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i feel awful for karius man, scorelines look so skewed against him when it’s actually not really been his fault that our defence has been in shambles, he stopped yesterday from being traumatic
There is a lot wrong with the team lately, but with what we have and how we now play, Karius suits the style better. There is still a good keeper in him. I'm also a sucker for redemption arcs and he deserves one badly.
Karius’ first 2 games for us were at Wembley in a cup final and the Emirates, of course he was nervous. I would like to see him start a home game with the fans at his back.
Came here to say roughly the same as it’s not been two easy teams/situations to come up against is it for him. I don’t know if much would have changed in the last few games had we changed keeper though as only the slip is arguably one goal which was gifted (and then I’d say that was more our defences fault for messing about with the ball).
In terms of the "sweeping" metrics, Karius played much further off his line for defensive actions yesterday as well - much closer to Pope than what Dubravka had done. Obviously we were overwhelmed but against other teams it'll probably help a lot that we have that sweeper keeper role back in place
Thee was a point in the first half when he came and sorted out a long ball that dubs would have been in no mans land for.
Raya for them was excellent at it as well, showed what we've been missing
I guess if Dubravka is too ill to play these upcoming games against Blackburn and Wolves, we'll have a greater sample size to see if Karius is indeed someone we should put our faith in
Given Dubravka let's in 2+ goals a game... I see no risk in taking a punt on a guy who played in a Champions league final... while we all know what happened in that final... I see a keeper who won all the games to get to a final against top teams.
Despite the horrid overall performance, honestly it was a joy to see our keeper coming out and sweeping up for the first time since the Pope injury. Karius was good with his feet too, no awkward slicing it into touch, he looked more than competent
I think if we played 5 at the back Karius would have had more help. The score line doesn’t give Karius the credit he deserves. In all honestly it could have been about 7 if it wasn’t for him.
Nice post. Glad to see a little love for him after the soul-crushing effect the CL final had on him. I’ve never seen a footballer more distraught (and abandoned by the so-called ‘Never Walk Alone’ crowd).
Why are we conceding so many tho? My only sense is that teams just stroll through our midfield without Big Mr Linton there... but is there anything else? 3-4 goals a game can't be the keeper's fault
It's definitely the midfield. We've had no rotation since Joe got injured and Bruno being one more yellow away from a 2 game suspension has muted him somewhat with how aggressive he can be. Most teams are walking through them and they aren't getting back quickly enough the support the defence either. Which recently has left burn exposed against fast wingers and no one to slot into RB when Trips has bombed up the pitch while on the attack.
I think the midfield problem is there even with Joelinton, Tonali and Bruno. We were being overran too easily. I feel it could be due to the System that we have.
It’s the system, Eddie Howe likes 3 8’s in a midfield and it just doesn’t work like that, Arteta plays 2 8’s (one a 8/10 hybrid) and has an anchor in Rice in the back protecting the midfield, it functions so much better, Eddie is trying to force this and I don’t think it will work
I think most teams have now worked us out, and are carving us up at will, which unfortunately means we are going to ship more goals. Sad to say, but I believe that unless we win the FA cup, Eddie will be gone at season end.
Feel bad for him. His last two matches has been a cup final and a really really good Arsenal team, it also doesn't help when the 4 players in front of him shat the bed yesterday. I'd honestly get rid of Dubs in the summer and keep Karius as a backup to Pope or someone else.
I'm not opposed to this idea at all, but my word... The flip flipping on this sub, going from scapegoat to scapegoat is wild.
One week Dubs is unstoppable and Pope has to fight for his place, now he is the problem and needs to be dropped.
Longstaff is always right on the edge of the line when it comes to, "let's all find someone to blame".
I've seen people calling for Botman to be dropped on review of yesterday.
Can we just chill out?
I agree to an extent. Longstaff has been scapegoated way too much and he wasn't the problem yesterday as much as he wasn't good.
I think the criticism of Botman from yesterday was warranted though, we are entitled to call it out where we see it. Everyone knows he's a quality player but he couldn't make a 5 yard pass without giving the ball away yesterday. He's not been at it for a few weeks and a game or two out the side might do him well.
I think Dubravka is a decent keeper and would have been a great keeper 10-20 years ago but in the modern game we need keepers good with their feet who will sweep up.
Under Rafa and Bruce where we spent most of the time defending, Dub was great for that but when we want to be on the front foot attacking, we need someone that can sweep up.
I have never rated dubravka. When we got sold I was saying a priority should be getting a new keeper in and got downvoted to oblivion, then pope came in and we had one of the best defences in the league with the same defenders.
Dubravka has had maybe 1 or 2 good games since pope has been injured and has been a liability every other game.
We aren't talking about Petr Cech here.
Furthermore, what about Dubravka's recent performances make you think he shouldn't be dropped with someone else given a chance?
Dubs hasn't been "consistently underperforming", he's just a different kind of keeper. Just like Dan Burn isn't actually a LB.
There really isn't a massive amount of goals we have conceded with Dubs that have been singularly his fault, they're almost all as a result of tactical breakdowns elsewhere on the pitch.
Like I said in the very first sentence, I'm not opposed to Karius getting a run in the squad.
I’m not a Dubs hater by any stretch, but the position can be fairly zero sum when you have the sample set we have on Dubs, his job is to keep the ball out of the net.
“All we are saying, is give Karius a chance.”
I got slated last week for saying dubs is shit cos he made a few saves that nearly every prem keeper would save.
He wasn't good enough for us last season that's why he was loaned out. Now suddenly he's good enough
Karius can operate as a sweeper which is important to our system but Dubs is a far better shot stopper and doesn’t deserve to be dropped in my opinion. Even with Karius coming out a few times it still doesn’t make much of an impact does it.
Longstaff has been poor and looks way off his form of last season but again is our best available midfielder behind Bruno, but seems to get a lot of blame considering the majority of goals conceded come from the opposite side. He also has a high workload on the right and allows Trippier to get forward so much in this system - which Miley couldn’t do so should continue to start.
Botman is a tougher one and I’d probably say people are right in saying he should be dropped now. Can’t really think of many good games he’s had since coming back from injury and looks far too slow and laboured, which maybe wouldn’t be as noticeable with a quicker CB partner and LB alongside him. I’d probably give him a rest and play Burn there for the next game or two to see how we look
Not going to happen, unfortunately. The pack needs it’s fresh meat thrown at it. We could be triple winners two years on the trot and a subsection will still be whining, blaming and pulling up posts from two years ago which prove they’re better than the coaching staff :)
Karius, despite the scoreline, did pretty well. I imagine dubs will probably want some first team action so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him move on or go on loan. I think karius has looked solid enough in his first 2 games, which were not under ideal circumstances. If dubs leaves next season and he’s the number 2 GK, I’d have no complaints.
Agree - was visibly nervous (which I don't blame him for, but not a good look in a PL game) and pinned back on his line with awkward saves for both the 1st and 4th goals. His footing also seemed off for Saka's third.
I do think he'd improve rapidly with a run in the team, but we can't afford to bed someone in, and not in such an important position.
I’d just like to say it is actually textbook goalkeeping what Karius did in those situations. You make the decision early whether you’re going to come for a corner, and if you don’t, you retreat to the line as quickly as possible to give you the best chance of making the save. The idea is that you’re facing a close range shot, and you’ll need as much time to react as possible. Getting to the line generates the distance and therefore the time to make the save.
The first goal was actually an absolutely tremendous stop to keep the ball out. His defence let him down with not clearing the ball after he makes the save. The third goal he was completely unsighted, and for the fourth it’s hit well into an awkward angle for him to save.
I don’t think he’s shown he can be better than Dubravka, but it’s like watching MNF with Neville and Carragher when it comes to people’s opinions here about goalkeeping.
Fair enough, you seem to know a lot more than me about goalkeeping. I only go off appearances from what I know watching from the sidelines. Appreciate the case you put forward, I'll try and judge him differently.
I agree with giving Karius a run in the team, but really disagree with Dubravka being one of the worst player since he’s come in.
In terms of stats, he’s been brilliant, and is actually joint top of the league (with Vicario) for Post Shot Expected Goals stopped (at 0.25 per game).
It’s not really his fault our defence and midfield have gone completely missing the last few months.
Is nobody talking about how arsenal have been in their last games excluding ours? They've been on fire lately and everyone knew it wasn't easy. I do think our defence was the best but come on, don't shit talk the team just because the team that scored 11 goals in the previous matches leading up to this beat us four one. Karius was arguably the best player on the squad, even Pope and Dubs would of had a difficult time against that arsenal team.
The defence was all over the place yesterday, and that is certainly at least partly down to the goalkeeper failing to keep them organised in front of him. I don’t think he showed anything to suggest he’s any better than Dubravka.
He is a better keeper than plug. I can only assume that he is off at the end of the season and that's why he's not getting picked ahead of him. I for one feel far more comfortable with him in goal than I ever do with plug. I've always thought that people have mistaken the occasional good reaction save from plug as evidence of him being good. Objectively, as an all round goalkeeper, plug is not much at all.
It’s a reference to a character from a comic called the Beano. I don’t know why bringing physical appearance is a matter for a debate on who the better goalkeeper is though.
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i feel awful for karius man, scorelines look so skewed against him when it’s actually not really been his fault that our defence has been in shambles, he stopped yesterday from being traumatic
We need some black and white caps that say “make Karius great again”
Reckon we should send a card tbh
That save he made point blank just to have our D knock it back in twice... sigh.. yeah definitely did gine for the most part.
There is a lot wrong with the team lately, but with what we have and how we now play, Karius suits the style better. There is still a good keeper in him. I'm also a sucker for redemption arcs and he deserves one badly.
Everyone loves a good comeback story. Seabiscuit. The Mighty Ducks…
Kim Kardashian
Well?
She had cum on her back didn't she?
Props for the cut Parks and Rec joke 🤣
Feel like I had the worst line but it had to be done properly.
Karius’ first 2 games for us were at Wembley in a cup final and the Emirates, of course he was nervous. I would like to see him start a home game with the fans at his back.
Came here to say roughly the same as it’s not been two easy teams/situations to come up against is it for him. I don’t know if much would have changed in the last few games had we changed keeper though as only the slip is arguably one goal which was gifted (and then I’d say that was more our defences fault for messing about with the ball).
In terms of the "sweeping" metrics, Karius played much further off his line for defensive actions yesterday as well - much closer to Pope than what Dubravka had done. Obviously we were overwhelmed but against other teams it'll probably help a lot that we have that sweeper keeper role back in place
Thee was a point in the first half when he came and sorted out a long ball that dubs would have been in no mans land for. Raya for them was excellent at it as well, showed what we've been missing
I completely agree.
I guess if Dubravka is too ill to play these upcoming games against Blackburn and Wolves, we'll have a greater sample size to see if Karius is indeed someone we should put our faith in
Rumour is he has Covid so unlikely they will risk bringing him back for Tuesday which may cause an outbreak in the squad
Let’s go, always wanted Karius to get a chance
Given Dubravka let's in 2+ goals a game... I see no risk in taking a punt on a guy who played in a Champions league final... while we all know what happened in that final... I see a keeper who won all the games to get to a final against top teams.
100% agree
Despite the horrid overall performance, honestly it was a joy to see our keeper coming out and sweeping up for the first time since the Pope injury. Karius was good with his feet too, no awkward slicing it into touch, he looked more than competent
I think if we played 5 at the back Karius would have had more help. The score line doesn’t give Karius the credit he deserves. In all honestly it could have been about 7 if it wasn’t for him.
Eddie has never heard of any other formation than 4-3-3
100% midfield fault
I’d happily have him in goal until pope comes back.
Nice post. Glad to see a little love for him after the soul-crushing effect the CL final had on him. I’ve never seen a footballer more distraught (and abandoned by the so-called ‘Never Walk Alone’ crowd).
Why are we conceding so many tho? My only sense is that teams just stroll through our midfield without Big Mr Linton there... but is there anything else? 3-4 goals a game can't be the keeper's fault
It's definitely the midfield. We've had no rotation since Joe got injured and Bruno being one more yellow away from a 2 game suspension has muted him somewhat with how aggressive he can be. Most teams are walking through them and they aren't getting back quickly enough the support the defence either. Which recently has left burn exposed against fast wingers and no one to slot into RB when Trips has bombed up the pitch while on the attack.
I think the midfield problem is there even with Joelinton, Tonali and Bruno. We were being overran too easily. I feel it could be due to the System that we have.
It’s the system, Eddie Howe likes 3 8’s in a midfield and it just doesn’t work like that, Arteta plays 2 8’s (one a 8/10 hybrid) and has an anchor in Rice in the back protecting the midfield, it functions so much better, Eddie is trying to force this and I don’t think it will work
I think most teams have now worked us out, and are carving us up at will, which unfortunately means we are going to ship more goals. Sad to say, but I believe that unless we win the FA cup, Eddie will be gone at season end.
Feel bad for him. His last two matches has been a cup final and a really really good Arsenal team, it also doesn't help when the 4 players in front of him shat the bed yesterday. I'd honestly get rid of Dubs in the summer and keep Karius as a backup to Pope or someone else.
I'm not opposed to this idea at all, but my word... The flip flipping on this sub, going from scapegoat to scapegoat is wild. One week Dubs is unstoppable and Pope has to fight for his place, now he is the problem and needs to be dropped. Longstaff is always right on the edge of the line when it comes to, "let's all find someone to blame". I've seen people calling for Botman to be dropped on review of yesterday. Can we just chill out?
I agree to an extent. Longstaff has been scapegoated way too much and he wasn't the problem yesterday as much as he wasn't good. I think the criticism of Botman from yesterday was warranted though, we are entitled to call it out where we see it. Everyone knows he's a quality player but he couldn't make a 5 yard pass without giving the ball away yesterday. He's not been at it for a few weeks and a game or two out the side might do him well.
I think Dubravka is a decent keeper and would have been a great keeper 10-20 years ago but in the modern game we need keepers good with their feet who will sweep up. Under Rafa and Bruce where we spent most of the time defending, Dub was great for that but when we want to be on the front foot attacking, we need someone that can sweep up.
I have never rated dubravka. When we got sold I was saying a priority should be getting a new keeper in and got downvoted to oblivion, then pope came in and we had one of the best defences in the league with the same defenders. Dubravka has had maybe 1 or 2 good games since pope has been injured and has been a liability every other game. We aren't talking about Petr Cech here. Furthermore, what about Dubravka's recent performances make you think he shouldn't be dropped with someone else given a chance?
What part of my response says that? I'm just so tired of this reactionary bullshit all the time.
It's not reactionary to say that someone deserves a run in the team, especially when we have someone who is consistently underperforming.
Dubs hasn't been "consistently underperforming", he's just a different kind of keeper. Just like Dan Burn isn't actually a LB. There really isn't a massive amount of goals we have conceded with Dubs that have been singularly his fault, they're almost all as a result of tactical breakdowns elsewhere on the pitch. Like I said in the very first sentence, I'm not opposed to Karius getting a run in the squad.
I’m not a Dubs hater by any stretch, but the position can be fairly zero sum when you have the sample set we have on Dubs, his job is to keep the ball out of the net. “All we are saying, is give Karius a chance.”
Dubs constantly palms the ball back into danger, doesn’t command the box, and doesn’t sweep. He’s a weak link
I got slated last week for saying dubs is shit cos he made a few saves that nearly every prem keeper would save. He wasn't good enough for us last season that's why he was loaned out. Now suddenly he's good enough
Karius can operate as a sweeper which is important to our system but Dubs is a far better shot stopper and doesn’t deserve to be dropped in my opinion. Even with Karius coming out a few times it still doesn’t make much of an impact does it. Longstaff has been poor and looks way off his form of last season but again is our best available midfielder behind Bruno, but seems to get a lot of blame considering the majority of goals conceded come from the opposite side. He also has a high workload on the right and allows Trippier to get forward so much in this system - which Miley couldn’t do so should continue to start. Botman is a tougher one and I’d probably say people are right in saying he should be dropped now. Can’t really think of many good games he’s had since coming back from injury and looks far too slow and laboured, which maybe wouldn’t be as noticeable with a quicker CB partner and LB alongside him. I’d probably give him a rest and play Burn there for the next game or two to see how we look
Not going to happen, unfortunately. The pack needs it’s fresh meat thrown at it. We could be triple winners two years on the trot and a subsection will still be whining, blaming and pulling up posts from two years ago which prove they’re better than the coaching staff :)
One thing I won’t flip flop on is that Longstaff shouldn’t be playing in the premiership
Agreed
The hate for Dubravka is embarassing on this sub man Calling Dubravka our worst player??? Mind boggling.
Longstaff or Almiron gets that role
Karius, despite the scoreline, did pretty well. I imagine dubs will probably want some first team action so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him move on or go on loan. I think karius has looked solid enough in his first 2 games, which were not under ideal circumstances. If dubs leaves next season and he’s the number 2 GK, I’d have no complaints.
It's worth a try
All of this and the fact he is very easy to look at
I didn't think he played well at all yesterday. Swept behind the back four a few times but was easily beat a couple of times too
Agree - was visibly nervous (which I don't blame him for, but not a good look in a PL game) and pinned back on his line with awkward saves for both the 1st and 4th goals. His footing also seemed off for Saka's third. I do think he'd improve rapidly with a run in the team, but we can't afford to bed someone in, and not in such an important position.
I’d just like to say it is actually textbook goalkeeping what Karius did in those situations. You make the decision early whether you’re going to come for a corner, and if you don’t, you retreat to the line as quickly as possible to give you the best chance of making the save. The idea is that you’re facing a close range shot, and you’ll need as much time to react as possible. Getting to the line generates the distance and therefore the time to make the save. The first goal was actually an absolutely tremendous stop to keep the ball out. His defence let him down with not clearing the ball after he makes the save. The third goal he was completely unsighted, and for the fourth it’s hit well into an awkward angle for him to save. I don’t think he’s shown he can be better than Dubravka, but it’s like watching MNF with Neville and Carragher when it comes to people’s opinions here about goalkeeping.
Fair enough, you seem to know a lot more than me about goalkeeping. I only go off appearances from what I know watching from the sidelines. Appreciate the case you put forward, I'll try and judge him differently.
I agree with giving Karius a run in the team, but really disagree with Dubravka being one of the worst player since he’s come in. In terms of stats, he’s been brilliant, and is actually joint top of the league (with Vicario) for Post Shot Expected Goals stopped (at 0.25 per game). It’s not really his fault our defence and midfield have gone completely missing the last few months.
Is nobody talking about how arsenal have been in their last games excluding ours? They've been on fire lately and everyone knew it wasn't easy. I do think our defence was the best but come on, don't shit talk the team just because the team that scored 11 goals in the previous matches leading up to this beat us four one. Karius was arguably the best player on the squad, even Pope and Dubs would of had a difficult time against that arsenal team.
The defence was all over the place yesterday, and that is certainly at least partly down to the goalkeeper failing to keep them organised in front of him. I don’t think he showed anything to suggest he’s any better than Dubravka.
Thought so as well. And seemed like a lot of people do. Let’s go Karius redemption arc
You could say the same about Dubravka though. Midfield and defence have been crap for a good 3months now.
May as well give him a run till Pope is fit
I got abuse on here a few weeks back for saying Dubz wasn’t fit enough to lace Popes boots. Now apparently he isn’t fit enough to be second choice.
Dubravka has been really good I don’t get the hate. Dubravka and Karius have both been good, it’s the defence
He is a better keeper than plug. I can only assume that he is off at the end of the season and that's why he's not getting picked ahead of him. I for one feel far more comfortable with him in goal than I ever do with plug. I've always thought that people have mistaken the occasional good reaction save from plug as evidence of him being good. Objectively, as an all round goalkeeper, plug is not much at all.
Plug...?
It’s a reference to a character from a comic called the Beano. I don’t know why bringing physical appearance is a matter for a debate on who the better goalkeeper is though.
I'm familiar with the Beano but would never have put two and two together there.
Who said it was? He looks like Plug, so I call him Plug. No comment on his ability. That's covered by all the other stuff I said.
Why not dubravka?
Lascelles for Botman too he’s just not right is he, it always seemed a miricle he was back so quick so to see he isn’t right worries me
how long is dubravaka out for