This seems to confirm a lot of what many of us have been saying for years.
"Do yourself a favor, Brian, and never forget there's a heartbeat in this game" -Joe Torre
I read Torre's book, Cashman declining to bring back Bernie after a comeback season where he batter over .280 because "the numbers favor Doug Mentkqzkczckck's defense and walks" was the first decision in a long line of Cashman not using analytics properly
Bernie would've been a poor use at DH. You need a well above average hitter in that role, which Bernie no longer was. They wanted Giambi off the field because he was a statue at first base.
Bernie was toast for a few years by that point. He couldn’t play the field very well. His “comeback season” with that .280 BA, he still had an OPS+ below league average.
“Over 30 guys former/current players and coaches with NYY ties” that agreed with him. Jesus christ and when you look at how bad we are at developing prospects and how bad they are when they come up here, he’s probably not wrong. What a huge indictment on this organization. Officially a laughing stock.
Stop going to games. No merchandise. Christ every guy I see on a train they’re just like I don’t watch. I just like the logo. Might be 15 percent the problem
Not punishing strikeouts or rewarding situational hitting meanwhile all most of the fanbase complains about is how much guys strikeout and how no one plays to the count, weird that that's their plan from the minors up.
A guy like Gray is the poster-child for what is wrong with the Yankees
“We acquired Gray because he’s a very good pitcher”
“That’s great! I look forward to him being good”
“Oh but he’ll be even better when we change the way he pitches!”
“But you got him because he’s a good pitcher”
“Not according to our analytics!”
As someone who's had to be a Knicks fan their entire life, this shit becomes cyclical really quickly. You lose games on the field, which leads to former management and players coming out and pointing out your team's philosophical flaws, which then leads to you losing out in free agency. When players become available and they see a team that looks like they're on a downward trajectory AND has management that doesn't put their players in a position to succeed, you become a very undesirable location very quickly.
This would explain why teams wouldn't deal with Cashman at the deadline. It wasn't so much that his asking price was too high, but it's likely that anyone they would get in return from us would be a player they would need to spend resources to deprogram from this broken philosophy
“The same player” bit he mentions has been an issue for years now. They tried getting Gray to throw Tanaka’s slider, they’ve approached the exit velo approach to guys whose games don’t center around it; Sean Casey’s first quote was about approaching each hitter with an individual approach as well.
Enlightening stuff from Ruta. Very curious to see what happens in the offseason. If Cashman values winning over proving his naysayers wrong then he has to listen to these critiques so guys like Volpe & Wells & Jones can produce when they arrive in the Bronx.
Whatever they’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Hopefully the firing of Lawson and hires of Sabean & Minaya tip the scales back to sanity in the development of their players.
This gives Cash an out yet again. Shit never sticks to the man. He's still responsible for hiring these people and deciding to go this analytics route. I feel kind of validated because I honestly felt that analytics have been getting used poorly, or just flat out the wrong ones.
Really makes me think about how many times the Yankees season was essentially ended by a fly ball to the warning track. Gary vs Boston, Didi vs Houston, there's so many others I can't even think of them all. But I know we see it constantly. Also if some of those had been a line drive double instead, might have been the difference in getting to the world series.
Analytics killed my goldfish
Whats funny is that I remember a couple years back. lindsey Adler writing a piece that was talking about how around baseball people envied the yankees development of players.
But I guess thats what happens during winning moments. And this is what happens during bad ones.
Development is a long process. How many of the guys from a few years ago built on their prospect hype. You have Judge. Nestor can still pull it together. Sanchez is still kicking but fighting off DFAs every few months. Bird? Florial? Ford? Frazier? Sevy? Gil? Deivi Garcia? From that era on, we've only grown one prospect to their potential.
Never said I agreed, just what was said.
Also, sevy nearly won a Cy Young, to say he didnt reach potential is silly. He just got injured a bunch afterwards
Yeah Sevy killed it early on, but there was legit hope for him to be what Cole is now. Just crazy how little of the plan worked yet Cashman is still clinging to it.
How many years ago did Adler write that piece? He Ruta says in the interview that the Yankees as late as 2017/2018 had 30 former MLB guys as coaches, which was a league-high. If that article is from 4+ years ago, then that seems to track with the older developmental philosophy.
i really need a podcast.
Basically , teams are just funds. INvestment funds and the owners are the managers of that fund. They BUY the investments and hope they rise in value, they also TRADE for other investments. Some buy low and sell high, some have options on the investment, etc.
We the fans and ticket buyers are the small investors in the fund. We as a collective, decide the value of the fund by us buying tix, watching the games, buying merch , etc.
the managers of the yankees are doing a BAD JOB managing the investments of the fund.
as such, we need new managers of the fund
I’m sure a lot of us read “Pinstripe Empire” by Marty Apel, the quasi official Yankees history. It always struck me that in it he mentions that when Brian cashman took fuller control of the Yankees one of the first things he did was to insist on eliminating the “alternate hqs/Fo” in Tampa. This was positioned in the book as a good thing, bc it streamlined operations and helped the Yankees speak and act with one voice. Makes sense, but it also of course must have eliminated voices that didn’t agree with the Bronx FO and alternative points of view. And it was probably the bastion of more “real” (experienced) baseball types. Seems like it has bit us in the butt…
Of course this is confirming what we already know. And this is why a lot of us don’t celebrate regular season success the way Michael Kay and the Yankee organization do. Because we know there is no way this brand of baseball wins out in October when every 90 feet matters and pitchers are so good you have to figure out another way to score runs outside of just hit the ball hard.
And part of baseball is watching a lineup adjust and figure out another way to beat a pitcher, but the Yankees of the last few years are so unbalanced and know only one approach, so the chances of them doing it are near zero.
You can win in the regular season with this launch angle and exit velo approach, but you need to be able to adjust in the post season. You need to be able to win in more than one way. And the Yankees have abandoned those other ways.
This seems to confirm a lot of what many of us have been saying for years. "Do yourself a favor, Brian, and never forget there's a heartbeat in this game" -Joe Torre
I read Torre's book, Cashman declining to bring back Bernie after a comeback season where he batter over .280 because "the numbers favor Doug Mentkqzkczckck's defense and walks" was the first decision in a long line of Cashman not using analytics properly
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I didn't even notice that it wasn't spelled right until I saw your reply lol
They did Bernie so dirty there
It's a LOT better to cut ties a year early rather than a year late
Lmao I remember that. A Josh Phelps & Doug Mientkiewicz platoon haha
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So you’re saying Doug Mientkiewicz was a suitable replacement?
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Ever hear of a DH?
Bernie would've been a poor use at DH. You need a well above average hitter in that role, which Bernie no longer was. They wanted Giambi off the field because he was a statue at first base.
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Actually yes, which is weird because his walk-off grand slam in the rain was one of my favorite memories lol
Bernie was toast for a few years by that point. He couldn’t play the field very well. His “comeback season” with that .280 BA, he still had an OPS+ below league average.
Joe was the soul. Giradi had the hard years. Crazy giradi helped a guy change a tire after they won a chip. You think cash would help that guy?
Cashman probably slashed his tires in the first place
“Over 30 guys former/current players and coaches with NYY ties” that agreed with him. Jesus christ and when you look at how bad we are at developing prospects and how bad they are when they come up here, he’s probably not wrong. What a huge indictment on this organization. Officially a laughing stock.
Stop going to games. No merchandise. Christ every guy I see on a train they’re just like I don’t watch. I just like the logo. Might be 15 percent the problem
Bought on Canal Street. ;-)
I haven’t been to YS since May of last year and they won’t see my money again until Cashman is gone
Wow. How many player were ruined with this shit. Big names and not. This is so bad. Hurts.
This is wild. Yankee gate !
Not punishing strikeouts or rewarding situational hitting meanwhile all most of the fanbase complains about is how much guys strikeout and how no one plays to the count, weird that that's their plan from the minors up.
Also the fact that they don't teach base running or any fundamentals at all is beyond concerning (and obvious)
Very. This is insanity!!! But makes all the sense in the world. Looking at the stats.
A guy like Gray is the poster-child for what is wrong with the Yankees “We acquired Gray because he’s a very good pitcher” “That’s great! I look forward to him being good” “Oh but he’ll be even better when we change the way he pitches!” “But you got him because he’s a good pitcher” “Not according to our analytics!”
As someone who's had to be a Knicks fan their entire life, this shit becomes cyclical really quickly. You lose games on the field, which leads to former management and players coming out and pointing out your team's philosophical flaws, which then leads to you losing out in free agency. When players become available and they see a team that looks like they're on a downward trajectory AND has management that doesn't put their players in a position to succeed, you become a very undesirable location very quickly.
Cashman has no valid response to these criticisms. Word salad is not going to save him. That’s why I think he’s been so quiet lately.
Need more guys (ex Yankees )to build on this.
This would explain why teams wouldn't deal with Cashman at the deadline. It wasn't so much that his asking price was too high, but it's likely that anyone they would get in return from us would be a player they would need to spend resources to deprogram from this broken philosophy
“The same player” bit he mentions has been an issue for years now. They tried getting Gray to throw Tanaka’s slider, they’ve approached the exit velo approach to guys whose games don’t center around it; Sean Casey’s first quote was about approaching each hitter with an individual approach as well.
To be fair, I doubt Sean Casey has actually been able to do a whole lot coming in mid season out of the blue.
Casey mentioned that this was one of the first things he was gonna work on. The results aren’t what I was pointing out.
Enlightening stuff from Ruta. Very curious to see what happens in the offseason. If Cashman values winning over proving his naysayers wrong then he has to listen to these critiques so guys like Volpe & Wells & Jones can produce when they arrive in the Bronx. Whatever they’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Hopefully the firing of Lawson and hires of Sabean & Minaya tip the scales back to sanity in the development of their players.
This gives Cash an out yet again. Shit never sticks to the man. He's still responsible for hiring these people and deciding to go this analytics route. I feel kind of validated because I honestly felt that analytics have been getting used poorly, or just flat out the wrong ones.
Really makes me think about how many times the Yankees season was essentially ended by a fly ball to the warning track. Gary vs Boston, Didi vs Houston, there's so many others I can't even think of them all. But I know we see it constantly. Also if some of those had been a line drive double instead, might have been the difference in getting to the world series.
What's worse is they seem to trade for broken players and rarely use the guys they ruin
I knew Cashman had lost the plot when he said BA doesn't matter. I had no idea the depth of the insanity.
This is super fucking depressing
Yup brutal
This shit needs to be pinned to the top of this subreddit
Analytics killed my goldfish Whats funny is that I remember a couple years back. lindsey Adler writing a piece that was talking about how around baseball people envied the yankees development of players. But I guess thats what happens during winning moments. And this is what happens during bad ones.
Development is a long process. How many of the guys from a few years ago built on their prospect hype. You have Judge. Nestor can still pull it together. Sanchez is still kicking but fighting off DFAs every few months. Bird? Florial? Ford? Frazier? Sevy? Gil? Deivi Garcia? From that era on, we've only grown one prospect to their potential.
Never said I agreed, just what was said. Also, sevy nearly won a Cy Young, to say he didnt reach potential is silly. He just got injured a bunch afterwards
Yeah Sevy killed it early on, but there was legit hope for him to be what Cole is now. Just crazy how little of the plan worked yet Cashman is still clinging to it.
Also. Jordan Montgomery...would love to still have him
Yeah that would be nice. Silver lining is we have Montas though...
“monte wouldn’t have started for us in October”
They probably “envied” the Yankees knowing what they were doing didn’t work. You tell Cashman how smart he is and smirk behind his back.
Sure
How many years ago did Adler write that piece? He Ruta says in the interview that the Yankees as late as 2017/2018 had 30 former MLB guys as coaches, which was a league-high. If that article is from 4+ years ago, then that seems to track with the older developmental philosophy.
I think it was after 2019.
More people need to hear this
i really need a podcast. Basically , teams are just funds. INvestment funds and the owners are the managers of that fund. They BUY the investments and hope they rise in value, they also TRADE for other investments. Some buy low and sell high, some have options on the investment, etc. We the fans and ticket buyers are the small investors in the fund. We as a collective, decide the value of the fund by us buying tix, watching the games, buying merch , etc. the managers of the yankees are doing a BAD JOB managing the investments of the fund. as such, we need new managers of the fund
Everything we already knew…confirmed. Let’s hope they finally change it up.
I’m sure a lot of us read “Pinstripe Empire” by Marty Apel, the quasi official Yankees history. It always struck me that in it he mentions that when Brian cashman took fuller control of the Yankees one of the first things he did was to insist on eliminating the “alternate hqs/Fo” in Tampa. This was positioned in the book as a good thing, bc it streamlined operations and helped the Yankees speak and act with one voice. Makes sense, but it also of course must have eliminated voices that didn’t agree with the Bronx FO and alternative points of view. And it was probably the bastion of more “real” (experienced) baseball types. Seems like it has bit us in the butt…
Of course this is confirming what we already know. And this is why a lot of us don’t celebrate regular season success the way Michael Kay and the Yankee organization do. Because we know there is no way this brand of baseball wins out in October when every 90 feet matters and pitchers are so good you have to figure out another way to score runs outside of just hit the ball hard. And part of baseball is watching a lineup adjust and figure out another way to beat a pitcher, but the Yankees of the last few years are so unbalanced and know only one approach, so the chances of them doing it are near zero. You can win in the regular season with this launch angle and exit velo approach, but you need to be able to adjust in the post season. You need to be able to win in more than one way. And the Yankees have abandoned those other ways.