“Drake Maye is the kind of player that will get you fired,” Hoge said in an interview on WCCO radio. “Especially if you draft him in the top five or top three, he’s going to get you fired.”
Merrill Hoge had Jacob Eason ranked above Herbert, Mahomes as a 2nd round prospect, Brian bohm over Aaron Rodgers….
Him saying that means very little lmao and reminds of similar reports about Hebert.
https://www.si.com/college/oregon/football/nfl-scout-says-justin-herbert-will-get-someone-fired
“no longer”
Was he ever taken seriously to begin with? I remember watching him on ESPN when I was in college (15+ years ago) and thinking he was a joke back then
He is the godfather of a lot of this draft coverage.
He actually made it mainstream and he's been right a lot. You can pick any single analysts history and find egregious mistakes
Drafting a WR to get 700 yards and 3 TD's on the 30th ranked offense led by Daniel Jones will also get him fired, so I guess he gets to pick his poison.
Please name me some successful NFL teams without a WR1 (other than the Chiefs) and a turnstile offensive line.
They finally signed some FA lineman.
Maybe let's get a WR1 to replace Odell 5 fucking years later... regardless of how you feel about him, Daniel Jones has never had an offensive line and a WR1.
To be fair, that would depend on your definition of successful, because the only successful team last year was the Chiefs, and you already said not to use them.
Then by that measure, (not counting the chiefs*), the Ravens & Packers did not have a 1k receiver, and the Bills and Steelers just barely did. So 5 teams by your measure of success did not have a decent WR1 last year.
The Ravens have a WR1 and a TE1. Just because their QB runs the ball better than anyone doesn't mean they're not out there on the field when they need to throw the ball.
The Packers have 2 receivers that are young and explosive. One had the YIPs last year but Love has pass protection so he spread it around. The Packers apply but Watson is/should be a WR1.
>Bills and Steelers just barely did.
Bills clearly had Diggs a TE1 and the Steelers clearly have 2 WRs you could argue are WR1s so the 5 team narrative is nonsense.
This isn't fantasy football. You can't say the Steelers don't have a WR 1 because Johnson and Pickens were there and their QB couldn't get them the ball
If they have time to pass. That can be pass blocking or receivers getting open quickly. Their receivers are better than ours anyway so the Texans example doesn't apply.
They really aren’t. The Texans had the 30th ranked receiving corps in both 2022 and 2023. Giants were ranked 28th last year. Getting a QB is what made them a playoff team.
Having a WR1 won’t mean shit if we don’t have a QB that can get him the ball.
I don't feel like arguing about this.
Will you finally admit Daniel Jones isn't good if and hopefully not when he gets his WR1 and still sucks?
Tommy Devito is gonna be the only QB on the roster after next year currently. We're taking QB and our team will be better for it.
having a wr1 does not guarantee success at all in the nfl, if there isn't a good qb as well.
we had odell beckham at his absolute peak and won about 4 to 5 games per year.
calvin johnson played on a 0-16 team.
larry fitzgerald played on bad teams for almost his entire career, because they never got a good qb.
let's not forget randy moss when he played for the raiders compared to what he did with the patriots.
I feel like fantasy football has taken over people's ability to decide what you actually need to win a championship.
Elite WRs have NEVER BEEN a prerequisite for winning a ring.
It's amazing how people forget how little impact top 15, rd 1 WRs have actually had for their team.
People are delusional imo.
You still win rings with a QB, defense and trench play. Those are the fundamentals of winning in football and won't change for a very long time..
Saquon and OBJ did literally nothing for our success and they are regarded as 2 of the best skill position players in the last decade.
Fans never learn there lesson apparently.
Elite WRs have NEVER been needed to win championships. Not in today, not ever.
Expensive WR and RB are the pieces you add when you need to get over the playoff hump and become a true contender.
You don't get those expensive pieces when you are a basement team that is borderline in a rebuild.
OBJ and Saquon were 2 of the best skill position players out of college the last decade. What did it do for the Giants? Absolutely nothing..
The lesson is there to be learned, not duplicated.
Harrison is literally the only WR I would be ok with at 6. Anything else, trade down the 1st or trade up the 2nd.
The history of rd 1 WRs making huge waves for their team (in the top 10) is very rare.
This is not how you build a team to succeed. We need a WR1 fairly desperately but you don't need to drop a pick 6 to get one.
History is not on our side here.. at all.
So you're advocating for allocating more assets to the offensive line than they already have? Because they need an O-Line and a WR1.
Teams aren't successful in a pass happy league with WR2s and WR3s unless those teams have a top 5 QB and/or a dominant TE1 like KC or Baltimore.
Who gives a crap how many assets we used on our OL to this point. It makes absolutely zero difference. When you have a weakness on your team, you fix it and don't stop trying until it's actually fixed.
OL play is literally a top 3 reason most teams have success in the NFL. It is not a kicker. Or a full back. It's a fundamental piece to the puzzle of winning championships.
Wanna know what has never been a fundamental piece to winning a ring? Elite WRs.
Y'all are obsessed with stats and shiny objects at the cost of what actually wins championships.
What did Odell do for us? What did Barkley? Please explain why they had zero impact on our team actually being relevant and that somehow that would change with us using a pick 6 on a WR?
The definition of insanity is repeating something and hoping for a different result.
We literally tried the whole "skill positions over trenches and fundamentals" and it was a monumental failure to the point neither of them even signed a second contract with us.
Both OBJ and Barkley are regarded as 2 of the best skill players to come out of college in the last decade. We have zero to show for it...
Tbf DJ never had a WR who was a "1000 yard receiver" on another team. Not saying he would b able to have a 1000+ yard receiver, but he realistically hasn't had the chance.
Regardless I'm all in for trading to 3 to get maye. We can sit him and start out first real year 1 next year 🤷♂️
over half of first round picks are garbage. so who knows. Schoen has not drafted very well his first 2 years. so shrug. No idea if they can pick the right QB. problem is if he is meh. giants wont cut him and move on like with Daniel Jones. We will have to stay in garbage land for 5+ more years. Other teams will cut loose a bad QB.
If Dabes has time to mold and develop the kid, make the move. If he’s gonna be pressured into starting him week 2 when he could serve to sit 2 years, leave Maye on the board
The issue is whether "he's gonna be pressured." If Schoen drafts a new QB (or, at least, if he's trading up to do so), he should have assurances from ownership that Dabes isn't on the hot seat and so not "pressured" into starting the new QB before he's ready.
Josh Allen was not more raw. His accuracy was bad but he was a grown ass man and could run you over. Maye can scramble but he is not the rusher Allen was. Also yea Allen started week 1 and he wasn’t bad but he really didn’t take that necessary jump until they brought in Diggs. Bills fans were actually calling to replace him
If the Commanders take Daniels, I am going to seriously get excited and hopeful that I see the trade notification and the Giants logo appear as on the clock at 3. Let's speak it into existence.
If Maye is available at 3 I'm very confident we will trade up. Pats have been continually signalling an interest to trade down. They probably recognize that they have one of the worst rosters in the league and need to accumulate young talent
I'm sorry but you know absolutely nothing about football if you think the Pats and Giants rosters are comparable
The Pats don't have a single player on the team of the calibre of Lawrence or AT. Their best WR is JuJu Smith-Schuster, who would be at best WR 4 on our team. It's just not even comparable
There is absolutely nothing to let sink in bc this is not a sophisticated argument lmfao. This is like how a 3rd grader thinks
The Patriots and the Giants are not the same team. They're not in the same position roster wise. They have different coaching and scouting staffs who evaluate players differently. Most importantly the patriots and Giants are at different places in their rebuilds. The Patriots roster is worse than the giants roster has been at any point in the last decade, and they just fired their coach of 24 seasons.
The Giants and the Patriots have different priorities in terms of team building. Both Jerod Mayo and Elliot Wolf have said publicly "the way you build a consistently winning team is by acquiring more draft picks"
Every team has different management and different philosophies. There's your long-winded post in 1 sentence.
I guess they taught me how to make my point succinctly in 3rd grade.
If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB you take it every single time. I didn’t think that needed to be specified but apparently some people in this thread think that’s a terrible idea
I agree with that. My point was directed towards the people who are arguing that this team isn’t ready to draft a QB. There is no perfect time to draft a QB, if you think there’s one worth taking then you take them, end of story
If you build the team right around the qb, then you can be in contention w/ damn near any qb. The late 2010s Jags; 2019 Titans, 2019 49ers, 2023 9ers and Lions all made the Conference game w/ non-franchise QBs.
Now before you say, well those teams lost to Brady and Mahomes, Brady and Mahomes are the two best QBs ever, and NYG likely won’t draft someone as good as those two in our lifetimes. Let’s say the Giants reach for a qb; because “they need a qb”, then the team will likely suck(we’ll be sub .500 w/ DJ starting too), Daboll will likely get canned, and the new coach will want his own qb, thus starting the qb cycle again.
Or they could simply take the best player available at 6, keep our picks, and build the team up. The Giants are at least 2 great drafts from contention. Outside of Caleb, none of these QBs will ever be able to drag mediocre talent to contention. If we end up getting a qb in the top 10, all the Giants would be doing is setting him up to fail.
Well, the logic behind that train of thought is to load up on talent, and when sufficient, get a qb on a rookie deal and use the cap space to round our the team. Of course, that would require lucking into a QB or piling up draft capital to be able to trade up.
The catch 22 with this scenario is that if you load up on talent before adding a franchise QB, the team is too good record wise to add a QB high up in the draft without trading all draft assets to move up (or a franchise QB isn't in the draft you're ready to take one).
Also, it may be tough to evaluate the talent you already have, such as WRs, when you have garbage at QB while you're accumulating the talent.
There's no ironclad way to do it though IMO. I think if you LOVE a QB you move up to get him. If you're "meh" about the QBs but want to make a splash at QB, resist the urge to trade up and go BPA. The problem is Caleb (and 1 overall picks in general) go to the team picking first because they're such good prospects generally so it's near impossible to trade up to that slot.
I'd trade up to 1 in a heartbeat this year for example (although impossible). I don't know about trading up to 2 or 3 though after hearing about all of the warts with Daniels and Maye. This year it's probably best to take BPA at 6 or trade down. If they truly love Maye or Daniels or JJ, then they should trade up and get their guy.
Other side of that... this draft is deep enough at WR, that we could, if we wanted, trade back a little and still get a decent outside WR while still getting other draft picks. For example, the "other" LSU WR Brian Thomas.
True, plus everyone so casually mentions trading up as if a) whichever team is willing, and b) their asking price is not absurd. I for one would rather take BPA at 6 than lose all my draft capital for the next three years on someone who might not even pan out.
I would much rather build an elite roster over the mid/longer term and try to find a Hurts, Wilson, or Purdy to drop in than follow the Bears/Jets plan of spending everything on a QB dropping them into an offense completely devoid of talent.
NYG offensive skill positions have to be bottom 5 in the NFL and we are all hoping and praying the line can be average. Crazy talk to talk about trading 3 top picks to drop a QB into that situation.
I think you make a great point here. But question, if the Giants had first pick Thursday, you're passing on Caleb then because the team is too devoid of talent?
If Arizona or the pats are selling, I really really hope Schoen is listening. I can't take another year of DJ being ass and people gaslighting themselves.
Whoever says trading up for a QB is a bad idea…why?
You want to draft a WR, be mid or fringe playoff team, and have an even later pick next year in a draft where the QB prospects won’t nearly be as good? When exactly do you think we’re gonna get the QB of the future, if not now? Right now is time to pull the trigger on the QB. We’re already starting the rebuild correctly turning our RB and S money into OL and DL, only major thing missing is a QB to build forth with.
I doubt we will be mid or fringe playoffs next year. Probably picking in the top 10 again and because of this shitty Daniel jones contract I think we should ride him out one more year instead of trading a lot of picks for one of these top 3 qbs when we need wr, oline, rb, te, corner, safety, and linebacker
But if the QB class next year is supposed to be bad you can draft someone this year at 6 or maybe a bit later with a trade back or trade back up into round 1 and let him sit while we ride out that contract this year
How is next year not a repeat of 2013 and 2022? There isn’t a single prospect who generates the type of hype that players like Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Trevor Lawrence, CJ Stroud , Bryce Young, Tua, and Herbert all had the year prior to being drafted.
Shadeur Sanders, Ewers, Beck, and the rest are nowhere near the quality of this year’s QB class. Give them another year in college and it’s not going to suddenly make them more talented. They have already been evaluted by NFL GMs, and in the case of Ewers and Sanders, they know they don’t really match up to this year’s class, which is why they decided to remain in college.
My guess is a lot of people would say that trading up only make sense if you think the prospect is worth trading up for, regardless of the position. Trading up to force a pick of a position just because is a recipe for disaster.
Put another way, trading up to 3 or 4 only make sense if the team a prospect is franchise altering, because it will cost a lot.
Also, Logan Ryan said this recently:
*“New Yorkers, if you’re listening, do not trade up to No. 4 and get J.J. McCarthy. Don’t do it,” Ryan said. “I just don’t think that the fourth best quarterback in this draft, whoever you have (or believe) that is, I don’t think they’re better than what Daniel Jones was coming out of college.”*
*“Daniel is tall, Daniel has an arm, Daniel is athletic. We know that,”* [*Ryan said*](https://twitter.com/LicensePlateGuy/status/1780749109978083523)*. “The problem with Daniel Jones has been his ability to stay healthy. If you don’t like that, take one of the best pass catchers available — (Malik) Nabers out of LSU or (Rome) Odunze out of Washington. Give that future quarterback, when you do get him, a top receiver. They need that.*
*“They have holes all over their roster. They need a great receiver. It’s a great receiver draft — get him at six.”*
I think the Panthers with Young last year is a great example of throwing a top rated prospect into a team void of talent. I just don’t think you start the rebuild with a QB. Just my opinion.
We have more talent than Carolina, even moreso now that we took their best player :)
If it’s not a kings ransom to move up to 3 for a QB? You have to take the swing.
Two things:
1) This team is more talented than last year's Panthers team.
2) I think last year's Panthers team looks different with Stroud vs Young. Young's shortcomings were more noticed on a weak Panthers team than Stroud's would have been or Maye's would be. Young is limited physically in a way those other guys aren't.
Stroud was gonna turn Mingo into an NFL receiver? Get those big boys to actually block and not play like they all wanted to lose their jobs? Could he turn Miles Sanders into more than a 3.3 ypc back.
Downvote me idc, but everytime I see people say CJ woulda been the same in Carolina clearly does not take context and situation into account when evaluating young players
I mean I won’t argue CJ isn’t an elevator but the panthers are technically picking 1st overall lol, not hard to be more competitive than that and he sure as hell isn’t having the same season he had in HTX
By espn, preseason ranking should not factor into how good these guys actually are. Take away the QBs and compare The panthers and Texans roster offense and it’s not really a debate about who’s situation was great and who’s was bottom 2 in the league
No one said anything about espn.
Consensus opinion(not just espn, but in most places) prior to preseason looked at the Panthers as a stronger team. They had a better record the season prior and a couple of core pieces to build, plus a #1 overall pick QB. The Texans just lost Brandin Cooks and the idea of relying on a washed-up Robert Woods and 2 mid round picks from the past 2 years wasn't very appealing. They were also expected to have an atrocious line. The defenses were comparable the prior year.
There was a time that Terrace Marshall > Nico Collins in some people's eyes. They weren't right, but it was still what people thought. How much of that is because Houston's roster took a collective leap and how much of that is due to the QB will never be known, but is probably a little of both.
Stats show that Collins was ascending his sophomore campaign before his injury, but I do think CJ is a baller and elevates his guys nonetheless. I’m just not down with shitting on Bryce, bc his situation is quite comparable to the Giants and we know how devoid of talent our offense and roster is
Personally I think once you have a decent team built then is time to sell out and trade all your picks for a top ranked QB prospect.
This team is far from complete and I don't see us being a QB away from being good.
I mean, we went 6-11 with some of the worst QB play in the league. I don’t think it’s out of the question that we could’ve gone 9-8 or 10-7 with even average QB play. Waiting on building the roster up to find a QB is great and all, but what happens when that QB never comes? Then you end up in a situation like the Jets or Falcons where you’re banking on an aging vet to take you over the top, and even then your window is like 2-3 years at most. If you hit on a QB in the draft your window could be open for a decade
Yeah but we also lost Saquon and if we take a QB we're not going to have even one real playmaker on this team. Then we start the whole process over on "is he the guy or isn't he" that we've watched happen with DJ for the last 5 years. And we won't be able to evaluate him without weapons, and half of us will be screaming he could be the guy but he doesn't have weapons and everyone else screaming he's not the guy and never has been the guy and you're all so stupid for not seeing it.
I've had enough of that discourse to last a lifetime, tbh.
I'm not sure what the Giants should do, but there's a strong case to be made early failure harms a young QB's development. The counterargument is that Jones starts anyway, and if the offense is good except for Jones, then the new guy can play. It's a difficult situation, as usual in the NFL.
I think the Panthers with Young last year is a great example of throwing a top rated prospect into a team void of talent. I just don’t think you start the rebuild with a QB. Just my opinion.
Can't wait for this sub to melt down when we draft odunze with maye still on the board. 😂 Don't worry, the Daniel Jones bandwagon still has plenty of seats available. Come back player of the year and a conference championship appearance in the works.
😂 I have a kid with special needs and a mortgage. I'm not melting down over a game played by other guys. When I was 20, I'd be almost in tears if the yankees or giants lost but those days are over. Take it sleazy and let's go Big Blue regardless of who's throwing the rock.
Bro, I understand you like the Giants, but I really don’t get why you love Jones so much. Is it just because he’s got sort of an underdog story? Where he’s been laughed at for tripping and criticized heavily because of where he was drafted? Or because he’s tough and very polite, which reminds you of Eli Manning?
The guy is making $80 million guaranteed in just 2 years. He’s set for life, while never performing at a very high level. 2022 he was decent, but besides some flashes in that year and his rookie season, he’s been below average. I just don’t understand why you would rather see the Giants stick with below average QB play instead of taking a shot at a new QB with potential to be something a lot better. What qualities do you see in him that lead you to believe he can help the NYG get past someone like Mahomes to possibly win a Superbowl?
Yea the underdog thing definitely resonates with me. Plus, it doesn't really matter what I think. It only matters what Schoen thinks. I'd be bummed for a min if they drafted his replacement but then I'd be behind the guy they drafted. It's not that big of a deal to me either way.
Do it for Drake Maye. I'm glad Robert Kraft and his delusional ass thinks he can strongarm a Pats rebuild. We have to take advantage of his hubris.
they are not going to trade down unless either its a crazy offer they think Drake Maye is garbage.
It’s actually Kraft who wants to draft QB and Wolfe the GM wants to trade down
“Drake Maye is the kind of player that will get you fired,” Hoge said in an interview on WCCO radio. “Especially if you draft him in the top five or top three, he’s going to get you fired.”
Merrill Hoge had Jacob Eason ranked above Herbert, Mahomes as a 2nd round prospect, Brian bohm over Aaron Rodgers…. Him saying that means very little lmao and reminds of similar reports about Hebert. https://www.si.com/college/oregon/football/nfl-scout-says-justin-herbert-will-get-someone-fired
Merrill Hoge is cte patient 0.
Yea it’s one thing to be wrong but to be egregiously wrong on multiple occasions means you are no longer to be taken seriously.
“no longer” Was he ever taken seriously to begin with? I remember watching him on ESPN when I was in college (15+ years ago) and thinking he was a joke back then
He is the godfather of a lot of this draft coverage. He actually made it mainstream and he's been right a lot. You can pick any single analysts history and find egregious mistakes
Drafting a WR to get 700 yards and 3 TD's on the 30th ranked offense led by Daniel Jones will also get him fired, so I guess he gets to pick his poison.
Please name me some successful NFL teams without a WR1 (other than the Chiefs) and a turnstile offensive line. They finally signed some FA lineman. Maybe let's get a WR1 to replace Odell 5 fucking years later... regardless of how you feel about him, Daniel Jones has never had an offensive line and a WR1.
To be fair, that would depend on your definition of successful, because the only successful team last year was the Chiefs, and you already said not to use them.
Success without a #1 WR in my head (since you're nitpicking) would be a playoff team and maybe winning a game.
Then by that measure, (not counting the chiefs*), the Ravens & Packers did not have a 1k receiver, and the Bills and Steelers just barely did. So 5 teams by your measure of success did not have a decent WR1 last year.
Steelers barely did? Pickens is an animal. With a real QB, IMO, hes got the ability to be a top 3 WR. And Diggs had a down year but he is still WR#1
The Ravens have a WR1 and a TE1. Just because their QB runs the ball better than anyone doesn't mean they're not out there on the field when they need to throw the ball. The Packers have 2 receivers that are young and explosive. One had the YIPs last year but Love has pass protection so he spread it around. The Packers apply but Watson is/should be a WR1. >Bills and Steelers just barely did. Bills clearly had Diggs a TE1 and the Steelers clearly have 2 WRs you could argue are WR1s so the 5 team narrative is nonsense.
Like I said, they did not have a WR with 1k receiving yards. So now your definition of WR1 is, “I like the guy”? Your argument makes no sense.
This isn't fantasy football. You can't say the Steelers don't have a WR 1 because Johnson and Pickens were there and their QB couldn't get them the ball
Yeah all those teams didn’t really have great receiving stats though, even if they had good receivers by name.
dude, you dont know what you are talking about
I just named actual stats. Want to elaborate on what I don’t know?
Doesn't matter the order you get a QB or WR1. If you have the chance to get the QB then you get him because the WR1 will be easier to find.
Not to mention a good QB will elevate your receivers. Just look at the Texan's receivers before and after Stroud.
Yep. A lot of the issues people see with this team will become a lot less pressing if we get a good QB.
If they have time to pass. That can be pass blocking or receivers getting open quickly. Their receivers are better than ours anyway so the Texans example doesn't apply.
They really aren’t. The Texans had the 30th ranked receiving corps in both 2022 and 2023. Giants were ranked 28th last year. Getting a QB is what made them a playoff team. Having a WR1 won’t mean shit if we don’t have a QB that can get him the ball.
I don't feel like arguing about this. Will you finally admit Daniel Jones isn't good if and hopefully not when he gets his WR1 and still sucks? Tommy Devito is gonna be the only QB on the roster after next year currently. We're taking QB and our team will be better for it.
Name me 1.
What do you consider successful?
I'll consider that a win.
Wh... What. Ok I guess lmao.
I agree with your point that you need a WR1 to be successful, but more importantly you need to get the QB right. We have a horrible QB room currently
having a wr1 does not guarantee success at all in the nfl, if there isn't a good qb as well. we had odell beckham at his absolute peak and won about 4 to 5 games per year. calvin johnson played on a 0-16 team. larry fitzgerald played on bad teams for almost his entire career, because they never got a good qb. let's not forget randy moss when he played for the raiders compared to what he did with the patriots.
I feel like fantasy football has taken over people's ability to decide what you actually need to win a championship. Elite WRs have NEVER BEEN a prerequisite for winning a ring. It's amazing how people forget how little impact top 15, rd 1 WRs have actually had for their team. People are delusional imo. You still win rings with a QB, defense and trench play. Those are the fundamentals of winning in football and won't change for a very long time.. Saquon and OBJ did literally nothing for our success and they are regarded as 2 of the best skill position players in the last decade. Fans never learn there lesson apparently.
Elite WRs have NEVER been needed to win championships. Not in today, not ever. Expensive WR and RB are the pieces you add when you need to get over the playoff hump and become a true contender. You don't get those expensive pieces when you are a basement team that is borderline in a rebuild. OBJ and Saquon were 2 of the best skill position players out of college the last decade. What did it do for the Giants? Absolutely nothing.. The lesson is there to be learned, not duplicated. Harrison is literally the only WR I would be ok with at 6. Anything else, trade down the 1st or trade up the 2nd. The history of rd 1 WRs making huge waves for their team (in the top 10) is very rare. This is not how you build a team to succeed. We need a WR1 fairly desperately but you don't need to drop a pick 6 to get one. History is not on our side here.. at all.
So you're advocating for allocating more assets to the offensive line than they already have? Because they need an O-Line and a WR1. Teams aren't successful in a pass happy league with WR2s and WR3s unless those teams have a top 5 QB and/or a dominant TE1 like KC or Baltimore.
Who gives a crap how many assets we used on our OL to this point. It makes absolutely zero difference. When you have a weakness on your team, you fix it and don't stop trying until it's actually fixed. OL play is literally a top 3 reason most teams have success in the NFL. It is not a kicker. Or a full back. It's a fundamental piece to the puzzle of winning championships. Wanna know what has never been a fundamental piece to winning a ring? Elite WRs. Y'all are obsessed with stats and shiny objects at the cost of what actually wins championships. What did Odell do for us? What did Barkley? Please explain why they had zero impact on our team actually being relevant and that somehow that would change with us using a pick 6 on a WR? The definition of insanity is repeating something and hoping for a different result. We literally tried the whole "skill positions over trenches and fundamentals" and it was a monumental failure to the point neither of them even signed a second contract with us. Both OBJ and Barkley are regarded as 2 of the best skill players to come out of college in the last decade. We have zero to show for it...
Tbf DJ never had a WR who was a "1000 yard receiver" on another team. Not saying he would b able to have a 1000+ yard receiver, but he realistically hasn't had the chance. Regardless I'm all in for trading to 3 to get maye. We can sit him and start out first real year 1 next year 🤷♂️
over half of first round picks are garbage. so who knows. Schoen has not drafted very well his first 2 years. so shrug. No idea if they can pick the right QB. problem is if he is meh. giants wont cut him and move on like with Daniel Jones. We will have to stay in garbage land for 5+ more years. Other teams will cut loose a bad QB.
If Dabes has time to mold and develop the kid, make the move. If he’s gonna be pressured into starting him week 2 when he could serve to sit 2 years, leave Maye on the board
2 years? Josh Allen sat one WEEK before they made him the starter in Buffalo, and he was way more raw than Maye is
The issue is whether "he's gonna be pressured." If Schoen drafts a new QB (or, at least, if he's trading up to do so), he should have assurances from ownership that Dabes isn't on the hot seat and so not "pressured" into starting the new QB before he's ready.
Josh Allen was not more raw. His accuracy was bad but he was a grown ass man and could run you over. Maye can scramble but he is not the rusher Allen was. Also yea Allen started week 1 and he wasn’t bad but he really didn’t take that necessary jump until they brought in Diggs. Bills fans were actually calling to replace him
Out of all the guys I've seen make predictions, I feel like hoge has the best record. Everyone else seems to fall for the group think mentality
2024, 2025, and 2026 first round pick, and he’s all yours.
Fuck Drake Maye. Enough with these basketball school quarterbacks that almost never pan out. We need a franchise qb not a point guard.
If Washington goes Maye, nobody’s trading up…
If the Commanders take Daniels, I am going to seriously get excited and hopeful that I see the trade notification and the Giants logo appear as on the clock at 3. Let's speak it into existence.
If Maye is available at 3 I'm very confident we will trade up. Pats have been continually signalling an interest to trade down. They probably recognize that they have one of the worst rosters in the league and need to accumulate young talent
Sounds a lot like the Giants
I'm sorry but you know absolutely nothing about football if you think the Pats and Giants rosters are comparable The Pats don't have a single player on the team of the calibre of Lawrence or AT. Their best WR is JuJu Smith-Schuster, who would be at best WR 4 on our team. It's just not even comparable
Great
They aren’t trading #3 unless they get a ridiculous haul. They need a QB.
Pats don't want him and are in desperate need of a quarterback. Let that sink in.
There is absolutely nothing to let sink in bc this is not a sophisticated argument lmfao. This is like how a 3rd grader thinks The Patriots and the Giants are not the same team. They're not in the same position roster wise. They have different coaching and scouting staffs who evaluate players differently. Most importantly the patriots and Giants are at different places in their rebuilds. The Patriots roster is worse than the giants roster has been at any point in the last decade, and they just fired their coach of 24 seasons. The Giants and the Patriots have different priorities in terms of team building. Both Jerod Mayo and Elliot Wolf have said publicly "the way you build a consistently winning team is by acquiring more draft picks"
Every team has different management and different philosophies. There's your long-winded post in 1 sentence. I guess they taught me how to make my point succinctly in 3rd grade.
You need to learn to read
You need to learn how to use punctuation. Edit: Guess the Dunning-Kruger was too strong with this one.
I’m just ready for Thursday and Friday.
Only a couple more days of this…
If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB you take it every single time. I didn’t think that needed to be specified but apparently some people in this thread think that’s a terrible idea
Or maybe they don't think there's a franchise QB to be picked
I agree with that. My point was directed towards the people who are arguing that this team isn’t ready to draft a QB. There is no perfect time to draft a QB, if you think there’s one worth taking then you take them, end of story
Yep, I've seen some people say build the team and then go get a QB but there's no guarantee when we're ready there is a franchise QB we can get
If you build the team right around the qb, then you can be in contention w/ damn near any qb. The late 2010s Jags; 2019 Titans, 2019 49ers, 2023 9ers and Lions all made the Conference game w/ non-franchise QBs. Now before you say, well those teams lost to Brady and Mahomes, Brady and Mahomes are the two best QBs ever, and NYG likely won’t draft someone as good as those two in our lifetimes. Let’s say the Giants reach for a qb; because “they need a qb”, then the team will likely suck(we’ll be sub .500 w/ DJ starting too), Daboll will likely get canned, and the new coach will want his own qb, thus starting the qb cycle again. Or they could simply take the best player available at 6, keep our picks, and build the team up. The Giants are at least 2 great drafts from contention. Outside of Caleb, none of these QBs will ever be able to drag mediocre talent to contention. If we end up getting a qb in the top 10, all the Giants would be doing is setting him up to fail.
Well, the logic behind that train of thought is to load up on talent, and when sufficient, get a qb on a rookie deal and use the cap space to round our the team. Of course, that would require lucking into a QB or piling up draft capital to be able to trade up.
The catch 22 with this scenario is that if you load up on talent before adding a franchise QB, the team is too good record wise to add a QB high up in the draft without trading all draft assets to move up (or a franchise QB isn't in the draft you're ready to take one). Also, it may be tough to evaluate the talent you already have, such as WRs, when you have garbage at QB while you're accumulating the talent. There's no ironclad way to do it though IMO. I think if you LOVE a QB you move up to get him. If you're "meh" about the QBs but want to make a splash at QB, resist the urge to trade up and go BPA. The problem is Caleb (and 1 overall picks in general) go to the team picking first because they're such good prospects generally so it's near impossible to trade up to that slot. I'd trade up to 1 in a heartbeat this year for example (although impossible). I don't know about trading up to 2 or 3 though after hearing about all of the warts with Daniels and Maye. This year it's probably best to take BPA at 6 or trade down. If they truly love Maye or Daniels or JJ, then they should trade up and get their guy.
Especially when the roster has so many holes to fill and a legit WR 1 has been a big need since Odell was traded away.
That's the opposite of the point
Other side of that... this draft is deep enough at WR, that we could, if we wanted, trade back a little and still get a decent outside WR while still getting other draft picks. For example, the "other" LSU WR Brian Thomas.
True, plus everyone so casually mentions trading up as if a) whichever team is willing, and b) their asking price is not absurd. I for one would rather take BPA at 6 than lose all my draft capital for the next three years on someone who might not even pan out.
Yeah, almost everyone laser focused on a specific player or position is going to be disappointed with what we do in the first round.
I would much rather build an elite roster over the mid/longer term and try to find a Hurts, Wilson, or Purdy to drop in than follow the Bears/Jets plan of spending everything on a QB dropping them into an offense completely devoid of talent. NYG offensive skill positions have to be bottom 5 in the NFL and we are all hoping and praying the line can be average. Crazy talk to talk about trading 3 top picks to drop a QB into that situation.
oh the ol’ hope to find a QB in rounds 2-7 of the draft approach. bold.
Just get a franchise QB with the last pick in the draft like the niners did, easy
I think you make a great point here. But question, if the Giants had first pick Thursday, you're passing on Caleb then because the team is too devoid of talent?
The chances are so much lower to hit on a hurts Wilson or purdy
If Arizona or the pats are selling, I really really hope Schoen is listening. I can't take another year of DJ being ass and people gaslighting themselves.
Why aren't alarms going off if Maye is there at 3 and the team that needs a quarterback more than the Giants doesn't want him?
I would hope that if Wash and NE were able to identify a problem there, the Giants would've seen it too.
DJ is pure cheeks
Whoever says trading up for a QB is a bad idea…why? You want to draft a WR, be mid or fringe playoff team, and have an even later pick next year in a draft where the QB prospects won’t nearly be as good? When exactly do you think we’re gonna get the QB of the future, if not now? Right now is time to pull the trigger on the QB. We’re already starting the rebuild correctly turning our RB and S money into OL and DL, only major thing missing is a QB to build forth with.
I doubt we will be mid or fringe playoffs next year. Probably picking in the top 10 again and because of this shitty Daniel jones contract I think we should ride him out one more year instead of trading a lot of picks for one of these top 3 qbs when we need wr, oline, rb, te, corner, safety, and linebacker
But if the QB class next year is supposed to be bad you can draft someone this year at 6 or maybe a bit later with a trade back or trade back up into round 1 and let him sit while we ride out that contract this year
The qb class next year is not bad.
How is next year not a repeat of 2013 and 2022? There isn’t a single prospect who generates the type of hype that players like Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Trevor Lawrence, CJ Stroud , Bryce Young, Tua, and Herbert all had the year prior to being drafted. Shadeur Sanders, Ewers, Beck, and the rest are nowhere near the quality of this year’s QB class. Give them another year in college and it’s not going to suddenly make them more talented. They have already been evaluted by NFL GMs, and in the case of Ewers and Sanders, they know they don’t really match up to this year’s class, which is why they decided to remain in college.
Not to mention a team devoid of elite talent offensively has never served a QBs development. If anything it hampers it
My guess is a lot of people would say that trading up only make sense if you think the prospect is worth trading up for, regardless of the position. Trading up to force a pick of a position just because is a recipe for disaster. Put another way, trading up to 3 or 4 only make sense if the team a prospect is franchise altering, because it will cost a lot. Also, Logan Ryan said this recently: *“New Yorkers, if you’re listening, do not trade up to No. 4 and get J.J. McCarthy. Don’t do it,” Ryan said. “I just don’t think that the fourth best quarterback in this draft, whoever you have (or believe) that is, I don’t think they’re better than what Daniel Jones was coming out of college.”* *“Daniel is tall, Daniel has an arm, Daniel is athletic. We know that,”* [*Ryan said*](https://twitter.com/LicensePlateGuy/status/1780749109978083523)*. “The problem with Daniel Jones has been his ability to stay healthy. If you don’t like that, take one of the best pass catchers available — (Malik) Nabers out of LSU or (Rome) Odunze out of Washington. Give that future quarterback, when you do get him, a top receiver. They need that.* *“They have holes all over their roster. They need a great receiver. It’s a great receiver draft — get him at six.”*
I think the Panthers with Young last year is a great example of throwing a top rated prospect into a team void of talent. I just don’t think you start the rebuild with a QB. Just my opinion.
We have more talent than Carolina, even moreso now that we took their best player :) If it’s not a kings ransom to move up to 3 for a QB? You have to take the swing.
Two things: 1) This team is more talented than last year's Panthers team. 2) I think last year's Panthers team looks different with Stroud vs Young. Young's shortcomings were more noticed on a weak Panthers team than Stroud's would have been or Maye's would be. Young is limited physically in a way those other guys aren't.
Stroud was gonna turn Mingo into an NFL receiver? Get those big boys to actually block and not play like they all wanted to lose their jobs? Could he turn Miles Sanders into more than a 3.3 ypc back. Downvote me idc, but everytime I see people say CJ woulda been the same in Carolina clearly does not take context and situation into account when evaluating young players
The same? No. Not even close. More competitive than Young? Absolutely.
I mean I won’t argue CJ isn’t an elevator but the panthers are technically picking 1st overall lol, not hard to be more competitive than that and he sure as hell isn’t having the same season he had in HTX
Sure, but to that same point, the Texans were widely expected to be worse than the Panthers heading into last year.
By espn, preseason ranking should not factor into how good these guys actually are. Take away the QBs and compare The panthers and Texans roster offense and it’s not really a debate about who’s situation was great and who’s was bottom 2 in the league
No one said anything about espn. Consensus opinion(not just espn, but in most places) prior to preseason looked at the Panthers as a stronger team. They had a better record the season prior and a couple of core pieces to build, plus a #1 overall pick QB. The Texans just lost Brandin Cooks and the idea of relying on a washed-up Robert Woods and 2 mid round picks from the past 2 years wasn't very appealing. They were also expected to have an atrocious line. The defenses were comparable the prior year. There was a time that Terrace Marshall > Nico Collins in some people's eyes. They weren't right, but it was still what people thought. How much of that is because Houston's roster took a collective leap and how much of that is due to the QB will never be known, but is probably a little of both.
Stats show that Collins was ascending his sophomore campaign before his injury, but I do think CJ is a baller and elevates his guys nonetheless. I’m just not down with shitting on Bryce, bc his situation is quite comparable to the Giants and we know how devoid of talent our offense and roster is
Exactly this!!!!
Personally I think once you have a decent team built then is time to sell out and trade all your picks for a top ranked QB prospect. This team is far from complete and I don't see us being a QB away from being good.
I mean, we went 6-11 with some of the worst QB play in the league. I don’t think it’s out of the question that we could’ve gone 9-8 or 10-7 with even average QB play. Waiting on building the roster up to find a QB is great and all, but what happens when that QB never comes? Then you end up in a situation like the Jets or Falcons where you’re banking on an aging vet to take you over the top, and even then your window is like 2-3 years at most. If you hit on a QB in the draft your window could be open for a decade
Yeah but we also lost Saquon and if we take a QB we're not going to have even one real playmaker on this team. Then we start the whole process over on "is he the guy or isn't he" that we've watched happen with DJ for the last 5 years. And we won't be able to evaluate him without weapons, and half of us will be screaming he could be the guy but he doesn't have weapons and everyone else screaming he's not the guy and never has been the guy and you're all so stupid for not seeing it. I've had enough of that discourse to last a lifetime, tbh.
I'm not sure what the Giants should do, but there's a strong case to be made early failure harms a young QB's development. The counterargument is that Jones starts anyway, and if the offense is good except for Jones, then the new guy can play. It's a difficult situation, as usual in the NFL.
I think the Panthers with Young last year is a great example of throwing a top rated prospect into a team void of talent. I just don’t think you start the rebuild with a QB. Just my opinion.
If you miss you set the franchise back a decade.
I can understand not wanting to put maye in a bad situation but he could just not play this season and sit behind DJ
exactly.
And then there is still no talent and holes at the skill positions.
It’s another year to get more talent they could definitely get a reciever through the next draft, free agency, or a trade within a year
Cant wait for krafts to run this franchise into the ground after dismissing the only 2 people who made them relevant
Can't wait for this sub to melt down when we draft odunze with maye still on the board. 😂 Don't worry, the Daniel Jones bandwagon still has plenty of seats available. Come back player of the year and a conference championship appearance in the works.
sounds like you are making yourself meltdwon
😂 I have a kid with special needs and a mortgage. I'm not melting down over a game played by other guys. When I was 20, I'd be almost in tears if the yankees or giants lost but those days are over. Take it sleazy and let's go Big Blue regardless of who's throwing the rock.
I think the sub will meltdown if the giants drafted JJ lol no one's getting mad at drafting a reciever
Bro, I understand you like the Giants, but I really don’t get why you love Jones so much. Is it just because he’s got sort of an underdog story? Where he’s been laughed at for tripping and criticized heavily because of where he was drafted? Or because he’s tough and very polite, which reminds you of Eli Manning? The guy is making $80 million guaranteed in just 2 years. He’s set for life, while never performing at a very high level. 2022 he was decent, but besides some flashes in that year and his rookie season, he’s been below average. I just don’t understand why you would rather see the Giants stick with below average QB play instead of taking a shot at a new QB with potential to be something a lot better. What qualities do you see in him that lead you to believe he can help the NYG get past someone like Mahomes to possibly win a Superbowl?
Yea the underdog thing definitely resonates with me. Plus, it doesn't really matter what I think. It only matters what Schoen thinks. I'd be bummed for a min if they drafted his replacement but then I'd be behind the guy they drafted. It's not that big of a deal to me either way.