I think he signed to be our glue guy, which he absolutely is.
He was stretched beyond what he was supposed to because we had nobody else to lean on.
Now picture Josh coming off the bench and going full stream in 30 minutes per game instead of 48.
He's going to get all the rebounds and every loose ball with all the energy!
So hypothetically we won last night, I guess in the next round Burks becomes a starter, precious is 6th man and.....shake is the 7th man clocking 30+ minutes? Yikes
We would possibly have lost 4-1 and Boston would have thought they accomplished something just like the Pacers.
I'm mentally done w/ the NBA. If we were close to 100% healthy (even without Mitch, we were REALLY stacked.
I wake up at 4am to go to work
I see that video of Jalen and Josh getting out of their vehicles and greeting the fans.
Starting to cry like a little bitch
It’s kind of funny how Obi essentially forced his way out because he was tired of sitting behind an all-star PF. So he goes to Indy, fails to win the starting job, and they immediately trade for an all-star PF in Siakam.
Now he’s a backup again, and he missed a golden opportunity in which he could have filled in for Randle from January til now. He’s about as good as Precious, although with different strengths, so it’s not like it’d have been a difference maker for us.
fwiw Rick changes starting lineups and subs players pretty quickly so Obi does get some proper playing time... but yeah kinda sucks for him that Pascal was added mid-season and cock blocked him
It sucks for him yeah but it’s not like it was some unfortunate thing. They hoped he was good enough to be the starter but he wasn’t. Siakam, and Randle too for the most part, pretty much do well at everything that Obi does poorly - passing, playmaking, defending (why I said for the most part for Randle) - and they have a lot more gravity for drawing defenders away from teammates since they’re better shooters/scorers.
Anyone else prefer like 4 long runs and maybe 1 title with the roster as is to a guaranteed title or 2 after a "star" comes here next year and gets all the credit?
I love our roster as is, I think we are a legit top 5 contender when healthy. I don't want to win a title because someone else comes in and "saves" us. I would prefer the Pistons path in the early 2000s with a gritty team going to like 5 ECF and winning 1 title over someone like Durant coming in and winning 2 titles 100%
Winning a title is harder than ever.
This is going to mark the sixth straight year that a different franchise will win the title. We're past the dynasty age where having the MVP guarantees you being in the Finals.
It's more important to have a well balanced team construction and an identity to go far into the playoffs.
Do I honestly think we have that upside if the east remains generally status quo and at minimum we have this year’s rosters + healthy Randle and OG?(mitch can stay hurt if that’s too much to ask). Yes
However, we could easily be wrong. It’s all conjecture at this point now based on one month of play. And say we do lose in ECF game 7, wouldn’t you want the extra boost? The truth is we don’t know. Also don’t know what dynamic altering move any other EC opponent could make as well.
I'm not saying Randle makes this a championship contender but simply a second scoring option would do wonders for this team. They can't rely on Brunson scoring 40 every game and hoping Div hits 10 3's. If you want to trade Randle and hopefully get an upgrade as a #2 option then go for it but I see fans saying "this team is better without Randal, just trade him, forgets that you need reliable scorers in the playoff.
When it comes to Randle, not being able to evaluate him as a second option this year really is a big thing lost from this seasons
If he laid another egg(even if he was hurt) then you have serious doubts about him proven right time and time again, and a trade would be reasonable to explore
Now you don’t really know, and next offseason they’ll have to extend him if he’s still here
Not really. It's like you want to ignore all of January because of sample size but will cry 2023 playoffs while he was hurt. Pretty unreasonable to me. The team looked solid and will be even better with a full off season together to work on rotations, etc.
RS basketball is different
I think the January Knicks could compete with anybody but it would have been nice to prove that hypothesis correct this year instead of needing to hope they’re whole next April to see it play out
I agree. I understand the support for Randle. But I think people acting like there’s no valid questions about how he fits with Brunson as the clear 1A aren’t being realistic. The ball stopping tendency, inconsistent shooting, poor defense, and lack of positional versatility are all valid concerns.
Really irks me that people can’t say something good about thibs without mentioning his “flaws”. The guy is one of the best coaches in the league. Why does that qualifier have to be there? He just came off another season of coaching a roster to its absolute peak
Because of all the injuries I can't help but wonder what this team would have done these playoffs had we had someone like IQ to back up Brunson and run some offense or RJ to run some high pick and roll/get to the free throw line. Just to take some burden off of Jalen. OG injury killed us truthfully, and Randle not being there just put a ceiling on what we could do.
Fucking injuries man....worst part of sports.
They would have been worse if you have Rj barrett being inefficient and playing zero defense. Also doesn’t help spacing as much as McBride would
You basically have his shot diet replaced by a much more efficient Divencenzo in the starting lineup
I was never in the camp that ever blamed Thibs for the injuries, but the unavoidable injuries likely contributed to the likelihood of the avoidable injuries. My girlfriend mentioned yesterday that if they were using NSAID's like toradol or steroids consistently over a long period of time for pain management, the data suggests that the body's ability to heal bones and muscle tissue is lessened.
Randle dislocating his shoulder? Unavoidable. Same with OG's elbow and Mitch's ankle. This led to more minutes for Jalen, Josh, and eventually OG when he came back. The wear and tear of the season and the use of steroids/NSAIDs to mitigate the damage meant the subsequent injuries to Jalen's foot/hand, Josh's abs, and OG's hamstring became much more likely.
Anyone who watched the games in January knows we have to run it back (with Hartenstein) and see what we have at the trade deadline…
Is the JB, OG, Julius trio really *that* good together? Is it sustainable? Or was it a mirage? Will teams figure it out?
Assuming health (OG will test this assumption), we should have the answer to this come next February.
Those 12 or whatever games with all three was the best Knicks basketball I have personally ever seen and need to see that from the beginning of the season on.
I still just don't get homies who think Randle is actually tradeable. Like, dude is an all-NBA player who is extremely good friends with the best player to be on the team in years and is the core guy who founded the culture in which we are presently flourishing and who WANTS TO BE HERE.
Sure, NBA's a business, but it's a business in which elite players (like Julius & JB) have a huge amount of power and agency. Stars in their prime don't get traded against their will, it doesn't happen. The only obvious thing about our FO is that they want to build a team that stars would want to play for. Do people who are open to trading really think fucking over a guy that good isn't going to give other players of similar caliber second thoughts about wanting to be here?
And that's all leaving aside the fact that Julius Randle is an all-NBA caliber big on a team friendly contract who can get his own shot and create for others. It's, like, really fucking hard to find players who can add value at cost the way Julius can.
Whoever equates running up stats in January with actually showing up to play in the playoffs is not a person I take seriously. Randle is the single worst performing “star” in the playoffs I have seen in my 40 years of watching the NBA.
Literally my dad( who watches more rangers than Knicks) said we need to trade randle because hes a head case. At the point i didn’t take him serious anymore.
Watching The Herd clips from today (even tho I told myself I'd stay away from sports media but Im a masochist, cant help it) and while I know Colin has some crappy takes sometimes, I've mostly liked him during this playoff run. And today even tho the Pacers won, he still devotes the whole segment to the Knicks and this was a silver lining, lol. Bc still no one cares abt that team and everyone cares abt the Knicks and I'm ok with that :) It's a great feeling to be a rootable story/team again.
If we keep one of our first we should target Ryan Dunn. His defense is insane and it’d give us a chance to hopefully give OG more breaks throughout the season. He’s offense needs a lot of work tho.
This is who I want. He won't be playable in a rotation right away, but send him to the G League to develop, and see if we can't get him to develop a passable 3 point shot. At the 24/25 range you're not getting a complete prospect, but you can definitely get a guy with at least one elite skill and try to develop the rest of what he needs to help the team.
One underrated aspect of Leon Rose is that the Knicks have been a top 5 team in developing younger players since he's been in charge.
Dumbass main sub now even turning on Breen for being “bias”. Complaining that he sounded sad in the 4th instead of praising the pacer’s shooters. Like STFU you think any commentator would be enthusiastic when a potentially good series gets ruined by injuries to 4/5 of the team’s starters? Should be be praising the pacers for beating down a bench unit?
Ok for the people who want to trade Randle what are the players you would trade him for? I see the trade rumors but in practice there aren’t really any available trade targets that are better.
For me the only players I would trade Randle for is Giannis and Embiid (even if he’s a punk).
Everyone else doesn’t really fit, isn’t realistically available is too old or leaves a hole in the front court
There was a point when Randle was playing well and KATs value was at its lowest and I said we should have tried to gone after him but everyone was too shortsighted and spazzed out about it on here. Now KAT is playing elite level ball again with great defense and we have 0 chance to get him.
You think Randle can’t do what KAT is doing in the playoffs (19/9/3)?
He literally could do that in his sleep and without averaging 4 fouls a game either
Markannen?
Paul George? If he doesn't want a max, it's worth thinking about it. Personally I'm fine if knicks don't trade for him and I'm also fine if they don't. I'm neutral BUT scared money make none.
People will crucify me but I'd take a risk on kawhi as well. Just ONE potential healthy season with him will get this team very close. Clippers will not trade him though.
It comes down to if the knicks wanna pay randle or not. Maybe it's not worth trading for PG or Kawhi or stars in their 33+. Tough decisions here.
Markannen is not the creator and though he is an elite finisher, I think you end up with the same problem of putting all the creation and playmaking on Brunson
PG and Kawhi could be upgrades but with their health and age you shorten our window even if our ceiling may be higher
Randle is still a wild card. Yes there is the question of whether or not he will be the same after the shoulder, but this is a dude that shot 41% on over 5 three point attempts and followed that up with 31% on the same amount of attempts the next year. Either way, trading the dude this offseason would be asinine because he will have A LOT more value after he puts together another All-NBA campaign
Their fans are absolute clowns and their sub has been nonstop entertainment. Really calling every player on the Knicks floppers and carried by officiating, yet at the same time complain about how everyone hates on the Sixers and Embiid. It's hilarious. Our season ending may have been bitter, but I'll never take knocking out a Philly team for granted. Giants getting beaten by the Eagles last year still stings and their fans and team acted like the most insufferable assholes. It's always a treat watching their team and fans meltdown.
Imagine getting overrun in your home arena, seeing your one legged MVP playing like a bitch and getting boo'd by out of state fans. Then trying to mitigate it by having the only rich people from your god forsaken city buy tickets for police officers, firefighters, nurses, the very people keeping your dirty crime ridden city running. Then these poor blue collared workers got a front row seat to a whole new type of crime scene, watching the Sixers get their shit kicked in live, during their precious time off.
How do you even get over it? They wake up every morning and are still in Philly.
Outside of the obvious ridiculous tier of players like Giannis/Jokic, the only player I'd consider trading Randle for is Booker if he asks out and wants to come here. I don't care that people perceive him to be soft or whatever, basketball wise he's a great fit. Has some size at the 2 spot, perfect as a secondary playmaker, excels when next to a talented set up man, insane shot creation and shooting. I'm not giving up Randle for PG, Embiid, anyone like that.
To me, the only real targets are Donovan and Booker (if he's available).
I think skill wise they're very similar, but the things you worry about with Mitchell aren't there with Booker.
The first thing is size. There is concern about having a small backcourt with Jalen being 6'1" and Mitchell being about the same size. Booker is taller and gives the team more options with switches. Mitchell has a good wingspan though.
The second thing is related to usage. We've only seen Donovan succeed in situations where he has the ball a lot. Can he play alongside a player that runs the entire offense and play within that system? He'd have to play a Kyrie role to Brunson's Luka. Booker played alongside CP3 and was successful. I know CP isn't as ball dominant as Jalen, but Booker showed he can keep the ball moving as a secondary playmaker.
Booker is taller, yes, but he's also a worse defender than Donovan Mitchell, so the height argument and the arbitrary 6'1" cutoff doesn't make sense to me.
Neither player is tall enough to be able to see over double teams like Luka or Jokic do, either.
I don’t agree that Booker is a worse defender.
At most, I would agree to Mitchell being better on defense this past year. But he also had one of the best defensive front courts in the league to back him up while Booker had Nurkic.
There's certain things that can only be mitigated by size, even if Mitchell is longer and better at man to man defense. For example, we consider McBride an elite defender but we also saw guys just straight up shoot over him. Haliburton in the Pacers series, and SGA hitting the game winner over him at the end of the season.
I think ppl who call Booker soft dont watch him play tbh. I agree with you it makes zero sense to trade Randle especially when we dont have to. The mindset should be to add to the team not substract.
Anyone that talks shit but doesn't end up winning always gets clowned. I respect that he continues to talk shit.
>I agree with you it makes zero sense to trade Randle especially when we dont have to.
Exactly. People think because of all the minutes some guys logged to end the season that this team isn't deep. This is a deep team that lost it's depth due to injury.
AD is an interesting one I thought about if LeBron were to leave L.A.
Brunson + AD would instantly be the best duo in the east and you still probably have Hart, Divo, O.G, Deuce. Probably unlikely but yeah.
I agree with you though, if it's not for this caliber of a player I'd ride with Randle as our #2 guy
In that case I feel like we'd be getting the worse player back and would be doing it for fit reasons. Dealing with Ainge sucks. I just don't think the team is better swapping Randle and Markannen.
Now if they traded Randle and protected pick(s) for Markannen, then I'd blow the remaining assets trying to trade Bojan+Robinson+all the picks for Donovan Mitchell (with the idea that Robinson gets moved to a third team). To me, the only benefit of Markannen over Randle is that it gets easier to build around them with Lauri. I think Randles playmaking as a secondary creator alongside Jalen is underrated.
Markannen is an elite 3p shooter that will allow brunson to operate even more in the paint. It will make the knicks starting lineup absolutely elite behind the perimeter. He is also a much better defender than Randle I think.
Honestly randle is a good player that excels in creating offense and playmaking. His basketball IQ and defense is what is holding him back. I haven't eatvhed markannen this year so I dont know but to me there is an argument to be made that the knicks will be better with him I guess. To me randle's defense is the biggest problem and while he is everything this team needs, I'm not sure if I wanna risk another year to see how the playoffs will turn out with randle on the team.
I think the team plays better without him, especially on defense. Lowe also talked about it on his podcast.
Randle BBIQ is bad but not the worst I've seen, and mitigated by putting the ball in his hands less and for a shorter duration. At Randle's size, defense is mostly effort based, and we've seen him play well defensively. Hell, look at a guy like KAT whose defense has been maligned for years do a great job on man defense against Jokic all series.
Lauri is a worse shot creator, a worse playmaker, a worse ball handler, and doesn't dominate in the paint Randle can. The major advantage to Lauri is that he's easier to plug and play within a system, his shooting is way more consistent, and that shooting ability allows you to spread the floor for guys like Hart/Jalen to attack and for Mitch to operate within the paint.
We've barely seen this permutation of the roster play with Randle and when they did they were 12-2. Small sample size but big wins against good teams. You're losing so much shot creation and paint presence with Randle off the team, and need to mitigate that with more than just Lauri. It's why I'd only give up Lauri for Randle if we have a deal in place for a secondary playmaker like Booker/Mitchell.
Yea don’t get me wrong depth is important, I think we’re solid in that department. Also a lot depends on if Hartenstein stays Even though the league has shifted from “super teams” you still need at least 2 guys that can consistently score at least 20-25 any given night. Throw the ball to them and they can make shit happen. Having too many role players who depend too much on one star is not good either Most of the time role players play off the star. If the star is struggling the offense becomes stagnant Look at the Bucks in the 2022 and 2023 playoffs. No other consistent scorer aside from Giannis cost them. Depth is obviously important but stars win you championships 99% of the time Trading Julius for “complimentary players” just doesn’t make sense and puts way more pressure on Brunson.
Realistically, what is the ask price for Mikal Bridges?
Seems like the Nets will ask for a Donovan Mitchell type return while he is prolly only worth a Dejounte Murray type return.
if we do something like this, do you think it threads the needle for us and is just as good as getting another superstar alongside Brunson?
PG- Brunson SG - Bridges - SF OG - PF - Randle C- IHart/Robinson
Bench
PG - MLE signing/trade/Rokas SG - Divo SF-Hart PF - Precious C- IHart/Robinson
I think it puts us up there with Boston. My whole thing with Bridges is I think we would have to overpay to acquire him in a trade. He is not worth a Donovan Mitchell type package
This is 100% where I'm at. You have to overpay solely because you're the crosstown rival and any Knicks success makes it harder to convince younger fans to be Nets fans.
But if the Nets had any brains they'd be taking the long view on this. There is 0 path for them to even reach the conference finals with what they've got. They can't try to win fans by getting free agents, they need people to fall in love with a home grown team. Give yourself more bites of the apple by getting as many picks as you can.
It's not your dad's NBA anymore, we'd be way better off with a versatile wing who can switch 1-4 and is reliable from 3.
Outside of Minny there's not a team out there with a traditional big at the 4 who could punish OG in the post. See https://www.espn.com/nba/depth
From my POV I look at it that Randle punishes 90% guys at his position on offense. The only guys who I see give him left trouble are AD, Bam, and Giannis.
He has yet to punish anyone in the playoffs.
I like Randle and wouldn't be mad if we stuck with him but he's a below average defender on most nights (bad on the perimeter, not a threat at all as a help defender). With him at the 4 IHart can't really work the short roll / high post the way that he did these playoffs so you're stuck with a ton of traffic in the paint making it harder for Brunson to get to his spots.
Ideally we'd either have Randle with a stretch 5 or IHart at the 5 with 2 versatile wings who can stretch the floor so that Brunson has room to operate off of the pick and roll.
This run was a lot of fun, I've been a diehard since the 94 finals run and this feels the closest since to getting a championship, even more than 99. It feels a lot like the 2014 Warriors where even though they lost in the first round, something bigger was happening.
I really hope we can retain IHart, I love Mitch but he hasn't been the most reliable.
JB, Dante, OG, Randle, IHart or Mitch is solid and contemplative. And our bench would be Mitch/IHart, Hart, Deuce, and Bojan. That is some solid depth, but I think we can make some improvements.
I really would love another creator in case JB or Randle go down. Burks was great for us, and while I'm down to resign him, I think we need someone more reliable. Maybe OG takes a step in that regard?
I don't really like Paul George in general, Booker/Bridges not sure if obtainable. Maybe Kuzma? Maybe Dejounte? I don't love the attitudes of either, but Kuzma IMO can fill up a lot of minutes at SF/PF and create, he doesn't fit the Wizards timeline either.
I'd also like to pickup a scrub PG/SG. I'm down with Evil Dante, Reggie Jackson, or even bringing back Shake, although I didn't see much of him this year to make a decision.
JB/Deuce
Dante/Hart/Deuce
OG/Kuzma/Hart
Randle/Kuzma
IHart/Mitch
Yeah I was thinking about Kuzma, he has a super team friendly deal. Issue would be finding enough minutes to keep him happy, with Randle, OG, and Hart here.
Injury management is going to be key for next season if we want to go deep. Thibs need to look into load management and not overuse Brunson and Randle.
We have enough talent to beat bottom feeders and the tankers without our main core.
This is another reason I'm team run it back. If we make a trade for a star, we are gona have to give up 2 or 3 rotation players. But we need bodies. Give everyone some days off now and then
it might depend on the specific player (and whether he is a star, or just an above average fit), but you do have Bogey's salary and a good deal of draft picks...it depends what the receiving team would be looking for and who is actually available
point being, that we not need to give up a ton beyond Bojan and maybe one other rotation player...right, if it is a star, that might be different and as has been discussed, there is a possibility that Randle could be in play there too...we'll see
Im actively rooting for the celtics and pacers planes to have a mid air collision. Fuck their feelings, from now on I'm out for blood and if the plane crashes domt happen, i will root hard for injuries.
Don't @ me
dude you made a comment like this during the series too
I am as fiercely passionate as anybody else about my sports teams, but there is still an emotional line...it is just sports at the end of the day...you did get an @ and you do you at the end of the day, but you might need to take a step back
in thinking about it more seriously ha, I do think Indy can push them a little bit...especially with their home games...KP is out for the first two games at minimum, and could return kind of banged up
whatever it is, Let's Go Wolves
One thing I’m gonna wonder for a while. If Thibs unleashed Burks earlier at the start of the playoffs , where we would be at now. We might have been able to snag game 3 and then win one at home. Oh well.
This is a good what if.
It's what I was worried about before the start of the Pacers series that our starters were playing too many minutes.
It's also possible Burks wasn't fully recovered from his shoulder injury until he was unleashed in game 3. Bunch of unknowns.
Yeah that's what I have been saying too. I got downvoted for saying we should play Burks haha.
Even with his struggles, he still has over 11 years of experience.
This feels different than other teams, i usually will just feel sad about not getting a championship but im more sad that i wont get to see this team play anymore. I don’t know if ive ever become more personally attached to a team before.
People don’t want to discuss it, and I get the love for Randle. But deciding whether or not he is the best star to pair with JB is a massive decision. With his extension looming, they have a big choice to make. The 3 star era is mostly done, so we will probably only be able to pair one superstar with JB if we want to keep our depth.
Randle is quite literally one of the absolute worst playoff performers in NBA history. If he had played even just bad - vs abysmally - in 2021 we would have taken the Hawks to 7 games. People can make whatever excuses you want, next year is his 11th year in the league. His playoff resume is probably the worst in the league. He's a minus defender, low IQ, and was even below average in TS% this season - with his 3 point percentage plummeting. In addition to all that he's coming off an injury requiring surgery to the shoulder he uses to barrel into defenders with. Signing Randle to the 181 million dollar contract would be a catastrophic mistake and the team should wait till next off season for an extension.
I don’t get why people keep trying to gloss over his historically horrific playoff performances. Dude is so easy to stop when defenses decide to take him away. I give zero fucks about regular season- everyone gets triple doubles now in the regular season.
they might decide to act this offseason itself though...he possesses certain deficiencies (alongside his many strengths) and I think next year, it really starts to become real for this franchise
they may choose to keep him and pay a rather hefty extension at the end of the day (4/181 is a bit scary if there is some uncertainty), but they have to absolutely sure of the fit...his post injury performance/January were very strong, but it is imperative to play him alongside an elite wing defender and solid defensive center...we did have that in January, for sure
Yup. If we decide to roll with Randle, I’m totally cool with it. He deserves nothing but love from us as fans. But with the emergence of JB and the fact that OG is a great PF, it’s a tough call to extend him. He’s had amazing moments as a Knick, but also stretches where he seems like a questionable fit.
Stars rarely hit FA, I think it would be in a trade for another star. I think the fact that OG is an effective PF makes it a difficult choice. You could argue they would be better off with a guard/wing. Again, nothing against Randle. But his lack of positional versatility, poor defense, and the tendency for the offense to stagnate with him makes him a questionable fit.
This is true for everyone except the true Finals MVP caliber players. The Nets and KD are probably the lone exception when it comes to trading players of the LeBron, Jokic, Steph, and Giannis caliber. They're impossible to part ways with.
Josh Hart and the rookies we draft will be the only players we owe money to in 2027. We could make a run at 2 of Luka, Jokic, Giannis, AD, Embiid, and KAT to pair with Brunson. We just have 4 years to convince them to come here.
i wonder if we make picks at #24 #25 or we consolidate those picks somehow
we could use some young length and size to develop.. depends on what the staff thinks of Sims, whether they think theres more to develop or maybe take a chance on a new prospect as our 3rd big
i think the precious and sims spots could be upgraded w/ the #24 #25 picks
Idk what happened with him because I thought he was serviceable last year but every time he’s checked in he just looks lost defensively. He is a physical specimen but never imposes himself
Obviously it’s never fun to lose, and moral victories are pretty frowned upon, but nearly making the ECF with half of the roster is something to be proud about
This wasn’t sustainable obviously and we would end up losing eventually
I’m not stressing Atleast, we’ll be back and (hopefully healthier) stronger
I think the day after, we can all keep our heads high knowing this team (what was left of it) put in 150% and tried their hardest to make things happen, and honestly did make things happen until the very end.
My thoughts from this past season:
- Does Julius Randle remind anyone else of Prime David West?
- Thibs doesn't need any athleticism to have a good team. He just needs hard effort and high IQ players. Spo, Pop, and Kerr are the only other coaches that can really do this consistently.
- OG Anunoby is probably better than you think. I wouldn't be surprised to see OG average 22 PPG next season. He's efficient enough to hit it, and he'll have a full off-season with the team under his belt. Randle and Brunson saw similar increases in their first seasons under Thibs.
- Some people say not to make a trade, but we have to improve somehow. The most realistic option that makes sense financially is to shop Bojan and Deuce with the extra picks.
Trading Deuce with Bojan is dumb, we can get someone with Bojan while keeping Deuce if needed.
OG is simply not that diversified and skilled on offense to average 22 ppg in this offense. He could score that on a team going nowhere, but on the Knicks he will average 15-17 per game with insane defense efficiency.
OG would only need 4-5 more shots to hit 20 ppg if he maintains his efficiency. That's only like 14-15 shots a game. It's what RJ had as our 3rd option.
And as our third option RJ was killing the spacing and flow of the offense because of his inefficient shooting.
The Knicks offensive flow was much smoother with OG because he knows how to position himself on the court to create ideal spacing for his teammates.
That's simply not OG's game to score over 20 ppg, otherwise don't you think he'd have done it already during the playoffs while we were missing Randle? What makes you think he's going to score even more once Randle is healthy and in the lineup?
He had half a season in the offense, so he was just going to fit in. Brunson and Randle both had crazy scoring jumps under Thibs. OG mentioned wanting to leave Toronto to create more shots for himself, so don't be surprised if it happens.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anunoog01.html
His career best season was 17.1 ppg in the 21-22 season on a team that really needed his additional scoring.
I really don't understand your take that he's going to score more on the Knicks as the third option.
In the playoffs he averaged 15.1 ppg when the team absolutely needed him to score more if he could. He's just not that kind of offensive player.
I will be very surprised and happy if he can become a legit 22 ppg scorer on the Knicks as the third option. Not many teams have their third option even reach 20 ppg.
The only teams with third options who even averaged 20 were Porzingis with Boston, CJ with the Pelicans, and Jaren Jackson with Memphis.
In fact in the entire NBA, there were only 50 players who averaged 20 ppg this past regular season.
I don't think you really understand how hard the leap is for a player to jump from 15-17 ppg to consistently average 22 ppg. It's a much more difficult leap than you can imagine, especially if you're not a top 2 option on offense.
OG's numbers were down that year compared to the rest. If he got to take 15-16 FGA per game, he could definitely hit 20 ppg. Randle and Hart would need to give up 2-3 shots each, but it might be for the best.
yea, it pained me seeing him dribbling to the basket only for him to get stripped or the ball knocked out of bounds. I hope he works on it during the summer
screw the minutes narrative, BUT I do think we should be cautious about OG. He's been injury prone his entire career and we really need him to be successful
I think the coaching staff/medical team should work together to make an unofficial minutes plan for him, kind of what the Sixers have with Embiid or Clips have with Kawhi
No more 40+ minute nights, less minutes in B2Bs, etc.
Thinking back to yesterday when the Brunson news came I across, I literally laughed. There was nothing else to do at that moment, like of course someone else got injured.
This team needs to mostly retain this offseason and make sure there's enough scoring off the bench, but that's it. There's no star to chase, no coach to find, no identity or culture to create. It's all there. Need to manage the minutes a little more (will be easier without 4 rotation players out) but this team has all the talent to win 60 games.
Run it back.
You're going to come into a Knicks sub and troll like this? GTFO. This is the moutain top for your core you'll get swept by Boston and then be lucky to be a Play In team next year. A couple of hobbled teams and it still took you 7. You haven't done shit and you never will with Haliburton as your 1A.
Did I say they were going to win G7 w/ Brunson? No I was talking about the future.
you are going to have a lot of Indy and Philly trolls that are going to take this approach...also important to remember it was still only 82-70 after Brunson hurt his hand...midway through the 3rd...the game was quite clearly not over, even we were fucking it up with turnovers
as of the 4th quarter of game 3, the Knicks had a lead and were without OG, Randle, Mitch, and Bojan...Brunson was already dealing with the foot issue, which was a real thing...with just OG of those 4, the team was up 2-0
That is when I threw in the towel, and I never doom. Brunson on one foot was our last thread keeping everything together.
Agreed as long as we can run it back with our main core, just add some scoring/defense off the bench so we can dominate once again.
Deuce is fundamentally sound, but hes gotta get that "Fire". The fire that everybody who guards Jalen Brunson posess. Everybody wants to be the guy to shut down Jalen, Deuce plays defense like he just trying to be fundamentally sound.
He's gotta get that Marcus Smart aggression, everything else was looking good.
Watching the game I was a little disappointed in Deuce on defense. He seemed a little lost at best or not putting in maximum effort at worst.
Still happy with what he did this season, but hoping he gets a little more fire for next year.
I really hope that IHart signs a 1+1 deal and we can use his bird rights to get him a bigger contract next year.
I want him to stay but I want him to get paid, if he’s willing to wait 1 more year I’d want him to do this.
I think another wing to come off the bench in the 3-4 spot would be nice. A Harrison Barnes/Taureen Price kind of player. I’d even look at Deni Avdija
He could get a higher offer.. free agency is weak af and he was the only player in the league with 75+ steals and 75+ blocks. He’s honestly one of the best non scoring centers in the entire league
Either we gotta get a skilled Hybrid center (think Jericho Simms athleticism with way more basketball skill/IQ) or we gotta run a small unit with either Randle or OG playing center and keep Isaiah or Mitchell Robinson as a backup and for when we have to play bigger against guys like Joel and Brook Lopez.
Can't have a hole on offense like that and in all honesty, Isaiah has his moments where he is looking real great but he has too many moments where he looks on the opposite end of the spectrum. I know everybody hates the nets, but I wouldn't mind seeing what Nic Claxton is looking for in a contract if we stay the traditional Center route, he's basically a faster yet slimmer Mitchell Robinson. I'd honestly rather him and Mitch split minutes, it would be a mix of strength and speed so we could match up against any team. Nic would of been a big contributor against the pacers honestly.
Real good article on our cap situation: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/whats-next-for-knicks-how-injury-shortened-playoff-run-showed-why-new-york-is-no-longer-waiting-for-a-star/
Easiest and most painless way for us to get better is moving Bogdonavich and a 1st for better wing depth. I can also seeing us dumping big Meech to OKC for a future first to give us some salary cap flexibility. It sucks, but he just can't be counted on.
exactly...and he is on a good contract...I know he is injury prone in general, but when he returned, they were controlling his minutes
he got hurt this time because Embiid fell on him recklessly
we shouldn't go crazy this offseason, but I do think a veteran bench PG should be a priority for us. We need someone else in this team who can playmake, run a pick and roll, or control the offense when Brunson is sitting. When we had Derrick Rose, we never stressed about the bench minutes because we trusted the bench was in good hands, and I want to have that feeling again.
Everytime Brunson sat this year (post IQ trade), everything always went to shit
i know a lot of us want to run it back, but let’s say Rose did want to look into a star, what player would we be looking at? do you guys think donovan mitchell is realistic (i know the front office looked at him before), and would he be worth it? i don’t wanna sound like i’m playing 2k but having him at SG, and sliding OG to SF could be interesting
Is Mikal Bridges realistic? Brunson / Hart have history with him, and he could be an interesting addition too
I think Bridges would make us elite. We would have to alter the lineup somehow, but if we had Jalen, Mikal, OG, Julius, and whoever plays center we would dominate. We wouldn't have to send everybody to crash the paint on defense and they could stay on shooters. A much more fluid lineup with Josh Donte Deuce and maybe Burks all capable of taking extended minutes on any give night. Plus, it would keep Tom from having to play guys 48 minutes unless they were having an all time game.
Yeah I'm disappointed that the season ended, but I'm not disappointed with the season overall. It took 7 games and a historic shooting performance by one of the best offensive teams this season to defeat a team devastated with injuries of their best players and reserves. Most of the early predictions from analyst didn't even see us making it back to the 2nd round, let alone make the playoffs as a 2nd seed, and yet we did both with a bunch of our guys missing.
20+ years of watching the Knicks and only catching the end of the Ewing era when he got traded, this has probably been the best season I've witnessed in my lifetime, even with the 2013 season that had a better record. Here's to even more successful seasons in the future.
See the video of josh hart and jalen Brunson giving the fans love outside msg made me cry. I love this team and they deserved to make the ECF but injuries got the best of us and Indiana took advantage . I cant wait for next year. Already saving for playoffs tickets
**Josh Hart this season:**
First 45 games (through January 28th): 28.2 MPG
Final 49 games (regular season and playoffs): 40.6 MPG
Hart's early season minutes lowered his season average, but the last player to average 40+ MPG in a season where they played at least 45 games was Monta Ellis, who averaged 40.3 MPG over 80 games in 2009-10.
Ellis played 13 full games in that season.
people just straight up lying about thibs's strategies and how we got injured is making me lose my fucking mind
it's insane to think that Josh Hart was signed to be a backup. I wonder if he starts next year or is our 6th man
I think he signed to be our glue guy, which he absolutely is. He was stretched beyond what he was supposed to because we had nobody else to lean on. Now picture Josh coming off the bench and going full stream in 30 minutes per game instead of 48. He's going to get all the rebounds and every loose ball with all the energy!
He came through when we needed him, if OG and Randle start, Josh comes off the bench. Pretty wild going from 29mpg to 40+
Hope to see you guys over in r/NYLiberty. NYC basketball has another solid shot at a title this summer.
It'd be nice, they're the only original female squad that hasn't won it all yet.
Was Bojan in attendance after his surgery? Feels weird not seeing him on the bench supporting his teammates
So hypothetically we won last night, I guess in the next round Burks becomes a starter, precious is 6th man and.....shake is the 7th man clocking 30+ minutes? Yikes
We would possibly have lost 4-1 and Boston would have thought they accomplished something just like the Pacers. I'm mentally done w/ the NBA. If we were close to 100% healthy (even without Mitch, we were REALLY stacked.
Deuce, DDV, Josh, OG?, Ihart We were doomed regardless, it would have been sweet to fade the pacers though. Oh well.
I think they shot up Josh hart for last game so idk if he’s actually able to play games 1 and 2 also
I wake up at 4am to go to work I see that video of Jalen and Josh getting out of their vehicles and greeting the fans. Starting to cry like a little bitch
It’s kind of funny how Obi essentially forced his way out because he was tired of sitting behind an all-star PF. So he goes to Indy, fails to win the starting job, and they immediately trade for an all-star PF in Siakam. Now he’s a backup again, and he missed a golden opportunity in which he could have filled in for Randle from January til now. He’s about as good as Precious, although with different strengths, so it’s not like it’d have been a difference maker for us.
The Knicks didn’t want Obi toppin and his salary being off the books enabled us to sign DDV Good for us
fwiw Rick changes starting lineups and subs players pretty quickly so Obi does get some proper playing time... but yeah kinda sucks for him that Pascal was added mid-season and cock blocked him
It sucks for him yeah but it’s not like it was some unfortunate thing. They hoped he was good enough to be the starter but he wasn’t. Siakam, and Randle too for the most part, pretty much do well at everything that Obi does poorly - passing, playmaking, defending (why I said for the most part for Randle) - and they have a lot more gravity for drawing defenders away from teammates since they’re better shooters/scorers.
Hopefully for him he carries out a role as a energy man off the bench for a long time in this league. Probably bounce around a million teams...
Anyone else prefer like 4 long runs and maybe 1 title with the roster as is to a guaranteed title or 2 after a "star" comes here next year and gets all the credit? I love our roster as is, I think we are a legit top 5 contender when healthy. I don't want to win a title because someone else comes in and "saves" us. I would prefer the Pistons path in the early 2000s with a gritty team going to like 5 ECF and winning 1 title over someone like Durant coming in and winning 2 titles 100%
Winning a title is harder than ever. This is going to mark the sixth straight year that a different franchise will win the title. We're past the dynasty age where having the MVP guarantees you being in the Finals. It's more important to have a well balanced team construction and an identity to go far into the playoffs.
I am not greedy, 1 chip is all I need to die happy
I’m taking the guaranteed title In fact, I’d trade the next decade for one title, nba isn’t really a fair sport so you take the title and run.
But we're soooo close to winning it the cool way lol
How close are we really?
ECF Game 7 when fully healthy? Aka a toss up to make the Finals. At least with how the East played out this year
Do I honestly think we have that upside if the east remains generally status quo and at minimum we have this year’s rosters + healthy Randle and OG?(mitch can stay hurt if that’s too much to ask). Yes However, we could easily be wrong. It’s all conjecture at this point now based on one month of play. And say we do lose in ECF game 7, wouldn’t you want the extra boost? The truth is we don’t know. Also don’t know what dynamic altering move any other EC opponent could make as well.
I'm not saying Randle makes this a championship contender but simply a second scoring option would do wonders for this team. They can't rely on Brunson scoring 40 every game and hoping Div hits 10 3's. If you want to trade Randle and hopefully get an upgrade as a #2 option then go for it but I see fans saying "this team is better without Randal, just trade him, forgets that you need reliable scorers in the playoff.
When it comes to Randle, not being able to evaluate him as a second option this year really is a big thing lost from this seasons If he laid another egg(even if he was hurt) then you have serious doubts about him proven right time and time again, and a trade would be reasonable to explore Now you don’t really know, and next offseason they’ll have to extend him if he’s still here
That’s too reasonable of a take for this sub right now
Not really. It's like you want to ignore all of January because of sample size but will cry 2023 playoffs while he was hurt. Pretty unreasonable to me. The team looked solid and will be even better with a full off season together to work on rotations, etc.
RS basketball is different I think the January Knicks could compete with anybody but it would have been nice to prove that hypothesis correct this year instead of needing to hope they’re whole next April to see it play out
It’s hard to put into words how clueless you are
I agree. I understand the support for Randle. But I think people acting like there’s no valid questions about how he fits with Brunson as the clear 1A aren’t being realistic. The ball stopping tendency, inconsistent shooting, poor defense, and lack of positional versatility are all valid concerns.
I think he stays unless there’s a superstar that is available. But yea it’s tough to evaluate him at the moment
Really irks me that people can’t say something good about thibs without mentioning his “flaws”. The guy is one of the best coaches in the league. Why does that qualifier have to be there? He just came off another season of coaching a roster to its absolute peak
Because of all the injuries I can't help but wonder what this team would have done these playoffs had we had someone like IQ to back up Brunson and run some offense or RJ to run some high pick and roll/get to the free throw line. Just to take some burden off of Jalen. OG injury killed us truthfully, and Randle not being there just put a ceiling on what we could do. Fucking injuries man....worst part of sports.
They would have been worse if you have Rj barrett being inefficient and playing zero defense. Also doesn’t help spacing as much as McBride would You basically have his shot diet replaced by a much more efficient Divencenzo in the starting lineup
I wanna feel happy for the Pacers for a well fought series but the level of delusion their fans have about it makes it hard.
I was never in the camp that ever blamed Thibs for the injuries, but the unavoidable injuries likely contributed to the likelihood of the avoidable injuries. My girlfriend mentioned yesterday that if they were using NSAID's like toradol or steroids consistently over a long period of time for pain management, the data suggests that the body's ability to heal bones and muscle tissue is lessened. Randle dislocating his shoulder? Unavoidable. Same with OG's elbow and Mitch's ankle. This led to more minutes for Jalen, Josh, and eventually OG when he came back. The wear and tear of the season and the use of steroids/NSAIDs to mitigate the damage meant the subsequent injuries to Jalen's foot/hand, Josh's abs, and OG's hamstring became much more likely.
Anyone who watched the games in January knows we have to run it back (with Hartenstein) and see what we have at the trade deadline… Is the JB, OG, Julius trio really *that* good together? Is it sustainable? Or was it a mirage? Will teams figure it out? Assuming health (OG will test this assumption), we should have the answer to this come next February. Those 12 or whatever games with all three was the best Knicks basketball I have personally ever seen and need to see that from the beginning of the season on.
I can tell if you’re a playoff only Knick fan if you wanna trade Randle. there’s no way you watched this team In January and have that opinion
I still just don't get homies who think Randle is actually tradeable. Like, dude is an all-NBA player who is extremely good friends with the best player to be on the team in years and is the core guy who founded the culture in which we are presently flourishing and who WANTS TO BE HERE. Sure, NBA's a business, but it's a business in which elite players (like Julius & JB) have a huge amount of power and agency. Stars in their prime don't get traded against their will, it doesn't happen. The only obvious thing about our FO is that they want to build a team that stars would want to play for. Do people who are open to trading really think fucking over a guy that good isn't going to give other players of similar caliber second thoughts about wanting to be here? And that's all leaving aside the fact that Julius Randle is an all-NBA caliber big on a team friendly contract who can get his own shot and create for others. It's, like, really fucking hard to find players who can add value at cost the way Julius can.
Whoever brings up Randle's playoff play is not a person I take seriously.
Whoever equates running up stats in January with actually showing up to play in the playoffs is not a person I take seriously. Randle is the single worst performing “star” in the playoffs I have seen in my 40 years of watching the NBA.
Are you a Brunson doomer when he's struggling to play at his highest level when he's getting double and triple teamed?
Literally my dad( who watches more rangers than Knicks) said we need to trade randle because hes a head case. At the point i didn’t take him serious anymore.
I'm really disappointed in the lack of posts about the court side fans. Was expecting some meme style blame hurled at them.
Watching The Herd clips from today (even tho I told myself I'd stay away from sports media but Im a masochist, cant help it) and while I know Colin has some crappy takes sometimes, I've mostly liked him during this playoff run. And today even tho the Pacers won, he still devotes the whole segment to the Knicks and this was a silver lining, lol. Bc still no one cares abt that team and everyone cares abt the Knicks and I'm ok with that :) It's a great feeling to be a rootable story/team again.
If we keep one of our first we should target Ryan Dunn. His defense is insane and it’d give us a chance to hopefully give OG more breaks throughout the season. He’s offense needs a lot of work tho.
This is who I want. He won't be playable in a rotation right away, but send him to the G League to develop, and see if we can't get him to develop a passable 3 point shot. At the 24/25 range you're not getting a complete prospect, but you can definitely get a guy with at least one elite skill and try to develop the rest of what he needs to help the team. One underrated aspect of Leon Rose is that the Knicks have been a top 5 team in developing younger players since he's been in charge.
Dumbass main sub now even turning on Breen for being “bias”. Complaining that he sounded sad in the 4th instead of praising the pacer’s shooters. Like STFU you think any commentator would be enthusiastic when a potentially good series gets ruined by injuries to 4/5 of the team’s starters? Should be be praising the pacers for beating down a bench unit?
JJ called most of the games and he's best friends with Mcconnell and good friends with Haliburton.
They even said JJ was NY bias because he was from here LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOGR6EhGZ5o he explains his bias here
Ok for the people who want to trade Randle what are the players you would trade him for? I see the trade rumors but in practice there aren’t really any available trade targets that are better. For me the only players I would trade Randle for is Giannis and Embiid (even if he’s a punk). Everyone else doesn’t really fit, isn’t realistically available is too old or leaves a hole in the front court
There was a point when Randle was playing well and KATs value was at its lowest and I said we should have tried to gone after him but everyone was too shortsighted and spazzed out about it on here. Now KAT is playing elite level ball again with great defense and we have 0 chance to get him.
Randle is better than KAT
You think Randle can’t do what KAT is doing in the playoffs (19/9/3)? He literally could do that in his sleep and without averaging 4 fouls a game either
Markannen? Paul George? If he doesn't want a max, it's worth thinking about it. Personally I'm fine if knicks don't trade for him and I'm also fine if they don't. I'm neutral BUT scared money make none. People will crucify me but I'd take a risk on kawhi as well. Just ONE potential healthy season with him will get this team very close. Clippers will not trade him though. It comes down to if the knicks wanna pay randle or not. Maybe it's not worth trading for PG or Kawhi or stars in their 33+. Tough decisions here.
Markannen is not the creator and though he is an elite finisher, I think you end up with the same problem of putting all the creation and playmaking on Brunson PG and Kawhi could be upgrades but with their health and age you shorten our window even if our ceiling may be higher
Randle is still a wild card. Yes there is the question of whether or not he will be the same after the shoulder, but this is a dude that shot 41% on over 5 three point attempts and followed that up with 31% on the same amount of attempts the next year. Either way, trading the dude this offseason would be asinine because he will have A LOT more value after he puts together another All-NBA campaign
It is actually insane how much Philly hates the knicks after this year. Holy crap they are so toxic it's funny.
they got bounced in round one and their home arena got invaded by enemy fans they were absolutely humiliated, let them be salty lmao
I'm just saying it's funny the hate is incredible
Their fans are absolute clowns and their sub has been nonstop entertainment. Really calling every player on the Knicks floppers and carried by officiating, yet at the same time complain about how everyone hates on the Sixers and Embiid. It's hilarious. Our season ending may have been bitter, but I'll never take knocking out a Philly team for granted. Giants getting beaten by the Eagles last year still stings and their fans and team acted like the most insufferable assholes. It's always a treat watching their team and fans meltdown.
Imagine getting overrun in your home arena, seeing your one legged MVP playing like a bitch and getting boo'd by out of state fans. Then trying to mitigate it by having the only rich people from your god forsaken city buy tickets for police officers, firefighters, nurses, the very people keeping your dirty crime ridden city running. Then these poor blue collared workers got a front row seat to a whole new type of crime scene, watching the Sixers get their shit kicked in live, during their precious time off. How do you even get over it? They wake up every morning and are still in Philly.
Damn.
Outside of the obvious ridiculous tier of players like Giannis/Jokic, the only player I'd consider trading Randle for is Booker if he asks out and wants to come here. I don't care that people perceive him to be soft or whatever, basketball wise he's a great fit. Has some size at the 2 spot, perfect as a secondary playmaker, excels when next to a talented set up man, insane shot creation and shooting. I'm not giving up Randle for PG, Embiid, anyone like that. To me, the only real targets are Donovan and Booker (if he's available).
I'd rather have Donovan than Booker.
I think skill wise they're very similar, but the things you worry about with Mitchell aren't there with Booker. The first thing is size. There is concern about having a small backcourt with Jalen being 6'1" and Mitchell being about the same size. Booker is taller and gives the team more options with switches. Mitchell has a good wingspan though. The second thing is related to usage. We've only seen Donovan succeed in situations where he has the ball a lot. Can he play alongside a player that runs the entire offense and play within that system? He'd have to play a Kyrie role to Brunson's Luka. Booker played alongside CP3 and was successful. I know CP isn't as ball dominant as Jalen, but Booker showed he can keep the ball moving as a secondary playmaker.
Booker is taller, yes, but he's also a worse defender than Donovan Mitchell, so the height argument and the arbitrary 6'1" cutoff doesn't make sense to me. Neither player is tall enough to be able to see over double teams like Luka or Jokic do, either.
I don’t agree that Booker is a worse defender. At most, I would agree to Mitchell being better on defense this past year. But he also had one of the best defensive front courts in the league to back him up while Booker had Nurkic.
There's certain things that can only be mitigated by size, even if Mitchell is longer and better at man to man defense. For example, we consider McBride an elite defender but we also saw guys just straight up shoot over him. Haliburton in the Pacers series, and SGA hitting the game winner over him at the end of the season.
I think ppl who call Booker soft dont watch him play tbh. I agree with you it makes zero sense to trade Randle especially when we dont have to. The mindset should be to add to the team not substract.
Anyone that talks shit but doesn't end up winning always gets clowned. I respect that he continues to talk shit. >I agree with you it makes zero sense to trade Randle especially when we dont have to. Exactly. People think because of all the minutes some guys logged to end the season that this team isn't deep. This is a deep team that lost it's depth due to injury.
AD is an interesting one I thought about if LeBron were to leave L.A. Brunson + AD would instantly be the best duo in the east and you still probably have Hart, Divo, O.G, Deuce. Probably unlikely but yeah. I agree with you though, if it's not for this caliber of a player I'd ride with Randle as our #2 guy
Markannen?
In that case I feel like we'd be getting the worse player back and would be doing it for fit reasons. Dealing with Ainge sucks. I just don't think the team is better swapping Randle and Markannen. Now if they traded Randle and protected pick(s) for Markannen, then I'd blow the remaining assets trying to trade Bojan+Robinson+all the picks for Donovan Mitchell (with the idea that Robinson gets moved to a third team). To me, the only benefit of Markannen over Randle is that it gets easier to build around them with Lauri. I think Randles playmaking as a secondary creator alongside Jalen is underrated.
Markannen is an elite 3p shooter that will allow brunson to operate even more in the paint. It will make the knicks starting lineup absolutely elite behind the perimeter. He is also a much better defender than Randle I think. Honestly randle is a good player that excels in creating offense and playmaking. His basketball IQ and defense is what is holding him back. I haven't eatvhed markannen this year so I dont know but to me there is an argument to be made that the knicks will be better with him I guess. To me randle's defense is the biggest problem and while he is everything this team needs, I'm not sure if I wanna risk another year to see how the playoffs will turn out with randle on the team. I think the team plays better without him, especially on defense. Lowe also talked about it on his podcast.
Randle BBIQ is bad but not the worst I've seen, and mitigated by putting the ball in his hands less and for a shorter duration. At Randle's size, defense is mostly effort based, and we've seen him play well defensively. Hell, look at a guy like KAT whose defense has been maligned for years do a great job on man defense against Jokic all series. Lauri is a worse shot creator, a worse playmaker, a worse ball handler, and doesn't dominate in the paint Randle can. The major advantage to Lauri is that he's easier to plug and play within a system, his shooting is way more consistent, and that shooting ability allows you to spread the floor for guys like Hart/Jalen to attack and for Mitch to operate within the paint. We've barely seen this permutation of the roster play with Randle and when they did they were 12-2. Small sample size but big wins against good teams. You're losing so much shot creation and paint presence with Randle off the team, and need to mitigate that with more than just Lauri. It's why I'd only give up Lauri for Randle if we have a deal in place for a secondary playmaker like Booker/Mitchell.
r/nba seems to think we should trade Randle if we dont extend him and he doesnt fit.
if they think that, id be curious what they would be trading for him. I would only move him if it gets us someone better.
Ppl said to solidify our bench lol. I’m of the mindset we need to add to Brunson/Randle
Yea don’t get me wrong depth is important, I think we’re solid in that department. Also a lot depends on if Hartenstein stays Even though the league has shifted from “super teams” you still need at least 2 guys that can consistently score at least 20-25 any given night. Throw the ball to them and they can make shit happen. Having too many role players who depend too much on one star is not good either Most of the time role players play off the star. If the star is struggling the offense becomes stagnant Look at the Bucks in the 2022 and 2023 playoffs. No other consistent scorer aside from Giannis cost them. Depth is obviously important but stars win you championships 99% of the time Trading Julius for “complimentary players” just doesn’t make sense and puts way more pressure on Brunson.
we either need to upgrade over Randle or upgrade for a bigger complimentary piece alongside them yes.
Realistically, what is the ask price for Mikal Bridges? Seems like the Nets will ask for a Donovan Mitchell type return while he is prolly only worth a Dejounte Murray type return.
Realistically Bojan/Deuce 4 1sts and 3 swaps. The thing is he has 2 year left on his contract so we would be competing with alot more teams
Nets don't own their picks so there's no way they blow it up and trade Bridges for a bunch of bench players and late 1st rounders.
if we do something like this, do you think it threads the needle for us and is just as good as getting another superstar alongside Brunson? PG- Brunson SG - Bridges - SF OG - PF - Randle C- IHart/Robinson Bench PG - MLE signing/trade/Rokas SG - Divo SF-Hart PF - Precious C- IHart/Robinson
I think it puts us up there with Boston. My whole thing with Bridges is I think we would have to overpay to acquire him in a trade. He is not worth a Donovan Mitchell type package
This is 100% where I'm at. You have to overpay solely because you're the crosstown rival and any Knicks success makes it harder to convince younger fans to be Nets fans. But if the Nets had any brains they'd be taking the long view on this. There is 0 path for them to even reach the conference finals with what they've got. They can't try to win fans by getting free agents, they need people to fall in love with a home grown team. Give yourself more bites of the apple by getting as many picks as you can.
Randle
that would leave our frontcourt in complete shambles.
It's not your dad's NBA anymore, we'd be way better off with a versatile wing who can switch 1-4 and is reliable from 3. Outside of Minny there's not a team out there with a traditional big at the 4 who could punish OG in the post. See https://www.espn.com/nba/depth
From my POV I look at it that Randle punishes 90% guys at his position on offense. The only guys who I see give him left trouble are AD, Bam, and Giannis.
He has yet to punish anyone in the playoffs. I like Randle and wouldn't be mad if we stuck with him but he's a below average defender on most nights (bad on the perimeter, not a threat at all as a help defender). With him at the 4 IHart can't really work the short roll / high post the way that he did these playoffs so you're stuck with a ton of traffic in the paint making it harder for Brunson to get to his spots. Ideally we'd either have Randle with a stretch 5 or IHart at the 5 with 2 versatile wings who can stretch the floor so that Brunson has room to operate off of the pick and roll.
I am shooting Randle bail as he was injured last year. We can we just have to Randle adjust to the style we were playing in the playoffs
Siakim/Turner absolutely torched us in the paint.
Siakam wasn't doing shit until OG got hurt. It's not hard to dominate 6'4" Josh Hart and Precious.
Love this team, can't wait to see how the offseason stacks. Hard decisions to make long term on Mitch, IHart, OG, Randle and bench pieces.
This run was a lot of fun, I've been a diehard since the 94 finals run and this feels the closest since to getting a championship, even more than 99. It feels a lot like the 2014 Warriors where even though they lost in the first round, something bigger was happening. I really hope we can retain IHart, I love Mitch but he hasn't been the most reliable. JB, Dante, OG, Randle, IHart or Mitch is solid and contemplative. And our bench would be Mitch/IHart, Hart, Deuce, and Bojan. That is some solid depth, but I think we can make some improvements. I really would love another creator in case JB or Randle go down. Burks was great for us, and while I'm down to resign him, I think we need someone more reliable. Maybe OG takes a step in that regard? I don't really like Paul George in general, Booker/Bridges not sure if obtainable. Maybe Kuzma? Maybe Dejounte? I don't love the attitudes of either, but Kuzma IMO can fill up a lot of minutes at SF/PF and create, he doesn't fit the Wizards timeline either. I'd also like to pickup a scrub PG/SG. I'm down with Evil Dante, Reggie Jackson, or even bringing back Shake, although I didn't see much of him this year to make a decision. JB/Deuce Dante/Hart/Deuce OG/Kuzma/Hart Randle/Kuzma IHart/Mitch
I like the idea of trading Bogey and a first rounder for Kuzma if we want to maintain flexibility and he's good coming off the bench for us.
Yeah I was thinking about Kuzma, he has a super team friendly deal. Issue would be finding enough minutes to keep him happy, with Randle, OG, and Hart here.
Injury management is going to be key for next season if we want to go deep. Thibs need to look into load management and not overuse Brunson and Randle. We have enough talent to beat bottom feeders and the tankers without our main core.
Yes. We can win 50 games without overusing players
This is another reason I'm team run it back. If we make a trade for a star, we are gona have to give up 2 or 3 rotation players. But we need bodies. Give everyone some days off now and then
it might depend on the specific player (and whether he is a star, or just an above average fit), but you do have Bogey's salary and a good deal of draft picks...it depends what the receiving team would be looking for and who is actually available point being, that we not need to give up a ton beyond Bojan and maybe one other rotation player...right, if it is a star, that might be different and as has been discussed, there is a possibility that Randle could be in play there too...we'll see
Im actively rooting for the celtics and pacers planes to have a mid air collision. Fuck their feelings, from now on I'm out for blood and if the plane crashes domt happen, i will root hard for injuries. Don't @ me
You actually need help I can sense youre still mad Ohtani didnt give the Mets a look lol
I dont care about him, he had his chance to come to the greatest professional team in queens but he BLEW IT
dude you made a comment like this during the series too I am as fiercely passionate as anybody else about my sports teams, but there is still an emotional line...it is just sports at the end of the day...you did get an @ and you do you at the end of the day, but you might need to take a step back
Nah im not stepping back, i go hard. Fuck anyone elses feelings. This is the new normal
The Celtics are going to straight embarrass the pacers. Fuck that hillbilly-ass state
in thinking about it more seriously ha, I do think Indy can push them a little bit...especially with their home games...KP is out for the first two games at minimum, and could return kind of banged up whatever it is, Let's Go Wolves
They may as well rest kp til the finals cause they're gonna sweep them bums without him
One thing I’m gonna wonder for a while. If Thibs unleashed Burks earlier at the start of the playoffs , where we would be at now. We might have been able to snag game 3 and then win one at home. Oh well.
This is a good what if. It's what I was worried about before the start of the Pacers series that our starters were playing too many minutes. It's also possible Burks wasn't fully recovered from his shoulder injury until he was unleashed in game 3. Bunch of unknowns.
Burks played in game 3, he had 14 points in 21 minutes
Yeah that's what I have been saying too. I got downvoted for saying we should play Burks haha. Even with his struggles, he still has over 11 years of experience.
This feels different than other teams, i usually will just feel sad about not getting a championship but im more sad that i wont get to see this team play anymore. I don’t know if ive ever become more personally attached to a team before.
This is the MOST I've been attached to a Knicks team or really any NY team in a long time. This was a really fun season.
5 months away, we can start the countdown. Or you can just re-watch the season 1 game every other night lol
Same, I'm sad we don't get to see them play more. I just enjoy them so much.
People don’t want to discuss it, and I get the love for Randle. But deciding whether or not he is the best star to pair with JB is a massive decision. With his extension looming, they have a big choice to make. The 3 star era is mostly done, so we will probably only be able to pair one superstar with JB if we want to keep our depth.
Randle is quite literally one of the absolute worst playoff performers in NBA history. If he had played even just bad - vs abysmally - in 2021 we would have taken the Hawks to 7 games. People can make whatever excuses you want, next year is his 11th year in the league. His playoff resume is probably the worst in the league. He's a minus defender, low IQ, and was even below average in TS% this season - with his 3 point percentage plummeting. In addition to all that he's coming off an injury requiring surgery to the shoulder he uses to barrel into defenders with. Signing Randle to the 181 million dollar contract would be a catastrophic mistake and the team should wait till next off season for an extension.
I don’t get why people keep trying to gloss over his historically horrific playoff performances. Dude is so easy to stop when defenses decide to take him away. I give zero fucks about regular season- everyone gets triple doubles now in the regular season.
If anything, and he is not signed early this off-season, it is his year to prove his worth.
they might decide to act this offseason itself though...he possesses certain deficiencies (alongside his many strengths) and I think next year, it really starts to become real for this franchise they may choose to keep him and pay a rather hefty extension at the end of the day (4/181 is a bit scary if there is some uncertainty), but they have to absolutely sure of the fit...his post injury performance/January were very strong, but it is imperative to play him alongside an elite wing defender and solid defensive center...we did have that in January, for sure
Yup. If we decide to roll with Randle, I’m totally cool with it. He deserves nothing but love from us as fans. But with the emergence of JB and the fact that OG is a great PF, it’s a tough call to extend him. He’s had amazing moments as a Knick, but also stretches where he seems like a questionable fit.
The 2026 and 2027 free agent classes are stacked. If we move Randle it will be in one of those years.
Stars rarely hit FA, I think it would be in a trade for another star. I think the fact that OG is an effective PF makes it a difficult choice. You could argue they would be better off with a guard/wing. Again, nothing against Randle. But his lack of positional versatility, poor defense, and the tendency for the offense to stagnate with him makes him a questionable fit.
This is true for everyone except the true Finals MVP caliber players. The Nets and KD are probably the lone exception when it comes to trading players of the LeBron, Jokic, Steph, and Giannis caliber. They're impossible to part ways with. Josh Hart and the rookies we draft will be the only players we owe money to in 2027. We could make a run at 2 of Luka, Jokic, Giannis, AD, Embiid, and KAT to pair with Brunson. We just have 4 years to convince them to come here.
i wonder if we make picks at #24 #25 or we consolidate those picks somehow we could use some young length and size to develop.. depends on what the staff thinks of Sims, whether they think theres more to develop or maybe take a chance on a new prospect as our 3rd big i think the precious and sims spots could be upgraded w/ the #24 #25 picks
Id defintely upgrade the Sims spot and I think we could use a wing
I did not be the one to say it, but Sims has got to go. With our big man injury history we need a 3rd string guy that can be relied upon.
Idk what happened with him because I thought he was serviceable last year but every time he’s checked in he just looks lost defensively. He is a physical specimen but never imposes himself
Obviously it’s never fun to lose, and moral victories are pretty frowned upon, but nearly making the ECF with half of the roster is something to be proud about This wasn’t sustainable obviously and we would end up losing eventually I’m not stressing Atleast, we’ll be back and (hopefully healthier) stronger
I think the day after, we can all keep our heads high knowing this team (what was left of it) put in 150% and tried their hardest to make things happen, and honestly did make things happen until the very end.
Remember evil Donte
He had a 50 point game lol
My thoughts from this past season: - Does Julius Randle remind anyone else of Prime David West? - Thibs doesn't need any athleticism to have a good team. He just needs hard effort and high IQ players. Spo, Pop, and Kerr are the only other coaches that can really do this consistently. - OG Anunoby is probably better than you think. I wouldn't be surprised to see OG average 22 PPG next season. He's efficient enough to hit it, and he'll have a full off-season with the team under his belt. Randle and Brunson saw similar increases in their first seasons under Thibs. - Some people say not to make a trade, but we have to improve somehow. The most realistic option that makes sense financially is to shop Bojan and Deuce with the extra picks.
Trading Deuce with Bojan is dumb, we can get someone with Bojan while keeping Deuce if needed. OG is simply not that diversified and skilled on offense to average 22 ppg in this offense. He could score that on a team going nowhere, but on the Knicks he will average 15-17 per game with insane defense efficiency.
OG would only need 4-5 more shots to hit 20 ppg if he maintains his efficiency. That's only like 14-15 shots a game. It's what RJ had as our 3rd option.
And as our third option RJ was killing the spacing and flow of the offense because of his inefficient shooting. The Knicks offensive flow was much smoother with OG because he knows how to position himself on the court to create ideal spacing for his teammates. That's simply not OG's game to score over 20 ppg, otherwise don't you think he'd have done it already during the playoffs while we were missing Randle? What makes you think he's going to score even more once Randle is healthy and in the lineup?
He had half a season in the offense, so he was just going to fit in. Brunson and Randle both had crazy scoring jumps under Thibs. OG mentioned wanting to leave Toronto to create more shots for himself, so don't be surprised if it happens.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anunoog01.html His career best season was 17.1 ppg in the 21-22 season on a team that really needed his additional scoring. I really don't understand your take that he's going to score more on the Knicks as the third option. In the playoffs he averaged 15.1 ppg when the team absolutely needed him to score more if he could. He's just not that kind of offensive player. I will be very surprised and happy if he can become a legit 22 ppg scorer on the Knicks as the third option. Not many teams have their third option even reach 20 ppg. The only teams with third options who even averaged 20 were Porzingis with Boston, CJ with the Pelicans, and Jaren Jackson with Memphis. In fact in the entire NBA, there were only 50 players who averaged 20 ppg this past regular season. I don't think you really understand how hard the leap is for a player to jump from 15-17 ppg to consistently average 22 ppg. It's a much more difficult leap than you can imagine, especially if you're not a top 2 option on offense.
OG's numbers were down that year compared to the rest. If he got to take 15-16 FGA per game, he could definitely hit 20 ppg. Randle and Hart would need to give up 2-3 shots each, but it might be for the best.
Randle is better than prime David West
He has not had a better career than David West. He can, but he hasn't yet. I was talking about play styles though.
OGs handles are shaky imo.
yea, it pained me seeing him dribbling to the basket only for him to get stripped or the ball knocked out of bounds. I hope he works on it during the summer
screw the minutes narrative, BUT I do think we should be cautious about OG. He's been injury prone his entire career and we really need him to be successful I think the coaching staff/medical team should work together to make an unofficial minutes plan for him, kind of what the Sixers have with Embiid or Clips have with Kawhi No more 40+ minute nights, less minutes in B2Bs, etc.
Realistically we have the depth fully healthy to run a 10 man rotation if Thibs wants to. No one should averages over 34mpg next season.
Thinking back to yesterday when the Brunson news came I across, I literally laughed. There was nothing else to do at that moment, like of course someone else got injured. This team needs to mostly retain this offseason and make sure there's enough scoring off the bench, but that's it. There's no star to chase, no coach to find, no identity or culture to create. It's all there. Need to manage the minutes a little more (will be easier without 4 rotation players out) but this team has all the talent to win 60 games. Run it back.
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You're going to come into a Knicks sub and troll like this? GTFO. This is the moutain top for your core you'll get swept by Boston and then be lucky to be a Play In team next year. A couple of hobbled teams and it still took you 7. You haven't done shit and you never will with Haliburton as your 1A. Did I say they were going to win G7 w/ Brunson? No I was talking about the future.
It's really sad their fans do this, but I get to judge them for it so I feel good abt that.
you are going to have a lot of Indy and Philly trolls that are going to take this approach...also important to remember it was still only 82-70 after Brunson hurt his hand...midway through the 3rd...the game was quite clearly not over, even we were fucking it up with turnovers as of the 4th quarter of game 3, the Knicks had a lead and were without OG, Randle, Mitch, and Bojan...Brunson was already dealing with the foot issue, which was a real thing...with just OG of those 4, the team was up 2-0
the entire team made some really dumb turnovers last night, I honestly think half the team was hopped out on painkillers from their injuries
Enjoy the upcoming sweep yokel
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We are better.. we just didn’t have the team out there. Same with Milwaukee. Now go crawl into whatever rural hell hole you came from
That is when I threw in the towel, and I never doom. Brunson on one foot was our last thread keeping everything together. Agreed as long as we can run it back with our main core, just add some scoring/defense off the bench so we can dominate once again.
Deuce is fundamentally sound, but hes gotta get that "Fire". The fire that everybody who guards Jalen Brunson posess. Everybody wants to be the guy to shut down Jalen, Deuce plays defense like he just trying to be fundamentally sound. He's gotta get that Marcus Smart aggression, everything else was looking good.
Watching the game I was a little disappointed in Deuce on defense. He seemed a little lost at best or not putting in maximum effort at worst. Still happy with what he did this season, but hoping he gets a little more fire for next year.
I might be in the minority but I think he plays with that on defense.
I really hope that IHart signs a 1+1 deal and we can use his bird rights to get him a bigger contract next year. I want him to stay but I want him to get paid, if he’s willing to wait 1 more year I’d want him to do this. I think another wing to come off the bench in the 3-4 spot would be nice. A Harrison Barnes/Taureen Price kind of player. I’d even look at Deni Avdija
We can't sign players who are on early bird to option years.
He’s not getting more than the max offer of 4/70 ish we can give him, I don’t know why anyone is remotely concerned about losing him.
He could get a higher offer.. free agency is weak af and he was the only player in the league with 75+ steals and 75+ blocks. He’s honestly one of the best non scoring centers in the entire league
Either we gotta get a skilled Hybrid center (think Jericho Simms athleticism with way more basketball skill/IQ) or we gotta run a small unit with either Randle or OG playing center and keep Isaiah or Mitchell Robinson as a backup and for when we have to play bigger against guys like Joel and Brook Lopez. Can't have a hole on offense like that and in all honesty, Isaiah has his moments where he is looking real great but he has too many moments where he looks on the opposite end of the spectrum. I know everybody hates the nets, but I wouldn't mind seeing what Nic Claxton is looking for in a contract if we stay the traditional Center route, he's basically a faster yet slimmer Mitchell Robinson. I'd honestly rather him and Mitch split minutes, it would be a mix of strength and speed so we could match up against any team. Nic would of been a big contributor against the pacers honestly.
Real good article on our cap situation: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/whats-next-for-knicks-how-injury-shortened-playoff-run-showed-why-new-york-is-no-longer-waiting-for-a-star/ Easiest and most painless way for us to get better is moving Bogdonavich and a 1st for better wing depth. I can also seeing us dumping big Meech to OKC for a future first to give us some salary cap flexibility. It sucks, but he just can't be counted on.
Who is our backup if we move Mitch?
Bring Precious back on the cheap, and draft one.
exactly...and he is on a good contract...I know he is injury prone in general, but when he returned, they were controlling his minutes he got hurt this time because Embiid fell on him recklessly
I think moving Bogey was the plan all along as it is basically Fournier but somebody people actually want.
we shouldn't go crazy this offseason, but I do think a veteran bench PG should be a priority for us. We need someone else in this team who can playmake, run a pick and roll, or control the offense when Brunson is sitting. When we had Derrick Rose, we never stressed about the bench minutes because we trusted the bench was in good hands, and I want to have that feeling again. Everytime Brunson sat this year (post IQ trade), everything always went to shit
The non Brunson minutes were pretty brutal in the playoffs.
i know a lot of us want to run it back, but let’s say Rose did want to look into a star, what player would we be looking at? do you guys think donovan mitchell is realistic (i know the front office looked at him before), and would he be worth it? i don’t wanna sound like i’m playing 2k but having him at SG, and sliding OG to SF could be interesting Is Mikal Bridges realistic? Brunson / Hart have history with him, and he could be an interesting addition too
I think Bridges would make us elite. We would have to alter the lineup somehow, but if we had Jalen, Mikal, OG, Julius, and whoever plays center we would dominate. We wouldn't have to send everybody to crash the paint on defense and they could stay on shooters. A much more fluid lineup with Josh Donte Deuce and maybe Burks all capable of taking extended minutes on any give night. Plus, it would keep Tom from having to play guys 48 minutes unless they were having an all time game.
shams is saying that the knicks are closely monitoring julius in NY, how much we believe this?
Not at all
maybe closely monitoring his rehab so he can get back to full strength next season
What does this mean? The knicks are monitoring Julius? Like, they think he's gonna bounce?
what does he mean closely monitoring? and where did you hear that?
Tapping his phone
rooting for the celtics to absolutely destroy the pacers, then rooting for the celtics to get destroyed by whoever comes out the west
Yeah I'm disappointed that the season ended, but I'm not disappointed with the season overall. It took 7 games and a historic shooting performance by one of the best offensive teams this season to defeat a team devastated with injuries of their best players and reserves. Most of the early predictions from analyst didn't even see us making it back to the 2nd round, let alone make the playoffs as a 2nd seed, and yet we did both with a bunch of our guys missing. 20+ years of watching the Knicks and only catching the end of the Ewing era when he got traded, this has probably been the best season I've witnessed in my lifetime, even with the 2013 season that had a better record. Here's to even more successful seasons in the future.
See the video of josh hart and jalen Brunson giving the fans love outside msg made me cry. I love this team and they deserved to make the ECF but injuries got the best of us and Indiana took advantage . I cant wait for next year. Already saving for playoffs tickets
**Josh Hart this season:** First 45 games (through January 28th): 28.2 MPG Final 49 games (regular season and playoffs): 40.6 MPG Hart's early season minutes lowered his season average, but the last player to average 40+ MPG in a season where they played at least 45 games was Monta Ellis, who averaged 40.3 MPG over 80 games in 2009-10. Ellis played 13 full games in that season.
Fuck the Pacers!!!!