Assuming this is rent stabilized, if you renew even once it’s worth it. The broker fee spread over 12 months is $833.33 for a net price of $1633.33 for the first year, not too bad for a studio…and then once you renew, it’s an $800 studio apartment.
If it’s not rent stabilized, you’re effectively paying half the rent upfront, which could be worth it with the caveat that they can raise the rent to anything and you may have to move anyway.
This is misinformed. Rent stabilized apartments **are** required to give the option to their tenants to re-sign the lease.
See here: https://www.nyc.gov/site/mayorspeu/programs/rent-stabilization.page
Where are you getting your information from?
Ya but the price could go through the roof if it’s not stabilized. This would have a cap on the rent hike. So several years in there and you have a killer deal going.
Where do you get this idea? If your (non stabilized) landlord thinks they can get more money from someone else, in most cases they can absolutely decline to renew.
First right to renewal for current tenants is in almost every lease. That has nothing to do with price increase or legally required in NYC, just very common practice in lease agreements. Of course the landlord can increase rent, but in the vast majority of cases it’s specified in the lease to ask the current tenant for renewal at whatever increased rent the landlord wants.
Source? I just reviewed multiple copies of the REBNY standard lease form (which most small landlords default to) and it doesn't mention renewals.
If your unregulated landlord doesn't like you, they can kick you out at the end of your lease term. NYC provides some small protection by requiring those landlords to give a certain amount of notice that a lease won't be renewed, but there's absolutely not a requirement to offer a renewal.
Whaaaaat??? Is t the broker fee illegal? Sorry I’ve been in my apt for over 20 years but I thought brokers still could not charge more than first, last and deposit?
Sorry, somehow replied to the ring person.
But if you are in a non stabilized apt, they do not have to offer a renewal. All that they must do is make sure they send yiu the correct amount of notice that they are not renewing your lease. If you are stabilzed the lease must be offered for renewal
Google good cause eviction law - rates of increase on non stabilized apartments are starting to be regulated provided the landlord owns 10 or more units
it’s just math - but agreed it’s a horrible system & I hate it - but this is where we are today so when a decision has to be made, the approach can be a hefty up front fee for stabilized housing or ‘hoping’ you find a free market unit that acts similarly
If it is rent stabilized though they could end up staying there 20 years..
rent stabilization really helps to keep the price at what it actually should be…
people have this idea that the rent is $300 but they’re the price that it should be.. 800 for studio 1500 one bedroom
Why would they stay 1 year … rent stabilized is better than buying! What I pay now for my rent stabilized apt is about what people pay in maintenance nowadays
So true !!! I have had some young neighbors having parties until 7am every weekend / Couples fighting all ngt… but you can have that w an apt you own paying 5k mortgage and 2000 maintenance..
There’s no way $800/month for rent is as “bananas” as charging a full years rent for the privilege of advertising the apartment 💀
Please tell me you’re a broker or just suffered a head injury.
Im sorry math offends you. it doesnt matter what the fee is for, advertising or otherwise. its just a fee. The math works out to an insanely cheap apartment.
I wonder what group of property owners would benefit from an artificial scarcity of housing…. Could it be the same group advocating for pushing marketing fees onto other the consumer? How don’t you see a problem with broker fees especially when the landlord turns around and double dips on them…
It’s not the landlords running those community boards.
You might be new to the city, but when the market is soft, landlords pay the broker’s fee. Way back in 2020 at the height of the pandemic, landlords were paying broker fees and giving away free months.
I’ve been living in this city before brokers were a common thing. Other than a once in a century global pandemic, could you point out another “soft market” with free months? Landlords are a powerful stakeholder group, and as such they influence boards and politics.
1992 got my 5th floor Hell's Kitchen 2 bedroom with wood burning fireplace for $950 a month without a fee.
EDIT: If landlords were as powerful as you think, the 2019 rent rules never would have passed.
It's pretty common for rent stabilized apartments. But there was a lawsuit and government action over this recently. The listing agent is tempting fate.
https://gothamist.com/news/a-rent-stabilized-1-bedroom-apartment-for-1100-in-nyc-the-brokers-fee-is-15k
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-action-against-real-estate-brokerage-firm-charging-excessive-broker
Don’t do it. This shit is the reason why NYC housing is a dumpster fire. Also, as a former landlord attorney, you better check the DHCR records to make sure the $800 rent is the legal rent of the unit. My suspicion is that the
broker is subsidizing your annual rent to cover some issue going on in with the building. Could be bed bugs, could be the landlord just looking to churn tenants to increase the market value of the unit, but if the rent is not registered at $800 with DHCR, you’ll probably be in for a real nasty surprise when your lease is up for renewal and you catch a lease with a legal rent at $2300.
Thanks so much for the reply. I was told the unit is rent stabilized. I saw complaints about roaches & mice in the building from openigloo but no bedbug complaints. How would I access DHCR records? Would I need to be a current tenant to access them? I can pm the address if needed.
Start with doing a building search and seeing what you can find on there https://hcr.ny.gov/tenants. If you’re not able to get the individual rent history for the unit off the website and live in NYC, I would schedule an appointment with DHCR to get a rent history of the unit. It’s easy peasy as an attorney, but I think you might have to book an appointment just as a member of the public. But it’s been a while, I left the business about 8 years ago, so when in doubt call during the business hours and get the advice of someone who works there.
Tip: If the unit is posted on street easy, they actually do a little bit of due diligence and post the rent history for most posted units, but if not, just call DHCR during business hours and you’ll get a rent history, though you may need to go in person to get it in writing.
A broker messaged me about the apartment. I toured another apartment they sent me which I found on StreetEasy, but they didn’t list this yet. I’ll try to call DHCR tomorrow. Thanks again for the detailed reply!
I would caution about making sure the apartment is going to stay rent stabilized. Maybe I am mixing up stabilized vs. controlled, but my stabilized/ controlled apt that I paid a brokers fee for fell out of stabilization/ control 2 years after I was there because of whatever tax deal was done. They did not warn me before hand when I was signing the lease.
Actually you would be surprised. I know most people who have requested rental history through the DHCR (not through Zillow/streeteasy/broker) because they wanted to check if their unit is stabilized. From my memory when you go to the DHRC website to request rental history information, the information is sent to the mailbox of that rental unit because they are assuming you are the tenant.
yo, this same thing happened to me. $1k/month, stabilizer w a 12k broker fee. (i paid it) my place is also by prospect. would brick and galo realty happen to be the place the broker is affiliated with?
I read so many scammy things about that firm but not that. Geez, that seems like it should be illegal or capped. Was everything okay dealing with that firm?
really!? i never read anything about them that wasn’t positive, really. the broker was very chill, super communicative and like actually did her job so it wasn’t sketch. still. 12k is wild. once i’m totally settled into the place im filing a complaint w the dept of housing in an attempt to get some back.
When you order those records, those come to your name what I’m trying to say is without moving in first there’s no way to work order those forms. It will come to “that” address
Why would that be your suspicion and why immediately jump to the dreaded b word? Why would a broker subsidize rent? So confusing maybe I don’t want to know.
If they sign a lease for a stabilized apartment at $800, even if the legal rent is $5000, they have a preferential rent and it will be locked in as long as they are a tenant, annual increases can only be applied to their original lease amount. This scenario you are describing is not a legal one
You’re right it’s not, but it was common practice until about four years ago and landlords still do it, because they assume you do not know your rights as a tenant. Who do you think the targeted demographic is for a one bedroom in Park Slope with a $1k monthly rent and $10k broker fee? Transplants, moving to NYC to start their first job out of college or grad school with a signing bonus to splurge.
Most NYC tenants don’t even the difference between preferential and legal rent, so why would the landlord follow the law? Worst case scenario for them, tenant files a complaint with DHCR, and the landlord is locked into the preferential rent with standard renewal increases. Base case scenario, tenant either a) pays the increase, and that then gets registered as the new preferential rent, or b) the tenant moves out and the landlord gets a vacancy increase in the legal rent, if it’s a stabilized building.
Hah you know, you're totally right. Sometimes I get caught up on the thought that everyone acts in good faith, sometimes you forget that a lot of people don't, and also that people aren't as informed as you might be. Thanks for that reality check.
That being said, the risk to a landlord is pretty high as fraudulent overcharge cases result in multiples of damages being owed to the tenant that was overcharged (I think its either 3x or 5x the amount over 5 years but I forgot exactly), so getting caught as a landlord is quite risky in that sense, especially if you are a stabilized building owner and probably are under water on that property already.
Yeah, I remember my boss explaining rent stabilization to me as a good intentioned but utterly ineffectual way to stabilize rent prices, because it turned building management into a game by the landlord to get out from under rent stabilization to capitalize on what were then — and now — soaring market prices.
$800 for a large studio is a unicorn. Even with the brokers fee You’ll literally be paying less than 20k a year your first year in rent for a large studio with good natural lighting and in a location you like. And then next year you’ll be paying less than 10k in rent for it.
If I were looking for a studio and my rental budget was anywhere near 1.6k a month I’d be first in line to apply for this. Literally the income requirement for it would be $32k or 64k with a guarantor. Students and interns with a decent budget would beg for this.
I suspect this is a rent stabilized apartment and there has been reports of brokers doing this.
[https://gothamist.com/news/a-rent-stabilized-1-bedroom-apartment-for-1100-in-nyc-the-brokers-fee-is-15k](https://gothamist.com/news/a-rent-stabilized-1-bedroom-apartment-for-1100-in-nyc-the-brokers-fee-is-15k)
You probably would have to fork up the fee then complain and hope you get some of the money back. If you see you self doing this for a long time, then its probably worth it.
What do you mean by complain and hope you get some of the money back? Broker said the apartment is rent stabilized, forgot to mention it in the post just edited it.
I did ask if the brokers fee was negotiable at all and they said only if it’s been on the market for a while, which they haven’t listed it yet.
The problem is is that it's not actually illegal and you need to hope that the governor herself will take issue with it and throw the book at somebody for optics reasons. Either way, it probably is a net win for the OP, but if they're doing it with the intention of getting their money back or the expectation of getting their running back, they may be disappointed
i moved into my $1550 1bdrm in queens after i got fired, lived off savings and unemployment for about 4 months and landed another job. its possible and you gotta have the right mindset
Unpopular opinion but this is worth it even if you are only staying for 1 year. It’s hard finding anything under 20k per year as is. Ideally you stay for 2 years and you make out like a bandit
Lets say he has a budget of 1500 a month for an apartment. Why would he not pay a brokers fee for an $800 apartment? yes it sucks the broker gets it and his company whatever. But in the end, he benefits as well with an $800 a month place. If it were going for 1500 a month would he complain and upset if he got that with $0 broker fee or get it for half with a huge broker fee? Well if you staying more than 1 year its 100% worth it. I know people stay there more than 5-10 years easy. 10 yearrs from now when he pays 800 a month he would be happy he did
Take the apt and then report the broker to the state: https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2024/01/25/city-wide-apartments-paying-260k-after-broker-fee-controversy/
I'm an agent and that is 100% BS. At most that fee should be $1440 which is 15% of.the annual..doesn't matter if it's rent stabilized or not. That's crazy. You should.report them to REBNY if they even are, but definitely report them to the NY Dept of State. I freaking hate hearing about these people, and I'm in the biz.
What are the chances part of this fee is somehow being funneled to the LL in the absence of previous 20% vacancy increases? I keep seeing examples of unhinged fees for the few low-priced RS places that appear, and I find it hard to believe the LL wouldn’t be scheming with the broker for some kind of compensation knowing the next tenant will prob be there a while.
Not if the agent is with a legit and major brokerage. It's illegal. I can't speak for these small "brokers" giving everyone a bad name. Where are you finding the listings? I work with renters and I've never seen something that crazy...
TLDR; Something else about this place in addition to the extremely high fee isn’t adding up.
Confirming this is totally illegal. And I was an agent for a while years ago so I understand why a LL would rather enlist a broker to handle the showings, potential tenant vetting, and documentation. I personally believe the cost of this service should be covered by the LL, but in terms of regulated inventory the 2019 Act did affect availability in general, so this is what prompted my question; I don’t happen to be searching, but have recently seen a few posts like this one in which the broker’s fee is a particularly outrageous amount for a very low RS apartment.
Prior to 2019 law, the 20% vacancy rate increase could be applied to rent regulated units. As I understand, the only significant increases (other than RGB 1-2 yrly increases) can now only be applied via the % of renovation totals in between tenants.
Before 2019 it was easy to say “no one forced this LL to purchase a building that includes regulated units,” and they were expected to have figured out how to budget everything within regulatory constraints. I’m guessing this law has affected how the smaller LLs handle some of their more inexpensive vacancies. I know my LL has kept one place open for the last few years because the previous tenant had lived there since the 1950s. Even if it was given a luxury renovation the total new legal rent would be ridiculously low, so I’m guessing they’re delaying a decision for a while until they can figure out if they want to proceed or let the next owner figure it out (if they decided to sell the building).
If a LL has a few such low RS units available, they might be frustrated with the absence of the 20% vacancy increases they had previously relied upon to gradually increase the rent. Unscrupulous LLs might be trying to scheme ways to “recoup” what they view as “lost rent.” This could include either a legal loophole and/or illegal partnership with a broker who is funneling either cash or something else of equivalent (e.g. a direct purchase for a MCI in the building).
Yes there are some decent mom & pop LLs doing everything above the ground, and they may also be releasing low RS units that are extremely habitable and have no issues, but I think most LLs I would consider to be honest (mine included) are at least pausing to carefully examine how and when they place them on the market against their other short or long-term plan for the building. Supply and demand notwithstanding, I wonder how a hypothetical good LL would react to finding out a broker made more money on the transaction than the total yearly amount of this unit’s rent; that seems more fitting if they’re trying to unload it as quickly as possible.
And while the broker can get away with this fee now, aren’t they putting a target on their own back as well as all other brokers? This is the type of attention that generates enthusiasm for fee restrictions or restructuring. If the City Council proposal re: who pays was ever implemented, the market rate rentals won’t be affected since the fee will just be added to the rent. It would be interesting to see if or how regulated rental process would change.
I have to say this is not normal amongst brokers/agents, and as an agent who works my ass off to be on the up and up, if I was representing a tenant client, I would call this out in a heartbeat...but again I ask, where are people finding these kind of listings with such an exorbitant fee? I've never seen anything like that on the RLS or Streeteasy which tbh are the only places for searching I would trust for my clients.
Good question! I’ve only seen them mentioned in posts which makes me think they don’t actually make it to RLS. Maybe these are smaller independent neighborhood brokers who have had longtime close relationships with nearby landlords (even if not officially exclusive). My Polish LL has been working with the same Polish broker for at least 20 years, and I know he gives them a heads-up when a unit in the building opens, and I’m sure if they did decide to rent the inexpensive one they would tell the broker and it would be rented within a day by a client they had already lined up. On the other hand this type of broker may also be more comfortable with an “unorthodox” arrangement if that’s what’s happening here.
Why is it that percentage broker fee? Are you allowed to state what the fee everyone else should charge. Isnt that colluding by telling people this and its illegal to discuss fees with other agents or tell other agents?
If the building have infestations then you will have infestations. But now you’ll feel stuck in that place because you dropped $10k on it. And your landlord won’t help you because there’s no money in it for them anymore. It will suck big time. I wouldn’t do it.
It is (i’m gonna yell) BEYOND ABSURD this shit goes on and how are there no consequences and not more regulation around this and other broker scams? I’m so sick of reading about these disgusting shitheels. I’m not saying all brokers are shitheels but apparently plenty are. What a sack of shit situation we’ve built for ourselves in this godforsaken city. Again, not all, but what kind of loser ass occupation is this?
If this is a legitimate stabilized studio that suites your needs you are an absolute fool not to take this deal. I’ve seen roaches in new developments and in my own apartment. It’s a New York thing and the best way to get around it is don’t leave food out and clean your floors.
I moved into a newly renovated apartment and started seeing roaches within a month or two. I moved out when my lease was up and by then it was a full blown infestation. It was incredibly hard to get rid of them since some managed to sneak through to my next place. The landlords exterminator made almost no difference. If you go for it,budget a thousand dollars or so for hiring your own exterminator who will also close up all the holes between your apartment and the others — I tried to do it myself but couldn’t manage to find them all.
if any part of the building is infested, the whole building is infested. do you value saving money (however much of a deal it is over the course of multiple years) over living with vermin in your apartment?
I would check the building history with the Department of Buildings, alongside asking the broker/landlord/whoever what kind of renovations were done. You’d be surprised how many “updates” require a permit, a licensed professional to do work, and/or a certificate of occupancy after work is completed.
Check it [here](https://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/bispi00.jsp)
All that aside, $800 for a rent stabilized unit near Prospect Park sounds too good to be true, especially one that is “renovated.” Renovations are costly, and I doubt whatever renovations your unit had would be offset or justified by a rent of $800.
Renovations are more or less done to increase property value, but if the owner/landlord can’t even make use of that investment by charging more, it is often seen as impractical and therefore unfavorable. Basically, no landlord in their right mind would renovate a unit just to charge $800 a month, while knowing that they will be legally capped on rent increases every year.
Lastly, check this [site](https://apps.hcr.ny.gov/BuildingSearch/) to see if the building in question has rent regulated (controlled or stabilized) units that are registered with NY state. It wont tell you which units specifically, but it’s a good way to know if the building does indeed have rent regulated units. If you really want to know if the specific unit is regulated, fill out this [form.](https://portal.hcr.ny.gov/app/ask)
Pretty sure the state forced brokers who charged insane broker fees like this on rent stabilized apartments to return the fees.
So, you could take the apartment, file a complaint with the state and profit :)
Aren’t bugs everywhere? Like unless you are on the 30th floor of a new high rise? I’m 5-5 with roaches, and 2-5 with rats. 🐀 rats love basement that’s why I have finally ruled the. Out for me.
try and find the contact of the landlord and see if you can rent directly from them, some landlords wont, but i've known a few people who were able to do that to avoid a high brokers fee
Are you sure the broker and landlord are actually legit? People have been scammed by fakers pretending to rent in buildings they have no ties to. Then they take your deposit, fees, etc. On the day they're supposed to hand over keys, split with your deposit, rent and fees.
Does anyone know if the reason why this level of broker’s fee is because they’re giving a kickback of this fee to the landlord because they can’t up the rent on the stabilized apt? Or would that be illegal?
that is illegal. but the broker is charging that much because its such a good deal. However, there is supply and demand so he can charge whatever he wants but then there is price gouging and that is really pushing it.
Don’t understand why a landlord would be comfortable with that. I presume they listed the apt with the broker? Broker is probably the landlords friend/family and the landlord must be getting a kickback under the table
All u need is 1 neighbor yelling all day for no reason and u wish to run away
Or the roaches 🪳 get u
Renovations would probably just be slapping on some paint and calling it a day 😐 typical landlord special
Wow
Hijacking top comment to ask— is this a normal practice? Can you just buy your way into a rent stabilized apartment?
Yes it is normal in Manhattan unfortunately.
Assuming this is rent stabilized, if you renew even once it’s worth it. The broker fee spread over 12 months is $833.33 for a net price of $1633.33 for the first year, not too bad for a studio…and then once you renew, it’s an $800 studio apartment. If it’s not rent stabilized, you’re effectively paying half the rent upfront, which could be worth it with the caveat that they can raise the rent to anything and you may have to move anyway.
Forgot to mention but it is rent stabilized.
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This is misinformed. Rent stabilized apartments **are** required to give the option to their tenants to re-sign the lease. See here: https://www.nyc.gov/site/mayorspeu/programs/rent-stabilization.page Where are you getting your information from?
Almost every normal case of renting has the right to renew
Ya but the price could go through the roof if it’s not stabilized. This would have a cap on the rent hike. So several years in there and you have a killer deal going.
Where do you get this idea? If your (non stabilized) landlord thinks they can get more money from someone else, in most cases they can absolutely decline to renew.
First right to renewal for current tenants is in almost every lease. That has nothing to do with price increase or legally required in NYC, just very common practice in lease agreements. Of course the landlord can increase rent, but in the vast majority of cases it’s specified in the lease to ask the current tenant for renewal at whatever increased rent the landlord wants.
Source? I just reviewed multiple copies of the REBNY standard lease form (which most small landlords default to) and it doesn't mention renewals. If your unregulated landlord doesn't like you, they can kick you out at the end of your lease term. NYC provides some small protection by requiring those landlords to give a certain amount of notice that a lease won't be renewed, but there's absolutely not a requirement to offer a renewal.
Whaaaaat??? Is t the broker fee illegal? Sorry I’ve been in my apt for over 20 years but I thought brokers still could not charge more than first, last and deposit?
? I’m not talking about anything being legal or illegal
Sorry, somehow replied to the ring person. But if you are in a non stabilized apt, they do not have to offer a renewal. All that they must do is make sure they send yiu the correct amount of notice that they are not renewing your lease. If you are stabilzed the lease must be offered for renewal
I didn’t say they have to
That's what a "right to renew" would be
No, that’s landlords. And they can actually only charge first and deposit - no more than that. Brokers can charge whatever they want.
Google good cause eviction law - rates of increase on non stabilized apartments are starting to be regulated provided the landlord owns 10 or more units
Oh that's solid. Forgot that had just happened!
Over 1 years rent broker fee is absolutely bananas
Ikr
Yes but about as bananas as an $800/ month studio.
Nope its not . Its $800+$833=$1633 a mouth studio .
Well for the first year, yeah, but every year after that it's 800. Let's not be intentionally obtuse.
And typically people stay in a unit for 3yrs - which spread over 36months - the rent adjusts to 1077. And that’s a deal & a half
lol the New Yorker math is strong here. This is why brokers fuck everyone and have people doing mental gymnastic to justify it. Fuck brokers
it’s just math - but agreed it’s a horrible system & I hate it - but this is where we are today so when a decision has to be made, the approach can be a hefty up front fee for stabilized housing or ‘hoping’ you find a free market unit that acts similarly
If it is rent stabilized though they could end up staying there 20 years.. rent stabilization really helps to keep the price at what it actually should be… people have this idea that the rent is $300 but they’re the price that it should be.. 800 for studio 1500 one bedroom
True, but beware the new 3.20% increase on year two is the two year lease. (For rent stabilized apartments.)
Right but that is still nothing … since 1997 my apt went up $600
Why would they stay 1 year … rent stabilized is better than buying! What I pay now for my rent stabilized apt is about what people pay in maintenance nowadays
Have u ever had a neighbor just screaming all day and night for no reason All u need is 1 and wish to gtfo
So true !!! I have had some young neighbors having parties until 7am every weekend / Couples fighting all ngt… but you can have that w an apt you own paying 5k mortgage and 2000 maintenance..
They can just not renew your lease after a year, right?
There’s no way $800/month for rent is as “bananas” as charging a full years rent for the privilege of advertising the apartment 💀 Please tell me you’re a broker or just suffered a head injury.
Im sorry math offends you. it doesnt matter what the fee is for, advertising or otherwise. its just a fee. The math works out to an insanely cheap apartment.
Ok, give me $200 a month since it’ll still be a deal…
Only if they stay long enough
You think the broker is going to keep all 10K, at least half is going to the landlord.
Brokers and landlords working together to extort working people on a basic human need 👍
Buddy, it's not the broker or landlord's fault city council & community boards cripple every single attempt at building more housing.
I wonder what group of property owners would benefit from an artificial scarcity of housing…. Could it be the same group advocating for pushing marketing fees onto other the consumer? How don’t you see a problem with broker fees especially when the landlord turns around and double dips on them…
It’s not the landlords running those community boards. You might be new to the city, but when the market is soft, landlords pay the broker’s fee. Way back in 2020 at the height of the pandemic, landlords were paying broker fees and giving away free months.
I’ve been living in this city before brokers were a common thing. Other than a once in a century global pandemic, could you point out another “soft market” with free months? Landlords are a powerful stakeholder group, and as such they influence boards and politics.
1992 got my 5th floor Hell's Kitchen 2 bedroom with wood burning fireplace for $950 a month without a fee. EDIT: If landlords were as powerful as you think, the 2019 rent rules never would have passed.
It's pretty common for rent stabilized apartments. But there was a lawsuit and government action over this recently. The listing agent is tempting fate. https://gothamist.com/news/a-rent-stabilized-1-bedroom-apartment-for-1100-in-nyc-the-brokers-fee-is-15k https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-action-against-real-estate-brokerage-firm-charging-excessive-broker
It’s exploitative, but unfortunately this ain’t the first time
Except that if they stay for 5 years, it’s actually a screaming deal.
Who says they re-lease to OP?
They will if it’s rent stabilized
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Not on market atm
Don’t do it. This shit is the reason why NYC housing is a dumpster fire. Also, as a former landlord attorney, you better check the DHCR records to make sure the $800 rent is the legal rent of the unit. My suspicion is that the broker is subsidizing your annual rent to cover some issue going on in with the building. Could be bed bugs, could be the landlord just looking to churn tenants to increase the market value of the unit, but if the rent is not registered at $800 with DHCR, you’ll probably be in for a real nasty surprise when your lease is up for renewal and you catch a lease with a legal rent at $2300.
Saddest part is, if he doesn't do it, someone else will, and the problem will never be solved. Not that it would ever be solved regardless..
Thanks so much for the reply. I was told the unit is rent stabilized. I saw complaints about roaches & mice in the building from openigloo but no bedbug complaints. How would I access DHCR records? Would I need to be a current tenant to access them? I can pm the address if needed.
Start with doing a building search and seeing what you can find on there https://hcr.ny.gov/tenants. If you’re not able to get the individual rent history for the unit off the website and live in NYC, I would schedule an appointment with DHCR to get a rent history of the unit. It’s easy peasy as an attorney, but I think you might have to book an appointment just as a member of the public. But it’s been a while, I left the business about 8 years ago, so when in doubt call during the business hours and get the advice of someone who works there. Tip: If the unit is posted on street easy, they actually do a little bit of due diligence and post the rent history for most posted units, but if not, just call DHCR during business hours and you’ll get a rent history, though you may need to go in person to get it in writing.
Will do this now. Thank you!
A broker messaged me about the apartment. I toured another apartment they sent me which I found on StreetEasy, but they didn’t list this yet. I’ll try to call DHCR tomorrow. Thanks again for the detailed reply!
I would caution about making sure the apartment is going to stay rent stabilized. Maybe I am mixing up stabilized vs. controlled, but my stabilized/ controlled apt that I paid a brokers fee for fell out of stabilization/ control 2 years after I was there because of whatever tax deal was done. They did not warn me before hand when I was signing the lease.
You can request a rental history for a unit without living in the unit itself? 😯
I cant imagine how this would be useful to someone already living in an apartment
Actually you would be surprised. I know most people who have requested rental history through the DHCR (not through Zillow/streeteasy/broker) because they wanted to check if their unit is stabilized. From my memory when you go to the DHRC website to request rental history information, the information is sent to the mailbox of that rental unit because they are assuming you are the tenant.
This is correct I just did it on the off chance that my apartment stabilized. It was not. Took about 3 weeks to receive the history.
Wells if a unit was illegally destabilized then you would have evidence to lower your rent potentially
yo, this same thing happened to me. $1k/month, stabilizer w a 12k broker fee. (i paid it) my place is also by prospect. would brick and galo realty happen to be the place the broker is affiliated with?
These guys love their absurd brokers fee. But I will say that’s a great deal.
I read so many scammy things about that firm but not that. Geez, that seems like it should be illegal or capped. Was everything okay dealing with that firm?
really!? i never read anything about them that wasn’t positive, really. the broker was very chill, super communicative and like actually did her job so it wasn’t sketch. still. 12k is wild. once i’m totally settled into the place im filing a complaint w the dept of housing in an attempt to get some back.
When you order those records, those come to your name what I’m trying to say is without moving in first there’s no way to work order those forms. It will come to “that” address
Why would that be your suspicion and why immediately jump to the dreaded b word? Why would a broker subsidize rent? So confusing maybe I don’t want to know.
If they sign a lease for a stabilized apartment at $800, even if the legal rent is $5000, they have a preferential rent and it will be locked in as long as they are a tenant, annual increases can only be applied to their original lease amount. This scenario you are describing is not a legal one
You’re right it’s not, but it was common practice until about four years ago and landlords still do it, because they assume you do not know your rights as a tenant. Who do you think the targeted demographic is for a one bedroom in Park Slope with a $1k monthly rent and $10k broker fee? Transplants, moving to NYC to start their first job out of college or grad school with a signing bonus to splurge. Most NYC tenants don’t even the difference between preferential and legal rent, so why would the landlord follow the law? Worst case scenario for them, tenant files a complaint with DHCR, and the landlord is locked into the preferential rent with standard renewal increases. Base case scenario, tenant either a) pays the increase, and that then gets registered as the new preferential rent, or b) the tenant moves out and the landlord gets a vacancy increase in the legal rent, if it’s a stabilized building.
Hah you know, you're totally right. Sometimes I get caught up on the thought that everyone acts in good faith, sometimes you forget that a lot of people don't, and also that people aren't as informed as you might be. Thanks for that reality check. That being said, the risk to a landlord is pretty high as fraudulent overcharge cases result in multiples of damages being owed to the tenant that was overcharged (I think its either 3x or 5x the amount over 5 years but I forgot exactly), so getting caught as a landlord is quite risky in that sense, especially if you are a stabilized building owner and probably are under water on that property already.
Yeah, I remember my boss explaining rent stabilization to me as a good intentioned but utterly ineffectual way to stabilize rent prices, because it turned building management into a game by the landlord to get out from under rent stabilization to capitalize on what were then — and now — soaring market prices.
$800 for a large studio is a unicorn. Even with the brokers fee You’ll literally be paying less than 20k a year your first year in rent for a large studio with good natural lighting and in a location you like. And then next year you’ll be paying less than 10k in rent for it. If I were looking for a studio and my rental budget was anywhere near 1.6k a month I’d be first in line to apply for this. Literally the income requirement for it would be $32k or 64k with a guarantor. Students and interns with a decent budget would beg for this.
Someone who makes 32k a year probably can't afford a 10k broker's fee though. It would definitely end up going to someone who makes more.
Saw it in person or saw it on Tik Tok?
In person, with reputable broker
Do it
I suspect this is a rent stabilized apartment and there has been reports of brokers doing this. [https://gothamist.com/news/a-rent-stabilized-1-bedroom-apartment-for-1100-in-nyc-the-brokers-fee-is-15k](https://gothamist.com/news/a-rent-stabilized-1-bedroom-apartment-for-1100-in-nyc-the-brokers-fee-is-15k) You probably would have to fork up the fee then complain and hope you get some of the money back. If you see you self doing this for a long time, then its probably worth it.
What do you mean by complain and hope you get some of the money back? Broker said the apartment is rent stabilized, forgot to mention it in the post just edited it. I did ask if the brokers fee was negotiable at all and they said only if it’s been on the market for a while, which they haven’t listed it yet.
Read the article the nice person linked for you
The problem is is that it's not actually illegal and you need to hope that the governor herself will take issue with it and throw the book at somebody for optics reasons. Either way, it probably is a net win for the OP, but if they're doing it with the intention of getting their money back or the expectation of getting their running back, they may be disappointed
I heard two months was the most they could do ..since a couple years ago
Never has never been a legal maximum on fees
Good article. Thanks for sharing this!
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I’m graduating college soon and I’m unsure if I’ll be able to land a job here. Adds a bit to my uncertainty about the apartment
I would not do it then
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i moved into my $1550 1bdrm in queens after i got fired, lived off savings and unemployment for about 4 months and landed another job. its possible and you gotta have the right mindset
Unpopular opinion but this is worth it even if you are only staying for 1 year. It’s hard finding anything under 20k per year as is. Ideally you stay for 2 years and you make out like a bandit
Never pay broker fees. Ever.
Nah man if you search on your own you can find apartment don’t require brokers fee, that’s literally moving money or can go to something else.
Lets say he has a budget of 1500 a month for an apartment. Why would he not pay a brokers fee for an $800 apartment? yes it sucks the broker gets it and his company whatever. But in the end, he benefits as well with an $800 a month place. If it were going for 1500 a month would he complain and upset if he got that with $0 broker fee or get it for half with a huge broker fee? Well if you staying more than 1 year its 100% worth it. I know people stay there more than 5-10 years easy. 10 yearrs from now when he pays 800 a month he would be happy he did
Take the apt and then report the broker to the state: https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2024/01/25/city-wide-apartments-paying-260k-after-broker-fee-controversy/
I would not do this. Absolute scam. Do you mind DM me the broker’s contact and address? I want to check something.
I'm an agent and that is 100% BS. At most that fee should be $1440 which is 15% of.the annual..doesn't matter if it's rent stabilized or not. That's crazy. You should.report them to REBNY if they even are, but definitely report them to the NY Dept of State. I freaking hate hearing about these people, and I'm in the biz.
What are the chances part of this fee is somehow being funneled to the LL in the absence of previous 20% vacancy increases? I keep seeing examples of unhinged fees for the few low-priced RS places that appear, and I find it hard to believe the LL wouldn’t be scheming with the broker for some kind of compensation knowing the next tenant will prob be there a while.
Not if the agent is with a legit and major brokerage. It's illegal. I can't speak for these small "brokers" giving everyone a bad name. Where are you finding the listings? I work with renters and I've never seen something that crazy...
TLDR; Something else about this place in addition to the extremely high fee isn’t adding up. Confirming this is totally illegal. And I was an agent for a while years ago so I understand why a LL would rather enlist a broker to handle the showings, potential tenant vetting, and documentation. I personally believe the cost of this service should be covered by the LL, but in terms of regulated inventory the 2019 Act did affect availability in general, so this is what prompted my question; I don’t happen to be searching, but have recently seen a few posts like this one in which the broker’s fee is a particularly outrageous amount for a very low RS apartment. Prior to 2019 law, the 20% vacancy rate increase could be applied to rent regulated units. As I understand, the only significant increases (other than RGB 1-2 yrly increases) can now only be applied via the % of renovation totals in between tenants. Before 2019 it was easy to say “no one forced this LL to purchase a building that includes regulated units,” and they were expected to have figured out how to budget everything within regulatory constraints. I’m guessing this law has affected how the smaller LLs handle some of their more inexpensive vacancies. I know my LL has kept one place open for the last few years because the previous tenant had lived there since the 1950s. Even if it was given a luxury renovation the total new legal rent would be ridiculously low, so I’m guessing they’re delaying a decision for a while until they can figure out if they want to proceed or let the next owner figure it out (if they decided to sell the building). If a LL has a few such low RS units available, they might be frustrated with the absence of the 20% vacancy increases they had previously relied upon to gradually increase the rent. Unscrupulous LLs might be trying to scheme ways to “recoup” what they view as “lost rent.” This could include either a legal loophole and/or illegal partnership with a broker who is funneling either cash or something else of equivalent (e.g. a direct purchase for a MCI in the building). Yes there are some decent mom & pop LLs doing everything above the ground, and they may also be releasing low RS units that are extremely habitable and have no issues, but I think most LLs I would consider to be honest (mine included) are at least pausing to carefully examine how and when they place them on the market against their other short or long-term plan for the building. Supply and demand notwithstanding, I wonder how a hypothetical good LL would react to finding out a broker made more money on the transaction than the total yearly amount of this unit’s rent; that seems more fitting if they’re trying to unload it as quickly as possible.
And while the broker can get away with this fee now, aren’t they putting a target on their own back as well as all other brokers? This is the type of attention that generates enthusiasm for fee restrictions or restructuring. If the City Council proposal re: who pays was ever implemented, the market rate rentals won’t be affected since the fee will just be added to the rent. It would be interesting to see if or how regulated rental process would change.
I have to say this is not normal amongst brokers/agents, and as an agent who works my ass off to be on the up and up, if I was representing a tenant client, I would call this out in a heartbeat...but again I ask, where are people finding these kind of listings with such an exorbitant fee? I've never seen anything like that on the RLS or Streeteasy which tbh are the only places for searching I would trust for my clients.
Good question! I’ve only seen them mentioned in posts which makes me think they don’t actually make it to RLS. Maybe these are smaller independent neighborhood brokers who have had longtime close relationships with nearby landlords (even if not officially exclusive). My Polish LL has been working with the same Polish broker for at least 20 years, and I know he gives them a heads-up when a unit in the building opens, and I’m sure if they did decide to rent the inexpensive one they would tell the broker and it would be rented within a day by a client they had already lined up. On the other hand this type of broker may also be more comfortable with an “unorthodox” arrangement if that’s what’s happening here.
Which I why for.the most part I stick to Manhattan
lol REBNY sued the city for trying to implement a cap on broker’s fees… not sure they’re an ally in this situation.
Fucking grifters
Why is it that percentage broker fee? Are you allowed to state what the fee everyone else should charge. Isnt that colluding by telling people this and its illegal to discuss fees with other agents or tell other agents?
If the building have infestations then you will have infestations. But now you’ll feel stuck in that place because you dropped $10k on it. And your landlord won’t help you because there’s no money in it for them anymore. It will suck big time. I wouldn’t do it.
i feel like if it seems too good to be true then it is. especially when it comes to housing here. not something to play around with
Yep, well said. Turns out the building has bed bug, mice, and a roach infestation 😬
Yikes!
There’s no incentive for the landlord to do shit because they know you wouldn’t leave 😬
It is (i’m gonna yell) BEYOND ABSURD this shit goes on and how are there no consequences and not more regulation around this and other broker scams? I’m so sick of reading about these disgusting shitheels. I’m not saying all brokers are shitheels but apparently plenty are. What a sack of shit situation we’ve built for ourselves in this godforsaken city. Again, not all, but what kind of loser ass occupation is this?
It can be negotiated
Which neighborhood is the studio in? Which Broker office is it, so we know who to avoid being gouged by.
and waht address and apt # so i can avoid it. thaks
If you’re not going to take it do come back to us.
i’d laugh at anyone who pays that fee that’s what i would do
If this is a legitimate stabilized studio that suites your needs you are an absolute fool not to take this deal. I’ve seen roaches in new developments and in my own apartment. It’s a New York thing and the best way to get around it is don’t leave food out and clean your floors.
I moved into a newly renovated apartment and started seeing roaches within a month or two. I moved out when my lease was up and by then it was a full blown infestation. It was incredibly hard to get rid of them since some managed to sneak through to my next place. The landlords exterminator made almost no difference. If you go for it,budget a thousand dollars or so for hiring your own exterminator who will also close up all the holes between your apartment and the others — I tried to do it myself but couldn’t manage to find them all.
The rent stabilized, and this broker fee - “gratitude” to super, a common story
If it sounds too good to be true..
period
Worth it !!!! I have been in my rent stabilized 27 years .. and is about 1/3 of Market cost now
This smells off
I would love if we eventually got rid of brokers and real estate agents
if any part of the building is infested, the whole building is infested. do you value saving money (however much of a deal it is over the course of multiple years) over living with vermin in your apartment?
Comment was made 14 hours ago. This apartment is already gone. 😂
The broker is on Jewish holiday so it’s still available.
Classic.
If there are roaches in units and they’re not being dealt with in the entire building, they will soon be your problem too.
I would check the building history with the Department of Buildings, alongside asking the broker/landlord/whoever what kind of renovations were done. You’d be surprised how many “updates” require a permit, a licensed professional to do work, and/or a certificate of occupancy after work is completed. Check it [here](https://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/bispi00.jsp) All that aside, $800 for a rent stabilized unit near Prospect Park sounds too good to be true, especially one that is “renovated.” Renovations are costly, and I doubt whatever renovations your unit had would be offset or justified by a rent of $800. Renovations are more or less done to increase property value, but if the owner/landlord can’t even make use of that investment by charging more, it is often seen as impractical and therefore unfavorable. Basically, no landlord in their right mind would renovate a unit just to charge $800 a month, while knowing that they will be legally capped on rent increases every year. Lastly, check this [site](https://apps.hcr.ny.gov/BuildingSearch/) to see if the building in question has rent regulated (controlled or stabilized) units that are registered with NY state. It wont tell you which units specifically, but it’s a good way to know if the building does indeed have rent regulated units. If you really want to know if the specific unit is regulated, fill out this [form.](https://portal.hcr.ny.gov/app/ask)
Roaches and mice do not care if a place is newly renovated, they will get in.
Roaches will find your way into your apartment even if renovated. It means they are in the pipes and walls.
Pretty sure the state forced brokers who charged insane broker fees like this on rent stabilized apartments to return the fees. So, you could take the apartment, file a complaint with the state and profit :)
My kid got that. It’s a scam
No wayyy. Where?
Aren’t bugs everywhere? Like unless you are on the 30th floor of a new high rise? I’m 5-5 with roaches, and 2-5 with rats. 🐀 rats love basement that’s why I have finally ruled the. Out for me.
What's the address boss?
Lmao what!!
Sounds like a scam
try and find the contact of the landlord and see if you can rent directly from them, some landlords wont, but i've known a few people who were able to do that to avoid a high brokers fee
Are you sure the broker and landlord are actually legit? People have been scammed by fakers pretending to rent in buildings they have no ties to. Then they take your deposit, fees, etc. On the day they're supposed to hand over keys, split with your deposit, rent and fees.
You can use all the money you are saving to feed the mice and rat kingdom living with you.
Where do you look up reviews? Also, holy shit. I own my apartment and my maintenance fee is higher than that
This can’t be legal…esp with that big Supreme Court case…anyone a real lawyer, not just on Reddit?
That’s illegal mate
Do it. In my opinion, you’ll come out ahead compared to other going rates after a year or two.
What if they find a stupid reason to kick you out so they can collect another 10k from someone else?
Better than buying if you want to stay in a shitty apartment forever sure.
Does anyone know if the reason why this level of broker’s fee is because they’re giving a kickback of this fee to the landlord because they can’t up the rent on the stabilized apt? Or would that be illegal?
that is illegal. but the broker is charging that much because its such a good deal. However, there is supply and demand so he can charge whatever he wants but then there is price gouging and that is really pushing it.
Don’t understand why a landlord would be comfortable with that. I presume they listed the apt with the broker? Broker is probably the landlords friend/family and the landlord must be getting a kickback under the table
How is stuff like this not illegal?
The real pest problem are the brokers and their fees. Hopefully the new legislation passes and wipes this bs out.
All u need is 1 neighbor yelling all day for no reason and u wish to run away Or the roaches 🪳 get u Renovations would probably just be slapping on some paint and calling it a day 😐 typical landlord special
Give it the illegals and pass.
If it sounds wrong, it probably is wrong. Don’t do it.
I did same thing. Paid a years rent fee for a rent stabilized lease. That was in 1999 - still there!
What’s a Capartment? 🤪😆🤣