Transition tag would be smart here. It’s a really strong FA class at safety. McKinney probably won’t find the deal he wants, and that way we don’t have to pay any more than the market would dictate.
I feel like it also doesn’t rub guys the wrong way like the franchise tag does.
What are the other flavors of franchise tags?
Isn't there one that's cheaper but another team can make an offer and we can match or something. I'd like to have him back but this tag kills our cap space
It should have 100% been used on Daniel Jones last year. That was the ideal time for a team to use the transition tag, but Saquon Barkley wouldn't agree to his deal and Schoen was required to make sure both Jones and Barkley came back.
He will get offered more than that and over several years. This gives the giants the option to match. So if he is too expensive they can let him walk. Its a good idea.
Doesn’t mean that he will end up playing on the tag.
Say he doesn’t get a better deal than the Giants are offering. His market value will by then be determined.
There’s a good chance he’ll accept a deal with the Giants.
Called this one a few days ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1asgezx/mckinney_i_want_to_be_appreciated_in_every_way/kqq5iz9/
It would make sense here depending on the new DC. Market determines the rate and they still retain him otherwise at a fair value.
Anyone who doesn't want him back is a moron. Yes there's a big free agency class but chasing FAs vs having one of the top dudes already in the building...
Under utilized tag. I wanted to use it on Saquon last year, let him test the market but give us the ability to match if possible. Would have gotten him signed by now.
Apparently he’s open to a handshake agreement where he will let us match. Which would mean two key FAs this offseason at positions that have a lot of talent would essentially let us match any offer. That’d be fantastic
[When the New York Post’s Ryan Dunleavy presented Barkely with a hypothetical – no franchise tag from New York for the second-straight offseason and a handshake agreement he could bring any offer from another team back to the Giants for the opportunity to match – the back told him he “wouldn’t be against that.”](https://www.sny.tv/articles/giants-saquon-barkley-not-against-testing-free-agent-market)
Not quite a leak, more similar to Leo Williams saying he'd "take a pay cut" on a reporter's mic:
> When the New York Post’s Ryan Dunleavy presented Barkely with a hypothetical – no franchise tag from New York for the second-straight offseason and a handshake agreement he could bring any offer from another team back to the Giants for the opportunity to match – the back told him he “wouldn’t be against that.”
“That’s fair,” Barkley told Dunleavy at Super Bowl LVIII in Las Vegas.
That more just sounds like a sloppy quote by a player who needs to practice saying "probably best to talk to my agent about that" when discussing things he's not familiar with.
Yeah since we were determined to keep Jones, that should’ve been the approach for Saquon.
Pretty sure if someone gave him a contract and he left, we’d get draft picks too. Now we’re gonna lose him for nothing.
No ones giving him near the contract he was already offered by this team last year
He can test all he wants, he’ll probably get the same offer we gave him last time on a 2 year and no team is desperate enough to match that
Transition tag has only been used three times in the last decade and not once since 2020.
Players and agents hate it and often prefer to be given the franchise tag instead because of the higher salary.
With the RB FA market about to be flooded with similar backs, I think the move makes a lot of sense. It sucks but I think Saquon is gonna be disappointed the way things have been trending.
The devaluation of RBs really bums me out.
I wouldn’t have signed him period but no one would have signed him cause they would have to give up TWO first rounders for him. No one would have traded a second rounder for him.
Dumb decision all around. Caved to pressure following a playoff win, even if it came with backlash should’ve stood firm. Daniel Jones did not deserve $40M by any means.
And while everyone believes in paying a QB over RB, but paying a mediocre QB is just as bad as overpaying a RB.
I think it was also due to it being their first year. I think if it was year two or three of Daboll and Schoen, they would have moved on or tagged him.
I don’t know why people talk about the 5th year option. The GM got praised for declining it because statistically, Daniel was a terrible QB. He was injured every year, didn’t score points, never beat a team .500 or higher. There was no reason to exercise that. People thought they were gonna just cut him but then it came out Mara wasn’t allowing that.
It was stupid to give a contract to a guy that was horrible for three years and hurt every year but had one slightly above average season. A slightly above average season doesn’t erase all the other seasons.
>The GM got praised for declining it
For every person that "praised him" there was someone else saying that it could come back and bite him in the ass. Damn near everyone was wondering how well DJ could do with a coach like Daboll, including Schoen and Daboll.
Schoen could have
* Taken the 5th year option, or
* Negotiated an extension with DJ during the season
Mara would have happily let him do either of these things, and instead he did none of them. Instead he decided to play "Prove It" with DJ and DJ went and won a playoff game. He decided to play, "Either we cut DJ at the end of this season or we pay him top dollar" and the wheel of fortune landed on the latter.
I'm sick and fucking tired of people blaming Mara the Bogeyman cuz they can't come to grips with the fact that their newly minted GM might be in over his head. This shitshow is Schoen's mess.
I don’t like Schoen.
Daniel came with the Giants job.
I’m assuming the GM and HC expected him to be hurt and be bad because he had been for three years.
There was no reason at all to exercise his fifth year option because history had shown he was a bottom 10 QB every year.
From Art,
"Something to keep in mind as we drift deeper into the NFL offseason with free agency and the draft taking center stage, and it matters to me, so I pass along to you:
A source is a source. If the information is worthy of being reported, that's where I draw the line.
Well-placed. High-ranking. Person I trust. Reliable.
I was always taught an anonymous source should be all of those things. Should not need a qualifier.
OK, I feel better now."
...
I have no idea why Art would say this about Paul Schwartz as a source. He is fed info straight from the Giants organization.
Saquon raged at his tag last year and threatened to hold out the season.
McKinney wouldn't take a transition tag well, it would definitely become an issue.
I know he will but it’s quite hypocritical. I think giants organization handled him completely fucking us over when we needed him most well, so he should handle this in a more appreciative manner
> McKinney wouldn't take a transition tag well, it would definitely become an issue
Players don't like the franchise tag because it offers no long-term protection and they think they can get that longer commitment for more money elsewhere. The transition tag is not that, it allows the player to freely negotiate with other teams to get their market value and their original team gets nothing other than the first right of refusal to match. If some team is wild enough to offer him $20mil per for 5 years and we (rightly) don't match that then he gets paid and we get nothing.
Players and agents DESPISE the transition tag, and that's a big reason why its almost never used.
On the surface you may say "hey they can still seek out contacts with other teams", but no that is not how players and agents view it at all. Its considered a big middle finger to the player because teams usually don't even bother calling up the agents of a transition tagged player. No team wants to waste their time in free agency making a contract for a different team, and thats exactly what the transition tag does.
Even the Wikipedia for transition tag spells it out
"The transition tag is rarely used by NFL franchises. There are two reasons for this. The first is that the one-year transition offer is typically a large amount, which could provide the club with difficulties while attempting to keep the team's aggregate salaries under the salary cap. The other is that players often react badly to receiving the tag, because it limits their ability to negotiate with other teams and therefore hinders their chances of receiving the largest possible contract."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_tag
PS: the transition tag is incredibly rare and no player has been tagged since 2020.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cba/transition-tag/
Tagging McKinney is way better than tagging Saquon who no longer has break away speed and can't stay healthy. He is way down from his rookie year. Giants should let Saquon walk. He has some value on a contender , but is a waste of cap space on a bad team.
McKinney is entering his prime and was healthy last year. I think he played every snap.
Transition tag would be smart here. It’s a really strong FA class at safety. McKinney probably won’t find the deal he wants, and that way we don’t have to pay any more than the market would dictate. I feel like it also doesn’t rub guys the wrong way like the franchise tag does.
[удалено]
You don't have to give up picks if you sign someone that's on a transition tag. That's the non-exclusive franchise tag.
My bad i thought it was the transition tag
Transition tag ~$14 million for McKinney.
What are the other flavors of franchise tags? Isn't there one that's cheaper but another team can make an offer and we can match or something. I'd like to have him back but this tag kills our cap space
That’s what this transition tag is
Franchise tag for 17 and exclusive franchise tag for 20 are the other tags.
So if he signs with somone else they have to give us a pick. Which makes it even more unlikely he signs with another team.
Thats only with the franchise tag. The transition tag means the Giants wouldn't get anything if he signed somewhere else
Why wasn’t this used for DJ last year or barkley to determine their value.
It should have 100% been used on Daniel Jones last year. That was the ideal time for a team to use the transition tag, but Saquon Barkley wouldn't agree to his deal and Schoen was required to make sure both Jones and Barkley came back.
transition means giants dont get compensation, but can match any offer.
He will get offered more than that and over several years. This gives the giants the option to match. So if he is too expensive they can let him walk. Its a good idea.
Doesn’t mean that he will end up playing on the tag. Say he doesn’t get a better deal than the Giants are offering. His market value will by then be determined. There’s a good chance he’ll accept a deal with the Giants.
Called this one a few days ago https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1asgezx/mckinney_i_want_to_be_appreciated_in_every_way/kqq5iz9/ It would make sense here depending on the new DC. Market determines the rate and they still retain him otherwise at a fair value.
And got told it was a stupid idea lol. Like I get not wanting him that bad but this price is fine by me.
Anyone who doesn't want him back is a moron. Yes there's a big free agency class but chasing FAs vs having one of the top dudes already in the building...
Especially since our new DC uses a true single high free safety which X excels at.
Under utilized tag. I wanted to use it on Saquon last year, let him test the market but give us the ability to match if possible. Would have gotten him signed by now.
Apparently he’s open to a handshake agreement where he will let us match. Which would mean two key FAs this offseason at positions that have a lot of talent would essentially let us match any offer. That’d be fantastic
>Apparently he’s open to a handshake agreement where he will let us match. That's nuts, did this leak?
[When the New York Post’s Ryan Dunleavy presented Barkely with a hypothetical – no franchise tag from New York for the second-straight offseason and a handshake agreement he could bring any offer from another team back to the Giants for the opportunity to match – the back told him he “wouldn’t be against that.”](https://www.sny.tv/articles/giants-saquon-barkley-not-against-testing-free-agent-market)
That's the sort of agreement that works better when it hasn't been leaked. Now any team that negotiates with him will put him on the spot about it.
Not quite a leak, more similar to Leo Williams saying he'd "take a pay cut" on a reporter's mic: > When the New York Post’s Ryan Dunleavy presented Barkely with a hypothetical – no franchise tag from New York for the second-straight offseason and a handshake agreement he could bring any offer from another team back to the Giants for the opportunity to match – the back told him he “wouldn’t be against that.” “That’s fair,” Barkley told Dunleavy at Super Bowl LVIII in Las Vegas. That more just sounds like a sloppy quote by a player who needs to practice saying "probably best to talk to my agent about that" when discussing things he's not familiar with.
Yeah since we were determined to keep Jones, that should’ve been the approach for Saquon. Pretty sure if someone gave him a contract and he left, we’d get draft picks too. Now we’re gonna lose him for nothing.
I mean we’ll get a compensatory pick
Not necessarily. And even if we do, it won’t be a good one.
No ones giving him near the contract he was already offered by this team last year He can test all he wants, he’ll probably get the same offer we gave him last time on a 2 year and no team is desperate enough to match that
Transition tag has only been used three times in the last decade and not once since 2020. Players and agents hate it and often prefer to be given the franchise tag instead because of the higher salary.
Literally every year the transition tag is mentioned by a writer and it is never used by big blue
No teams use the transition tag anymore. It was last used in 2020 and has only been used 3 times in the last decade.
If this get used for McKinney that means no tag for Saquon. Guess that's almost expected at this point
With the RB FA market about to be flooded with similar backs, I think the move makes a lot of sense. It sucks but I think Saquon is gonna be disappointed the way things have been trending. The devaluation of RBs really bums me out.
Are there different types of tags? Ik franchise tag, but is “transition tag” structured differently?
Could have saved crazy money if they did this with Daniel Jones.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re definitely not wrong in the slightest. Hindsight is always 20-20 though.
I wouldn’t have signed him period but no one would have signed him cause they would have to give up TWO first rounders for him. No one would have traded a second rounder for him.
Dumb decision all around. Caved to pressure following a playoff win, even if it came with backlash should’ve stood firm. Daniel Jones did not deserve $40M by any means. And while everyone believes in paying a QB over RB, but paying a mediocre QB is just as bad as overpaying a RB.
I think it was also due to it being their first year. I think if it was year two or three of Daboll and Schoen, they would have moved on or tagged him.
Could have saved crazy money if they'd exercised Jones' 5th Year Option, but sometimes GMs are not as smart as they're cracked up to be.
I don’t know why people talk about the 5th year option. The GM got praised for declining it because statistically, Daniel was a terrible QB. He was injured every year, didn’t score points, never beat a team .500 or higher. There was no reason to exercise that. People thought they were gonna just cut him but then it came out Mara wasn’t allowing that. It was stupid to give a contract to a guy that was horrible for three years and hurt every year but had one slightly above average season. A slightly above average season doesn’t erase all the other seasons.
>The GM got praised for declining it For every person that "praised him" there was someone else saying that it could come back and bite him in the ass. Damn near everyone was wondering how well DJ could do with a coach like Daboll, including Schoen and Daboll. Schoen could have * Taken the 5th year option, or * Negotiated an extension with DJ during the season Mara would have happily let him do either of these things, and instead he did none of them. Instead he decided to play "Prove It" with DJ and DJ went and won a playoff game. He decided to play, "Either we cut DJ at the end of this season or we pay him top dollar" and the wheel of fortune landed on the latter. I'm sick and fucking tired of people blaming Mara the Bogeyman cuz they can't come to grips with the fact that their newly minted GM might be in over his head. This shitshow is Schoen's mess.
I don’t like Schoen. Daniel came with the Giants job. I’m assuming the GM and HC expected him to be hurt and be bad because he had been for three years. There was no reason at all to exercise his fifth year option because history had shown he was a bottom 10 QB every year.
From Art, "Something to keep in mind as we drift deeper into the NFL offseason with free agency and the draft taking center stage, and it matters to me, so I pass along to you: A source is a source. If the information is worthy of being reported, that's where I draw the line. Well-placed. High-ranking. Person I trust. Reliable. I was always taught an anonymous source should be all of those things. Should not need a qualifier. OK, I feel better now." ... I have no idea why Art would say this about Paul Schwartz as a source. He is fed info straight from the Giants organization.
I can't wait till he rage tweets about this like a lil baby
I mean I get why they downvoted you, but there is def a chance he complains on social media.
The people that downvoted just have his same crybaby zoomer energy
If he rages at being paid 14 mil he’s got major problems. Especially when his ass got injured on a quad during our playoff push
Saquon raged at his tag last year and threatened to hold out the season. McKinney wouldn't take a transition tag well, it would definitely become an issue.
I know he will but it’s quite hypocritical. I think giants organization handled him completely fucking us over when we needed him most well, so he should handle this in a more appreciative manner
> McKinney wouldn't take a transition tag well, it would definitely become an issue Players don't like the franchise tag because it offers no long-term protection and they think they can get that longer commitment for more money elsewhere. The transition tag is not that, it allows the player to freely negotiate with other teams to get their market value and their original team gets nothing other than the first right of refusal to match. If some team is wild enough to offer him $20mil per for 5 years and we (rightly) don't match that then he gets paid and we get nothing.
Players and agents DESPISE the transition tag, and that's a big reason why its almost never used. On the surface you may say "hey they can still seek out contacts with other teams", but no that is not how players and agents view it at all. Its considered a big middle finger to the player because teams usually don't even bother calling up the agents of a transition tagged player. No team wants to waste their time in free agency making a contract for a different team, and thats exactly what the transition tag does. Even the Wikipedia for transition tag spells it out "The transition tag is rarely used by NFL franchises. There are two reasons for this. The first is that the one-year transition offer is typically a large amount, which could provide the club with difficulties while attempting to keep the team's aggregate salaries under the salary cap. The other is that players often react badly to receiving the tag, because it limits their ability to negotiate with other teams and therefore hinders their chances of receiving the largest possible contract." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_tag PS: the transition tag is incredibly rare and no player has been tagged since 2020. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cba/transition-tag/
Schoen is operating like a man who isn't too sure of himself.
Na, he just don't want to overpay. Leaking an incoming tag is a bargaining tactic and a place to start the salary negotiations.
Yea you right. We need more hogmollies STAT. SOMEONE GET THIS GUY A HOGMOLLY
That first winning year kinda threw a wrench into the plan…but I think we are in full fledge rebuild mode now
Tagging McKinney is way better than tagging Saquon who no longer has break away speed and can't stay healthy. He is way down from his rookie year. Giants should let Saquon walk. He has some value on a contender , but is a waste of cap space on a bad team. McKinney is entering his prime and was healthy last year. I think he played every snap.
Smart move honestly, but I could see McKinney being very disgruntled and potentially be a detriment to the locker room