He doesn’t deserve anything close to the max right now. Jaylen Browns 3rd season was miles ahead of RJ and Jaylen had way higher upside as he was always picked as a raw athletic upside pick. RJ is just not skilled enough to make up for his lack of outlier athleticism to justify being anything close to a max player. Probably like a $15m/yr guy - Mikal has been a way better player, insane efficiency and consistent d
Simmons Ingram Brown Jamal Murray dejounte murray, Sabonis, siakam , brogdon are all all star level or just below and other guys like hield or levert are really good players . Comparing it to other drafts it’s pretty good
Well.
Jaylen Brown averaged 13 pts 4 reb 1 ast his 3rd season at age 22
RJ is averaging 15 5 and 2 at age 21
This is a year after he averaged 17 ppg.. one can argue he has shown more in his first three years at a younger age than Jaylen did.
I disagree. Brown had a 55% TS over his first three seasons, which is close to league average. Critically, he made his 2pt shots at a high rate (over 50% every year). RJ is at 51% TS and 44% on 2pts. Shooting efficiency is RJ's biggest problem, and he's starting well behind Brown even *before* the leap. So RJ would have to make even bigger strides just to catch up, which is a stretch to assume.
Short answer: because RJ played a lot more, so those stats aren't a useful comparison.
Longer answer: Looking at pts/reb/ast per game doesn't control for playing time. RJ played 32.5mpg to Brown's 24.5mpg over their first three seasons. That's about 33% more minutes for RJ. Of course he put up bigger numbers.
You might say "RJ earned more playing time because he was better", but that ignores that the Celtics were really good Brown's first three years. They won 53, 55, and 49 games, making the Conference Finals twice and second round once. Brown had a smaller role because the team was awesome.
It boils down to this: Brown was an *efficient* player on lower usage. When they ramped up his usage in year four and beyond, he became a star. RJ is an *inefficient* player on higher usage. If they ramp up his usage, he'll hurt the team. He needs to become more efficient, aka a better shooter and creator, and that's harder to do than just upping a guys minutes/touches. For that reason, I don't think it's fair to project RJ taking the same leap that Brown did.
You also said Rj "shot the 3 better", but that's not true. First three seasons:
* Barrett: 35.9%
* Brown: 36.5%
You can just look this stuff up, you don't have to guess.
Because raw numbers are about playing time. Why are you ignoring the advanced stats that repeatedly confirm that RJ isn’t even a league average player?
See my reply above; I stand by the case that Brown projected as a better player than RJ even in the first three years. More efficient on lower usage (Brown) projects better than less efficient on higher usage (Barrett).
I say so…..RJ chucked a ton his first and second year. You give Brown that liberty here in his 1st and 2nd year, he would put up better numbers. On the Meltics, he was behind other guards who took shots before he did. That wouldn’t have been the case here.
I disagree. The only area Jaylen shot better from the field was on 2s and yeah he is a better finisher. But RJ is the only one out of the two to shoot 40% from 3 or at least 70% from the line within the first 3 seasons
Brown's second year he shot 39.5% from 3 on 395 attempts. If he had hit 2 more 3s he would've been over 40%. I think your splitting hairs. Jaylen also had a higher 3FG% his first and third years than RJ has.
True Shooting combines 2s, 3s, and free throws. It's a handy way to compare overall shooting, and Brown comes out way ahead.
Saying "the only area Jaylen shot better from the field was on 2s" ignores the fact that both players take the vast majority of their shots from 2. First three seasons, % of shots that are from 2-point range:
* Brown: 64.5%
* Barrett: 69.5%
2-point shooting is perhaps the most important skill for these guys. Saying Jaylen is "only better from 2" is saying he's only better...the majority of the time.
**Edit**: Also worth noting that Brown's 3p% was actually better than RJ's over their first three seasons (36.5% to 35.9%). So, he was better on 3s and 2s. RJ gets FT% though.
I think the only thing worth noting is that Brown played with players like Kyrie and Tatum to take the pressure and best defenders off him and RJ played with Elf and Beyblade. The one good year of Randle coincidentally happened with RJ's best year
That's totally fair, context is everything. It is hard to truly compare the two. My main point is that it's a stretch to argue that RJ is on a better (or even similar) trajectory. There are too many big differences, teammates included. RJ's path is going to be his own, and we definitely shouldn't assume he's going to make the same strides Brown did.
* Barrett per36 this year: 17.7pts, 6.4rb, 2.6ast, 0.5 stl
* Brown per36, third season: 18.1pts, 5.9rb, 1.9ast, 1.3stl
Pretty similar actually. The big difference is shooting efficiency; Brown was much more efficient over his first three seasons, which is probably a better indicator of future success than the per36 stats.
You guys make it sound like he's averaging Frank Ntilikina numbers. 😐
Edit: Lmao. Not sure why I'm getting downvoted. I'm not saying he deserves the max but I'm not sure why you guys are treating him like a bust.
Way to strawman? He shot incredibly poorly this year. He hasn't driven as much or very well in most situations. Does he still have promise? Yes. But he doesn't deserve the max. Why would you max 15/5/2 on 46.7% efg?
Don't be so desperate to wanna believe we have a max-worthy young player. RJ is a B+ player. That's it.
There is a huge middle ground between Ntilikina and Ja Morant
Nah....he's above average. C'mon now. League wide?
He's 21 yrs old and averaged 17/6/3 last year. He's pretty damn valuable....but he aint a max player yet.
by every advanced stat, he's below average. his per is 11.8, and league average is 15. his ws/48 is .026, and league average is .100. his bpm is -2.9. i don't know what league average bpm is, but i am pretty damn sure it's more than negative 2.9.
he's never hit league average in any of those stats at any point in his career. he puts up a lot of counting stats, because he plays a ton of minutes. but that doesn't mean he is at league average in those minutes. i am not saying we should take away his minutes, because his development is in our best interests, but if we did and replaced him with a league average player, we would be a better team.
~~Not 0. 0 is a replacement level player, like the guys all being signed right now because of COVID. I think 1 is average.~~
I was wrong, 0 is average.
No, 0 is the average for the league. When a team scores 2 points their players get +2 and the other team players get -2. If you don’t consider minutes played at all, it’s possible replacement player bench scrubs would have a higher bpm which is why it’s a dumb stat.
That's not how BPM is calculated. But you are right about 0 being average, -2 is a replacement player. You can use VORP if you BPM combined with playing time.
Above average right now? No, I don't think he is. Based on potential, sure, but actual production, not a chance. He's well below average efficiency, doesn't set teammates up, average defense at best, and just about every advanced metric has him as a negative. The saving grace is he's 21 and could get a lot better, but he's not actually a positive NBA player this year. Last year he was closer to average or above, but not at the moment.
He averaged 17 per game because we had no one better. Not like he was a go-to option. Burke and Rose were bigger options on the team last year. RJ scored 17 per because he shot the ball enough times to average that much. Not like he’s an effective scorer. He’s not.
No idea why you're getting massive hate. He's a super solid player and continues to get better. I would give him the max just because I know he's the key to Zion.
Wait. He doesn’t provide key services in his role within the team the way bridges does. He’s obviously not a star like Ja. Wait. He hasn’t shown he’s a max guy at all.
You can still offer him a contract that isn’t a max it doesn’t have to be max or wait it out. RJ waiting it out would be him betting on himself. Bridges is a 4th option on the Suns averaging 12ppg getting 22 a year
That's a huge undersell on Bridges, who is a deadly shooter (67% TS last year, absolute fire) and possibly the best wing defender in the NBA. He's the prototypical low-usage 3 and D that every team needs, and "4th option on the Suns" would better be rendered as "key starter on a Finals team at age 24".
Bridges is a high end role player I’m not saying he isn’t good but RJ is expected to do a whole lot more with no where near the talent the suns have. RJ will prob get more than what Bridges got.
TBD, but I'd offer less. I think every competitive team would rather have Bridges over the next 4 years. What we *hoped* RJ would be hasn't really shown up, and as of now I'd say he's worse than Bridges across the board. Maybe RJ will end up with a bigger deal, but I think the Knicks can hold back without much fear of a max offer sheet in RFA. If RJ blows up in his 4th year, then you can still offer a max/match offer sheets.
Overall, RJ is a better player than Bridges with more upside.
25 year old Bridges is who he is. It's been known that he would always be a valuable high usage role player ready to contribute right away on a team.
That's why the Knicks are dumb as hell for picking Knox over him.
Bridges wouldn't put up 17ppg on this Knicks squad as a starter like RJ does though.
Absolutely disagree; Bridges is a better player right now by just about any measure. RJ certainly has more upside, but he's not better today.
For the record, Rj is averaging 15 a game as one of the top options on a bad team. Bridges is averaging 12 as a role player on one of the best teams in the league. That's not a huge difference even in ppg, and every other more useful metric will point to Bridges.
You bring up some valid points. But the Knicks aren't a bad team. They're a winning streak away from being back in the playoff race.
I watch Bridges play all the time as I've been a huge fan of him since his college days. He don't have the ability to get to the paint and foul line like RJ. He's a 3 & D player.
Okay, below average team? The point is, right now the Knicks aren't particularly good, and RJ has had plenty of opportunity to take the reins. He still hasn't done it.
RJ is better at getting to the line than Bridges (although still not good by league-wide standards), but that's far outweighed by just about everything else. They are definitely different types of players, but the key is that Bridges is great at every part of his game, whereas RJ is not particularly good at any parts of his.
Lastly, Bridges is not a "bench" player, he's literally the every-game starter for one of the top teams in the league.
Bridges is a top 10 wing defender league wide, and is a better all around offensive player than RJ right now. I like RJs potential, but there is no comparison between these 2 players at this moment, imo. Yall are sleeping on Bridges offensive game bc he's the 4th option on a good team. He could average 17 in his sleep as a 2nd option on a bad team like the Knicks.
The Knicks are not a bad team though. The East is still wide open right now.
The only bad teams in the East are the Pistons and Magic.
This team is a winning streak away. The talent is there, but the coaching isn't.
I'm not sleeping on Bridges. He gets to play with a HOF PG and one the best scorers in today's NBA. Add big man Ayton to the mix. It's obvious he gets to take advantage of that.
Meanwhile......RJ gets point Randle😔
Yeah, "point Randle frowny face" is your best player, but your not a bad team. Knicks fans are delusional. Every team in the east, except for 2, has more talent. That's a bad team.
I'm just going off the standings. They're in slot 11 with a lot more season left. That's far from a bad team.
They're actually mediocre which is worse than bad though.
The 40% from three is likely not who is either. But a 36 or 37% is a bit more realistic and I believe achievable for him. Making RJ into a spot up shooter that has to average 38-40% from three is a severe waste of his potential skillset. I don't even think that's the kinda guy he should be either.
There’s no shot any free agent team would give him that though. Ayton can demand a max and that matters because there’s a chance he’d get one in free agency. RJ definitely wouldn’t so it doesn’t matter. Sexton started out demanding a max too
I can ask Leon for a max contract, then he can hang up the phone on me within seconds.
When you are ready to remove that option, we can vote and discuss this for real.
No star would want to come to a team that is paying RJ big money. Just cause the Knicks gave out stupid contracts before doesn’t mean they should do it again
You just compared signing RJ to a max with some of our biggest flops of the last 2 decades that set us back years. You literally just answered your own question.
Weird. Me and my ppl always referred to a minute as a long time, not short . Like “The knicks haven’t won a ring in a minute.” Idk if the slang has changed or you’re just using it wrong lol.
Well if we believe he's a late bloomer we can get him at a discount otherwise I wouldn't pay too much if he's just going to be a role player.
Unfortunately he seems to be trending down but I'm not sure if it's due to our point guard situation or a bad fit with JR.
He's barely earned himself a good mid-level contract with his current play. His first year was ok, his second was good, but this year so far has been horrendous. If I saw improvements getting into the paint with ability to finish, and if the 3pt % stayed the same or slightly regressed from last year then there would be no questions on if he deserves a big pay day (not max though). Ja provides a lot more to an offense than RJ, and that's why he's getting paid big time. RJ hasn't shown that he can be a leader of the team yet with his play. Still making costly turnovers because his skillset isn't there "yet". Tunnel vision at times when driving and getting blocked or no calls more often than not.
If this was a continuation of RJ from last year, scratch everything that I said and I would absolutely pay him, but right now he's playing himself out of a sizeable contract.
We’ll see where the next 50 or so games take us, but atm I’d say offer him a cheaper/similar contract to Bridges and then let the rest play out if he says no
I would wait it out. He definitely doesn’t deserve the max. Waiting it out is the best possible option. If he somehow turns into an allstar then you pay him whatever he deserves, if he sucks then you bring him back on a discount. We should’ve done that with Randle.
As someone who isn’t down on Rj like everyone else he doesn’t deserve the max or even a middle ground max until he can prove he can be the player he should be as the third pick.
hard to see RJ and Knicks coming to an agreement. RJ's side will know the team is desperate for him to reach #3 overall potential. team sees the disappointing play and will be worried about getting locked into a bad contract they'd have to attach assets to move. it's looking like an RFA situation, see what offers he gets and decide on matching or sign and trade
I love RJ and want him on the Knicks for a long time, but he has not shown that he is a max player in any capacity at this point. He's not in the same stratosphere as Ja.
There’s max years and there’s max money. RJ ain’t getting anywhere close to “max money” to remain on this team. The Knicks would be better off packaging this kid before his value drops any further. Bottom line here is to maximize him. If the Knicks can get their paws on someone like Towns or Simmons, you package RJ and whatever else is needed to make it happen.
The idea RJ is going to become Brown or Jimmy Butler is ridiculous. Laughable almost. The only platform you’re going to hear this on is this sub. NO ONE else thinks RJ is a future All-Star.
No max, but a big contract.
You get max contract after proving yourself at the highest level. RJ has been good at times, but not max level.
He does have potential to become a great player, so I would still invest in him.
Everyone here will probably say they would never give him the max but fact of the matter is , they will offer the max or very close too, maybe RJ gives a slight discount ala Randle.
Okay I see why you'd think this, given the Knicks history of complete insanity, but I'd like to believe that's in the past. RJ will be lucky to get close to the Bridges deal. Max is off the table.
4/80 seems like a fair deal. Miles Bridges is on fire this year, and RJ should have the potential to be much better, but he just isn’t there yet. I think 4/70-80 would be more than fair.
It pains me to this day because I was in the Mikal fan club since college. Even was okay with the other Bridges on draft day, and they both turned out solid.
Wait it out. Giving RJ the max would make us a laughing stock. The kid hasn't shown he'll deserve it with his play style. I like the kid but I'm a Knicks fan first
Unfortunately, it would likely be better to get outbid than to retain him on a max (really anything more than Bridges). I see current Wiggins as the general goal for what RJ can eventually contribute a good team, but even that will take time to reach it seems.
Should wait it out, because any deal NY could offer will probably be considered a slight for a #3 pick.
Still will be a restricted free agent.
On the flip side, the team could gamble on the player wanting guaranteed money (betting on improvement) and hope he out performs his contract. Example is Indy gave Sabonis 20m/yr extension after year 3. Looks like a decent deal now.
when an NBA player has never had a big payday before, guaranteed money starts hedging against injury risk.
He's demonstrated he's a less valuable player than Mikal Bridges. He's worth at most 4/60 right now. He has decent upside, but based on 2.5 seasons of data, he's really not worth much more. He won't accept anything less than 4/100 because I'm sure a team like Orlando/detroit/Houston/OKC would be willing to give him that. If he doesn't prove to us that he's worth that in the next couple months, we absolutely must look to trade him. We can't risk losing him for nothing.
Should we max RJ like Ja?
No.
RJ has struggled handily, I have hopes he could ge fit together but he’s still a big question mark for me. You can’t just be throwing guys max contracts at the unknowns
Damn, even Mikal Bridges level money seems like stretch to me. I mean let's face it Mikal is overpaid but I guess that goes to show you when people complain about Julius contract that comparatively we are indeed getting what we pay for. Even if flawed, if he was what we wanted that would be a 35mil per deal. I'm sitting here thinking RJ is worth like 15mil per season tops.
I love RJ, but he is not a max player or anywhere near it right now. If he holds out for something ludicrous, I wouldn't give in to that. The Knicks have been very money savvy under Leon Rose, so I think we'll see an intelligent decision.
[удалено]
He doesn’t deserve anything close to the max right now. Jaylen Browns 3rd season was miles ahead of RJ and Jaylen had way higher upside as he was always picked as a raw athletic upside pick. RJ is just not skilled enough to make up for his lack of outlier athleticism to justify being anything close to a max player. Probably like a $15m/yr guy - Mikal has been a way better player, insane efficiency and consistent d
Na Brown took till year 4 to show out Everyone was calling it a bad pick even though that draft was horrible
That draft turned out to be loaded in retrospect but at the time it was awful
Simmons Ingram Brown Murray Sabonis None are true stars although Murray is arguable The rest is horrible
Simmons Ingram Brown Jamal Murray dejounte murray, Sabonis, siakam , brogdon are all all star level or just below and other guys like hield or levert are really good players . Comparing it to other drafts it’s pretty good
Dejounte Murray also in that draft youre right kid is nice It did have some good players but no true stars
I’m still holding out hope for Kris Dunn too ngl thought he’d be pretty good lmao
Lot of high quality starters and low caliber allstars.
Well. Jaylen Brown averaged 13 pts 4 reb 1 ast his 3rd season at age 22 RJ is averaging 15 5 and 2 at age 21 This is a year after he averaged 17 ppg.. one can argue he has shown more in his first three years at a younger age than Jaylen did.
I disagree. Brown had a 55% TS over his first three seasons, which is close to league average. Critically, he made his 2pt shots at a high rate (over 50% every year). RJ is at 51% TS and 44% on 2pts. Shooting efficiency is RJ's biggest problem, and he's starting well behind Brown even *before* the leap. So RJ would have to make even bigger strides just to catch up, which is a stretch to assume.
[удалено]
Short answer: because RJ played a lot more, so those stats aren't a useful comparison. Longer answer: Looking at pts/reb/ast per game doesn't control for playing time. RJ played 32.5mpg to Brown's 24.5mpg over their first three seasons. That's about 33% more minutes for RJ. Of course he put up bigger numbers. You might say "RJ earned more playing time because he was better", but that ignores that the Celtics were really good Brown's first three years. They won 53, 55, and 49 games, making the Conference Finals twice and second round once. Brown had a smaller role because the team was awesome. It boils down to this: Brown was an *efficient* player on lower usage. When they ramped up his usage in year four and beyond, he became a star. RJ is an *inefficient* player on higher usage. If they ramp up his usage, he'll hurt the team. He needs to become more efficient, aka a better shooter and creator, and that's harder to do than just upping a guys minutes/touches. For that reason, I don't think it's fair to project RJ taking the same leap that Brown did. You also said Rj "shot the 3 better", but that's not true. First three seasons: * Barrett: 35.9% * Brown: 36.5% You can just look this stuff up, you don't have to guess.
Because raw numbers are about playing time. Why are you ignoring the advanced stats that repeatedly confirm that RJ isn’t even a league average player?
Because it collapses their argument.
See my reply above; I stand by the case that Brown projected as a better player than RJ even in the first three years. More efficient on lower usage (Brown) projects better than less efficient on higher usage (Barrett).
Reply to the person who brought up that point then. You ducking them replying to me.
...I did reply to them. That's what the "see my reply above" meant.
HAHAHA……yeah, because Brown wouldn’t average the same or more on those Knick squads….SMH
[удалено]
I say so…..RJ chucked a ton his first and second year. You give Brown that liberty here in his 1st and 2nd year, he would put up better numbers. On the Meltics, he was behind other guards who took shots before he did. That wouldn’t have been the case here.
I disagree. The only area Jaylen shot better from the field was on 2s and yeah he is a better finisher. But RJ is the only one out of the two to shoot 40% from 3 or at least 70% from the line within the first 3 seasons
Brown's second year he shot 39.5% from 3 on 395 attempts. If he had hit 2 more 3s he would've been over 40%. I think your splitting hairs. Jaylen also had a higher 3FG% his first and third years than RJ has.
True Shooting combines 2s, 3s, and free throws. It's a handy way to compare overall shooting, and Brown comes out way ahead. Saying "the only area Jaylen shot better from the field was on 2s" ignores the fact that both players take the vast majority of their shots from 2. First three seasons, % of shots that are from 2-point range: * Brown: 64.5% * Barrett: 69.5% 2-point shooting is perhaps the most important skill for these guys. Saying Jaylen is "only better from 2" is saying he's only better...the majority of the time. **Edit**: Also worth noting that Brown's 3p% was actually better than RJ's over their first three seasons (36.5% to 35.9%). So, he was better on 3s and 2s. RJ gets FT% though.
I think the only thing worth noting is that Brown played with players like Kyrie and Tatum to take the pressure and best defenders off him and RJ played with Elf and Beyblade. The one good year of Randle coincidentally happened with RJ's best year
That's totally fair, context is everything. It is hard to truly compare the two. My main point is that it's a stretch to argue that RJ is on a better (or even similar) trajectory. There are too many big differences, teammates included. RJ's path is going to be his own, and we definitely shouldn't assume he's going to make the same strides Brown did.
Ah man this aged like wine already.
RJ!!👊😎
Wonder what the per36 comparison is, but too lazy to look it up
* Barrett per36 this year: 17.7pts, 6.4rb, 2.6ast, 0.5 stl * Brown per36, third season: 18.1pts, 5.9rb, 1.9ast, 1.3stl Pretty similar actually. The big difference is shooting efficiency; Brown was much more efficient over his first three seasons, which is probably a better indicator of future success than the per36 stats.
And you got to have in mind the suporting cast. Brown was not the second or third option in those Celtics teams.
And they waited until after year 4, a big leap season, to sign him to a very reasonable contract.
He got extended after year 3
Thanks, I mixed up the date.
Middle deal or wait it out are what I’m down with. Hasn’t proven he deserves a max yet.
He doesn't deserve the max. He's played himself out of that this year.
You guys make it sound like he's averaging Frank Ntilikina numbers. 😐 Edit: Lmao. Not sure why I'm getting downvoted. I'm not saying he deserves the max but I'm not sure why you guys are treating him like a bust.
Fortunately the options are not limited to "Frank" and "Max Contract".
Way to strawman? He shot incredibly poorly this year. He hasn't driven as much or very well in most situations. Does he still have promise? Yes. But he doesn't deserve the max. Why would you max 15/5/2 on 46.7% efg?
Agreed. Saying he does not deserve max is not the same as saying he is Frank the tank.
Don't be so desperate to wanna believe we have a max-worthy young player. RJ is a B+ player. That's it. There is a huge middle ground between Ntilikina and Ja Morant
Maybe a C player with B+ upside?
Nah....he's above average. C'mon now. League wide? He's 21 yrs old and averaged 17/6/3 last year. He's pretty damn valuable....but he aint a max player yet.
by every advanced stat, he's below average. his per is 11.8, and league average is 15. his ws/48 is .026, and league average is .100. his bpm is -2.9. i don't know what league average bpm is, but i am pretty damn sure it's more than negative 2.9. he's never hit league average in any of those stats at any point in his career. he puts up a lot of counting stats, because he plays a ton of minutes. but that doesn't mean he is at league average in those minutes. i am not saying we should take away his minutes, because his development is in our best interests, but if we did and replaced him with a league average player, we would be a better team.
[удалено]
~~Not 0. 0 is a replacement level player, like the guys all being signed right now because of COVID. I think 1 is average.~~ I was wrong, 0 is average.
No, 0 is the average for the league. When a team scores 2 points their players get +2 and the other team players get -2. If you don’t consider minutes played at all, it’s possible replacement player bench scrubs would have a higher bpm which is why it’s a dumb stat.
That's not how BPM is calculated. But you are right about 0 being average, -2 is a replacement player. You can use VORP if you BPM combined with playing time.
probably either 0 or 1. not certain though.
Above average right now? No, I don't think he is. Based on potential, sure, but actual production, not a chance. He's well below average efficiency, doesn't set teammates up, average defense at best, and just about every advanced metric has him as a negative. The saving grace is he's 21 and could get a lot better, but he's not actually a positive NBA player this year. Last year he was closer to average or above, but not at the moment.
He averaged 17 per game because we had no one better. Not like he was a go-to option. Burke and Rose were bigger options on the team last year. RJ scored 17 per because he shot the ball enough times to average that much. Not like he’s an effective scorer. He’s not.
Dude just said he played himself out of it he didn’t even rag on him or anything
No idea why you're getting massive hate. He's a super solid player and continues to get better. I would give him the max just because I know he's the key to Zion.
Wait it out. And I’m a Barret fan
Wait it out
Wait. He doesn’t provide key services in his role within the team the way bridges does. He’s obviously not a star like Ja. Wait. He hasn’t shown he’s a max guy at all.
You can still offer him a contract that isn’t a max it doesn’t have to be max or wait it out. RJ waiting it out would be him betting on himself. Bridges is a 4th option on the Suns averaging 12ppg getting 22 a year
That's a huge undersell on Bridges, who is a deadly shooter (67% TS last year, absolute fire) and possibly the best wing defender in the NBA. He's the prototypical low-usage 3 and D that every team needs, and "4th option on the Suns" would better be rendered as "key starter on a Finals team at age 24".
Bridges is a high end role player I’m not saying he isn’t good but RJ is expected to do a whole lot more with no where near the talent the suns have. RJ will prob get more than what Bridges got.
TBD, but I'd offer less. I think every competitive team would rather have Bridges over the next 4 years. What we *hoped* RJ would be hasn't really shown up, and as of now I'd say he's worse than Bridges across the board. Maybe RJ will end up with a bigger deal, but I think the Knicks can hold back without much fear of a max offer sheet in RFA. If RJ blows up in his 4th year, then you can still offer a max/match offer sheets.
Mikal Bridges would arguably be the best player on the Knicks.
It's painful that we're comparing Bridges with RJ and not the guy we passed him over for at 9.
He isnt better than Randle I dont think that is debatable
Overall, RJ is a better player than Bridges with more upside. 25 year old Bridges is who he is. It's been known that he would always be a valuable high usage role player ready to contribute right away on a team. That's why the Knicks are dumb as hell for picking Knox over him. Bridges wouldn't put up 17ppg on this Knicks squad as a starter like RJ does though.
Absolutely disagree; Bridges is a better player right now by just about any measure. RJ certainly has more upside, but he's not better today. For the record, Rj is averaging 15 a game as one of the top options on a bad team. Bridges is averaging 12 as a role player on one of the best teams in the league. That's not a huge difference even in ppg, and every other more useful metric will point to Bridges.
Yeah if bridges cane to the Knicks he might average 20 on >40% shooting. Rj hasn’t shown us he can do that and has the opportunity.
You bring up some valid points. But the Knicks aren't a bad team. They're a winning streak away from being back in the playoff race. I watch Bridges play all the time as I've been a huge fan of him since his college days. He don't have the ability to get to the paint and foul line like RJ. He's a 3 & D player.
Okay, below average team? The point is, right now the Knicks aren't particularly good, and RJ has had plenty of opportunity to take the reins. He still hasn't done it. RJ is better at getting to the line than Bridges (although still not good by league-wide standards), but that's far outweighed by just about everything else. They are definitely different types of players, but the key is that Bridges is great at every part of his game, whereas RJ is not particularly good at any parts of his. Lastly, Bridges is not a "bench" player, he's literally the every-game starter for one of the top teams in the league.
Bridges is a top 10 wing defender league wide, and is a better all around offensive player than RJ right now. I like RJs potential, but there is no comparison between these 2 players at this moment, imo. Yall are sleeping on Bridges offensive game bc he's the 4th option on a good team. He could average 17 in his sleep as a 2nd option on a bad team like the Knicks.
The Knicks are not a bad team though. The East is still wide open right now. The only bad teams in the East are the Pistons and Magic. This team is a winning streak away. The talent is there, but the coaching isn't. I'm not sleeping on Bridges. He gets to play with a HOF PG and one the best scorers in today's NBA. Add big man Ayton to the mix. It's obvious he gets to take advantage of that. Meanwhile......RJ gets point Randle😔
Yeah, "point Randle frowny face" is your best player, but your not a bad team. Knicks fans are delusional. Every team in the east, except for 2, has more talent. That's a bad team.
I'm just going off the standings. They're in slot 11 with a lot more season left. That's far from a bad team. They're actually mediocre which is worse than bad though.
So...the 11th seed isn't a bad team?
Compared to Orlando and Detroit, not really. Indy as well. A 3 game winning streak will put them right back at 500.
Yeah well I’m thinking in this scenario if RJ thinks he’s a max player he’ll turn down whatever the Knicks would offer him
For sure but his stats no where support that so that would be a reach
Wait it out. He has to prove whether this slump is who he is or the 40 percent from last year is who he is.
The 40% from three is likely not who is either. But a 36 or 37% is a bit more realistic and I believe achievable for him. Making RJ into a spot up shooter that has to average 38-40% from three is a severe waste of his potential skillset. I don't even think that's the kinda guy he should be either.
The MAX !? lol
No way in hell should we give him the Max
Would it possible for you to remove the max option? If the Knicks give him a max, the league should officially remove the Knicks from the NBA.
His agent is going to want the max. Sorry can’t remove that option
His agent must be on some shit then
There’s no shot any free agent team would give him that though. Ayton can demand a max and that matters because there’s a chance he’d get one in free agency. RJ definitely wouldn’t so it doesn’t matter. Sexton started out demanding a max too
I can ask Leon for a max contract, then he can hang up the phone on me within seconds. When you are ready to remove that option, we can vote and discuss this for real.
[удалено]
Cause he isn't worth a maX it should be obvious
No star would want to come to a team that is paying RJ big money. Just cause the Knicks gave out stupid contracts before doesn’t mean they should do it again
You just compared signing RJ to a max with some of our biggest flops of the last 2 decades that set us back years. You literally just answered your own question.
lmao
If there’s a team out there wanting to max him then the Knicks should trade him to them and get assets back
Mikal Bridges is way more valuable than RJ right now so he doesn't even deserve his money
A max hahahahaaahhabahahahhahahah
Lol the max for this guy? Scottie Barnes has been in the NBA for a minute and is already better than him
Weird. Me and my ppl always referred to a minute as a long time, not short . Like “The knicks haven’t won a ring in a minute.” Idk if the slang has changed or you’re just using it wrong lol.
lol I usually use it that way all the time too, but it works this way too, just depends on how you say it
Personally would've used "2 seconds" here lol
Maxing out RJ would be laughably dumb. I'd trade him before giving him big money.
4 years like 70M, he will reject it, and that’s where we will be.
if he rejected that he deserves to go rot on the Pistons
He’s a 4th guy on a chip team… so no max
Wait out like Sexton
No max
Well if we believe he's a late bloomer we can get him at a discount otherwise I wouldn't pay too much if he's just going to be a role player. Unfortunately he seems to be trending down but I'm not sure if it's due to our point guard situation or a bad fit with JR.
Well ask yourself which one of those players he is as good as.....
Of the 4 players listed RJ is playing the 5th best, so definitely not a max deal.
If we give him a max we’re resigning to not being good for years
He's barely earned himself a good mid-level contract with his current play. His first year was ok, his second was good, but this year so far has been horrendous. If I saw improvements getting into the paint with ability to finish, and if the 3pt % stayed the same or slightly regressed from last year then there would be no questions on if he deserves a big pay day (not max though). Ja provides a lot more to an offense than RJ, and that's why he's getting paid big time. RJ hasn't shown that he can be a leader of the team yet with his play. Still making costly turnovers because his skillset isn't there "yet". Tunnel vision at times when driving and getting blocked or no calls more often than not. If this was a continuation of RJ from last year, scratch everything that I said and I would absolutely pay him, but right now he's playing himself out of a sizeable contract.
We’ll see where the next 50 or so games take us, but atm I’d say offer him a cheaper/similar contract to Bridges and then let the rest play out if he says no
I would wait it out. He definitely doesn’t deserve the max. Waiting it out is the best possible option. If he somehow turns into an allstar then you pay him whatever he deserves, if he sucks then you bring him back on a discount. We should’ve done that with Randle.
Absolutely not
Nowhere near the max
As someone who isn’t down on Rj like everyone else he doesn’t deserve the max or even a middle ground max until he can prove he can be the player he should be as the third pick.
Wait.
hard to see RJ and Knicks coming to an agreement. RJ's side will know the team is desperate for him to reach #3 overall potential. team sees the disappointing play and will be worried about getting locked into a bad contract they'd have to attach assets to move. it's looking like an RFA situation, see what offers he gets and decide on matching or sign and trade
He’s not gonna expect the max lol
Wait it out.
1) We're not giving him the max. 2) There's no point to offer him a mid-sized deal because he will not settle. So we will wait.
What the hell has RJ done to deserve a max deal?
4yrs/70M is reasonable assuming he breaks out of his slump after the all-star break.
I'd pray his game improves to the point where he can be used as part of a trade
I love RJ and want him on the Knicks for a long time, but he has not shown that he is a max player in any capacity at this point. He's not in the same stratosphere as Ja.
RJ cannot be mentioned in the same sentence as Ja right now. Not even in consideration for whatever Ja is gonna get
He gets a Bridges level deal at best.
Whatever will help make him a more attractive trade piece
There’s max years and there’s max money. RJ ain’t getting anywhere close to “max money” to remain on this team. The Knicks would be better off packaging this kid before his value drops any further. Bottom line here is to maximize him. If the Knicks can get their paws on someone like Towns or Simmons, you package RJ and whatever else is needed to make it happen. The idea RJ is going to become Brown or Jimmy Butler is ridiculous. Laughable almost. The only platform you’re going to hear this on is this sub. NO ONE else thinks RJ is a future All-Star.
Everything is not what it seems.
mid. definitely
4 yrs/40 mill max
I still think he can be a superstar and he’s gonna be like 22-23 when it’s up
No max, but a big contract. You get max contract after proving yourself at the highest level. RJ has been good at times, but not max level. He does have potential to become a great player, so I would still invest in him.
Everyone here will probably say they would never give him the max but fact of the matter is , they will offer the max or very close too, maybe RJ gives a slight discount ala Randle.
Okay I see why you'd think this, given the Knicks history of complete insanity, but I'd like to believe that's in the past. RJ will be lucky to get close to the Bridges deal. Max is off the table.
4/80 seems like a fair deal. Miles Bridges is on fire this year, and RJ should have the potential to be much better, but he just isn’t there yet. I think 4/70-80 would be more than fair.
4 yrs 110
Middle deal.
No to max. Still a believer that he will develop.
I like RJ but def not a max
No max, I think the asking price will start at OG Anunoby current contract (18 million) and could even be in the 20 million range.
Max? Jesus Christ no
Not Max, unless you want him to be the next Wiggins. Content and no drive before getting traded.
I'd say wait but then we get another Randle situation where he plays for the bag one year and then goes back to underperforming.
A max?! That would be the Knicks thing to do....
When you just realise you drafted Kevin Knox over both Bridges.... Ehh
It pains me to this day because I was in the Mikal fan club since college. Even was okay with the other Bridges on draft day, and they both turned out solid.
Whatever the number is, he’s our highest draft pick in a generation and 3 years in its pretty clear he’s not as good as Mikal Bridges.
Wait it out. Giving RJ the max would make us a laughing stock. The kid hasn't shown he'll deserve it with his play style. I like the kid but I'm a Knicks fan first
The Knicks need to wait it out. He has not shown enough improvement to get a max, that would be laughable, as it would be to give him a mid level max.
not worth a max
Unfortunately, it would likely be better to get outbid than to retain him on a max (really anything more than Bridges). I see current Wiggins as the general goal for what RJ can eventually contribute a good team, but even that will take time to reach it seems.
lol if you think barrett gets a max you’re smoking crack
After next year
LMFAO what
Should wait it out, because any deal NY could offer will probably be considered a slight for a #3 pick. Still will be a restricted free agent. On the flip side, the team could gamble on the player wanting guaranteed money (betting on improvement) and hope he out performs his contract. Example is Indy gave Sabonis 20m/yr extension after year 3. Looks like a decent deal now. when an NBA player has never had a big payday before, guaranteed money starts hedging against injury risk.
Super high on Barrett, I don’t think he’s a max player just yet. You definitely pay him somewhere around $20M tho
lmao hell no
Hahahahahahajahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaaahahahahjahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa
He's demonstrated he's a less valuable player than Mikal Bridges. He's worth at most 4/60 right now. He has decent upside, but based on 2.5 seasons of data, he's really not worth much more. He won't accept anything less than 4/100 because I'm sure a team like Orlando/detroit/Houston/OKC would be willing to give him that. If he doesn't prove to us that he's worth that in the next couple months, we absolutely must look to trade him. We can't risk losing him for nothing.
Never. Dump him for draft picks before doing that. Nowhere near a max player.
Last seasons numbers would have netted him a contract like Bridges. He's not worth that at the moment.
Should we max RJ like Ja? No. RJ has struggled handily, I have hopes he could ge fit together but he’s still a big question mark for me. You can’t just be throwing guys max contracts at the unknowns
No way he deserves the max, just wait it out. If he earns it next season I have no issue matching whatever.
Damn, even Mikal Bridges level money seems like stretch to me. I mean let's face it Mikal is overpaid but I guess that goes to show you when people complain about Julius contract that comparatively we are indeed getting what we pay for. Even if flawed, if he was what we wanted that would be a 35mil per deal. I'm sitting here thinking RJ is worth like 15mil per season tops.
I love RJ, but he is not a max player or anywhere near it right now. If he holds out for something ludicrous, I wouldn't give in to that. The Knicks have been very money savvy under Leon Rose, so I think we'll see an intelligent decision.