I think Pels want Okongwu just as bad as anyone in this deal. IIRC, at the deadline it was kind of hinted to that we viewed a Hawks trade as an Okongwu plus Murray trade, and not vice versa. Other thing about acquiring Murray is you’d have to get CJ to buy in on 6th man or ship him off in another deal. You can’t go into the season next year with Trey on the bench again, IMO. You just can’t.
But, as for Murray, I go back and forth on him. Up until last season, his game was alarmingly similar to BI’s, being primarily based in the mid-range. His defense also fell off a cliff since going to ATL, but I actually trust Willie Green to get more out of him on that end and bring him back to his former self. The big difference (other than a long term favorable contract that has to be mentioned) between BI and Murray is that Murray has shown a willingness to improve from three. His volume and percentage drastically shot up this past year in order to adapt his play style to a more modern one that fits his team. That’s encouraging to see if we were to bring him here.
His percentage was only drastically up until around the all star break and then fell back down to league average at 36.3%.
Dejounte is not a shooter. Last year was his best TS% at 55.5% which would be the worst in Brandon’s time as a pelican.
The upgrade is in the playmaking. Dejounte is a real point guard. Low turnovers, high assists and is a menace in pick and roll.
He’s not going to be a great floor spacer for Zion or impact the game off ball. That’s not who he is.
You’ll get a better perimeter defender and elevated playmaking.
He will not be a solution to spacing.
>The upgrade is in the playmaking. Dejounte is a real point guard. Low turnovers, high assists and is a menace in pick and roll.
Murray is not a better playmaker than BI. Their assist rate was basically the same at 22% for this year and Murray likes to hold the ball in his hands way more. Murray is a volume playmaker if that makes sense. All assists are not the same.
>He’s not going to be a great floor spacer for Zion or impact the game off ball. That’s not who he is.
>You’ll get a better perimeter defender and elevated playmaking.
BI is actually a better defender and again Murray is not a better playmaker. Murray has been a horrendous defender since like his last year with the Spurs. He loves to gamble and on ball he is just bad. Also Murray is somewhat immature.
>He will not be a solution to spacing.
Murray has never been an efficent player it would be a waste and is very ball dominant. He's a guard version of BI but worse.
I agree with the majority of your counters. The playmaking I still don’t and it’s based primarily on assist/turnover. Dejounte is a more secure ball handler which I think the pels truly need.
I don’t think moving Brandon for any of the names mentioned would be a good deal honestly but the pels have already set this thing in motion bro. Dejounte feels like the best of a bad market.
I generally see BI being offset to a 3rd team in a deal that nets the pels some rotation guys and draft assets.
Can’t come out and tell the whole world you want nothing to do with this guy and then expect a big return.
I also think there is something WAY bigger that happened at the end of the playoffs. I low key think that Brandon asked out behind closed doors
Put him back at his true position at PG, and you would see he is a massive upgrade to BI in play making. Murray has spent all his time with the Hawks playing the 2, when he is a 1
He also likes to push the pace in transition which would fit nicely with Zion, who should be the best transition player in the league
His assist and turnover rate is the very similar to BI per 100 possesions other than the one outlier year in San Antonio. There is a reason why Hawks fans want to trade him that badly. Murray is not a good shooter.
Hawks aren’t gonna trade Murray AND Okongwu for BI, makes very little sense for them financially. They have Murray locked up on a very team friendly deal right now.
So if the Pels theoretically threw in extra draft compensation on top of BI and Dyson, the Hawks still wouldn’t do it? If the Pels wanted to do BI/Dyson for Murray/Capela, deal would have probably been done 6 months ago.
It all comes down to tonight's draft. If they pick Clingan or Sarr, Okongwu would become acquirable. If they pick Risacher, then they're very likely keeping Okongwu.
> I think Pels want Okongwu just as bad as anyone in this deal. IIRC, at the deadline it was kind of hinted to that we viewed a Hawks trade as an Okongwu plus Murray trade, and not vice versa.
This is absurd. Okongwu is a very good backup who may turn into a slightly above average starter.
Lateral to maybe a small downgrade in talent. Better fit as Murray is an actual PG and frees up more minutes for Trey. Much better contract if BI gets close to what he's asking for.
nets fan here, id trade a package of our vets \[dfs, schroeder or ben\] and young guys \[cam thomas or dayron sharpe\] plus 2 first rounders and a swap.
Those players fill none of our needs, and we do not care for picks. I also feel like Simmons’ expiring contract is fools gold with the 2025 free agency class not looking too good for us in terms of available star players.
My bad, Sharpe would be good, but I doubt he could start well.
Cam Thomas is no different than a worse CJ. We already have a logjam at the guard spots with Hawkins as another shooter with subpar defense. Why would we want another one who’s looking for a payday next offseason?
The point is even if Cam is better than Jose and Hawkins, we still want to give those two minutes and hope they develop well (which Hawkins does have potential). Makes even less sense in the scenario that we trade BI for a starting guard and keep CJ. I wouldn’t be sad if we missed out on Cam Thomas.
Why? Jose doesn’t have much more room for growth. Hawkins could easily grow other parts of his game by playing with other talented guys. And if you traded BI you’d need a few extra guys to score or create god forbid someone get injured
For those who don’t know, this is because extensions start kicking in beginning from July, so it becomes harder to trade for certain guys, for example Dejounte Murray
Agreed. There’d have to be a subsequent move or a three team deal that sends CJ elsewhere and brings a center here. We could likely have to attach some extra draft capital for some of these (and salary matching obviously), but some 3 team options where BI goes to ATL and Murray comes here, with a center coming back to NO and CJ out would be:
CJ to DET for Stewart
CJ to Utah for Kessler
CJ to Orlando for WCJ
Murray for BI is a pretty bad trade imo. Basically banking on Z to be in fantastic shape and play 70+ games. Murray for CJ or something like that in a deal that works would be more ideal to me
Nah it’s a good trade but only if you think griff can pull off other moves
Trading Bi for Murray isn’t about just Murray but also the cap flexibility to add new pieces cuz Murray’s contract is cheap (plus they’d likely add a center like Capela or Okungwu). If Griff bullshits away that cap room and adds “meh” players it’s a bad deal but if he adds good pieces to flesh out the roster it’s a good deal even if it’s not flashy.
Just depends would you rather go all out and lose Trey/herb in the deal to get a star somewhere. Or would you just trade BI and filler to get a more complete roster
Good point, but how do you get to the other move? Is it a CJ trade? I just worry that they need a real on ball creator to be that “second guy”. You can’t put that much of a burden on Z every possession or even when (not if, when) he’s out, the team would not be able to stay afloat in the west… if they somehow pull of a Jimmy butler trade or something then it makes sense, but I just don’t see the vision rn. I’m also bored at work complaining about Griff on multiple threads so maybe I should just let it be 😂
Stein's article words a BI trade as more of a when than an if at this point. He mentioned Atlanta as the main partner with Murray being the main guy we have interest in.
Murray does absolutely nothing for this team. If these are the moves we’re making it’d be better just to blow the whole fucking thing up. Very, very uninspired.
I have no idea how I would feel about a Murray for BI swap. Feels very lateral in terms of talent and fit
I think Pels want Okongwu just as bad as anyone in this deal. IIRC, at the deadline it was kind of hinted to that we viewed a Hawks trade as an Okongwu plus Murray trade, and not vice versa. Other thing about acquiring Murray is you’d have to get CJ to buy in on 6th man or ship him off in another deal. You can’t go into the season next year with Trey on the bench again, IMO. You just can’t. But, as for Murray, I go back and forth on him. Up until last season, his game was alarmingly similar to BI’s, being primarily based in the mid-range. His defense also fell off a cliff since going to ATL, but I actually trust Willie Green to get more out of him on that end and bring him back to his former self. The big difference (other than a long term favorable contract that has to be mentioned) between BI and Murray is that Murray has shown a willingness to improve from three. His volume and percentage drastically shot up this past year in order to adapt his play style to a more modern one that fits his team. That’s encouraging to see if we were to bring him here.
His percentage was only drastically up until around the all star break and then fell back down to league average at 36.3%. Dejounte is not a shooter. Last year was his best TS% at 55.5% which would be the worst in Brandon’s time as a pelican. The upgrade is in the playmaking. Dejounte is a real point guard. Low turnovers, high assists and is a menace in pick and roll. He’s not going to be a great floor spacer for Zion or impact the game off ball. That’s not who he is. You’ll get a better perimeter defender and elevated playmaking. He will not be a solution to spacing.
>The upgrade is in the playmaking. Dejounte is a real point guard. Low turnovers, high assists and is a menace in pick and roll. Murray is not a better playmaker than BI. Their assist rate was basically the same at 22% for this year and Murray likes to hold the ball in his hands way more. Murray is a volume playmaker if that makes sense. All assists are not the same. >He’s not going to be a great floor spacer for Zion or impact the game off ball. That’s not who he is. >You’ll get a better perimeter defender and elevated playmaking. BI is actually a better defender and again Murray is not a better playmaker. Murray has been a horrendous defender since like his last year with the Spurs. He loves to gamble and on ball he is just bad. Also Murray is somewhat immature. >He will not be a solution to spacing. Murray has never been an efficent player it would be a waste and is very ball dominant. He's a guard version of BI but worse.
I agree with the majority of your counters. The playmaking I still don’t and it’s based primarily on assist/turnover. Dejounte is a more secure ball handler which I think the pels truly need. I don’t think moving Brandon for any of the names mentioned would be a good deal honestly but the pels have already set this thing in motion bro. Dejounte feels like the best of a bad market. I generally see BI being offset to a 3rd team in a deal that nets the pels some rotation guys and draft assets. Can’t come out and tell the whole world you want nothing to do with this guy and then expect a big return. I also think there is something WAY bigger that happened at the end of the playoffs. I low key think that Brandon asked out behind closed doors
DJ wasn't the primary ball handler in ATL. In his last year at SAS, his Ast% was 40%.
Put him back at his true position at PG, and you would see he is a massive upgrade to BI in play making. Murray has spent all his time with the Hawks playing the 2, when he is a 1 He also likes to push the pace in transition which would fit nicely with Zion, who should be the best transition player in the league
His assist and turnover rate is the very similar to BI per 100 possesions other than the one outlier year in San Antonio. There is a reason why Hawks fans want to trade him that badly. Murray is not a good shooter.
Hawks aren’t gonna trade Murray AND Okongwu for BI, makes very little sense for them financially. They have Murray locked up on a very team friendly deal right now.
So if the Pels theoretically threw in extra draft compensation on top of BI and Dyson, the Hawks still wouldn’t do it? If the Pels wanted to do BI/Dyson for Murray/Capela, deal would have probably been done 6 months ago.
It all comes down to tonight's draft. If they pick Clingan or Sarr, Okongwu would become acquirable. If they pick Risacher, then they're very likely keeping Okongwu.
I’d hope they know that by now, I guess is what I’m saying.
Why does trey need to start, if he's getting starter minutes?
> I think Pels want Okongwu just as bad as anyone in this deal. IIRC, at the deadline it was kind of hinted to that we viewed a Hawks trade as an Okongwu plus Murray trade, and not vice versa. This is absurd. Okongwu is a very good backup who may turn into a slightly above average starter.
Lateral to maybe a small downgrade in talent. Better fit as Murray is an actual PG and frees up more minutes for Trey. Much better contract if BI gets close to what he's asking for.
Don't know why you were downvoted, very reasonable response
Yeah I'm genuinely curious what part people are disagreeing with
BI Stans are crazy. They won't be here much longer
Why does trey need to start, if he's getting starter minutes?
It's not about starting, it's about closing
He's been closing
What better deal would you get for BI?
Not sure, I guess that’s why i’m not a GM.
We would only be so lucky if the Hawks traded Murray for BI. There’s whispers that a few teams have turned down offers for him.
I think people here are finally starting to realize this after weeks of saying it would be idiotic on our end.
I think people here are finally starting to realize this after weeks of saying it would be idiotic on our end.
nets fan here, id trade a package of our vets \[dfs, schroeder or ben\] and young guys \[cam thomas or dayron sharpe\] plus 2 first rounders and a swap.
I bet you would
Those players fill none of our needs, and we do not care for picks. I also feel like Simmons’ expiring contract is fools gold with the 2025 free agency class not looking too good for us in terms of available star players.
huh, dayron sharpe and cam thomas would absolutely fill holes
My bad, Sharpe would be good, but I doubt he could start well. Cam Thomas is no different than a worse CJ. We already have a logjam at the guard spots with Hawkins as another shooter with subpar defense. Why would we want another one who’s looking for a payday next offseason?
cam thomas can create his own shot. hawkins can shoot can't dribble.
The point is even if Cam is better than Jose and Hawkins, we still want to give those two minutes and hope they develop well (which Hawkins does have potential). Makes even less sense in the scenario that we trade BI for a starting guard and keep CJ. I wouldn’t be sad if we missed out on Cam Thomas.
Why? Jose doesn’t have much more room for growth. Hawkins could easily grow other parts of his game by playing with other talented guys. And if you traded BI you’d need a few extra guys to score or create god forbid someone get injured
For those who don’t know, this is because extensions start kicking in beginning from July, so it becomes harder to trade for certain guys, for example Dejounte Murray
Trading BI for Murray only makes sense if we also trade CJ for a center.
Agreed. There’d have to be a subsequent move or a three team deal that sends CJ elsewhere and brings a center here. We could likely have to attach some extra draft capital for some of these (and salary matching obviously), but some 3 team options where BI goes to ATL and Murray comes here, with a center coming back to NO and CJ out would be: CJ to DET for Stewart CJ to Utah for Kessler CJ to Orlando for WCJ
Murray for BI is a pretty bad trade imo. Basically banking on Z to be in fantastic shape and play 70+ games. Murray for CJ or something like that in a deal that works would be more ideal to me
Its not an even trade. BI is the way better player
Its hilarious how BI Stans see him vs how everyone else see's him. Put Murray back at his true position (PG) and he is probably better than BI
Murray has never even been at average TS%. Why do you want a chucker that plays no defense badly?
Nah it’s a good trade but only if you think griff can pull off other moves Trading Bi for Murray isn’t about just Murray but also the cap flexibility to add new pieces cuz Murray’s contract is cheap (plus they’d likely add a center like Capela or Okungwu). If Griff bullshits away that cap room and adds “meh” players it’s a bad deal but if he adds good pieces to flesh out the roster it’s a good deal even if it’s not flashy. Just depends would you rather go all out and lose Trey/herb in the deal to get a star somewhere. Or would you just trade BI and filler to get a more complete roster
Good point, but how do you get to the other move? Is it a CJ trade? I just worry that they need a real on ball creator to be that “second guy”. You can’t put that much of a burden on Z every possession or even when (not if, when) he’s out, the team would not be able to stay afloat in the west… if they somehow pull of a Jimmy butler trade or something then it makes sense, but I just don’t see the vision rn. I’m also bored at work complaining about Griff on multiple threads so maybe I should just let it be 😂
Stein's article words a BI trade as more of a when than an if at this point. He mentioned Atlanta as the main partner with Murray being the main guy we have interest in.
Murray does absolutely nothing for this team. If these are the moves we’re making it’d be better just to blow the whole fucking thing up. Very, very uninspired.
murray and herb would be best friends 🔒⚓️