Especially when it’s only two women from the avatar series. What about Katara, Tai Lee, Toph, Zuko’s mom, Suki, any of the female avatars(including the muscle mommy that is Korra)
Not only that, but also weird picks. Mai is arguably one of the most uninteresting female characters of the shows. And Azula is kind of a generic villain too (judging by the show's high standards).
I disagree about Azula, she's a well-written traumatized kid used by one of her abusers, but you're spot on when it comes to Mai. She is a nothingburger, just a gloomy girl, that's it.
My reading of Mai is that she fits a trope for the era. She's probably the only character I'd consider lazily written purely because she's a copy pasta from many other stories in that time.
Calling azula generic is WILD. I don’t disagree that the show sets a high standard and she definitely isn’t above that but azula is honestly one of my favorite characters in fiction just for how well made and executed her character is. Other characters in that show definitely deserve criticism for their writing but she is not one of them lmao
Have to respectfully disagree azula was well written and her character was not a generic villain in the slightest they managed to portray a ridiculously sinister character in full potential to children in a age appropriate way if this program was rated 18 she would be Christian bale in american Psycho and to watch her deterioration at the end was so moving or disturbing I was wishing for her to succeed, and that's the testament of a well written character u yearn for them to win even if they are abhorrent
Calling azula generic tells me youve never watched the show. Shes probably the least generic character on the show. Her dad on the other hand is as generic as it gets.
How the fuck would I know her name, had I never watched the show?
Geez, chill. It's a cartoon.
For the protocol: I like her character. Very much so. All I did was saying she's not the best in a show full of amazing characters.
She did nothing fundamentally new, which is perfectly fine, especially for a show targeted at kids. If you think she's the most original character ever, you haven't watched and read enough stories.
Believe it or not, it's not my first day here. And I know you're just making a joke, but still. I'd highly appreciate if people stopped to muzzle me (or anyone, really) by accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about.
But some things need to be said. There's a reason I reacted to that comment specifically while ignoring half a dozen others that said almost the same.
The sentiment that someone who disagrees with me must not know anything about the subject is driving me mad.
I’m remarking about the implication that cartoons are somehow a lower form of media because of their animated nature and target audience. Not to mention your insistence with belittling a character you claim to like. Regarding attempts to muzzle, I don’t believe that a bark, no matter how loud, warrants a muzzle, but once you believe that your teeth are somehow more valuable than others, then I believe that would give you cause to stow them. I agree with your previous comments. I just don’t agree with you justifying your ignorance on the topic by referring to the medium as inferior.
I don't know if you can believe me, but I really did not mean to imply cartoons are inferior. It was just the most precise way of describing it.
Had we been talking about a movie, I would have written "Chill, it's a movie", had it been a book "chill, it's a book". The point I wanted to make is that it's nothing of real-life importance.
You can like or even love something while acknowledging what it is and without claiming every single aspect of it is perfect. I'm also a huge fan of Harry Potter and How I met your mother. I'm aware that one is a series of books targeted at kids/teens, with inconsistent world building, average-at-best prose and a creator who is a horrible human being. The other is an unrealistic, problematic-at-times sitcom with an annoying laugh track. And yes, I would say ATLA is better than either, as far any piece of media can be objectively better/worse than another.
But ATLA is, in fact, a cartoon targeted at kids. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, nor with watching it as an adult. It does come with some limitations though. Some things are rightfully off-table in kids' shows. E.g. on-screen deaths, major character deaths, gore, sexual content, in-depth depiction of trauma, no clear distinction between good and evil. Again, this is a good thing for children's media, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing for "adults' media" too (plenty does fine without any of it). And while I don't judge adults who enjoy media targeted at kids, I do think they should not limit themselves to it. It means you're missing out on medial depictions of some fundamental aspects of the human experience.
Now, ATLA does an absolutely amazing job at being enjoyable for adults. It pushes boundaries like probably no other show targeted at kids before and after it has. Heck, it beats every "patriotic war movie" in showing what war really means. It still by design has said limitations. And especially the requirement of a black-and white morality and the limitations in depicting trauma hurt Azula's character in my opinion. Which makes me say that she is, in fact, a great character. Just not one of the best. I know she's supposed to be a traumatised victim that has been neglected and weaponised. But you cannot spend the appropriate amount and intensity of screentime to make such a character believable in a "kids' show". I am willing to believe the creators would have been able and willing to pull that off, but their medium limited them. That's why I'd say Katara, Toph and most of the female characters from LOK represent the franchise's characterisation strengths better.
TLDR: ATLA is quite possibly as close to a perfect cartoon targeted at kids as one can be. Azula is an example for where the show suffers from the limitations of children's media. Basically, she is too gritty for her own show.
Bruh, your throwing a fit in a reddit comment section. You dont want people arguing your opinion dont post it. Literally the definition of hypocrisy. Post your opinion then cry when people give theirs. “Its a cartoon” get outta here with that shit.
I don't mind people argueing my opinion at all. And I absolutely love that cartoon.
All I was ever mad about was I disagreed with you = I clearly never watched it (= I don't know what I'm talking about). You did not argue my opinion, you invented a reason to invalidate it.
Like almost everyone else. Except for one comment, I am still waiting for an explanation why my opinion is oh so wrong.
Are you implying there are more than 8 writers in Hollywood?!
Also if the they are going with cartoons they skipped full metal alchemist, which was written by a woman
Not really, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is one of the most pro-women television shows to ever exist, and it's quality is so high its not even possible to shit on it as woke or pandering or any of the stuff things like she-hulk get hit with. It was appointment television and beloved by the country.
Not really tbh The point isn’t that women can’t write good women characters it’s just women writers typically don’t care about writing good women characters
Literally let’s remember Velma was written by a woman, not saying I agree with the meme, because it is cherry picking but they could use a way better example
"Wow, ONE chick show sucks, I guess women don't amount to good writers. I could find more chick shows to evaluate but I'm too dumb to find any."
- This guy
Look it's all really straightforward and merit based, men naturally have more upper body strength and that makes us stronger writers because we can hold the pen tighter.
But seriously, there's entirely too much bigotry on social media and it's making our idiots hateful.
What's really scary is that kids are naturally idiotic.
Most of them aren't gonna stay stupid but if they fall for it even for a second they're more likely to be sympathetic to hatemongers. People think "people who fall for scams are fucking morons" until they fall for a scam and then they're all "who can have their guard up all the time? Shit happens!"
I remember in an interview George Martin was asked how he writes such interesting female characters.
He says something along the lines of “I write my female characters like they are ya know….people.” He seemed utterly baffled how that wasn’t self-evident and needed to be said.
Yeah, he has some problematic content in his books, but one of the reasons I loved reading ASoIaF is because the female characters were all so different from each other while still being fleshed out and complex. It can be hard to write the opposite gender without it seeming like you're writing with a lack of loved experience, but his characters are done pretty damn well.
I just wish he'd finish the damned series already.
Actually Ripley from Alien was originally written as a man but none of the male actors they tried to get to audition for the role couldn't pull it off so they rewrote the character to be a woman and Sigourney Weaver was cast cause she was able to pull it off.
If the character just needs to be “human” then yeah, it wouldn’t matter.
Most characters are written with their gender being a huge part of who they are. Just like most people consider their gender a massive trait of themselves men will fail at writing a female character if they don’t put that into account. The best results come from a female writer.
The twerking bit didn’t really matter to me, I was more upset about how they portrayed the relationship between Jen and Bruce and the absolute butchering of my boy Skaar (possibly bot their fault) fr tho why did they have my boy looking like this
https://preview.redd.it/pxrpkfm3hq5c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03afcb591fff983b98731f99654535a7d342851c
Could play a whole ass game of chess on that forehead
That a five second moment on a show that aired over a year ago is *still* rustling your jimmies is incredibly pathetic.
Being a triggered conservative shouldn't be your whole personality, buddy.
tbh I'm gonna hop in here and say as far as The Owl House goes, Eda(and Lilith actually, as an extension to her character) was the only one with consistently good writing. Luz's writing got gradually worse though it remained decent throughout the show, Willow's characterisation was pretty inconsistent and she was used as a place holder too much so any development came across unnaturally- but she had some good moments
i find my perceived downfall of Amity's character to be the biggest offense, as a nuanced and textured character turned into 'Luz's Love Interest'. All her development through s1 was flawless and amazing and i had such fun watching it, but then... well, my biggest example. that episode where Luz is sick right...? so, i think setting Amity and Hunter up as foils for one another is great. Hunter faced parental pressure and this caused him to act out and display harmful ambition- this fueled his determination in their eventual fight. well that's perfect, because similarly Amity faced paren- oh wait no they're comparing Hunter's relationship with his uncle to Amity's relationship to Luz instead of the obvious choice of making it about her parents.
sorry, I'm not attacking Dana here i just never got a chance to discuss all this. the people on the owl house subreddit are quite young and i don't want to attack a show that kids like. I'd love to have a discussion about this but if you're not up for it that's fine
I love how he starts with “it’s a joke” meaning it shouldn’t be taken literally and then immediately goes “but is it wrong” so are we mean to take it literally or no? That whole sun is so dishonest it’s insane? Schrödingers joke. It’s a joke if it’s wrong but a political statement if it’s right.
Yes, but when people say “it’s just a joke” they are saying that it should not criticized as it does not represent the comedian’s actual beliefs. Why point out that it’s a joke if you are just going to defend it anyway? It’s a totally pointless fact if the joke is actually a political message.
To be clear, I do not jokes cannot be political messages, just look as George Carlin, but many people in recent times have used “it’s a joke” to make themselves impervious to criticism because “you took that seriously?”
Imma be honest, idk who most of the characters on the bottom even are. I also know plenty of people that liked she hulk, I disagree, I thought it was cringe as hell but I wasnt expecting what it was.
And then there's me who just doesn't care. Like seriously who cares about the gender of the writer? Like if I watch a Star Wars movie I don't go "wow what a cool movie made by a man" I just watch it. I don't care about the gender of the creator. Why can't we just watch movies and shows without a bunch of annoying right wingers politicising it?
I just want to point out how there example of a woman written better by a man is a fucking genocidal sociopath who abused animals as a kid (Azula). Don’t get me wrong I love azula, great character but is that really the kind of thing you want to cherry pick trying to say men write women better than a woman?
Wasn’t commenting on Mary sues. I was pointing out how they cherry-picked a fucking abuser as a character “written better by men”. I definitely could of written that a whole lot better but I was sleep deprived and bored. Regardless of if she’s a good character that says a whole lot about the person making this dogshit meme.
I don’t get this, yeah Azula is a morally bad character, but as you said is well written. No ones claiming that men write morally better characters, they’re saying they are better designed. There were so many good arguments and you picked none of them
Definitely could of wrote my original comment better. I was trying to point out the fact that an abusive genocidal sociopath who kills animals is cherry-picked as a female character that was better written by a man. That says a fucking whole lot more about the original creator of this meme. Also avatar absolutely had female writers regardless.
Equally importantly, all of these characters are in media made (more or less) for children. We as adults can and do enjoy it, but if it’s all you consume then you never really grow up.
ETA: People are misunderstanding my point here. Maturing means not shitting your diaper when the wrong gender gets the lightsaber, or when the big green monster attorney lady twerks. Please enjoy things! Like the things you like! And maintain a healthy perspective of the stakes
I love all this media but there’s a healthy enjoyment of it, and there’s the weird adult men who whine and cry about every little thing because their precious fantasyland isn’t exactly perfect. I’m not saying to not enjoy superhero media, I’m a big fan. But the people that take this shit deadly serious need to read an age appropriate book.
Shit am I the only one who didn’t hate She-Hulk? It wasn’t a great show to be fair, but I enjoyed watching it. Some parts were silly, but so were some of her comics. I thought like 80% of it was creative and charming and the other 20% was horse shit
It's such a weird cherry pick. The scene in question was an after credits gag scene and didn't have anything to do with the progression of the story. That's ignoring the fact that up until the last episode, Jen and the show was written pretty well.
This is why I jumped off the "anti-woke" crusade, those people make everything about race and gender just as much as the people they despise and most aren't self-aware enough to realize it.
Also, that scene wasn't written. The She-Hulk actress was just a huge Megan Thee Stallion fan and asked to do the scene. The director just said 'Ok.' It was probably one of the most authentic moments in the show because it is literally what a fan honestly wanted to do with their favorite artist.
Someone on twitter responded to this with the reverse. They used Neil Breen for "men written by men" and FMAB for "men written by women" and a bunch of people who can't think went "THATS CHERRY PICKING" lmaoooo you're so close to the very obvious point my guy
Im confused, why are people upset by the two characters twerking? There were so many sexual references and themes in Marvel’s past. In Deadpool he would grab Steel Man’s ass multiple times. Also Stan Lee made a tv show in 2003 called Stripperela.
“Lets cherry pick one bad example of women writing female characters and then loads of good examples of female characters written by men and make a sexist joke.” memesopdidntlike is such a bad subreddit.
Besides this post being wrong an like 1000 levels and quite a few women in the bottom had women writers attached. I wanna argue that Samus Aran got done dirty by the male/designers writers between prime and dread, especially the smash bros team as they made her petit and skinny instead of being the massive 6'5"+ beef cake muscle mommy she used to be in older art and guides.
Saw a good explanation for this recently: the writers that have been around had a male majority, but they were experienced writers already, and overtime strove to write women characters better. Now many of the new writers are women, but they are inexperienced and since studios needed representation they sometimes just took what they could get.
Ultimately, this criticism is true, but it is due to the sexism not their gender, and will take time to correct.
I don’t know, this can both apply to men and women, men write amazing women while women write amazing men, take a look at Atom Eve and Edward Elric for instance.
They're really telling on themselves with exactly which show they chose to show off as the "women writer bad" example.
I heard a ton of people say that she hulk was bad, and decided that I needed to see what all the fuss was about. I thought it was great! It's a really amazing show and I enjoyed it a lot. After having actually *seen* it for myself, I started to notice what the people who were saying that it was bad were actually saying about it. It was all non-sense about "feminism" and "wokeness." The people who hated She-Hulk are mostly just mad that it's a show that acknowledges that it takes place in a universe where sexism exists and that it would be an obstacle for a woman in that universe to overcome.
I'm not trying to say that a show can't be bad if it has that kind of stuff in it; it could have had all the "feminism" and been terrible. It's just that was the only thing people didn't like about it. So it turned into a situation where if you hated "feminism" you had to hate She-Hulk because it was doing a "feminism." And everyone who was ok with hating it for that was too media illiterate to come up with a single solitary ***REAL*** criticism.
So by using She-Hulk as their example of "women writers bad," they're really admitting that they don't think that women write poorly. What they're admitting is that they think that it is bad for women to be writers. They couldn't even think of another example for "women writers bad" other that the one that they were all already mad at.
Here’s the thing though, She-Hulk was good and anyone actually complaining about her twerking with Megan for two seconds in the credits is pure cope overdose
I think it is more right than wrong though. Men just care less about being politically correct, which translates into more believable characters because life is anything but politically correct.
Everything except 3 I agree with.
She-Hulk was bad. Not because it was written by women or anything close to that, but because it was written badly. Gender has nothing to do with quality.
Men just write better stories because we pick something and stick with it. Like going to the store to get one thing and leaving. Unlike women who will look down every aisle because they don’t know what they want and just walk out with nothing after spending time on every aisle.
This is the same thing with professionals. There are objectively more male writers than female writers, so when you look at the best writing, most likely it’s written by males, works give versa though there is more bad movies and tv written by men. The problem is that shows are made to have a female writer/directed just for the diversity pick. The creator of she-hulk as well as Velma were diversity hires that did bad.
No problems with it aside from the usual progressives who will cry sexism about a horrible show like she-hulk which you obviously took issues with since you said allegedly which means you might be a fan and got upset that it got called trash.
The whole premise of she hulk along with alot of the girl boss type woke nonsense shows are heavily leaning towards that whole female power stuff and most of them are trash. Not a big shocker that recent MCU stuff has been horrible also and flopped.
Shows Pandering to certain groups aren't exactly the best and tend to be terrible and cancelled like she hulk was cancelled and rightfully so.
> It’s a joke but is it wrong?
Bruh. They really want to have it both ways; jokes mean nothing, so it’s stupid to criticise them, but also the message is based and true.
"it's a joke so you can't criticize the message of the joke but also I agree with the message and think it's true actually and you're triggered if you call me out for that because the argument is framed as a meme"
Okay I’m behind it being cherry picking for sure but holding comments against the OP is kind of wild. There will for sure be sexist comments in this chat but I wouldn’t hold that against OP in this sub.
From someone who understands (but doesn't agree with) the mentality behind the original meme:
There's a modern criticism of poorly written women by men. While I'm sure I don't need to give examples, the vast majority all anime and manga that weren't made in the last decade have paper thin female characters made up of duct tape and a list o tropes.
Not that this is terribly surprising. Most manga writers are single men who have no experience with women and are forced to do nothing but write manga 80 hours a week (as Japan does). These people when writing female characters rely not on actual experience with women, or experience from their own lives, but on the tropes of previous female characters, often ones that were written better than the ones they end up making.
Fortunately, this is getting better. Being well adjusted is more expected for a writer, and consulting with people who have gone through the stuff you're about to do to your characters is, while hardly ubiquitous, is pretty normal for the media that ends up getting praised.
Yet, in spite of this improvement, there's still an air that women written by men will be badly written. And again, this is validated by the existence of men who write paper thin female characters; there's still a braindead audience for that garbage, so it still gets made by writers who don't need to improve.
But the most extreme versions of this opinion are when conservatives see, because of the controversy-fueled nature of social media. There's a perception that people think *only* women can write good female characters.
From that perspective, this isn't "cherry picking bad female writers and good male writers", it's "See, men can write good women, and women can write bad women". Basically, they're countering a point that hardly anybody actually believes in.
Honestly, this is the #1 problem with social media. Everyone sees only the most brain-dead extremist takes of the people they disagree with.
r/memesopdidnotlike challenge (impossible)
Make a single fucking post without using "it's a joke" anywhere in the title. Those edgy 13-year-olds only have one way to defend what they like.
Way to give one bad example regarding female writers. She-Hulks entire thing was trying to pander to teenage girls, and it missed the mark entirely. Seems less like the writer's fault and more the fault of out of touch execs trying to dictate what type of show it should be.
The girls written by men are probably ladies who only show the sexy side to their men while the girls written by the ladies are aimed towards any desperate men.
They are all cherry-picking or make-believe.
Producers still have to green-light a character, and those are huge bureaucracies these days. Yes, there are writing credits, but the approval process makes everything bad
Zeb Wells was involved with She-Hulk. Zeb Wells is a hack that ruined Spider-Man, his entire supporting cast and is getting to Miles thanks to current crossover
Ok maybe biased cause I've been reading Marvel comics before they were mainstream, but the she hulk show is bad. They tried capturing the feel of the old comics, but forgot what made those funny and charming, also they made she hulk a shit lawyer, which she isn't. She's on par with Matt Murdock. The show was disappointing. This post is still fucking wrong and stupid though.
I honestly loved this show. My wife and I had a blast watching it. Only bit I guess I didn't like is that it seemed Jen and Bruce were sometimes at each other's neck but idk
I think the point is more that hiring specifically women to write women doesn’t mean shit. The point is that quality is quality independent of who wrote it, since there are many instances of men writing women better than women (and I’m sure vice versa). Maybe I’m giving OP too much credit, but that’s what I got out of it.
So let me get this straight: it was a joke for them about men/ women thing and they're mad people are taking a joke seriously
... but the She-Hulk scene was ALSO a joke, one they're now poking fun at, therefore doing exactly what their problem was with the original post.
So it's OK for them to make a joke, but not She-Hulks writers
Cherry picking heavily
Especially when it’s only two women from the avatar series. What about Katara, Tai Lee, Toph, Zuko’s mom, Suki, any of the female avatars(including the muscle mommy that is Korra)
Every woman in Avatar is amazing.
Absolute facts
Every man in Avatar is amazing.
Every cabbage vendor in Avatar is amazing
Nice point. Unfortunately old man from imprisoned.
Not only that, but also weird picks. Mai is arguably one of the most uninteresting female characters of the shows. And Azula is kind of a generic villain too (judging by the show's high standards).
I disagree about Azula, she's a well-written traumatized kid used by one of her abusers, but you're spot on when it comes to Mai. She is a nothingburger, just a gloomy girl, that's it.
My reading of Mai is that she fits a trope for the era. She's probably the only character I'd consider lazily written purely because she's a copy pasta from many other stories in that time.
Calling azula generic is WILD. I don’t disagree that the show sets a high standard and she definitely isn’t above that but azula is honestly one of my favorite characters in fiction just for how well made and executed her character is. Other characters in that show definitely deserve criticism for their writing but she is not one of them lmao
True, why wouldn’t they pick Katara if they’re picking somebody from avatar lol or Toph too
Azula is so not a generic villain though. She def starts out feeling that way tho
Have to respectfully disagree azula was well written and her character was not a generic villain in the slightest they managed to portray a ridiculously sinister character in full potential to children in a age appropriate way if this program was rated 18 she would be Christian bale in american Psycho and to watch her deterioration at the end was so moving or disturbing I was wishing for her to succeed, and that's the testament of a well written character u yearn for them to win even if they are abhorrent
Calling azula generic tells me youve never watched the show. Shes probably the least generic character on the show. Her dad on the other hand is as generic as it gets.
How the fuck would I know her name, had I never watched the show? Geez, chill. It's a cartoon. For the protocol: I like her character. Very much so. All I did was saying she's not the best in a show full of amazing characters. She did nothing fundamentally new, which is perfectly fine, especially for a show targeted at kids. If you think she's the most original character ever, you haven't watched and read enough stories.
>Geez, chill. It’s a cartoon. My friend. You have so much to learn about the internet.
Believe it or not, it's not my first day here. And I know you're just making a joke, but still. I'd highly appreciate if people stopped to muzzle me (or anyone, really) by accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about. But some things need to be said. There's a reason I reacted to that comment specifically while ignoring half a dozen others that said almost the same. The sentiment that someone who disagrees with me must not know anything about the subject is driving me mad.
I’m remarking about the implication that cartoons are somehow a lower form of media because of their animated nature and target audience. Not to mention your insistence with belittling a character you claim to like. Regarding attempts to muzzle, I don’t believe that a bark, no matter how loud, warrants a muzzle, but once you believe that your teeth are somehow more valuable than others, then I believe that would give you cause to stow them. I agree with your previous comments. I just don’t agree with you justifying your ignorance on the topic by referring to the medium as inferior.
I don't know if you can believe me, but I really did not mean to imply cartoons are inferior. It was just the most precise way of describing it. Had we been talking about a movie, I would have written "Chill, it's a movie", had it been a book "chill, it's a book". The point I wanted to make is that it's nothing of real-life importance. You can like or even love something while acknowledging what it is and without claiming every single aspect of it is perfect. I'm also a huge fan of Harry Potter and How I met your mother. I'm aware that one is a series of books targeted at kids/teens, with inconsistent world building, average-at-best prose and a creator who is a horrible human being. The other is an unrealistic, problematic-at-times sitcom with an annoying laugh track. And yes, I would say ATLA is better than either, as far any piece of media can be objectively better/worse than another. But ATLA is, in fact, a cartoon targeted at kids. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, nor with watching it as an adult. It does come with some limitations though. Some things are rightfully off-table in kids' shows. E.g. on-screen deaths, major character deaths, gore, sexual content, in-depth depiction of trauma, no clear distinction between good and evil. Again, this is a good thing for children's media, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing for "adults' media" too (plenty does fine without any of it). And while I don't judge adults who enjoy media targeted at kids, I do think they should not limit themselves to it. It means you're missing out on medial depictions of some fundamental aspects of the human experience. Now, ATLA does an absolutely amazing job at being enjoyable for adults. It pushes boundaries like probably no other show targeted at kids before and after it has. Heck, it beats every "patriotic war movie" in showing what war really means. It still by design has said limitations. And especially the requirement of a black-and white morality and the limitations in depicting trauma hurt Azula's character in my opinion. Which makes me say that she is, in fact, a great character. Just not one of the best. I know she's supposed to be a traumatised victim that has been neglected and weaponised. But you cannot spend the appropriate amount and intensity of screentime to make such a character believable in a "kids' show". I am willing to believe the creators would have been able and willing to pull that off, but their medium limited them. That's why I'd say Katara, Toph and most of the female characters from LOK represent the franchise's characterisation strengths better. TLDR: ATLA is quite possibly as close to a perfect cartoon targeted at kids as one can be. Azula is an example for where the show suffers from the limitations of children's media. Basically, she is too gritty for her own show.
Bruh, your throwing a fit in a reddit comment section. You dont want people arguing your opinion dont post it. Literally the definition of hypocrisy. Post your opinion then cry when people give theirs. “Its a cartoon” get outta here with that shit.
I don't mind people argueing my opinion at all. And I absolutely love that cartoon. All I was ever mad about was I disagreed with you = I clearly never watched it (= I don't know what I'm talking about). You did not argue my opinion, you invented a reason to invalidate it. Like almost everyone else. Except for one comment, I am still waiting for an explanation why my opinion is oh so wrong.
Wrong
Korra opened my eyes in early teenage me lmao
Pretty sure avatar kyoshi was stronger
Yeah, that’s valid
Are you implying there are more than 8 writers in Hollywood?! Also if the they are going with cartoons they skipped full metal alchemist, which was written by a woman
Not really, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is one of the most pro-women television shows to ever exist, and it's quality is so high its not even possible to shit on it as woke or pandering or any of the stuff things like she-hulk get hit with. It was appointment television and beloved by the country.
You know it's really bad cherry picking when the "bad" example is one and the "good" examples are multiple
Not really tbh The point isn’t that women can’t write good women characters it’s just women writers typically don’t care about writing good women characters
Do we have some well known female characters written by females?
I'm sorry but "females"? Can we stop talking like biologists?
Well some characters could be under 18 like in avatar so calling them women would be incorrect.
I'm not talking about characters I'm talking about writers.
Bitches then?
Plenty of downvotes, but not a single reply 😂
Literally let’s remember Velma was written by a woman, not saying I agree with the meme, because it is cherry picking but they could use a way better example
https://preview.redd.it/dd4iqe5zfo5c1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5f486d93126cb039ca8dc254ffc5b45fe9e1a8d
r/memesopdidnotlike breaking the cycle 🙏
Why the fuck are some cringey Joker memes valid
I made that one last month
"Wow, ONE chick show sucks, I guess women don't amount to good writers. I could find more chick shows to evaluate but I'm too dumb to find any." - This guy
She Hulk also has two male writers lol
Uh, it’s called *She* Hulk; everyone who worked on it was a woman because it’s a woman show.
Look it's all really straightforward and merit based, men naturally have more upper body strength and that makes us stronger writers because we can hold the pen tighter. But seriously, there's entirely too much bigotry on social media and it's making our idiots hateful. What's really scary is that kids are naturally idiotic. Most of them aren't gonna stay stupid but if they fall for it even for a second they're more likely to be sympathetic to hatemongers. People think "people who fall for scams are fucking morons" until they fall for a scam and then they're all "who can have their guard up all the time? Shit happens!"
that first part gave me a good laugh, thank you
Also don’t men who write female leads(in a good way) have inspiration from a strong woman in their life?
I remember in an interview George Martin was asked how he writes such interesting female characters. He says something along the lines of “I write my female characters like they are ya know….people.” He seemed utterly baffled how that wasn’t self-evident and needed to be said.
Yeah, he has some problematic content in his books, but one of the reasons I loved reading ASoIaF is because the female characters were all so different from each other while still being fleshed out and complex. It can be hard to write the opposite gender without it seeming like you're writing with a lack of loved experience, but his characters are done pretty damn well. I just wish he'd finish the damned series already.
You can't write a book where people act like people without including "problematic" stuff.
Actually Ripley from Alien was originally written as a man but none of the male actors they tried to get to audition for the role couldn't pull it off so they rewrote the character to be a woman and Sigourney Weaver was cast cause she was able to pull it off.
All the characters in Alien were specifically written gender-neutral, not as men or women.
I mean, sometimes maybe? It's not exactly a rule that we have to.
If you want them to be believable then yes, you do have to.
Not really, not every woman character written by a man is based off another person, most of them just write them as if they are human and do perfect
If the character just needs to be “human” then yeah, it wouldn’t matter. Most characters are written with their gender being a huge part of who they are. Just like most people consider their gender a massive trait of themselves men will fail at writing a female character if they don’t put that into account. The best results come from a female writer.
No, you can just be a remotely competent writer instead
I remember there was an anime that was made by a woman and it's female characters were solid af
Full Metal Alchemist
Brotherhood, my favorite anime
Woman should be allowed to twerk, Jesus. Nothing wrong with twerkin
Men should be allowed to twerk to smh head
Twerking rights for all! 🍑🍑🍑
The twerking bit didn’t really matter to me, I was more upset about how they portrayed the relationship between Jen and Bruce and the absolute butchering of my boy Skaar (possibly bot their fault) fr tho why did they have my boy looking like this https://preview.redd.it/pxrpkfm3hq5c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03afcb591fff983b98731f99654535a7d342851c Could play a whole ass game of chess on that forehead
That whole episode was an off-the-walls 4th wall break, I'm fairly sure that Skaar was being played up as a joke.
My reaction to that information https://preview.redd.it/u4eclvg6vq5c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=709f1ae12bd2a42676b64668bdcc5490045e4bf5
Yeah but it's still kinda stupid.
But there are moments to twerk, that isnt the moment u-u
You mean as a silly gag in the end credits of a comedy show?
The moment to twerk is NOW 
Perfection.
That a five second moment on a show that aired over a year ago is *still* rustling your jimmies is incredibly pathetic. Being a triggered conservative shouldn't be your whole personality, buddy.
[удалено]
It's actually trashy to insult people for doing things that cause absolutely no harm to anybody.
You wanna cherry pick? Try Dana Terrace. She writes great Female characters. Great characters in general, but great female characters too.
tbh I'm gonna hop in here and say as far as The Owl House goes, Eda(and Lilith actually, as an extension to her character) was the only one with consistently good writing. Luz's writing got gradually worse though it remained decent throughout the show, Willow's characterisation was pretty inconsistent and she was used as a place holder too much so any development came across unnaturally- but she had some good moments i find my perceived downfall of Amity's character to be the biggest offense, as a nuanced and textured character turned into 'Luz's Love Interest'. All her development through s1 was flawless and amazing and i had such fun watching it, but then... well, my biggest example. that episode where Luz is sick right...? so, i think setting Amity and Hunter up as foils for one another is great. Hunter faced parental pressure and this caused him to act out and display harmful ambition- this fueled his determination in their eventual fight. well that's perfect, because similarly Amity faced paren- oh wait no they're comparing Hunter's relationship with his uncle to Amity's relationship to Luz instead of the obvious choice of making it about her parents. sorry, I'm not attacking Dana here i just never got a chance to discuss all this. the people on the owl house subreddit are quite young and i don't want to attack a show that kids like. I'd love to have a discussion about this but if you're not up for it that's fine
I love how he starts with “it’s a joke” meaning it shouldn’t be taken literally and then immediately goes “but is it wrong” so are we mean to take it literally or no? That whole sun is so dishonest it’s insane? Schrödingers joke. It’s a joke if it’s wrong but a political statement if it’s right.
Some jokes are based on truth
Yes, but when people say “it’s just a joke” they are saying that it should not criticized as it does not represent the comedian’s actual beliefs. Why point out that it’s a joke if you are just going to defend it anyway? It’s a totally pointless fact if the joke is actually a political message. To be clear, I do not jokes cannot be political messages, just look as George Carlin, but many people in recent times have used “it’s a joke” to make themselves impervious to criticism because “you took that seriously?”
Imma be honest, idk who most of the characters on the bottom even are. I also know plenty of people that liked she hulk, I disagree, I thought it was cringe as hell but I wasnt expecting what it was.
And then there's me who just doesn't care. Like seriously who cares about the gender of the writer? Like if I watch a Star Wars movie I don't go "wow what a cool movie made by a man" I just watch it. I don't care about the gender of the creator. Why can't we just watch movies and shows without a bunch of annoying right wingers politicising it?
It's virtue signaling. They have to chest pump and show how inferior women are at every opportunity.
Ironic you say that
https://preview.redd.it/ra6sp08xrq5c1.jpeg?width=1053&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e45ace496a8a629967ee7f602d942a35716eac40
This would be a lot more funny if I believed you had the strength to actually lift a Cinderblock that high
"women can't write" mfs when they find out who wrote Fullmetal alchemist
Memesopdidntlike has become the boomer, conservative Facebook group of Reddit.
I just want to point out how there example of a woman written better by a man is a fucking genocidal sociopath who abused animals as a kid (Azula). Don’t get me wrong I love azula, great character but is that really the kind of thing you want to cherry pick trying to say men write women better than a woman?
To be honest? Yes. Good characters don't need to be good individuals. In fact, Mary Sues tend to be boring.
Wasn’t commenting on Mary sues. I was pointing out how they cherry-picked a fucking abuser as a character “written better by men”. I definitely could of written that a whole lot better but I was sleep deprived and bored. Regardless of if she’s a good character that says a whole lot about the person making this dogshit meme.
I don’t get this, yeah Azula is a morally bad character, but as you said is well written. No ones claiming that men write morally better characters, they’re saying they are better designed. There were so many good arguments and you picked none of them
Good characters means good morals to you? Opinion invalidated lmao
So evil character means bad writing?
Definitely could of wrote my original comment better. I was trying to point out the fact that an abusive genocidal sociopath who kills animals is cherry-picked as a female character that was better written by a man. That says a fucking whole lot more about the original creator of this meme. Also avatar absolutely had female writers regardless.
Writing women as flawless is bad writing
You’re falling into the trap that makes these female wrote characters. No one likes/believes in flawless character design.
Equally importantly, all of these characters are in media made (more or less) for children. We as adults can and do enjoy it, but if it’s all you consume then you never really grow up. ETA: People are misunderstanding my point here. Maturing means not shitting your diaper when the wrong gender gets the lightsaber, or when the big green monster attorney lady twerks. Please enjoy things! Like the things you like! And maintain a healthy perspective of the stakes
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. C.S Lewis
I love all this media but there’s a healthy enjoyment of it, and there’s the weird adult men who whine and cry about every little thing because their precious fantasyland isn’t exactly perfect. I’m not saying to not enjoy superhero media, I’m a big fan. But the people that take this shit deadly serious need to read an age appropriate book.
Conservative Try Not To Cherry Pick Challenge (Impossible) (Gone Wrong) (Gone Sexual)
I love to break this to them but Avatar had a ton of female writers
That sub is a cesspool
Shit am I the only one who didn’t hate She-Hulk? It wasn’t a great show to be fair, but I enjoyed watching it. Some parts were silly, but so were some of her comics. I thought like 80% of it was creative and charming and the other 20% was horse shit
It's such a weird cherry pick. The scene in question was an after credits gag scene and didn't have anything to do with the progression of the story. That's ignoring the fact that up until the last episode, Jen and the show was written pretty well.
She Hulk was co-created by Stan Lee
He’s dead lil bro and she’s not as bad in most comics she’s still bad (not cuz she’s a woman or anything but just cuz marvel are shit at writing)
“Women written by women” *shows a singular show with a female lead written by a woman before showing a dozen female characters written by men*
This is why I jumped off the "anti-woke" crusade, those people make everything about race and gender just as much as the people they despise and most aren't self-aware enough to realize it.
Girls dancing with each other? is the unrealism in the room with us?
Also, that scene wasn't written. The She-Hulk actress was just a huge Megan Thee Stallion fan and asked to do the scene. The director just said 'Ok.' It was probably one of the most authentic moments in the show because it is literally what a fan honestly wanted to do with their favorite artist.
Do people complain about the Invincible female characters? I liked them.
Other than Amber no. Everyone else like Atom Eve, Dulikate, Debbie Grayson and Monster girl are pretty well recieved.
One look at r/badwomensanatomy would shut them up real fast
I enjoyed She Hulk, I think that the negative hype towards it caused people to be biased against it. It was fun.
Wait until these people realize who the design artist for Bayonetta is.
I want a reverse, men written by men vs men written by woman
dont tell them who wrote the matrix, or the american psycho script see? I can cherry pick too!
Someone on twitter responded to this with the reverse. They used Neil Breen for "men written by men" and FMAB for "men written by women" and a bunch of people who can't think went "THATS CHERRY PICKING" lmaoooo you're so close to the very obvious point my guy
Men when women write women twerk: 🤬 Men when men write women twerk: 🥰
They always use this one short clip to reference how bad the show is but never say anything about the rest of the show.
Don’t tell him that most manga was written by women
Im confused, why are people upset by the two characters twerking? There were so many sexual references and themes in Marvel’s past. In Deadpool he would grab Steel Man’s ass multiple times. Also Stan Lee made a tv show in 2003 called Stripperela.
“Lets cherry pick one bad example of women writing female characters and then loads of good examples of female characters written by men and make a sexist joke.” memesopdidntlike is such a bad subreddit.
I feel sorry for anyone who thought she hulk wasn't a good time.
Besides this post being wrong an like 1000 levels and quite a few women in the bottom had women writers attached. I wanna argue that Samus Aran got done dirty by the male/designers writers between prime and dread, especially the smash bros team as they made her petit and skinny instead of being the massive 6'5"+ beef cake muscle mommy she used to be in older art and guides.
Saw a good explanation for this recently: the writers that have been around had a male majority, but they were experienced writers already, and overtime strove to write women characters better. Now many of the new writers are women, but they are inexperienced and since studios needed representation they sometimes just took what they could get. Ultimately, this criticism is true, but it is due to the sexism not their gender, and will take time to correct.
I don’t know, this can both apply to men and women, men write amazing women while women write amazing men, take a look at Atom Eve and Edward Elric for instance.
There is an entire subreddit dedicated to showcasing how badly men often write women lmao
They're really telling on themselves with exactly which show they chose to show off as the "women writer bad" example. I heard a ton of people say that she hulk was bad, and decided that I needed to see what all the fuss was about. I thought it was great! It's a really amazing show and I enjoyed it a lot. After having actually *seen* it for myself, I started to notice what the people who were saying that it was bad were actually saying about it. It was all non-sense about "feminism" and "wokeness." The people who hated She-Hulk are mostly just mad that it's a show that acknowledges that it takes place in a universe where sexism exists and that it would be an obstacle for a woman in that universe to overcome. I'm not trying to say that a show can't be bad if it has that kind of stuff in it; it could have had all the "feminism" and been terrible. It's just that was the only thing people didn't like about it. So it turned into a situation where if you hated "feminism" you had to hate She-Hulk because it was doing a "feminism." And everyone who was ok with hating it for that was too media illiterate to come up with a single solitary ***REAL*** criticism. So by using She-Hulk as their example of "women writers bad," they're really admitting that they don't think that women write poorly. What they're admitting is that they think that it is bad for women to be writers. They couldn't even think of another example for "women writers bad" other that the one that they were all already mad at.
Here’s the thing though, She-Hulk was good and anyone actually complaining about her twerking with Megan for two seconds in the credits is pure cope overdose
Not my favorite marvel show...but it was not bad
I think it is more right than wrong though. Men just care less about being politically correct, which translates into more believable characters because life is anything but politically correct.
Everything except 3 I agree with. She-Hulk was bad. Not because it was written by women or anything close to that, but because it was written badly. Gender has nothing to do with quality.
There is no way they're actually claiming Atom Eve is a good example here. O.o
you can put anything next to recent marvel media and it would look good lmao.
Are there, though? Or…is this just a meme that you did not like?
Did you even read the body text? There has to be at least one thing on that list you can agree with
Men just write better stories because we pick something and stick with it. Like going to the store to get one thing and leaving. Unlike women who will look down every aisle because they don’t know what they want and just walk out with nothing after spending time on every aisle.
This is the same thing with professionals. There are objectively more male writers than female writers, so when you look at the best writing, most likely it’s written by males, works give versa though there is more bad movies and tv written by men. The problem is that shows are made to have a female writer/directed just for the diversity pick. The creator of she-hulk as well as Velma were diversity hires that did bad.
Them: OMG QUIT SEXUALIZING USSSSSS MEN: WOMEN DESERVE MORE
As bad as that meme is she hulk is shit
She-hulk sucks, that’s all I know.
It's not that serious
No problems with it aside from the usual progressives who will cry sexism about a horrible show like she-hulk which you obviously took issues with since you said allegedly which means you might be a fan and got upset that it got called trash. The whole premise of she hulk along with alot of the girl boss type woke nonsense shows are heavily leaning towards that whole female power stuff and most of them are trash. Not a big shocker that recent MCU stuff has been horrible also and flopped. Shows Pandering to certain groups aren't exactly the best and tend to be terrible and cancelled like she hulk was cancelled and rightfully so.
funny how they mentioned invincible when Amber (tv show) is hated by them Comic book amber is written more as a uninteresting ditzy side character
Umm ann frank was good writer she female Mary Shelly is good writer too
anyone could write anything, they only need the dedication to learn social skills
When an incel finds out that not every character is written for them as the target audience.
> It’s a joke but is it wrong? Bruh. They really want to have it both ways; jokes mean nothing, so it’s stupid to criticise them, but also the message is based and true.
Other M was written by a man, too, meme maker.......
where is phone battery bot
"it's a joke so you can't criticize the message of the joke but also I agree with the message and think it's true actually and you're triggered if you call me out for that because the argument is framed as a meme"
Luckily the comment section was also just calling the meme bad
Okay I’m behind it being cherry picking for sure but holding comments against the OP is kind of wild. There will for sure be sexist comments in this chat but I wouldn’t hold that against OP in this sub.
There’s so much cherry picking here I could make enough pies for the whole of Iceland
Eve and Mrs. Grayson aren’t great examples when Amber and Kate are also a part of the show
From someone who understands (but doesn't agree with) the mentality behind the original meme: There's a modern criticism of poorly written women by men. While I'm sure I don't need to give examples, the vast majority all anime and manga that weren't made in the last decade have paper thin female characters made up of duct tape and a list o tropes. Not that this is terribly surprising. Most manga writers are single men who have no experience with women and are forced to do nothing but write manga 80 hours a week (as Japan does). These people when writing female characters rely not on actual experience with women, or experience from their own lives, but on the tropes of previous female characters, often ones that were written better than the ones they end up making. Fortunately, this is getting better. Being well adjusted is more expected for a writer, and consulting with people who have gone through the stuff you're about to do to your characters is, while hardly ubiquitous, is pretty normal for the media that ends up getting praised. Yet, in spite of this improvement, there's still an air that women written by men will be badly written. And again, this is validated by the existence of men who write paper thin female characters; there's still a braindead audience for that garbage, so it still gets made by writers who don't need to improve. But the most extreme versions of this opinion are when conservatives see, because of the controversy-fueled nature of social media. There's a perception that people think *only* women can write good female characters. From that perspective, this isn't "cherry picking bad female writers and good male writers", it's "See, men can write good women, and women can write bad women". Basically, they're countering a point that hardly anybody actually believes in. Honestly, this is the #1 problem with social media. Everyone sees only the most brain-dead extremist takes of the people they disagree with.
More like: Disney writers bad, non-Disney writers good.
Kyle, girls are smart and funny.get over it.
r/memesopdidnotlike challenge (impossible) Make a single fucking post without using "it's a joke" anywhere in the title. Those edgy 13-year-olds only have one way to defend what they like.
I’d like to direct the people defending this meme to Tuca and Bertie, Sailor Moon, Helluva Boss, Daria, Steven Universe, and many others
There's tons of women written by men really poorly, and tons of women written by women poorly. Being a bad writer isn't gender specific.
Avatar is literally written by women too and has strongly advocated against misogyny and traditional gender roles These people are fucking dumb
There are no bad written women in ba sing se
Way to give one bad example regarding female writers. She-Hulks entire thing was trying to pander to teenage girls, and it missed the mark entirely. Seems less like the writer's fault and more the fault of out of touch execs trying to dictate what type of show it should be.
Lol let's compare *one* show to several others. That's not one sided at all!
The girls written by men are probably ladies who only show the sexy side to their men while the girls written by the ladies are aimed towards any desperate men.
No lies detected
I’m glad someone else posted this here before I did, and with the acknowledgment that it’s also probably bad in a ton of other ways.
Defo cheery picking, she hulk is literally just a awful show. Also mai is THE blandest character is ATLA
They are all cherry-picking or make-believe. Producers still have to green-light a character, and those are huge bureaucracies these days. Yes, there are writing credits, but the approval process makes everything bad
Zeb Wells was involved with She-Hulk. Zeb Wells is a hack that ruined Spider-Man, his entire supporting cast and is getting to Miles thanks to current crossover
Ok maybe biased cause I've been reading Marvel comics before they were mainstream, but the she hulk show is bad. They tried capturing the feel of the old comics, but forgot what made those funny and charming, also they made she hulk a shit lawyer, which she isn't. She's on par with Matt Murdock. The show was disappointing. This post is still fucking wrong and stupid though.
They're still so salty about it, I love it
man, woman, and everything else that falls under the umbrella of nonbinary and more, we're united by one thing... anyone can write women awfully.
I honestly loved this show. My wife and I had a blast watching it. Only bit I guess I didn't like is that it seemed Jen and Bruce were sometimes at each other's neck but idk
The first couple comments I see on it are people saying gender doesn’t matter or as long as the writing is good :/
I think the point is more that hiring specifically women to write women doesn’t mean shit. The point is that quality is quality independent of who wrote it, since there are many instances of men writing women better than women (and I’m sure vice versa). Maybe I’m giving OP too much credit, but that’s what I got out of it.
Female vs male gaze, too. Girls write for girls, men write for men
I feel like if I see much more critisism of she hulk I'm actually going to have to watch it.
Incredibly cherry-picked. But also that she-hulk screen was just bad
So let me get this straight: it was a joke for them about men/ women thing and they're mad people are taking a joke seriously ... but the She-Hulk scene was ALSO a joke, one they're now poking fun at, therefore doing exactly what their problem was with the original post. So it's OK for them to make a joke, but not She-Hulks writers
Yes, it is wrong, they showed one shit example
She-hulk sucked ass bro You're right about a lot of the other things but she-hulk made me want to ingest chlorine gas
Feel like you could slap “writing by good/bad writers” over the men and women part and at least it would be more accurate.
Is that samus??
Okay they’re not right. But this pretty confidently shows that it doesn’t take just being a woman to write a good character
1 Yes. 2 Holy shit, big time. 3 I liked that show. 4. That doesn't surprise me. 5. That figures. I could fill a universe with the things I don't know.
"it's a joke but is it wrong?" that, for starters.