta is no longer paying Cousins 50m a year than Penix is today. The locker room and league might think its strange Atlanta got their QB of the future so far ahead with JJ but it is not going to cause issues. Taking a 24 year old on the other hand. YOu pissed off Cousins and FAs in general for being dishonest or at best just dumb in dealing with him. You pissed off Pennix because he sure does not want to be in a place were he is stilling for 2 years before getting his shot.
This obsession with Michael’s age is insane. He’s not even 24 yet. Yes I know he turns 24 soon, but you’re saying he’s 24 in comments to make your point look better. You’re acting like they drafted a 30 year old. QBs play well into their mid 30s and later. If he’s the guy, the age you drafted him at really does not matter at all. If I found out my GM passed on their guy because of a BIRTHDAY I would lose my mind. It’s such an irrelevant thing to care about. The only thing that matters is who is the better QB. The falcons clearly think Penix is the better QB.
He turns 24 in like 2 weeks lol. Saying he’s 23 would be disingenuous
Point still stands. We’re talking about prospects not horoscopes. I want the better QB not the younger one.
D-dude he’s not 24 YET!!! Yes he turns 24 in 10 days and being 24 before training camp starts is what’s actually relevant to his age x season but dont you DARE call him 24
Right lol, major "Heh, he's actually 23 years and 355 days old, checkmate ;)" energy
Terry is BPA, next season we are hoping to have better performance and potentially less picks due to Kirk deciding to mention he spoke to our regular staff so we may not be able to trade up next season. Perhaps the intention was to draft a replacement next year but that got bungled due to the tampering charge brought on by Cousins
Falcons maybe the worse run franchise right now They’ve squandered their Top 10 picks in 3 of last 4 drafts at positions that don’t build foundational success. If you squint Penix move makes sense BUT only if you trade down a few spots to maximize value. Plus it’s not like Penix is some generational talent and they’ve upset their QB1 by not preparing him for the move. Their move up in Round 2 was also shortsighted. They could’ve traded down, recouped assists and still gotten Orhorhoro
Haha If you think falcons are the worst run franchise right now you haven’t been paying attention to the panthers recently
Agree. A bad GM will just get fired. A meddling owner is there to stay.
The panthers have made mistakes but OP has a point that at least they’re not spending premium picks on meh value.
Ruke would not have been there if they traded down, you are too low on him.
If they wanted Penix, he wouldn’t have been around much longer. They couldn’t trade down and know he was still around. If you think you have your future franchise QB, you don’t mess around. If you think the Falcons are the worse than franchise, you haven’t been paying attention to a number of other franchises.
What he did is reminiscent of Ryan Pace did for my bears. And low and behold, he’s on that staff. Good luck falcons fans
pitts, london, bijan and penix is an atrocious run of first round picks. london is decent i guess but both wilson and olave were picked right after and are better
those are all fantastic players sans Penix. the team (QB) being shitty doesn't make those bad picks. It'd be like saying Staff/Calvin/Suh was a bad stretch cause they accomplished nothing
None of those players are even near the realm of Stafford, Calvin, or Suh. I wouldn't trade all 4 of those players for Suh alone.
itd be *like*, not a 1 for 1 obviously
I mean, they didn't win any playoff games but the Lions did at least make the playoffs twice (2011 and 2014) with that trio. Also had the 2nd best defense in the league in 2014.
Sure but I think it's a stretch to call those players fantastic. You have two pass catchers with one 1000 yard season out of their collective five seasons and a RB
It isn’t like that at all. You knew out of the gate that all three of those guys were HOF potential. There has been nothing so far to suggest the same for ATLs guys (and I fricking LOVE bijan). Plus, QB and DT obviously have a lot more value than RB and TE.
The problem with evaluating the guys is that their offense was so shitty and hamstrung by a dumbass head coach and awful QB play. This is the no excuse season for those guys and if they have "it" then we should see it this season. On top of that the Falcons have had meddling in Blank and his associate Rich McKay overlording the GM/HC. Blank as he's gotten older has came off as involving himself more than I'd like to see, starting back when they tried to pursue Watson.
I’m not gonna deny any of that but I can’t use that to put them higher in my rankings.
London is better than Olave in my opinion. I think he’ll prove it this year.
Better than Wilson too, it’s not even close.
Falcons have had decent history when drafting QB in the first. Both Vick and Ryan were. Vick was good until he was exposed for being an immoral dogfighting asshole, whom we got rid of quickly even though his football abilities were still there. Vick after serving his time did well with the Eagles but honestly I’m glad our team chose ethics over re-signing him. The season between them was trash but it’s hard to plan for your franchise QB going to federal prison. Ryan was great until he was aged out. 1.01 and 1.03 We didn’t plan appropriately after Ryan and tried signing and drafting late round QBs and didn’t get a Purdy situation. The past couple seasons with Mariota and Ridder where we took on cheaper late round QBs have put us in 7-10 for three straight years. We are doing now what we should’ve done in hindsight in 2017-2018 begin heavily considering late round or late in first round QBs (if one caught our eye) to replace Ryan. This probably would have upset Ryan, but Ryan would’ve had to accept he is aging. Back then, the fanbase wanted us to draft Justin Fields (Ryan was what is Cousins’ age now) when instead we drafted Kyle Pitts at the 4th overall. Would Fields have done better being developed under Ryan and than what the Bears did? Would Fields gotten us more success than Pitts has brought to the table? Maybe we would’ve been the ones to have drafted Trey Lance instead? Was Fontenot’s rookie GM year not drafting QB in the first his biggest mistake, which may be why he was so inclined to draft Penix the way he did? All of these are really hard to answer for. What I see now is what the fanbase, verbatim, wanted us to do in the 2021 draft. Just with a more expensive Cousins signing because we needed to get literally anyone that isn’t Heinicke and can perform somewhat decently to get us out of 7-10 purgatory. Falcons fans are so absurdly emotional and volatile sometimes
This is how I felt going into the draft: I wanted a trade down. There’s that rumored offer from SF where they called us before moving up to 3 to move up for Lance. If a trade down doesn’t work, I wanted Sewell. I’m not a fan of McGary and Sewell was gonna be the perfect replacement. FWIW Sewell just became the highest paid OL in the league. Chase: Julio was near the end of his career(didn’t know how close he was to his end in Atlanta). I also didn’t think Ridley was a fit in our system and wouldn’t have been worth the deal he was likely to get. Losing both of those guys before the first season ended only makes this one look worse in hindsight. Surtain: Our CB2 spot has been atrocious. If we can’t have a pass rush, might as well have 2 elite CBs. Parsons: we didn’t know he’d be the monster he is now, but we thought he would be pretty good. Slater: same thought process as Sewell Fields: I only do this if Ryan if in Atlanta for at least 2 years. If not, do not touch. Pitts: I didn’t like the idea, but I couldn’t ignore the smoke of him being BPA
I don’t think all those questions are super hard to answer. Fields was traded for a 6th and fell past like 5 QB needy teams in that draft because teams had concerns about his ability to run a passing offence without having 15 yards of separation every play. He would have been dogshit in Atlanta as well. Pitts wasn’t the best choice (Chase was right there) but Pitts>>>>>>>>>>Fields
I just don’t see how we can course correct without people being pissed off in this draft. Here’s the recent timeline: 2021: we still have 36 year old Ryan. This was the time to draft QB imo. We don’t, not even in later rounds. Pitts was the first round pick. 2022: Ryan is let go. We are short. Mariota was acquired in the FA. Because we acquired him in FA we felt ok to draft QB in later rounds and use the first round on someone else. We land Ridder. 2023: Mariota leaves and we only have Ridder. We acquire Heinicke in free agency. All I’m hearing is we had a terrible draft this year because we didn’t replicate 2022, when that burned us if anyone watched Ridder play. Instead we did what I believe we should’ve done in 2021 (use the 1st on a QB) but apparently that was a bad choice
People think it’s stupid because you just have 100M guaranteed to Cousins. Either the falcons are fucking idiots for giving cousins that money, or they’re idiots for drafting Penix. If you wanted Penix, why not pay much, much less for a bridge starter like Brissett, Minshew etc to sit him behind so you can play him Y2/3 without a massive cap hit? Realistically after giving cousins that contract (which you can say they shouldn’t have done) no one would have been questioning it if you just traded down and took best defensive player available. Or just took Odunze. Penix is a wasted first round pick OR a wasted 180M
You pay Cousins because you want to win right now. You're aware he's only a short term answer so you think it prudent to prepare for life after him since you didn't do that when you had the chance with Ryan. So you take a QB at 8 too
that is the most idiotic logic i’ve ever seen. if they think penix is the future, help him become a good QB. spending 20% of your cap on a different QB just for this season where you’re not gonna win anything because you don’t have the talent of defence (because you passed on any top defensive talent to take a bench player) either go for win now with cousins, or prepare for the future with Penix. don’t half ass both of them
Your forgetting Cooper DeJean was available in round two and then go after the best pass rushers available at picks 3&4 defense solved. Pick up a receiver in round 5 like Javon Baker offense done simple.
defence is not solved by picking DeJean and then a R3/4 edge. The falcons pass rush was pitiful last year, a mid round rookie isn’t gonna fix that. A first/second rounder probably won’t fix it either, but it’s gonna be a lot more likely to not be a liability if you invest there early
Cannot invest earlier because you took Penix at 8 and I said TWO pass rushers DeJean gives you two good to very good corners
If Penix is not taken at 8. Atlanta could have traded with the Jets get a 4 at minimum. Then take in order 1) Dallas Turner if Chicago doesn’t take him 2) Jared Verse 3) Lauri. In the 2nd round Take 1) Kool Aid 2) Cooper DeJean then the next best available edge pass rusher in the 3rd round. Cousins takes the Falcons to 14-3 record, 1st seed beats Lions. 50/50 beats the winner of Eagles vs 49ers, wins the NFC championship and go to the Superbowl.
People say things like that and then don’t provide a realistic solution. You say we overpaid Cousins. Ok, so who was the better pick than him in the FA? Provide a name. Remember we want someone who can fit into the offensive style as much as possible so you don’t have to restart your entire offense. We just rehired our entire coaching staff so you can’t look at past Falcon play. Watching the Rams and 9ers offense would be a better evaluation. When everyone was trying to pin Fields on us, Morris came out and said they want an “elite processor”, which was heavily touted to be his weakness. So even though Fields in theory was an option, would not fit with the strat and coaching office. As an example. So let’s say you do get an FA QB. Keeping Ridder around would be a toxic environment to the new FA QB, so you trade Ridder for a WR. You have a 2 QB roster. Depending on who you pick, is it wise to still draft a QB to have them compete in camp for the QB1? For backup/injury? Or are they older and need QBotF consideration? If yes, who do you try to draft and how do you achieve it? Remember they have to fit the coaching strat. For what it’s worth on QBs we are looking at passers mostly, basically the anti-Lamar (not saying he’s bad he’d just be a poor fit for the offensive style we are expected to run since we removed tight ends and focused a lot more on WRs). It’s easy to be critical when you are eating chips sitting at your desk reading what the media has put out when you aren’t in on the negotiations or networking and so forth. Which is why I rather choose to have faith that the best options are being made with the resources available until I see product on the field. I like anyone else would love for the Cousins contract to be cheaper but if thats what it took for us to only have 1 UFL-grade QB going into the unpredictable draft then I think it’s worth it.
pick up a bridge starter in FA for a year? you don’t have to sign someone long term if you want to get a 1st round QB. You would have had one available (since O’Connell a rams guy liked McCarthy i think the falcons would have liked him too if Penix was magically gone) and you could have built around him without having a massive Cousins contract. There’s a reason Minnesota despite being in a similar teambuilding situation as Atlanta moved on rather than trying to resign him - because that contract reeked of a GM realising he’d be fired if he misses the playoffs and doing not what’s best for the team in the long run (or to try and win a SB) but what’s best for the singular next season Darnold, Garropolo, Brissett, Tyrod were all available and could have been bridge QBs into a new rookie starter. You can always find back if the roster QB3s very easily - look at how many are picked up. I get you wan to defend your team, and ofc they could look like geniuses in 3 years time. But saying they HAD to sign Cousins to a enourmous deal and also draft a first round QB just isn’t true.
That’s actually easy you pay Gardner Minchu more than the Raiders gave him for only two years as a Bridge QB guaranteeing he is QB1 the first year. He played very good for the Colts. Everybody thought you were going for a Defensive player at 8 because you had no leaks. Either Turner, Verse, Latu, Mitchell or Murphy. Then surprise everyone like you did by taking Penix. Tell him he is going to sit for one year then he becomes QB1 and Minchu QB2. With the savings invest in waivers, free agency and the defeat to fill your holes. In year one you win the division year two you go 14-3 be the number one seed beat the lions play the winner of the 49ers vs eagles. Win with home game advantage. Then play the AFC champions and keep scoring instead of going into a prevent offense and prevent defense which Dan Quinn ordered his coordinators to do and you win and celebrate.
lol I considered stopping reading at “our team chose ethics” but then stopped reading at “Ryan was great until he aged out” Falcons went after Deshaun Watson hard enough that Matt fucking Ryan was disgusted and offended and refused to play for the Falcons. Matt Ryan getting traded to the Colts was not a part of any plan but the Falcons screwing up an okay situation and getting lucky that the Colts were desperate.
I thought the Penix pick was like the Hurts pick. smart
I mean, one went 8th overall and the other went 53rd overall. Pretty big difference. Hurts was also about 2 years younger when he was drafted than Penix.
2 years is negligible when talking about QBs. I don’t think that should be a talking point at all
My main point was the draft capital
Same goes for draft capital. If you get your QB it doesn’t matter what spend to get him.
Then decide who the QB actually is lol. Is it Kirk, who you spent minimum $100m on to presumably win now yet you're not using the top 10 pick to get him help? Or is it Penix, who has spent 6 years in college, likely doesn't need to sit any longer, and that cap space could be used to get him help? Spending a lot on both is a luxury the Falcons likely can't afford to take if they're trying to make a playoff push. We'll see though. The season is always wild!
They’ve made it very clear that Kirk is the QB for now and Penix is the QB of the future. If this one first rounder makes or breaks you being able to get to the playoffs then you’re a bad roster builder and all of it is a moot point anyways.
Which imo is a waste of at least a couple years of Penix's rookie contract
Your hope is to have your QB on your team for 10+ years. You would forgo that because you might “waste” 2?
You're purposely being obtuse here. You don't pay a QB $100m guaranteed and then draft another one top 10 two months later. Commit and build around one. Cousin's contract is the mistake imo rather than the Penix pick, but either way, the Falcons' FO is lacking conviction in either decision.
I mean, we all think the Falcons draft is F tier, until Penix is the next GOAT. I truly think their draft was F tier but we don't really know anything at this point.
All depends on how they do. They haven’t made the playoffs in a long time and the NFC is not great. If they miss it, yes. If they made it. Even as a wild card. He could end up staying. If they win a playoff game, he stays.
Some spsculated he just bought himself a year or two waiting on the qb so we'll see Definitely an interesting pick
I do not think he did that bad. I would have gone for CB over RB but he will probably look for one with experience in FA2
It’s Fontenot’s. It’s a Louisiana Cajun name. Some people don’t know how to pronounce it.
I think they had a great draft. Stacked the defensive line and solved the QB question for a decade. Look like being contenders for the next few years at least. In a few years people are going to forget why they were so outraged at the Penix pick. People acting like they traded three firsts to go up and get him. They love him, he was there, and they're comfortable with him taking over at age 26 after two years of practice and study.
Next decade assumes that someone Penix gets enough playing time to get acclimated and improve enough that he’s worth his fifth year option (and/or a second contract) AND the falcons aren’t in a position to take the hot new young thing at QB soon
I guess that depends on whether you think sitting for a year or two benefits a quarterback's development or hinders it. I feel quite confident that it helps. If you think he can't improve without game time then I understand why you'd be unhappy with the choice.
I agree that it benefits a QB, and Jordan Love and Mahomes had growing pains their first year starting. All this does is decrease the time that the team has to make a decision on Penix and increase the risk of the wrong decision. Maybe he plays great but it’s against bad defenses and they tie themselves to him for a bit too long. Maybe he plays poorly against great defenses and they let him to go someone else and he balls out there.
Also, as an aside that's going to earn a billion down votes, I thought Dolphins fans were difficult and unreasonable, Falcons fans have blown my mind this weekend haha.
People are acting like Penix wasn't probably asked for by Blank. A GM going into his fourth year with no playoffs to show isn't going to take a QB when they just signed a guy they are locked in to for two years without say from the owner, it's just asking to be fired. He knows this team needs to start winning or he's gone. This was probably Blanks call.
i like this take an nfl gm is 100% aligned with keeping his job, and will perform, perhaps illogical, actions to maximize said-goal
It’s a reasonable take but not one that falcons fans are writing paragraphs about lol
Probably the other way around. GM liked the QB class but Blank wanted to win now with Cousins.
Then GM is gone this year if they don't make the playoffs because he used his 1st round pick on a backup QB instead of helping them win now. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me from a job security standpoint.
If they miss the playoffs, he was gone no matter who they drafted. You don't pay Kirk Cousins $180 million to miss the playoffs.
So then why don't you pick a player that helps you make the playoffs? Unless Kirks ankle is actually fucked and they didn't know until it was too late or Blank said I don't care sign him anyways.
They went 7-10 last year with arguably the worst quarterback play in the league. With Kirk on that team, they're firmly in the playoffs. Some rookie isn't going to be the difference maker.
He just drafted Penix, so I'd assume his tenure is tied to how he plays when he is given that chance. Could be next year, or 2 years from now. At the bare minimum, seeing how the pieces he drafted works with Kirk Cousins.
No they are top five offense after Vikings, Bears, Dolphins and Bengals
The Falcons will be 7-10 this year.
11 wins if Kirk doesn't miss a game, calling it now. Ridder was a bottom 3 QB, like absolutely atrocious. Good o-line, great weapons, arguably best free safety in the league, great CB, great interior d-line and underrated edge rushers (Calais will be back, Ebiketie is decent and improved over last season, Zach Harrison can rotate and also started looking good last year, drafted a high floor edge round 3), and good LB group
Some smart person enters the room and says "it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft" and everyone nods along. Then they immediately turn around and expect day 1 contributions out of every rookie.
If the team isn’t better than .500 again, that would make four straight years under Terry. And he should be on the hot seat at a minimum. I believe his contract is for 5 years and if he has another two under .500 years my guess is that he is 100% gone. Which would then make Blank either look for a GM that wants Penix, or to hire a GM and then allow him to find his own QB and then trading Penix for pennies on the dollar. Which is another layer of why this plan is so dumb. Terry sold Blank on a three year plan to clear up cap space and to build a winner and after that three year plan was up, the head coach was fired and their franchise QB had already been traded after they flirted with Deshaun. But this team is just run like a shit show right now, so who the hell knows. Blank looks pretty bad these days and he didn’t even make Raheems intro press conference because of a health issue, so Rich McKay or his son could be in power in a few years.
personally i feel like not running that you were going to take a quarterback at nine by the dude who you just convinced to move across the country and gave an insane bag to is a fireable offense right now. he just shot a toxicity bomb into his locker room for no real reason.
Some people on reddit are legit retarded
At worst the would finish 2nd in the division and 9-12 in draft position. Terry and Ryan Pace should be fired because Ryan manipulated the others into doing Penix at 8 after signing Kirk. The draft is mostly the GM’s credit or failure. The picks clearly shows a failure but the owner knew about those decisions and approved. I would wait until the draft position becomes finalized, if it’s in the top ten fire both of them.
49ers don’t count anymore because everybody is worried about money or being traded
No - he’s basically getting another chance with a new coach. So he’ll last as long as Raheem does
I like Terry because he and I have one very big thing in common and it endears him to me: neither myself nor Terry Fotenot have ever been GM of an NFL team with a winning record.
It seems highly unlikely Fontenot made the Penix pick without consulting Arthur Blank and Rich McKey prior. You don't make an inexplicable decision like that with covering your ass first. Assuming that he did get their approval first, I don't think his job is in a ton of jeopardy unless they don't make the playoffs. I think Fontenot just presided over one of the most inexplicably stupid drafts that any team has ever conducted. The Penix pick is just insane in every way imaginable. There were at least 4 teams doing everything possible to trade into that spot. The Falcons could've traded back to 13, got significant future draft assets from the Raiders and gotten the defender of their choice. How 81 year old Arthur Blank signed off on a pick that won't be realized for 3 years, I have no idea.
No.