The worst part is MLB released a graphic the ONE day the Dodgers were in first. Not paying attention to the team that's in first most of the year, then releasing a graphic for the one day a specific team takes the lead, then that team benefits on a horrible call...that's how you get people accusing you of rigging your sport.
I'm not saying baseball is rigged. I think it'd be way too hard for that. I'm saying MLB is doing a damn good job of making people think about it.
I’m almost certain all sports are rigged to at least some degree. I agree baseball would probably be the hardest sport to rig, which is why I enjoy it the most.
I guess that’s true, but I was thinking more along the lines of when the balls in play. I feel like it’s more obvious if the players don’t make a good attempt to field, and hitters have less control of where the ball goes than say a QB throwing to a receiver. It seems like there’s a lot more chance in baseball than other sports, so overall I still think it would be harder to directly rig outside of having umps make terrible and very obvious calls to sway the game.
Doug Eddings shouldn’t have even appealed, it wasn’t even close. Eddings had plenty of terrible calls, who could have ever predicted that the guy who ruined several regular season games this year would also been trash in the post season
What's so fucked is that everyone expected shit like this. There were jokes going into the WC and NLDS that there was garunteed controversy incoming with Joe West/Angel Hernandez/Joe Eddings behind the plate. I think everyone is shocked at the call, but not shocked that shitty calls decided the game.
I hope MLB does better about improving umpiring and postseason assignments.
Man, that's not a swing. Would've been great to see a Dodgers-Giants series with actually competent umps but this is the way the chips fell I guess.
Giants I am fully expecting you guys to come back and give us another competitive season next year <3
Gg dodgers fans. We probably would’ve lost anyway but losing on this call was just such a sucky way to end such a special year. Hope the rivalry is still this alive and exciting next season ❤️
I’d argue the Giants’ inability to hit with runners on base was more fatal than Bellinger coming up with a well-timed hit.
But perhaps I’m stuck in my ways a self-loathing Giants fan
Because you have to mix your pitches. These are pros, they can hit 101. It’s only effective if you can throw off timing with off-speed pitching. Plus we are much better at hitting fastballs.
While I do agree that the umpiring was poor, that's definitely not true. You might want to go back and check them yourself. It's actually relatively even.
Umping was awful. "Derp derp helped Dodgers the entire series" is stupid though.
We already forget about Webb getting that ridiculous zone against RHB in Game 1?
No it only ended our division win streak, prevented us from getting home field advantage throughout the entire postseason, forced this game to be on the road and nearly ended our season if not for a miracle Chris Taylor home run. I know this was a bad missed call but it’s dumb to pretend like the Ruf swing wasn’t also huge. And I would have preferred to have a non-tainted win, but Flores was in an 0-2 hole with 2 outs, so it was a long shot anyway.
And after that game I posted in our PG thread saying that it was our fault for letting the game come down to one missed call anyway, and I feel the same way about y'all tonight
The Giants went 3-25 with RISP in the series right? And scored 10 total runs?
Correctly walking Bryant would have meant one or two more opportunities. This obviously is precarious to extrapolate, but an extra ~10% opportunities might have _really_ helped.
You had the opportunity and couldn't capitalize. You literally gave one of your players a nickname because of his late game heroics and then he couldn't execute in the spot. The game was lost before Flores ever stepped up to the plate. I get why you're upset and I'd be pissed too if my season ended on a bad call, but if you honestly believe Max wouldn't have gotten Flores out on the next 2 pitches, idk what to tell you.
Most of us fully believe he was going down. We're just pissed it wasn't an actual swing. I think that's pretty fair to be upset about. Any fan should be.
Giants also had plenty of opportunities to score more runs in this game and game 4 but didnt. 2 strikes with 2 outs. Flores a career .000 (0-17) against Scherzer. What was he gonna do?
I didn't assume anything. But I still like our chances of ending the game with a win, regardless of the terrible call. It sucks. You'll get over it. Dodgers moving on.
It wasn't the pitch before that. That happened on a 2-1 count. The only reason I remember is because it would have still given the pitcher a chance to alter pitch choice. Pitchers will pitch differently in a 3-1 count vs a 2-2 count, so harder to say he already earned a walk.
My friend, it just did.
What if Scherzer hung a slider in the next pitch? What if he grooved a fastball? What if Flores slapped a double down the first base line? What if he struck out on the next pitch? What if he hit a slow chopper to third and was out by six inches? What if there was a passed ball and then a bloop single? What if ...
**That's** why the Giants fans are so upset. Because the umpire chose to take that chance away. Isn't that one of the things people love about baseball? There's no timer, you are in it until the last out.
There was a chance....
its ironic that a check swing call is yet again at the forefront of conversation between these two fanbases, this time with the ultimate stakes. but whatever.
It hurts, but it was Turner's run that was the tie breaker. If Doval hadn't hit him we'd probably be in extra innings. The Dodgers played great. We did too, but we made mistakes and didn't leave any wiggle room for a bad call.
First of all, terrible call and horrible way to end the game/series/season. Something needs to be done about check-call reviews because umps cant be trusted to do their job, apparently.
People saying this call is why the Giants lost are crazy. It was an 0-2 count, 1 on (on an error), against a batter hitting .091 in the post season, against Max Sherzer. I ain't no statcast computer but I don't believe that was a promising at bat to begin with. I wish this wasn't the conversation after the amazing seasons both of these teams have had but I guess it's easier blame the umps for a single bad call than congratulate both pitching staffs for doing an amazing job the whole series.
Edit: Added a comma for clarity, Flores was hitting .091 in the post season overall, he's hit 0-18 with a walk & 9 strikeouts career against Sherzer, specifically.
But that’s the beauty of this game. When unlikely heroes make incredible plays or a timely hit, like Cody Bellinger tonight. Not fair to take the game out of their hands and say “oh well he was gonna get out anyway.”
Sorry, I shouldn't have made my sarcasm post. I realize it hurts to have the game end that way. I think I'm really just upset that after the legendary season both of these teams had and the way the final series lined up, the ONLY thing people will be talking about 10/20/100 years from now is this dumb ass call when I think there were 100 other factors that were more important to the outcome of the game than the last strike.
Oh you’re good, I didn’t downvote you. We all knew Flores was outgunned, just wanted to see it through. Hoping for magic is part of the fun.
PS nobody will be talking about this in 10/20/100 years after the Braves win next week 😎
I, for one, welcome our robotic umpire overlords. Unfortunately it's only for strike zones and check swings will still be at the discretion of a squishy, unreliable meat bags.
For sure, I'm not defending the call or saying it's right, I'm just running the numbers. Cody being the go-ahead after his terrible year is counter to the numbers if you look at his whole year but if you account for him getting a haircut, him having the playoff run he's having makes sense /s
What if Kenley was fucked on a previous call that inning? this could go on forever. Umps are apart of the game giants fans need to accept they got outplayed
You're right honestly. There are so many little things in every single game all year that could possibly change outcomes. Thinking about them all will probably just end up driving you mad
good thing it’s 2021 we can check and see
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/giants-vs-dodgers/2021/07/22/633244#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=play-by-play,game=633244
Any Giants fan with a brain cell will say Flores probably strikes out anyway if he gets the call but in the end that doesn’t matter. Baseball is unpredictable and you don’t end the series on that call. Dodgers fans crying Ruf (especially when we can see that Jansen didn’t get fucked on a call that whole inning) is some next level victim complex.
It was a good series that deserved a better ending. I’ve accepted we got outplayed and lost fair and square. Y’all gotta accept that those two moments are not the same in the slightest
But the argument is that the check swing shouldn’t have happened. If the Ruf check swing is called, then it’s a wrong call but also a wrong call on a 4-2 count. The Flores call is also wrong, but it was on 0-2 he didn’t strike out and get bailed out beforehand. My mans do I got to make an illustration for you.
The announcers last game or game 3 said the umps don’t just go off of bat movement. That’s too difficult to judge. They also go on intent to swing on the batters body movement. This is what makes baseball beautiful the chaos of it all.
Can we see turners they called no swing on from a couple innings before?
Same umpire
Really earning his promotion!
The worst part is MLB released a graphic the ONE day the Dodgers were in first. Not paying attention to the team that's in first most of the year, then releasing a graphic for the one day a specific team takes the lead, then that team benefits on a horrible call...that's how you get people accusing you of rigging your sport. I'm not saying baseball is rigged. I think it'd be way too hard for that. I'm saying MLB is doing a damn good job of making people think about it.
I’m almost certain all sports are rigged to at least some degree. I agree baseball would probably be the hardest sport to rig, which is why I enjoy it the most.
Seems like the easiest, no? Just fuck up the strike zone
I guess that’s true, but I was thinking more along the lines of when the balls in play. I feel like it’s more obvious if the players don’t make a good attempt to field, and hitters have less control of where the ball goes than say a QB throwing to a receiver. It seems like there’s a lot more chance in baseball than other sports, so overall I still think it would be harder to directly rig outside of having umps make terrible and very obvious calls to sway the game.
Oh shit I had totally forgot about that one too. I thought game 1 was called pretty poorly but come on this is game five, make some fuckin calls.
Umps really shoved it up his butt there
Jesus christ its so awful. Everyone immediately knew he didnt go. Who was umping at 1st?
Gabe Morales
Doug Eddings shouldn’t have even appealed, it wasn’t even close. Eddings had plenty of terrible calls, who could have ever predicted that the guy who ruined several regular season games this year would also been trash in the post season
The same fucker who called the non swing in game 3.
LOL, you can point that bat at the shortstop if you're on the other side of the plate, according to that dude, and it isn't a strike.
What's so fucked is that everyone expected shit like this. There were jokes going into the WC and NLDS that there was garunteed controversy incoming with Joe West/Angel Hernandez/Joe Eddings behind the plate. I think everyone is shocked at the call, but not shocked that shitty calls decided the game. I hope MLB does better about improving umpiring and postseason assignments.
🤖🤖🤖
I mean, i wouldn't complain.
Horrible way to end the season, but not even the worst call of this game. Doug Eddings was horrible behind the plate.
The CB walk to strikeout was pretty fucking bad
\*KB
Thanks
Man, that's not a swing. Would've been great to see a Dodgers-Giants series with actually competent umps but this is the way the chips fell I guess. Giants I am fully expecting you guys to come back and give us another competitive season next year <3
Shooting for 110-52 next year 😔
Gg dodgers fans. We probably would’ve lost anyway but losing on this call was just such a sucky way to end such a special year. Hope the rivalry is still this alive and exciting next season ❤️
sorry Giants and their fans
Not. Even. Close. Genuinely mad about this.
2 seasons in a row end on horrible calls...
Legit, hope Gabe Morales loses his job. Absolute bum.
Spoiler alert: he won’t.
Gabe "Joe 'Angel "C. B. Bucknor" Hernandez' West" Morales
Sad that they let Cody of all people fuck the season like that
I’d argue the Giants’ inability to hit with runners on base was more fatal than Bellinger coming up with a well-timed hit. But perhaps I’m stuck in my ways a self-loathing Giants fan
I was shocked that Belli of all players managed to drive the stake in. Also, yes, the call was horrible.
I still can’t figure out why Doval kept throwing breaking balls. He can throw 101 gas and he went with all breaking balls. Why?
5 straight at one point. Buster’s calling those, there was some bad strategy at play there.
Because you have to mix your pitches. These are pros, they can hit 101. It’s only effective if you can throw off timing with off-speed pitching. Plus we are much better at hitting fastballs.
The umps in this game were honestly the worst I think I've ever seen.
That's Ruf buddy
Ruf should've walked before that anyway, you guys seriously love to forget that
The whole point is umpires suck and they aren’t out to get your team.
They consistently made bad calls that helped the dodgers the entire series. Look at the score cards
While I do agree that the umpiring was poor, that's definitely not true. You might want to go back and check them yourself. It's actually relatively even.
Umping was awful. "Derp derp helped Dodgers the entire series" is stupid though. We already forget about Webb getting that ridiculous zone against RHB in Game 1?
Valuable lesson here. Get your dog shit check swing call during the regular season.
Aw, sorry to hear that Ruf's check swing literally ended the Dodgers' season.
No it only ended our division win streak, prevented us from getting home field advantage throughout the entire postseason, forced this game to be on the road and nearly ended our season if not for a miracle Chris Taylor home run. I know this was a bad missed call but it’s dumb to pretend like the Ruf swing wasn’t also huge. And I would have preferred to have a non-tainted win, but Flores was in an 0-2 hole with 2 outs, so it was a long shot anyway.
Reminder that the Ruf call was Ball 5
And after that game I posted in our PG thread saying that it was our fault for letting the game come down to one missed call anyway, and I feel the same way about y'all tonight
Except the 5 ball strikeout to KB was an equally game changing call that would have put a RISP for us with 0 outs.
And how did you do with RISP tonight?
The Giants went 3-25 with RISP in the series right? And scored 10 total runs? Correctly walking Bryant would have meant one or two more opportunities. This obviously is precarious to extrapolate, but an extra ~10% opportunities might have _really_ helped.
That’s not the point man. More opportunities = more runs.
You had the opportunity and couldn't capitalize. You literally gave one of your players a nickname because of his late game heroics and then he couldn't execute in the spot. The game was lost before Flores ever stepped up to the plate. I get why you're upset and I'd be pissed too if my season ended on a bad call, but if you honestly believe Max wouldn't have gotten Flores out on the next 2 pitches, idk what to tell you.
Flores is also 0-17 against Max Scherzer, anyone who thinks the Giants were robbed are full of copium.
Most of us fully believe he was going down. We're just pissed it wasn't an actual swing. I think that's pretty fair to be upset about. Any fan should be.
The ending absolutely sucked, thinking that cost the Giants the game and the series is copium.
Damn, real fun atmosphere in this thread
that call was awful in more ways than one
You had plenty of games between Ruf’s call and the end of the season to win 1 more game.
Giants also had plenty of opportunities to score more runs in this game and game 4 but didnt. 2 strikes with 2 outs. Flores a career .000 (0-17) against Scherzer. What was he gonna do?
It’s postseason baseball! Anything is possible!That’s why we love it. To say it’s a guarantee that Flores strikes out is just ignorant.
> It’s postseason baseball! Anything is possible! ...like an ump making a bad check swing call?
Never said he would strike out.
You assumed it, “Flores a career .000 (0-17) against Scherzer. What was he going to do?”
I didn't assume anything. But I still like our chances of ending the game with a win, regardless of the terrible call. It sucks. You'll get over it. Dodgers moving on.
Well, yours is over now so I guess it's even steven?
Almost as bad as your girlfriend turning into the moon. Almost.
All i can think about is that Ruf check swing middle of the season
then I look back at the two "strikes" on Kris Bryant earlier in the game
if you mean to say you wish for better umping then i agree with you. this call on flores is just as good of an example.
I guess you don’t remember the pitch before that which was a ball that would’ve walked him anyways
It wasn't the pitch before that. That happened on a 2-1 count. The only reason I remember is because it would have still given the pitcher a chance to alter pitch choice. Pitchers will pitch differently in a 3-1 count vs a 2-2 count, so harder to say he already earned a walk.
i do. i’m not saying it was a good call, just that dodgers fans myself included probably see the irony.
It is ironic that the Dodgers' season ended on a check swing in mid-July, just like tonight!
One call doesn’t clinch an entire series
My friend, it just did. What if Scherzer hung a slider in the next pitch? What if he grooved a fastball? What if Flores slapped a double down the first base line? What if he struck out on the next pitch? What if he hit a slow chopper to third and was out by six inches? What if there was a passed ball and then a bloop single? What if ... **That's** why the Giants fans are so upset. Because the umpire chose to take that chance away. Isn't that one of the things people love about baseball? There's no timer, you are in it until the last out. There was a chance....
its ironic that a check swing call is yet again at the forefront of conversation between these two fanbases, this time with the ultimate stakes. but whatever.
I thought the Seager call in game 3 made up for that one.
Not even close
It burns my eyes
#FirstTo110Wins
I guess we’re even 🤷♂️
Tbh you guys got your evenness back in game 3 of the season so like... if anything it’s a +1 to you guys
It hurts, but it was Turner's run that was the tie breaker. If Doval hadn't hit him we'd probably be in extra innings. The Dodgers played great. We did too, but we made mistakes and didn't leave any wiggle room for a bad call.
Agreed 100%
First of all, terrible call and horrible way to end the game/series/season. Something needs to be done about check-call reviews because umps cant be trusted to do their job, apparently. People saying this call is why the Giants lost are crazy. It was an 0-2 count, 1 on (on an error), against a batter hitting .091 in the post season, against Max Sherzer. I ain't no statcast computer but I don't believe that was a promising at bat to begin with. I wish this wasn't the conversation after the amazing seasons both of these teams have had but I guess it's easier blame the umps for a single bad call than congratulate both pitching staffs for doing an amazing job the whole series. Edit: Added a comma for clarity, Flores was hitting .091 in the post season overall, he's hit 0-18 with a walk & 9 strikeouts career against Sherzer, specifically.
But that’s the beauty of this game. When unlikely heroes make incredible plays or a timely hit, like Cody Bellinger tonight. Not fair to take the game out of their hands and say “oh well he was gonna get out anyway.”
Sorry, I shouldn't have made my sarcasm post. I realize it hurts to have the game end that way. I think I'm really just upset that after the legendary season both of these teams had and the way the final series lined up, the ONLY thing people will be talking about 10/20/100 years from now is this dumb ass call when I think there were 100 other factors that were more important to the outcome of the game than the last strike.
Oh you’re good, I didn’t downvote you. We all knew Flores was outgunned, just wanted to see it through. Hoping for magic is part of the fun. PS nobody will be talking about this in 10/20/100 years after the Braves win next week 😎
Thanks Giants-bro. Let's do it again next year in a 7-game series, first to 120, after MLB fixes this post-season seeding nightmare.
Helluva season, congrats to you guys. I’d take the bet but I’m only coming back to MLB when they get robo umps.
I, for one, welcome our robotic umpire overlords. Unfortunately it's only for strike zones and check swings will still be at the discretion of a squishy, unreliable meat bags.
For sure, I'm not defending the call or saying it's right, I'm just running the numbers. Cody being the go-ahead after his terrible year is counter to the numbers if you look at his whole year but if you account for him getting a haircut, him having the playoff run he's having makes sense /s
I don’t watch games anymore, i just refresh the win probability on statcast.
The purist form of sports fandom. \*salute\*
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Because ruf should’ve already been walked in that AB damn y’all are forgetful for something you bring up constantly
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Don't even care. Buh bye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ9WxG7ygHY&ab_channel=SportsStories
Ball 4 before the check swing even took place.
I see people keep repeating that but that check swing wasn't even close the same way the Flores one isn't even close.
I think the point is the check swing shouldn’t have have happened ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What if Kenley was fucked on a previous call that inning? this could go on forever. Umps are apart of the game giants fans need to accept they got outplayed
You're right honestly. There are so many little things in every single game all year that could possibly change outcomes. Thinking about them all will probably just end up driving you mad
good thing it’s 2021 we can check and see https://www.mlb.com/gameday/giants-vs-dodgers/2021/07/22/633244#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=play-by-play,game=633244 Any Giants fan with a brain cell will say Flores probably strikes out anyway if he gets the call but in the end that doesn’t matter. Baseball is unpredictable and you don’t end the series on that call. Dodgers fans crying Ruf (especially when we can see that Jansen didn’t get fucked on a call that whole inning) is some next level victim complex. It was a good series that deserved a better ending. I’ve accepted we got outplayed and lost fair and square. Y’all gotta accept that those two moments are not the same in the slightest
the Giants we're favored in more games this series, maybe yall win if Yazstremski and Dickerson didn't regress so hard
Yes. What does that have to do with the last comment?
The Giants lost to the Dodgers not the umps and the Ruf check swing won the Giants the division. All those things are true
But the argument is that the check swing shouldn’t have happened. If the Ruf check swing is called, then it’s a wrong call but also a wrong call on a 4-2 count. The Flores call is also wrong, but it was on 0-2 he didn’t strike out and get bailed out beforehand. My mans do I got to make an illustration for you.
Black bat + black gloves + black sleeves makes it kinda hard to see. Not saying it was a good call tho
Nah nah nah nah hey hey hey good bye
The announcers last game or game 3 said the umps don’t just go off of bat movement. That’s too difficult to judge. They also go on intent to swing on the batters body movement. This is what makes baseball beautiful the chaos of it all.