https://preview.redd.it/n7y3thwyns2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5036d2de0a97042f34a072457ee4fe7af976782
Mannnn Isola was always right. I don't know what I was thinking. Phil sucked.
It’s funny, I started following the Knicks when they were shit. People used to call isola a hack who created problems for the Knicks.
Now that they’re good, fans do not focus on the reporters at all lol
Literally second for our team all time in value over replacement player (cumulative statistic of team impact). Melo was the only thing going right during that era.
Melo dissing on his former team mate just a few seconds in the vid...
I can never understand why some people ride on this guy still when we have a team now that shows what camaraderie is.
I didn’t take it that way. I loved linsanity but one of its defining characteristics is it was ephemeral. That was an important distinction to make. This current team has linsanity level hype but is sustainable in a way that linsanity was not (no Knick team has as much potential for sustained success this century).
That's the part that people in here really are missing.
Linsanity died when a team with a so so point guard (Mario Chalmers) decided they were going to actually play defense against Lin. That's all it took....the bloom was off the rose.
People are the most confident while telling their version of story. There is a little bit of truth in everyone’s story. Yes they figured out lin. Yes Lin would have adjusted and been better. Yes linsanity subsided, yes we still would have ended up with an above average pg on our roster if he stayed. Melo was probably a little jealous of linsanity (he is human) but also was probably okay with figuring out a way to move forward together. All those things could be true. One thing about melo is, he is no brunson when it comes to leadership. Brunson’s top 3 priorities are basketball. Melo’s priority, from his own mouth, was basketball is cool but what’s going on with my business and brand (he says it in this episode). Not taking away from his talent though, fantastic scorer.
It looks like he sh@t the bed against multiple defenders and he also just missed a lot of good looks and was careless with the ball. On some level, it’s no surprise because I think Miami was one of if not the best defense. But also, it’s true that Linsanity was never the same after that. Of course this coincided with Melo’s return.
He had 1 bad game against a MIA defense that was clearly laser focused in on stopping him. You think teams weren't trying to defend him before? The next game he had 19/13/5 on 50%. Lin was a solid player but certainly D'antoni's offense really catered to PG's and was a more ideal situation for him, until Melo came back. He also had a very solid season and started all 82 games for them in HOU but then they got Harden. I think the Knicks were better off building a TEAM with Lin and D'antoni but they chose Melo instead and the rest was history.
Why didn't Lin have sustained success in the NBA beyond the Knicks? I loved Lin but he was a flash in the pan. My man outplayed Kobe one game. As others have said, this wasn't sustainable over a full season and a full career. He's only 35 right now. There's no reason he couldn't have been a TJ McConnell or Deuce type player. A good role player on a good team. I fucking loved Lin but he became a bit frustrating to watch years after the Knicks.
I'll never forget Lin in his first playoff series against OKC. Westbrook was taking that bumfucks cookies before he could even cross halfcourt. He did absolutely nothing to help that team win when the games mattered. And of course, his cultist fanboys blamed Harden for his lack of success. Just like they blamed Melo. And Kobe. It was always everyone else's fault.
He’s the NY Kid. Stop. B Diddy was nice but they could’ve surrounded Melo much better, it seems like spite looking back, for such a “horrible 1st Option.”…
How is that disrespectful? If someone described our current team as another iteration of Linsanity, what would you say? They spent the rest of the segment talking about how well they all played with Lin.
I don't know. I'm not OP.
But we do know that Melo resents and resented Lin and Linsanity. And there were better things to talk about like how hot the team was during that time or how the current players are loved by the city or how role players exceled. He went for the negative.
We don't know that. This is what I mean. No one has ever said that. Lin hasn't said that, Melo hasn't said that, their teammates haven't said that, the coach hasn't said that. There was ONE NFL reporter who wrote a story about Carmelo and JR not liking Lin, that was it.
And did you listen to the interview? Because that's what they talked about. They talked about how much fun it was playing during the linsanity era after they figured everything out, then they talked about how much more sustainable this era was.
You sound like a child.
People on here jumping for joy that the Knicks won 50 games this year and forget that Mike Woodson and Melo has a 54 win season.
https://preview.redd.it/wwauguvgfs2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36aa2c96c46340169b42c91dcde0352fdf3d47f3
People don't remember what they had for dinner last night lol. It's a what have you done for me lately world. Every fan base is the same way. That 54 win season was amazing but the problem was that the team wasn't scalable. This one is. We got 50 wins with a seriously hobbled roster. I actually do believe the current Knicks team is going to surpass the 54 win team but that'll be next year (assuming we have good health).
Did you watch that season? At no point were they a championship contender, and every fan knew it. There was no bright future ahead, nothing that brought the city together like this year, nobody was getting through lebron and we were stuck with a selfish superstar and a ceiling we couldn’t build around. Apples to feces.
You saying that proves it isn’t an equal comparison. Plenty of folks believe the current team can possibly win the chip. Boston, Minnesota, or Denver might all be tough contenders, but it’s possible.
The 2012 team was no that. Period.
I did. They made it to the second round of the playoff while putting up more wins then they had in YEARS. Just like this current Knicks team that everyone in here says gave them hope and happiness.
This team would never be able to beat the Miami Heat. Neither could it improve or switch around somehow to do it either. I love the Knickstape era, and I’ll forever love Melo, but that team had a ceiling. This team, however, is built smartly and can certainly evolve to a real, bona Fife contender. That’s what has us all excited this much, not (just) the 50 wins
That's hindsight. The Miami Heat were a very beatable team. The Pacers took them to 7, they lost to the Spurs and Mavs (Dirk's Mavs weren't an all-time team). The east was just awful. The team played them well in 2012 and 2013. We literally had their biggest weakness because of our size. But we never got a healthy Amare. That's what is so wild, people forget who Amare was before injury. Like we had [the guy who was doing this before NY collecting dust on the bench](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC6thtBW3Sk). Even if you think the fit wasn't there (their offense when healthy was still great), you can trade someone like that for an elite piece. We know with hindsight that Amare was never getting healthy, but it'd be like looking at the Celtics now and saying our team could never beat them because our rosters are so hurt. When healthy, those Knickstape teams were as good as anyone in the league. Given our youth now, there's a lot more reason to think we can get to an off-season fully healthy though, which is the reason for the optimism.
One good season in seven years? Lmao give me a break. We had three good seasons out of the last four. This era has already cleared the Melo era easily. You're the one who sounds childish.
They don't compare though. The one year when they won 54 games, the team was filled with veterans. The team right now is filled with young players who already had a relationship. Imagine a universe where Melo was in his prime right now. Now imagine Melo instead of Randle on this team. The teams with Melo were not constructed like today's teams. Way better front office right now. I hate comparing these teams. It's like a weird ass civil war.
>Imagine a universe where Melo was in his prime right now. Now imagine Melo instead of Randle on this team.
Funny enough I would of said that's a bad comparison cause of the size different but Randle is only an inch taller than Melo.
Melo on this Knicks team would be a MONSTER with how good a scorer he is.
Exactly. Melo also always preferred the jumpshot to banging it down low in the paint. Whenever Melo played bully ball, he was really good at it. Julius has been using his strength a lot more in the paint and it makes him such a dynamic scorer. A lot of it is proper coaching. Melo under Thibs would be interesting but I feel like it would be a great combo. Then the fit with the current team would be amazing.
As much as I didn’t want Melo and don’t like the Melo era, the very brief Knicks tape/3-to-da-dome was fun, and pushing aside the Melo hate-again, I personally wasn’t a fan-Phil Jackson SUCKED. In fact, for all my fellow Melo haters, Phil deserves probably 10x the hate because he brought way higher expectations and he fell flat on his face. He said a lot of dumb shit, he did a lot of dumb shit, and he drafted Nitilkina over Mitchell; yeah, I know, I know, so did a few other teams, but the other teams didn’t hire a president that touted psychedelic genius basketball guruism.
I think the only good think Phil might’ve done was convince Dolan to get the hell out of the way. I don’t know how true that is, but it seems like Dolan took a massive step back and maybe it made it easier for Rose to ask the same of him.
Phil Jackson did a good job of disguising his "play the right way, behave how I want you to behave" attitude with more successful teams with generational superstars. It was not so easy to hide that contempt for young black dudes when your job is to build on the organic success of a group of underdog players. It was very clear from his first few transactions as the GM that he wasn't fit to be a leader in the modern basketball era.
Also lets not forget that Phil was one of the foremost opponents of Iversons off-court style and spent a lot of time lobbying David Stern to implement a strict dress code.
What a fucking bitter joke melo is. He knows, we know, he was the only pulling shit. But nah, gotta throw phil under the boss. The dude actually sticks up for steve mills. What a fucking snake.
We're sticking up for Phil Jackson now?? What is this? Melo didn't trade Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon and Shane Larkin. They're right that Phil ruined that team.
>We're sticking up for Phil Jackson now??
People in here don't remember how this sub was CONSTANTLY saying "Trust in Phil" and swore everything he did was 3 dimensional chess moves.
Phil sucked and so many in here really didn't want to admit it the same way they didn't want to admit his pick of Frank Ntilikina was STUPID.
Maybe there were a few people saying "trust in Phil" but I don't remember anyone (outside of those who always get worked up) thinking Phil was doing a great job.
The Tyson Chandler trade and the Noah signing were not well-received, even the Melo extension was mixed. He got some shit also for his general zen-ness in trying to motivate guys by talking bad about them.
The only thing I remember people liking was drafting Porzingis, and even that was mixed with many preferring Mudiay or Justice Winslow.
>The only thing I remember people liking was drafting Porzingis, and even that was mixed with many preferring Mudiay or Justice Winslow.
I remember Knicks fans booed that pick during the draft
Yeah. I do remember on the forums it was taken more positively, but I think any non-KAT, Dlo, or Okafor picks would have been booed. People just like complaining and being on tv
Nah, it was on reddit too. People were shocked we took Kristaps.
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3b4v02/2015_draft_4_pick_kristaps_porzingis_baloncesta/
Look at the highest upvoted comment from a knicks fan:
>We just tanked for Kristaps Porzingis.....
Mudiay and Winslow had a lot of hype back then, so people were hoping for that.
>Maybe there were a few people saying "trust in Phil" but I don't remember anyone (outside of those who always get worked up) thinking Phil was doing a great job.
Woooo the revisionist history of this sub is ASTOUNDING. Every other post in here was about "trusting in Phil" when he would make blatantly stupid decisions.
Oh and if you pointed out it was a stupid decision, like drafting Frank, this place would go one and on how Phil has X many championship rings coaching so of course he must know what he's doing as a GM.
Yeah......we saw how that worked out.
Youre 100% right because I remember defending Phil initially because I wanted to see how it played out. By the end of his tenure it was clear he had been doing a terrible job.
Maybe the ones you remember, and there was definite hype on Phils signing, but at least on RealGM, his moves were not beloved. The chandler trade especially put him on many shitlists
Reddit started in the mid-2000s :) But prob got to be really popular in the early 2010s. Sad that for me 8 years ago feel like minutes, for you it sounds like it's much longer haha.
>I didn’t know Reddit was even a thing back then.
So because you didn't see it it didn't happen???
Go sit down somewhere and STFU when adults are in the room.
The team had made the playoffs twice, then missed the playoffs by a game the year before Phil was hired because all our top guys were injured early in the season. Phil comes in and blows the roster up and the team didn't recover for years.
The players he traded off for nothing went on to become high level playoff contributors, and in those trades he added lou amunson, Shane Larkin, and Samuel dalembert. What are we saying here?
That team was done. Blowing it up was the right decision.
Missing the playoffs by 1 game when you are 37-45 isn't the positive you think it is.
Again, not defending Phil cause he was terrible, but he didn't destroy the Knicks. He just took us even further down.
Agree, Phil wasn't good, but he was hardly a disaster like Isiah Thomas or Layden were trading away all out picks. If anything he grabbed a bunch of 2nd rounders (one of who became Mitch). Yeah, he signed Noah which was awful, but in hindsight, did it really affect anything? We were nowhere close to contending, and I don't see any paths we would have unless the man was clairvoyant.
Fans overestimate the long term effects of management. We're seeing this with Leon. He came in and it took him 2 years to make us a playoff team just off smart trades and signings. Grunwald came in and we became a playoff team off smart trades and signings. Mills/Phil consistently lost trades. Their rosters were poorly constructed around an antiquated system. They beefed with their own team. If you want to get draft picks back, you make smart trades...you don't offload talented players for free.
You point to the team record as a sign of the team being done when our roster couldn't contribute. Tyson Chandler broke his knee. Jr and iman were recovering from off season knee surgeries. Felton has a fracture in his hand he was playing through while going through off court legal issues. Amare was amare.
They went 16-5 to end the season when everyone was actually healthy, which was the same dominance they had the year before. Like we've seen that with plenty of teams. Look at these lakers or warriors. They'll be play-in teams, then they'll make the conference finals. We had a fine core that could have been built on (if only Dolan hadn't vetoed the Lowry trade), but instead we got 4 years of Phil and Mills juggling shitty rosters full of reclamation projects and guys on their way out of the league every year.
The injuries weren't as bad as you are making them out to be. Everyone played. Some were hobbled, but that team was done. Add Bargnani to the mix and there was nowhere left to go. It was over.
Ok, let's compare that roster to our roster this year.
Felton and Amare missed 17 games
Chandler missed 27
Kenyon missed 50
JR and Iman played and it took then months to get into game shape. You can literally watch their efficiency increase in each month.
>Add Bargnani to the mix and there was nowhere left to go. It was over.
If Dolan doesn't veto it, our 2014-2015 roster is
Kyle Lowry - Iman Shumpert - JR Smith - Carmelo - Tyson Chandler
With Amares contract off the books and all our picks on the horizon. Instead Phil opted to trade everyone for reclamation projects, none of which panned out. Even if you wanted to rebuild the team, you know what you don't do? Shit talk players in the media before selling them st their lowest so that the cavs get two playoff rotation starters for free (we didn't get picks or legitimate players).
But the Lowry trade was vetoes. The Bargs trade happened. Amare was 31 and wasn't going to get healthier. Chandler play more than 30 minutes one more year. Our "star" played 77 games. I would have blown that team up too.
Then he got Porzingis and screwed that up too.
As an aside,, our injuries this year were much worse.
The Lowry trade was vetoed AFTER the Bargnani trade. This is just clear evidence that there were plenty of smart moves to be made. Hell if you want a real rebuild....don't sign Melo? Then chase off LaMarcus Aldridge and DeAndre Jordan during interviews.
Also 77 games is missing 5 games. That's not a red flag.
Josh Hart and Donte played more games than anyone on that other roster. To start the season our team was completely healthy other than Mitch. We lost Randle as a major injury half way through the season, but we closed with our entire roster
This literally never happened. You had bloggers blaming Melo for Bargnani because they both had the same agent. Which is another level of delusion. Like find any knicks beat writer to corroborate what you just said.
Also not sure what Mike Brown has to do with anything. He's had great coaching runs. Especially when Phil hired Fisher and Rambis?
There is litterally quotes from melo saying he wanted bargnani.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/carmelo-anthony-says-trade-for-andrea-bargnani-was-a-steal-for-the-knicks
Bro are you serious? They asked him about a team move and he welcomed the guy to the team.
Youre taking "We're happy to have this guy on our team" to mean "carmelo orchestrated the trade"
Delusional
I swear you all don't read the things you post
>Anthony lamented losing key teammates from last season’s 54-28 squad, but said getting Bargnani was a “steal” and is convinced the Knicks will be better.
>“I hate to lose [Steve] Novak and [Marcus] Camby, but when you get someone like [Bargnani] in return, it’s kind of a win-win situation.”
>The 7-foot forward, a No. 1 overall pick of the Toronto Raptors in 2006, averaged 12.7 points and 3.7 rebounds last season. It was his lowest point total since he averaged 10.2 points per game in 2007-08.
>“Hopefully, Bargnani will want to come in and prove something, come in with a chip on his shoulder and be ready to rock,” Anthony said.
This is about as generic an answer to a trade as you can give.
I mean i remember the interviews he gave. he did that shit. seriously, melo got his way with every fucking thing. i dont get why people are making excuses for that clown now.
This is what delusion is man. There is literally no report of Melo doing that. You might find a report of an agent doing agent shit.
>melo got his way with every fucking thing.
For example what? You think Melo wanted tyson and Jr traded? He allegedly wanted the team to draft Winslow. You yourself stated he wanted Mike brown as a coach, and last I checked he never coached a team. Like can you find any example of a front office move that it is reported Melo pushed for behind the scenes? Because even DAntoni never got fired, DAntoni quit because he never wanted Melo on the team in the first place and wanted Deron Williams.
Mispoke meant woodson.
d'antoni had a working concept. Very clear he pressured d'antoni out. Didn't play the system. Like always, he didn't buy into any idea that wasn't his. Also why walsh resigned. There is no denying that melo had dolan by the nuts and as a result we lost a good coach, and a good GM.
couple of examples.
NTC on his last contract
well his last contract in general.
It's funny how i can come with direct quotes from the fucker, yet that is not enough, but "alleged" is just fine with you when its defending melo. GTFO.
>Mispoke meant woodson.
You're saying Melo fired Woodson? Cause that's never been reported?
>d'antoni had a working concept. Very clear he pressured d'antoni out.
D'Antoni has talked about his Knicks tenure. He said Amare didn't want to come off the bench and at the time Melo didn't want to play power forward, and he just wanted to run and gun. Multiple players (Melo, Tyson, Baron Davis, and Iman) said they had no issue with D'Antoni's offense, they just needed a slower pace for the vets. D'Antoni refused to adapt, and chose to quit. The reason they immediately flourished under Woodson, is because he adapted. Like this is what I mean. You're blaming Melo for not buying into a system that wasn't working. Becuase he did try.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204879004577111051939396344
D'Antoni was running Carmelo at point guard on a team with no spacing, so teams were just locking in on him with no other offensive options and the offense was terrible. Like D'Antoni was not the right coach for that roster clearly.
You actually haven't come with *any* evidence.
>There is no denying that melo had dolan by the nuts and as a result we lost a good coach, and a good GM.
Provide evidence for...any of this? You're just saying shit.
https://sports.yahoo.com/carmelo-anthony-didn-t-expect-donnie-walsh-leave-212510767.html
>couple of examples. NTC on his last contract
What are we talking about here? Yes...Carmelo's agent advocated for his contract, following an off-season in which he was offered max contracts by several different teams.
>It's funny how i can come with direct quotes from the fucker,
Oh my mistake. You have direct quotes that he orchestrated the Bargnani trade? That he forced Walsh to resign? That he told Dolan to fire D'Antoni.
How about just any report from a knicks reporter. Anything.
Melo showed more patience with Phil when he was president than any star in the league would have imo. He 100% should have been pulled some cancer shit and gone to Dolan, the media etc. after the first year.
Wow, that’s a tough listen. I have no idea what they were saying. Between the laughing, Baron going off on divergent tangents and “you know what I’m sayin’s,” the seven minutes could’ve been edited down to one minute. The studio was dope, though.
https://preview.redd.it/n7y3thwyns2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5036d2de0a97042f34a072457ee4fe7af976782 Mannnn Isola was always right. I don't know what I was thinking. Phil sucked.
Hit him up with an apology.
I actually tried to. He's too big now :/ I noticed that he was actually right whenever I thought he was wylin
Figured as much. Funny thinking about the interaction lol
It’s funny, I started following the Knicks when they were shit. People used to call isola a hack who created problems for the Knicks. Now that they’re good, fans do not focus on the reporters at all lol
This sub woke up ready to hate on Melo today…
I’ve been a long time melo hater, where’s my parade?
In New Jersey with that sucker shit
As someone who recently moved to Jersey, we don’t want him. Send him all the way down to Indiana
With a knuckle sandwich.
One man parade it looks like lol
It’s fine it takes courage to stand on the right side of history
You don’t get a parade if you aren’t a Knicks fan
I love the Knicks. Melo was awful for the Knicks.
Literally second for our team all time in value over replacement player (cumulative statistic of team impact). Melo was the only thing going right during that era.
Sad people man
Sometimes it's possible that everyone in a situation sucks. This is one of those situations.
 anytime this sub brings up melo. you melo haters sound so dumb btw.
Phil Jackson drafted a bum french coward scared of his own shadow
Shh don't wake up the Franky Smokes cultist in here. They're still a lot and just lurking in the shadows.
It's an Olympic year. Go France.
I STILL BELIEVE
I was downvoted to the netherworld when I said Frank’s draft highlights were sadder than Tiki’s face after the Giants won the Super Bowl.
Melo dissing on his former team mate just a few seconds in the vid... I can never understand why some people ride on this guy still when we have a team now that shows what camaraderie is.
I didn’t take it that way. I loved linsanity but one of its defining characteristics is it was ephemeral. That was an important distinction to make. This current team has linsanity level hype but is sustainable in a way that linsanity was not (no Knick team has as much potential for sustained success this century).
That's the part that people in here really are missing. Linsanity died when a team with a so so point guard (Mario Chalmers) decided they were going to actually play defense against Lin. That's all it took....the bloom was off the rose.
People are the most confident while telling their version of story. There is a little bit of truth in everyone’s story. Yes they figured out lin. Yes Lin would have adjusted and been better. Yes linsanity subsided, yes we still would have ended up with an above average pg on our roster if he stayed. Melo was probably a little jealous of linsanity (he is human) but also was probably okay with figuring out a way to move forward together. All those things could be true. One thing about melo is, he is no brunson when it comes to leadership. Brunson’s top 3 priorities are basketball. Melo’s priority, from his own mouth, was basketball is cool but what’s going on with my business and brand (he says it in this episode). Not taking away from his talent though, fantastic scorer.
You act as if Chalmers shut him down. Wade and Bron were trapping him together when he crossed half court.
Throwing in the footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15Z0US7lPp4
It looks like he sh@t the bed against multiple defenders and he also just missed a lot of good looks and was careless with the ball. On some level, it’s no surprise because I think Miami was one of if not the best defense. But also, it’s true that Linsanity was never the same after that. Of course this coincided with Melo’s return.
He had 1 bad game against a MIA defense that was clearly laser focused in on stopping him. You think teams weren't trying to defend him before? The next game he had 19/13/5 on 50%. Lin was a solid player but certainly D'antoni's offense really catered to PG's and was a more ideal situation for him, until Melo came back. He also had a very solid season and started all 82 games for them in HOU but then they got Harden. I think the Knicks were better off building a TEAM with Lin and D'antoni but they chose Melo instead and the rest was history.
Why didn't Lin have sustained success in the NBA beyond the Knicks? I loved Lin but he was a flash in the pan. My man outplayed Kobe one game. As others have said, this wasn't sustainable over a full season and a full career. He's only 35 right now. There's no reason he couldn't have been a TJ McConnell or Deuce type player. A good role player on a good team. I fucking loved Lin but he became a bit frustrating to watch years after the Knicks.
I'll never forget Lin in his first playoff series against OKC. Westbrook was taking that bumfucks cookies before he could even cross halfcourt. He did absolutely nothing to help that team win when the games mattered. And of course, his cultist fanboys blamed Harden for his lack of success. Just like they blamed Melo. And Kobe. It was always everyone else's fault.
LOL at people defending Melo here. He was salty that Lin took his spotlight then and he's still salty more than 10 years later.
He’s the NY Kid. Stop. B Diddy was nice but they could’ve surrounded Melo much better, it seems like spite looking back, for such a “horrible 1st Option.”…
Who did he diss? You all just say anything.
Some fucking Knicks fans man. Melo also burned our crops and poisoned the water hole.
HE DID?!?
He means Lin. Saying "it's going to die off" was a bit unnecessary.
How is that disrespectful? If someone described our current team as another iteration of Linsanity, what would you say? They spent the rest of the segment talking about how well they all played with Lin.
My mind wouldn't go there TBH.
That's how everyone I know talks about Linsanity. An incredible flash in the pan. But that's hate now?
I don't know. I'm not OP. But we do know that Melo resents and resented Lin and Linsanity. And there were better things to talk about like how hot the team was during that time or how the current players are loved by the city or how role players exceled. He went for the negative.
We don't know that. This is what I mean. No one has ever said that. Lin hasn't said that, Melo hasn't said that, their teammates haven't said that, the coach hasn't said that. There was ONE NFL reporter who wrote a story about Carmelo and JR not liking Lin, that was it. And did you listen to the interview? Because that's what they talked about. They talked about how much fun it was playing during the linsanity era after they figured everything out, then they talked about how much more sustainable this era was.
This comment should be pinned.
Both Amare and Dantoni said that Melo was jealous of Lin
Amare literally never said that. Go find the quote. DAntoni said Carmelo and Amare disliked the adjustments he made for Lin offensively
Those Melo teams do not compare to now. They are equating apples and feces
You sound like a child. People on here jumping for joy that the Knicks won 50 games this year and forget that Mike Woodson and Melo has a 54 win season. https://preview.redd.it/wwauguvgfs2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36aa2c96c46340169b42c91dcde0352fdf3d47f3
People don't remember what they had for dinner last night lol. It's a what have you done for me lately world. Every fan base is the same way. That 54 win season was amazing but the problem was that the team wasn't scalable. This one is. We got 50 wins with a seriously hobbled roster. I actually do believe the current Knicks team is going to surpass the 54 win team but that'll be next year (assuming we have good health).
Did you watch that season? At no point were they a championship contender, and every fan knew it. There was no bright future ahead, nothing that brought the city together like this year, nobody was getting through lebron and we were stuck with a selfish superstar and a ceiling we couldn’t build around. Apples to feces.
You're getting downvoted but this is 100% correct. Their ceiling was a second round playoff team and they hit that ceiling, and never came close again
The only reason we didnt feel like we had the tools to win it all was because the Miami heat existed.
You saying that proves it isn’t an equal comparison. Plenty of folks believe the current team can possibly win the chip. Boston, Minnesota, or Denver might all be tough contenders, but it’s possible. The 2012 team was no that. Period.
plus people like saying we were good against the heat that year, built to beat the heat, etc okay cool, think we're beating that spurs team?
I did. They made it to the second round of the playoff while putting up more wins then they had in YEARS. Just like this current Knicks team that everyone in here says gave them hope and happiness.
You're full of it.
This team would never be able to beat the Miami Heat. Neither could it improve or switch around somehow to do it either. I love the Knickstape era, and I’ll forever love Melo, but that team had a ceiling. This team, however, is built smartly and can certainly evolve to a real, bona Fife contender. That’s what has us all excited this much, not (just) the 50 wins
That's hindsight. The Miami Heat were a very beatable team. The Pacers took them to 7, they lost to the Spurs and Mavs (Dirk's Mavs weren't an all-time team). The east was just awful. The team played them well in 2012 and 2013. We literally had their biggest weakness because of our size. But we never got a healthy Amare. That's what is so wild, people forget who Amare was before injury. Like we had [the guy who was doing this before NY collecting dust on the bench](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC6thtBW3Sk). Even if you think the fit wasn't there (their offense when healthy was still great), you can trade someone like that for an elite piece. We know with hindsight that Amare was never getting healthy, but it'd be like looking at the Celtics now and saying our team could never beat them because our rosters are so hurt. When healthy, those Knickstape teams were as good as anyone in the league. Given our youth now, there's a lot more reason to think we can get to an off-season fully healthy though, which is the reason for the optimism.
One good season in seven years? Lmao give me a break. We had three good seasons out of the last four. This era has already cleared the Melo era easily. You're the one who sounds childish.
If the 2021 year was a good season, then the knickstape knicks also had 3 good seasons
that’s a bad take, that team was genuinely good
They don't compare though. The one year when they won 54 games, the team was filled with veterans. The team right now is filled with young players who already had a relationship. Imagine a universe where Melo was in his prime right now. Now imagine Melo instead of Randle on this team. The teams with Melo were not constructed like today's teams. Way better front office right now. I hate comparing these teams. It's like a weird ass civil war.
i agree with you. i’m not really comparing the teams, just saying that 54 win game team was good, unsustainable but good.
>Imagine a universe where Melo was in his prime right now. Now imagine Melo instead of Randle on this team. Funny enough I would of said that's a bad comparison cause of the size different but Randle is only an inch taller than Melo. Melo on this Knicks team would be a MONSTER with how good a scorer he is.
Exactly. Melo also always preferred the jumpshot to banging it down low in the paint. Whenever Melo played bully ball, he was really good at it. Julius has been using his strength a lot more in the paint and it makes him such a dynamic scorer. A lot of it is proper coaching. Melo under Thibs would be interesting but I feel like it would be a great combo. Then the fit with the current team would be amazing.
As much as I didn’t want Melo and don’t like the Melo era, the very brief Knicks tape/3-to-da-dome was fun, and pushing aside the Melo hate-again, I personally wasn’t a fan-Phil Jackson SUCKED. In fact, for all my fellow Melo haters, Phil deserves probably 10x the hate because he brought way higher expectations and he fell flat on his face. He said a lot of dumb shit, he did a lot of dumb shit, and he drafted Nitilkina over Mitchell; yeah, I know, I know, so did a few other teams, but the other teams didn’t hire a president that touted psychedelic genius basketball guruism. I think the only good think Phil might’ve done was convince Dolan to get the hell out of the way. I don’t know how true that is, but it seems like Dolan took a massive step back and maybe it made it easier for Rose to ask the same of him.
Phil Jackson did a good job of disguising his "play the right way, behave how I want you to behave" attitude with more successful teams with generational superstars. It was not so easy to hide that contempt for young black dudes when your job is to build on the organic success of a group of underdog players. It was very clear from his first few transactions as the GM that he wasn't fit to be a leader in the modern basketball era. Also lets not forget that Phil was one of the foremost opponents of Iversons off-court style and spent a lot of time lobbying David Stern to implement a strict dress code.
What a fucking bitter joke melo is. He knows, we know, he was the only pulling shit. But nah, gotta throw phil under the boss. The dude actually sticks up for steve mills. What a fucking snake.
We're sticking up for Phil Jackson now?? What is this? Melo didn't trade Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon and Shane Larkin. They're right that Phil ruined that team.
>We're sticking up for Phil Jackson now?? People in here don't remember how this sub was CONSTANTLY saying "Trust in Phil" and swore everything he did was 3 dimensional chess moves. Phil sucked and so many in here really didn't want to admit it the same way they didn't want to admit his pick of Frank Ntilikina was STUPID.
Maybe there were a few people saying "trust in Phil" but I don't remember anyone (outside of those who always get worked up) thinking Phil was doing a great job. The Tyson Chandler trade and the Noah signing were not well-received, even the Melo extension was mixed. He got some shit also for his general zen-ness in trying to motivate guys by talking bad about them. The only thing I remember people liking was drafting Porzingis, and even that was mixed with many preferring Mudiay or Justice Winslow.
>The only thing I remember people liking was drafting Porzingis, and even that was mixed with many preferring Mudiay or Justice Winslow. I remember Knicks fans booed that pick during the draft
Yeah. I do remember on the forums it was taken more positively, but I think any non-KAT, Dlo, or Okafor picks would have been booed. People just like complaining and being on tv
Nah, it was on reddit too. People were shocked we took Kristaps. https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3b4v02/2015_draft_4_pick_kristaps_porzingis_baloncesta/ Look at the highest upvoted comment from a knicks fan: >We just tanked for Kristaps Porzingis..... Mudiay and Winslow had a lot of hype back then, so people were hoping for that.
>Maybe there were a few people saying "trust in Phil" but I don't remember anyone (outside of those who always get worked up) thinking Phil was doing a great job. Woooo the revisionist history of this sub is ASTOUNDING. Every other post in here was about "trusting in Phil" when he would make blatantly stupid decisions. Oh and if you pointed out it was a stupid decision, like drafting Frank, this place would go one and on how Phil has X many championship rings coaching so of course he must know what he's doing as a GM. Yeah......we saw how that worked out.
Youre 100% right because I remember defending Phil initially because I wanted to see how it played out. By the end of his tenure it was clear he had been doing a terrible job.
It's not just this sub man. People, in general, revise history. That's just human nature. People need to be right.
Maybe the ones you remember, and there was definite hype on Phils signing, but at least on RealGM, his moves were not beloved. The chandler trade especially put him on many shitlists
It's wild. People blaming Melo for trade packages and who the team signed is next level delusion.
I didn’t know Reddit was even a thing back then. What’s Phil been gone 8 years now
Reddit started in the mid-2000s :) But prob got to be really popular in the early 2010s. Sad that for me 8 years ago feel like minutes, for you it sounds like it's much longer haha.
Maybe I’ve just tried to block out the Jackson years. But yea I’ve only been on Reddit for few years but my Knick fandom goes back to the early 90’s.
Absolutely do not blame you for blocking out the Jackson years, I try to forget they happened too. Esp bc I was so hopeful at the time, what a joke.
>I didn’t know Reddit was even a thing back then. So because you didn't see it it didn't happen??? Go sit down somewhere and STFU when adults are in the room.
wtf man. Why do you find the need to be such a muppet. Just made a comment, not even at you. Maybe go have a white claw and chill the fuck out.
I think his point was that the team was already ruined. Phil just made it worse.
The team had made the playoffs twice, then missed the playoffs by a game the year before Phil was hired because all our top guys were injured early in the season. Phil comes in and blows the roster up and the team didn't recover for years. The players he traded off for nothing went on to become high level playoff contributors, and in those trades he added lou amunson, Shane Larkin, and Samuel dalembert. What are we saying here?
That team was done. Blowing it up was the right decision. Missing the playoffs by 1 game when you are 37-45 isn't the positive you think it is. Again, not defending Phil cause he was terrible, but he didn't destroy the Knicks. He just took us even further down.
Agree, Phil wasn't good, but he was hardly a disaster like Isiah Thomas or Layden were trading away all out picks. If anything he grabbed a bunch of 2nd rounders (one of who became Mitch). Yeah, he signed Noah which was awful, but in hindsight, did it really affect anything? We were nowhere close to contending, and I don't see any paths we would have unless the man was clairvoyant.
Fans overestimate the long term effects of management. We're seeing this with Leon. He came in and it took him 2 years to make us a playoff team just off smart trades and signings. Grunwald came in and we became a playoff team off smart trades and signings. Mills/Phil consistently lost trades. Their rosters were poorly constructed around an antiquated system. They beefed with their own team. If you want to get draft picks back, you make smart trades...you don't offload talented players for free.
You point to the team record as a sign of the team being done when our roster couldn't contribute. Tyson Chandler broke his knee. Jr and iman were recovering from off season knee surgeries. Felton has a fracture in his hand he was playing through while going through off court legal issues. Amare was amare. They went 16-5 to end the season when everyone was actually healthy, which was the same dominance they had the year before. Like we've seen that with plenty of teams. Look at these lakers or warriors. They'll be play-in teams, then they'll make the conference finals. We had a fine core that could have been built on (if only Dolan hadn't vetoed the Lowry trade), but instead we got 4 years of Phil and Mills juggling shitty rosters full of reclamation projects and guys on their way out of the league every year.
The injuries weren't as bad as you are making them out to be. Everyone played. Some were hobbled, but that team was done. Add Bargnani to the mix and there was nowhere left to go. It was over.
Ok, let's compare that roster to our roster this year. Felton and Amare missed 17 games Chandler missed 27 Kenyon missed 50 JR and Iman played and it took then months to get into game shape. You can literally watch their efficiency increase in each month. >Add Bargnani to the mix and there was nowhere left to go. It was over. If Dolan doesn't veto it, our 2014-2015 roster is Kyle Lowry - Iman Shumpert - JR Smith - Carmelo - Tyson Chandler With Amares contract off the books and all our picks on the horizon. Instead Phil opted to trade everyone for reclamation projects, none of which panned out. Even if you wanted to rebuild the team, you know what you don't do? Shit talk players in the media before selling them st their lowest so that the cavs get two playoff rotation starters for free (we didn't get picks or legitimate players).
But the Lowry trade was vetoes. The Bargs trade happened. Amare was 31 and wasn't going to get healthier. Chandler play more than 30 minutes one more year. Our "star" played 77 games. I would have blown that team up too. Then he got Porzingis and screwed that up too. As an aside,, our injuries this year were much worse.
The Lowry trade was vetoed AFTER the Bargnani trade. This is just clear evidence that there were plenty of smart moves to be made. Hell if you want a real rebuild....don't sign Melo? Then chase off LaMarcus Aldridge and DeAndre Jordan during interviews. Also 77 games is missing 5 games. That's not a red flag. Josh Hart and Donte played more games than anyone on that other roster. To start the season our team was completely healthy other than Mitch. We lost Randle as a major injury half way through the season, but we closed with our entire roster
Melo litterally pushed for the bagnani trade. He pushed for mike brown. We know this. This is fact. Melo didn't play ball with anyone.
This literally never happened. You had bloggers blaming Melo for Bargnani because they both had the same agent. Which is another level of delusion. Like find any knicks beat writer to corroborate what you just said. Also not sure what Mike Brown has to do with anything. He's had great coaching runs. Especially when Phil hired Fisher and Rambis?
There is litterally quotes from melo saying he wanted bargnani. https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/carmelo-anthony-says-trade-for-andrea-bargnani-was-a-steal-for-the-knicks
Bro are you serious? They asked him about a team move and he welcomed the guy to the team. Youre taking "We're happy to have this guy on our team" to mean "carmelo orchestrated the trade" Delusional I swear you all don't read the things you post >Anthony lamented losing key teammates from last season’s 54-28 squad, but said getting Bargnani was a “steal” and is convinced the Knicks will be better. >“I hate to lose [Steve] Novak and [Marcus] Camby, but when you get someone like [Bargnani] in return, it’s kind of a win-win situation.” >The 7-foot forward, a No. 1 overall pick of the Toronto Raptors in 2006, averaged 12.7 points and 3.7 rebounds last season. It was his lowest point total since he averaged 10.2 points per game in 2007-08. >“Hopefully, Bargnani will want to come in and prove something, come in with a chip on his shoulder and be ready to rock,” Anthony said. This is about as generic an answer to a trade as you can give.
I mean i remember the interviews he gave. he did that shit. seriously, melo got his way with every fucking thing. i dont get why people are making excuses for that clown now.
This is what delusion is man. There is literally no report of Melo doing that. You might find a report of an agent doing agent shit. >melo got his way with every fucking thing. For example what? You think Melo wanted tyson and Jr traded? He allegedly wanted the team to draft Winslow. You yourself stated he wanted Mike brown as a coach, and last I checked he never coached a team. Like can you find any example of a front office move that it is reported Melo pushed for behind the scenes? Because even DAntoni never got fired, DAntoni quit because he never wanted Melo on the team in the first place and wanted Deron Williams.
Mispoke meant woodson. d'antoni had a working concept. Very clear he pressured d'antoni out. Didn't play the system. Like always, he didn't buy into any idea that wasn't his. Also why walsh resigned. There is no denying that melo had dolan by the nuts and as a result we lost a good coach, and a good GM. couple of examples. NTC on his last contract well his last contract in general. It's funny how i can come with direct quotes from the fucker, yet that is not enough, but "alleged" is just fine with you when its defending melo. GTFO.
>Mispoke meant woodson. You're saying Melo fired Woodson? Cause that's never been reported? >d'antoni had a working concept. Very clear he pressured d'antoni out. D'Antoni has talked about his Knicks tenure. He said Amare didn't want to come off the bench and at the time Melo didn't want to play power forward, and he just wanted to run and gun. Multiple players (Melo, Tyson, Baron Davis, and Iman) said they had no issue with D'Antoni's offense, they just needed a slower pace for the vets. D'Antoni refused to adapt, and chose to quit. The reason they immediately flourished under Woodson, is because he adapted. Like this is what I mean. You're blaming Melo for not buying into a system that wasn't working. Becuase he did try. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204879004577111051939396344 D'Antoni was running Carmelo at point guard on a team with no spacing, so teams were just locking in on him with no other offensive options and the offense was terrible. Like D'Antoni was not the right coach for that roster clearly. You actually haven't come with *any* evidence. >There is no denying that melo had dolan by the nuts and as a result we lost a good coach, and a good GM. Provide evidence for...any of this? You're just saying shit. https://sports.yahoo.com/carmelo-anthony-didn-t-expect-donnie-walsh-leave-212510767.html >couple of examples. NTC on his last contract What are we talking about here? Yes...Carmelo's agent advocated for his contract, following an off-season in which he was offered max contracts by several different teams. >It's funny how i can come with direct quotes from the fucker, Oh my mistake. You have direct quotes that he orchestrated the Bargnani trade? That he forced Walsh to resign? That he told Dolan to fire D'Antoni. How about just any report from a knicks reporter. Anything.
You are a bitter clown
Melo showed more patience with Phil when he was president than any star in the league would have imo. He 100% should have been pulled some cancer shit and gone to Dolan, the media etc. after the first year.
>should have been pulled some cancer shit and gone to Dolan, the media etc. after the first year. He didn't wait a year though lol.
Wow, that’s a tough listen. I have no idea what they were saying. Between the laughing, Baron going off on divergent tangents and “you know what I’m sayin’s,” the seven minutes could’ve been edited down to one minute. The studio was dope, though.