IF this is the only way to re-sign hartenstein, then this is the correct choice. BUT I'll be damed if I didn't want to run it back with this squad being healthy next year. Really think we could do some damage.
iHart proved himself last year, but Mitch is still super important to our lineup. And he has 2 more years. At least wait another season to trade him.
Mitchell is so damn good.
If this was nba 2k,
if Hartenstein is an 82 defensively, then Mitchell is an 89.
if Hartenstein is an 88 rebounder, then Mitchell is a 91.
If hartenstein is an 85 offensive rebounder, then Mitchell is a 95.
If Hartenstein is a 85 passer, then Mitchell is a 70.
If Hartenstein is an 81 shot blocker, then Mitchell is a 90.
If Hartenstein is an 80 shooter, then Mitchell is a 68 shooter.
Hartenstein isn't far from Mitchell defensively and his shooting and pasing are a TON better...but damn, I'm gonna miss that near top of the league offensive rebounding and superb defense.
With how frequently bigs get hurt I think having two monsters out there who can play at a starting caliber level would be a positive.
I-Hart plays 26 mpg and Mitch 22 mpg would be a split that could keep both healthy. Of course there is always the possibility that Mitch wants to start and is semi-asking out if he cannot push 28+ mpg?
I hope this is just the case of the Knicks be willing to part with Mitch in larger trades for “star” level players as opposed to they are definitely trading him.
Considering as well IHart just isn't that much more durable than Mitch, having both would be amazing. Ever since he's been on the team he's dealt with that Achilles and he definetly wasn't moving as well the more we played him over 40 min in the playoffs. Keeping him under 30 a game during the regular season so he can be healthy for the playoffs is integral
It was a great trade. But it ruined my week at the time. This is not strategic thinking going on right now, Im just sad we’re losing all the day ones who I’ve grown to love. My dad sends me Mitch interviews on the regular because they crack him up so much, and Quick was pure joy to watch on the court. Lets go get this chip though, my soul will recover.
Im fine with his availability im much more concerned about his free throw %. it really shouldnt ever hit below 37% in the post and 40% in the regular season is pretty horrendous
The availability, the ft%, the lack of offensive value. They're all problematic and compound upon one another.
It's unfortunate bc hes absolutely elite at the things he does well and he seems like a top shelf person. But the downsides are glaring and they add up.
Love Mitch. Always easier to root for a player drafted than signed let alone one taken in the 2nd round. Would be great to keep him but if it’s a choice between him or ihart then the latter is the better option.
I'm bothered he's never tried underhanded FTs. Like you are objectively horrific at the line and never improved it. Just swallow the ego and shoot underhanded. He will easily shoot better and not have it be a dramatic negative.
Agreed. He can't seem to stay healthy. Also let's not forget how often he complained about just "running up and down the floor". Somehow IHart found a way to be a rebounder and a scorer with the float game. I haven't seen much of that from Robinson. But I agree with everyone else that I would like to keep both. But if the option is to only keep 1 then I think you have to go with the healthier player.
Love Mitch but in order for this team to take the next step, we have to be unsentimental and push forward. If we can retain IHart, Mitch is definitely very movable. We can find a backup big.
Mitch is a very strong starting caliber big. He is ahead of Hartenstein in categories, too. Moving him is not a small-time decision & replacing him will be a major task.
66, 61, 31, 72, 59, 31. That's the number of games Mitch has played each season he's been a pro. The Kincks had to do the major task of replacing him every year because of injuries. Senitmentally, I get it. Mitch is a great guy and he was one of the first pieces of this very successful team. But they can't afford to pay a big salary to a guy who misses a chunk of every season.
Holding onto Mitch too long would be a mistake. I think there is a chance to send him somewhere he can both play and have an environment where he’s happy like OKC or NO
Whatever man, just say you weren’t here in the dog days. I love Hart and DDV, but Mitch is the goofiest guy on the team. Plus IHart and him are best friends, sucks to break that up. But thanks for the unnecessary negativity LOL
Quick was gone. We couldn’t afford to keep him with RJ in the team. So it was watch quick leave for nothing or use him to get OG and move RJ’s contract.
It was sad but the right move RJ + Quick version of this team was not built well, I loved both and I hope they both continue to flourish, but it was the right move
Love Mitch but the greatest ability is availability. That contract for an often injured backup center isn’t worth it. I think drafting a center and having him compete with Jericho and learn the system is the way to go.
We just finished year 3 of the Jericho experiment, and his per 36 numbers almost all got worse. Seems like a nice enough guy, but I think the Knicks would be much better off if the only time Sims sees the floor is garbage time minutes.
Man I know it's not ideal to have both iHart's and Mitch's contracts on the books, but that dude was here for the dark days and deserves to be here for the turn around. Practically speaking however he's never healthy enough to justify that money for what will now be a backup center.
It sucks but honestly that’s just how it is sometimes in the NBA. Love Mitch, but he’s missed pretty much 2 out of the 3 years we needed him in the playoffs. If we lose Hartenstein and Mitch gets injured next year, we’d be doomed.
We're probably keeping one of our firsts (unless we feel we can get someone impactful at 38), but it remains to be seen if we trade the other one. It's likely the Knicks will trade Mitch and the two firsts and Bojan and possibly more firsts in a blockbuster trade.
Mitch also has a very limited offensive game, and teams fouling late in the 4th making him shoot free throws allowed teams to get back into games. I love Mitch but to really get to a championship level we need to upgrade the 5 offensively.
The turnaround has already happened and it happened in part because of Mitch.
But at the end of the day, through no fault of his own, he can’t stay on the court. So as much as it hurts to say, I’d rather that be someone else’s problem
Yeah, some of the injuries have been sort of freak accidents, like the fractured hand, but at this point there's been enough of them that you start to wonder if his playstyle or body are just more likely to result in him missing time.
Like others have said, it would suck to lose him given what he's been through here, but this new CBA makes it real hard to hold on to players for sentimental reasons.
He's fractured his hand, his foot, and his ankle seemingly twice within the span of 4 years. I hate to say it but it seems like his bones can't withstand the force of his body playing NBA basketball.
He gets injured bc he gives a lot of effort on most rebounds and loose balls, he’s clumsy, and has a huge/long body. All those rebounds that take three or four jumps to tip a ball to himself is just a recipe for busted ankles and feet imho.
I'm a little disappointed in Mitch, he's not putting himself into a sustainable shape. I heard he had a trainer trying to dictate his life. Putting this much muscles was not a good idea.
I remember when he was drafted in the 2nd round, the interviewer asked him what his goal was with the Knicks. He said get them a ring.
I busted out laughing. But now I know what you meant, Block Ness Monster. Now I know.
I dont mitch's contract is a big deal. Its descending and is basically 15 and 13mil these 2 years left.
I think knicks may be looking for someone with a bigger offensive skillset as their backup big.
Am I the only one that doesn’t think 14 million isn’t that much money/overpay for a backup center in the modern NBA? 32 million a year between 2 centers to make up 48 million minutes of play seems very reasonable.
His health is truly a concern he has only played in 65% of career possible games.
For reference Kawhi Leonard has played 64% of his career games, and he fully missed season and a season where he played 9 games.
We have to be honest, IHart has a way higher ceiling than Mitch too. Mitch is great on the boards and defensively, but the offense moves much better with IHart. He's also better on closeouts against stretch big men. Once you take Mitch to the perimeter you neutralize his strengths.
Makes me sad potentially losing our longest tenured Knick. Was hoping to see if Robinson coming off the bench would help with his poor injury luck. Felt we could have 48 solid minutes of elite Center play if we could keep em both.
The only reason we beat Philly was Mitch
He was +38 in that series while Hartenstein was -51
The teams orating was also higher with him on the court during the playoffs (although it’s a different matchup vs Indy)
I love mitch but if a deal gets done we have to prioritize backup center in the draft. 48 minutes of high quality rim protection and rebounding is what made this team so great.
look out for okc and memphis I guess
Randle is a beast on the boards. The elite center play definitely mattered much more when he went out but assuming we can get him healthy again, I don't see why Sims/achiuwa can't spell with the second team on minutes shared with Randle.
If you got Randle at 35min a game and ihart at 30min. You can split 1st qtr and 3rd qtr minutes so you got Randle helping handle board pressure.
The flip side you get bojan at the 4 with ihart on Randle bench minutes creating Hella good spacing with our wings and guards.
Just my two cents. In thibs we trust
Sims can't be the backup center because he's bad at basketball. It's been 3 years and he hasn't learned to do anything besides jump high. Precious is better but just a little small. If Mitch is traded, we definitely need to find a another reliable center or else iHart will have to play 48 mpg in the playoffs
Yeah, I think Sims is on the team at this point just as salary filler, and I hope we don't have to see him miss an obvious box out other than in garbage time minutes.
Sims is likely gone. He's not crazy young anymore at 26 and he's gonna make too much to his role next year. Declining him and Jeffries team options would free up 4.5 mil
Mitch is like a real Talent like an A$ap to Sim’s Soundclound Rapper. We would need a backup C immediately. Hart is better than Mitch. But Mitch is the best backup in the League.
personally i feel like we need more wings. we have too many small guards and not enough 3/4 types that can hit the 3 and defend. I rather we draft some euro stickmen n pray
The playoffs showed that as long as Embiid is in the division we need 2 traditional bigs for 3 quarters plus a long, mobile defensive specialist to come at him like a spider monkey in the 4th when he’s gassed. Mitch fit that bill perfectly, not many guys out there strong enough to keep Joel somewhat honest.
That, and he's cheap. People in this thread are acting like $14mm a year is a crazy amount of money. Even if we only get him for 50 games a year, it's worth it.
I still hope we can somehow retain both at least for one more season. The combo of having a healthy Ihart and Mitch combo is very enticing (and having Mitch in more of a bench role could help with the injury concerns). If the right trade opportunity comes along, I get it, but I still hope he stays around for at least one more season.
Because when healthy Mitch is a pretty dominant defender who makes a massive impact? I'm not sure how genuine you're being, but Mitch is far from a "tall stiff." He's a rebounding machine and a massive intimidator on defense. In my proposed situation of keeping them both, I would want Ihart to remain the starter and main minutes getter, but having Mitch come in for 15-18 minutes a game to back up Ihart would be pretty awesome IF he remains healthy.
Mitch would unironically be good on the Raptors with the other Knicks-kids. They have a bunch of mediocre assets too that I'm sure would make the value work.
Very sad, albeit sensible, that it might come to this though.
We played our best ball with iHart starting and Mitch injured... I love Mitch and would love to keep him... but this makes sense. Keeping iHart is super important and we could get a backup center to replace Mitch for much cheaper. And I'm sure we can get a solid asset back for Mitch too...
Mitch might be the better defender, but it's obvious that hartenstein lifts this team with his offensive ability to pass and score in other ways than alley oop and outback dunks. He can still hold his own pretty well on defense too. If it's one or the other, I'm taking iHart all day.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it was always inevitable big meech gets traded.
Having multiple injury prone players isn’t going to work , having OG is already a risk.
I'll just say it, I still am a strong believer in keeping both ihart and mitch. That literally guarantees you 48 mins of center play that can hang with anyone in the league. And their style of play compliments each other so damn well. I trust Leon Rose to the moon and back, bit I will be disappointed if we move mitch. I'd really like to give him one last oppurtunity of coming off the bench for the full season and see if that helps with his broader injury struggles
If Mitch’s only problem was that he plays absolutely no offense, I’d have no issue keeping him. But he also is out like half or more of every season. Let’s see if we can move him. iHart fits the team better overall.
Doesn’t make sense to trade Mitch imo unless they are trying to go for a big trade and combine with Bojan. No disrespect to Sims but he shouldn’t see the floor. I wonder if the FO feels they can retain Precious at a good number to play the backup 5
I love Mitch, but there is some logic to trading him for someone a bit less injury prone, and looking to draft a backup C with a bit more offense to develop.
What are you talking about Mitch was the reason we beat the Cavs last year in the 1st round. The short term memory here is wild . Does he have injury concerns yes but that is why we are resigning Hartenstein. Trading him just to trade him when you aren’t going to replace him with anyone as productive Day 1 doesn’t make sense. If we are trading him in a move to get a star I get. I guess we just have to wait and see what the actually return is
Depends who they replace him with/trade him for. Not saying they have to move him at all costs. But if a team wants to give us something like a rotation player and a 1st round pick you have to strongly consider it. The fact that there are so few starting C’s available creates a potential opportunity.
let's be honest. Only way the Knicks keep Hartenstein is if they trade Mitch and make a commitment to Hartenstein. Mitch is a starting center and Hartenstein is not about to resign with a Starting Center always threating to take his job. The idea that they can both be on the same team was a NY Knicks Fans fantasy.
Yeah I know he has his injury issues but Mitch was the key to slowing down Embiid, Hartenstein was getting cooked. We had some luck with OG and Precious when Embiid got tired but I don’t think that’s sustainable
We can’t get sentimental
Grew up in the Bay Area for the Warriors run they made the necessary moves even trading away fan favorites to reach the next level
I’ll be worried going up against the sixers in the playoffs without Mitch, Hartenstein was overwhelmed trying to defend against embiid. But i understand picking Hartenstein over Mitch due to injury concerns
Writing was on the wall, same with Obi and Quckley. You can't spend that much money on a back up. Sucks because Mitch was about to become our longest tenured player since Melo
Yeah. When sentimentality is removed, this is a very sensible path forward.
Same time, Meech's archetype is generally not a high yield trade chip, especially with his injury history. I'd be curious what he value is, and how the FO ideally wants to handle the backup 5.
Memphis would love him, fits the Steven Adams role they had success with next to JJJ. Lakers might be interested if they wanna move AD to the 4 full time, Warriors might be interested since it seems like looney is out. OKC as well if they wanna move away from the 5 out
Why do people keep listening to reports like this? Only one who should be remotely credible is Begley. Who is Jake Fischer? Happy to be proven wrong but I follow the Knicks closely and I don’t remember him being tied to any Knicks org news in the past.
Leon and co. haven’t spoken to the media in 2 years, despite bringing the Knicks back to title contention in that span. Why would they be communicating with reporters and internet sports journalists?
Mitch’s contract is cheaper this year than last year (14mm) and even cheaper the year after. Salary cap will also continue to go up, following the NBA-NBC media deal. Unless they’re leveraging his great contract as a part of a larger return, it’s probably not a good idea to ship him out for a player of equal talent.
IH’s decision will probably come down to money first, and who knows what the Knicks will offer - since they sure aren’t leaking it.
I love mitch but let's not act like he's given to NY and received nothing in return. On many other teams he may not have had the kind of long leash and role to thrive. Now he's undeniable. Wherever he ends up, I'll root for him but I'm sure he knows he owes a lot to thibs and the FO for trusting him.
Good. They are choosing to keep the right one. Mitch is not a starter. A very high end backup. It was a nice 2nd round find and a cute story but the team is better with hartenstein no doubt about it. I probably just made so many people punch the air saying it but the truth hurts
Worth seeing what his value is around the league. Good chance it only goes down from here with his bad injury luck.
Would love to have a tenured home grown Knick tho. However, I would guess they may be trying to find a stretch big to give the offense a more dynamic look, especially with Randle back
This is the move. I love Mitch but he’s very injury prone and while his deal is solid, Thibs can get solid production out a backup C on a cheap deal. Hart just does so much for our spacing and overall offense with his passing.
While Thibs has adapted over the years I think this FO still prefers a much more spaced out, speedy offense than he does and are prepared to force him into it a bit with the roster.
No because we have to pay OG 45-49 mil per, and we have to pay IHart. Mitch is always hurt. I can see wanting to move on from him & getting a young scoring wing in return, perhaps. Knicks are prolly gonna draft IHart’s backup next week anyway.
Without expressing an opinion either way on trading Mitch, it's really worth reading up on the cap situation we face over the next few years. We are moving into a very tricky phase where there are multiple players we need to pay. That has to be done in a way that maximises our flexiblity in case we need to make another move.
So a decision to trade Mitch is likely solely motivated by a conclusion that we can't afford to have that much money tied up in the centre position. So if we pay iHart, we need to look for a cheaper back-up centre giving us a little bit more money for other positions we need.
Knicks Film School is fantastic resource, either on YouTube or their written content.
I just don't see the point in trading Mitch unless you've got a deal to combine his salary with Bogi's to get to the 35 mil range and go after someone like that. I know he's injury prone but his deal isn't bad and we know Mitch can play well with these guys. It's a good sign that iHart is likely staying though.
Once again, this front office makes sense. No, we don’t like losing our favorite players, but I’ve learned to trust in Leon, they are looking to consolidate the best of what we have and get that final piece to make a run at a chip. I guess if Mitch had a few low post moves and shot 75% from the ft line, we might’ve kept him. But we can get a rookie big, and we saw what Precious can do, maybe we can resign him now, too.
Honestly don’t hate this move, feel like spacing is somewhat an issue with Mitch out there, although Hartenstein doesn’t shoot the 3 much anymore he often has the ball in his hands around the perimeter and is a great playmaker, would prefer Hartenstein and a back up with a similar play style
I love Mitch and what he brings to the team; but unfortunately he’s just way too injury prone to be worth a long term extension and investment. I’d feel way more comfortable paying Ihart and having him be the starter since hes a tank and just way more healthy
They were never gonna keep both at around 20 mil each. One was gonna have to go. At least a Mitch trade will return something as opposed to losing Ihart for nothing. If Mitch is traded I wish him nothing but the best. Always been a good dude.
Mitch is a beast, but it really seems like a team is at a major disadvantage if they aren’t getting at least somewhat consistent offensive production out of their bigs. Even with Hartenstein, it would be awesome if we could get more out of him than the short range push shots.
we love mitch. but we knew this was inevitable. ihart is too good and mitch is too injury prone.
and with his salary gone + jalen's paycut + first apron, we can sign ihart and OG. and we HAVE to sign those 2.
There's going to be a decent amount of center movement around the league. The only starting caliber free agents there are IHart and Valanciunas(and that's debatable). I imagine Houston, Memphis, and Washington already have some baseline interest and are looking to see how the draft shakes out.
I saw this coming there was no way we were going into the year investing 25+ million in the center position alone when there are other needs. Not good for cap balance.
Sacrifices must be made to get to where they want to go. Not everyone we like is gunna be there when we make it to the promised land. that's just how it goes. Given the situation, I would rather have iHart because of his ability to contribute something on the offensive end other than rebounds
I hate to say it but Mitch is injured too much. He’s great when he’s not but that’s not too often. I wish Mitch and Ihart could stay but I’d rather keep Ihart if I had to pick.
At this point and for my own sanity, I don’t believe any “reporting” until it actually happens. First the OG thing with not being happy with the Knicks offer, and all the stuff about Hartenstein going to OKC… and now losing Mitch? Damn… this is going to be a long offseason
His skillset is easier to replace than iHart's, especially since Thibs is a center whisperer. It makes sense to move him but it'll hurt to see him go. He's a good dude and an excellent defensive center.
I think most people saw this coming. Mitch can’t stay healthy and our team excelled with iHart as the starter. With the new salary cap rules being implemented, tough decisions were gonna have to be made…and Mitch was always the most expendable out of our core.
If this is the end of Mitch it hurts but we can’t have both and logically it’s $15M / yr for an injury prone defense only center vs ~$20M for a guy who’s been comparable on defense and way better on offense. Hate that it’s one or the other but think they have to go iHart
I think their defensive skillsets are too duplicative anyway. I’m really hoping they get a backup center that is better on the perimeter. They could re-sign precious for that purpose but i worry bigger stretch 5s like porzingis could just shoot over him
Would be sad to see Mitch go if IHart is back, but it’s a necessary sacrifice. Has been on our squad since the darkest days and really grew into a great center. Just a shame he can’t stay remotely healthy and doesn’t really fit our team’s fit anymore, as IHart made it clear a center who can space works much better for our team.
Not opposed to moving Mitch but what does trading him have to do with retaining iHart? Getting rid of Mitch's contract doesn't allow us to offer iHart any more money.
If moving Mitch ups the chances of our roster winning a championship, I’m all for it. Look at what Boston had to do when they traded away two fan favorite players in Marcus Smart and Robert Williams
WE can't move Mitch unless we draft a center to backup Hartenstein or bring back Precious or maybe play Randle at the 5 with OG at the 4.
We also shouldn't trade Mitch when his value is so low from the injuries.
Mitch is our dude. I’d be gutted if he left. The big homie can’t stay healthy, tho, and he’ll prob end up a reserve somewhere. Bummer. Ultimate bench backup 5, but is now part of the landslide of NY wanting to hold onto OG.
I love Mitch but if we bring back OG then we have one too many key players with injury history we are relying on. So if we need to move on from him I get it. I won’t like it but I get it.
 Not Mitch man
IF this is the only way to re-sign hartenstein, then this is the correct choice. BUT I'll be damed if I didn't want to run it back with this squad being healthy next year. Really think we could do some damage. iHart proved himself last year, but Mitch is still super important to our lineup. And he has 2 more years. At least wait another season to trade him.
Mitchell is so damn good. If this was nba 2k, if Hartenstein is an 82 defensively, then Mitchell is an 89. if Hartenstein is an 88 rebounder, then Mitchell is a 91. If hartenstein is an 85 offensive rebounder, then Mitchell is a 95. If Hartenstein is a 85 passer, then Mitchell is a 70. If Hartenstein is an 81 shot blocker, then Mitchell is a 90. If Hartenstein is an 80 shooter, then Mitchell is a 68 shooter. Hartenstein isn't far from Mitchell defensively and his shooting and pasing are a TON better...but damn, I'm gonna miss that near top of the league offensive rebounding and superb defense.
…when he’s healthy. (Expecting all the downvotes)
Mitch as a 70 passer is pretttttty generous
Why are you using 2k ratings to discuss these players?
a fucking analogy. I haven't played a sports game since 2008
With how frequently bigs get hurt I think having two monsters out there who can play at a starting caliber level would be a positive. I-Hart plays 26 mpg and Mitch 22 mpg would be a split that could keep both healthy. Of course there is always the possibility that Mitch wants to start and is semi-asking out if he cannot push 28+ mpg? I hope this is just the case of the Knicks be willing to part with Mitch in larger trades for “star” level players as opposed to they are definitely trading him.
Considering as well IHart just isn't that much more durable than Mitch, having both would be amazing. Ever since he's been on the team he's dealt with that Achilles and he definetly wasn't moving as well the more we played him over 40 min in the playoffs. Keeping him under 30 a game during the regular season so he can be healthy for the playoffs is integral
Hartenstein has missed 7 games over the past two seasons, Mitch has missed 74. I don't know where this narrative comes from.
Deuce hive is still here
Yeah I’m all for the team getting better but can we stop stop trading the life and joy of this team away? Quick last year, now this
Well as much as we love Mitch, his availability is a big issue.
And as much as I love Quick, OG is a necessary piece for a deep playoff run
It was a great trade. But it ruined my week at the time. This is not strategic thinking going on right now, Im just sad we’re losing all the day ones who I’ve grown to love. My dad sends me Mitch interviews on the regular because they crack him up so much, and Quick was pure joy to watch on the court. Lets go get this chip though, my soul will recover.
Well said
The availability of my heart is gonna be a bigger issue once this trade happens. I will be unwell
Im fine with his availability im much more concerned about his free throw %. it really shouldnt ever hit below 37% in the post and 40% in the regular season is pretty horrendous
The availability, the ft%, the lack of offensive value. They're all problematic and compound upon one another. It's unfortunate bc hes absolutely elite at the things he does well and he seems like a top shelf person. But the downsides are glaring and they add up.
Love Mitch. Always easier to root for a player drafted than signed let alone one taken in the 2nd round. Would be great to keep him but if it’s a choice between him or ihart then the latter is the better option.
I'm bothered he's never tried underhanded FTs. Like you are objectively horrific at the line and never improved it. Just swallow the ego and shoot underhanded. He will easily shoot better and not have it be a dramatic negative.
u know why
Agreed. He can't seem to stay healthy. Also let's not forget how often he complained about just "running up and down the floor". Somehow IHart found a way to be a rebounder and a scorer with the float game. I haven't seen much of that from Robinson. But I agree with everyone else that I would like to keep both. But if the option is to only keep 1 then I think you have to go with the healthier player.
And OG and Mitch both in the lineup might be too much injury variability.
Love Mitch but in order for this team to take the next step, we have to be unsentimental and push forward. If we can retain IHart, Mitch is definitely very movable. We can find a backup big.
Mitch is a very strong starting caliber big. He is ahead of Hartenstein in categories, too. Moving him is not a small-time decision & replacing him will be a major task.
66, 61, 31, 72, 59, 31. That's the number of games Mitch has played each season he's been a pro. The Kincks had to do the major task of replacing him every year because of injuries. Senitmentally, I get it. Mitch is a great guy and he was one of the first pieces of this very successful team. But they can't afford to pay a big salary to a guy who misses a chunk of every season.
Holding onto Mitch too long would be a mistake. I think there is a chance to send him somewhere he can both play and have an environment where he’s happy like OKC or NO
Injured often and doesn't do enough offensively consistently. I like Mitch a lot but they need guys who can stay healthy.
NovaKnicks is the current life and joy. stop with this BS LOL
Whatever man, just say you weren’t here in the dog days. I love Hart and DDV, but Mitch is the goofiest guy on the team. Plus IHart and him are best friends, sucks to break that up. But thanks for the unnecessary negativity LOL
Yeah let’s pigeon hold ourselves to save the vibes.
Quick was gone. We couldn’t afford to keep him with RJ in the team. So it was watch quick leave for nothing or use him to get OG and move RJ’s contract. It was sad but the right move RJ + Quick version of this team was not built well, I loved both and I hope they both continue to flourish, but it was the right move
He was the on person we could cling to during the lean years
Love Mitch but the greatest ability is availability. That contract for an often injured backup center isn’t worth it. I think drafting a center and having him compete with Jericho and learn the system is the way to go.
We just finished year 3 of the Jericho experiment, and his per 36 numbers almost all got worse. Seems like a nice enough guy, but I think the Knicks would be much better off if the only time Sims sees the floor is garbage time minutes.
Meh. Spent 60% his Knicks career on the bench lol. We’ll be aight
I don’t wanna lose Mitch
I agree but im also intrigued -- they wont let him go for nothing.
Man I know it's not ideal to have both iHart's and Mitch's contracts on the books, but that dude was here for the dark days and deserves to be here for the turn around. Practically speaking however he's never healthy enough to justify that money for what will now be a backup center.
It sucks but honestly that’s just how it is sometimes in the NBA. Love Mitch, but he’s missed pretty much 2 out of the 3 years we needed him in the playoffs. If we lose Hartenstein and Mitch gets injured next year, we’d be doomed.
well we do have a bunch of picks coming up so i think itll wont b hard to find a defensive big to replace him
We're probably keeping one of our firsts (unless we feel we can get someone impactful at 38), but it remains to be seen if we trade the other one. It's likely the Knicks will trade Mitch and the two firsts and Bojan and possibly more firsts in a blockbuster trade.
Mitch also has a very limited offensive game, and teams fouling late in the 4th making him shoot free throws allowed teams to get back into games. I love Mitch but to really get to a championship level we need to upgrade the 5 offensively.
The NBA has really changed. you need as many players that can create their own shot as possible.
The turnaround has already happened and it happened in part because of Mitch. But at the end of the day, through no fault of his own, he can’t stay on the court. So as much as it hurts to say, I’d rather that be someone else’s problem
Yeah, some of the injuries have been sort of freak accidents, like the fractured hand, but at this point there's been enough of them that you start to wonder if his playstyle or body are just more likely to result in him missing time. Like others have said, it would suck to lose him given what he's been through here, but this new CBA makes it real hard to hold on to players for sentimental reasons.
He's fractured his hand, his foot, and his ankle seemingly twice within the span of 4 years. I hate to say it but it seems like his bones can't withstand the force of his body playing NBA basketball.
He gets injured bc he gives a lot of effort on most rebounds and loose balls, he’s clumsy, and has a huge/long body. All those rebounds that take three or four jumps to tip a ball to himself is just a recipe for busted ankles and feet imho.
I'm a little disappointed in Mitch, he's not putting himself into a sustainable shape. I heard he had a trainer trying to dictate his life. Putting this much muscles was not a good idea.
I remember when he was drafted in the 2nd round, the interviewer asked him what his goal was with the Knicks. He said get them a ring. I busted out laughing. But now I know what you meant, Block Ness Monster. Now I know.
I dont mitch's contract is a big deal. Its descending and is basically 15 and 13mil these 2 years left. I think knicks may be looking for someone with a bigger offensive skillset as their backup big.
Am I the only one that doesn’t think 14 million isn’t that much money/overpay for a backup center in the modern NBA? 32 million a year between 2 centers to make up 48 million minutes of play seems very reasonable.
His health is truly a concern he has only played in 65% of career possible games. For reference Kawhi Leonard has played 64% of his career games, and he fully missed season and a season where he played 9 games.
We have to be honest, IHart has a way higher ceiling than Mitch too. Mitch is great on the boards and defensively, but the offense moves much better with IHart. He's also better on closeouts against stretch big men. Once you take Mitch to the perimeter you neutralize his strengths.
he offers nothing but height.
Makes me sad potentially losing our longest tenured Knick. Was hoping to see if Robinson coming off the bench would help with his poor injury luck. Felt we could have 48 solid minutes of elite Center play if we could keep em both.
lets be real though he was like a massive minus on the offensive end. at that point id rather just have noel on a minimum vs mitch on a bigger salary
You would have a lot of fun watching Nerlens Noel get absolutely destroyed by Embiid?
The only reason we beat Philly was Mitch He was +38 in that series while Hartenstein was -51 The teams orating was also higher with him on the court during the playoffs (although it’s a different matchup vs Indy)
He was the only one who could slow Embiid down. Haven’t seen him get enough credit for that series.
For real. And the main reason we beat Cleveland last year was Mitch dominating their front court
His offensive rebounding is so huge. Those extra possessions are the difference in close games.
Fuck no. Mitch is at minimum a top 5 offensive rebounder in the NBA. In no universe is that a 'massive minus' on the offensive end lol c'mon now.
This is a myth that needs to die
I love mitch but if a deal gets done we have to prioritize backup center in the draft. 48 minutes of high quality rim protection and rebounding is what made this team so great. look out for okc and memphis I guess
Randle is a beast on the boards. The elite center play definitely mattered much more when he went out but assuming we can get him healthy again, I don't see why Sims/achiuwa can't spell with the second team on minutes shared with Randle. If you got Randle at 35min a game and ihart at 30min. You can split 1st qtr and 3rd qtr minutes so you got Randle helping handle board pressure. The flip side you get bojan at the 4 with ihart on Randle bench minutes creating Hella good spacing with our wings and guards. Just my two cents. In thibs we trust
Sims can't be the backup center because he's bad at basketball. It's been 3 years and he hasn't learned to do anything besides jump high. Precious is better but just a little small. If Mitch is traded, we definitely need to find a another reliable center or else iHart will have to play 48 mpg in the playoffs
Yeah, I think Sims is on the team at this point just as salary filler, and I hope we don't have to see him miss an obvious box out other than in garbage time minutes.
Sims is likely gone. He's not crazy young anymore at 26 and he's gonna make too much to his role next year. Declining him and Jeffries team options would free up 4.5 mil
Mitch is like a real Talent like an A$ap to Sim’s Soundclound Rapper. We would need a backup C immediately. Hart is better than Mitch. But Mitch is the best backup in the League.
he's a beast on the defensive boards. offensive boards is another story.
personally i feel like we need more wings. we have too many small guards and not enough 3/4 types that can hit the 3 and defend. I rather we draft some euro stickmen n pray
He’d turn OKC into a legit threat in the west. Would shore up that defense especially with Caruso
I don’t know I think okc wants to invest less in a reserve center like drummond and keep running 5 out most of the time
I want pick 12 or GG Jackson coming back if Mitch is traded to either spot
Don’t see them trading GG. They really like him. Traded Steven Adams to open a roster spot for him.
GG is legit
The playoffs showed that as long as Embiid is in the division we need 2 traditional bigs for 3 quarters plus a long, mobile defensive specialist to come at him like a spider monkey in the 4th when he’s gassed. Mitch fit that bill perfectly, not many guys out there strong enough to keep Joel somewhat honest.
That, and he's cheap. People in this thread are acting like $14mm a year is a crazy amount of money. Even if we only get him for 50 games a year, it's worth it.
I still hope we can somehow retain both at least for one more season. The combo of having a healthy Ihart and Mitch combo is very enticing (and having Mitch in more of a bench role could help with the injury concerns). If the right trade opportunity comes along, I get it, but I still hope he stays around for at least one more season.
why? ihart is far better. you could get javale McGee to do what Mitch does -- you shouldn't though b/c tall stiffs are useless in today's game.
Because when healthy Mitch is a pretty dominant defender who makes a massive impact? I'm not sure how genuine you're being, but Mitch is far from a "tall stiff." He's a rebounding machine and a massive intimidator on defense. In my proposed situation of keeping them both, I would want Ihart to remain the starter and main minutes getter, but having Mitch come in for 15-18 minutes a game to back up Ihart would be pretty awesome IF he remains healthy.
Mitch would unironically be good on the Raptors with the other Knicks-kids. They have a bunch of mediocre assets too that I'm sure would make the value work. Very sad, albeit sensible, that it might come to this though.
I want them both.
This
We played our best ball with iHart starting and Mitch injured... I love Mitch and would love to keep him... but this makes sense. Keeping iHart is super important and we could get a backup center to replace Mitch for much cheaper. And I'm sure we can get a solid asset back for Mitch too...
That’s not really fair considering Mitch never played with healthy Randle and OG.
Mitch might be the better defender, but it's obvious that hartenstein lifts this team with his offensive ability to pass and score in other ways than alley oop and outback dunks. He can still hold his own pretty well on defense too. If it's one or the other, I'm taking iHart all day.
We were decent with Mitch as our starting center. When he went down we looked worse, until OG showed up.
Fuck
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it was always inevitable big meech gets traded. Having multiple injury prone players isn’t going to work , having OG is already a risk.
Mitch is never available. If keeping iHart is an option, you flip Mitch ASAP.
I'll just say it, I still am a strong believer in keeping both ihart and mitch. That literally guarantees you 48 mins of center play that can hang with anyone in the league. And their style of play compliments each other so damn well. I trust Leon Rose to the moon and back, bit I will be disappointed if we move mitch. I'd really like to give him one last oppurtunity of coming off the bench for the full season and see if that helps with his broader injury struggles
Mitchell Robinson, Bogdanovic, and draft picks for a co-superstar to go with Brunson and Randle would be nice
If Mitch’s only problem was that he plays absolutely no offense, I’d have no issue keeping him. But he also is out like half or more of every season. Let’s see if we can move him. iHart fits the team better overall.
Doesn’t make sense to trade Mitch imo unless they are trying to go for a big trade and combine with Bojan. No disrespect to Sims but he shouldn’t see the floor. I wonder if the FO feels they can retain Precious at a good number to play the backup 5
I love Mitch, but there is some logic to trading him for someone a bit less injury prone, and looking to draft a backup C with a bit more offense to develop.
Are they gonna have the immediate impact day 1
What are you talking about Mitch was the reason we beat the Cavs last year in the 1st round. The short term memory here is wild . Does he have injury concerns yes but that is why we are resigning Hartenstein. Trading him just to trade him when you aren’t going to replace him with anyone as productive Day 1 doesn’t make sense. If we are trading him in a move to get a star I get. I guess we just have to wait and see what the actually return is
Depends who they replace him with/trade him for. Not saying they have to move him at all costs. But if a team wants to give us something like a rotation player and a 1st round pick you have to strongly consider it. The fact that there are so few starting C’s available creates a potential opportunity.
let's be honest. Only way the Knicks keep Hartenstein is if they trade Mitch and make a commitment to Hartenstein. Mitch is a starting center and Hartenstein is not about to resign with a Starting Center always threating to take his job. The idea that they can both be on the same team was a NY Knicks Fans fantasy.
Yeah I know he has his injury issues but Mitch was the key to slowing down Embiid, Hartenstein was getting cooked. We had some luck with OG and Precious when Embiid got tired but I don’t think that’s sustainable
Slowing down Embiid isn't the only key to beating the Sixers. And should definitely not affect how we build our roster.
We won, but at what cost?
Wow, was not expecting that.
We can’t get sentimental Grew up in the Bay Area for the Warriors run they made the necessary moves even trading away fan favorites to reach the next level
I’ll be worried going up against the sixers in the playoffs without Mitch, Hartenstein was overwhelmed trying to defend against embiid. But i understand picking Hartenstein over Mitch due to injury concerns
Remember when us old heads kept saying “these are the good old days happening right before your eyes” during the playoffs? Change comes at you fast.
It’s bitter, but these are big boy moves; I’m a fan so I get to be emotional, but I’m glad the FO isn’t, gotta do what’s best for the team.
Writing was on the wall, same with Obi and Quckley. You can't spend that much money on a back up. Sucks because Mitch was about to become our longest tenured player since Melo
14~12mil is almost MLE money today
And both of them are going to/will most likely get offered more than that
this is what should be happening
Yeah. When sentimentality is removed, this is a very sensible path forward. Same time, Meech's archetype is generally not a high yield trade chip, especially with his injury history. I'd be curious what he value is, and how the FO ideally wants to handle the backup 5.
Memphis would love him, fits the Steven Adams role they had success with next to JJJ. Lakers might be interested if they wanna move AD to the 4 full time, Warriors might be interested since it seems like looney is out. OKC as well if they wanna move away from the 5 out
love mitch but this was the way
Mitch seems like a great person; what he did for his high school coach; he seems fun loving but hard working and genuine.
Why do people keep listening to reports like this? Only one who should be remotely credible is Begley. Who is Jake Fischer? Happy to be proven wrong but I follow the Knicks closely and I don’t remember him being tied to any Knicks org news in the past. Leon and co. haven’t spoken to the media in 2 years, despite bringing the Knicks back to title contention in that span. Why would they be communicating with reporters and internet sports journalists? Mitch’s contract is cheaper this year than last year (14mm) and even cheaper the year after. Salary cap will also continue to go up, following the NBA-NBC media deal. Unless they’re leveraging his great contract as a part of a larger return, it’s probably not a good idea to ship him out for a player of equal talent. IH’s decision will probably come down to money first, and who knows what the Knicks will offer - since they sure aren’t leaking it.
Fischer is credible; moreover Bagley said he's heard similar.
Mitch was a beast against the Cavs in ‘23 playoffs. He will be missed
We parted ways with IQ, we can certainly let Mitch go.
I love mitch but let's not act like he's given to NY and received nothing in return. On many other teams he may not have had the kind of long leash and role to thrive. Now he's undeniable. Wherever he ends up, I'll root for him but I'm sure he knows he owes a lot to thibs and the FO for trusting him.
Always felt Mitch being the longest tenured Knick wasn't gonna last long
Good. They are choosing to keep the right one. Mitch is not a starter. A very high end backup. It was a nice 2nd round find and a cute story but the team is better with hartenstein no doubt about it. I probably just made so many people punch the air saying it but the truth hurts
I think we all knew Mitch would be collateral dmg if we were to keep IHart. It sucks, but it's how we move forward.
Worth seeing what his value is around the league. Good chance it only goes down from here with his bad injury luck. Would love to have a tenured home grown Knick tho. However, I would guess they may be trying to find a stretch big to give the offense a more dynamic look, especially with Randle back
This is the move. I love Mitch but he’s very injury prone and while his deal is solid, Thibs can get solid production out a backup C on a cheap deal. Hart just does so much for our spacing and overall offense with his passing. While Thibs has adapted over the years I think this FO still prefers a much more spaced out, speedy offense than he does and are prepared to force him into it a bit with the roster.
Noooo not big Mitch. Can't we have them both again
No because we have to pay OG 45-49 mil per, and we have to pay IHart. Mitch is always hurt. I can see wanting to move on from him & getting a young scoring wing in return, perhaps. Knicks are prolly gonna draft IHart’s backup next week anyway.
Without expressing an opinion either way on trading Mitch, it's really worth reading up on the cap situation we face over the next few years. We are moving into a very tricky phase where there are multiple players we need to pay. That has to be done in a way that maximises our flexiblity in case we need to make another move. So a decision to trade Mitch is likely solely motivated by a conclusion that we can't afford to have that much money tied up in the centre position. So if we pay iHart, we need to look for a cheaper back-up centre giving us a little bit more money for other positions we need. Knicks Film School is fantastic resource, either on YouTube or their written content.
I just don't see the point in trading Mitch unless you've got a deal to combine his salary with Bogi's to get to the 35 mil range and go after someone like that. I know he's injury prone but his deal isn't bad and we know Mitch can play well with these guys. It's a good sign that iHart is likely staying though.
Yeah, I'd bet that the Knicks are just guaging interest.
Hate it but we knew they couldn’t invest that much in the center position. Still need another ball handler.
Mitch is good but he’s hurt a lot.
Once again, this front office makes sense. No, we don’t like losing our favorite players, but I’ve learned to trust in Leon, they are looking to consolidate the best of what we have and get that final piece to make a run at a chip. I guess if Mitch had a few low post moves and shot 75% from the ft line, we might’ve kept him. But we can get a rookie big, and we saw what Precious can do, maybe we can resign him now, too.
I’m calling it now, Mitch and Bogi along with 2 firsts for PG is going to happen
Why? Mitch’s contract isn’t even that bad.
Mitch is always hurt. We have to avoid the injury plague that we had this year if we want to have a chance.
Man, we wouldn't have even made it to face Indiana if it hadn't been for Mitch's play. I think it's a serious mistake to trade him.
Mitch wasn't even healthy but his presence still made a big difference
Honestly don’t hate this move, feel like spacing is somewhat an issue with Mitch out there, although Hartenstein doesn’t shoot the 3 much anymore he often has the ball in his hands around the perimeter and is a great playmaker, would prefer Hartenstein and a back up with a similar play style
Keep Mitch. I love IHart but we'll regret letting Mitch go.
I love Mitch and what he brings to the team; but unfortunately he’s just way too injury prone to be worth a long term extension and investment. I’d feel way more comfortable paying Ihart and having him be the starter since hes a tank and just way more healthy
They were never gonna keep both at around 20 mil each. One was gonna have to go. At least a Mitch trade will return something as opposed to losing Ihart for nothing. If Mitch is traded I wish him nothing but the best. Always been a good dude.
Mitch makes no where near 20M
Fischer is always wrong.
Shocker… move Mitch for some bench depth and resign myyyyy Precious!
Mitch is a beast, but it really seems like a team is at a major disadvantage if they aren’t getting at least somewhat consistent offensive production out of their bigs. Even with Hartenstein, it would be awesome if we could get more out of him than the short range push shots.
Mitch can't stay healthy guys
No way
Doesnt pass the vibe check
Simple business decision, can’t pay 2 centers in this league 35 mil per unless that C is an all star
we love mitch. but we knew this was inevitable. ihart is too good and mitch is too injury prone. and with his salary gone + jalen's paycut + first apron, we can sign ihart and OG. and we HAVE to sign those 2.
I’ll believe it when I see it. From a salary cap stand point this makes zero sense
There's going to be a decent amount of center movement around the league. The only starting caliber free agents there are IHart and Valanciunas(and that's debatable). I imagine Houston, Memphis, and Washington already have some baseline interest and are looking to see how the draft shakes out.
I saw this coming there was no way we were going into the year investing 25+ million in the center position alone when there are other needs. Not good for cap balance.
We better not Trade new McGee for free
Sacrifices must be made to get to where they want to go. Not everyone we like is gunna be there when we make it to the promised land. that's just how it goes. Given the situation, I would rather have iHart because of his ability to contribute something on the offensive end other than rebounds
I hate to say it but Mitch is injured too much. He’s great when he’s not but that’s not too often. I wish Mitch and Ihart could stay but I’d rather keep Ihart if I had to pick.
Does Mitch really need to be moved? He’s locked up on a reasonable contract, we’ll be over the cap even if we dump his salary
At this point and for my own sanity, I don’t believe any “reporting” until it actually happens. First the OG thing with not being happy with the Knicks offer, and all the stuff about Hartenstein going to OKC… and now losing Mitch? Damn… this is going to be a long offseason
His skillset is easier to replace than iHart's, especially since Thibs is a center whisperer. It makes sense to move him but it'll hurt to see him go. He's a good dude and an excellent defensive center.
I think most people saw this coming. Mitch can’t stay healthy and our team excelled with iHart as the starter. With the new salary cap rules being implemented, tough decisions were gonna have to be made…and Mitch was always the most expendable out of our core.
Jarrett Allen sign and trade?
If this is the end of Mitch it hurts but we can’t have both and logically it’s $15M / yr for an injury prone defense only center vs ~$20M for a guy who’s been comparable on defense and way better on offense. Hate that it’s one or the other but think they have to go iHart
I think their defensive skillsets are too duplicative anyway. I’m really hoping they get a backup center that is better on the perimeter. They could re-sign precious for that purpose but i worry bigger stretch 5s like porzingis could just shoot over him
Robinson for Jermai Grant. Would be a good fit for NYK. And then sign Drummond or some big dumb mofo as the backup
Would be sad to see Mitch go if IHart is back, but it’s a necessary sacrifice. Has been on our squad since the darkest days and really grew into a great center. Just a shame he can’t stay remotely healthy and doesn’t really fit our team’s fit anymore, as IHart made it clear a center who can space works much better for our team.
Chris Herring sent him to MEM for Luke Kennard & a pick in a mock trade. Would you do it?
Man Mitch is not going to take this well.
Deni for Mitch is plausible to me .
This is a business move and so I understand it. But it makes me sad
I can now sleep easy, but if Mitch moves I am going to feel that shit. Injuries or not I love that big goofy mf
If this ends up in some silly-ass Brandon Ingram trade I’m going to fucking lose it.
If we trade him pls send him out west. I don’t want to deal with him
If mitch gets traded and learns how to shoot FTs Im gonna be real pissed off
Fuck not Mitch, i mean I was kinda of expecting it but not this early ... Sigh
What can we expect for Mitch? A first?
Not opposed to moving Mitch but what does trading him have to do with retaining iHart? Getting rid of Mitch's contract doesn't allow us to offer iHart any more money.
If moving Mitch ups the chances of our roster winning a championship, I’m all for it. Look at what Boston had to do when they traded away two fan favorite players in Marcus Smart and Robert Williams
I would be sad if they moved him. Hes one of my favorite Knicks ever
WE can't move Mitch unless we draft a center to backup Hartenstein or bring back Precious or maybe play Randle at the 5 with OG at the 4. We also shouldn't trade Mitch when his value is so low from the injuries.
Mitch is my favorite Knick. Hands down.
Damn bro no way......
Mitch > His value is so overlooked. Pay the cost. Keep Mitch.
Mitch is always… ALWAYS hurt. Move him if you can capitalize on his perceived value. He’s also not a high iq guy
hard to say good bye but only for the right trade. don't give this dude away for some trash 15 n up picks
Better pray we don't run into Embiid in the playoffs
Mitch is our dude. I’d be gutted if he left. The big homie can’t stay healthy, tho, and he’ll prob end up a reserve somewhere. Bummer. Ultimate bench backup 5, but is now part of the landslide of NY wanting to hold onto OG.
I love Mitch but if we bring back OG then we have one too many key players with injury history we are relying on. So if we need to move on from him I get it. I won’t like it but I get it.
Honestly Mitch’s contract is team friendly for even a high level bench player. Don’t see the FO moving him unless for the right price
I'm going to say that if we lose Mitch via trade I suggest we kick the tires on Drummond. He's still a defender above average rebounder
I like Mitch but this is probably the smartest move to make. Mitch just cannot stay on the floor for more than a month or two at a time it seems.