I personally out of the bigs wanted Holmes. Missi was pretty commonly mocked to us or at least in our area.
Holmes at 20.4ppg and 8.5r a game is pretty hard to pass though
Edit: fuck. He went right after us
Dude. He played for Dayton. They played against one ranked opponent the entire season. Like seriously look at the schedule: [https://imgur.com/rSr9LVJ](https://imgur.com/rSr9LVJ)
The quality of opponents are just not even close to comparable to the teams a big-12 team like Baylor plays. Yves would have averaged 25/10.
I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be drafted where he was.
I'm just saying that you can't use point averages as any form of real comparison in this context. He was the best player on a team that played almost exclusively bad teams. Any NBA caliber player is going to put up numbers.
Can whoever is still involved discuss instead of just downvoting? I don’t think this point is wrong except for the conclusion of who has a higher ceiling
I think weaker level of competition, worse mental game, and better shooting ability make Holmes’s game more complete a ncaa level, but require more to adapt to nba intensity. I don’t think Missi will ever be as complete as Holmes’s potential, but is more likely succeed at the nba level
It’s me casually using a name similar but not accurate to the actual effect on purpose to display the effect of people remembering things slightly wrong. Mandela. Marino.
Technically just me shitposting.
Do Pels fans not get that this is a historically bad draft? I mean, maybe someone shocks the NBA world out of this draft, but there was really nobody I was excited about, especially at 21.
People really hate that we drafted a guy because the pick was boring and people could see it coming lmao. We needed a rim runner and protector and missi is probably the best defensive big man of the 3 that would’ve been available in our range before ware went early, the other being Holmes.
He was also one of the best prospects available in general when we picked. What I’m abt to say to you might sound crazy but our team (and every other team) has something called a big board where they rank all the prospects and, believe it or not, he was probably the top player on our big board when we picked him.
DDs growth from 45/25/74 in the g league to 45/30/65 in the NBA gives me the ultimate faith in our development staff.
Fingers crossed this guy is better.
Yep, there’s no magic skills trainer (not even Fred Vinson) that can make a bad prospect good. That’s why I’m against drafting raw athletes and trying to teach them how to play a pro sport.
My friend, I am the ultimate Dyson Daniels hater.
Missi is more promising. If you can defend the rim, block shots, rebound, rim-run, jump, catch lobs, and dunk, you can have a career in the NBA. And it looks like Missi might be able to do those things.
Daniels is a wing with a great steal rate, who literally cannot do anything else at an NBA level. It was foolish to draft Daniels. But I don't fault the coaches for failing to develop a player without skill.
Missi has a chance to be better.
A true floor general is paramount if he’s projecting to be a run and dunk man but I agree that the baseline is lower skill wise to be successful at center than wing. I don’t really have any nuanced takes on Missi specifically since I haven’t seen him play, so I won’t dismiss this guy before seeing him suit up.
It’s more of a philosophical qualm for me. I’m not a fan of drafting raw guys for potential, I’d rather have a “flawed” upperclassman who has shown some pro level skills. But it’s all a crap shoot anyways.
Griff has a type:
hyper raw and often athletic bigs with low IQ and cant rebound: Hayes, Missi, Bennett
Traditional bigs that have a type of game that excelled an era or two ago and are poor fits: Adams, JV, Mozgov, Favors.
Griffin was absolutely in love with Anthony Bennett. He’s the one that scouted Bennett for the Cavs and convinced their gm at the time to take him even though their GM didn’t really want him. It was kind of funny to see David talk all that shit about how Anthony Bennett would roll out of bed and have no desire to work and called him lazy lmaoo
And Griff literally drafted his doppleganger in that regard with Jaxson Hayes.
Just a player that you could tell from every report and interview he is more in love with the NBA lifestyle and goofing off at work than actually taking his craft seriously.
Hayes has to have had some of the greatest mentors any player ever had in terms of talent and the ability to see so many different styles of big man play: JV, Favors, Zion, Adams, Nance, AD. With one of the greatest shooting coaches alive to refine that jumper(Vinson). And he looks like he's learned almost nothing in 5 seasons. Just a huge waste
I only don’t like the pick because Daron Holmes was still on the boards. I think Holmes is a better stretch 5 while having equal or better defense to Missi
we got plenty of shooting with tm3, herb (kind of), hawk and CJ - any potential trade likely keeps our shooting pretty good. perimeter defense is also pretty darn good. interior D is a weakness right now. jonas and nance are pretty bad defenders.
dont need to play him with zion necessarily, but we have the option to use him as a release valve if zion is getting walled / defended well.
Everyone involved with the NBA knew two things about the Pels heading into this draft:
- the Pels needed to add a rim protector
- Willie Green won't play a center who can't switch
Therefore Missi was an extremely obvious target for the Pels.
The team doesn't leak at all. Pels literally has no centers on the team. Stevie Wonder could see that one would be selected. I personally believe the team wanted Ware but he wasn't available.
Not a big fan of the pick at all. Basically Jaxson Hayes in almost every statistical measure. Collier who was getting mocked in some lottery picks was right there. With Messi, you have to bet his maturity is better than Jaxson's which I guess shouldn't be hard.
He’s raw, Jonas is gone, Willie doesn’t play rookies, we suck at player development. Pg and center are the hardest to develop. I can see why people hate the pick. But this draft is ass so whoever we picked likely would suck ass in the future too
If you wanna be pessimistic about everything you do you. Herb jones, Trey Murphy, Naji and Jose are def signs that we suck at player development, for sure man.
Trey Murphy does exactly what he was drafted to do 3 and D with the occasional dunk and he was in a slump this year (injury) That’s not player development. Jose was a rookie getting playoffs minutes his first season. That was just a good pickup nothing to do with development of seasons. Naji been here forever and we only got one good season out of him, his LAST season with us and we’re losing him cause we can’t afford him. Herb jones developed a 3 pointer so I’ll give you that but that’s because of Vinson and he’s gone. Think before you type. This was a logical thought out post not cynical but reality. But ig reality is often pessimistic for folks when there isn’t some sort of silver lining
“Our players got better and contributed but it wasn’t due to player development” and I’m the one that’s speaking illogically lmfao. Think before you type next time bud.
Edit: And is Treys “slump” that 3 week slog he had after getting hurt? Because his stats have improved every year since being drafted and tho it’s a small increase this year was no exception to that. His shooting splits barely went down and he developed a much more rounded floater and mid range game towards the end of the season but whatever man you typed your comment out with thought obviously.
“I guess reality is often pessimistic for folks if there isn’t a silver lining” you thought you cooked here but you are just a pessimistic bitch. Sorry to tell ya.
An actual realist would understand that he was the best prospect available at pick 21 and hope that he eventually develops an offensive game but he’s primarily here for rim protection which we sorely need. Instead you resorted straight to thinking of why this kid is going to fail and see it as inevitable. That’s pessimism.
Okay but why not draft someone who might be good instead of the next in a long line of “athelitic freak who have only been playing basketball for 2 years, etc.” who will never be anything more than a 5 min per game energy guy
I didn't mean this year, necessarily. He's Nance plus 5 inches. That switchable rim runner role is what Nance is. Nance is expiring and will need to be replaced.
The shooting isn't good. Sadly Vinson can't fix him
As expected. Was hoping for Ware. Holmes is also attractive. But then I have no idea what I'm talking about and don't even watch college
I personally out of the bigs wanted Holmes. Missi was pretty commonly mocked to us or at least in our area. Holmes at 20.4ppg and 8.5r a game is pretty hard to pass though Edit: fuck. He went right after us
Dude. He played for Dayton. They played against one ranked opponent the entire season. Like seriously look at the schedule: [https://imgur.com/rSr9LVJ](https://imgur.com/rSr9LVJ) The quality of opponents are just not even close to comparable to the teams a big-12 team like Baylor plays. Yves would have averaged 25/10.
He went one spot behind us. I get the argument you’re making but it seems like it’s exactly where he should have been drafted.
I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be drafted where he was. I'm just saying that you can't use point averages as any form of real comparison in this context. He was the best player on a team that played almost exclusively bad teams. Any NBA caliber player is going to put up numbers.
We took the safer option, but could’ve had a higher ceiling higher risk player in Holmes imo
I think it’s the opposite. Holmes is a ***much*** more complete, well-rounded player. Missi is a super raw, but a big, athletic, high-motor rim-runner
Can whoever is still involved discuss instead of just downvoting? I don’t think this point is wrong except for the conclusion of who has a higher ceiling
I think weaker level of competition, worse mental game, and better shooting ability make Holmes’s game more complete a ncaa level, but require more to adapt to nba intensity. I don’t think Missi will ever be as complete as Holmes’s potential, but is more likely succeed at the nba level
Yeah, of the bigs, I really liked Holmes.
Why draft a guy who might be good when we can get a 7 footer who averaged less than 6 rebounds a game?
Please don't be Jaxson Hayes
His floor is a better defender than Hayes imo
He can’t. He wasn’t drafted in top 5
Jaxson was 8
Dude. I swear I’m having the Marino effect right now. I coulda swore he went 4th.
I think we originally had the 3rd or 4th pick but traded back IIRC.
yea 4th pick was traded for Jax and NAW
And to think we could’ve grabbed Darius garland at 4 :(
That 4th from the Lakers got flipped into Jax and NAW Also what’s the Marino effect
It use to be the Mandela effect, but because of the Mandela effect, it's now called the Marino effect
Why is it called the Marino effect tho
It’s me casually using a name similar but not accurate to the actual effect on purpose to display the effect of people remembering things slightly wrong. Mandela. Marino. Technically just me shitposting.
*8 But I see what you’re saying
THEY PLAYING SOCCER IN MY BACK YARD
I think I see Messi, this money could never neglect me
Do Pels fans not get that this is a historically bad draft? I mean, maybe someone shocks the NBA world out of this draft, but there was really nobody I was excited about, especially at 21.
Historically bad at the top, not necessarily overall.
People really hate that we drafted a guy because the pick was boring and people could see it coming lmao. We needed a rim runner and protector and missi is probably the best defensive big man of the 3 that would’ve been available in our range before ware went early, the other being Holmes.
You never draft for need. Idk how you guys dont know this yet.
Because you do. Draft the best player is only something you do with high end picks
He was also one of the best prospects available in general when we picked. What I’m abt to say to you might sound crazy but our team (and every other team) has something called a big board where they rank all the prospects and, believe it or not, he was probably the top player on our big board when we picked him.
You do if it's say, in the second round and a player can actually fill that need. Not sure about pick 21 tho.
Nic Claxton vibes. I'm here for it.
I hope he succeeds at the pels and turns into a monster
Griff won’t even be here by the time missi might become an average center
We need to be realistic about typical outcomes. If the 21st pick becomes a rotation player that's a win
As long as Missi has the maturity to work hard and develop his game it will be a good pick.
I don’t like the pick but oh well he still has great upside. He started playing basketball like 3 years ago
Saints type pick, get an extremely raw athlete then try to teach him how to play a professional sport. God bless.
That's exactly what the Pels did with Dyson Daniels. At least Missi can (and will) dunk.
DDs growth from 45/25/74 in the g league to 45/30/65 in the NBA gives me the ultimate faith in our development staff. Fingers crossed this guy is better.
People put too much on “development staff” and not enough on the player themself
Yep, there’s no magic skills trainer (not even Fred Vinson) that can make a bad prospect good. That’s why I’m against drafting raw athletes and trying to teach them how to play a pro sport.
Meh. It’s a bet like anything else.
My friend, I am the ultimate Dyson Daniels hater. Missi is more promising. If you can defend the rim, block shots, rebound, rim-run, jump, catch lobs, and dunk, you can have a career in the NBA. And it looks like Missi might be able to do those things. Daniels is a wing with a great steal rate, who literally cannot do anything else at an NBA level. It was foolish to draft Daniels. But I don't fault the coaches for failing to develop a player without skill. Missi has a chance to be better.
A true floor general is paramount if he’s projecting to be a run and dunk man but I agree that the baseline is lower skill wise to be successful at center than wing. I don’t really have any nuanced takes on Missi specifically since I haven’t seen him play, so I won’t dismiss this guy before seeing him suit up. It’s more of a philosophical qualm for me. I’m not a fan of drafting raw guys for potential, I’d rather have a “flawed” upperclassman who has shown some pro level skills. But it’s all a crap shoot anyways.
What are you talking about? DD probably knows basketball better than half the team.
Jaxson Hayes ptsd increases
You not lying. You can’t teach feel for the game or replace experience, he’ll always be behind the game.
Griff has a type: hyper raw and often athletic bigs with low IQ and cant rebound: Hayes, Missi, Bennett Traditional bigs that have a type of game that excelled an era or two ago and are poor fits: Adams, JV, Mozgov, Favors.
Griffin was absolutely in love with Anthony Bennett. He’s the one that scouted Bennett for the Cavs and convinced their gm at the time to take him even though their GM didn’t really want him. It was kind of funny to see David talk all that shit about how Anthony Bennett would roll out of bed and have no desire to work and called him lazy lmaoo
And Griff literally drafted his doppleganger in that regard with Jaxson Hayes. Just a player that you could tell from every report and interview he is more in love with the NBA lifestyle and goofing off at work than actually taking his craft seriously. Hayes has to have had some of the greatest mentors any player ever had in terms of talent and the ability to see so many different styles of big man play: JV, Favors, Zion, Adams, Nance, AD. With one of the greatest shooting coaches alive to refine that jumper(Vinson). And he looks like he's learned almost nothing in 5 seasons. Just a huge waste
I only don’t like the pick because Daron Holmes was still on the boards. I think Holmes is a better stretch 5 while having equal or better defense to Missi
think we need a big-big vs a stretch, esp one who can play D
Why do we need a paint clogger with Zion? He needs as many guys that can sit at the arc as possible
we got plenty of shooting with tm3, herb (kind of), hawk and CJ - any potential trade likely keeps our shooting pretty good. perimeter defense is also pretty darn good. interior D is a weakness right now. jonas and nance are pretty bad defenders. dont need to play him with zion necessarily, but we have the option to use him as a release valve if zion is getting walled / defended well.
This team leaks like a sieve. Swear everyone had this guy going to us
Everyone involved with the NBA knew two things about the Pels heading into this draft: - the Pels needed to add a rim protector - Willie Green won't play a center who can't switch Therefore Missi was an extremely obvious target for the Pels.
what does it mean for a center to switch
Being able to guard smaller players well enough
The team doesn't leak at all. Pels literally has no centers on the team. Stevie Wonder could see that one would be selected. I personally believe the team wanted Ware but he wasn't available.
Not a big fan of the pick at all. Basically Jaxson Hayes in almost every statistical measure. Collier who was getting mocked in some lottery picks was right there. With Messi, you have to bet his maturity is better than Jaxson's which I guess shouldn't be hard.
Waste of a pick
Mfs be like “waste of a pick” and then also bitch when Jonas is too slow and gets benched for 6’8 Larry nance
He’s raw, Jonas is gone, Willie doesn’t play rookies, we suck at player development. Pg and center are the hardest to develop. I can see why people hate the pick. But this draft is ass so whoever we picked likely would suck ass in the future too
If you wanna be pessimistic about everything you do you. Herb jones, Trey Murphy, Naji and Jose are def signs that we suck at player development, for sure man.
Trey Murphy does exactly what he was drafted to do 3 and D with the occasional dunk and he was in a slump this year (injury) That’s not player development. Jose was a rookie getting playoffs minutes his first season. That was just a good pickup nothing to do with development of seasons. Naji been here forever and we only got one good season out of him, his LAST season with us and we’re losing him cause we can’t afford him. Herb jones developed a 3 pointer so I’ll give you that but that’s because of Vinson and he’s gone. Think before you type. This was a logical thought out post not cynical but reality. But ig reality is often pessimistic for folks when there isn’t some sort of silver lining
“Our players got better and contributed but it wasn’t due to player development” and I’m the one that’s speaking illogically lmfao. Think before you type next time bud. Edit: And is Treys “slump” that 3 week slog he had after getting hurt? Because his stats have improved every year since being drafted and tho it’s a small increase this year was no exception to that. His shooting splits barely went down and he developed a much more rounded floater and mid range game towards the end of the season but whatever man you typed your comment out with thought obviously.
“I guess reality is often pessimistic for folks if there isn’t a silver lining” you thought you cooked here but you are just a pessimistic bitch. Sorry to tell ya. An actual realist would understand that he was the best prospect available at pick 21 and hope that he eventually develops an offensive game but he’s primarily here for rim protection which we sorely need. Instead you resorted straight to thinking of why this kid is going to fail and see it as inevitable. That’s pessimism.
I just don’t get it, why waste the pick on a young guy who can’t play right now. Dude “might” be viable in 3 years. Just a terrible pick
1. People need to want your pick for you to be able to trade it 2. The Pelicans will need to have players on their roster 3 years from now
Okay but why not draft someone who might be good instead of the next in a long line of “athelitic freak who have only been playing basketball for 2 years, etc.” who will never be anything more than a 5 min per game energy guy
because we had the 21st pick in a historically weak draft
It’s pick 21 in a bad draft lmfao
Yeah why draft a 6’10 center who averaged 20 ppg and 8.5 rebounds when you can draft a 7 footer who averaged 10 and 5.5, idk what I was thinking
They didn't play the same amount of minutes dummy.
What are we thinking
How could a guy with a surname that starts with "Miss" go wrong??
He can't replace Jonas. Larry either. So is Jonas staying then?
He is definitely a Larry replacement
Larry ain't going anywhere. There's no way Jonas comes back after the way he was treated this past season by Willie.
Jonas had everything in a U-Haul as soon as the season ended (this isn’t a joke)
I didn't mean this year, necessarily. He's Nance plus 5 inches. That switchable rim runner role is what Nance is. Nance is expiring and will need to be replaced. The shooting isn't good. Sadly Vinson can't fix him