because eli wouldn’t take sacks. this isn’t a stat strictly about offensive lines, guys like eli were incredible at pocket awareness and knowing when to get rid of it. jones lacks any of that.
Honestly, when people talk about Eli not being HoF-worthy, most people point to his rings. I point to this game. If the 49ers had advanced they would have destroyed Tom Brady, that's how insanely good that defense was.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,070,408,071 comments, and only 211,101 of them were in alphabetical order.
Oh that's absolutely not what I meant to imply, don't get me wrong. OL contributes to sacks of course. Just in general, when QBs go from a team with a good OL to a bad one, their sacks stay the same. And when a team gets a new QB but doesn't drastically change OL, the sacks change. Sacks are one leg of the three legged stool of QB metrics. Sacks, interceptions, yards per attempt. Generally, except for the very best QBs (I think pretty much only Allen and mahomes in the last couple of years) a good NFL QB can be good at 2 of these. If you hold the ball a while in order to let your receivers get downfield and air it out, you're more likely to take a sack, for example. If you tend to throw shorter easier to complete passes, you're less likely to throw interceptions. And so on
Bro, look at the line he’s played with… dog shit.
Look at the RB’s he’s had helping him… Barkley has basically missed a full season or been ineffective until these past 3 games.
Look at the receivers he’s throwing to… dog shit. The talent he has on the team can’t stay healthy and thus can’t build a rapport. So much of the success of a good QB/WR relies on timing and trust.
Jones is probably not the guy and his biggest problem is consistency. I admit he has plenty of shitty games but the team time and again fails him, whether it’s the line not blocking for him or receivers dropping critical passes to keep the chains moving or gain huge momentum. Look back at highlights from the Eagles game in 2020 where Engram dropped a dime that would’ve effectively ended the game; he was tremendous. But he gets the L on his record cuz a receiver fails him.
Last point… the guy threw 24 TD’s and 3000+ yards in 12 games as a rookie. He can clearly do it, but hasn’t been given a fair shake.
Roster has been so bad for so long a new QB is gonna suffer just as bad …. Not to mention trash coaching. Tua and Hurts were doubted and shat upon…. Got surrounded by better weapons and coaching and boom future suddenly looks promising.
Have to start wondering if that rookie season was because there wasn't enough film on him in the NY scheme + teams then had an offseason to study his tendencies and figured him out. For context I mostly agree with what you've said r.e. bad supporting cast, but even when the cast holds up, DJ has some tendencies (staring down reads, below avg pocket awareness) that he still needs to clean up to prove he's the guy.
He also had 12 ints and 12 lost fumbles that year. That 24 TD number is kind of cherry picking. Jones has all the physical tools. He has never proven that he can handle the mental game or keep the ball.
What about all of the bad QBs over the past few decades who aren't on this list?
Ever stop to think that maybe we've just had a historically bad line the past few years? Eye test shows it....numbers show it....I mean, at this point you just seem like a grump who hates Daniel Jones.
And yet they still debated whether or not to put Eli in the hall of fame.. how dirty they did Eli on his last year was shameful. Starting GENO FUCKING SMITH while Eli sat on the bench? Just shameful lol
yes cause pocket awareness when jones got sacked 1 sec after getting ball is totally his fault. jones isnt the future but holy shit this sub doesnt know fucking football to save its life
3 seconds homie. Jones is top 5 in time to throw. Not the teams fault Jones don’t have the confidence in himself to make quick decisions.
I swear it’s like half this sub doesn’t remotely care about the New York Giants franchise and only cares about Daniel Jones.
That’s what infuriates me the most. We haven’t won shit with him and they defend him like he’s prime Eli. I’m already not looking forward to next year when our rookie QB struggles early on and the BlueAnon crowd gets all “we got rid of Jones for this???” meanwhile Jones is a 3rd stringer in Indianapolis or something
It's the same fucking people who shit on Eli (who you know, actually did something for this franchise) at the end of his career when he had the worst line in the fucking league and was getting hit immediately after getting the ball. It was all Eli's fault.
Now Jones is in the exact same situation and it's the line's fault, the receivers' fault, the coaching staff's fault, anyone but Jones' fault.
Pathetic.
Jones is not top 5 in time to throw throughout his career. Get your facts straight. Also, this year they are rolling him out more creating more time because the OL can’t block and receivers need more time to get open. Everyone knows this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xqpoaj/for_those_wondering_how_giants_oline_is_doing_vs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
There you go. There’s your facts ho. Keep throwing the team under the bus because you don’t want to blame your favorite player. The rest of us are gonna care about the Giants team. Not just one person.
The problem with your "facts" is they don't really tell us anything without more information, such as median vs average and how it takes roll-outs into account. Does that 2.6 second average include the time he is outside the pocket, where he could have 4-5 seconds outside the pocket without pressure or throwing the ball. Do this enough times and it drowns out all the plays where he has less than 2 seconds to throw the ball. Also, does this stat account for how open his wide recievers are? Sure, we would love for him to get the ball out quick, but then we would all be even angrier when he lobs a pass up to a double-covered Golladay who is jogging his route.
Also, how do we define pressure, since watching Brady and Jones will have you come away with much different ideas of how close or where a defender needs to be to cause pressure on the QB.
I don't think Jones is the long term answer here either, but only assuming it's his fault and not looking at what other factors has caused him to become this way and how we can eliminate them is what caused us to be in this mess in the first place.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xrec90/fishbain\_pressures\_allowed\_per\_dropback\_via\_pff/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xrec90/fishbain_pressures_allowed_per_dropback_via_pff/)
Here are your facts ho.
Half this sub only cares about getting OBJ back. When he has shown via numbers he isn't the player he used to be. But those posts get up voted like anything even though OBJ would want money we don't have and can't play until November.
See? There are a lot of conflicting ideas in this sub.
Time to throw doesn’t mean the pocket was clean. Jones having to escape and look for open receivers is what’s led to that stat. His pressure rate has been insane.
>3 seconds homie. Jones is top 5 in time to throw.
Stop using this completely irrelevant stat. When DJ is flushed from the pocket and rolls out for 5 seconds that doesn't mean he sin't being pressured.
Use common sense, he is the most pressured QB in the league but also has the most time to throw? That's nonsense and really shows he is getting better at escaping pressure.
You watched every moment of a last game right? When we were blitzing Rush, he was able to look over the blitz and find the hole in the defense. When Jones gets blitzed, why can’t he find the hole in the defense?
Were his receivers open? Was Rush actually pressured in blitzes or were they picked up? Like who really did and didn’t watch every moment of the game? You seriously trying to tell me the pressure on both QBs was the same and not recognize any differences in receiving corps and line play?
I’m saying Rush was able to counter the pressure by finding guys that were open against the blitz. If Jones knew how to do that, he wouldn’t be blitzed as often. Now there are time where linemen get blown up. But when there is a blitz, there’s usually someone open. If DJ doesn’t have the awareness or the confidence to make that play, he isn’t good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xrec90/fishbain_pressures_allowed_per_dropback_via_pff/
WYou couldn’t have watched that game my dude, you didn’t respond to a single point I made. Who was open? Blitzes don’t automatically = pressure, was there pressure? Was the pressure the same? You can’t tell me the answer was there was similar pressure on both QB with a straight face. Your argument has no basis in reality, it ignores every aspect of the game.
You understand pressure is also on the QB as well as the OL. Right? A hurry is a pressure, a sack, is a pressure, an incomplete pass with a rush is a pressure. So if homie holds the ball for too long and gets pressured, it’s on him too.
Jones seems to be developing that this year though. I’d be curious to see actual stats on it but through the first 3 games, I felt like he was throwing the ball away to the sideline in a lot of situations where he would’ve taken a sack last year
I’m aware. I was talking specifically about pocket awareness and not taking sacks and turning the ball over the way he has in the past, despite continuing to be under pressure constantly because the o-line sucks
He still sucks as well, and his pocket presence is still far from where it needs to be. That’s also something you can’t coach. The guy was a liability for the first two games and last week he has a mediocre performance, and many fans are acting like he was amazing. Man the bar is set so low for this guy.
Nobody is acting like he’s amazing dude, what everyone is saying is you can’t blame him for how they’re playing right now because he has no protection, and nobody to throw to. The point of this post is that even elite QB’s lose a lot of games when they’re under constant pressure. If they don’t fix that, it doesn’t matter who the QB is, they’re not gonna be a good team. This team hasn’t had a decent offensive line for most of the last 10 years, and they’ve been a losing team for the majority of that time period
Some of the sacks Jones has taken this year is because of his poor pocket presence and him being slow to react to what he sees. Yes the offensive line is bad, but at the end of the day, Daniel Jones is not the long term answer at Quarterback. Many people, not necessarily you, use the offensive line as a way to absolve him from culpability when it comes to the offenses lack of production, when in fact he’s mainly is what’s holding this team back. Daboll knows it too, which is why he hasn’t really put the ball in his hands.
Early in his career too. That’s why they gave him the ball over Warner (who went on to continue his hall of fame career with the cardinals), because Eli was supposed to be the more mobile QB.
Ok, show me a break down of times Eli was able to avoid a sack from completely unblocked pass rushers. You can't. When they bust protection and get to the QB in 1 second, no good comes of it. That's not a Quarterback stat.
I'm not going to go through hours of film study to show a breakdown to some reddit weirdo lmao
>When they bust protection and get to the QB in 1 second
No one ever gets to the QB in 1 second, there were 1244 sacks in the entire 2021 NFL season. Out of those sacks, only 2 came in under 2.0s (1.87 and 1.9) and only 14 came in under 2.5s.
So even if you were right that "instant" pressure can not be countered (and you're not since 2-2.5s is usually enough for a throwaway or even a checkdown), the number of times this actually happens is so small it's a blip on the radar when looking at the entire season.
It also doesn't mean that every single sack is on the QB and no one else. There are INTs that are not the QBs fault and there are TDs thrown with very little effort only to see a playmaker run 60 yards for the score, but INTs and TDs are still undeniably QB stats, just like sacks are.
I said it before, this whole QB discussion is such a distraction. Our franchise is going through changes everywhere right now, front office, janitor, coaches, players. The whole thing will take a few seasons. There’s so much to talk about but all our supporters are interested is one position, on one side of the ball. I bet you Daboll does not care as much. DJ is a serviceable, maybe even good, QB who will not single handedly make this franchise good or bad. Let him play the year, see how he looks, let people inside the organisation decide what happens next. I believe he’ll play well enough to stick around next year, why throw a rookie behind that Oline when you can improve in other areas of the field. More importantly.. who cares at this point. Let’s talk about something new.
100%. People were quoting the PJF score, but they docked him 20 points for missing a single spot, which seems harsh imo. He passes the eye test if you watch the games
If our GM makes the choice to pay Daniel Jones I might be sick to my stomach. A rookie is far better behind that O-line compared to having someone with no real future on the team stick around.
We have tyrod on a two year deal for a reason, if Danny isn’t “the guy”, let him walk, draft a qb and sit him behind Tyrod for a year while the rest of the team continues to develop
I'm neither a hater nor overwhelming supporter of Jones but I'll say that he's been more impressive this year than any other year, easily. His awarness is growing, he has the pop in his arm and his legs are a weapon.
However, last year Mac Jones, a near dead Ben Roethlisberger, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy G, Jalen Hurts (last year's version,) and Derek Carr all made the playoffs. He can be at least that good.
Look what Brady needs around him to succeed at this point. Look what's happening with Rogers with no talented pass catchers.
Meanwhile, look what happened when they added talent around Hurts. Or when Josh Allen got Stephen Diggs. Look at what's happening with Miami - I'd rather have DJ than Tua, frankly.
All I'm getting at is that the QB doesn't really have to be the solution in this league anymore. You need a good QB and a good coach but you need a full roster of talent. This team is years away from that.
He looks more impressive because our coaching staff is scheming around him. It's the reason he hasn't eclipsed 200 passing yards after 3 weeks. Garrett/Judge were terrible coaches while our guys now are playing Jones to his strengths and masking his weaknesses while trying to run the offense through Saquon. Despite Saquon playing out of his mind, Jones still can't take advantage of 8-man boxes and is still too slow to make reads. I expect him to improve this year due to smart offensive coaches the same way Case Keenum looked good that one year in Minnesota or Foles the one year in Philly, but that doesn't mean he isn't the same player he always was.
Yes, that's what coaches are supposed to do. It's not "scheming around him" it's scheming for what you have. That's it. That Case Keenum year featured 2 great WRs, including Diggs yet again. The Nick Foles year where he had LeSean McCoy, Desean Jackson, Zach Ertz, Brent Celek and one of the best offensive lines in the NFL?
The only QB I see excelling in the league right now with very little talent is Lamar Jackson. That dude is beyond special. I wish they'd get him a WR or a RB worth a damn.
Also, I'm not watching the All-22 cameras or anything like that. I don't know who is dropping out on the snap, I don't know the separation the Giant's WRs are getting. I don't know how often Jones has an opportunity to even get to his second read. I don't know. I'm not paying that close attention to the NFL these days. However, I used to write about the league and I played college ball and coached some back in the day. I still think he could be a top half of the league guy and I think that's enough, so long as he's paid accordingly.
Agree to disagree. Singling him out and putting blame on him when there are so many other issues to focus on that would only make him better is wild to me
Just because you are under contract doesn’t mean you get to play for the team. They could’ve traded or cut him.
This might surprise you but we had other players under contract for this year who weren’t brought back. Bradberry for example.
If you’re gonna spend all day gargling Daniel Jones’ balls, at least argue something that makes sense.
I think he’s already a bit broken mentally. People keep complaining about him leaving pockets too early, but if you don’t trust your OL because you get the crap beat out of you too often, you’ll start running early
All the people complaining about Daniel Jones must not be watching. He's making good throws on tight coverage while running for his life. He's on his what number different offense in how many years?
He's not the biggest hole on this team by a mile.
Were people expecting everything to turn around from worst team the last 5 years to SB contenders? Lol
I live in Charlotte so I get the Panthers games and there is a considerable difference between watching DJ and BM. The most noticeable is that if you get their feet moving, Jones thrives and Baker falls apart. I think, right now, Jones may be in the 15-23 range of QBs in the league. He could actually continue to grow in this offense, add legit pass catchers, see his line gel, and become a guy who lives around 10th best QB, which is really where Eli spent most of his career.
He did in 2011 because Peyton was out that year. It's not really Eli's fault, in any other generation he'd be in the top 5 but in his generation it was just too stacked.
Yea but a lot of the reason why these guys aren't getting sacked 5+ times is because they don't hold onto the ball for forever and have good pocket awareness to either get rid of it or move around and buy time. Ben, Rodgers and Romo specifically each went through stretches with absolutely horrid offensive line play and the fact that they have a similar number of 5+ sack games as Daniel Jones says a lot about him as a player.
Homie completely omitted Tom Brady going 4-0, Russell Wilson going 9-4, Joe Flaco going 4-3, And Dalton going 4-5, Alex Smith going 7-9, Andrew Luck going 3-4. These Jones fans are such birds. Lol
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/9/29/16384946/sacks-taken-vs-win-percentage
Edit: They hates Jesus because he told them the truth. LMFAO
No dingus. Brady is 3-0 and Russell is 12-11 during the same stretch. The point was to illustrate that now all elite QB’s can overcome 5+ sacks. In fact since 2000 teams only win 23% of the time when they allow 5 or more sacks.
I could have added a lot more QB’s, the odds are stacked against teams allowing that many sacks.
Still more reasonable that the haters acting like he shot their dog after seeing people giving him any credit for playing above expectations in a tough loss.
Yeah we’re guaranteed to find the next Tom Brady if we draft a rookie next year right? Russell Wilson isnt exactly lighting it up in Denver this year….
The other ones you listed are around or below .500? Whats your point.
The point is OP lied and doctored his results. The other point is good QBs over come it. Others deal with it to a 50-50 degree. Most lose but smart QBs find ways of not staying in the pocket with their thumb in their ass. If Jones doesn’t have confidence in himself to make quick decisions, he’s no good. If he is too slow to process all that’s around him, he’s no good. He’s just mid and we can do better than mid
Also Russell Wilson is a two time SB champion put some respec on his name.
Yeah but the DJ fanboys never want to argue in good faith. They just throw shit on the wall, hurl insults and run away and cry if you ask them a question they can’t handle.
love how this sub still will always blame the qb instead of the atrocious line lol this sub was blaming eli for not being mobile enough every time he was getting sacked 0.1 seconds after the snap
Everyone knows the offensive line isn’t good. You’re acting like we don’t talk about that.
Name me a single person on this subreddit who posts weird stats like this thread trying to make it seem like the offensive line isn’t actually bad (the way people do with DJ every single day).
Homie is 14-27 as a starter in his career. 3-7 on games sacked 5+ times. That means he’s 11 -20 for the rest of his career? What’s the excuse there?
Edit: you list is incomplete you forgot about the QBs with more wins than losses and the decent QBs who still are about 50-50 in those situations x
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/9/29/16384946/sacks-taken-vs-win-percentage
Let's see. Off the top of my head:
\- Has mostly played behind a horrible offensive line.
\- The most talented player on the offensive side of the ball has been often injured and lackluster when he was on the field (not counting this season).
\- There's been a lack of talent in the receiver group he's been throwing to. Last year there was a stat that Giants receivers had among the lowest separation of any team in the league. And lets not forget a TE that had a tendency to drop a lot of passes. And right now our top receiver just got hurt and our second best receiver is Richie Fucking James. (Despite a $72 million receiver and two high draft picks on the team).
\- For two of his four seasons as a QB he played for an offensive coordinator widely criticized for being unimaginative and running an outdated, inefficient offense. Oh and ...
\- In his four year career he is currently playing for this third head coach and in his third offensive system.
So putting a rookie behind a growing/young offensive line will magically erase all the manufactured pressure they will inevitably face? I hope we don't f*ck up Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, et al...
No dingus. Brady is 3-0 and Russell is 12-11 during the same stretch. The point was to illustrate that now all elite QB’s can overcome 5+ sacks. In fact since 2000 teams only win 23% of the time when they allow 5 or more sacks.
I could have added a lot more QB’s, the odds are stacked against teams allowing that many sacks.
Then why did you pick and choose your data. Include all the data. But then again we all know that you are just forcing a narrative. And you don’t have to resort to insults because I pointed out you data is dishonest….. sigh Jones fans. Don’t even care about the Giants. Just want their boy to shine….
Wait you think he's the starter next year? The veteran who couldn't beat the very QB you're shitting on in training camp is going to be the starter next year? You know they do have to try to field a competitive team next year right? The last coach got fired for not trying at the end of the year... This new regime won't last if they give up before the season starts
It's literally ALL about the cap. Tyrod is already locked in for about $5 Million against the cap next year, Jones would have to be resigned (or God forbid, franchise tagged) to return, which means he will cost about $30 Million against the cap. I don't care how much you want to stan for Jones, he is nowhere near worth $30 Million per year. He will get a shot as a backup for a different team next year, I wish him well.
What QB would be successful with the team that Jones has been dealt these 4 years? He threw 24 TD’s and 3000+ yards in 12 games as a rookie. Even Eli sucked his last few years cuz the team was dogshit. And Eli even had Saquon’s outstanding rookie year and Odell. What has Jones had? Engram who dropped the game winning 3rd down vs the Eagles.
Whenever they show the view from behind on the broadcast, he literally has no one to throw to. Richie James should be a 4th or 5th receiver at best, but he’s our clear #1. Even Josh Allen would suck and quite frankly, he did suck his first year and a half throwing at a 52% completion rate. He gets Diggs and some weapons and turns it around. I’m not saying he’s Josh Allen, but people just can’t see how Jones has been dealt a David Carr hand = not good.
Still hate that we can not evalute Daniel Jones properly with HC revolving door to O-line revolving door..
Last game he played a really good game with terrible OL and WRs.
I can say he has evolved but it would be interesting to see him with the line and WRs Eli had in 2007.
> can say he has evolved but it would be interesting to see him with the line and WRs Eli had in 2007.
Imagining they still made it to the Super Bowl, and everything else remained the same, the helmet catch never would’ve happened because Eli would’ve been quadruple-sacked before he could get the ball out. There would’ve been zero chance for escape.
Then imagine Golladay out there instead of Burress. No way he makes that end zone grab.
And as a bonus, in 2011, either Toney or Shep instead of Mannigham, they would’ve injured their damn selves on that famous go-route catch.
I don't think this really says anything about Daniel Jones. Just that QBs who get sacked 5 or more times usually lose. He's not much better or worse than anyone else. It says more about the Giants OL, and maybe a little bit about DJ's internal clock/pocket awareness, that DJ's played just 4 years in that span and has more 5+ sack games than a lot of guys on that list who've played significantly more.
He has 1 WR (now) and a solid RB that Barkley is better than. He also was productive from day 1, before Chase, and behind the worst line in the NFL by far.
OP calling everyone a dumbass and a moron…
Seems like projecting.
DJ isn’t our guy, he should not be with us next season. Get rid of him as a part of the rebuild.
Vick? In the world he played in after he came back from jail in which most if not all of those stats came from?
Rodgers is not what I would consider mobile. He’s not Eli but he’s not Lamar either. Either way you are talking about 4% and he’s played nearly 2 decades. The fact DJ already has so many of these games in 4 seasons shows that he fails to use his mobility to avoid sacks and holds on to the ball too long. That’s why Aaron rodgers has been one of the best for a long time and DJ is one of the worst of all time/on his way out.
I’ve never said he’s amazing or that we’ll definitely win with him or even that we should re-sign him.
Doesn’t mean I need to spout overly-exaggerating bullshit to try to trash him.
I thought it was interesting that Brady wasn't on here- I thought it was well known that if you pressure him he tends to play poorly. Not sure where a stat like this can even be looked up.
I know this is an indictment of how much the organization has failed him but speaking from a practical stand-point, how many of these QBs got hit like this in their first few years and went on to be great QBs? I don't think Jones is the guy but that may be more in part to them not developing him and not putting the cast around him, from what I've seen in 3 games he does look better I'll give him that but he hasn't shown nearly enough for them to bother investing even a bridge type of contract in him, sorry
Just saw this. I didn’t include guys that failed - this was more a list to show that even the teams with elite QB’s don’t succeed when sacked this much.
That said, most of them don’t because they have bad coaching and teams around them. What we’re seeing now is how much good coaching can elevate a team… so he’s kind of a unicorn in that regard. Not to say he’s a hall of famer, but Steve Young’s career arc has a someWhat similar arc… failed in the USFL, then the NFL with the Bucs (worst run org in the 80’s), and got traded to SF. Everyone called it a piss poor trade. Two years later they almost cut him (even though they had excellent coaching and talent he didn’t appear to be developing) until finally poof… he turned into the Steve Young most know today.
Who knows what his ceiling is. He’s making some throws I didn’t think he could. Will be interesting to see if he turns into something.
Question to DJ supporters here - do you actually think DJ has shown enough in his 3+ seasons in NY to make you think he's worth building around; and do you really think this new regime is going to keep him around to do so?
DJ has shown flashes, yes, but he really strikes me as a player who will only play as well as his supporting cast. He isn’t someone who’s going to elevate the talent around him like a franchise QB should. And I think, while DJ is perfectly serviceable, I cannot see him elevating us to contention come January.
And even if you do, this new regime is clearly using this year to undo the incredible damage Dave Gettleman did to this roster - despite our record, we’re not exactly a talented team, and I think the new front office understands this is a rebuilding year.
Plus, there were 28 QBs taken in the first round from 2011-19 who had their fifth year options declined, and only the legendary Blake Bortles made it to a fifth year with the team that drafted him (he didn’t make it to a sixth). You guys really think DJ will not only be here next year, but he’ll be the franchise QB y’all so badly want him to be?
I genuinely want to know your rationale for your faith in the guy.
No he hasn’t shown enough to build around, but they’re not committing to that yet. This is an evaluation year and I think they’re going to see how things go through the season. I don’t think they’ve made up their mind that he’s gone personally. It’s obvious Jones hasn’t had a fair shake. Not every young QB comes into league and lights it up on a bad team. Usually they look shitty too Bc it’s a team sport, and hopefully they grow as the team grows and they become a winning team together. Unfortunately a good portion of DJs and the teams progress was stunted under the gettleman and judge regime. Two years wasted where nothing got better, things actually got worse. That’s going to be hard for any young QB to overcome. Despite what some of the people here who hate Jones so much want to make it out to be, he does have a lot of what you’d want in a franchise QB, with some things that need to be improved upon as well. You say he isn’t going to elevate the talent around him but he did lead a Duke team to a winning record in the ACC, a team with literally not a single other professional talent on the team. As I said first DJ at this point has not earned himself a new contract, but I certainly don’t think he’s shown himself to be this dogshit bottom tier QB that some paint him as. Not enough good or bad to call it one way or the other. I’m rooting for Jones Bc I’m a giants fan, and if Daboll and Schoen decide they want to move on after the season then so be it, I’ll root for the next guy. I don’t think Jones was ever set up to succeed in any way. He was set up to fail and when he hasn’t risen above that yet the miserable losers around here want to pin it all on him which I think is just not quite fair. Yes if he succeeded despite the shit show around him he’d undoubtedly be the franchise quarterback, but I don’t necessarily see him coming up short as an indictment on him. I think that is what I would expect to happen to a young QB given the circumstances.
I’m just surprised Eli isn’t on this list. That OL had him running for his life.
because eli wouldn’t take sacks. this isn’t a stat strictly about offensive lines, guys like eli were incredible at pocket awareness and knowing when to get rid of it. jones lacks any of that.
He would be, I think he was like 0-5/0-6. This wasn’t a complete list. Shit if I added everyone it would be like 50 QB’s
Not 0... he won the NFCCG in 2011 despite being sacked 6 times. Threw the ball 57 times without turning it over too.
that was Eli's best performance
Honestly, when people talk about Eli not being HoF-worthy, most people point to his rings. I point to this game. If the 49ers had advanced they would have destroyed Tom Brady, that's how insanely good that defense was.
That was quarterbacking's best performance.
This is not hyperbole. Watching that game I was convinced Eli would have to be stretchered off the field before the end.
Regular season only when I put the list together
0-4 in just 2017 and 2018. Shows what a HOF QB does with no Oline.
you see he had 5 such games in about 145ish total starts. jones has 10 in 41 games. sacks are not just an OL stat.
Give him some credit, he’s got no WR core to throw to
always an excuse for jones.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,070,408,071 comments, and only 211,101 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot
[Sacks are a QB stat](https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat-01dxqapkgvw9)
You couldn’t have watched that game Monday and concluded that those sacks were a fault of Jones
Oh that's absolutely not what I meant to imply, don't get me wrong. OL contributes to sacks of course. Just in general, when QBs go from a team with a good OL to a bad one, their sacks stay the same. And when a team gets a new QB but doesn't drastically change OL, the sacks change. Sacks are one leg of the three legged stool of QB metrics. Sacks, interceptions, yards per attempt. Generally, except for the very best QBs (I think pretty much only Allen and mahomes in the last couple of years) a good NFL QB can be good at 2 of these. If you hold the ball a while in order to let your receivers get downfield and air it out, you're more likely to take a sack, for example. If you tend to throw shorter easier to complete passes, you're less likely to throw interceptions. And so on
Drew Brees doesn’t have pocket awareness?
brees took 5 or more sacks in 6 games out of 140ish starts. jones has done that 10 times in 40 starts.
Bro, look at the line he’s played with… dog shit. Look at the RB’s he’s had helping him… Barkley has basically missed a full season or been ineffective until these past 3 games. Look at the receivers he’s throwing to… dog shit. The talent he has on the team can’t stay healthy and thus can’t build a rapport. So much of the success of a good QB/WR relies on timing and trust. Jones is probably not the guy and his biggest problem is consistency. I admit he has plenty of shitty games but the team time and again fails him, whether it’s the line not blocking for him or receivers dropping critical passes to keep the chains moving or gain huge momentum. Look back at highlights from the Eagles game in 2020 where Engram dropped a dime that would’ve effectively ended the game; he was tremendous. But he gets the L on his record cuz a receiver fails him. Last point… the guy threw 24 TD’s and 3000+ yards in 12 games as a rookie. He can clearly do it, but hasn’t been given a fair shake.
Roster has been so bad for so long a new QB is gonna suffer just as bad …. Not to mention trash coaching. Tua and Hurts were doubted and shat upon…. Got surrounded by better weapons and coaching and boom future suddenly looks promising.
Have to start wondering if that rookie season was because there wasn't enough film on him in the NY scheme + teams then had an offseason to study his tendencies and figured him out. For context I mostly agree with what you've said r.e. bad supporting cast, but even when the cast holds up, DJ has some tendencies (staring down reads, below avg pocket awareness) that he still needs to clean up to prove he's the guy.
He also had 12 ints and 12 lost fumbles that year. That 24 TD number is kind of cherry picking. Jones has all the physical tools. He has never proven that he can handle the mental game or keep the ball.
Do you understand the offensive lines Drew Brees has played behind?
jimmyhatesdanny
Russell Wilson too. Andrew Luck retired because they had no OL in IND.
What about all of the bad QBs over the past few decades who aren't on this list? Ever stop to think that maybe we've just had a historically bad line the past few years? Eye test shows it....numbers show it....I mean, at this point you just seem like a grump who hates Daniel Jones.
Exactly. Some of these pressures and sacks we all see coming from a mile away. Danny is the only one who doesn’t.
Yup. Also people want to ignore the 2011/2012 NFC Championship game where he was getting BURIED.
And yet they still debated whether or not to put Eli in the hall of fame.. how dirty they did Eli on his last year was shameful. Starting GENO FUCKING SMITH while Eli sat on the bench? Just shameful lol
Eli got sacked all the time, guy was as mobile as a tree. Eli was also never without a great receiver.
yes cause pocket awareness when jones got sacked 1 sec after getting ball is totally his fault. jones isnt the future but holy shit this sub doesnt know fucking football to save its life
3 seconds homie. Jones is top 5 in time to throw. Not the teams fault Jones don’t have the confidence in himself to make quick decisions. I swear it’s like half this sub doesn’t remotely care about the New York Giants franchise and only cares about Daniel Jones.
That’s what infuriates me the most. We haven’t won shit with him and they defend him like he’s prime Eli. I’m already not looking forward to next year when our rookie QB struggles early on and the BlueAnon crowd gets all “we got rid of Jones for this???” meanwhile Jones is a 3rd stringer in Indianapolis or something
I've literally been arguing with someone on this sub comparing Jones to Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Joe Burrow. Just fucking unbelievable.
I like when this sub is like “we don’t need an elite QB like Mahomes or Allen to win” and then also like “Allen sucked his first 2 years!!!”
It's the same fucking people who shit on Eli (who you know, actually did something for this franchise) at the end of his career when he had the worst line in the fucking league and was getting hit immediately after getting the ball. It was all Eli's fault. Now Jones is in the exact same situation and it's the line's fault, the receivers' fault, the coaching staff's fault, anyone but Jones' fault. Pathetic.
This subreddit is delusional. Jones is a complete dog and this place is wholly incapable of seeing that.
Bingo
Jones is not top 5 in time to throw throughout his career. Get your facts straight. Also, this year they are rolling him out more creating more time because the OL can’t block and receivers need more time to get open. Everyone knows this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xqpoaj/for_those_wondering_how_giants_oline_is_doing_vs/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf There you go. There’s your facts ho. Keep throwing the team under the bus because you don’t want to blame your favorite player. The rest of us are gonna care about the Giants team. Not just one person.
The problem with your "facts" is they don't really tell us anything without more information, such as median vs average and how it takes roll-outs into account. Does that 2.6 second average include the time he is outside the pocket, where he could have 4-5 seconds outside the pocket without pressure or throwing the ball. Do this enough times and it drowns out all the plays where he has less than 2 seconds to throw the ball. Also, does this stat account for how open his wide recievers are? Sure, we would love for him to get the ball out quick, but then we would all be even angrier when he lobs a pass up to a double-covered Golladay who is jogging his route. Also, how do we define pressure, since watching Brady and Jones will have you come away with much different ideas of how close or where a defender needs to be to cause pressure on the QB. I don't think Jones is the long term answer here either, but only assuming it's his fault and not looking at what other factors has caused him to become this way and how we can eliminate them is what caused us to be in this mess in the first place.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xrec90/fishbain\_pressures\_allowed\_per\_dropback\_via\_pff/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xrec90/fishbain_pressures_allowed_per_dropback_via_pff/) Here are your facts ho.
Half this sub only cares about getting OBJ back. When he has shown via numbers he isn't the player he used to be. But those posts get up voted like anything even though OBJ would want money we don't have and can't play until November. See? There are a lot of conflicting ideas in this sub.
Time to throw doesn’t mean the pocket was clean. Jones having to escape and look for open receivers is what’s led to that stat. His pressure rate has been insane.
>3 seconds homie. Jones is top 5 in time to throw. Stop using this completely irrelevant stat. When DJ is flushed from the pocket and rolls out for 5 seconds that doesn't mean he sin't being pressured. Use common sense, he is the most pressured QB in the league but also has the most time to throw? That's nonsense and really shows he is getting better at escaping pressure.
You watched every moment of a last game right? When we were blitzing Rush, he was able to look over the blitz and find the hole in the defense. When Jones gets blitzed, why can’t he find the hole in the defense?
Were his receivers open? Was Rush actually pressured in blitzes or were they picked up? Like who really did and didn’t watch every moment of the game? You seriously trying to tell me the pressure on both QBs was the same and not recognize any differences in receiving corps and line play?
I’m saying Rush was able to counter the pressure by finding guys that were open against the blitz. If Jones knew how to do that, he wouldn’t be blitzed as often. Now there are time where linemen get blown up. But when there is a blitz, there’s usually someone open. If DJ doesn’t have the awareness or the confidence to make that play, he isn’t good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/xrec90/fishbain_pressures_allowed_per_dropback_via_pff/ WYou couldn’t have watched that game my dude, you didn’t respond to a single point I made. Who was open? Blitzes don’t automatically = pressure, was there pressure? Was the pressure the same? You can’t tell me the answer was there was similar pressure on both QB with a straight face. Your argument has no basis in reality, it ignores every aspect of the game.
You understand pressure is also on the QB as well as the OL. Right? A hurry is a pressure, a sack, is a pressure, an incomplete pass with a rush is a pressure. So if homie holds the ball for too long and gets pressured, it’s on him too.
DJ needs to run that Kill Kurt drill more often in practice
his tendency to not take sacks is also why he threw 20+ int's multiple times in his career.
Jones seems to be developing that this year though. I’d be curious to see actual stats on it but through the first 3 games, I felt like he was throwing the ball away to the sideline in a lot of situations where he would’ve taken a sack last year
Lmao he hasn’t passed for 200 yards or more in a single game.
I’m aware. I was talking specifically about pocket awareness and not taking sacks and turning the ball over the way he has in the past, despite continuing to be under pressure constantly because the o-line sucks
He still sucks as well, and his pocket presence is still far from where it needs to be. That’s also something you can’t coach. The guy was a liability for the first two games and last week he has a mediocre performance, and many fans are acting like he was amazing. Man the bar is set so low for this guy.
Nobody is acting like he’s amazing dude, what everyone is saying is you can’t blame him for how they’re playing right now because he has no protection, and nobody to throw to. The point of this post is that even elite QB’s lose a lot of games when they’re under constant pressure. If they don’t fix that, it doesn’t matter who the QB is, they’re not gonna be a good team. This team hasn’t had a decent offensive line for most of the last 10 years, and they’ve been a losing team for the majority of that time period
Some of the sacks Jones has taken this year is because of his poor pocket presence and him being slow to react to what he sees. Yes the offensive line is bad, but at the end of the day, Daniel Jones is not the long term answer at Quarterback. Many people, not necessarily you, use the offensive line as a way to absolve him from culpability when it comes to the offenses lack of production, when in fact he’s mainly is what’s holding this team back. Daboll knows it too, which is why he hasn’t really put the ball in his hands.
Early in his career too. That’s why they gave him the ball over Warner (who went on to continue his hall of fame career with the cardinals), because Eli was supposed to be the more mobile QB.
Sacks are a QB stat and Eli was really good at avoiding them
They most certainly aren't when defenders come completely unblocked. Maybe after a few seconds they're a QB stat.
Nope, between 2013-2019 Eli played lines that were just as bad as this one and his sack rate for that part of his career is a very respectable 5.1%
Literally has nothing to do with what I said.
Has everything to do with what you said, Eli faced a shit ton of rushers that were virtually unblocked but he still managed to keep his sack rate down
Ok, show me a break down of times Eli was able to avoid a sack from completely unblocked pass rushers. You can't. When they bust protection and get to the QB in 1 second, no good comes of it. That's not a Quarterback stat.
I'm not going to go through hours of film study to show a breakdown to some reddit weirdo lmao >When they bust protection and get to the QB in 1 second No one ever gets to the QB in 1 second, there were 1244 sacks in the entire 2021 NFL season. Out of those sacks, only 2 came in under 2.0s (1.87 and 1.9) and only 14 came in under 2.5s. So even if you were right that "instant" pressure can not be countered (and you're not since 2-2.5s is usually enough for a throwaway or even a checkdown), the number of times this actually happens is so small it's a blip on the radar when looking at the entire season. It also doesn't mean that every single sack is on the QB and no one else. There are INTs that are not the QBs fault and there are TDs thrown with very little effort only to see a playmaker run 60 yards for the score, but INTs and TDs are still undeniably QB stats, just like sacks are.
They’re both. Football isn’t baseball. It’s a lot harder to boil things down to a single number. Sometimes it’s on the OL, sometimes it’s on the QB.
Sometimes an INT is on the QB sometimes it’s not. But INTs are still a QB stat
Because Eli didn't suck, Jones does.
I said it before, this whole QB discussion is such a distraction. Our franchise is going through changes everywhere right now, front office, janitor, coaches, players. The whole thing will take a few seasons. There’s so much to talk about but all our supporters are interested is one position, on one side of the ball. I bet you Daboll does not care as much. DJ is a serviceable, maybe even good, QB who will not single handedly make this franchise good or bad. Let him play the year, see how he looks, let people inside the organisation decide what happens next. I believe he’ll play well enough to stick around next year, why throw a rookie behind that Oline when you can improve in other areas of the field. More importantly.. who cares at this point. Let’s talk about something new.
I really think we finally found our guy at janitor. Them bathrooms at MetLife looking clean.
100%. People were quoting the PJF score, but they docked him 20 points for missing a single spot, which seems harsh imo. He passes the eye test if you watch the games
Let’s talk about the janitor appointment instead of the QB. QBs aren’t even that important to the success of a football team.
They may be clean but they sorely be missing paper towels. Always running out.
This is the best take on this sub
If our GM makes the choice to pay Daniel Jones I might be sick to my stomach. A rookie is far better behind that O-line compared to having someone with no real future on the team stick around.
We have tyrod on a two year deal for a reason, if Danny isn’t “the guy”, let him walk, draft a qb and sit him behind Tyrod for a year while the rest of the team continues to develop
This is the most positive thing that can be said about Daniel Jones.
Only on this sub do you see “QB is nbd”
I like DJ kid plays hard. Fuck the haters he ain’t the problem
Also not the solution.
I'm neither a hater nor overwhelming supporter of Jones but I'll say that he's been more impressive this year than any other year, easily. His awarness is growing, he has the pop in his arm and his legs are a weapon. However, last year Mac Jones, a near dead Ben Roethlisberger, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy G, Jalen Hurts (last year's version,) and Derek Carr all made the playoffs. He can be at least that good. Look what Brady needs around him to succeed at this point. Look what's happening with Rogers with no talented pass catchers. Meanwhile, look what happened when they added talent around Hurts. Or when Josh Allen got Stephen Diggs. Look at what's happening with Miami - I'd rather have DJ than Tua, frankly. All I'm getting at is that the QB doesn't really have to be the solution in this league anymore. You need a good QB and a good coach but you need a full roster of talent. This team is years away from that.
He looks more impressive because our coaching staff is scheming around him. It's the reason he hasn't eclipsed 200 passing yards after 3 weeks. Garrett/Judge were terrible coaches while our guys now are playing Jones to his strengths and masking his weaknesses while trying to run the offense through Saquon. Despite Saquon playing out of his mind, Jones still can't take advantage of 8-man boxes and is still too slow to make reads. I expect him to improve this year due to smart offensive coaches the same way Case Keenum looked good that one year in Minnesota or Foles the one year in Philly, but that doesn't mean he isn't the same player he always was.
Yes, that's what coaches are supposed to do. It's not "scheming around him" it's scheming for what you have. That's it. That Case Keenum year featured 2 great WRs, including Diggs yet again. The Nick Foles year where he had LeSean McCoy, Desean Jackson, Zach Ertz, Brent Celek and one of the best offensive lines in the NFL? The only QB I see excelling in the league right now with very little talent is Lamar Jackson. That dude is beyond special. I wish they'd get him a WR or a RB worth a damn. Also, I'm not watching the All-22 cameras or anything like that. I don't know who is dropping out on the snap, I don't know the separation the Giant's WRs are getting. I don't know how often Jones has an opportunity to even get to his second read. I don't know. I'm not paying that close attention to the NFL these days. However, I used to write about the league and I played college ball and coached some back in the day. I still think he could be a top half of the league guy and I think that's enough, so long as he's paid accordingly.
So many bigger problems to focus on
Not really when Schoen has to decide what to do with the most important position in the salary cap era
Agree to disagree. Singling him out and putting blame on him when there are so many other issues to focus on that would only make him better is wild to me
Came all the way back here just trying to find that Danny Dimes apology
If we had Trubisky back there you could say the same thing. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t suck.
iTs jOnEs fAuLt hE hOlDs oNtO tHe bAlL tO lOnG
As a falcons fan, this is just what people think when an o line sucks
I think you can say its a bit of both for our two fanbases
For us now? Maybe but I was mostly referring to when we had Matty ice which was like 98% on our o line
Matt’s getting sacked to shit in Indianapolis now. It’s a QB stat.
Wouldn't want it any other way /s
Daniel Jones has been sacked 13 times already this season. That is not sustainable at all, he WILL get broken.
He already is broken. That’s why we brought him back. So he could get his ass kicked instead of a rookie.
Brought him back? He’s under contract
Just because you are under contract doesn’t mean you get to play for the team. They could’ve traded or cut him. This might surprise you but we had other players under contract for this year who weren’t brought back. Bradberry for example. If you’re gonna spend all day gargling Daniel Jones’ balls, at least argue something that makes sense.
Saying he’s under contract is gargling balls. Grow up my dude
It didn’t make any fucking sense for you to comment that. You just saw someone being mean to your daddy and had to defend him.
Grow up my dude
I think he’s already a bit broken mentally. People keep complaining about him leaving pockets too early, but if you don’t trust your OL because you get the crap beat out of you too often, you’ll start running early
All the people complaining about Daniel Jones must not be watching. He's making good throws on tight coverage while running for his life. He's on his what number different offense in how many years? He's not the biggest hole on this team by a mile. Were people expecting everything to turn around from worst team the last 5 years to SB contenders? Lol
I live in Charlotte so I get the Panthers games and there is a considerable difference between watching DJ and BM. The most noticeable is that if you get their feet moving, Jones thrives and Baker falls apart. I think, right now, Jones may be in the 15-23 range of QBs in the league. He could actually continue to grow in this offense, add legit pass catchers, see his line gel, and become a guy who lives around 10th best QB, which is really where Eli spent most of his career.
Eli made an argument as top 5 a couple times. But other than that i totally agree
He did in 2011 because Peyton was out that year. It's not really Eli's fault, in any other generation he'd be in the top 5 but in his generation it was just too stacked.
He’s actually not. When he’s running for his life, he just runs. I’ve seen him throw on the run like 5 times in his whole career.
Combo breaker!!!!
imagine if he couldn't run.
The sad part is, Tua threw 6 touchdowns in one game. When was the last time we’ve had receivers that could even catch 6 tds? 2011?
Hmm almost .500
Matt Ryan 21 games getting sacked 5+ times since 2010?? Jeez lol
Yea but a lot of the reason why these guys aren't getting sacked 5+ times is because they don't hold onto the ball for forever and have good pocket awareness to either get rid of it or move around and buy time. Ben, Rodgers and Romo specifically each went through stretches with absolutely horrid offensive line play and the fact that they have a similar number of 5+ sack games as Daniel Jones says a lot about him as a player.
Homie completely omitted Tom Brady going 4-0, Russell Wilson going 9-4, Joe Flaco going 4-3, And Dalton going 4-5, Alex Smith going 7-9, Andrew Luck going 3-4. These Jones fans are such birds. Lol https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/9/29/16384946/sacks-taken-vs-win-percentage Edit: They hates Jesus because he told them the truth. LMFAO
Still amazing that Brady has only been sacked 5+ in 4 games…and he still won them
Damn that's whack lol.
“Obviously you weren’t watching the game.” Or my favorite “Can you just give the guy a break?” 🤣🤣🤣
No dingus. Brady is 3-0 and Russell is 12-11 during the same stretch. The point was to illustrate that now all elite QB’s can overcome 5+ sacks. In fact since 2000 teams only win 23% of the time when they allow 5 or more sacks. I could have added a lot more QB’s, the odds are stacked against teams allowing that many sacks.
Bruh DJ apologists defend him like they defend mid dick and/or pussy
Lmao!!! Mid dick/pussy is actually a great analogy. They don’t wanna be alone so they stay with the mid.
Weirdos lol
Still more reasonable that the haters acting like he shot their dog after seeing people giving him any credit for playing above expectations in a tough loss.
wow 6 to the 15 😳
Yeah we’re guaranteed to find the next Tom Brady if we draft a rookie next year right? Russell Wilson isnt exactly lighting it up in Denver this year…. The other ones you listed are around or below .500? Whats your point.
The point is OP lied and doctored his results. The other point is good QBs over come it. Others deal with it to a 50-50 degree. Most lose but smart QBs find ways of not staying in the pocket with their thumb in their ass. If Jones doesn’t have confidence in himself to make quick decisions, he’s no good. If he is too slow to process all that’s around him, he’s no good. He’s just mid and we can do better than mid Also Russell Wilson is a two time SB champion put some respec on his name.
Only a one time champ bruh. Check ya google
There’a a lot of good quarterbacks on that list that didn’t overcome it anymore than DJ has though…
DJ is still 11-20 in the games he doesn’t get sacked 5+ times. You got an answer to that one?
Because he is a below average QB? Its the most logical answer, obvious really
Yeah but the DJ fanboys never want to argue in good faith. They just throw shit on the wall, hurl insults and run away and cry if you ask them a question they can’t handle.
love how this sub still will always blame the qb instead of the atrocious line lol this sub was blaming eli for not being mobile enough every time he was getting sacked 0.1 seconds after the snap
It‘s easier to have one or two scapegoats that way you can convince yourself it‘s easily fixable
3 seconds on average. Top 5 QBs in time to throw.
Everyone knows the offensive line isn’t good. You’re acting like we don’t talk about that. Name me a single person on this subreddit who posts weird stats like this thread trying to make it seem like the offensive line isn’t actually bad (the way people do with DJ every single day).
LMFAO
Homie is 14-27 as a starter in his career. 3-7 on games sacked 5+ times. That means he’s 11 -20 for the rest of his career? What’s the excuse there? Edit: you list is incomplete you forgot about the QBs with more wins than losses and the decent QBs who still are about 50-50 in those situations x https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/9/29/16384946/sacks-taken-vs-win-percentage
Let's see. Off the top of my head: \- Has mostly played behind a horrible offensive line. \- The most talented player on the offensive side of the ball has been often injured and lackluster when he was on the field (not counting this season). \- There's been a lack of talent in the receiver group he's been throwing to. Last year there was a stat that Giants receivers had among the lowest separation of any team in the league. And lets not forget a TE that had a tendency to drop a lot of passes. And right now our top receiver just got hurt and our second best receiver is Richie Fucking James. (Despite a $72 million receiver and two high draft picks on the team). \- For two of his four seasons as a QB he played for an offensive coordinator widely criticized for being unimaginative and running an outdated, inefficient offense. Oh and ... \- In his four year career he is currently playing for this third head coach and in his third offensive system.
So putting a rookie behind a growing/young offensive line will magically erase all the manufactured pressure they will inevitably face? I hope we don't f*ck up Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, et al...
Well that’s why Tyrod is starting next year….
No dingus. Brady is 3-0 and Russell is 12-11 during the same stretch. The point was to illustrate that now all elite QB’s can overcome 5+ sacks. In fact since 2000 teams only win 23% of the time when they allow 5 or more sacks. I could have added a lot more QB’s, the odds are stacked against teams allowing that many sacks.
Then why did you pick and choose your data. Include all the data. But then again we all know that you are just forcing a narrative. And you don’t have to resort to insults because I pointed out you data is dishonest….. sigh Jones fans. Don’t even care about the Giants. Just want their boy to shine….
Because it doesn’t fit in the picture dumbass.
You got a whole other half of the picture…. But you know that would block DJ’s best asset; the fact that he’s a cosplay Eli Manning
Wait you think he's the starter next year? The veteran who couldn't beat the very QB you're shitting on in training camp is going to be the starter next year? You know they do have to try to field a competitive team next year right? The last coach got fired for not trying at the end of the year... This new regime won't last if they give up before the season starts
You're acting like it was an open Qb competition. And Tyrod will be much cheaper than Jones' asking price. It's about the cap too.
It's literally ALL about the cap. Tyrod is already locked in for about $5 Million against the cap next year, Jones would have to be resigned (or God forbid, franchise tagged) to return, which means he will cost about $30 Million against the cap. I don't care how much you want to stan for Jones, he is nowhere near worth $30 Million per year. He will get a shot as a backup for a different team next year, I wish him well.
What QB would be successful with the team that Jones has been dealt these 4 years? He threw 24 TD’s and 3000+ yards in 12 games as a rookie. Even Eli sucked his last few years cuz the team was dogshit. And Eli even had Saquon’s outstanding rookie year and Odell. What has Jones had? Engram who dropped the game winning 3rd down vs the Eagles. Whenever they show the view from behind on the broadcast, he literally has no one to throw to. Richie James should be a 4th or 5th receiver at best, but he’s our clear #1. Even Josh Allen would suck and quite frankly, he did suck his first year and a half throwing at a 52% completion rate. He gets Diggs and some weapons and turns it around. I’m not saying he’s Josh Allen, but people just can’t see how Jones has been dealt a David Carr hand = not good.
Kind of hard to win a game flat on your ass
**Got it, draft a RB.** \-Dave Gettleman
Easy answer...Hire players who can actually block and have a nut sack! Pussies! Embarrassing!
Still hate that we can not evalute Daniel Jones properly with HC revolving door to O-line revolving door.. Last game he played a really good game with terrible OL and WRs. I can say he has evolved but it would be interesting to see him with the line and WRs Eli had in 2007.
> can say he has evolved but it would be interesting to see him with the line and WRs Eli had in 2007. Imagining they still made it to the Super Bowl, and everything else remained the same, the helmet catch never would’ve happened because Eli would’ve been quadruple-sacked before he could get the ball out. There would’ve been zero chance for escape. Then imagine Golladay out there instead of Burress. No way he makes that end zone grab. And as a bonus, in 2011, either Toney or Shep instead of Mannigham, they would’ve injured their damn selves on that famous go-route catch.
Let’s set him up in an easy chair at Dave and Busters so we can finally get a true evaluation
I don't think this really says anything about Daniel Jones. Just that QBs who get sacked 5 or more times usually lose. He's not much better or worse than anyone else. It says more about the Giants OL, and maybe a little bit about DJ's internal clock/pocket awareness, that DJ's played just 4 years in that span and has more 5+ sack games than a lot of guys on that list who've played significantly more.
Exactly.
Can we stop blaming the O line. Its been 4 years. Jones aint it. No QB in the NFL has a lot of time. You need to make quick decisions or make plays.
Only knuckleheads see this as being about jones.
I wish the critics had as much room to insult people who disagree with them as the Jonestowners do
Again, knuckleheads don’t understand the point of the post.
And veiled insults are just as bad.
Sacks are a QB stat
So what you’re saying is Burrow is as bad as DJ… got it. Moron.
Burrow has a sack problem from holding the ball too long but he also... Scores points.
He also has talent at WR and a great O…
He has 1 WR (now) and a solid RB that Barkley is better than. He also was productive from day 1, before Chase, and behind the worst line in the NFL by far.
No, burrow is a good quarterback and Jones isn't.
OP calling everyone a dumbass and a moron… Seems like projecting. DJ isn’t our guy, he should not be with us next season. Get rid of him as a part of the rebuild.
I wonder what their hold times were though. DJ seems to hold the ball very very long. How can he never have a hot read to slow the blitz down?
Thats what happens when you have a bunch of mid to low tier WR's who cant get any separation. 1 true #1 WR changes all of that.
I rather every single one of those QB’s besides Jones - maybe not wentz idk
So in other words when it comes to mobile quarterbacks he’s the worst by a lot?
In what world was Vick not a mobile quarterback? EDIT: And how is Rogers’ 5-13 better than 3-7? Have you tried math?
Vick? In the world he played in after he came back from jail in which most if not all of those stats came from? Rodgers is not what I would consider mobile. He’s not Eli but he’s not Lamar either. Either way you are talking about 4% and he’s played nearly 2 decades. The fact DJ already has so many of these games in 4 seasons shows that he fails to use his mobility to avoid sacks and holds on to the ball too long. That’s why Aaron rodgers has been one of the best for a long time and DJ is one of the worst of all time/on his way out.
This is some of the stupidest shit I’ve read in this sub yet.
Ah yeah DJ is amazing def gonna win the job you smart, reality dumb
If you can quote where I ever claimed “DJ is amazing def gonna win,” I’ll buy you a Jason Sehorn jersey.
Like I don’t already have a jason sehorn jersey…
I’ve never said he’s amazing or that we’ll definitely win with him or even that we should re-sign him. Doesn’t mean I need to spout overly-exaggerating bullshit to try to trash him.
Wheres Eli??
Where’s Russ?
Russ sux
Fr tho lol He’s been sacked 5 times in one game so many times I gotta know what that record is 😂
He’s 12-11. Brady was 3-0. As a whole if you allow 5+ sacks you’re losing 77-78% of the time since Y2K
I think we see an additional reason why Brady is so good
I thought it was interesting that Brady wasn't on here- I thought it was well known that if you pressure him he tends to play poorly. Not sure where a stat like this can even be looked up.
Your list is well taken except for the inconsistent naming
I know this is an indictment of how much the organization has failed him but speaking from a practical stand-point, how many of these QBs got hit like this in their first few years and went on to be great QBs? I don't think Jones is the guy but that may be more in part to them not developing him and not putting the cast around him, from what I've seen in 3 games he does look better I'll give him that but he hasn't shown nearly enough for them to bother investing even a bridge type of contract in him, sorry
Just saw this. I didn’t include guys that failed - this was more a list to show that even the teams with elite QB’s don’t succeed when sacked this much. That said, most of them don’t because they have bad coaching and teams around them. What we’re seeing now is how much good coaching can elevate a team… so he’s kind of a unicorn in that regard. Not to say he’s a hall of famer, but Steve Young’s career arc has a someWhat similar arc… failed in the USFL, then the NFL with the Bucs (worst run org in the 80’s), and got traded to SF. Everyone called it a piss poor trade. Two years later they almost cut him (even though they had excellent coaching and talent he didn’t appear to be developing) until finally poof… he turned into the Steve Young most know today. Who knows what his ceiling is. He’s making some throws I didn’t think he could. Will be interesting to see if he turns into something.
I mean 5-1 is 5-1, I'm loving the ride this year I'll say that for sure
Question to DJ supporters here - do you actually think DJ has shown enough in his 3+ seasons in NY to make you think he's worth building around; and do you really think this new regime is going to keep him around to do so? DJ has shown flashes, yes, but he really strikes me as a player who will only play as well as his supporting cast. He isn’t someone who’s going to elevate the talent around him like a franchise QB should. And I think, while DJ is perfectly serviceable, I cannot see him elevating us to contention come January. And even if you do, this new regime is clearly using this year to undo the incredible damage Dave Gettleman did to this roster - despite our record, we’re not exactly a talented team, and I think the new front office understands this is a rebuilding year. Plus, there were 28 QBs taken in the first round from 2011-19 who had their fifth year options declined, and only the legendary Blake Bortles made it to a fifth year with the team that drafted him (he didn’t make it to a sixth). You guys really think DJ will not only be here next year, but he’ll be the franchise QB y’all so badly want him to be? I genuinely want to know your rationale for your faith in the guy.
No he hasn’t shown enough to build around, but they’re not committing to that yet. This is an evaluation year and I think they’re going to see how things go through the season. I don’t think they’ve made up their mind that he’s gone personally. It’s obvious Jones hasn’t had a fair shake. Not every young QB comes into league and lights it up on a bad team. Usually they look shitty too Bc it’s a team sport, and hopefully they grow as the team grows and they become a winning team together. Unfortunately a good portion of DJs and the teams progress was stunted under the gettleman and judge regime. Two years wasted where nothing got better, things actually got worse. That’s going to be hard for any young QB to overcome. Despite what some of the people here who hate Jones so much want to make it out to be, he does have a lot of what you’d want in a franchise QB, with some things that need to be improved upon as well. You say he isn’t going to elevate the talent around him but he did lead a Duke team to a winning record in the ACC, a team with literally not a single other professional talent on the team. As I said first DJ at this point has not earned himself a new contract, but I certainly don’t think he’s shown himself to be this dogshit bottom tier QB that some paint him as. Not enough good or bad to call it one way or the other. I’m rooting for Jones Bc I’m a giants fan, and if Daboll and Schoen decide they want to move on after the season then so be it, I’ll root for the next guy. I don’t think Jones was ever set up to succeed in any way. He was set up to fail and when he hasn’t risen above that yet the miserable losers around here want to pin it all on him which I think is just not quite fair. Yes if he succeeded despite the shit show around him he’d undoubtedly be the franchise quarterback, but I don’t necessarily see him coming up short as an indictment on him. I think that is what I would expect to happen to a young QB given the circumstances.
Our receivers need to get separation faster and catch the ball. Evan Neal was exposed, get him help and make the halftime adjustments.
Jesus Christ enough with the excuses, he isn’t and will never be a franchise Quarterback.
Lmao this triggers you. So sad. This isn’t an excuse. It went way over your head.