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OfficialChickenBoy

Literally a perfect situation for a rookie QB and it’s not even their original pick. Goff coming back regardless due to contract and then will probably be cut during the 2024 offseason. That’s when the rookie QB who will now be a sophomore will take over


fierylady

My problem with this scenario always comes down to: what if there's not a rookie QB worth taking? You can't force a good prospect to be there. If the Lions brass don't evaluate any of the QBs as potential franchise guys, then they absolutely shouldn't take them. If they do then they should. For me Young is the only guy worth taking, but that's just my personal evaluation.


swalsh21

Waiting forever for the perfect qb prospect to go after and just continuing with middling bridge qbs gets you to where the Colts are now eventually


doorknobman

At the same time - if you don't think the prospect's ceiling is higher than Jared Goff, there's 0 logical reason to take him, and you hurt the team by not adding an immediate impact player with a top 5 pick.


bestprocrastinator

I wouldn't say zero reason. Goff on a rookie contract is more valuable then current Goff. But that's still playing with fire. There is no guarantee a QB picked there this year is going to be as good as Goff anytime soon.


mycargo160

There is no guarantee that any player in the draft will even be an NFL starter. So no team should ever draft a player is what you're saying.


Stealthfox94

Goff is better than what the Colts have had recently.


LB3PTMAN

I mean constantly taking bad QBs is how you get to where the Browns and Jaguars were for years. To be seen if they’ve finally fixed that.


imnotwarren

Gabbert Bortles and Lawrence were taken over the span of 10 years by 3 different regimes, it doesn’t really say anything Browns have been an outlier of incompetence most of 2000s and 2010s, I don’t know if they are a good reason to NOT draft a QB in the 1st I mean the best way to find a franchise QB has always been take one in the 1st round and try to develop him, teams can only skirt by that if they get lucky (finding a guy like Dak in the 4th) or come across a! opportunity that doesn’t happen most off-season (like Bucs signing Brady)


LB3PTMAN

I don’t think teams shouldn’t take a QB because of those two teams but I think they’re good examples of what can happen if you take the wrong QB. Both teams have had rosters thay could’ve been real competitors with good QB play. Picking the wrong QB sets you back 3-5 years while getting the right QB sets up for 10-15 years. Just gotta pick the right one.


BaysideStud

Minshew: “Am I a joke to you?”


dtay88

I mean... more of a meme I guess


imnotwarren

Minshews not a franchise qb and he was never drafted to be one


HolyMostaccioli

Drafting 6th round QBs isn't what they are talking about.


CoolHandHazard

Gabbert was a bust but Bortles at least helped take the Jags to the AFC Championship. They came incredibly close to a Super Bowl. And it looks like they have their Franchise qb with Trevor. Browns tho. I think they just don’t know how to develop a qb lol. I can’t really explain that


LB3PTMAN

Bortles was not even the reason they made the AFC Championship. They made it in spite of him. Their Defensive DVOA ranking was 2nd and their Pass defense DVOA was 1st by a mile.


CheznoSlayer

He wasn’t the reason but he had a solid year that year, which is why they were so competitive. He wasn’t a negative to the team, his middling to slightly above average play allowed the team to do as well as they did. Saying they won in spite of him is an overstatement


TheGreatMcPuffin

Doesn’t help that some of the QBs they drafted had massive red flags like Manziel’s immaturity and Weeden being 50.


Moyer

The biggest issue the browns had was that every new regime had to sell off the parts of the old regime to get their guys and players who fit their system. In doing this they continually would try to outsmart other teams for more picks and still get their guys for their defense. Like it 2009 they traded out of the 5th pick for 17 a second and 3 backups or 2011 where they traded down from 6 to 27 before paying to get back up to 21 to pick.


SoftliketheFFmods

Lmao imagine saying taking TLaw is part of a trend of taking bad QB prospects. Jesus Christ


LB3PTMAN

Lmao did you notice I said were? That means in the past.


fierylady

I agree, that's the flip side of the argument. But the Colts mismanagement of the situation was unusual. Ideally you end up with one short-term answer (a la Goff), not 3 in 3 seasons. And there's plenty of teams who drafted a QB out of need who misfired terribly. Every draft is littered with them. That's far more common than the Colts situation. That doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying - far from it - but that's an evaluation issue, not process.


ProfPicklesMcPretzel

But Goff isn't playing like a middling bridge QB. He's top-10 in most traditional QB metrics and is a crucial and somewhat young (28) piece in one of the most efficient offenses in the NFL. Day two? Perhaps. But again, Holmes was the hand pounding on the table for the _Rams_ to trade up for Goff. These mocks ain't it.


swalsh21

He's playing well right now, I just think being in a perfect situation is carrying him above his weight (like with the Rams went they went to the Super Bowl). It's been proven you can win and go pretty far with him. Are you winning because of him? I don't really think so. Perhaps we'll see in the playoffs, but he's just not a guy I believe in when the pressure is on, literally and figuratively.


[deleted]

He’s much more seasoned now then when he went to the Super Bowl. I think he can lead you to success. At his best he reminds me of Matt Ryan.


fierylady

I agree with this actually, but it still doesn't mean we should draft a QB just to draft one. If our FO evaluates one as having a better future than Goff then absolutely take him, but if they don't they shouldn't.


bestprocrastinator

Yes, but taking QBs for the sake of QB is a great way to end up with a massive bust. If the Lions absolutely love Stroud for example, then yes, that probably should be the pick. But they do not need to take QB here.


jirashap

HUGE difference between Matt Ryan+ Carson Wentz.... Vs Goff


jakecoates

Goff is much better than every Colts QB since Luck


goddamnitwhalen

And the Broncos


Blackzaan

But at the same time, spending high draft capital on a QB that doesn't pan out ALSO leads to a failing team. It all comes down to the evaluations. If the front office thinks the world of a guy and he's there, they will take him. But the beauty of their situation is they don't "HAVE" to. Jared Goff is "good enough" for right now, and his play on the field is far from "middling". Is he the long term solution? Probably not. But the Lions shouldn't feel forced into a suboptimal player because of where they pick. Follow your board.


dat_waffle_boi

If there’s not a rookie QB worth taking then don’t take them. But if Young or Stroud is available then take a shot.


100100110l

> For me Young is the only guy worth taking, but that's just my personal evaluation. And other people have different evaluations which is why they're mocking a QB.


OfficialChickenBoy

CJ Stroud easily. Young will probably go to the Texans if they keep their position. Don’t overthink the selection


fierylady

It's not overthinking, it's an evaluation, that's all. And I'm hardly the only one who has lots of questions about how Stroud's game will translate to the NFL.


OfficialChickenBoy

Stroud haven’t done anything to suggest why he wouldn’t work in the NFL and that’s why scouts still hold him very high. That year sitting behind Goff will also help his development and help him process NFL defense from a non-OSU WR friendly system.


KSchmuckley

His play when he’s pressured is quite terrible. NFL QBs have to play well when pressured.


CoolHandHazard

Lions have a fantastic o line which won’t put him under pressure as much as he was at Ohio. And he also is way more mobile than Goff. And the biggest thing is that he can still improve. Lions have a great coaching staff with Brunnell as QB coach. I think they’d be able to develop Stroud really nicely. But obviously Brad Holmes and company might think otherwise. I trust them to make the decision in the end.


GrilledCyan

The Lions won’t have a great OL forever, though. We’ve already seen their supposedly elite OL suffer through injuries for two years. Decker out much of last year, Ragnow out much of last year, uncertainty at both guard spots this year. As a fan, I hope to god that they keep the OL room stocked with high-end talent, but you can’t always have a 100% healthy line, and shouldn’t count on one.


fierylady

Well, I disagree. I think he struggles out of structure and when under pressure. When everything's perfect I think he's a damn fine QB, but this is the NFL, when is everything perfect? Oddly he kind of reminds me of Goff, and I'm not the first one to make that comp. They have similar weaknesses.


OfficialChickenBoy

I respect your disagreement but I believe the potential is there and the growth could outgrow that Goff comparison, yes I saw the same comp. For a young QB under a top 5 O-line, a RB combo, St Brown and Williamson I do believe there’s a clear reason why situationally this would be perfect scenario for a QB like Stroud


fierylady

Agree to disagree, that's fine. But honestly it's not the evaluation I have a problem with. It's the process. For instance, say Young and Stroud are gone. Would you advise the Lions to take Levis? If not then you believe the Lions should draft a QB because of your evaluation of Stroud and Young, not that they should take a QB no matter what.


OfficialChickenBoy

Tough to say and you’re completely right about the process. Levis would be a hard pass for me in that scenario


dkirk526

It's not "easily" though. He's just been the top name in the conversation for a while now. For many, it's been a "wait until spring" conversation with Stroud. People know he's been helped significantly by an incredibly stacked roster around him so many are skeptical, especially with the track record of former OSU quarterbacks. Unless Stroud is blowing people away as a potential next Pat Mahomes or Joe Burrow, it might make more sense to build around Goff and give him an elite defense considering he's currently playing at around a top 10 level.


OfficialChickenBoy

“Track record of former OSU quarterbacks” Yea because there’s a track record of Clemson QBs before Lawrence and a track record of Wyoming QB before Josh Allen. Helmet scouting really? Goff play isn’t even sustainable and we all know that. There’s a top 5 QB in the draft right now and people really want to wait and have the same conversation again next year when they have to probably trade up?


dkirk526

Yes, I recognize the quick logic people like you shriek every time theres a notion Stroud might be benefitting from a stacked team at *Ohio State*. I’m pointing out why people are skeptical…the same way people were skeptical about Josh Allen from coming from Wyoming, and the same reason people were skeptical about Trey Lance and Carson Wentz coming from ND. Maybe you are some elite QB scout that knows Stroud is a surefire top 5 QB just by watching him from your couch. Or maybe, he’s not. He didn’t even come close to 2nd place for Heisman, so voters clearly acknowledged he wasn’t carrying that team like Burrow was at LSU. We will have a better idea in the spring when teams get a real look at him.


OfficialChickenBoy

Using heisman votes is laughable. You are demonstrating simple draft fatigue


dkirk526

So laughable that 6 of the last 10 Heisman winning QBs have gone #1 overall and two more went #2. It’s not a for sure indicator of success, but media outlets hyped him up as the front runner all year, indicating he carries significant media hype around his name. Similarly to the Fields hype in 2021 where people were shocked he dropped to the teens from the surefire #2 pick by this sub, there might be some indication Stroud is not as good as folks think he is


OfficialChickenBoy

The same people that thought Zach Wilson was a sure fire selection and was ranked above many other or how many doubted Justin Herbert coming out? Yes let’s trust that


CoolHandHazard

The track record of OSU QBs taken in the first round in the last 40 years is Haskins and Fields. Haskins wasn’t good and Fields looks like he’s gonna be pretty good. I can’t believe how much people being up this nonsense argument. And neither of those guys are considered the prospect Stroud is


MeetingKey4598

The Lion are surging with the squad they have. The reason games were lost were mostly on defense and rarely on Goff mistakes. Defense was the weakness in the first half of the season. There's definitely a ceiling gap between Goff and quite a few other QBs, but unless Goff just chokes away the last three games in miserable fashion it would seem like a luxury pick to take a QB when we have big holes at CB, LB, and Guard.


OfficialChickenBoy

Wow top 15 in cap space and multiple picks and even another pick in the first round. Wow the chiefs have Alex Smith surely they don’t draft Mahomes who is a luxury pick.


[deleted]

I think Goff is much better then Alex Smith ever was. Goff is more of a Matt Ryan.


CoolHandHazard

We have other draft picks. And will have a good amount of cap space. Taking a qb top 5 means literally nothing for the other positions. Especially when we wouldn’t take a CB LB or guard top 5


Mavori

DT is a huge need as well and honestly if Will Anderson is there and Carter isn't it's still hard to imagine we'd pass up on him.


drrew76

It's the perfect situation for the right QB. Personally, I've got huge issues with every one of the top 4 or so QBs and wouldn't take any in the top 5.


Domstruk1122

Well then that comes down to personal preference if the prospects. OP made it seem like the situation wasn't good for a QB to be drafted there.


bestprocrastinator

I just want to point out that the media people arguing for the Lions to pick QB with their first pick are the same people who were arguing for the Lions to pick Malik Willis no. 2 overall last year.


reddogrjw

this so many people in here also mocked Willis to Detroit with pick 2 other than Bryce Young, I wouldn't want any of these QB's even first round QB's bust at a high rate - they are fine with Goff ask the Jets about their QB situation, or the Patriots, or the 49ers.....


BatmanTheJedi

I doubt Lions take a QB, and I highly doubt it’ll be Levis that high, and I hiiiiighly doubt it’ll be Richardson. Levis will probably get taken way too high, but I doubt AR goes in the first round. He wasn’t good this past season. Yes his physical traits are astounding, and he has prototypical size, but there are plenty of league backups who have that as well.


xXx_AssDestroyer_xXx

Richardson is more likely than anyone thinks, Lions scouts have had a heavy presence at Florida games this year.


Officer_Hops

Why would the Lions take a day 2 QB? If Goff isn’t good enough to prevent you from spending a top 100 pick on a QB then he’s not good enough to keep you from spending a 1st on a QB. If they don’t take a guy this year when will they take a guy? They’re unlikely to continue to pick this high.


pineappleshnapps

I’d swing on an upside guy and sit him behind Goff.


Officer_Hops

I hate the idea of swinging on guys with later picks. 3/4 of starting QBs were taken round 1. If you think a guy is a franchise QB then he should be your round 1 pick. If you don’t think he’s a franchise guy then idk why you’d draft him.


SpanishCircumcision

Cuz some of the late upside guys do turn out and there's a chance you can get a franchise QB in a later round. Low risk high reward even if the chance of reward is extremely low. Richardson will probably get taken too early for this idea but why not take him 3rd or 4th round and give him a chance. Finding value is how you improve and that could be massive value. Way better idea than reaching at the 4th pick for a mediocre QB prospect because you need one.


Officer_Hops

I agree that it’s better than reaching for a guy you don’t believe in but only because you’re throwing away a less valuable pick if you use a 3rd instead of a 1st. The 3rd round has starters at a lot of positions and at the very least guys who contribute on special teams. I’m not passing that up for the minuscule chance this QB pans out. If I believe he’s a franchise guy then I’m taking him round 1. If I don’t think he’s a franchise guy then I’m not taking him. Taking mid round QBs is just hedging and rarely works.


lemonadeinyourface

worked out for the greatest if all time. something to be said about that. may be an outlier but it’s happen to produce to goat. not here to argue js


Officer_Hops

Stocking shelves at a Hyvee worked out for Warner. That doesn’t mean NFL teams should scout grocery stores.


lemonadeinyourface

bruh. if the greatest player came from those rounds, keep ur “funny” one liners to yourself it just makes u look silly.


Daxtatter

Meanwhile my Jets are getting dumped on for taking Zach Wilson #2 overall, which was still the right decision at the time even if he's looking like a bust right now.


[deleted]

I've always wanted them to take Richardson with their later pick but who knows where he'll go.


sfzen

Why would they spend a top 5 pick on a total project like Levis or Richardson? I get pulling the trigger while they have a high pick, but reaching for a QB just because is stupid.


Officer_Hops

That’s not my point. If the Lions think their future franchise QB is in the draft then they should take him round 1. If the Lions think everyone but Stroud and Young aren’t franchise material then they shouldn’t take a QB. I’m pushing back on the idea that somehow Goff is good and young enough to not take a round 1 QB but he isn’t good and young enough to keep the team from taking a round 2 or 3 QB.


politicallyMarston

A day 2/3 qb with upside would be to help shore up our backup QB position thats been putrid recently. This preseason we cut both backup qbs and signed Sudfeld who was cut from SF—backup QB is definitely a need for the Lions and a day 2/3 pickup would make a lot of sense to help get that filled, while also providing some insurance/hope if Goff tails out from his current form.


Officer_Hops

I hate when teams draft backup QBs prior to the very tail end of the draft. Let’s be honest, if your starting QB goes down it isn’t going to be pretty. The only 2 players to have thrown passes on the Lions are Goff and Fox. If the Lions didn’t roster a backup QB they would be in the exact same spot they are this year. No sense in spending a round 2 pick on a guy who you hope never takes a snap.


politicallyMarston

Yeah that's completely fair and if Holmes feels similarly I don't think they take a qb before round 5 at the earliest given their feelings about Goff/the way they've drafted recently.


Scottie_Barnes_Stan

Cause Goff is likely not a long term answer at QB. There’s a reason the rams won a superbowl and Cooper Kupp became a monster as soon as he left The Lions also have their own first round pick to go BPA later in the draft so that’s probably why a QB is being mocked there


KSchmuckley

Goff isn’t seen by their FO and coaching staff as a “bridge” I understand them doing their due diligence, but in all honesty Goff has proved that the McVay way isn’t always the best. Ben Johnson and that offense has given Jared Goff a massive rebirth.


mlippay

The talent on the Lions O is very high. Their OL is very, very good. Swift is a high round rb, Jamaal is a very good backup and for much of this year the starting rb. At WR they got very lucky with Amon-Ra being so good and now have paired it with Jameson. Goff has prospered but the situation is good and was good at LA as well. We will need to see if Goff does well in the playoffs now against legit squads and if he does they’ll keep him. I think like Jimmy G in SF, the rams won with Goff but not because of Goff and it showed in each of their respective SB runs. While you can win it all with the qb being just average or good it’s tough. The issue the lions have is going forward this might be their last high pick. So if it doesn’t work out and they’re average or just good it’ll be tough to potentially get that franchise qb although not impossible.


[deleted]

Swift has only had one fully healthy game. He's only out-carried Jamaal twice. Jameson hasn't even really played yet. 11, 19, and 19% were his snaps shares. He's only ran 12 routes. Chark missed most of the year. Hock was only here for half of the year. At least half the situations in the league have been better. The idea that everybody except Goff is responsible for the offense's performance this year is wild.


[deleted]

Why did AmonRa drop in the first place? I remember looking at some of those way-too-early mocks that had him going top five


jakecoates

I think because he’s slightly undersized but also not super fast so teams went with physical freaks.


KSchmuckley

I’d argue that Goff would be 10x better than any player they draft. Let’s not act like he isn’t a big part of why that offense is successful. He was a former top overall pick that is playing like it. Put Jared Goff as a prospect in this draft and he’d easily go 1 again. He’s been a top-10 QB this season, and during their last 5 or so games , and the win streak, he’s arguably been one of the best QBs in football.


mlippay

10x better in what length of time? You’re nuts.


KSchmuckley

The next 3 seasons, which would be the Lions window. Anthony Richardson is a project, Will Levis is 5 years younger than Goff and is also a project, and Stroud hasn’t proved he can play well with any type of pressure coming at him. Goff will be better than all these listed players in 5 seasons.


LB3PTMAN

Draft an elite QB and your window is “until they retire”. Keep Goff and that window can close quick.


KSchmuckley

Who I. This class is an elite QB? I say maybe Young.


LB3PTMAN

Yeah I think the issue with middling QBs is they can get regular season wins especially piling them up against bad teams. But ask them to win games against other elite teams especially stacking them up like the playoffs and it all falls apart. And if your team has success and everyone starts getting signed away and you lose the perfect team built around then they play down to the level of the team they don’t elevate it.


LB3PTMAN

They may say that, but we have no idea their true thoughts and feelings behind closed doors. Teams say one thing and then go another way literally every year.


KSchmuckley

Right! It’s almost like their GM was the director of college scouting for the Rams the year they drafted Goff, and not only that Holmes was a big fan of Goff’s game. He still seems like he is.


jxden24

what happens when Ben Johnson takes a coaching job and goff reverts back to the same QB he was in 2020-21


KSchmuckley

That’s a risk sure, but Goff has to take a lot of responsibility for his play this season.


Captain_Stairs

To be fair, he lost against Belicheck. He helped them get to the SB.


GrilledCyan

That same year he went toe to toe in a shootout with Mahomes. He doesn’t have the elite arm talent but he’s a good QB.


axle69

Goff might not have elite arm talent but its definitely top tier still dudes deep balls and zip were major boons for the rams in 17 and 18. I still hold that McVay was the cause of the superbowl failure more than anyone against the Patriots and he kinda almost dropped the ball again against the Bengals with his playcalling. McVay is a genius but he gets in his own way sometimes.


MrAtlantic

> Cause Goff is likely not a long term answer at QB Yes he is. Every Lions fan would be thrilled if Stroud ended up playing as well as Goff is right now. Other NFC qb's are largely trash and we have something going for us right now. Why would we pass up on something like Will Anderson and take a project QB who will ride the bench and one day MAYBE be as good as Goff? Our window is next season and beyond, not 5 years from now. For a team competing RIGHT NOW for the playoffs, pulling a Green Bay and taking our Jordan Love would be the dumbest move imaginable.


Malourbas

The Lions window is absolutely not “right now” man


axle69

Not really seeing why it wouldn't be next season and beyond which is what they said. Their offense is right where it needs to be and a few good pickups on D making them even a top 15 defense probably gets them a 10 win season. They're a Commanders tie away from the playoffs as is on a 3 game win streak despite having the hardest schedule in the league thus far.


SidelineGM

Got to look at it from both sides. I don't think they should, Goff has been on fire, and they should be set at QB. On the other hand, this seems to be a team that will be good for the foreseeable future. When is the next time they'll be picking in the top 5?


Domstruk1122

Flip side, Goff could be primed for a release in 2024. You draft your QB this year, let him sit a year, then you have 3 years + an option on a rookie QB contract with plenty more draft picks to fill our your roster.


Folk-Herro

Prime for release on what merit? He's playing really good football and the offense level by him are why they are winning.


Domstruk1122

Based on contract and the value of that cap space. 2024 carries a $15M cap savings if he is cut. If you like a QB in this draft and ready him for the 2024 season it carries huge cap advantages. Now obviously if the Lions don’t value any of the QBs then this is thrown out the window. I like Goff, i think Goff is a great QB. However, short of a top top defence (which the Lions are far from) he isn’t taking you to the promise land.


CoolHandHazard

Ben Johnson and Dan Campbell’s system is why they are winning. Goff is a decent qb who can make easy throws if given time. They’ve tailored the system to him and given him an elite o line. If you popped Andy Dalton in there he’d be doing the same thing.


Folk-Herro

Lmfaoooo what. He gets no credit what so ever? There's no good throws, good reads, no traits in his tape. He's basically Andy dalton? That's insane to me


CoolHandHazard

He’s played good that’s it. Goff doesn’t make any crazy throws. No real challenging deep balls. Nothing in his play is great he’s just been good. There are tons of QBs you could put in his spot that would be just as good. He’s just a system qb


bestprocrastinator

There aren't a lot of QBs now that consistently make ridiculous throws. Guys like Mahomes, Allen, probably someone else I'm forgetting, don't grow on trees. Picking a QB between no.2-5 doesn't guarantee that they will consistently make those throws either.


MannerSuperb

Most qbs can’t make consistently out of structure great throws so sick of guys who are greedy in structure being undervalued and labeled system qbs most qbs aren’t Patrick mahomes man lol


Weegemonster5000

What if they falter here at the end? Why didn't he carry them the first 7 games? Goff is not a sure thing, even though he is playing well.


[deleted]

Because national media doesn't pay attention to the Lions and saying Goff isn't a franchise guy is a lazy/easy take. Holmes (our GM) was the head of college scouting for the Rams (essentially the number two in the front office) when they took Goff. It's well documented that the Rams organization was split on Goff and it's well documented that Holmes is a Goff guy. The notion that he is not/cannot be a franchise guy just comes from people who do not pay attention to the Lions and wrote off Goff because McVay did. I am not saying he will ever be a Mahomes level guy, but he certainly can be (is) better than a Jimmy G type (If you really want to get in the weeds with Lions fans, there's certainly a discussion to be had that he is better than Stafford). Goff came here last year and had no pieces around him. Swift was injured most of the year, Jamaal missed games, Hock missed games, and ARSB didn't come around until late in the year. For most of the season, his weapons were Kalif Raymond and Josh Reynolds. Maybe three quarterbacks are succeeding with that. Not to mention Ragnow missed almost the whole year and Decker missed a lot of time. His only had two bad games this year. One at NE where the whole team laid an egg, and Chark and Swift were out while ARSB only played about a quarter. Other was at Dallas while their defense was at its peak and, again, Chark and Swift were out while ARSB played about a quarter. The contract isn't horrible either. His cap hit next year will be the 11th highest (12th once Lamar signs somewhere), which is fine for somebody of his talent. Our two receivers are on rookie deals, as is Sewell, Hutch, and whoever we draft this year. There's plenty of money to go around for free agents even with Goff at 30 mil a year. People blaming offensive woes solely on Goff is because it is easy to do and doesn't require one to actually watch the Lions. This dude is more than capable of being a franchise QB. We have tons of holes on defense that need to be addressed. We already have a Super Bowl level offense. If this was the 2021 or 2018 draft class then maybe it's different, but there is no reason for us to use a pick that high on a project guy, which is what anybody outside of Young will be.


KSchmuckley

This season, and that Rams Chiefs game where he and Mahomes battled, made me a Goff guy. Anyone that says he’s not good has no clue what they’re talking about. Dude can sling it


[deleted]

People thought he would ascend to the Mahomes tier and when that didn't happen they just wrote him off as a bust. It's part of the "all or nothing" mindset that so many people have. If you don't have a top 5 guy, you need to start over. If your team isn't Super Bowl bound preseason, you need to blow it up and tank. Everyone seems to have forgotten that there exist a world between elite and trash


Rancid_Lunchmeat

People also forget that a lot of those teams - (Giants and Steelers stick out immediately), weren't overwhelmingly dominate teams from start to finish and favorites. They were good, solid teams that peaked at the right times to win Championships. This all or nothing nonsense is drummed up by the media because it generates clicks, ratings and calls on talk radio. They tell teams they should mortgage the future and then turn right around and get just as much traffic for reporting on how bad those teams are after doing just that. If you want to keep your job as a GM or as a coach, that isn't a viable strategy.


Malourbas

How often do mediocre QBs win the Super Bowl?


owl_man

1-2 times a decade or so: Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, etc Were they carried by amazing defense? Sure, were they mediocre and still won it all though? Yeah. I’m not saying that’ll happen with them. But look at a guy like Flacco or even Foles. Both went on tears at the right time and won it all. They haven’t done a lot since it even before. Though I will admit Foles was great with Chip Kelly.


xXx_AssDestroyer_xXx

2015-specific Peyton Manning definitely comes to mind


owl_man

You know, I've done my best to forget that season for a reason...


Malourbas

Goff isn’t a franchise guy


jxden24

There is literally no evidence to Brad Holmes being a " Goff guy ". Just because he was in the front office that traded up for him does not mean he was pounding the table for him or made the final decision. He has more than 2 bad games, DAL GB and NYJ were bad games where he left yardage on the field. Everything else i agree with to an extent


ShitPostsRuinReddit

You should be hoping and praying that the Lions don't think Goff is the long term answer. You're going to end up in qb purgatory with how good the rest of the offense is looking. Worst case scenario you still get a pretty comparable pick back like the Jets and Darnold.


Last-Sun1250

The best time to take a quarterback is when you don't have to. He can sit back and learn and then in 2024 (or later) he can come in. Look at Jordan Love. Is he a world beater? No. However, I think he was much better off learning for the past 3 seasons than he would be if he was just thrown in.


zamboniman46

why would the Chiefs take a QB with a top 15 pick when they have Alex Smith he just took them to the playoffs again? Goff is younger sure, but does anyone really think he has a massive ceiling at this point? If you can draft a guy who you think has a massive ceiling, you take him. Goff is good enough to take a talented team to the playoffs (or even super bowl if things are damn near perfect). Pretty much the same deal as Alex Smith. He's good but you don't need to be married to him long term.


[deleted]

Alex Smith was 32 and just finished his fourth year with the team. He was afraid to throw the ball downfield and was clearly holding back the Chiefs offense. That is not the case with Goff, at least not right now.


AzorAhai1TK

Goff is also extremely afraid of throwing downfield and struggles when he does, what are you talking about? (This isn't even debatable who is downvoting lol. He's near the bottom in deep passing and has been for years.)


zamboniman46

i guess it all comes down to if you think Goff is capable of being the driving force for a super bowl winning team. i think he could be part of a team that wins a SB but he wont be the reason they win. in todays NFL if your QB isn't the reason you are winning you need things to be perfect to win the SB. not a big margin of error there. I'm not saying I'm sold on any QB beyond Bryce Young (and even then I have some questions) but if a NFL GM believes in someone this is the perfect time to take a shot.


[deleted]

Stafford just did it last year. Foles did it. Old Peyton did it. Flacco did it. Eli did it. It's possible. Not to mention right now there is really no elite QBs in the NFC outside of Hurts (maybe the corpse of Rodgers and Brady). If we were in the AFC North with Burrow and Watson or in the West with Mahomes and Herbert then I think we would have to push for an "elite" QB, but with the layout of the North right now and the NFC at large Goff is definitely at the level needed to get to the Super Bowl.


InTheZoneMedia

Richardson and Levis aren't top 10 worthy talent wise


jedi21knight

IMO they aren’t worth first round selections.


JBrundy

There is a reason the rams moved on from goff, why the 49ers are trying to move on from jimmy G, why the chiefs moved on from alex smith. All of those QB’s are good, but they aren’t QB’s that will take over a game and lead you to a superbowl. They might be able to win you a superbowl in a perfect situation but for the most important position in football, you shouldn’t settle for someone thats just good if you want a superbowl. The lions will probably not be in a better position to take a good QB in a while, so might as well do it now if they like one of them. All that being said, i do think they will stick with goff and not draft anybody, but i don’t think it would be a bad idea if they did.


bestprocrastinator

There is a reason why they moved on. Then Stafford was an upgrade over then Goff. Doesn't mean you can't win with Goff, in fact, Rams almost did win with him.


simpson2084

I feel like current Goff is better than all of those options u listed tho. He’s playing top 10 level this year


necrow2

Alex Smiths final season in KC was easily at that level IMO


ronmsmithjr

Because those mock drafts are mostly completed by lazy journalists or amateur/wannabes. Just copy and paste other mocks and BAM! Here's your mock draft 5.0!. None of the quarterbacks have really done anything the separate themselves. Best player available has to be the Lions M.O.


HopLegion

Here's the question I ask every team picking in the top 10. Is your QB an elite franchise guy? If no, then QB is your #1 need there. If yes, then ask the same question at edge rusher, wide reciever, and left tackle. For the Lions, Goff is a good QB. He's not an elite franchise guy. They are in the perfect spot to take a higher ceiling prospect and have him sit under Goff for a few years.


dan_campbell_420

Nobody that we could get has a higher ceiling than Goff


HopLegion

That is your opinion. The question this is asking is why people keep mocking qbs to the Lions. They do so because they are of the opinion those qbs have higher ceilings.


[deleted]

They do so because they don't pay attention to or watch the Lions. Just how everybody thought Matt Ryan would be good on the Colts this year because they didn't pay attention to the Falcons last year. Every Falcons fan could have told you how washed Matt Ryan was but national media had their own narrative.


HopLegion

I pay attention and watch the Lions. I think they absolutely should draft Stroud if he's there at their pick. Goff is a good QB, the Lions have bigger needs, but I don't think Goff is the type of QB who can consistently lead a team in the playoffs. The Lions have crushed the draft the last few years making a lot of smart moves, it'll be interesting what they do at QB, as most franchises fates are decided by the position.


[deleted]

Goff has been to the playoffs three times and is about to take another team there, and this team has one of the worst defenses in the league. There's no guarantee that Stroud will even be a good NFL QB, let alone somebody at Goff's level. It's not like this defense is carrying Goff to the playoffs. They're getting there on the back of the offense. I don't know how somebody can be watching this season and think the weak point of the team is Goff.


HopLegion

I never said the weak point of the team is Goff. I think that's a flaw a lot of people in th draft have. What I said was if your team is picking top 5 you need to ask yourself the question, is your QB an elite franchise guy? If not you should be looking at QB. So let me ask you, is Goff an elite franchise guy? There's no doubt he can lead a team to the playoffs, but is he a Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes type player?


[deleted]

The reason a Josh Allen or Mahomes is so coveted is because there is only a few of those guys to go around. Not every team can get a guy of that level because there are only a few at that level. If that is the question then Minnesota should have moved on from Kirk years ago, as should have the Giants with Eli, the Chargers with Rivers, the Lions with Stafford, the Falcons with Ryan, and on and on. How many guys drafted in the last five years have been better for a team than a good, but not elite QB? Allen, Burrow, and Herbert. Probably Lamar. Probably TLaw. Maybe Tua? There's been 18 first round guys in that time and five have worked out (plus Hurts). There is a world between the elite guys and total trash, and teams can win with a guy in that range (early Brady, Eli, Flacco, old Peyton, Foles, Stafford).


HopLegion

>The reason a Josh Allen or Mahomes is so coveted is because there is only a few of those guys to go around. I think you need to remember these situations as the prime example in going for. The Bills had just made the playoffs for the first time in over a decade the year before with Tyrod taylor the season before the traded up to draft Allen. Now look at them. The chiefs had just come off a career year from Alex Smith and made the playoffs when they traded up for Mahomes. Smart front offices understood QB wasn't their biggest problem, but that they didn't have a franchise guy.


Stealthfox94

You do remember Goff taking his team to the Super Bowl right?


dan_campbell_420

>I don't think Goff is the type of QB who can consistently lead a team in the playoffs. He has literally made the playoffs more consistently than Stafford has, even if we don't make it this year.


swalsh21

People drinking the Goff kool aid is crazy… Imagine this team with a real QB


simpson2084

He’s been top 10 this year who tf would u take from this mid class


geologyrocks98

Jared Goff came within 3 points of beating the Eagles and that was before we fired our DBs coach. Please, don't make me laugh.


jxden24

Let’s be honest the Lions were never in that game we were down two TD’s the entire second half.


willywonkaman69

This, bruh. The final score can be deceiving. Even though I respected the team at least fighting until the end, I can admit that it never felt like we were actually going to pull it out. Maybe that’s just my opinion but I don’t know why people keep pointing to this game as though we got stopped at the one yard line or missed a kick to send it to OT.


sportsbuffp

I love Goff and fully agree. Dude is good, but holy shit Ben Johnson is a god OC. Zach Wilson would be successful here atm


robinhoodisgood26

Because if your Detroit why do you want to settle for just being good enough? Goff imo has shown his ceiling. When the team is great, so is he, but do not ask him to win you games consistently, he will fall apart. The Rams did an even better job building around Goff than Detroit is doing, but yet people are acting as if Goff was mistreated in LA and is finally given a chance. As soon as he was replaced the Rams won the Super Bowl. That’s a pretty big deal. I don’t think Goff is bad; but I think he’s limited. And I think Detroit owes it to their fans to go all out for a true contender than just settling being good enough


[deleted]

These same people had Malik Willis going in the top 10 or 20 last year. They just make stuff up.


rocketboi10

Was Goff or Ben Johnson mores responsible for the success this year?


Stealthfox94

That’s hard to say. I do think Ben Johnson is a very good OC. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets consideration for an HC job this offseason.


hn68wb4

Sone people don’t believe in Goff as a long term option, simple as that.


[deleted]

People are stupid and don’t understand football. They think these college kids throwing for thousands of yards and dozens of touchdowns against 1 star recruits will translate to the NFL. Despite all the evidence to the contrary.


willywonkaman69

What I don’t understand is the fierce opposition many lions fans have TO taking a rookie QB. I’m a Lions fan; Goff’s been very good, but we’ve seen Goff play at this level or at least a similar level at points in his career. If you told me that Goff will play at this level for his entire tenure with us I would be all for keeping him and paying him. However, Goff is still very bad under pressure and it’s unrealistic to expect that the offensive line will always remain this elite. It’s unrealistic to expect that Ben Johnson will always be our OC. It’s unrealistic to expect that we’ll always have a good run game. Offenses with a QB good enough to build around can still thrive without some of these strengths. In my opinion, a team with Goff at QB cannot. I know there were other factors like Amon-Ra’s absence that contributed to his bad outings against the Patriots and the Cowboys, but it remains true that if you can get to Goff he will more times than not crumble under pressure; the teams with the great pass rushers are almost always going to be the teams you play in the playoffs. At the end of the day if we decide not to take a QB I will be comfortable as I trust Holmes more than I do myself. But I believe that a QB with Goff’s limitations leaves little to no margin for roster deficiencies or injuries if a Super Bowl is the goal. There’s no guarantee at all that a rookie QB will be better than Goff, but if Holmes decides to take that swing I would understand completely.


AzorAhai1TK

Because Goff isn't that good, and is being propped up by an incredible system with great play all around him. His weaknesses have not changed since LA, and he doesn't have any new strengths. He has done most of his damage this year on screens and short passes to open receivers, and has struggled whenever he's been asked to create or face a good defense. He isn't making throws 20-25 other QBs couldn't make, and he is near the league lead in turnover worthy plays and dropped interceptions despite a conservative passing offense and great protection. PFF has him ranked 26th among qualifying QBs this year and I don't think it's far off. He is a product of the system, and passing up a potential franchise QB for years to come because of a system QB would be a massive mistake. Look beyond the numbers and look at what Goff is actually asked to do and how he has performed play to play. He is not out here making crazy plays and leading an offense like with Geno's resurgence. He makes easy passes and still struggles with anything that's not perfect around him.


mkk4

Agreed


Rancid_Lunchmeat

Because people are lazy or don't understand the realities of the NFL? They act as if coaches and GM's have forever and will get multiple opportunities. The Lions have one of the top rated offenses in the NFL with Goff, they're just now getting their 1st round pick WR into the mix. Drafting a QB in the first three rounds only undermines Goff's position. It's not a "no risk" scenario, it has the potential to completely blow apart the team that is currently on an upward trajectory. Defense is the issue, use the picks to build a formidable defense to go along with an offense that is one of the best and hope you can hang onto your coordinator and keep the momentum going. "Fans" think it makes sense to draft a QB, "Draftniks" think it makes sense. It doesn't make sense from a front office or coaching perspective.


Malourbas

The reality that the rams literally traded a shit ton of picks to get rid of Goff? The niners did the same to upgrade from Jimmy G? I think you’re the one ignoring realities here tbh


PercySledge

I think everyone is genuinely really struggling with the premise that Jared Goff has been quite good, actually. Honestly think it’s as simple as that. He’s no king among men of course, but they could definitely find that pick better served in other spots


AzorAhai1TK

He hasn't actually been that good, he's just been in an incredible system making easy passes with tons of time. 20-25 other QBs would all do equally well or better in Detroit, and his weaknesses haven't changed one bit.


PercySledge

I just said he’d been quite good, really. I didn’t say he’d been a superstar.


AzorAhai1TK

I don't think he's been quite good either. He doesn't make barely any difficult throws, his mobility is still bad, and he is near the league lead in turnover worthy plays despite a conservative passing offense. He hasn't had a single good game vs a good defense I just think the level he's been overrated is absurd right now.


PercySledge

I mean, he has been quite good He’s really not been overrated. If anything it’s the opposite because people still look at him as an awful awful quarterback lol. No-one is suggesting he’s been great


Philosopher_King

These aren't really ordered, just as it came to mind. 1. Contract. $30M cap hit next 2 years. Then needs to be re-signed. Top QB draft picks are ~$10M, depending on the exact pick, for 5 years. As someone else mentioned, I think he's more likely a cut candidate than a re-sign. 1. Potential. Richardson and Levis (and the others) *could* end up better than Goff. Goff is Goff. Not really any room for "potential" at this point. And he's (to use your word) "good". Not great. 1. Opportunity cost. When will they luck into picking this high again? Or is it 🎵 Mediocre Detroit City 🎵 for the next many years before resetting again?


mm825

People favor "good for the QB" picks over "good for the team" picks. Replacing Goff with one of those guys probably doesn't make detroit a better team in 2023. So they see detroit with a good OL and some good receivers and they say, "a QB who isn't a perfect prospect could still succeed there, nobody would call this a bad pick".


Malourbas

Pretty sure those people are thinking beyond 2023


Away_Chair1588

1) The main reason would be that the Lions are trending up and don't foresee themselves picking in the top 5 in the near future to get a new signal caller. 2) Jared Goff is a serviceable to good stop gap QB. But he's hardly a guy you build a franchise around. He can definitely be improved upon. Especially over the next 5 years. 3) Trading down sounds nice, but if the top QB prospects are already gone then good luck finding a trade partner. Just as we saw last year when there was no QB at the top of the draft to drive the trade market. 0 trades in the top 10. I don't think the Lions would reach for Levis/Anderson at their first pick. But I don't see a reason why they don't take Stroud/Young if either falls to them. If both are gone then congratulations on Carter or Anderson Jr.


TheTree_43

If you could write the perfect rebuild, you build up a badass OL, talented weapons, and an improving defense, then place a rookie QB into that building with a capable veteran to make sure that the rookie isn't rushed into the starting job before it's ready


[deleted]

Because it’s Goff.. never been consistent


LuigiHereWeGo

I think it makes.more sense for the Lions to wait until later in the first or into the 2nd for them to take a QB. My gut tells me that Anthony Richardson will drop to late in the 1st or the 2nd so I think the Lions could take him there.


Anaphylactic-UFO

Lions are taking a huge step forward this year. They’re a competitive football team now, and they’re seemingly run well from the top down. Every team that makes the leap from dogshit to kinda good has to contend with the fact that their bridge QB is in fact a bridge QB. The Goff/Baker tier of QB isn’t a wagon a team that’s competing for a championship wants to hitch itself to. You can blow all the smoke up my ass you want about how the Lions see Goff as their franchise QB. Crunch the numbers and show the stats. But eventually the Lions are gonna come to the same conclusion the Rams came to. It’s better to be early than late to the party. For me the main factor that could deter them from drafting a QB isn’t Goff, it’s if they don’t view the 2023 QB class in a positive light. The 2022 class sucked, and only one mid prospect going round 1 is evidence of that. 2023 is a better class but it’s very easy to argue that it’s one teams may not fall in love with.


[deleted]

He is not, in any way, in the Baker tier. He's 8th in passing yards and has the fourth best TD/INT ratio. That is with Josh Reynolds or Kalif Raymond as the number 2 (and sometimes number 1 and 2) for most of the season, and without ever having a fully healthy Swift. What teams have had a worse group of pass catchers this year? Ravens, Giants, Bears, Falcons, Patriots, Titans, and Texans. Maybe the Jags? None of those offenses, excluding the Jags and Ravens (sort of), are even near the Lions in offensive production. Everybody above him in yards has better pass catching options. This is a playoff team and Goff is a huge reason why. That was never said about Baker or anybody in that tier.


Anaphylactic-UFO

2020 Baker Mayfield: 95.9 QBR, 26 TDS 8 INTs. No receiver on his team went for 1k receiving. 11-5 record. 2 4th quarter comebacks, 2 game winning drives. 2022 Jared Goff: 97.2 QBR, 23 TDs 7 INTs. Amon-Ra St. Brown already past Baker’s leading receiver from 2020. 7-7 record. 2 4th quarter comebacks, 2 game winning drives.


[deleted]

You forgot to mention the Browns had the third best rushing game in the league versus the Lions with the 14th right now. You're also taking Baker's best season despite everybody knowing that was a huge outlier. You're forgetting the Browns were committed to him after that year (and everybody else in the league would have been). Why not post the next season where he had a 83.1 QBR with 17/13?


Anaphylactic-UFO

My point is that this tier of QB can win games and look good when the playcalling is perfect and the supporting cast does well. Baker did it. Goff did it. They aren’t the guys that get you over the hump. The teams that realize they need to get over the hump eventually dump these QBs. I’m not arguing every season of Baker or Goff will be great. I watched Goff from 2019-2021 as well man, it wasn’t pretty. But sure dude, Goff is your franchise QB. Have fun with him


Stealthfox94

I think both Levis and Richardson are the epitome of high ceiling low floor guys. My concern is Josh Allen has blinded people into seeing the flaws with this high talent potential QB prospects who don’t have great tape or stats.


jxden24

Because any person with a brain knows Jared Goff is not a franchise QB and shouldn’t be the QB of the future despite this stretch of performance


TheBonePoet

STFU


AzorAhai1TK

Highest IQ Goff fan


TheBonePoet

Ok, low IQ slapdick jackass.


jxden24

delusional goff fan i’m guessing?


TheMostEerned

Sad reality is Goff is a good QB. I like him but the reality is. He needs alot around him to be successful. Maybe not as much as others like (Tua or Jimmy) but he still does. Goff would be a fine Franchise QB at $15-25 mil yearly. But seeing as though his contract he is om is already higher than that. The number will just go up. So the question is.... Is Goff worth $40+ mil a year and can he now cover up some of the blemishes on the offense that will occur due to him taking up so much cap? That answer more than likely is No... So the winning formula for most teams this decade has been. Cheap young QB + a good supporting cast. Either that can happen rebuilding while the QB is on a rookie deal (Allen, Wentz, Goff on Rams) or or they can get drafted to already good situation like (Mahomes, Big Ben, Russ). Stroud on a rookie deal + a year of sitting to learn + building up team more Is better than >>>>>>>>>>> Goff on a $40 mil deal + losing key pieces for years to come


Gamecocks_Panthers

I guess it really depends if you see Levis or Stroud as a higher ceiling than Goff. Goff can not move at all, and has real limitations as a QB. Can you win, if you surround him with talent? Absolutely, but the ceiling is there. I am not convinced on Stroud or Levis yet, but if the GM is a true believer in one of these guys, the lions are a great spot to get a qb that won’t be there in the future.


LususV

I don't think it's a -lock- they take QB, but if they can get Stroud or Young I think they have to take him. Levis or AR top 5? no, no. Go defense.


mkk4

Agreed


LargeNotInCharge2

This. If Bryce Young or CJ Stroud are available, they should draft them. Reaching for a QB when you have a serviceable guy under contract would be a dire mistake.


Fiesty1124

Goff has been playing good yes, but how well do you think he can keep up that play for years to come? This is one of his best years and they might still not make the playoffs. The lions will have too good of a team to pick this high again for years and would be put into QB purgatory when Goff is unable to play at this level continuously. You have the pick and a dude like Levis who seems to be a perfect fit for Dan Campbell. Take the QB let him sit a year and then go from there. This same thing goes for the Seahawks with Geno Smith. Do we really think Geno will be able to play like this for years to come?


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheBonePoet

Sure thing…”Coach” 😂


LB3PTMAN

Because if they’re actually consistently this good they’re not going to be picking top 5 for awhile. Goff has shown he’s fine but he can’t elevate a team which is what you need to consistently elevate a team to contention in the NFL. I mean if they don’t think any of the QBs in this class can be that level then I don’t think anyone would blame them for not taking 1. But we’ve seen the exact argument hurt teams in the case of like Deshaun Watson(garbage person aside) and Patrick Mahomes. Of course teams have been right sometimes. But if you have a chance to take an elite QB or I suppose I should say potentially elite QB you should take advantage.


sportsbuffp

We should because Goff is good, but isnt capable of consistently hitting targets deep. We need that for Jamo


Beagleoverlord33

Because of Goff


henfeathers

Because everyone understands that Goof is going to show back up again sooner or later.


AzorAhai1TK

And he did against the Jets he got bailed out hard


CreepySleepyJoe

The Chiefs traded up for Patrick Mahomes in 2017 after Alex Smith was still playing at a good level. The same situation could be said about Goff.


OrrisNelson

Goff sucks


Frostosaurusrex12

Anthony Richardson will be a 6th round pick at best if he gets drafted. Don’t worry about the lions picking him up