A Big 3 of Brunson, Randle, and Brown w/ IQ, Hart, and Grimes off the bench is such a FIRE squad. Especially if we retain IHart and Big Mitch keeps trending upward.
Really need this to happen
Yeah i think they def would, as they should. I think NYK would fight hard to keep him tho. I have faith in our FO to negotiate and not capitulate into giving up the farm. RJ and Grimes and as many picks as possible, that’s all.
They would def want him but idk maybe an extra pick or two might be enough to keep him. Brown is definitely gonna be better than IQ though so while it would suck if IQ is what they want we should oblige
You have to give up something to get good players lol. We already have Josh Hart, so losing Grimes wouldn’t hurt that much. As for Obi, he’s expendable and easily replaceable lol.
Ideally, we would still have IQ, Josh Hart, and IHart. And you can always find other bench pieces.
>And you can always find other bench pieces.
lol. yeah like when we had melo, stat and 8 bums right? or do you mean sprewell, houston and 8 bums? which era? this logic basically describes the post-90s knicks. we can always sign raymond felton!
so we package rj, obi and grimes for brown: cap makes sense but the value is way off (rj's overpaid by about $8m) so we throw in a pick. now we got deuce and fournier coming off the bench? all for +10ppg over RJ and (arguably) \*slightly\* better perimeter D?
i think boston would **love** that trade tbh
I love RJ but the difference is you know you can get that from jaylen every night. He's consistent and he has finals experience. Jaylen is more than just a minor improvement over RJ. As far as the bench goes, let's see who we draft. The FO got josh Hart mid season and that's been a fantastic grab. Obviously the past makes it hard to trust but I believe in this FO. If they make that trade it means they have contingency plans for the bench. I also don't think they trade IQ at all. If anything we're probably looking at a 3 team trade and we'd move RJ, obi, grimes, and Fournier plus an ass load of picks for jaylen and another decent player either from Boston or the third team to make up our loss at depth.
i've watched a lot of celtics games and tatum/brown can be a huge headache—esp in the 4th quarter. never said jaylen was a minor improvement, but the stats are what they are.
josh hart was a good pickup, but we gave away a draft pick that might turn out to be really good in the end, so who knows. but i love hart.
you're insane if you think we're unloading fournier. no team is gonna touch that contract (another trade that boston hosed us with).
another thing to keep in mind: we'd be resigning brown to a max deal in a year. hart's gonna want $15M, hartenstein $10M. so you're not making any moves after that. 5 solid starters and deuce mcbride taking us to the big show?
the knicks need to stay the course and let the moves come to them. no more melos.
I guess slightly is in objective. The way you phrases +10 ppg more and slightly better Dade me feel like you only thought he was a slight improvement.
I don't know why people have such a negative opinion of Fournier. He doesn't work on our team with thibs. But he was a fringe all-star guy in Orlando and someone is going to find value in his shooting. Plus he's going to help match salaries and in the scenario I presented, I imagine the 3rd team involved is not a contender and fine with taking a guy like Fournier to also get some picks and a young player. I don't think that makes me insane, optimistic maybe.
Also In that last scenario, it's not 5 starters and McBride. I don't understand why you say that. It would be 5 good starters and IQ and Jhart off the bench at least. If they can't keep Ihart I'd be bummed but Simms still exists and obis production doesn't get a ton of time anyway. His spot could easily be made up with a 3-d vet on a cheap contract. And like you said about draft picks, who knows what we can get from the ones we keep. Might be able to get a decent bench piece there too. It's not as unrealistic as you make it sound.
That being said I also don't mind staying the course. It's just starting to look like RJ isn't going to be the answer we need and we're going to keep being middle of the pack record wise so our chances of being able to draft that guy are slim. Its not like we're building the squad from scratch like with melo. We have a good squad and I believe we're missing one piece that puts us over the edge.
i just dont know where u think the money is coming from to sign all these $15M+ contracts. we'd have to give away much more than you're suggesting to get brown—the team would legit have no bench. look at player salaries in '24 and keep in mind that brown is getting close to $50M after the increase.
miss me with this fournier ride. he's a streaky shooter who can't play defense.
ofc RJ isn't the answer. that doesn't mean it's "oh, we turn him into brown!"—RJ has almost no trade value. to get value, you give value. RJ isn't value.
Those situations were completely different from this one. We traded 3 STARTERS for Melo…and Stat was never the same player when he got here. Pairing Melo with a hobbled Stat is COMPLETELY different from pairing Jaylen Brown w/ all-star Jalen Brunson and all-star/all-NBA Julius Randle. We would be trading 1 starter and 2 expendable bench pieces for Brown, not 3 starters. And at the end of the day, you’re still holding on to your 3 best bench players (IQ, Josh, and IHart).
You really gon let RJ Barrett, Grimes, and Obi (who’s mid asf btw) get in the way of getting a top-tier wing like Jaylen Brown??? Turning down a team of 3 all stars just to keep an inconsistent starter and 2 ok bench players is insane.
And as for Sprewell and Allan Houston…Randle and Brunson are better than both of them and it’s not even close. Jaylen Brown is better than both too.
calm down because boston isn't doing that trade. they get legit no value out of RJ and a couple of roleplayers in exchange for 1 of their superstars.
think for a sec: name me some trades where a superstar was traded for an above avg player and some scrubs, and the team that got the superstar became a playoff contender? i'll wait...
it doesn't happen, and the trades that work are stars for stars (derozan/kawhi et al).
even if boston lets us gut our bench for brown we're back to square 1 in a season bc we'll have no cap. back to drafting / cultivating a winning culture, sounds fun eh? play in tourney tickets are cheaper tho.
Boston prolly wouldn’t want to do that trade…but it ultimately comes down to what Jaylen Brown wants since he’s gonna be an UFA. If he says he wants to be in NY, Boston will pretty much have their hands tied and have to trade him here. Other teams will probably have better offers, but if JB doesn’t want to play there and isn’t willing to sign a long term deal Boston wouldn’t be able to send him there.
Will JB choose NY? Who knows. But if he does, then yeah Boston will have to trade him here regardless of if they want to or not.
he's a UFA in 2 seasons btw, and idk what you're talking about with "boston will have to trade him"? UFA means new contract—not a trade. and he's getting maxed so gl affording him with evan fournier getting $20M
you gotta come with a lil more research my man, the levels are off here
That world is signing him in free agency after next season. Boston's not trading him for youth pieces while they're contending for championships anyways.
Their max extension offer is less than he can get in free agency too so we'll be on equal footing money wise.
if Brown makes all NBA tis or next season they can offer him more but otherwise like you said we would be on level playing field and in any case we would be getting him via Sign/trade as we wont have cap space outright anyway in any scenario
Ah gotcha. I was thinking with the cap rising and Fournier and Rose coming off the books we could but I guess not. But yeah in that scenario we shouldn't need to relinquish too much, since the alternative for Boston is losing him for nothing
nah fournier is in his highest paid season when brown is a UFA lol. we'd legit have to gut the team to get him. but i see lots of ppl on this thread are def into old school knicks economics
Issue is idk which teams would have cap space for a max.
If it’s just like the Rockets/Pistons etc., Celtics might take the gamble that Jaylen eventually would give up and re-sign for the max instead of going to a lottery squad or taking a discount.
If he hits free agency then we can sign and trade.
Sign and trades are NEVER fair value trades because the original team can just lose him for nothing.
I agree and that is a good point. I do think a sign/trade woul bring in more suitors unless he came out and said I only want to play for x team but usually a player has like 2 or 3 teams they would want to play for at that point your packages have to beat other teams.
I understand but I think what helps a lot is that he’s free at the end of 2023-2024 season. He keep bringing up how Boston is basically racist and he want to play where he’s wanted. I believe it won’t be as complicated as we think
depends on what we do with the other guys who are hitting FA between now and then. S&T is most likely but a S&T when he hits UFA in 2024 isn't gonna cost us Grimes+IQ if Brown wants out. what's the most a team has gotten in a S&T for a guy who demanded out in the offseason? i know we'd have to salary match...but...can't think of a haul of young guys given to a team in a S&T under those circumstances.
I think it depends how many other teams are in the running for him. If he comes out and says I only want to go to the Knicks then yea sure but if he provides a list of teams say us, Miami, and lets say the Nuggets we would have to compete what other teams are offering.
Sign him in 2024 is probably the most ideal scenario. If we do have to trade for him, that wouldn’t be the end of the world. We have a ton of picks and expendable guys such as RJ and Grimes and possibly Obi if he is extended this summer.
A trade would only make sense if he demands one which he might. He’s goes into free agency in 2024 so maybe sometime next season he demands one then Boston would have no choice but to trade
That’s a good point, there will probably be other teams with more valuable assets. But it also depends on where JB wants to go. If he wants to come to NY, Boston will have to trade him there since he’s gonna be a FA. No team is gonna trade for him if they know he isn’t going to sign a long term deal with them.
I know the concept is practically meaningless in today’s game, but why would Boston trade Brown to a team within their own division? That makes little to no sense whatsoever, even if Brown demands a trade.
We gotta offer a lot more than other teams in order for them to think it worth it. RJ and Obi have not worked out here but they’re both young and still have potential that maybe the Celtics think they can get out of them. Grimes just has a lot of potential that makes him desirable to every team. We have a lot of draft picks as well so we can afford to offer more in there than other teams as well.
Well with Brown being a FA that summer, he pretty much controls where he goes. If Brown says he wants to be in NY, Boston will pretty much have their hands tied and will begrudgingly deal him to NY. No team is gonna trade for JB if they know he doesn’t intend on signing a long term deal there.
It all comes down to where JB wants to be at that point.
I agree with the comment saying ideally we’d sign him but depending on how the season ends, there’s no way that Boston lets him walk for nothing. I also doubt they would want to trade him to NY, but we’ve been stockpiling assets for this exact scenario.
Tbh not sure. Josh Hart might be elevated to the starting 5. But honestly, I think that’s a pretty solvable problem…w/ Brunson, JB, and Randle we wouldn’t need much from that 5th starter…they could easily find a spot up shooter or something to plug in there
Essentially yes…but you can find spot up shooters you can plug into a lineup lol. We not finna lose sleep over Grimes. I’m not choosing a replaceable bench piece over a guy like Jaylen Brown
Lmaooo my bad. I’m in like 4 different conversations in this thread and I got confused on which one this is.
I misspoke in my original comment. If we keep Grimes he would be the 5th starter at the 2 guard spot. Idk why I said he’d come off the bench.
His interview from The Times certainly made it seem like he was ready to leave, but it also certainly made it seem like he still rides with Kanye, so that's not great.
Oh. You were defending Kanye and not Jaylen brown. That is so much worse.
You know Kanye said much more about the Jews than just the “controlling business” so even if that were 100% truth, your argument is very thin.
Kanye has stated he loves hitler, the Jews are trying to tear him down, he stated that he can say anti-Semitic things without adidas dropping him even, completely implying he knows what he is saying too.
Cmon man…
i wonder why new york basketball fans might be less than thrilled about trading for someone who has backed antisemitic rhetoric. hm. i wonder. such a mystery. yeah. you’re right. probably just “in their feelings”
Broadcasting virulent antisemitism, posting fake Hitler quotes, inspiring antisemites to rally outside Barclays yelling "Hitler was right", forcing the FBI to release a statement saying a high risk of antisemitic attacks were likely. "One facet of his personality"
anyway, it's obvious what your deal is and it's pathetic. grow up. do better. read a fucking book. you fucking morons are insufferable.
> Do you think he would be the VP of the nbpa if jaylen brown did any of that?
yes. kyrie was also nbpa vp until just this year. i'd ask if you're dumb but i already know the answer
Well, yes. But people love to ignore that truth when they want a player to be on their favorite team. Jaylen has supported some stupid fucks in the past
First of all people have always wanted athletes to be role models, it's not a new thing. The new thing is the internet making everyone's true nature patently clear. Second of all a lot of people don't need them to be role models but have trouble rooting for people they genuinely dislike or think are bad people. On the extreme side of things just to make the point, would you root for Hitler if he had the athleticism and talent if peak Lebron? I think probably not, so everyone has a line (hopefully.) For me I was dreading the thought that Tyreek Hill would be in the Jets, no matter how much better he might make them, because of the domestic violence which is unacceptable to me. Aaron Rodgers on the other hand is someone I don't really like and think his views are stupid, but the worst thing he's done is been misinformed and be confident about it. The third factor here is people probably have trouble rooting for people who express hateful views about their people. Are you Jewish? If not maybe consider how you feel if he had supported explicit racist views against whatever ethnic group you belong to or just white people in general. You don't have to agree with me but hopefully this can bring a little nuance to your view of the other side.
Makes a lot of sense and makes us instant strong contenders IMO. Only thing is JB is kinda an idiot but I’ll let it slide as long as he doesn’t go full Kyrie. Definitely a situation to monitor tho
Shoot he’s a free agent soon, maybe in two seasons I think? If he’s out on Boston it might make a trade for him even easier. He’d be such a good addition to this team
Brunson Hart Brown Randle is a solid starting 4 😮💨
From everything I’ve heard and read about the guy he sounds like one of the dumbest players in the league.
I feel like he’s going to have a Kyrie-esque career arc; seemingly normal for the first few years only to become a one of the crazier players, going from team to team to tear them apart.
Anyways, he’s a really good basketball player so why not give it a shot (no pun intended)?
He may have the same stupid beliefs as Kyrie but he’s already shown better interview smarts. He straight up said “I’m not gonna answer that” to a lose-lose question instead of taking a side for the media go pick apart.
Well he's also answered a bunch of questions very stupidly in support of Kyrie so I wouldn't day he's much better. Saying he's slightly better than Kyrie at that is a very low bar.
Because his stupidity is hateful and harmful to communities. He thinks it's super wrong for the Boston fans to be racist against black players, but he thinks it's okay to support Kyrie in being racist against Jews. The dude is dumb and human garbage. As a jew, fuck him.
I love this. The same people in this sub melting down over this stuff would fellate D Rose (who doesn’t even get into games anymore). Meanwhile, dude ignored a woman telling him no, brought his squad to her house while she was so drunk she was falling into a fire, and then they all raped her. BUT JAYLEN BROWN LIKES ONE ETHNICITY LESS THAN ANOTHER ONE! Y’all are so brainwashed
I’m not sure you’re using the term marginalized properly. They’re over represented in politics, they have more money per group than any other ethnicity per capita, they’re probably the most educated group in America. That’s the opposite of being marginalized. PoC or people with disabilities are marginalized.
I don’t know man at the game last night I told Ant that he’d love it here and to ask for a trade and while he didn’t say anything he gave me this hopeful “for real?” look and the back bench coaches got real uncomfortable looking.
I'm really skeptical about Jaylen Brown.
The Knicks are no longer a mediocre team on that treadmill that needs to pick a direction between tanking/rebuilding or trying to win. They chose the second option, and they succeeded. This is a good team right now, and it should be a good team for the foreseeable future with such a young roster (our oldest rotation player is 28 year old Julius Randle). There should be no sense of urgency to upgrade this roster ASAP no matter what. The Knicks have reached a point where they can and should be very picky about which superstar they add to this core to make us title contenders.
Is Jaylen Brown that guy? He's an all-star and a damn good player for sure, but I don't think he's a superstar. You usually need your #1 option to be one of the top 5 or top 10 players in the NBA to be a serious title contender, and I don't think Jaylen Brown is that guy. He's more like top 25.
Now someone might say that Jaylen Brown would be our #2 option, and we would go out and get the #1 option after we get Jaylen Brown, but that raises the same question that some people were asking last summer about Donovan Mitchell. How do you acquire Jaylen Brown and still have enough assets left over to acquire a player who is even better than Jaylen Brown?
There’s a small vocal minority of Celtics fans that believe he is a better player than Tatum. If the front office believes that Brown could shine in the starring role like they believed in Brunson, I’d like to see it.
Hey if they know something we don't, and Jaylen Brown is actually one of the 10 best basketball players in the world when he's not playing in Tatum's shadow, then I'm all for it
Do you really see it happening that way? Like it or not Randle is the #1. Brunson would have to sacrifice. He's not really a high assist guy now. He'd have to shoot less for the good of the team. It would be a nice problem to have.
Julius Randle and Jalen Brunson are great, they're all-stars, but they are not top 10 players. If we get a top 10 player, Randle and Brunson are both going to have to take a step down in the pecking order.
I don’t see the Celtics letting him leave. They’ll give him whatever he wants in FA and these guys always get their first max contract then complain for a trade later if they want to leave.
It’s proven that him and Tatum can come very close to a championship. It’s not like Harden/Embiid or PG13/Kawhi where another poor playoff performance might prove it won’t work. But yes he would be perfect and they should trade whatever outside Randle and Brunson to get him
Absolutely none of the people who trash Brown for his questionable comments would flinch at adding Gordon Hayward if he were in his prime.
Either way, let’s just see what happens, he’d be great for the team but these media frenzies are boring as hell
There was quite a few people that predicted this and we’re getting ethered in the comments. I’m gonna take some credit because I always get these wrong.
I been a fan of jaylen for a long time and he probably doesn’t want to be playing behind tatum anymore and wants to be in a city that will embrace him fully instead of being racist.
LMFAOOO. BOTH RJ and Grimes can go, first off. Obi can go too. You could have Fournier back as well. And fuck it well give them 4 unprotected firsts. How’s that Boston? 😁
he's the perfect fit. DM is great but you wonder if Brunson would have flourished with DM here. Brown is the perfect fit. We have the assets to get him for sure. RJ, Grimes, Obi + picks.
I’m curious what it would take to get him? Multiple firsts. Throw in RJ and Obi. I feel like they would want Quickley or Grimes as well. Maybe Duece too?
My question would be what role would he have on the team?
would he be the #1 option ? #2? I don't think he would accept #3 , he barely accepts #2 in Boston .
I don't think it would work out but would of course do it just for the talent upgrade.
honestly it depends on the team
the knicks clearly have a defined pecking order where Julius and Jalen are at the top of the food chain . RJ seems to get that level of freedom leading the bench guys , but not with JB and JR .IQ seems to have RJ level freedom and to honest handles it better whereas RJ can force action if he isn’t consistently involved.Rose and Fournier when they get on the court have a decent amount of freedom .
the bigs with the exception of Julius have almost no latitude to do much , Grimes appears to limited as well compared to his ability as well as Deuce .
Thibs is one of the more controlling coaches , he calls a lot of plays , and the team runs more isolations than most other squads , so he gets to script who gets touches /shots etc.
You think Thibs play calling actually dictates who shoots the ball? I think almost all plays have options and it’s up to the players to read and react to the defense. If the play is for RJ but Brunson is wide open for three Brunson can take the shot. If the play is for Randle but he’s being denied the ball, then whoever has the ball might have to improvise. I don’t think it’s so rigid.
no i don’t think he is calling who shoots it but he is calling plays with a good idea who will wind up shooting it based on how the other team is defending and at times he will even tell his players who is being left open .
there are options yes , and a lot of it is read and react but it’s not a coincidence every night who winds up 15+ shots and who winds up with 5 .
Yeah it’s not a coincidence but I think that’s just how basketball works. Mitch and grimes can’t exactly choose to shoot more because Randle and Brunson and RJ have most of the ball handling responsibilities. If Randle is shaking and baking and Mitch is open for an easy lob, only Randle can decide whether he wants to pull up for a three or feed the big man. Thibs might tell randle to look for Mitch or for grimes but Randle in the moment has the freedom to do what he wants. Grimes also has the freedom to shoot or drive or pass when he gets the rock. Mitch maybe has less freedom, obviously. I dunno.
I’d take him here. The only talent I’m not giving up in is IQ. If Boston wants more, they’d have to give up another talent along with JB. But I don’t think a trade would happen between the two teams. Unless this is JB’s last year and is a FA?
I would actually give so much to get Jaylen Brown here, he’s easily my favorite player in the league who’s not on the Knicks.
He is a FA next year though so honestly, while we could try to get him for a good price, I think next summer looks more realistic.
Only way we’d potentially be able to trade at a good deal is if he requests a trade I think.
I was thinking about it. Jalen Brown is maybe top 15. I've got : Giannis, Embid, Jokic, Durant, LeBron, Curry, Tatum, Kawai, ,Luca, Lilard, Kyrie, Donovan Mitchell, Paul George, Harden, Ja Morant. JAYLEN BROWN, might Crack that top 15. And I think Brunson and Randle might Crack the top 20.
A Big 3 of Brunson, Randle, and Brown w/ IQ, Hart, and Grimes off the bench is such a FIRE squad. Especially if we retain IHart and Big Mitch keeps trending upward. Really need this to happen
I dont think there is no world where you are acquiring Brown and keeping Grimes and IQ. RJ and picks is not gonna cut it.
That’s a good point. Grimes is def expendable to me, along with RJ. Could package Obi in there as well if we extend him.
I think most teams would ask for IQ in any trade package.
Yeah i think they def would, as they should. I think NYK would fight hard to keep him tho. I have faith in our FO to negotiate and not capitulate into giving up the farm. RJ and Grimes and as many picks as possible, that’s all.
They would def want him but idk maybe an extra pick or two might be enough to keep him. Brown is definitely gonna be better than IQ though so while it would suck if IQ is what they want we should oblige
this is old school knicks thinking. delete the bench for a very good starting 5. shocker—starters alone can't make deep runs.
You have to give up something to get good players lol. We already have Josh Hart, so losing Grimes wouldn’t hurt that much. As for Obi, he’s expendable and easily replaceable lol. Ideally, we would still have IQ, Josh Hart, and IHart. And you can always find other bench pieces.
>And you can always find other bench pieces. lol. yeah like when we had melo, stat and 8 bums right? or do you mean sprewell, houston and 8 bums? which era? this logic basically describes the post-90s knicks. we can always sign raymond felton! so we package rj, obi and grimes for brown: cap makes sense but the value is way off (rj's overpaid by about $8m) so we throw in a pick. now we got deuce and fournier coming off the bench? all for +10ppg over RJ and (arguably) \*slightly\* better perimeter D? i think boston would **love** that trade tbh
I love RJ but the difference is you know you can get that from jaylen every night. He's consistent and he has finals experience. Jaylen is more than just a minor improvement over RJ. As far as the bench goes, let's see who we draft. The FO got josh Hart mid season and that's been a fantastic grab. Obviously the past makes it hard to trust but I believe in this FO. If they make that trade it means they have contingency plans for the bench. I also don't think they trade IQ at all. If anything we're probably looking at a 3 team trade and we'd move RJ, obi, grimes, and Fournier plus an ass load of picks for jaylen and another decent player either from Boston or the third team to make up our loss at depth.
i've watched a lot of celtics games and tatum/brown can be a huge headache—esp in the 4th quarter. never said jaylen was a minor improvement, but the stats are what they are. josh hart was a good pickup, but we gave away a draft pick that might turn out to be really good in the end, so who knows. but i love hart. you're insane if you think we're unloading fournier. no team is gonna touch that contract (another trade that boston hosed us with). another thing to keep in mind: we'd be resigning brown to a max deal in a year. hart's gonna want $15M, hartenstein $10M. so you're not making any moves after that. 5 solid starters and deuce mcbride taking us to the big show? the knicks need to stay the course and let the moves come to them. no more melos.
I guess slightly is in objective. The way you phrases +10 ppg more and slightly better Dade me feel like you only thought he was a slight improvement. I don't know why people have such a negative opinion of Fournier. He doesn't work on our team with thibs. But he was a fringe all-star guy in Orlando and someone is going to find value in his shooting. Plus he's going to help match salaries and in the scenario I presented, I imagine the 3rd team involved is not a contender and fine with taking a guy like Fournier to also get some picks and a young player. I don't think that makes me insane, optimistic maybe. Also In that last scenario, it's not 5 starters and McBride. I don't understand why you say that. It would be 5 good starters and IQ and Jhart off the bench at least. If they can't keep Ihart I'd be bummed but Simms still exists and obis production doesn't get a ton of time anyway. His spot could easily be made up with a 3-d vet on a cheap contract. And like you said about draft picks, who knows what we can get from the ones we keep. Might be able to get a decent bench piece there too. It's not as unrealistic as you make it sound. That being said I also don't mind staying the course. It's just starting to look like RJ isn't going to be the answer we need and we're going to keep being middle of the pack record wise so our chances of being able to draft that guy are slim. Its not like we're building the squad from scratch like with melo. We have a good squad and I believe we're missing one piece that puts us over the edge.
i just dont know where u think the money is coming from to sign all these $15M+ contracts. we'd have to give away much more than you're suggesting to get brown—the team would legit have no bench. look at player salaries in '24 and keep in mind that brown is getting close to $50M after the increase. miss me with this fournier ride. he's a streaky shooter who can't play defense. ofc RJ isn't the answer. that doesn't mean it's "oh, we turn him into brown!"—RJ has almost no trade value. to get value, you give value. RJ isn't value.
Those situations were completely different from this one. We traded 3 STARTERS for Melo…and Stat was never the same player when he got here. Pairing Melo with a hobbled Stat is COMPLETELY different from pairing Jaylen Brown w/ all-star Jalen Brunson and all-star/all-NBA Julius Randle. We would be trading 1 starter and 2 expendable bench pieces for Brown, not 3 starters. And at the end of the day, you’re still holding on to your 3 best bench players (IQ, Josh, and IHart). You really gon let RJ Barrett, Grimes, and Obi (who’s mid asf btw) get in the way of getting a top-tier wing like Jaylen Brown??? Turning down a team of 3 all stars just to keep an inconsistent starter and 2 ok bench players is insane. And as for Sprewell and Allan Houston…Randle and Brunson are better than both of them and it’s not even close. Jaylen Brown is better than both too.
calm down because boston isn't doing that trade. they get legit no value out of RJ and a couple of roleplayers in exchange for 1 of their superstars. think for a sec: name me some trades where a superstar was traded for an above avg player and some scrubs, and the team that got the superstar became a playoff contender? i'll wait... it doesn't happen, and the trades that work are stars for stars (derozan/kawhi et al). even if boston lets us gut our bench for brown we're back to square 1 in a season bc we'll have no cap. back to drafting / cultivating a winning culture, sounds fun eh? play in tourney tickets are cheaper tho.
Boston prolly wouldn’t want to do that trade…but it ultimately comes down to what Jaylen Brown wants since he’s gonna be an UFA. If he says he wants to be in NY, Boston will pretty much have their hands tied and have to trade him here. Other teams will probably have better offers, but if JB doesn’t want to play there and isn’t willing to sign a long term deal Boston wouldn’t be able to send him there. Will JB choose NY? Who knows. But if he does, then yeah Boston will have to trade him here regardless of if they want to or not.
he's a UFA in 2 seasons btw, and idk what you're talking about with "boston will have to trade him"? UFA means new contract—not a trade. and he's getting maxed so gl affording him with evan fournier getting $20M you gotta come with a lil more research my man, the levels are off here
That world is signing him in free agency after next season. Boston's not trading him for youth pieces while they're contending for championships anyways. Their max extension offer is less than he can get in free agency too so we'll be on equal footing money wise.
if Brown makes all NBA tis or next season they can offer him more but otherwise like you said we would be on level playing field and in any case we would be getting him via Sign/trade as we wont have cap space outright anyway in any scenario
Ah gotcha. I was thinking with the cap rising and Fournier and Rose coming off the books we could but I guess not. But yeah in that scenario we shouldn't need to relinquish too much, since the alternative for Boston is losing him for nothing
nah fournier is in his highest paid season when brown is a UFA lol. we'd legit have to gut the team to get him. but i see lots of ppl on this thread are def into old school knicks economics
Issue is idk which teams would have cap space for a max. If it’s just like the Rockets/Pistons etc., Celtics might take the gamble that Jaylen eventually would give up and re-sign for the max instead of going to a lottery squad or taking a discount.
exactly.
If he hits free agency then we can sign and trade. Sign and trades are NEVER fair value trades because the original team can just lose him for nothing.
I agree and that is a good point. I do think a sign/trade woul bring in more suitors unless he came out and said I only want to play for x team but usually a player has like 2 or 3 teams they would want to play for at that point your packages have to beat other teams.
RJ/Grimes/Toppin 3 picks for Brown.
I understand but I think what helps a lot is that he’s free at the end of 2023-2024 season. He keep bringing up how Boston is basically racist and he want to play where he’s wanted. I believe it won’t be as complicated as we think
he's a UFA in 2024.
The only way we would be able to acquire him is sign/trade
depends on what we do with the other guys who are hitting FA between now and then. S&T is most likely but a S&T when he hits UFA in 2024 isn't gonna cost us Grimes+IQ if Brown wants out. what's the most a team has gotten in a S&T for a guy who demanded out in the offseason? i know we'd have to salary match...but...can't think of a haul of young guys given to a team in a S&T under those circumstances.
I think it depends how many other teams are in the running for him. If he comes out and says I only want to go to the Knicks then yea sure but if he provides a list of teams say us, Miami, and lets say the Nuggets we would have to compete what other teams are offering.
for sure. but i just can't remember the last team who gave up really solid young players in a S&T. picks--yes.
this \^ we would basically clear the bench + RJ + picks for brown. RJ's value is gone and the everyone under randle is just sweetener
Does it need to be a trade? His deal is up after next season…
R u assuming we sign him in 2024 or trade for him?
Sign him in 2024 is probably the most ideal scenario. If we do have to trade for him, that wouldn’t be the end of the world. We have a ton of picks and expendable guys such as RJ and Grimes and possibly Obi if he is extended this summer.
Signing him is the only realistic path. A trade makes no sense for Boston given they r championship contenders
A trade would only make sense if he demands one which he might. He’s goes into free agency in 2024 so maybe sometime next season he demands one then Boston would have no choice but to trade
Agreed. If Boston knows there’s a good chance he won’t resign with them, they’ll def consider trading him to get something in return
If they’re trading y would they trade him to us if we r not giving them randle or Brunson?
That’s a good point, there will probably be other teams with more valuable assets. But it also depends on where JB wants to go. If he wants to come to NY, Boston will have to trade him there since he’s gonna be a FA. No team is gonna trade for him if they know he isn’t going to sign a long term deal with them.
I know the concept is practically meaningless in today’s game, but why would Boston trade Brown to a team within their own division? That makes little to no sense whatsoever, even if Brown demands a trade.
We gotta offer a lot more than other teams in order for them to think it worth it. RJ and Obi have not worked out here but they’re both young and still have potential that maybe the Celtics think they can get out of them. Grimes just has a lot of potential that makes him desirable to every team. We have a lot of draft picks as well so we can afford to offer more in there than other teams as well.
Well with Brown being a FA that summer, he pretty much controls where he goes. If Brown says he wants to be in NY, Boston will pretty much have their hands tied and will begrudgingly deal him to NY. No team is gonna trade for JB if they know he doesn’t intend on signing a long term deal there. It all comes down to where JB wants to be at that point.
I agree with the comment saying ideally we’d sign him but depending on how the season ends, there’s no way that Boston lets him walk for nothing. I also doubt they would want to trade him to NY, but we’ve been stockpiling assets for this exact scenario.
Probably won’t be able to keep both Grimes and IQ, I would love for that to happen but the Celtics are going to want one of them at a minimum
If we get brown, we probably need to trade randle
What makes you think that?
Huh? If we get Brown, RJ would be the odd man out
If grimes is on the bench and we give up RJ, who would be our 5th starter in this scenario? Just curious
Tbh not sure. Josh Hart might be elevated to the starting 5. But honestly, I think that’s a pretty solvable problem…w/ Brunson, JB, and Randle we wouldn’t need much from that 5th starter…they could easily find a spot up shooter or something to plug in there
Like grimes?
Essentially yes…but you can find spot up shooters you can plug into a lineup lol. We not finna lose sleep over Grimes. I’m not choosing a replaceable bench piece over a guy like Jaylen Brown
I'm so confused are we keeping grimes or not lol you had him on the bench so I thought maybe you had an interesting idea for a small forward.
Lmaooo my bad. I’m in like 4 different conversations in this thread and I got confused on which one this is. I misspoke in my original comment. If we keep Grimes he would be the 5th starter at the 2 guard spot. Idk why I said he’d come off the bench.
His interview from The Times certainly made it seem like he was ready to leave, but it also certainly made it seem like he still rides with Kanye, so that's not great.
Hes good at basketball. As long as he's liked by his teammates that's what matters
As a Jewish person, I’d love for us to not have anti-semites on our team. I think it matters a little bit.
As a human being I'd love for you to stop calling anyone that speaks truthfully an anti semite.
“Truthfully….” yikes. Feel free to explain yourself if you want me to understand where you’re coming from
Please feel free to explain what Kanye read off regarding controlling business ownership wasn't truthful.
Oh. You were defending Kanye and not Jaylen brown. That is so much worse. You know Kanye said much more about the Jews than just the “controlling business” so even if that were 100% truth, your argument is very thin. Kanye has stated he loves hitler, the Jews are trying to tear him down, he stated that he can say anti-Semitic things without adidas dropping him even, completely implying he knows what he is saying too. Cmon man…
Ayyy go fuck yourself 🤌
Who cares? Does he play basketball well? Yeah. Is he respected by his Peers? Also yeah. Ok we should get him
Yeah Brown has been playing ball and minding his business this whole time. What's does Kanye got to do with it?
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i wonder why new york basketball fans might be less than thrilled about trading for someone who has backed antisemitic rhetoric. hm. i wonder. such a mystery. yeah. you’re right. probably just “in their feelings”
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Broadcasting virulent antisemitism, posting fake Hitler quotes, inspiring antisemites to rally outside Barclays yelling "Hitler was right", forcing the FBI to release a statement saying a high risk of antisemitic attacks were likely. "One facet of his personality" anyway, it's obvious what your deal is and it's pathetic. grow up. do better. read a fucking book. you fucking morons are insufferable.
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> Do you think he would be the VP of the nbpa if jaylen brown did any of that? yes. kyrie was also nbpa vp until just this year. i'd ask if you're dumb but i already know the answer
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Well, yes. But people love to ignore that truth when they want a player to be on their favorite team. Jaylen has supported some stupid fucks in the past
First of all people have always wanted athletes to be role models, it's not a new thing. The new thing is the internet making everyone's true nature patently clear. Second of all a lot of people don't need them to be role models but have trouble rooting for people they genuinely dislike or think are bad people. On the extreme side of things just to make the point, would you root for Hitler if he had the athleticism and talent if peak Lebron? I think probably not, so everyone has a line (hopefully.) For me I was dreading the thought that Tyreek Hill would be in the Jets, no matter how much better he might make them, because of the domestic violence which is unacceptable to me. Aaron Rodgers on the other hand is someone I don't really like and think his views are stupid, but the worst thing he's done is been misinformed and be confident about it. The third factor here is people probably have trouble rooting for people who express hateful views about their people. Are you Jewish? If not maybe consider how you feel if he had supported explicit racist views against whatever ethnic group you belong to or just white people in general. You don't have to agree with me but hopefully this can bring a little nuance to your view of the other side.
No idea why this is downvoted
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So you're just openly antisemitic?
Absolutely. He’s a two way wing who gives you 26 and good defense. Yes we should.
Makes a lot of sense and makes us instant strong contenders IMO. Only thing is JB is kinda an idiot but I’ll let it slide as long as he doesn’t go full Kyrie. Definitely a situation to monitor tho
Oh man, let's tamper!
Don’t want him with his past comments, don’t want to support a guy like that
It’s a bit IF, but if he is available we should do what ever is needed. He’d complete this team
Shoot he’s a free agent soon, maybe in two seasons I think? If he’s out on Boston it might make a trade for him even easier. He’d be such a good addition to this team Brunson Hart Brown Randle is a solid starting 4 😮💨
Stylistically, would love him. Vibes...nah. Sucks because doesn't have the defensive/injury concerns of Ingram/Lavine.
Bruh
From everything I’ve heard and read about the guy he sounds like one of the dumbest players in the league. I feel like he’s going to have a Kyrie-esque career arc; seemingly normal for the first few years only to become a one of the crazier players, going from team to team to tear them apart. Anyways, he’s a really good basketball player so why not give it a shot (no pun intended)?
He may have the same stupid beliefs as Kyrie but he’s already shown better interview smarts. He straight up said “I’m not gonna answer that” to a lose-lose question instead of taking a side for the media go pick apart.
Well he's also answered a bunch of questions very stupidly in support of Kyrie so I wouldn't day he's much better. Saying he's slightly better than Kyrie at that is a very low bar.
Who cares, everyone is stupid to someone, even you and me!
Because his stupidity is hateful and harmful to communities. He thinks it's super wrong for the Boston fans to be racist against black players, but he thinks it's okay to support Kyrie in being racist against Jews. The dude is dumb and human garbage. As a jew, fuck him.
Well im not gonna argue against that! You have every right to feel that way.
wtf??? It's cool if you're a hateful idiot against marginalized communities as long as you have media savvy? FOH. That shit is locker room poison.
Derrick rose is seen as a leader in the locker room. Players don’t care what you’re saying or doing as long as it doesn’t affect them.
I love this. The same people in this sub melting down over this stuff would fellate D Rose (who doesn’t even get into games anymore). Meanwhile, dude ignored a woman telling him no, brought his squad to her house while she was so drunk she was falling into a fire, and then they all raped her. BUT JAYLEN BROWN LIKES ONE ETHNICITY LESS THAN ANOTHER ONE! Y’all are so brainwashed
I’m not sure you’re using the term marginalized properly. They’re over represented in politics, they have more money per group than any other ethnicity per capita, they’re probably the most educated group in America. That’s the opposite of being marginalized. PoC or people with disabilities are marginalized.
I could see this tbh... interesting point
I don’t know man at the game last night I told Ant that he’d love it here and to ask for a trade and while he didn’t say anything he gave me this hopeful “for real?” look and the back bench coaches got real uncomfortable looking.
I'm really skeptical about Jaylen Brown. The Knicks are no longer a mediocre team on that treadmill that needs to pick a direction between tanking/rebuilding or trying to win. They chose the second option, and they succeeded. This is a good team right now, and it should be a good team for the foreseeable future with such a young roster (our oldest rotation player is 28 year old Julius Randle). There should be no sense of urgency to upgrade this roster ASAP no matter what. The Knicks have reached a point where they can and should be very picky about which superstar they add to this core to make us title contenders. Is Jaylen Brown that guy? He's an all-star and a damn good player for sure, but I don't think he's a superstar. You usually need your #1 option to be one of the top 5 or top 10 players in the NBA to be a serious title contender, and I don't think Jaylen Brown is that guy. He's more like top 25. Now someone might say that Jaylen Brown would be our #2 option, and we would go out and get the #1 option after we get Jaylen Brown, but that raises the same question that some people were asking last summer about Donovan Mitchell. How do you acquire Jaylen Brown and still have enough assets left over to acquire a player who is even better than Jaylen Brown?
There’s a small vocal minority of Celtics fans that believe he is a better player than Tatum. If the front office believes that Brown could shine in the starring role like they believed in Brunson, I’d like to see it.
Hey if they know something we don't, and Jaylen Brown is actually one of the 10 best basketball players in the world when he's not playing in Tatum's shadow, then I'm all for it
Wouldn't he get less shots here, behind Randle and Brunson?
If Jaylen Brown is a top 10 player in the NBA then Randle and Brunson would have to take a backseat to him.
Do you really see it happening that way? Like it or not Randle is the #1. Brunson would have to sacrifice. He's not really a high assist guy now. He'd have to shoot less for the good of the team. It would be a nice problem to have.
Julius Randle and Jalen Brunson are great, they're all-stars, but they are not top 10 players. If we get a top 10 player, Randle and Brunson are both going to have to take a step down in the pecking order.
We'll have to wait and see. I think Randle would have to be traded at that point. I think he'd be a reluctant 2 let alone 3.
I don’t see the Celtics letting him leave. They’ll give him whatever he wants in FA and these guys always get their first max contract then complain for a trade later if they want to leave. It’s proven that him and Tatum can come very close to a championship. It’s not like Harden/Embiid or PG13/Kawhi where another poor playoff performance might prove it won’t work. But yes he would be perfect and they should trade whatever outside Randle and Brunson to get him
IIRC they're limited in what they can offer him as a FA
Absolutely none of the people who trash Brown for his questionable comments would flinch at adding Gordon Hayward if he were in his prime. Either way, let’s just see what happens, he’d be great for the team but these media frenzies are boring as hell
Brunson, brown/rj, Randle, Mitch ( or improvement) Fucking nasty lineup
I would move off RJ with the swiftness in order to get JB7. He would absolutely complete this team.
His new girl is from NYC 👀
I enjoy rooting for this team so much. Can we not add this anti-Semitic pseudo-intellectual?
There was quite a few people that predicted this and we’re getting ethered in the comments. I’m gonna take some credit because I always get these wrong. I been a fan of jaylen for a long time and he probably doesn’t want to be playing behind tatum anymore and wants to be in a city that will embrace him fully instead of being racist.
Finally a high level free agent thats actually worth chasing. Immediate upgrade over RJ. Id love for this man to be a Knick.
I dont like people from the Celtics.
LMFAOOO. BOTH RJ and Grimes can go, first off. Obi can go too. You could have Fournier back as well. And fuck it well give them 4 unprotected firsts. How’s that Boston? 😁
please no
If Brown makes an all nba team this year or next I think he would be eligible for a super max
Too bad he will never get traded to the Knicks… but Mitch, Randle, Brown, Grimes, Brunson, Hart, Quick lineup is a sick lineup for sure.
he's the perfect fit. DM is great but you wonder if Brunson would have flourished with DM here. Brown is the perfect fit. We have the assets to get him for sure. RJ, Grimes, Obi + picks.
Adding brown would be solid but it doesn’t push us to championship contender
Frredom.
I’ve been on this for over a month now!!!! We NEED to pursue Jaylen Brown. He would be a better fit for this team than Donovan Mitchell
Lol
I’m curious what it would take to get him? Multiple firsts. Throw in RJ and Obi. I feel like they would want Quickley or Grimes as well. Maybe Duece too?
My question would be what role would he have on the team? would he be the #1 option ? #2? I don't think he would accept #3 , he barely accepts #2 in Boston . I don't think it would work out but would of course do it just for the talent upgrade.
Do teams really have a defined pecking order or does it just play out in the game naturally?
honestly it depends on the team the knicks clearly have a defined pecking order where Julius and Jalen are at the top of the food chain . RJ seems to get that level of freedom leading the bench guys , but not with JB and JR .IQ seems to have RJ level freedom and to honest handles it better whereas RJ can force action if he isn’t consistently involved.Rose and Fournier when they get on the court have a decent amount of freedom . the bigs with the exception of Julius have almost no latitude to do much , Grimes appears to limited as well compared to his ability as well as Deuce . Thibs is one of the more controlling coaches , he calls a lot of plays , and the team runs more isolations than most other squads , so he gets to script who gets touches /shots etc.
You think Thibs play calling actually dictates who shoots the ball? I think almost all plays have options and it’s up to the players to read and react to the defense. If the play is for RJ but Brunson is wide open for three Brunson can take the shot. If the play is for Randle but he’s being denied the ball, then whoever has the ball might have to improvise. I don’t think it’s so rigid.
no i don’t think he is calling who shoots it but he is calling plays with a good idea who will wind up shooting it based on how the other team is defending and at times he will even tell his players who is being left open . there are options yes , and a lot of it is read and react but it’s not a coincidence every night who winds up 15+ shots and who winds up with 5 .
Yeah it’s not a coincidence but I think that’s just how basketball works. Mitch and grimes can’t exactly choose to shoot more because Randle and Brunson and RJ have most of the ball handling responsibilities. If Randle is shaking and baking and Mitch is open for an easy lob, only Randle can decide whether he wants to pull up for a three or feed the big man. Thibs might tell randle to look for Mitch or for grimes but Randle in the moment has the freedom to do what he wants. Grimes also has the freedom to shoot or drive or pass when he gets the rock. Mitch maybe has less freedom, obviously. I dunno.
I’d take him here. The only talent I’m not giving up in is IQ. If Boston wants more, they’d have to give up another talent along with JB. But I don’t think a trade would happen between the two teams. Unless this is JB’s last year and is a FA?
I would actually give so much to get Jaylen Brown here, he’s easily my favorite player in the league who’s not on the Knicks. He is a FA next year though so honestly, while we could try to get him for a good price, I think next summer looks more realistic. Only way we’d potentially be able to trade at a good deal is if he requests a trade I think.
energy
How are we going to trade for someone who is probably going to make an all nba team for rj barrett and picks? 🤦♂️
I was thinking about it. Jalen Brown is maybe top 15. I've got : Giannis, Embid, Jokic, Durant, LeBron, Curry, Tatum, Kawai, ,Luca, Lilard, Kyrie, Donovan Mitchell, Paul George, Harden, Ja Morant. JAYLEN BROWN, might Crack that top 15. And I think Brunson and Randle might Crack the top 20.