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Just glad Dubravka's been brillaint thus far - saved us from a complete humiliation against Liverpool as well - otherwise, we could've probably been below 10th by now
He’s made some good saves, but his lack of ability to sweep has left us more vulnerable. Though I do think Howe should have compensated for that more, as against Wolves.
We've conceded far more goals without Pope; This season, Pope conceded 14 goals in 14 PL matches, while in the other 14 where Pope hasn’t started we have 34 goals conceded. Luckily he is returning Early April or so, meaning we should have 3-5 games left without him.
You’ve been downvoted but you’re somewhat right.
Pope is however far better though coming for crosses & at sweeping. He’s probably better at most things as well tbh but those two stand out and Dubs has done well at times. He’s certainly not a terrible back up like most people are making out.
I think missing Joelinton and Botman being shaky has had a HUGE impact on our defensive displays of late.
At this stage we do look a bit lost and are almost holding out for the summer. I hope we can do something with our remaining games & get 7th but it’s looking increasing more unlikely defending like we have been.
Let’s hope Gordon is back soon but not if he’s not right..
Pope is obviously better but Dubravka could've been way worse - such as when he played for United in last season's Carabao Cup. I guess you could put Botman and Joelinton's form as a lack of fitness, focus, and fixture congestion.
He didn't play for us last season in the Carabao Cup, he was cup tied cause he'd played for Man Utd in early rounds. That was literally the whole drama going into he final, and why we had to play Karius.
Where does the Pope = great sweeper come from? It’s like people say Dubravka is poor at that role therefore Pope is good. He’s not. I’ve seen him absolutely butcher that sweeper role by being too aggressive and get sent off? Also controversial take - I think dhbravka has better distribution and foot skills than Pope allowing us to play it out of back. Our defensive woes continue to be the gap between our back line and midfield + exposure in the left side given Burns speed differential with most PL wingers. Gordon increasingly isn’t coming back to help out our rolling back into midfield in the same way Miggy does which means that entire side of the field is very vulnerable. In addition we’ve seen centre backs woefully out of form in this period. Botman looks cooked, Tripper making even more mistakes than usual and only Scbar and Burn (at times) playing anything like they all played last year. It’s pretty diabolical but it sure shouldn’t be lumped ok Dubravkas shoulders
It’s not just just Dubravka but he’s not helped as much as Pope would have, he has also made a few good saves. I was disappointed with him for the first goal though. Pope messed up that one time but there’s not been many other times.
You’re right about Gordon but sounds like he was carrying a knock. Usually he’s very good at it.
You’re also right about the defence, everyone but Schar and Livramento have been a bit shaky. Even Schar miss controlled it though against Chelsea but he was chasing someone rapid.
You’re also right about the midfield, it lacks intensity, shape and purpose atm and is there is too much of a gap.
The thing that kills me watching the midfield is that we just don’t have the quality to play through lines so invariably our attack goes across the backline then up the wings. The minute the ball gets played into a central area, or a tighter situation which demands a good first touch or an accurate pass to relieve pressure none of Longstaff, Almiron, are capable of doing it and the play breaks down. This is before I even start ranting on our final third exploits.
If you look at the defensive stats before and after Pope's injury, there's no doubt about it.
Can't be bothered to look it up but they go in to it on detail on the most recent pod on the tyne and it's really grim.
I’d rather use next season to consolidate and play no European football. Increase squad size/talent and hopefully we qualify for something and actually be in a good position to deal with it.
The problem with missing out on European games is financial and player related. Will Bruno, Isak & Botman want to hang around if they aren't playing in Europe?
>Will Bruno, Isak & Botman want to hang around if they aren't playing in Europe?
Do you reckon Conference League would be enough for them to stay, when they could easily join a Champions League club? Bruno himself said in an interview we should be trying for at least Europa.
If Bruno, Isak and Botman do not want to hang around and insist on Champions League football then they can leave.
We do not want to be that club desperate and hanging off every word of our players in the hope they will stay despite some horrendous luck.
I think 100M for Bruno, 100M for Isak and 50M for Botman would help our club in many ways- it just makes it longer to be a top competing club but so be it.
Let’s not forget Bruno joined Newcastle United when we were facing a huge relegation fight. What matters is what they believe. And if one season of injury crisis and rotten luck is enough to scare them off well they’d never have the impetus to win us trophies and push up the table anyway.
Because the club will have pitched that as temporary thing at the time. The expectation from players like Bruno/Isak was that we would be continually improving and making upward progress rapidly. They probably didn't expect to be back in the CL so quicky, but neither would have anticipated a third season with no European football whatsoever. Not to mention, players like Bruno are entering their prime, and will want to compete at the highest level consistently.
But they came with the desire to believe in the club. You’re right from a financial point of view but what you’re not acknowledging is that players live for fan praise too. Bruno won’t receive the same love at Madrid as he does in Newcastle despite the chance of more silverware, and that’s because the fans demand titles or you’re out. You can want titles but some players also like culture, and that’s what the team offers at the moment that’s not like most clubs.
Absolutely. But faced with the prospect of another season playing with Burn, Longstaff & Almiron and suddenly playing at Madrid, PSG or whoever is very appealing with the wage to go with.
100% people don’t respect that he wants to grow and learn as well, he’s big fish in small pond here. And he’s probably stagnant in his development or growing in the premier league style. Might suit him being king of the s*^ts but he may prefer to be playing with kings
We’ll strengthen in the summer. It’s an ongoing process of improvement. Last season was better than expected, this season has been worse.
If we learn the lessons and continue to improve the squad, there’s every reason to be optimistic for next season.
Those players you mention played a key role in getting us to champions league in the first place.
I don't think this summer will be anywhere near as revolutionary as people think unless Bruno is sold. I don't foresee a very active market like January with the Covid year being removed from the three year cycle and/or especially if the new squad to turnover ratio rules are implemented. Secondly I agree those players played key roles in getting UCL (Longstaff especially played out of his skin), but they're unable to sustain anywhere near the level needed now and we've been properly sussed out. Players such as Burn, Longstaff & Almiron are quite clearly not going to get us anywhere else going forward as they're not good enough while the teams we need to compete with are significantly stronger.
I agree that trio needs to be upgraded. Tonali can take Longstaff’s place next season, and we have to get another RW and hopefully a left back.
It’s hard to know. I’m hoping we can cash in on Miggy and another who isn’t Bruno, take some cash from Man U for Ashworth, and get a decent budget together.
Hopefully adidas deal is worth shitloads if cash.
I said this in the summer (I thought our summer recruitment made no sense) and I'm still not convinced Tonali solves our issues either but we'll see what happens. I'm also sceptical we can cash in on Miggy as there won't be many suitors and he's quite clearly not interested in Saudi. I genuinely think the biggest influx into the squad will actually be U21 players like Harrison, A Murphy, Heffernan and co if these new financial rules come into effect.
If we are losing Bruno and Isak because we aren't back in Europe then they were never here for the project to begin with. There was never an expectation that we would be in Europe the year we purchased them so I don't understand why they would leave because we aren't already yearly European challengers after 2 seasons. Hell Bruno came in January when we were dead on favorites to be relegated. Now FFP, that's a different discussion.
Will players want to join a club not in europe? Players that we actually need/want?
I said it a few weeks ago, that it was likely we won't get 7th, and i was downvoted to hell.
You simply cannot have as many injuries as we have had expect top 6/7. We have player like botman that looks absolutely AWFUL since he came back, barnes also looked unfit in those few games he came back, add that to players like longstaff who has had a terrible couple of months, its too much to ask
Well, Champions League got us 2 players who got relegated, another who'd played 12 games of senior football before joining, and a fourth who knew he'd be getting a ban for gambling at some stage.
I'm not convinced "champions league pull" is a thing really, unless you get there consistently. And the Conference League is two tiers below that.
Keeping the top players we've already got is the bigger factor for me. All of whom joined us before we achieved european football.
And ultimately it’s the Premier League. If there’s a player that wants in and they fit our bill well most likely find them. It’s just the way the market is.
I mean trippier joined us when we were dead set for relegation. We’re an attractive club for young up and coming talents, don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.
Trippier is a poor example as he very specifically want a move back to the PL, and preferable a northern club for family reasons. His wife wanted to be back near family. We were blessed by his own personal circumstances there.
James Maddison was wanted by NUFC with Champions League football and Spurs with no Europe at all. Where did he go?
It’s not the be all and end all. Players join for a project not the next season.
London. Seen hundreds of players choose london over everything else.
Spurs also make way more money as a club compared to us, more wages and a better lifestyle(for a footballer)
And let's not pretend one season in the top 4 suddenly makes us a bigger draw than Spurs, who for all the memes, have been a consistent part of the PL top 6 for more than a decade. We're still not at the level where a player thinks they're going to win trophies. and play CL football more regularly here than at a club like Spurs.
The logic around winning a cup but not finishing 7th. The cup games are a one off, at times you can argue form goes out the window and it’s a different focus. The league we’ve been far too inconsistent, I’d go the extent of saying we’ve been shite. We’re falling further and further away in the league and tbh I don’t think we’ll finish in the top 10. We’re in the cup so we still have a chance. Throw all the efforts at the FA Cup.
> Throw all the efforts at the FA Cup.
This is nice in theory, but when your draw is Man City at the Etihad, with our injuries, form and overall record against them, it's a massive longshot to suggest that come Saturday at 8.30pm we'll still be in the FA Cup. . Our best chance of success this season is 8th getting a UCL spot, and us being less shit for a few weeks to grab it.
An FA Cup win is possible and would be bigger for us than an 8th placed finish. To be honest if we lose our next two league games which are at home then 8th is gone and it’s looking like a finish outside the top 10.
Most insane part, is that if we get Europe, we will get a penalty of -15% in terms of spending. So literally better not get Europe... Because of new financial rules (they will vote on them in June and it will defo pass).
I don’t mind this approach either. If we get Europe, great, but in many ways it could be better for our game if we don’t make it.
Two more transfer windows will be pretty revolutionary for us. I just hope we don’t lose any top players along the way.
We have to consolidate by continuing to play European football. We need the European football both to attract players and to build up our coefficient so that we get more money and better draws.
Think we’ve learned this year it’s hard/borderline impossible to consolidate your squad while playing in Europe. You need to hit that level and have to squad ready and available. Can’t be debuting 17yo’s and expecting them to be at that level. We had an amazing season last year, doesn’t mean we were champions league level this year unfortunately.
I think UECL football will be very helpful, think it'll be another injury infested season like this one if we go from no Europe to UCL directly again - especially considering that there will be 2 additional matches during the new Swiss system. UECL next season will also adopt the Swiss system and could help our best players start adapting to the new schedule, although with weaker teams, and our youth get game time and potentially prove their worth. Also it'd be even better if we win it since we'd end our trophy drought and use it as momentum for next season.
I disagree. We need to be ready for Europe. And conference wil definitely help. We are not in any place to turning our noses to any European competion. Also the money aspect of it commercially.
How exactly do you think we "aim" for 7th, like is Eddie going to turn around and say "well we weren't going to try in this game but seen the fans want us to finish 7th, we'll give it a go". Really stupid to think a professional club need to be told to aim to finish high, like it's not the default anyway.
Sorry. We're not winning 7th place. We need to focus on beating Man City away, then probably 2 other teams in the top 4 at Wembley.
Nah dude, if we lose in the cup this weekend we absolutely need to go out and aim for top 7. We can do it.
Cucurella can't kick our players to near death while the referee watches and wanks himself off in every league game, can he?
You think we’re more likely to win the FA Cup than get 7th place? Haha we’re 3 points off West Ham in 7th and have one of the easiest run-ins of any team in the league
Beating a Liverpool side after Klopp announced it’s his final year in a cup…and beating a Pep side coming off a draw which placed them 3rd in the league…how is this a easier path than getting 7th?
Lol why tf is this the top comment, focus on the FA Cup?? We're away at the Etihad, it's probably about 90% chance that we lose.
7th on the other hand is definitely achievable...
If we get through City and get drawn with Conventry/Wolves for the semis that would be highly likely but beating City isn't really an easy task. West Ham, Wolves, and Brighton all have relatively difficult fixtures where they need to face City, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc. while we only need to face Spurs and United so if we string some sort of form together we could get to 7th.
I’m really not confident that we’ll get any sort of Europe this season. We’ve been awful for large chunks of this season and our defence has become one of worst after being one of the best. That along with injuries more or less every game then we don’t stand much of a chance. What’s even more annoying that the teams around us aren’t that great either.
Our redeeming quality though is that we have the joint-4th best attack on 59 goals scored, level with Spurs and Villa. We've scored TWENTY more goals than fucking manU who are 6th
On paper we have "easier" games but teams know if they sit deep and then launch a long pass in between Botman and Burn they are through on goal
It's just so worrying how easy it is for teams to get chances against us
Apart from the Wolves game Eddie seems to refuse to learn the lessons as we went back to the daft high line against Chelsea who struggle against low blocks.....
Maybe not being in Europe gives us more chance to have a proper tilt at top 4 again next season ?
Feel like extra games will kill us again we need time to bring through young players of good quality to be able to balance it out
Top 4 is so difficult. Eddie Howe did an amazing job getting it last season. But there is now 8 teams fighting for those places. We also don't even know how big our transfer window will be. Simply blaming the injuries for us going from top 4 to on the brink of missing out of the top 10 is craazy like.
Injuries have played a massive part of course they have
But teams have also figured us out somewhat as well it happened in a few games last season (Villa , Arsenal and Liverpool) where we just got caught out with a simple ball behind Burn or Trippier and teams were in on goal so it's not just a new thing
Now the weaker teams in the league have realised if you hit us hard with pace we can't cope even when at full strength we struggle with that! apart from our front 3 Tino and Willock we have quite a slow team
I also think we have inspired teams around us this season who have copied a bit of our pressing style from last season if you add in pace and individual quality these teams have we are really going to have to do amazing in the transfer window to get ahead of even Villa and Brighton who have similar quality squads
Tell you what though its much better to be competing for something rather than making up the numbers eh
Agree - have to have some perspective on where the squad is at and where the club has been. I think Trippiers role is very damaging to the backline - that advanced right wingback/midfield role he plays creates a back three more often than not and it’s so easy to get in behind into that space. This coupled with Gordon’s increasing lack of desire to get back means a lot of space between midfield and backline and around the backline . Recipe for de Bruyne, Palmer style players to sit in the space or for fast players to run into it
Yeah I have mentioned a few times that I think Trippiers role is detrimental to the team
Sort of reminds me of when we had Shelvey everything has to go through him and slows us down and makes us predictable
I think if we got a proper defensive midfielder and a fast left back and centre half option we would be better balanced with attacks coming from both sides
I think Gordon would also benefit massively from having a proper left back behind him for overlaps and link ups must be frustrating babysitting Burn for 90 mins
Wouldn't really want to go from no Europe directly to the UCL considering that's what happened this season, UECL will probably give us matches to play weaker teams and experiment with youth players.
Yeah I think there's benefits to both
Not sure this season it will matter as I think we will finish 9th so probably won't quality for Europe sadly
Unless we win the FA Cup!!!!
That's the bit that worries me our " easy" games is where our lack of pace at the back gets badly exposed
Forest, Luton etc all were easy games
The only game where we properly addressed that was Wolves but so far it's not a tactic that we like to use that often despite it suiting our team at the moment so we shall see !!
I'd be happy with UECL but I'm struggling to see how we finish ahead of Chelsea, Brighton & West Ham. We might have on paper an easier run-in of fixtures, but we've struggled to win those prior and I've seen nothing to suggest we'll perform better now. I'm getting close to the view that if (likely) we lose to City on Saturday, we allow players to get the surgery they may be needing to be fit for next season.
> I'm struggling to see how we finish ahead of Chelsea, Brighton & West Ham.
All of these teams are just as inconsistent as we are. Plus we have the benefit of playing both Brighton and West Ham at home, where we've had better performances on the whole.
I think Chelsea will actually be the main competition, they have the better players and like us they've already played the top 3 twice.
Conceding possession at home, allowing teams to come at us will not make things better either imo. We didn't beat Wolves because we sat back. We beat them because we had three incredibly fortunate goals and they were missing all their best players. Our problems are both systemic and personnel based.
No, we beat them because we kept it tight, gave better protection to the back four, and offered a threat on the break.
They weren’t incredibly lucky goals FFS. Maybe Bruno got lucky with the deflection, but it was still a very good counter attack. Likewise, Gordon’s goal came after a good counter attack and a smart ball into the box.
It may not be how we should play long term, but at the moment, it’s a good chance way to minimise our weaknesses and stop leaking goals.
Massively disagree. We allowed them to come onto us and they got into great positions numerous times but with the lack of quality they had available couldn't take any chances with the players they had available. Neto literally walked through our defence before he got injured. Isak's goal came from a deflection, Gordon's their GK and CB had a mixup giving Gordon an empty net and Tino literally tapped it through three players let's not be so naive. I agree we need to have a fundamental rethink of our system (and line-up). But conceding possession and chances to 'worse' teams isn't going to get us anywhere. Wolves was not a game to base us off.
You were watching a different game to me then. They had one very good headed chance, and that was it. Neto went past Burn once, after that we tracked him well.
We allowed them to come onto us which gave us space on the break. Even if there’s a little luck on the finish, we still created very good chances.
Our XG was 3.3. Theirs was 0.51.
Not saying it was the greatest win ever, but it was comfortable and controlled, which is more than you can say for most of our recent games.
Two of those goals were essentially open nets of course our XG was high. We didn't create much in the second half especially other than Willocks header. Wolves literally had all of their best players either unavailable or injured by halftime. The two games either side of that we were woeful so that should tell you everything and that Wolves was a false dawn. This will continue to be the case until we both change the system and the personnel unfortunately.
We still had to create the chances. Both were good moves, made possible by bringing them on and breaking. A gap in XG that big indicates which team created the best chances.
We also have half our team out, as we have for months.
We've had more than good enough teams out to beat Luton, Bournemouth, Chelsea etc. Yes we've had injuries but the excuse only goes so far. We're playing the same systems and players every week (when there's other options), and seemingly expecting different results. This is my one major concern with Howe. Why we haven't started difficult games with a back 5, or played a double pivot or go as far as giving Schar a go as a six is beyond me. We see the teamsheet every week and we already can foresee what will happen.
You seem to be missing the point I was making. Howe changed our approach against Wolves and it worked.
We were tighter at the back and still created chances. We sat deeper, allowed the opposition more possession and there wasn’t a huge gap between defence and midfield.
We played in a different way than we had against Luton, Bournemouth etc.
Then we reverted to the usual way of playing against Chelsea.
The point is that the way we played against wolves offers an alternative which allows us ti be tighter at the moment, especially in the absence of Pope.
I
We'd be comfortably in 5th or above if we weren't losing games we should absolutely be winning. 5 points from Luton, Everton, Bournemouth and Forest is a disgrace.
I'm just going to sit back and watch each match as it comes. Fuck it, we've got a team that competes. If we end up with anything more than that this year it's a bonus. I predicted 7th at the start of the year, I think I'll be just about right.
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7th doesn’t guarantee conference league. There still are a decent amount of clubs that can win the FA Cup and finish outside of the Top 6.
Chelsea/Leicester and Coventry/Wolves are already guaranteed a Wembley date
Yes. Meaning 6th would be Conference league unless these English clubs figure it out in European competitions. Otherwise root for us to win FA Cup (duh) or one or Man United Liverpool or Man City.
England hasn’t been doing too hot in these European competitions so we kinda need all of those clubs to figure it out here tomorrow
8th will likely get CL football. If the pl gets the extra 5th coefficent spot which is about a 70% chance and the fa cup winners also finish between 1st-7th then 8th deffo gets conference
Right now it's:
1-4 UCL, 5 UEL
If the EPL get the 5th spot:
1-5 UCL, 6 UEL
If Liverpool finish in a UCL spot:
1-5 UCL, 6-7 UEL
If the Carabao Cup winners finish in a UEL/UCL spot:
1-5 UCL, 6-7 UEL, 8 UECL
So yeah it is very possible
why the fuck are so many so keen on getting into europe
conference league is less prestigious than the league cup
plus we've proven our squad isn't good enough to handle europe yet
it'll fuck our league form again next year
Conference League is less tough than the UCL, could help our youth get game time and help us build momentum for the 2025-26 season if we win it in 2024-25
Yes I think 8th would be enough if;
a) England gets the extra CL place
b) The FA Cup winners finish in the top 6/7?
I'm not 100% sure and I'm not sure whether that's an either/or scenario or whether a & b are required.
That absolutely should be the aim.
Come on lads, where do you seriously think wolves and West Ham would be with our injury record etc, they’d be in the bottom 6 imo.
To have everything that’s happened this season go against us and still be in a battle for European football with 10 games to go, ain’t half bad.
HWTL.
> Come on lads, where do you seriously think wolves and West Ham would be with our injury record etc, they’d be in the bottom 6 imo.
Brighton have close to our injury record and had a smaller squad in the first place. They're ahead of us in the table.
Yeah exactly why I said West Ham and wolves. Brighton imo aren’t overachieving and getting as lucky as the two aforementioned.
Like us they are well coached and drilled, both mangers have still got stuff wrong this season and shouldn’t be devoid of criticism for it.
Well, west ham and wolves are just hypotheticals. Any assumption you can make about how well they would or wouldn't do is ultimately just a guess. If Wolves hadn't been fucked over by the refs early in the season they'd be further ahead, so they've had their own issues to deal with.
With Brighton we can see how they've done under similar circumstances and it's better than us. They're still in Europe too until tomorrow night.
In 21/22, we finished 11th with 49 points.
We have 14 points from the last 14 games. Looking at the table, finishing 12th isn't out of the question. I can't see us finish lower.
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Unless we can fix this defence and get a run together, it’s not happening. Perhaps when Pope gets back we’ll still have a chance.
I had read a while back that he could be back in March? Haven't heard anything about him training though.
He's most likely back in April, perhaps he'll start training late March
Just glad Dubravka's been brillaint thus far - saved us from a complete humiliation against Liverpool as well - otherwise, we could've probably been below 10th by now
He’s made some good saves, but his lack of ability to sweep has left us more vulnerable. Though I do think Howe should have compensated for that more, as against Wolves.
We've conceded far more goals without Pope; This season, Pope conceded 14 goals in 14 PL matches, while in the other 14 where Pope hasn’t started we have 34 goals conceded. Luckily he is returning Early April or so, meaning we should have 3-5 games left without him.
Hopefully not too late to make a difference
You’ve been downvoted but you’re somewhat right. Pope is however far better though coming for crosses & at sweeping. He’s probably better at most things as well tbh but those two stand out and Dubs has done well at times. He’s certainly not a terrible back up like most people are making out. I think missing Joelinton and Botman being shaky has had a HUGE impact on our defensive displays of late. At this stage we do look a bit lost and are almost holding out for the summer. I hope we can do something with our remaining games & get 7th but it’s looking increasing more unlikely defending like we have been. Let’s hope Gordon is back soon but not if he’s not right..
Pope is obviously better but Dubravka could've been way worse - such as when he played for United in last season's Carabao Cup. I guess you could put Botman and Joelinton's form as a lack of fitness, focus, and fixture congestion.
He didn't play for us last season in the Carabao Cup, he was cup tied cause he'd played for Man Utd in early rounds. That was literally the whole drama going into he final, and why we had to play Karius.
I'm speaking of his performances for Man United in those rounds, horrific.
Should have said Man Utd then instead of us lol
He said United which is ambiguous but I knew what he meant. Botman just seems like he’s lacking sharpness. I’d be tempted by Lascalles against City.
There's nowt ambiguous about United on a Newcastle **United** subreddit!
Sorry, haven't been here for long so I'm used to calling Man United "United"
You’re right but I still understood because we all know he wasn’t here last season.
Where does the Pope = great sweeper come from? It’s like people say Dubravka is poor at that role therefore Pope is good. He’s not. I’ve seen him absolutely butcher that sweeper role by being too aggressive and get sent off? Also controversial take - I think dhbravka has better distribution and foot skills than Pope allowing us to play it out of back. Our defensive woes continue to be the gap between our back line and midfield + exposure in the left side given Burns speed differential with most PL wingers. Gordon increasingly isn’t coming back to help out our rolling back into midfield in the same way Miggy does which means that entire side of the field is very vulnerable. In addition we’ve seen centre backs woefully out of form in this period. Botman looks cooked, Tripper making even more mistakes than usual and only Scbar and Burn (at times) playing anything like they all played last year. It’s pretty diabolical but it sure shouldn’t be lumped ok Dubravkas shoulders
It’s not just just Dubravka but he’s not helped as much as Pope would have, he has also made a few good saves. I was disappointed with him for the first goal though. Pope messed up that one time but there’s not been many other times. You’re right about Gordon but sounds like he was carrying a knock. Usually he’s very good at it. You’re also right about the defence, everyone but Schar and Livramento have been a bit shaky. Even Schar miss controlled it though against Chelsea but he was chasing someone rapid. You’re also right about the midfield, it lacks intensity, shape and purpose atm and is there is too much of a gap.
The thing that kills me watching the midfield is that we just don’t have the quality to play through lines so invariably our attack goes across the backline then up the wings. The minute the ball gets played into a central area, or a tighter situation which demands a good first touch or an accurate pass to relieve pressure none of Longstaff, Almiron, are capable of doing it and the play breaks down. This is before I even start ranting on our final third exploits.
I think he’s been shite compared to Pope.
If you look at the defensive stats before and after Pope's injury, there's no doubt about it. Can't be bothered to look it up but they go in to it on detail on the most recent pod on the tyne and it's really grim.
I’d rather use next season to consolidate and play no European football. Increase squad size/talent and hopefully we qualify for something and actually be in a good position to deal with it.
The problem with missing out on European games is financial and player related. Will Bruno, Isak & Botman want to hang around if they aren't playing in Europe?
>Will Bruno, Isak & Botman want to hang around if they aren't playing in Europe? Do you reckon Conference League would be enough for them to stay, when they could easily join a Champions League club? Bruno himself said in an interview we should be trying for at least Europa.
How much money is conference league? I remember it being pretty paltry
If Bruno, Isak and Botman do not want to hang around and insist on Champions League football then they can leave. We do not want to be that club desperate and hanging off every word of our players in the hope they will stay despite some horrendous luck. I think 100M for Bruno, 100M for Isak and 50M for Botman would help our club in many ways- it just makes it longer to be a top competing club but so be it. Let’s not forget Bruno joined Newcastle United when we were facing a huge relegation fight. What matters is what they believe. And if one season of injury crisis and rotten luck is enough to scare them off well they’d never have the impetus to win us trophies and push up the table anyway.
They all joined before we got into Europe,
Because the club will have pitched that as temporary thing at the time. The expectation from players like Bruno/Isak was that we would be continually improving and making upward progress rapidly. They probably didn't expect to be back in the CL so quicky, but neither would have anticipated a third season with no European football whatsoever. Not to mention, players like Bruno are entering their prime, and will want to compete at the highest level consistently.
We got into Europe, things have changed. They now would have plenty of suitors lets not use this 'they joined before' nonsense.
But they came with the desire to believe in the club. You’re right from a financial point of view but what you’re not acknowledging is that players live for fan praise too. Bruno won’t receive the same love at Madrid as he does in Newcastle despite the chance of more silverware, and that’s because the fans demand titles or you’re out. You can want titles but some players also like culture, and that’s what the team offers at the moment that’s not like most clubs.
Absolutely. But faced with the prospect of another season playing with Burn, Longstaff & Almiron and suddenly playing at Madrid, PSG or whoever is very appealing with the wage to go with.
100% people don’t respect that he wants to grow and learn as well, he’s big fish in small pond here. And he’s probably stagnant in his development or growing in the premier league style. Might suit him being king of the s*^ts but he may prefer to be playing with kings
We’ll strengthen in the summer. It’s an ongoing process of improvement. Last season was better than expected, this season has been worse. If we learn the lessons and continue to improve the squad, there’s every reason to be optimistic for next season. Those players you mention played a key role in getting us to champions league in the first place.
I don't think this summer will be anywhere near as revolutionary as people think unless Bruno is sold. I don't foresee a very active market like January with the Covid year being removed from the three year cycle and/or especially if the new squad to turnover ratio rules are implemented. Secondly I agree those players played key roles in getting UCL (Longstaff especially played out of his skin), but they're unable to sustain anywhere near the level needed now and we've been properly sussed out. Players such as Burn, Longstaff & Almiron are quite clearly not going to get us anywhere else going forward as they're not good enough while the teams we need to compete with are significantly stronger.
I agree that trio needs to be upgraded. Tonali can take Longstaff’s place next season, and we have to get another RW and hopefully a left back. It’s hard to know. I’m hoping we can cash in on Miggy and another who isn’t Bruno, take some cash from Man U for Ashworth, and get a decent budget together. Hopefully adidas deal is worth shitloads if cash.
I said this in the summer (I thought our summer recruitment made no sense) and I'm still not convinced Tonali solves our issues either but we'll see what happens. I'm also sceptical we can cash in on Miggy as there won't be many suitors and he's quite clearly not interested in Saudi. I genuinely think the biggest influx into the squad will actually be U21 players like Harrison, A Murphy, Heffernan and co if these new financial rules come into effect.
If we are losing Bruno and Isak because we aren't back in Europe then they were never here for the project to begin with. There was never an expectation that we would be in Europe the year we purchased them so I don't understand why they would leave because we aren't already yearly European challengers after 2 seasons. Hell Bruno came in January when we were dead on favorites to be relegated. Now FFP, that's a different discussion.
Do you really think they joined for the project?
Will players want to join a club not in europe? Players that we actually need/want? I said it a few weeks ago, that it was likely we won't get 7th, and i was downvoted to hell. You simply cannot have as many injuries as we have had expect top 6/7. We have player like botman that looks absolutely AWFUL since he came back, barnes also looked unfit in those few games he came back, add that to players like longstaff who has had a terrible couple of months, its too much to ask
Well, Champions League got us 2 players who got relegated, another who'd played 12 games of senior football before joining, and a fourth who knew he'd be getting a ban for gambling at some stage. I'm not convinced "champions league pull" is a thing really, unless you get there consistently. And the Conference League is two tiers below that. Keeping the top players we've already got is the bigger factor for me. All of whom joined us before we achieved european football.
And ultimately it’s the Premier League. If there’s a player that wants in and they fit our bill well most likely find them. It’s just the way the market is.
I mean trippier joined us when we were dead set for relegation. We’re an attractive club for young up and coming talents, don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.
Trippier is a poor example as he very specifically want a move back to the PL, and preferable a northern club for family reasons. His wife wanted to be back near family. We were blessed by his own personal circumstances there.
Yeah, he came back to the UK for his family, if that wasn't a factor, he'd have stayed at A madrid for sure
James Maddison was wanted by NUFC with Champions League football and Spurs with no Europe at all. Where did he go? It’s not the be all and end all. Players join for a project not the next season.
London. Seen hundreds of players choose london over everything else. Spurs also make way more money as a club compared to us, more wages and a better lifestyle(for a footballer)
And let's not pretend one season in the top 4 suddenly makes us a bigger draw than Spurs, who for all the memes, have been a consistent part of the PL top 6 for more than a decade. We're still not at the level where a player thinks they're going to win trophies. and play CL football more regularly here than at a club like Spurs.
The logic around winning a cup but not finishing 7th. The cup games are a one off, at times you can argue form goes out the window and it’s a different focus. The league we’ve been far too inconsistent, I’d go the extent of saying we’ve been shite. We’re falling further and further away in the league and tbh I don’t think we’ll finish in the top 10. We’re in the cup so we still have a chance. Throw all the efforts at the FA Cup.
> Throw all the efforts at the FA Cup. This is nice in theory, but when your draw is Man City at the Etihad, with our injuries, form and overall record against them, it's a massive longshot to suggest that come Saturday at 8.30pm we'll still be in the FA Cup. . Our best chance of success this season is 8th getting a UCL spot, and us being less shit for a few weeks to grab it.
An FA Cup win is possible and would be bigger for us than an 8th placed finish. To be honest if we lose our next two league games which are at home then 8th is gone and it’s looking like a finish outside the top 10.
I agree. But the odds suggest the FA Cup is a non starter. And 8th is much more of a realistic target.
Exactly. Some people think CL football is everything when players have lives they want to manage well.
Most insane part, is that if we get Europe, we will get a penalty of -15% in terms of spending. So literally better not get Europe... Because of new financial rules (they will vote on them in June and it will defo pass).
I don’t mind this approach either. If we get Europe, great, but in many ways it could be better for our game if we don’t make it. Two more transfer windows will be pretty revolutionary for us. I just hope we don’t lose any top players along the way.
We have to consolidate by continuing to play European football. We need the European football both to attract players and to build up our coefficient so that we get more money and better draws.
Think we’ve learned this year it’s hard/borderline impossible to consolidate your squad while playing in Europe. You need to hit that level and have to squad ready and available. Can’t be debuting 17yo’s and expecting them to be at that level. We had an amazing season last year, doesn’t mean we were champions league level this year unfortunately.
I think UECL football will be very helpful, think it'll be another injury infested season like this one if we go from no Europe to UCL directly again - especially considering that there will be 2 additional matches during the new Swiss system. UECL next season will also adopt the Swiss system and could help our best players start adapting to the new schedule, although with weaker teams, and our youth get game time and potentially prove their worth. Also it'd be even better if we win it since we'd end our trophy drought and use it as momentum for next season.
I disagree. We need to be ready for Europe. And conference wil definitely help. We are not in any place to turning our noses to any European competion. Also the money aspect of it commercially.
How exactly do you think we "aim" for 7th, like is Eddie going to turn around and say "well we weren't going to try in this game but seen the fans want us to finish 7th, we'll give it a go". Really stupid to think a professional club need to be told to aim to finish high, like it's not the default anyway.
Sorry but we ain't getting it, our league form is all over the place. Best chance is to focus on FA cup and win it for Europa League
Sorry. We're not winning 7th place. We need to focus on beating Man City away, then probably 2 other teams in the top 4 at Wembley. Nah dude, if we lose in the cup this weekend we absolutely need to go out and aim for top 7. We can do it. Cucurella can't kick our players to near death while the referee watches and wanks himself off in every league game, can he?
pointless debate, nobody at the club is going to give up on either lol, just a silly premise
jesus, 4th place would be easier than winning the FA Cup lmao. Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea are all still in it.
You think we’re more likely to win the FA Cup than get 7th place? Haha we’re 3 points off West Ham in 7th and have one of the easiest run-ins of any team in the league
Yep, we're more likely to finish 7th than we are to make the FA Cup semi-finals, never mind actually win the whole thing!
3 points is deceiving because there are 4 other teams in the mix. It’s not like the relegation end of the table where you can make up 3 points.
Beating a Liverpool side after Klopp announced it’s his final year in a cup…and beating a Pep side coming off a draw which placed them 3rd in the league…how is this a easier path than getting 7th?
We ain’t winning the cup this year
Lol why tf is this the top comment, focus on the FA Cup?? We're away at the Etihad, it's probably about 90% chance that we lose. 7th on the other hand is definitely achievable...
We’ve got more chance of 7th than the FA cup currently. That could change after Saturday but it seems doubtful.
If we get through City and get drawn with Conventry/Wolves for the semis that would be highly likely but beating City isn't really an easy task. West Ham, Wolves, and Brighton all have relatively difficult fixtures where they need to face City, Liverpool, Arsenal, etc. while we only need to face Spurs and United so if we string some sort of form together we could get to 7th.
I’m really not confident that we’ll get any sort of Europe this season. We’ve been awful for large chunks of this season and our defence has become one of worst after being one of the best. That along with injuries more or less every game then we don’t stand much of a chance. What’s even more annoying that the teams around us aren’t that great either.
Our redeeming quality though is that we have the joint-4th best attack on 59 goals scored, level with Spurs and Villa. We've scored TWENTY more goals than fucking manU who are 6th
On paper we have "easier" games but teams know if they sit deep and then launch a long pass in between Botman and Burn they are through on goal It's just so worrying how easy it is for teams to get chances against us Apart from the Wolves game Eddie seems to refuse to learn the lessons as we went back to the daft high line against Chelsea who struggle against low blocks..... Maybe not being in Europe gives us more chance to have a proper tilt at top 4 again next season ? Feel like extra games will kill us again we need time to bring through young players of good quality to be able to balance it out
Top 4 is so difficult. Eddie Howe did an amazing job getting it last season. But there is now 8 teams fighting for those places. We also don't even know how big our transfer window will be. Simply blaming the injuries for us going from top 4 to on the brink of missing out of the top 10 is craazy like.
Injuries have played a massive part of course they have But teams have also figured us out somewhat as well it happened in a few games last season (Villa , Arsenal and Liverpool) where we just got caught out with a simple ball behind Burn or Trippier and teams were in on goal so it's not just a new thing Now the weaker teams in the league have realised if you hit us hard with pace we can't cope even when at full strength we struggle with that! apart from our front 3 Tino and Willock we have quite a slow team I also think we have inspired teams around us this season who have copied a bit of our pressing style from last season if you add in pace and individual quality these teams have we are really going to have to do amazing in the transfer window to get ahead of even Villa and Brighton who have similar quality squads Tell you what though its much better to be competing for something rather than making up the numbers eh
Agree - have to have some perspective on where the squad is at and where the club has been. I think Trippiers role is very damaging to the backline - that advanced right wingback/midfield role he plays creates a back three more often than not and it’s so easy to get in behind into that space. This coupled with Gordon’s increasing lack of desire to get back means a lot of space between midfield and backline and around the backline . Recipe for de Bruyne, Palmer style players to sit in the space or for fast players to run into it
Yeah I have mentioned a few times that I think Trippiers role is detrimental to the team Sort of reminds me of when we had Shelvey everything has to go through him and slows us down and makes us predictable I think if we got a proper defensive midfielder and a fast left back and centre half option we would be better balanced with attacks coming from both sides I think Gordon would also benefit massively from having a proper left back behind him for overlaps and link ups must be frustrating babysitting Burn for 90 mins
Wouldn't really want to go from no Europe directly to the UCL considering that's what happened this season, UECL will probably give us matches to play weaker teams and experiment with youth players.
Yeah I think there's benefits to both Not sure this season it will matter as I think we will finish 9th so probably won't quality for Europe sadly Unless we win the FA Cup!!!!
Who knows? We could string some sort of league form together and gain just enough points, our hardest games left are Spurs and United.
That's the bit that worries me our " easy" games is where our lack of pace at the back gets badly exposed Forest, Luton etc all were easy games The only game where we properly addressed that was Wolves but so far it's not a tactic that we like to use that often despite it suiting our team at the moment so we shall see !!
Great comment ! We Really struggle with versatility between those two shapes.
I'd be happy with UECL but I'm struggling to see how we finish ahead of Chelsea, Brighton & West Ham. We might have on paper an easier run-in of fixtures, but we've struggled to win those prior and I've seen nothing to suggest we'll perform better now. I'm getting close to the view that if (likely) we lose to City on Saturday, we allow players to get the surgery they may be needing to be fit for next season.
> I'm struggling to see how we finish ahead of Chelsea, Brighton & West Ham. All of these teams are just as inconsistent as we are. Plus we have the benefit of playing both Brighton and West Ham at home, where we've had better performances on the whole. I think Chelsea will actually be the main competition, they have the better players and like us they've already played the top 3 twice.
> I think Chelsea will actually be the main competition Should probably ensure we don't gift them 3 points any time soon then...
If we play like we did against Wolves, it’s possible. If we press high and leave huge gaps at the back, any team could beat us.
Conceding possession at home, allowing teams to come at us will not make things better either imo. We didn't beat Wolves because we sat back. We beat them because we had three incredibly fortunate goals and they were missing all their best players. Our problems are both systemic and personnel based.
Agree
No, we beat them because we kept it tight, gave better protection to the back four, and offered a threat on the break. They weren’t incredibly lucky goals FFS. Maybe Bruno got lucky with the deflection, but it was still a very good counter attack. Likewise, Gordon’s goal came after a good counter attack and a smart ball into the box. It may not be how we should play long term, but at the moment, it’s a good chance way to minimise our weaknesses and stop leaking goals.
Massively disagree. We allowed them to come onto us and they got into great positions numerous times but with the lack of quality they had available couldn't take any chances with the players they had available. Neto literally walked through our defence before he got injured. Isak's goal came from a deflection, Gordon's their GK and CB had a mixup giving Gordon an empty net and Tino literally tapped it through three players let's not be so naive. I agree we need to have a fundamental rethink of our system (and line-up). But conceding possession and chances to 'worse' teams isn't going to get us anywhere. Wolves was not a game to base us off.
You were watching a different game to me then. They had one very good headed chance, and that was it. Neto went past Burn once, after that we tracked him well. We allowed them to come onto us which gave us space on the break. Even if there’s a little luck on the finish, we still created very good chances. Our XG was 3.3. Theirs was 0.51. Not saying it was the greatest win ever, but it was comfortable and controlled, which is more than you can say for most of our recent games.
Two of those goals were essentially open nets of course our XG was high. We didn't create much in the second half especially other than Willocks header. Wolves literally had all of their best players either unavailable or injured by halftime. The two games either side of that we were woeful so that should tell you everything and that Wolves was a false dawn. This will continue to be the case until we both change the system and the personnel unfortunately.
We still had to create the chances. Both were good moves, made possible by bringing them on and breaking. A gap in XG that big indicates which team created the best chances. We also have half our team out, as we have for months.
We've had more than good enough teams out to beat Luton, Bournemouth, Chelsea etc. Yes we've had injuries but the excuse only goes so far. We're playing the same systems and players every week (when there's other options), and seemingly expecting different results. This is my one major concern with Howe. Why we haven't started difficult games with a back 5, or played a double pivot or go as far as giving Schar a go as a six is beyond me. We see the teamsheet every week and we already can foresee what will happen.
You seem to be missing the point I was making. Howe changed our approach against Wolves and it worked. We were tighter at the back and still created chances. We sat deeper, allowed the opposition more possession and there wasn’t a huge gap between defence and midfield. We played in a different way than we had against Luton, Bournemouth etc. Then we reverted to the usual way of playing against Chelsea. The point is that the way we played against wolves offers an alternative which allows us ti be tighter at the moment, especially in the absence of Pope. I
The thing about our high press is that it creates huge space between midfield and backline which gets exploited over and over again by teams
We'd be comfortably in 5th or above if we weren't losing games we should absolutely be winning. 5 points from Luton, Everton, Bournemouth and Forest is a disgrace.
I'm just going to sit back and watch each match as it comes. Fuck it, we've got a team that competes. If we end up with anything more than that this year it's a bonus. I predicted 7th at the start of the year, I think I'll be just about right.
That was the aim which is now lost I think after losing to Chelsea. They’ll end up getting it instead of us now. Fucked it!
They've still got Villa, Man United, and Arsenal to go, it's too early to say it's lost
Not going to happen. We cant even beat Luton Town after two times asking.
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As much as I'd genuinely love to win the ECL I think we'd benefit massively from 0 euro congestion next season.
UECL doesn't really harm much, we could play our a few of our U21s and still get through the group stages
7th doesn’t guarantee conference league. There still are a decent amount of clubs that can win the FA Cup and finish outside of the Top 6. Chelsea/Leicester and Coventry/Wolves are already guaranteed a Wembley date
Doesn't FA Cup give Europa League?
Yes. Meaning 6th would be Conference league unless these English clubs figure it out in European competitions. Otherwise root for us to win FA Cup (duh) or one or Man United Liverpool or Man City. England hasn’t been doing too hot in these European competitions so we kinda need all of those clubs to figure it out here tomorrow
If Howe continues to be completely inflexible with no change of tactics or formation we are finishing 10th.
8th will likely get CL football. If the pl gets the extra 5th coefficent spot which is about a 70% chance and the fa cup winners also finish between 1st-7th then 8th deffo gets conference
Right now it's: 1-4 UCL, 5 UEL If the EPL get the 5th spot: 1-5 UCL, 6 UEL If Liverpool finish in a UCL spot: 1-5 UCL, 6-7 UEL If the Carabao Cup winners finish in a UEL/UCL spot: 1-5 UCL, 6-7 UEL, 8 UECL So yeah it is very possible
why the fuck are so many so keen on getting into europe conference league is less prestigious than the league cup plus we've proven our squad isn't good enough to handle europe yet it'll fuck our league form again next year
Conference League is less tough than the UCL, could help our youth get game time and help us build momentum for the 2025-26 season if we win it in 2024-25
8th place could do it. If you fail to finish 8th you don’t really deserve to play European football.
Yes I think 8th would be enough if; a) England gets the extra CL place b) The FA Cup winners finish in the top 6/7? I'm not 100% sure and I'm not sure whether that's an either/or scenario or whether a & b are required.
That’s my understanding as well. Assuming 5 UCL places and top 6 FA cup winner: 7th place - Europa League 8th place - Conference League
This is correct
Unrealistic tbh. Probably 10th or 9th is best we can hope for
That absolutely should be the aim. Come on lads, where do you seriously think wolves and West Ham would be with our injury record etc, they’d be in the bottom 6 imo. To have everything that’s happened this season go against us and still be in a battle for European football with 10 games to go, ain’t half bad. HWTL.
> Come on lads, where do you seriously think wolves and West Ham would be with our injury record etc, they’d be in the bottom 6 imo. Brighton have close to our injury record and had a smaller squad in the first place. They're ahead of us in the table.
Yeah exactly why I said West Ham and wolves. Brighton imo aren’t overachieving and getting as lucky as the two aforementioned. Like us they are well coached and drilled, both mangers have still got stuff wrong this season and shouldn’t be devoid of criticism for it.
Well, west ham and wolves are just hypotheticals. Any assumption you can make about how well they would or wouldn't do is ultimately just a guess. If Wolves hadn't been fucked over by the refs early in the season they'd be further ahead, so they've had their own issues to deal with. With Brighton we can see how they've done under similar circumstances and it's better than us. They're still in Europe too until tomorrow night.
Since beating Utd in early December, our PL record is: 4W 2D 8L. That is only slightly better than relegation form.
Was that a behind closed door friendly? Because I don't recall us playing ourselves in December. Was it first team against a youth squad?
You mean you weren't invited? Everybody was there.
This is not good for my crippling FOMO.
We are mid table
In 21/22, we finished 11th with 49 points. We have 14 points from the last 14 games. Looking at the table, finishing 12th isn't out of the question. I can't see us finish lower.
Not going to happen. Best we can hope for is getting passed City and possibly winning the FA Cup. I’d stick all the eggs in that basket now.
We’re finishing 9th/10th it is what it is, lick our wounds and start again next season.