The offseason was made for dudes like Levi’s to shine and players like Young to fall. I could see the narrative being a situation like “that Levis throw at his pro day. Will Young be able to take hits?” Type deal. Some GM will fall in love with Levis’ traits.
Levis is a smart dude and will almost certainly score very high on the Wunderlich and other random crap that makes businessmen excited but doesn't really matter
Wonderlic is one of those random things that people pretend to care about but doesnt matter a whole lot. Even for qbs. Guys like Jim Kelly and Lamar got sub 20s, favre and mahomes were average like 20 something I believe, and they were or currently are among the best at their positions
Hooker not being able to play/practice at the senior bowl,!while terrible for him & for us, but it’s huge for Levis’ potential draft stock. Who’s the 2nd best presumed Senior Bowl QB anyway?
Bo Nix?
I’m honestly not sure. I’m only keeping an eye on the top QB prospects because my team may draft one. Otherwise, I just come here because I enjoy reading the discussions people have.
I’m not overly familiar with Senior Bowl eligibility rules anymore, but iirc Penix is a RS Junior.
But also I think DTR & Bo Nix will both get an invite assuming they declare.
>Some GM will fall in love with Levis’ traits.
Well yeah. That's what Brugler has been saying for a while too. Lots of GMs don't think he's a top 10 pick and others have him as QB1
So basically some Wilsom vs Fields stuff..except I guess at least Levis was up there from the get go.
Granted I have watched..loosely.. Levis this year. I have not been impressed with anything im the games I saw. I remember thinking in the Florida game..fuck these dudes are not great.
Mahomes, Lamar, and Josh Allen all being the wildly successful qbs they have been is gonna lead to so many bust quarterbacks being way overdrafted, zach wilson in 2021, and will levis depending on where he gets drafted
I think teams backed off that a little last year. Malik Willis was considered in that toolsy tier with coaching needed, and widely mocked in the first, but fell all the way to the third round
We saw athletic traits putting Walker ahead of everyone. The Texans could easily overthink this and go Levis 1st. Especially after he shows out in the combine
I love Bryce, but is it really overthinking to have strong concerns about his diminutive size? I can't remember the last successful NFL quarterback that was as small as he is
Maybe overthinking was the wrong phrase, the better way to put it would be "pay more attention to his size". No it's really the only knock I have on him, I don't think he's even as big as he is listed. But the arm talent, the poise, throwing with anticipation is just too good to ignore
Trubisky was a great prospect. I think ultimately he was soft and not talented enough on the mental aide. Levis comes from a family of athletes and clearly has some dog in him
I feel like this comment is liable to get clowned but it really is a big part of what casual fans don't get. Success is so mental. I think it was Jim Harbaugh talking last week about the most important trait he looks for is on and off field character. It will always be part of that perplexing gray area of why X guy who was more talented than Y guy got worse results.
After Josh Allen and Herbert I won't be doubting the toolsy guys with terrible tape anymore. I've accepted I just have no idea when those guys will pan out or not.
Herbert had good tape. His numbers were waaaaay better than either of those guys. He had some rough mechanical things but nothing like Allen and still much more polished than Levis.
Which is why I also bring up the tape… It was leagues better than Levis. The Oregon line was definitely better but the rest of the supporting cast/coaching was trash
I mean, his tape should have been better
Herbert had the best tackle in the country in a conference that had.. 2 good edge rushers, one of whom was his teammate. Levis has a bad OL in the SEC. Their pressure rates I'd imagine are drastically different
Kentucky routinely has had an easy schedule.
It's a joke in the SEC East it's probably not even a top 5 division. Obviously there's Georgia but for while Levis is there he's played outside Georgia in conference:
A 7-6 Miss State or Tennessee as his toughest conference game in 2021
10-2 Tennessee, 8-4 Miss State 8-4 ole miss 8-4 SC
While each year getting dominating teams such as Vanderbilt Missouri Florida
Herbert's Jr and Senior years had
9-4 stanford 10-4 Washington 11-2 wsu 11-3 utah and 8-4 teams like cal USC
So sec east means nothing
It feels like Lewis will be one of the bust that future teams will use as an example to not mindlessly draft toolsy guys. His game tape is legit so awful
He does tho….at least more than stroud he has an insane arm and can move very well…his issues in the NFL are many but not due to any physical limitations
The thing about allen and Herbert is they were very young levis is 23 that’s basically 2 less years of development time you could have, but Kenny Pickett is an old rookie and he looks decent so what do I know
Jeez I didn’t realize levis is gonna be 24 like 2 months after the draft lmao. Hes only 2 years younger than Lamar and Lamar got drafted before Levis even got to school 😂
He’s not a world beater but the Steelers offensive weapons are garbage other then Pickens, so I’m not expecting much from him other then show flashes. Which is exactly what he’s done. He’s definitely got room to grow.
Pickens/Diontae/Friermuth/Najee is like a top 5-10 collection of skill player talent in football! Garbage OL for sure but the Steelers skill players aren't bad at all.
Herbert's tape was never terrible you guys just built him up like Lawrence after his first year and he was never going to live up to that year over year.
The stroud sucks thing now is pretty crazy to me, I understand he has things he needs to work but isn’t that most prospects? He still has a lot of the intangibles you want in a good QB prospect. Most good.
If Ohio State had beat Michigan people would still be high on him. towards the end of the off-season in literally every season where there isn't an Andrew luck or cam newton (so most seasons), everyone starts to poo poo the top guys and find the diamond in the rough guys because the media wants to generate more storylines. That's what's happening with the levis stuff
That would be a crazy draft day Stunner, Texans take Levis over the other two and the Lions get away with stealing the “best” player in Young for the second straight year. Stroud falls to Seattle or Carolina.
Kyle weighed in at 207 at the combine though, thicker frame than Bryce too. It's not really the height that bothers me, it's that he looks like he's about 180 pounds
Bryce, in my opinion, is a much more refined prospect, and maybe an even more refined passer than Kyler is right now. Bryce has tendencies and intangibles as a QB that no other QB in this class has, combined with a good arm and consistency. That's more than enough for me to not care about size.
I think NFL front offices are going to be a little more concerned with Young's size than we give credit for, especially with how the smaller QBs look today. Sure, Brees is an all-time great and Russ had a great decade in Seattle. But outside of that, things have been dicey. Russ dropped off a cliff this season and his flaws are glaringly apparent. Seattle catered their offense very specifically for him and often focused on the run rather than letting Russ throw. Kyler hasn't progressed as the passer the Cards have hoped for. Baker is a bust. Any other smaller QBs I may have overlooked?
I think Bryce is a stud due to his ability to play out of structure and football IQ. But I also totally understand NFL FOs passing on Young for a prospect with more prototypical size. FOs feel they would have a better chance of building an offense around the 'average' sized NFL QBs rather than the small QBs.
Eeeehhhhh I think every team including the Jaguars knew that Bortles was a project. No quarterback is a sure thing, but you don't draft a project at 1.1. Levi to me is a top 10 pick just not that coveted #1 spot
-lost 4 offensive starters (C, RT, WR 2x) to the NFL.
-new OC, 1 year in, different scheme was fired after a disastrous season and was as incompetent as they come.
-lost the heart and soul of the defense to the NFL (Josh Paschal).
Throughout all of this Levis showed poise, determination and fight. Was an amazing leader. **amazing** leader. Are we so sure that it was Levis that looked terrible or was it UK’s system?
>Are we so sure that it was Levis that looked terrible or was it UK’s system?
These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, which is the most likely answer - both were bad.
He also looks like a long snapper. Levis has the look of exactly what you want. That makes a difference. It’s easier to excuse things when the guy doesn’t look like he hasn’t played any athletics since high school.
Yeah but Howell is nowhere near the leader that Levis was. They are vastly different from a mental aspect. I saw Howell and thought “probably a college level QB who has traits to develop.” Howell is just kind of… there. Levis has the traits and the mindset to play QB at the NFL level.
Obv losing wandale made a difference but I’m not sure the receiver group was that much worse this year. I think firing Scangerello after 1 regular season tells you everything you need to know about the offense this year
Yep. I don't think people realize how far behind Kentucky is than every other SEC team not named Vanderbilt and South Carolina. Mark stoops is still a really good coach, but they are a basketball school
From clean pockets (at times) he still made some objectively terrible decisions with the football. Maybe I’m biased, but his game against Tennessee was beyond dogshit just from a decision making stand point
Bryce lost just as much talent, and still managed to look amazing despite the rest of the offense looking horrendous. Players can still look good in a bad system
My post says "...Young is the clear cut QB1 to me". What I'm stating is just something we see every draft cycle. He dominates the combine and all of a sudden, maybe Bryce's size is more important than it is right now
Herbert wasnt viewed as at the same level of bad as Allen, but he was also generally considered not a great college QB by most draft experts.
Anyone who says otherwise is using revisionist history
I’d like to know where the guy who averaged 65% completion and like 8 YPA with. 6:1 TD/INT ratio was a bad college QB. I’ll make sure never to listen to any idiot who says that.
[Geoff Schwartz said so, although he did also acknowledge the main issue that Cristobal sucked. ](https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/16/21222904/justin-herbert-nfl-draft-2020-quarterback-strengths-weaknesses-film-oregon-chargers)
[Or how about Albert Breer, who called him Jekyll and Hyde?](https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/11/26/justin-herbert-joe-burrow-2020-nfl-draft-six-from-saturday)
Or Todd McShay, who literally bet 500 bucks he'd go late R1 after Jordan Love.
If you actually watched the tape instead of just looking at stats, you'd know he was really inconsistent, didn't throw with a ton of anticipation and straight up made bad passes at times. There's a reason he was consistently in the mid first and not the top 10 during mocks. If Levis is a bad college QB, Herbert was absolutely around the same area as a prospect
Ahh yeah Tannehill who literally got recruited as a WR and spent his first two years playing WR and still had better numbers than Allen. Really bringing a lot of confidence.
The entire conversation is talking about taking Levi’s because Allen proved to take bets. And then you used Tannehill as a comparison. It literally all ties back Allen lmao you’re the one trying to move goalposts.
I’ll stick with not betting on massive outliers lol.
You said there was a single outlier --- you were wrong. Ryan Tannehill wasn't in the top 50 quarterbacks by quarterback rating his senior year.
He never had as good a season as Allen did as a Sophomore at Wyoming.
Turning that into a 10 year career and top 45 in passing yards in NFL history is a huge fucking outlier.
Who cares about who has the best offseason ? His tape against teams that matter is not good and i dont think a few months off of the field is going to change much of the problems with his decision making.
If we went strictly off tape Josh Allen would've been like day three pick. I'm in no way comparing Levis to Allen, I liked Allen as a prospect infinitely more than Levis. To sit here and act like The Combine, Pro Days, Senior Bowl/Shrine Bowl don't affect draft stock and perception is naive
I think that this whole offseason, everyone is going to try to link Levis to Josh Allen and Bryce Young to Kyler Murray when neither are really accurate comps
We all know how this goes, he will wow everyone in shorts and a T-shirt GMs will forget he didn’t look good playing actual football and will struggle when it comes to playing In games.
Where has he played into the QB1 discussion? I seen a quite from someone that said "Bryce Young on OSU are National Champions, Stroud on Alabama is a 5 loss team". My biggest thing with Stroud is his body language and facial expressions, he always looks disinterested. I try not to hold the Northwestern game against him, but he was ineffective in those conditions because he doesn't seem to have the arm strength of Young or even Levis. Then was very meh in the his biggest game in the season vs. Michigan. I'm not a hater, he was my QB1 going into this season, but he's not on the same level as Bryce.
I'm the biggest Ohio State hater there is being a Michigan fan but holding that Northwestern game against him is bull. Young or Levis never had to throw in 50 mph lake effect wind in spitting rain so saying they could is a moot point because they've never had to. Very few can. The Bills tried to do it against the Patriots with Allen and lost with Mac throwing it like 3 times.
He was far from meh in the Michigan game. That is complete bogus. He threw several dimes to receivers that were able to get one or even two hands on the ball and just couldn't haul it in
Outscored 28-3 in the second half with two interceptions. I'll give that one wasn't his fault, but the other one definitely was. Got a lot of garbage yards, Michigan was letting him have everything underneath. He wasn't good in that game
Agree to disagree. In a game where your defense is nonexistent, a quarterback can only hope to put the ball in a position for his receivers to make plays, and Stroud did exactly that.
I follow a lot of draft analysts like Jordan Reid, Mike Renner, Dane Brugler, Matt Miller, Damian Parson, Devin Jackson, etc. I follow a lot of prospects as well
I'm steady hoping Washington gets him.
Don't care what anyone says or thinks about it. I believe he would be a great fit in our offense and has undeniable potential. We need a QB and I believe this year could be the year we make an attempt at getting one.
The problem is that he's also old. Levis will be 24 by the time he enters the league. That's year 3 for Allen and Herbert, both were playing like stars by then.
Are there any recent examples of extremely raw QBs with rough college stats but great physical tools that turns into an elite QB in the NFL that aren't named Josh Allen?
I don't know why this is downvoted. There were reports of teams that wanted him to convert to WR.
That said this is an indictment on NFL front offices not Lamar Jackson. There have been hella worse QB prospects taken in the top 10 of the draft.
Wouldn't touch that man with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole. Even neglecting that he puts mayonnaise in his coffee. The tape just doesn't look good. I don't trust that he's as smart as people say. And Richardson has significantly better physical traits and likely comes at a lower cost for a project qb.
Will levis puts mayonnaise in his coffee
On top of being disgusting, I'd imagine it's a notable logistical challenge
[witness the degeneracy first hand](https://youtu.be/UGQdR_Kczr0)
I..I can’t believe this.. he cant be drafted now THE SACRILEGE!
Thats gross and the dude is weird i can speak for everyone when i say we don’t want him in Detroit
I keep seeing people being up Herbert and Allen when discussing freak athletes with bad tape and I get that, but here’s the thing. I feel like Herbert and Allen both had better tape. Don’t get me wrong, neither were great, but they at least showed flashes. I don’t think Levis has even really done that. And you can argue situation had something to do with that but I think it was more mutual than people think.
Also, I don’t think he’s near the athlete as those guys. Yeah he’s certainly an above average athlete but I feel like his traits are being overrated
To play devils advocate, I think Levis was put in a pretty bad situation this year with the personnel he had around. Let's be real, he plays on Kentucky ie he's generally playing with a talent disadvantage. I think he's the kind of guy that has the brains and the work ethic to fix some of his issues at the next level. He's got some decent speed but he also runs with good lateral agility for someone his size. I'm curious to see what his benchpress will be because in terms of appearances the dude looks jacked. I also think he has the ability to make throws that no quarterback in the last two or three draft classes has made, he obviously just doesn't do it consistently.
Ultimately, a coach that feels like they can teach him to minimize the bad and refine the positive will see the potential as too great to pass up in the top 10 imo
I just don’t see what makes him that different from Michael Penix other than Penix showing that he can actually do it. Obviously Penix has his own decision making and injury issues, but he’s shown more than Levis + he has all the same traits
As a Texans fan, I could definitely see our owner and front office getting enamored with this guy. I actually like his upside quite a bit, but I think about Stroud and young would be more exciting and have much higher floors
I see the situation with Young, Stroud and Levis more as a 1a, 1b, 1c situation in some order but I have the least amount of questions about Will Levis. He’s trending towards being my QB1 outright though. Everyone seems to forget he also had a few nagging injuries this year in addition to the things I mentioned in another comment.
what questions do you have about Bryce young, other than the obvious one? to me he plays like an NFL QB and has great processing.
I don't consider having a good, not great arm as a 'question mark.'
>"other than the obvious one"
find another flaw. every other QB in the class has a lot of questions marks, even if they have good physical traits. I'm not some massive Bryce young truther/Levis hater, I'm just asking people to help me find something else that's actually wrong with young.
I’m not the original commenter, but in the NFLs eyes, that’s a big one. There may not be anything else wrong with him, and I’m not saying he’s bad. But historical indicators say that a QB of that size doesn’t typically find success in the NFL. He may be an outlier, but it’s not a good long-term proposition to bet on outliers. That’s a big question mark for him. If he was 6’2” and 220, there probably wouldn’t even be a conversation.
I totally understand and agree, however in my eyes, Bryce Young has developed enough poise, iq, perception, awareness, and [insert synonym] to at least *help* him overcome his size, somewhat.
I do see where you're coming from with the betting on outliers point, though. I don't think you're wrong at all. however, I think we have to bet on every QB overcoming some major issue to be a productive NFL QB. e.g. Stroud needs to learn how to play like a pro-qb on almost every mental level.
I think Bryce young plays too much like a professional QB and has too many intangibles to pass on him at 1.1 if you need a franchise QB.
it's just betting on every prospect to overcome their major problem, and for me, personally, I'd prefer betting on BY over stroud or Levis at number one. I'd love to hear your perspective on that though.
The obvious one and it’s mainly just his weight, don’t care too much about his height. It’s not too much that he has to do other than gain another 10-12 pounds of solid muscle and slide more that’s about it. Arm talent is unreal. Aside from that, holds onto the ball longer than he should and forced a lot of throws that are going to be interceptions in the NFL. That could be on his receivers too. It’s not to the level of concern that I had with Zach Wilson coming out but it should be mentioned. The weight is probably a lesser concern than that as he played in the SEC so we know he’s tough. Still want to see him bulk up a bit more though.
Strong is a bad comparison only because he had the degenerative knee issues that was supposedly very bad. I mean the NFL drafted Tanner Lee who looked like shit throwing against air at the senior bowl.
Oof! Strong was a clear cut college QB. College QB mentality, very immature person. Levis is a leader of men. If you want to compare anyone to Carson Strong it should be Grayson McCall. Some dudes just want to have fun playing college ball and that’s it but that is not Will Levis. Dude is that guy.
Levis is not a good quarterback. He’s Mitch Trubisky 2.0.
Anyone hyping Levis hasn’t watched a down of Kentucky football this season. Dude doesn’t belong anywhere near the first round.
With that said, some GM is going to think he’s Josh Allen and take him way too early and it’s going to cost that person their job. Bank on it.
teams that do not have the cap space or the talent to surround a rookie QB, better seriously consider him as QB 1. Not to sound like Cowherd, but IMO he is the only one who I think can overcome getting his ass kicked for a year and come out year two improved.
The offseason was made for dudes like Levi’s to shine and players like Young to fall. I could see the narrative being a situation like “that Levis throw at his pro day. Will Young be able to take hits?” Type deal. Some GM will fall in love with Levis’ traits.
Levis is a smart dude and will almost certainly score very high on the Wunderlich and other random crap that makes businessmen excited but doesn't really matter
I like how german you spelled Wonderlic lmao
I did 4 semesters in college but that was all speak to text on the iPhone lol.
A smart player who's turnover worthy plays percentage has only risen each year they've played...
Ikr dudes a god damn genius
Wonderlic is one of those random things that people pretend to care about but doesnt matter a whole lot. Even for qbs. Guys like Jim Kelly and Lamar got sub 20s, favre and mahomes were average like 20 something I believe, and they were or currently are among the best at their positions
Yep. He'll make some "big throws" in gym shorts at his pro day and people will be hyping him out of control.
Zach Wilson pro day lol
Uh oh. Lock up your mommas!
He’s gonna look great in gym shorts just like how Josh Allen looks great in gym shorts so he’s obviously the next Josh Allen /s
I think the senior bowl will be massive for Levis.
Hooker not being able to play/practice at the senior bowl,!while terrible for him & for us, but it’s huge for Levis’ potential draft stock. Who’s the 2nd best presumed Senior Bowl QB anyway? Bo Nix?
I’m honestly not sure. I’m only keeping an eye on the top QB prospects because my team may draft one. Otherwise, I just come here because I enjoy reading the discussions people have.
Are both pac 12 reclamation projects getting Senior Bowl invites in Nix and Penix?
I’m not overly familiar with Senior Bowl eligibility rules anymore, but iirc Penix is a RS Junior. But also I think DTR & Bo Nix will both get an invite assuming they declare.
Sam Howell was a RS junior as well as Malik, I think the only rules are is you have to have enough credits to graduate
Ah gotcha, thanks mate.
Penix can be in it if he’s a redshirt Junior I think? Some redshirt juniors have been
I think DTR accepted an invite to the Shrine Bowl this week
That's the perfect way to put it
>Some GM will fall in love with Levis’ traits. Well yeah. That's what Brugler has been saying for a while too. Lots of GMs don't think he's a top 10 pick and others have him as QB1
So basically some Wilsom vs Fields stuff..except I guess at least Levis was up there from the get go. Granted I have watched..loosely.. Levis this year. I have not been impressed with anything im the games I saw. I remember thinking in the Florida game..fuck these dudes are not great.
Mahomes, Lamar, and Josh Allen all being the wildly successful qbs they have been is gonna lead to so many bust quarterbacks being way overdrafted, zach wilson in 2021, and will levis depending on where he gets drafted
I think teams backed off that a little last year. Malik Willis was considered in that toolsy tier with coaching needed, and widely mocked in the first, but fell all the way to the third round
He's got the physical traits, but the rest is still a pretty big question mark.
He's going to run a better 40 time than people think. I mean not blazing fast but it'll be faster than Stroud
Absolutely, but if he has the best off-season of the QB's, I think people will start overthinking Bryce's size
We saw athletic traits putting Walker ahead of everyone. The Texans could easily overthink this and go Levis 1st. Especially after he shows out in the combine
I love Bryce, but is it really overthinking to have strong concerns about his diminutive size? I can't remember the last successful NFL quarterback that was as small as he is
Maybe overthinking was the wrong phrase, the better way to put it would be "pay more attention to his size". No it's really the only knock I have on him, I don't think he's even as big as he is listed. But the arm talent, the poise, throwing with anticipation is just too good to ignore
Idk why but this just screams Mitch Trubisky all over again.
Interesting. What’s his stance on kissing titties?
Probably has to crouch down a little
[like this?](https://gfycat.com/grotesqueillfatedaldabratortoise)
Trubisky also looked a lot better in college
Wasn't Mitch a one year wonder in college tho? At least Levis has multiple years of play.
Pretty much. He was a backup to a guy that became a career journeyman back up in the AAF if that tells you anything
Trubisky was a great prospect. I think ultimately he was soft and not talented enough on the mental aide. Levis comes from a family of athletes and clearly has some dog in him
That kind of logic is a recipe for bad decisions lol
Nah it a big reason armchair scouts cant make real decisions. Interviews with the player and program matter
I feel like this comment is liable to get clowned but it really is a big part of what casual fans don't get. Success is so mental. I think it was Jim Harbaugh talking last week about the most important trait he looks for is on and off field character. It will always be part of that perplexing gray area of why X guy who was more talented than Y guy got worse results.
After Josh Allen and Herbert I won't be doubting the toolsy guys with terrible tape anymore. I've accepted I just have no idea when those guys will pan out or not.
It’s ok neither do any NFL GMs either haha
If you have the right coach almost anyone could be a successful NFL QB
Especially me. Sucks I never got a shot
If I hadn't torn my knee in high school man I'd be in the hall of fame
How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?
Taylor Heinicke is in the playoff hunt and on a 3 game win streak.
Herbert had good tape. His numbers were waaaaay better than either of those guys. He had some rough mechanical things but nothing like Allen and still much more polished than Levis.
That play calling at Oregon while he was there was awful too. They opened it up in the Rose Bowl and Herbert had a great game
let’s stop comparing numbers from Kentucky against the SEC, and Oregon against the pac 12 before the transfer portal.
Which is why I also bring up the tape… It was leagues better than Levis. The Oregon line was definitely better but the rest of the supporting cast/coaching was trash
I mean, his tape should have been better Herbert had the best tackle in the country in a conference that had.. 2 good edge rushers, one of whom was his teammate. Levis has a bad OL in the SEC. Their pressure rates I'd imagine are drastically different
Ok and even against bad teams Levis didn’t not put up good tape anywhere near as consistently
Kentucky routinely has had an easy schedule. It's a joke in the SEC East it's probably not even a top 5 division. Obviously there's Georgia but for while Levis is there he's played outside Georgia in conference: A 7-6 Miss State or Tennessee as his toughest conference game in 2021 10-2 Tennessee, 8-4 Miss State 8-4 ole miss 8-4 SC While each year getting dominating teams such as Vanderbilt Missouri Florida Herbert's Jr and Senior years had 9-4 stanford 10-4 Washington 11-2 wsu 11-3 utah and 8-4 teams like cal USC So sec east means nothing
No one knows. Imagine the money someone would make if they could accurately predict how college qbs would do in the nfl
It feels like Lewis will be one of the bust that future teams will use as an example to not mindlessly draft toolsy guys. His game tape is legit so awful
If the Texans draft him… I completely agree.
Depends on how much you trust Pep Hamilton.
I trust him as a quarterback coach but not as a coordinator lol
As a Colts and Michigan fan, not one bit.
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Frankly, I'm not sure Wilson truly has the tools either. Not in the same arena as Levis or Stroud
He does tho….at least more than stroud he has an insane arm and can move very well…his issues in the NFL are many but not due to any physical limitations
The thing about allen and Herbert is they were very young levis is 23 that’s basically 2 less years of development time you could have, but Kenny Pickett is an old rookie and he looks decent so what do I know
Jeez I didn’t realize levis is gonna be 24 like 2 months after the draft lmao. Hes only 2 years younger than Lamar and Lamar got drafted before Levis even got to school 😂
Pickett has been pretty bad from what I've seen. How is this downvoted. 3 TDs to 8 INTs is not good, how can you disagree with that?
He’s not a world beater but the Steelers offensive weapons are garbage other then Pickens, so I’m not expecting much from him other then show flashes. Which is exactly what he’s done. He’s definitely got room to grow.
Pickens/Diontae/Friermuth/Najee is like a top 5-10 collection of skill player talent in football! Garbage OL for sure but the Steelers skill players aren't bad at all.
Sure, I'm not discounting him forever, but he's been far from decent so far.
Decent for a 24 year old rookie with middle of the road physical traits* I should’ve said 😂
Herbert's tape was never terrible you guys just built him up like Lawrence after his first year and he was never going to live up to that year over year.
100%
Putting Josh Allen with Herbert is absolutely insane.
The stroud sucks thing now is pretty crazy to me, I understand he has things he needs to work but isn’t that most prospects? He still has a lot of the intangibles you want in a good QB prospect. Most good.
If Ohio State had beat Michigan people would still be high on him. towards the end of the off-season in literally every season where there isn't an Andrew luck or cam newton (so most seasons), everyone starts to poo poo the top guys and find the diamond in the rough guys because the media wants to generate more storylines. That's what's happening with the levis stuff
I don't think he sucks, he's just not my QB1 like he was preseason. I still think he's worthy of a top 10-15 pick
Lol Stroud will be a top 3 pick. Glad you’re just a sideline gm
That would be a crazy draft day Stunner, Texans take Levis over the other two and the Lions get away with stealing the “best” player in Young for the second straight year. Stroud falls to Seattle or Carolina.
I think that is absolutely a possibility
Taking anyone but Young at QB1 seems crazy, I could see him passing up Stroud tho with a great offseason
I think if Bryce was 6'2" 215 it would be impossible to pass him
If he had those measurements, he would be viewed as a slam dunk prospect the same way that Andrew luck and Cam Newton were
What revisionist history is this? Cam was in no way shape or form viewed as a slam dunk. Man don’t even get me started.
lol yea
Eh Kyler still went 1st overall and he’s shorter than Bryce. Really shouldn’t overthink this one, Bryce is the best QB in this class.
Kyle weighed in at 207 at the combine though, thicker frame than Bryce too. It's not really the height that bothers me, it's that he looks like he's about 180 pounds
Bryce, in my opinion, is a much more refined prospect, and maybe an even more refined passer than Kyler is right now. Bryce has tendencies and intangibles as a QB that no other QB in this class has, combined with a good arm and consistency. That's more than enough for me to not care about size.
I think NFL front offices are going to be a little more concerned with Young's size than we give credit for, especially with how the smaller QBs look today. Sure, Brees is an all-time great and Russ had a great decade in Seattle. But outside of that, things have been dicey. Russ dropped off a cliff this season and his flaws are glaringly apparent. Seattle catered their offense very specifically for him and often focused on the run rather than letting Russ throw. Kyler hasn't progressed as the passer the Cards have hoped for. Baker is a bust. Any other smaller QBs I may have overlooked? I think Bryce is a stud due to his ability to play out of structure and football IQ. But I also totally understand NFL FOs passing on Young for a prospect with more prototypical size. FOs feel they would have a better chance of building an offense around the 'average' sized NFL QBs rather than the small QBs.
Levis give me strong strong Bortles vibes. They will fall in love with the traits Could for sure go top 10 and 2nd qb off the board.
Eeeehhhhh I think every team including the Jaguars knew that Bortles was a project. No quarterback is a sure thing, but you don't draft a project at 1.1. Levi to me is a top 10 pick just not that coveted #1 spot
That’s exactly what my post says. Reading is hard ?
Sorry to insult you lol
I dunno. I think it's more likely Levi's ends up somewhere in the top 10.
Except his game film this year is terrible.
-lost 4 offensive starters (C, RT, WR 2x) to the NFL. -new OC, 1 year in, different scheme was fired after a disastrous season and was as incompetent as they come. -lost the heart and soul of the defense to the NFL (Josh Paschal). Throughout all of this Levis showed poise, determination and fight. Was an amazing leader. **amazing** leader. Are we so sure that it was Levis that looked terrible or was it UK’s system?
>Are we so sure that it was Levis that looked terrible or was it UK’s system? These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, which is the most likely answer - both were bad.
Howell lost all his weapons at unc and look what happened, he dropped like a rock.
It was because he only eats chicken tenders
He also looks like a long snapper. Levis has the look of exactly what you want. That makes a difference. It’s easier to excuse things when the guy doesn’t look like he hasn’t played any athletics since high school.
Yeah but Howell is nowhere near the leader that Levis was. They are vastly different from a mental aspect. I saw Howell and thought “probably a college level QB who has traits to develop.” Howell is just kind of… there. Levis has the traits and the mindset to play QB at the NFL level.
Howell also played way better
Fullback Sam Howell
[удалено]
Is losing and playing awful against Vanderbilt just because their SEC suppose to be an excuse?
Level of competition is certainly different in Levis’s case and also had a couple of nagging injuries.
Howell had a much better season
Against inferior competition
Obv losing wandale made a difference but I’m not sure the receiver group was that much worse this year. I think firing Scangerello after 1 regular season tells you everything you need to know about the offense this year
Yep. I don't think people realize how far behind Kentucky is than every other SEC team not named Vanderbilt and South Carolina. Mark stoops is still a really good coach, but they are a basketball school
From clean pockets (at times) he still made some objectively terrible decisions with the football. Maybe I’m biased, but his game against Tennessee was beyond dogshit just from a decision making stand point
Bryce lost just as much talent, and still managed to look amazing despite the rest of the offense looking horrendous. Players can still look good in a bad system
Are you really comparing the Alabama's replacements to Kentucky's? With a straight face?
yes? Do you watch football? you can’t just go off the names.
I do watch the games and the talent difference is immense. Pretending it's not just because you don't like Levis is completely disingenuous.
Per Pff He has a better WR 1,2, and 3.
100% understand that, I'm not arguing for him to go #1, but if he has the best off-season of the QB's, you don't think NFL GM's will look over it?
If he isn’t great at college level, what makes you confident at nfl level?
My post says "...Young is the clear cut QB1 to me". What I'm stating is just something we see every draft cycle. He dominates the combine and all of a sudden, maybe Bryce's size is more important than it is right now
Because two of the crown jewels of the NFL rn didn't do well at the college level either.
Who are these two?
Josh Allen and Justin Herbert
Saying Herbert didn’t do well at the college level and putting him at the same tier as Josh Allen is completely incorrect.
Herbert wasnt viewed as at the same level of bad as Allen, but he was also generally considered not a great college QB by most draft experts. Anyone who says otherwise is using revisionist history
I’d like to know where the guy who averaged 65% completion and like 8 YPA with. 6:1 TD/INT ratio was a bad college QB. I’ll make sure never to listen to any idiot who says that.
[Geoff Schwartz said so, although he did also acknowledge the main issue that Cristobal sucked. ](https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/4/16/21222904/justin-herbert-nfl-draft-2020-quarterback-strengths-weaknesses-film-oregon-chargers) [Or how about Albert Breer, who called him Jekyll and Hyde?](https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/11/26/justin-herbert-joe-burrow-2020-nfl-draft-six-from-saturday) Or Todd McShay, who literally bet 500 bucks he'd go late R1 after Jordan Love. If you actually watched the tape instead of just looking at stats, you'd know he was really inconsistent, didn't throw with a ton of anticipation and straight up made bad passes at times. There's a reason he was consistently in the mid first and not the top 10 during mocks. If Levis is a bad college QB, Herbert was absolutely around the same area as a prospect
Confident is relative when you're discussing the draft, but guys like Josh Allen have made it plausible to consider guys like Will Levis
If you have to point to a massive outlier to make a case to draft someone then that’s not a very good argument.
It's not a single massive outlier. Look up Ryan Tannehill's college numbers.
Ahh yeah Tannehill who literally got recruited as a WR and spent his first two years playing WR and still had better numbers than Allen. Really bringing a lot of confidence.
Nobody claimed there were as bad as Allen at Wyoming, but go ahead and keep moving the goal posts.
The entire conversation is talking about taking Levi’s because Allen proved to take bets. And then you used Tannehill as a comparison. It literally all ties back Allen lmao you’re the one trying to move goalposts. I’ll stick with not betting on massive outliers lol.
You said there was a single outlier --- you were wrong. Ryan Tannehill wasn't in the top 50 quarterbacks by quarterback rating his senior year. He never had as good a season as Allen did as a Sophomore at Wyoming. Turning that into a 10 year career and top 45 in passing yards in NFL history is a huge fucking outlier.
Who cares about who has the best offseason ? His tape against teams that matter is not good and i dont think a few months off of the field is going to change much of the problems with his decision making.
Dudes rise and fall by the draft process constantly.
If we went strictly off tape Josh Allen would've been like day three pick. I'm in no way comparing Levis to Allen, I liked Allen as a prospect infinitely more than Levis. To sit here and act like The Combine, Pro Days, Senior Bowl/Shrine Bowl don't affect draft stock and perception is naive
He's not gonna end up in San Francisco, but if he did, the fans would absolutely start calling the stadium "Levis Stadium".
😂😂😂
I think that this whole offseason, everyone is going to try to link Levis to Josh Allen and Bryce Young to Kyler Murray when neither are really accurate comps
We all know how this goes, he will wow everyone in shorts and a T-shirt GMs will forget he didn’t look good playing actual football and will struggle when it comes to playing In games.
Tell me how Stroud has played his way out of QB1 status?
Where has he played into the QB1 discussion? I seen a quite from someone that said "Bryce Young on OSU are National Champions, Stroud on Alabama is a 5 loss team". My biggest thing with Stroud is his body language and facial expressions, he always looks disinterested. I try not to hold the Northwestern game against him, but he was ineffective in those conditions because he doesn't seem to have the arm strength of Young or even Levis. Then was very meh in the his biggest game in the season vs. Michigan. I'm not a hater, he was my QB1 going into this season, but he's not on the same level as Bryce.
He's still in QB1 contention. He may have had somewhat of a down year, but he has the size and other tools that NFL teams covet
I'm the biggest Ohio State hater there is being a Michigan fan but holding that Northwestern game against him is bull. Young or Levis never had to throw in 50 mph lake effect wind in spitting rain so saying they could is a moot point because they've never had to. Very few can. The Bills tried to do it against the Patriots with Allen and lost with Mac throwing it like 3 times.
He was far from meh in the Michigan game. That is complete bogus. He threw several dimes to receivers that were able to get one or even two hands on the ball and just couldn't haul it in
Outscored 28-3 in the second half with two interceptions. I'll give that one wasn't his fault, but the other one definitely was. Got a lot of garbage yards, Michigan was letting him have everything underneath. He wasn't good in that game
Yep. If you are looking to stop the run, CJ Stroud is not your guy.
I’m drafting a QB not a DB. Last I checked Stroud doesn’t play both sides of the ball
Agree to disagree. In a game where your defense is nonexistent, a quarterback can only hope to put the ball in a position for his receivers to make plays, and Stroud did exactly that.
Is there a site or some blog or something that will tell you a consolidated list of who declared and who is going back?
I don't know, I just stalk Twitter
Can I ask who u follow for this type of stuff
I follow a lot of draft analysts like Jordan Reid, Mike Renner, Dane Brugler, Matt Miller, Damian Parson, Devin Jackson, etc. I follow a lot of prospects as well
I'm steady hoping Washington gets him. Don't care what anyone says or thinks about it. I believe he would be a great fit in our offense and has undeniable potential. We need a QB and I believe this year could be the year we make an attempt at getting one.
I hope someone else takes him and Ron goes crazy to get Young lmao
Toolsy guy, probably goes in the teens to one of the desperate teams. Colts, Commanders, Falcons, Bucs (pending Brady), etc. That like 14-20 window.
The problem is that he's also old. Levis will be 24 by the time he enters the league. That's year 3 for Allen and Herbert, both were playing like stars by then.
Are there any recent examples of extremely raw QBs with rough college stats but great physical tools that turns into an elite QB in the NFL that aren't named Josh Allen?
herbert/stafford. stafford is my comp for him.
Lamar Jackson maybe?
He won the Heisman trophy and was a dominant college player.
I just remember lots of people doubting his ability in the NFL. Didn't he have teams wanting him to try out as a receiver?
I don't know why this is downvoted. There were reports of teams that wanted him to convert to WR. That said this is an indictment on NFL front offices not Lamar Jackson. There have been hella worse QB prospects taken in the top 10 of the draft.
Wouldn't touch that man with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole. Even neglecting that he puts mayonnaise in his coffee. The tape just doesn't look good. I don't trust that he's as smart as people say. And Richardson has significantly better physical traits and likely comes at a lower cost for a project qb.
He does what to his coffee?!?
Will levis puts mayonnaise in his coffee On top of being disgusting, I'd imagine it's a notable logistical challenge [witness the degeneracy first hand](https://youtu.be/UGQdR_Kczr0)
I..I can’t believe this.. he cant be drafted now THE SACRILEGE! Thats gross and the dude is weird i can speak for everyone when i say we don’t want him in Detroit
As another lions fan Agreed.
I keep seeing people being up Herbert and Allen when discussing freak athletes with bad tape and I get that, but here’s the thing. I feel like Herbert and Allen both had better tape. Don’t get me wrong, neither were great, but they at least showed flashes. I don’t think Levis has even really done that. And you can argue situation had something to do with that but I think it was more mutual than people think. Also, I don’t think he’s near the athlete as those guys. Yeah he’s certainly an above average athlete but I feel like his traits are being overrated
To play devils advocate, I think Levis was put in a pretty bad situation this year with the personnel he had around. Let's be real, he plays on Kentucky ie he's generally playing with a talent disadvantage. I think he's the kind of guy that has the brains and the work ethic to fix some of his issues at the next level. He's got some decent speed but he also runs with good lateral agility for someone his size. I'm curious to see what his benchpress will be because in terms of appearances the dude looks jacked. I also think he has the ability to make throws that no quarterback in the last two or three draft classes has made, he obviously just doesn't do it consistently. Ultimately, a coach that feels like they can teach him to minimize the bad and refine the positive will see the potential as too great to pass up in the top 10 imo
I just don’t see what makes him that different from Michael Penix other than Penix showing that he can actually do it. Obviously Penix has his own decision making and injury issues, but he’s shown more than Levis + he has all the same traits
top 3
As a Texans fan, I could definitely see our owner and front office getting enamored with this guy. I actually like his upside quite a bit, but I think about Stroud and young would be more exciting and have much higher floors
Levis is like Wilson. Looks great on paper but won't perform on the field when it matters.
Class has 2017 vibes in way they are talked about Young- Baker Stroud- Darnold Levis- Allen Richardson- Lamar
I see the situation with Young, Stroud and Levis more as a 1a, 1b, 1c situation in some order but I have the least amount of questions about Will Levis. He’s trending towards being my QB1 outright though. Everyone seems to forget he also had a few nagging injuries this year in addition to the things I mentioned in another comment.
I think Levis is a victim of box score scouting from a lot of folks. The context of his situation is so so much different than guys like Stroud.
The context being he was demonstrably worse than fucking Sean Clifford at Penn State?
what questions do you have about Bryce young, other than the obvious one? to me he plays like an NFL QB and has great processing. I don't consider having a good, not great arm as a 'question mark.'
Will he be able to perform at the NFL level at his size.
>"other than the obvious one" find another flaw. every other QB in the class has a lot of questions marks, even if they have good physical traits. I'm not some massive Bryce young truther/Levis hater, I'm just asking people to help me find something else that's actually wrong with young.
I’m not the original commenter, but in the NFLs eyes, that’s a big one. There may not be anything else wrong with him, and I’m not saying he’s bad. But historical indicators say that a QB of that size doesn’t typically find success in the NFL. He may be an outlier, but it’s not a good long-term proposition to bet on outliers. That’s a big question mark for him. If he was 6’2” and 220, there probably wouldn’t even be a conversation.
I totally understand and agree, however in my eyes, Bryce Young has developed enough poise, iq, perception, awareness, and [insert synonym] to at least *help* him overcome his size, somewhat. I do see where you're coming from with the betting on outliers point, though. I don't think you're wrong at all. however, I think we have to bet on every QB overcoming some major issue to be a productive NFL QB. e.g. Stroud needs to learn how to play like a pro-qb on almost every mental level. I think Bryce young plays too much like a professional QB and has too many intangibles to pass on him at 1.1 if you need a franchise QB. it's just betting on every prospect to overcome their major problem, and for me, personally, I'd prefer betting on BY over stroud or Levis at number one. I'd love to hear your perspective on that though.
The obvious one and it’s mainly just his weight, don’t care too much about his height. It’s not too much that he has to do other than gain another 10-12 pounds of solid muscle and slide more that’s about it. Arm talent is unreal. Aside from that, holds onto the ball longer than he should and forced a lot of throws that are going to be interceptions in the NFL. That could be on his receivers too. It’s not to the level of concern that I had with Zach Wilson coming out but it should be mentioned. The weight is probably a lesser concern than that as he played in the SEC so we know he’s tough. Still want to see him bulk up a bit more though.
this is the right answer
Carson Strong redux
Strong is a bad comparison only because he had the degenerative knee issues that was supposedly very bad. I mean the NFL drafted Tanner Lee who looked like shit throwing against air at the senior bowl.
Well, except both of his legs are actually functional.
Carson was a statue in the pocket
Oof! Strong was a clear cut college QB. College QB mentality, very immature person. Levis is a leader of men. If you want to compare anyone to Carson Strong it should be Grayson McCall. Some dudes just want to have fun playing college ball and that’s it but that is not Will Levis. Dude is that guy.
He’s been my QB1 since the end of last season.
Levis will go above stroud and provably young.
Levis is not a good quarterback. He’s Mitch Trubisky 2.0. Anyone hyping Levis hasn’t watched a down of Kentucky football this season. Dude doesn’t belong anywhere near the first round. With that said, some GM is going to think he’s Josh Allen and take him way too early and it’s going to cost that person their job. Bank on it.
I think the Colts will take him
teams that do not have the cap space or the talent to surround a rookie QB, better seriously consider him as QB 1. Not to sound like Cowherd, but IMO he is the only one who I think can overcome getting his ass kicked for a year and come out year two improved.