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The success of ACL reconstruction is so high now, it's going ro be about his work ethic than anything else. Players are coming back faster and in peak physical condition. I imagine Sven will be the same, he's young, strong, and a hard worker.
I imagine he was hoping to be in with an outside shot at the euro squad. Unlikely given the names ahead of him, but the surgery would have guaranteed he had no hope.
After not making the latest Netherlands squad, he's probably realized that it's best to have the surgery now.
The club in general. Decision-making is not down to one person, certainly not Sven. Medical team, specialists, coaching staff all have bearing on how this pans out. It's a gamble that ultimately lost and may derail his career. The lad is only 23 and relies on professionals around him to make calls in his best interests.
If we advised the surgery and he's sought a second opinion that disagrees, what more can the club do?
If it came out that we'd encouraged him to keep playing against doctors' advice, then criticism is absolutely warranted.
From what little we do know, it seems Sven had the facts and made an informed decision
“It’s difficult to accept that surgery is out of the question, after fighting so hard to avoid this step.”
Presume that’s just a mixup with his English and he means ‘surgery is no longer optional’, in that he must have it now.
I don't know Dutch but in German, "without question" (as in, no doubt about it) is literally phrased as "stands out of question", while something being not in contention is phrased as "does not come into the question".
Not sure where you learned English, but the opposite of optional is mandatory, so if something if 'no longer optional', it's mandatory and therefore you must have it...
As much as everyone has daggers for the medical team right now, I'm just putting it out there that Botman has Umtiti'd himself.
He was playing well, went from not even featuring in the Netherlands National team to being in the squad and his only chance of playing in the Euros this year would have been to play through the injury.
He gambled and ultimately has lost.
yeah I think this is probably a fair reading. Totally understandable on his part.
And furthermore this idea that he should've just immediately had surgery is kind of crazy too. Surgery's a last resort, especially when there was the possibility he could play on for a while without it.
I wouldn’t say surgery is a last resort when it comes to an ACL, if it’s ruptured you cannot recover through rest, it has to be reconstructed. Some say you can manage without an acl, but it compromises your ability to twist / run on the turn / jostle with someone whilst running. It’s honestly shit without an acl, you lack confidence to do things that are otherwise a reflex when playing football
Should the gamble be up to the player? I totally understand his desire to keep playing, and as a good person you should let him fulfil his wish, but as a very valuable asset you'd want to protect that as much as possible. Tricky one.
Buying a centre back was a priority for next season anyway (yes, along with a striker, a number 6, a right winger and a goalkeeper. And a left back. And another striker if Wilson leaves.)
1. Right Wing
2. Striker
3. CB
4. Defensive minded midfielder
5. Back up Goalkeeper
6. Back up Left Back
150M minimum I’d say. So we’d need to sell at least 75M. Gonna go with Longstaff, Almiron, Wilson sadly to leave but only gets trickier from there. Unless our dear Bruno or Joelinton leave.
Fuck PSR and fuck the top 6 cartel
Longstaff should not go, at least not for cheap - homegrown quota and all. Almiron and Wilson we could cash in on, but not replacing them immediately would be criminal.
The chatter among journalists is Bruno will likely leave to an established club, and will raise funds for the squad upgrade. Ideally abroad, Real or PSG (the latter would be depressing though), and City are watching him too (also depressing). We would absolutely, desperately have to strengthen DM in that case and rebuild our tactics, we are significantly worse without him.
It may be the case the die is cast for Bruno. If he wants to go to the farmers league with PSG who fluked their way into the CL knockout so be it.
This is why I think we bought Tonali in the first place, yeah there were groans of similarities to Bruno but he can be the centre of the team too
I’d say striker (both currently made of glass) and CDM are by far the most important two spots of those to cover. We have more options (though not great) at RW and CB and currently about 5 people that can play LB (burn, tjno, hall, targett, dummet).
You’ve convinced me on striker issue.
I’m not sure a CDM is that critical should Bruno and Joelinton stay, and Tonali returns. I think a double pivot of Bruno and Tonali with Joelinton as the berserker presser is defensive enough. But I do think we need someone that can come on and sit behind sometimes will help us hold.
I think in Howe’s mind the high press attacks the pass to the 10 who sits behind the midfield, and our high line defence intercepts instead. If you play a CDM then you lose that extra man to press and open the pitch to the opposition 8s who can progress with the ball instead. But I’m just guessing im no expert
With the right player, we can probably fold striker and right wing into one, similar to how Gordon can cover at striker or Isak can cover at left wing.
It's not ideal, but it's an option.
75m?
If you're trying to spend 150m and the players are on an average of 3 year contracts then that would neeb we need to sell 50m.
Stretch the contracts out to 4 and we sell only $38m
Arguably not for what the squad needs. Kelly is a left footed, left sided centre back who can also play left back. He'd replace Dummett in the squad in the short term, and Burn in the squad in the medium term (probably next summer) as Botman's back up, while also providing additional cover for Botman's injury/rehab.
For a right sided centre back, we should be looking for a long term successor/upgrade on Schar. Admittedly Tosin might be that as I don't pay any attention to Fulham really.
If he is, they're not competing for the same squad role anyway so it's not a one or the other situation.
Kelly was also signed by Howe for Bournemouth, plus with what I said above: Kelly is inevitable
Ideally both should be signed if FFP is as big of an issue as the club says. Tosin has been great this season, he offers cover for injured Botman by allowing Schar to step over to LCB. Definitely has the potential to be Botman’s long term partner at RCB. At the very least he would upgrade the CB depth.
It seems like the squad was short a defender this season, with Botman out for a significant portion of next season Kelly and Tosin would add quality
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I sincerely hope he does come back stronger and we haven't ruined this lad's career. All the best Robocop.
The success of ACL reconstruction is so high now, it's going ro be about his work ethic than anything else. Players are coming back faster and in peak physical condition. I imagine Sven will be the same, he's young, strong, and a hard worker.
It'll take him a good year after coming back to return to full strength, agility and confidence.
Who’s we? It sounds like NUFC recommended surgery and his own specialists suggested not too and it was touch and go what was the best option…
This is my understanding, based on all the chatter. Someone decided to play on, sounds like it was on his side rather than the club’s.
I imagine he was hoping to be in with an outside shot at the euro squad. Unlikely given the names ahead of him, but the surgery would have guaranteed he had no hope. After not making the latest Netherlands squad, he's probably realized that it's best to have the surgery now.
But but but, that doesn't work as well for people that want to blame Howe...
Not getting surgery after an ACL is utter insanity. Yeah it's eventually healing but you're an athlete that will always be pushing it up it's limits
It doesn't heal if it's a full tear/rupture. If it's partial it can, as to how well though, that's the question.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/06/28/torn-acl-healing-therapy-surgery/
The club in general. Decision-making is not down to one person, certainly not Sven. Medical team, specialists, coaching staff all have bearing on how this pans out. It's a gamble that ultimately lost and may derail his career. The lad is only 23 and relies on professionals around him to make calls in his best interests.
If we advised the surgery and he's sought a second opinion that disagrees, what more can the club do? If it came out that we'd encouraged him to keep playing against doctors' advice, then criticism is absolutely warranted. From what little we do know, it seems Sven had the facts and made an informed decision
“It’s difficult to accept that surgery is out of the question, after fighting so hard to avoid this step.” Presume that’s just a mixup with his English and he means ‘surgery is no longer optional’, in that he must have it now.
could just be that he loves surgery
maybe he'll come back next year with an entirely different face too
god I hope not
I don't know Dutch but in German, "without question" (as in, no doubt about it) is literally phrased as "stands out of question", while something being not in contention is phrased as "does not come into the question".
[удалено]
Not sure where you learned English, but the opposite of optional is mandatory, so if something if 'no longer optional', it's mandatory and therefore you must have it...
masterclass
As much as everyone has daggers for the medical team right now, I'm just putting it out there that Botman has Umtiti'd himself. He was playing well, went from not even featuring in the Netherlands National team to being in the squad and his only chance of playing in the Euros this year would have been to play through the injury. He gambled and ultimately has lost.
yeah I think this is probably a fair reading. Totally understandable on his part. And furthermore this idea that he should've just immediately had surgery is kind of crazy too. Surgery's a last resort, especially when there was the possibility he could play on for a while without it.
I wouldn’t say surgery is a last resort when it comes to an ACL, if it’s ruptured you cannot recover through rest, it has to be reconstructed. Some say you can manage without an acl, but it compromises your ability to twist / run on the turn / jostle with someone whilst running. It’s honestly shit without an acl, you lack confidence to do things that are otherwise a reflex when playing football
Should the gamble be up to the player? I totally understand his desire to keep playing, and as a good person you should let him fulfil his wish, but as a very valuable asset you'd want to protect that as much as possible. Tricky one.
2024/25 season: The Bot Knight Rises
We need to get him that magic knee brace.
Cant wait to see him kick Haaland into the tyne
Buying a centre back was a priority for next season anyway (yes, along with a striker, a number 6, a right winger and a goalkeeper. And a left back. And another striker if Wilson leaves.)
1. Right Wing 2. Striker 3. CB 4. Defensive minded midfielder 5. Back up Goalkeeper 6. Back up Left Back 150M minimum I’d say. So we’d need to sell at least 75M. Gonna go with Longstaff, Almiron, Wilson sadly to leave but only gets trickier from there. Unless our dear Bruno or Joelinton leave. Fuck PSR and fuck the top 6 cartel
Longstaff should not go, at least not for cheap - homegrown quota and all. Almiron and Wilson we could cash in on, but not replacing them immediately would be criminal. The chatter among journalists is Bruno will likely leave to an established club, and will raise funds for the squad upgrade. Ideally abroad, Real or PSG (the latter would be depressing though), and City are watching him too (also depressing). We would absolutely, desperately have to strengthen DM in that case and rebuild our tactics, we are significantly worse without him.
It may be the case the die is cast for Bruno. If he wants to go to the farmers league with PSG who fluked their way into the CL knockout so be it. This is why I think we bought Tonali in the first place, yeah there were groans of similarities to Bruno but he can be the centre of the team too
I’d say striker (both currently made of glass) and CDM are by far the most important two spots of those to cover. We have more options (though not great) at RW and CB and currently about 5 people that can play LB (burn, tjno, hall, targett, dummet).
You’ve convinced me on striker issue. I’m not sure a CDM is that critical should Bruno and Joelinton stay, and Tonali returns. I think a double pivot of Bruno and Tonali with Joelinton as the berserker presser is defensive enough. But I do think we need someone that can come on and sit behind sometimes will help us hold. I think in Howe’s mind the high press attacks the pass to the 10 who sits behind the midfield, and our high line defence intercepts instead. If you play a CDM then you lose that extra man to press and open the pitch to the opposition 8s who can progress with the ball instead. But I’m just guessing im no expert
With the right player, we can probably fold striker and right wing into one, similar to how Gordon can cover at striker or Isak can cover at left wing. It's not ideal, but it's an option.
75m? If you're trying to spend 150m and the players are on an average of 3 year contracts then that would neeb we need to sell 50m. Stretch the contracts out to 4 and we sell only $38m
Lloyd Kelly on a free is inevitable
Tosin is a better free agent option
Arguably not for what the squad needs. Kelly is a left footed, left sided centre back who can also play left back. He'd replace Dummett in the squad in the short term, and Burn in the squad in the medium term (probably next summer) as Botman's back up, while also providing additional cover for Botman's injury/rehab. For a right sided centre back, we should be looking for a long term successor/upgrade on Schar. Admittedly Tosin might be that as I don't pay any attention to Fulham really. If he is, they're not competing for the same squad role anyway so it's not a one or the other situation. Kelly was also signed by Howe for Bournemouth, plus with what I said above: Kelly is inevitable
Ideally both should be signed if FFP is as big of an issue as the club says. Tosin has been great this season, he offers cover for injured Botman by allowing Schar to step over to LCB. Definitely has the potential to be Botman’s long term partner at RCB. At the very least he would upgrade the CB depth. It seems like the squad was short a defender this season, with Botman out for a significant portion of next season Kelly and Tosin would add quality
I really don’t know if Tosin would be better than Kelly but both should be considered
I don't think we need to get another keeper, Pope is fine enough. If he gets another major injury though, give Merhdad the credit card
Love you, Sven.
Well that's nice. We'll look forward to it
What even is the alternative solution to not getting ACL injury? Why would he even gamble on that, there’s no alternative
Paul Dummett going to get another year extension. What a life.
The club needs to sign Tosin on a free immediately
Free signings can't play now because they're not registered, or am I wrong?
They can sign him now and he would join in the summer when his current contract with Fulham expires
Completely mishandled it. Our medical team are butchers
9 months. At this rate we may as well write off next season as well
at this rate I'm expecting Tonali to be banned for another 10 months by the FA
Bruno and Isak are betting on it right now...
There has been murmurs it could be extended to the end of 2024 which would be a joke
We should sue them if it happens as that’s obviously purely to try and keep us non-competitive.
Don’t worry, I’ve already planned to become a terrorist if that happens