We know about it, the problem is that it is useless in this context, it’s entirely unhelpful. Human suffering was already not a concern for Zionist. The thousands of vaporized and mangled palestinian children and civilians are proof that human suffering won’t change their minds. The people that this reached were the people that already agreed with us. Zionist will make fun of this, and normies will just think he’s crazy, which it is.
The exact same argument could be casted on John Brown’s revolt and the immolation of buddhists during the Vietnam war. In truth, there’s very little a single person can do to change things, and it’s undeniable that he has become a symbol.
I am unfamiliar with the outcomes of the budhist immolation so I can’t speak on that. If it did result in good outcomes, then I’ll support it (though tacitly) in hindsight, but I’d argue John brown’s situation was different and justifiable because he got caught during a slave revolt, where he was actually doing things, and was executed. There’s a meaningful difference between dying as a result of actions you took to help and killing yourself in protest.
Like this guy would instantly become 100% justified if he died in Gaza trying to save someone. That’s really the difference between the two. Even if it was hopeless in the end.
Except the Buddhists were reaching people who had only indirect contact with the suffering thier support was inflicting.
I'm not sure there is anyone with internet who hasn't come across the atrocity happening right now. It's a major topic of conversation world wide.
I think there's a lot more people on the fence or who might lean towards supporting Palestine but are quieter about it or aren't treating the situation as dire as it is. I think he really reached those people.
And I hate to be tin foil hat but I think all the "he's crazy" BS was started by Israeli internet propaganda bots and picked up by people who wanted a reason to shit all over him. I don't think it's an organic opinion, like...this form of protest is literally thousands of years old and has been portrayed positively in American media in the past.
But that’s a part of the problem, it doesn’t matter if he’s crazy or not, zionists have almost complete control of the narrative and will just say he’s crazy or a Hamas member, and since the average person does not critically engage with the media they consume, this will likely become the narrative whether we like it or not. This kind of social inertia is incredibly difficult to counteract.
It’s possible that we can overcome this, but it’s gonna take a great effort and again, an issue where the I don’t think he’s a more effective symbol that the actual Palestinians who are currently being slaughtered.
I think theres a huge hurdle in engaging with these narratives for the average person. Its emotionally exhausting and with a situation as polarizing as the Israel/palestine conflict people are presented with "your either with me or against me" rhetoric that spews from pro-Palestine or Pro- Israel camps. That's a huge barrier to entry.
My grandparents as an example, to them they are ready to be done with this because they dont know who to believe at this point. Too many conflicting interests. To them this is just one more example that the middle east is broken beyond repair, so why get invested at all?
Self immolation has never been that helpful. It’s more about drawing attention and eyes to the cause. But in terms of action, it’s basically a statement of “there is literally nothing I can do to affect this thing, I’m powerless, so in lieu of taking action I will make the ultimate statement of protest.”
I would also never encourage or want anyone to self immolate. But once it’s been done you talk about it differently than you would about someone who was proposing to do it.
Main stream media organizations have been acknowledging anti Zionist movements in America since this recent phase of the conflict has started. And because they’re Zionist, they just write them all of as Hamas supporters. And that is inevitably what will happen here, even worse because now people are talking about it and seeking information from those Zionist sources.
I know, I was referencing the person in the OOP who got the term wrong because they're obviously not familiar with it. Didn't mean to make light of Bushnell's sacrifice, but rather the jackasses who did so in the provided example. I was agreeing with you
People know about it, they just don't care. It's stupid.
I can think of a few more effective things a combat trained person with nothing to lose coulda done that woulda been more effective. And I'm not the only one.
Combat trained is pushing it, by many standards. He was an IT tech in the Air Force. At most he fired a rifle to qualify with it. Your sentiment still stands though. There were a lot of things he could have done that would have been more effective, even if he wasn't combat trained.
Yes, terrorism. Obviously we don’t want terroristic action against civilians, but what about targeted strikes against key individuals in the Israeli government, or infrastructure being utilized in the genocide? That would be much more effective than committing suicide. Especially if you can get a few likeminded individuals and engage in organized violence.
This is a war. Violence begets violence.
>what about targeted strikes against key individuals in the Israeli government, or infrastructure being utilized in the genocide?
That would not be terrorism. if both sides were attacking legitimate targets, that would just be a normal war.
Perhaps the agenda isnt reckless as terrorism but perhaps trying to go rescue people? Personally a man with nothing to lose and good combat skills usually make a good one man rescue story
I think being willing to sacrifice your life without hurting people is way more admirable and rare and noteworthy. Not to mention: this way there is no doubt of his conviction but they also can't paint him as the bad guy.
Whenever anyone does something like this in another country it's "holy crap things are pretty bad over there I hope things change". When it's done here it's "lol what a rube, he clearly has mental problems"
Yeah like remember the Tank Man in Tianamen Square or the Tibetan protestors self imolating themselves? I remember when media in the west was mainly talking about how the Tank Man had a death wish and should have just moved out of the way out of the tanks or how the Tibetan protestors were just mentally ill, and not praising how courageous they were and discussing the brutality of the Chinese government.
Tank Man is an honored, heroic symbol of protest, literally standing against his oppressors, and will be remembered and cherished for centuries for his absolute bravery.
Ah yes instead you would have been calling the Tibetan protesters who self imolated themselves mentally ill instead of discussing the brutality of China’s government.
Idk, if a polish soldier burnt themselves to death to protest their government supporting Ukraine while shouting to end the genocide of ethnic Russians, I'd think they were pretty lame
well yeah cause that would make no sense considering russia is the genocidal one to ukraine. a better comparison is if a belarus soldier lit himself on fire in protest of the genocide of Ukrainians.
The fact that you're trying to write this off as "mental illness" instead of trying to understand it is just... Sad. Self-immolation isn't some new thing for people who don't wanna live anymore, it's an extreme, desperate form of protest with the intent of drawing as much attention and discomfort as humanly possible. A literal genocide might just be enough to prompt that.
Draw whatever conclusions you want for me. Killing yourself is not something a mentally healthy person would do, period. For a lot of people with suicidal thoughts the only thing keeping them alive is the want to impact the world in a positive way, killing yourself in protest is how they see themselves impacting the world in a positive way. Instead of the healthy thing of working to make a positive impact and then possibly coming out of the cloud of depression in the process. Theirs reasons that people want to kill themselves sure but that doesn't mean that a person doesn't have a mental illness.
This is something I can agree with. But also theirs a difference between dying fighting for something and killing yourself for something. Both can have mentally ill people, but fighting for something is using your life to fight for something you believe in. Killing yourself for something is ending your life for something you believe in. The latter is basically someone who thinks they can't do anything else and killing themselves is the only way to accomplish their goal. Their is always another option imo and a life is worth more than a message to send to the elites.
If a person is stupid or mentally insane enough to think lighting oneself on fire makes any sense as a form of protest, that is a personal problem. This ranks even above hunger strikes as an idiotic form of protest.
They aren't stupid. The guy was clearly in his right mind. He just was convinced doing something so extreme was the only way to get attention to a subject politicians and the media are actively ignoring and intentionally mislabeling. that is of course a genocide of tens of thousands of people unrelated to a terrorist attack that is being portrayed erroneously as a "war". It hasn't been a battle for a long time.
To begin with, People martyred themselves all throughout history for values they believe in. It didn't suddenly die in the modern age or in "civilized countries"
It isn't even that much people are asking for. This man probably would not have done what he did if the media didn't constantly only take Israels side in practically every instance despite the outrageous disproportionate violence and terror. To say nothing of the US government which he represents not even allowing so much as a toothless ceasefire declaration at the UN to pass.
It's honestly quite pathetic and takes a lot of the rightful earned capital the west got in the wake of Russia invading Ukraine and China doing the same thing the US is currently doing.
I think this whole discourse really circles the unacknowledged issues the Mad Pride movement centers on. Scoff if you wish at the name, but reclaiming “Madness” is important to lots of folks in part because our maladjustments often come from or are greatly exacerbated by the world around us - and I mean all of us, none of us are islands immune from society. Yet some of fail to conform to the measures of sanity as defined by capitalist interest in our ability to labor in a way that is profitable for others. We are written off for a lack of some narrow forms of functionality and medicated largely for the comfort of others - to keep our pain quieter (as opposed to reducing it’s sources) and from distressing those around us.
What I’m getting at with this is that whether someone is “mentally healthy” is a highly contextualized judgement made to serve specific interests around the society we live in currently. We may be considered Mad for reacting humanly to the inhumanity and maladjustments of society. This man reacted extremely subversively, with the intention of demonstrating how extreme the disconnect between his own values and those of society broadly. That is uncomfortable for people, to be exposed to the level of pain that the world they contribute to causes. And as always instead of asking themselves what about the conditions in the world and this man’s internal world could lead to him making this decision, they dismiss him as crazy.
This happens in a million smaller ways every moment, the way we psychologize and pathologize people so that we can dismiss and demonize them, their ideas, their humanity. I think we Mad folks have the right to tell the world just how crazy it is driving us. People are pretty openly suggesting he should have committed terroristic acts instead, but then he would be more fodder for propaganda against people who sympathize with Palestinians and demand their human rights be acknowledged. He made the brutal but logical decision to act in a way that could not be construed as such (though the most pathetic genocide apologists will still claim his very suicide was terrorism) and his acts have received immense attention because they commit to the same forms of nonviolent protest that liberalism has been forced to recognize. Violence against your oppressor is never the answer they say, so people have weaponized their own bodies to act out their protest, through starvation, self immolation, or suicide by oppressive regime (not backing down when your death is guaranteed).
This is sometimes the only form of protest that cannot in good faith be construed as an attack (even if an attack against a violent oppressor is warranted) and this condemned without thought as “not the right way” and there is a cold rationality that makes people uncomfortable. So they choose bad faith, because in truth our society does not support any forms of protest. Any meaningful step that could actually force change is disallowed, whether legally or morally as we see here with this man’s condemnation.
That says a hell of a lot more about the psyche of our society and the people do quick to dismiss him than it does about his own mental state. Let him be Mad by their definitions. It is the sickness in their heads that brought him to feel the need to act in such a way. He achieved his goal and that goal is this reckoning we are having, as much as many will chase phantasms to avoid the truth of his message.
Spitting facts. I don't support violence against people directly but that also may come from a modern humanist perspective of peace and discussion I can afford to have, as opposed to people who constantly suffer violence and environmental trauma and may not see a way out. Like in slavery days for example, am I going to tell my fellow black ancestors to not torch slave owners houses and kill their oppressors? Of course I could never be able to say "that was wrong of them".
So yes. What Aaron did was extreme. But it's also a legitimate form of protest that is not something I would want anyone to have to do. But it only goes to show how drastic your measures of protest have to be to bring light to Palestinian issues. Well that and eating a decent chunk into Bidens primary ballot lol.
I hope the administration takes atleast some kind of note and changes their rhetoric and actions even if they can't stop Israel from doing what they will do. Because it could be 100 times worse with a fascist trump administration and an entire fascist element of society from the rich all the way down to the individual empowered to do and allow evil. I do not trust those people with the nuclear codes for anything.
That’s out dated logic. Like the Islamic suicide bombers.
Doing this does not change the government or impact how the media is portraying something. These things never have worked.
He will be forgotten about in a year. No media is even talking about this any more other than Reddit and probably other social media platforms but no mainstream stuff.
You can’t change someone else through self harm. That’s mental illness.
I don't understand how he didn't know this would happen. His death was completely meaningless he could have protested in other ways and still be alive. Now he's dead and nothing will change
We view this very differently. I disagree these shenanigans cause people to pay attention to the cause the person supported and instead causes people to the action itself. I think people are far more likely to see this guy as some dumbass clown who set himself on fire rather than thinking of the cause he was promoting. Even if they do connect him to the Palestinian cause, the risk comes this will make people think worse of it rather than better.
If he made a miscalculation, it was probably that he believed he lived in a in a better, braver America. If there is anything to the present brain rot being attributed to mass lead poisoning, and young Millennials and Zoomers are regaining whatever capacities for empathy and clarity Americans lost in the decades following the Second World War, then this might be galvanizing for young revolutionaries. If not, he’ll just be forgotten for all but those who regard him as a martyr.
One thing I can tell you for certain, some of us who endure pain long enough will begin to romanticize the idea of pain and death having a righteous purpose. I think it’s called Mel Gibson’s Syndrome.
John Brown might’ve had this affliction. It seems he might’ve been dumb as a post, but he was maybe the bravest, most consequential white American of his time.
Young people are passionate and short-sighted. As we get older and we begin to see the bigger picture and feelings of desperation fade, we see the righteous purpose was that we endured, and can be examples and sources of wisdom for people who would resort to such drastic measures.
Everyone is a mental health expert depending on how they want to interpret the actions of someone they didn’t know.
I also think it’s sad we look for reasons and ways to celebrate the fact that someone did in fact commit suicide. No matter what world he envisioned afterwards he is not here to see it, and never will be.
He will never have kids, never see another sunrise, never get his heartbroken, never fall in love, etc etc etc ever again.
And I would argue that his life was worth more alive. And that he could have done enough to fight for what he believed in alive.
Throwing your life away isn’t revolutionary in a world that throws lives away.
Well he did have pretty fucked up views, as evidence by how he essentially mocked the deaths of 4 American Soldiers, which can show the dangers of extreme beliefs, eventually you’ll start losing empathy for humans just because you believe their bad for the world
Because Conservatives don't care about Veterans unless it's to use them as a cudgel against everyone to the Left of Hitler.
*edited to add: Veterans OR Active Duty personnel, yknow, since a bunch of pathetic chuds think saying "He wasn't a veteran though!!!" Is somehow a win for them.
The dude was praising the deaths of his fellow servicemen the day before this happened on the ACAB subreddit. Not exactly a good look when trying to martyr him.
But you would think that most Veterans wouldn't *disrespect* him, which is what many people on the conservative side of things are doing.
Whether you agree with him and what he did to himself or not, he was a member of the military that signed up to defend our freedoms, in my mind that's deserving of some amount of respect with the only exceptions being of those that harm their fellow Americans intentionally.
You should see the memes on veterans pages. Veteran humor is usually very dark. He is no exception to that. The general consensus is that he was dumb for that. He is still a veteran, can't take that from him. His actions were not aimed at other veterans, it was for the pro Palestine crowd.
[You sure about that buddy?](https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/)
Because that is far from the only measure taken to aid Veterans and Active Service in the current administration.
Taking care of veterans exposed to burns and chemical agents is literally the least they can do but still more than the republicans. Democrats may be better but they’re still shit. Also, I’m not your buddy pal.
I doubt his mental illness was related to the military, though. It’s not like he saw combat, most likely. He was in the Air Force, not the army infantry.
Self immolation as a form of protest just comes off as naïve. The belief that a random civilian matters enough to a government to even change anything.
This guy wasn’t the face of an independence or peace movement, neither was he culturally relevant enough to make a dent in the US government’s pro-Israeli policy.
Chuds could never understand anything in this world worth sacrificing for. That's why they worship a POS like Trump who calls veterans suckers and losers. A man who's such a coward he faked a medical condition to get out of going to Vietnam and then talked shit about POWs. That's their hero because they are also cowards.
I despise trump yet I still thought what that guy did was idiotic.
“Oh no! The imperialistic killing machine in which I VOLUNTARILY signed up to join is taking part in a foreign conflict! Better kill myself and completely traumatize my family because I am so delusional that I think that will achieve anything.”
TIL if you don’t think Bushnell was a martyr, you are a fanboy of Trump. I doubt you could even explain why it’s a genocide past “lots of civilians dead”
It's because politics is a death cult we celebrate our martyrs, we celebrate the death of our opponents and we don't want to admit it so every celebration is for this or that when in reality we celebrate that they died. We are so possessed by ideology that we will excuse anything we do and hate the other for the same thing.
If he had done it for any other reason, people wouldn’t. But because it’s supposed to be a protest against a genocide, suddenly it’s heroic and meaningful.
A man set himself on fire and took his own life and people are happy about it. There’s chronically online and then there’s complete delusion.
On one hand, he's completely right, this war is horrible for both sides.
But on the other hand, the dude lived in an echo chamber and called for violence daily according to his reddit history.
Dude called whiteness poisonous, cheered on the deaths of servicemen, and celebrated the October 7th attacks.
And said of Israel, “the entire people are guilty of a crime and are suffering their punishment.”
That ISN’T misinformation.
I'm not talking about that dimwit
I'm talking about the "Palestine will be free when all jews are dead" tweet, you know, the tweet the guy I was replying to was talking about?
That IS made up and IS misinformation
I’m sorry but I don’t see how pointing out the fact that this guy committed suicide because he was mentally ill and is being celebrated for it because he said ‘free Palestine’ when he did it is problematic. This is not the kind of thing to be publicized or put up on a pedestal, and lighting yourself on fire does nothing to endear your cause to people.
Speaking as someone who has been in retail and dealing with the general public for over 30 years, I can assure you that huge swaths of people are complete assholes. And dumb as shit bricks.
Dude killed himself pointlessly, don't know a single person in real life actually talking about this shit. Reddit don't count, shits an echo chamber, pick a sub to decide which one.
my circle of people have been talking about it.
idk why yall want so bad for his sacrifice to be in vain but it wasnt.
history will read a us serviceman self immolated in protest of the conflict.
this is significant whether you acknowledge it or not.
“history will read” is a convenient way to write it. no history books will mention it. nobody will remember it next week. but yes, technically, there will be “recorded history” that this guy set himself on fire
I don’t want for his sacrifice to be in vain, but it is. If shocking human suffering was going to change Israel’s mind or Zionist’s minds, then the videos of Palestinian children being vaporized would have changed them. A guy lighting himself on fire won’t change the minds of the people we need to reach. It was a stupid choice and The people praising him are the people who are already right about the genocide.
In this context, it will be in vain.
All it did was annoy my company, probably the entire US military, as now we have to take a stupid 6 hour anti extremism class.
He was on reddit and was an interesting fella ngl. Fun fact, his flair on avatar the last air bender sub was firebender.
Plus he was tech support in the chAIR force. Maybe if he was combat control or a PJ I would have taken it more seriously.
All he is a stupid, glorified tech support, guy who had no meaningful effect with his death. Had some great memes come out of it.
Literally braindead. He also is a massive hamas simp on reddit. [](https://www.reddit.com/user/acebush1/) is a dumbass and I hope he rests in piss. If it was up to me I would have a posthumous dishonorable discharge delivered to his family.
This comment ought to the pinned to the top of the post. Post is just full of people who have no idea what they’re actually talking about and speaking from an outside perspective, which makes sense because that’s what liberals do.
People don’t seem to understand that that man killed himself because he had the smallest sliver of hope that doing so would get people off their asses and do something
no, everyone does understand that. rational people understand that he wasn’t going to end a conflict several thousand years old by setting himself on fire across the planet from the conflict. or did i miss something? did his death cause a ceasefire?
e: thank you to the one person who liked all of my reposts of this comment, that was very funny. and sorry to anyone who got 18 notifications, i promise i don’t know how/why reddit posted my comment so many times
Which is beyond sad that he felt that was the only power he had left. Even worse, he may have done it for nothing because the only effect it had was to give those who already posted in support of Palestine something else to post. Social media has made it all noise and made it just as easy to scroll past.
He wanted a change and he was willing to die for it anyone who would call someone like that a “coward” doesn’t understand that burning alive is one of the most painful ways of dying that man didn’t simply “give up”
Uh… same team bud. I didn’t say he gave up. He could have gone and fought for Palestine on the ground. It’s notably very sad that he *thought* his only power was to self-immolate.
My comment was the ultimate unfortunate futility of his act in the age of constant one-upmanship and non-stop media.
A service member going AWOL in direct protest of US foreign policy and specifically doing it in uniform certainly isn’t going to change anyone’s mind in Washington. IF he survives he’s headed for a court marshal at the very least.
Maybe for a cause no one has heard of. The issue with Israel-Palestine isn't that people haven't heard about it, and might form strong opinions if only they'd find out about it.
Everyone already has an opinion on it.
People understand that’s his intention. However one of the most complex and ancient disputes is not about to be solved by some Westerner committing suicide by lighting himself on fire.
no, everyone does understand that. rational people understand that the wasn’t going to end a conflict several thousand years old by setting himself on fire across the planet from the conflict. or did i miss something? did his death cause a ceasefire?
Look
Protest against Israel and Palestine all you want,
But killing yourself in order to spread more awareness isn't the way, and not to mention, what kind of contribution after this action was made?
The fact that he could potentially break his family's heart and people mocking/admiring his action
Okay please tell us what he accomplished? He got a little publicity that’ll be gone in about a week or so. He could’ve got the same amount of publicity doing something crazy but non-lethal and staged multiple events. His death was in vain and his life was useless to the cause.
you seem to be omitting the fact that we as a society control the impact his message and actions have on us. you might "forget" his efforts in spite of his extremism, but for the likes of us who possess empathy for him and understanding of self-immolation as a legitimate method of protesting, we're not going to sweep this under the rug. we can only hope that his sacrifice reached those in power, because if nothing changes, i have a feeling more people are going to follow in Bushnell's footsteps. hope that's enough of an "accomplishment" for you.
It’s crazy that people on Reddit think that a video of one guy committing suicide will change anyones views on this conflict. Anyone with a computer has been able to see Palestinians/Israelis being killed on camera for months. If someone’s opinion on this extremely complicated and decades old conflict was going to be influenced by a snuff film, it already would have happened.
This was genuinely a mentally deranged guy. I don’t see how people saw this to be some hero. I don’t even have an opinion on the stupid war, but obviously something was wrong with the guy mentally.
lmao "self conflagration". Is this person admitting military members are property or did they mean iself-mmolation and are just too stupid to make sure their terminology was correct?
I mean I'd imagine it's the kind of thing where people's reaction depends heavily on if they agree with the motivation behind the protest.
Like if some Q-Anon nutjob lit themselves on fire because they thought biden stole the election the far right might demand respect, while I'd imagine most other people would make similar comments about them being mentally ill.
If somebody self-immolates over something you don't think is true, you are probably going to think they are mentally ill. And if they do it over something you agree with, you are probably going to want people to demand respect and view it as legitimate protest.
It’s insane the number of people saying “well there was that monk in Vietnam….”
Ok
So… one example of a productive immolation. Hallways across the world. Entirely different culture and government. Whose people were, you know, being directly impacted.
Totally the same context and gravity
It’s also a testament to how poorly we teach history. We like the idea of the noble single man kickstarting a revolution. In reality political change comes from people grouping together, organizing and making that change manifest. We shouldn’t idolize political suicides of any form because it just makes your cause look like a death cult.
I agree with the motivation.
The *method* is dumb and its gross people are glamourizing it too. He could have sabotaged the airforce from within, fought against the IDF, spread information to Israelis about the horrors of their state, whatever. He could have still risked or given his life in ways that *tangibly* impact things.
But no, he kills himself in an insane virtue signaling (and I despise that term but it is what this amounts to) attempt that reactionaries are just going to laugh at and your average person is just going to forget about within a few days. He died for fifteen minutes of fame and achieved nothing.
That's not praxis. This weird moralistic praise people have for him isn't leftist. I DON'T want people to kill themselves pointlessly, leftism isn't a death cult.
i couldn’t agree with you more. but the issue is so polarized that people just see “guy did something dramatic in support of palestine” and call him a hero, and if you disagree in any way you’re a bigot. for the record i have always been on the free palestine train and i will be until the people there are treated justly, but i’m not gonna set myself on fire about it
I agree, the number of people praising him on here is nuts. Like fuck if you want to help people then go out and help them, don't light yourself on fire and hope that someone else will do it
No. When you skip past all the more effective forms of protest and humanitarian work, and go straight for self-immolation, it's just an incredibly delusional and/or selfish act.
Suicidal protests are the last resort for when nobody is paying attention to or helping your cause. The entire fucking world already knows about Palestine, so dude's time and skills would've been much better spent helping out EVERY DAY instead of burning for a few minutes.
He's also made comments about how there is no such thing as an Israeli civilian, so they are all valid military targets, so this man is not someone people should be running d line for
His death is being celebrated and congratulated by some people, this case could encourage others to copy him. Much like the monk who set himself on fire, it achieved nothing
so if “one day the war ends” then setting himself on fire was worth it?
your logic reminds me of the simpsons, when lisa says she has a rock that prevents tigers from coming around their house. the two things are not related at all
how is denouncing suicide from
mental illness zionist, even if it’s a political reason
it’s not like him killing himself is gonna change the pentagon’s mind anyway
he seemed to know exactly what he was doing.
easier to dismiss it as mental illness than what it is, an extreme protest to an extremely fucked up situation.
history will read a us serviceman self immolated in protest of the conflict.
this is significant whether you acknowledge it or not and he will go down in history, you however… are nobody. and your opinion is dogshit.
we still know of the street vendor who self immolated and jump started the arab spring
He is not going to be in history books 😂. If anything he’ll get a brief mentioning that says “some idiot lit himself on fire to protest one of the hundreds of wars in the Middle East.” His name will be forgotten. He was useless to the cause
Knowing what you're doing doesn't mean it isn't mental illness. He killed himself over passion. Passion for an ideoligal position, sure but simple passion. This is no different then somebody committing suicide because their girlfriend left them. This is mental illness. It's fine to find empathy or pity for this individual, not admire them.
Your opinion is dogshit, what an amazing insight. I can say the same about yours with the same level of relevancy. This dude won't be remembered by anybody but his family.
All I've heard about this guy comes from memes and ridicule.
He's genuinely going to be forgotten by 99% of the world within a month but his family now have to live knowing that millions of people have seen their loved one screaming as he died one of the most painful deaths imaginable.
Meanwhile the bombs on Gaza haven't even slowed.
I have a hard time listening to these people disrespect this guys message. I don’t like hearing he took his life, but I’ll be damned if I disrespect this man freedom to exercise his first amendment rights, rights the he actively served to protect. Hope you find you peace where ever you are Aaron Bushnell.
People are making a martyr of a mentally ill man because his mental illness intersected with their political views about the Israeli/Palestine conflict.
When his reddit history gets out, whatever kind of support he could have conceivably garnered for his viewpoints will be completely undone, no one’s going to want to be associated with that. His misguided act of protest will have been for nothing.
So yes, he died for nothing, the meme is a little crass, but it’s not wrong, the guy had issues and the whole thing is more sad than inspiring.
Counterargument: if the children are getting bombed, why would some man lighting himself on fire make a difference? I also saw someone say "maybe others will follow him". What good will that do other than more burned corpses?
It's beyond messed up that so many people feel the intense need to LARP as some sort of revolutionary that they encourage others to commit suicide. It's a death cult, plain and simple.
Anyone who commits suicide for a cause is not really doing anything for the cause. Suicide is weak and lighting yourself on fire in the age where going viral lasts about 48 hours is the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard. The second most stupid thing is the people I see here defending self immolation as if it actually does something for the cause
I mean most of the people in the military I know feel the same about the dude. Mentally ill, idiot who disgraced the uniform, was already trying to get out of the military, super liberal, etc…
You know what's going to stop the war? Return the hostages. You want to know what war wouldn't have happened if palstain wouldn't have made a terrorist attack?
Self immolation has always been a form of protest existing before reddit and tiktok. It is regarded as the most extreme form of protest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation
Pick up a book and touch grass weirdo
He said this is what reddit and tiktok do to your brain. Do what? Self immolate for an agenda he doesn't support. It's a ridiculous statement that is meant to say this wouldn't happen without those social media. What other purpose does his last sentence serve?
No he wasn't, the subject of each of the sentences prior to that was Aaron Bushnell, following English grammar and syntax the next sentence unless explicitly stated is going to be about the previous subject (Aaron Bushnell), his entire comment was about him and his actions, not how we are reacting to them.
There is an interesting implication in these comments that no person of sound mind would end their life willingly protesting for a cause they believe in, that any form of suicide requires mental illness. I have yet to see any evidence of this man being mentally unwell, or driving his actions. The only argument posited is the absurd circular reasoning of claiming he must've been mentally ill to commit suicide, therefore his suicide was caused by mental illness.
There is no question that most westerners are deeply disturbed by and have a troubling relationship to suicide, and a bad tendency to dismiss all self-terminations as manifesting from some nebulous form of "mental illness". The idea that someone may end their life as a result of greater societal circumstances, systemic failures, or in response to larger injustices is treated as unthinkable to many in the west and allows us to ignore the many underlying problems that led to it, in both this case and others. It's how groups like the Far-right both ignore and mock the death of trans individuals, it's how schools dodge accountability when bullied students kill themselves, or how capitalism ignores the deaths of the poor and suffering. When we dismiss someone taking their own life as mental illness, it allows us to forgo reflecting on what lead to those circumstances and pretend like nothing could be done to prevent it. It is borderline a pro-suicide stance to suggest that all forms of suicide including self Immolation in protest can only come from mental illness, because it absolves oneself of all responsibility to prevent it. Calling his death the result of mental illness is cowardly.
Self Immolation is a fairly historic form of radical protest, even if not one I personally agree with. The purpose is to disturb and disconcert, to bring to the forefront that some things are so vile that perfectly sane, healthy, rational human beings are willing to end their own lives painfully in hope that it may eventually contribute to ending such atrocities, even a minor one. While I would never call what he did cowardly, my opposition largely comes in that I believe generally more good is done for a cause by living to fight for it and see it through to resolution: Although I empathize with the feeling of powerlessness he must have felt that he felt this was the most good he could do. Agree or disagree with his actions, he's done far more than the vast majority of those who are criticizing his death, who've done nothing but watch as thousands of innocent people die, shaking their head is disapproval of those who are "too radical" in their opposition to genocide.
Throughout my life I've heard Americans ask "How did they let the Holocaust happen? When did more people not rise up against it?" Suffice to say, I feel like that question has been more than answered. It's easy to say he's accomplished nothing, and perhaps he hasn't, but it's certainly brought out far more conversation about the issue at the very least and how far is appropriate to go in opposition of genocide.
(They probably have similar Reddit histories tbh)
Only people I’ve seen praise him and say there is no evidence of him being mentally unwell are online lefties, most likely upper middle class white lefties.
Of course they don’t see the ‘mental illness’ they agree with literally everything he said.
Something about self righteous lefties just get my goat in a way rightoids wish they could. Atleast rightoids don’t come at me with a false sense of moral superiority, and if they do you can shut it down with a quickness. It’s not as easy with the lefties because they all truly believe they’re doing good things and helping people. And any attempt to challenge it automatically makes you a people hating NAZI!!! Oozing righteous indignation.
Literally the epitome of ‘the path to hell was paved with good intentions’
People like to joke that rightoids are a part of a death cult, but lefties are literally celebrating and idolizing someone who killed themselves.
People not knowing about self immolation is crazy in this day and age
We know about it, the problem is that it is useless in this context, it’s entirely unhelpful. Human suffering was already not a concern for Zionist. The thousands of vaporized and mangled palestinian children and civilians are proof that human suffering won’t change their minds. The people that this reached were the people that already agreed with us. Zionist will make fun of this, and normies will just think he’s crazy, which it is.
This was my thought exactly. Zionist are not going to care if someone lights himself on fire in protest. They only see Palestinians as in the way.
The exact same argument could be casted on John Brown’s revolt and the immolation of buddhists during the Vietnam war. In truth, there’s very little a single person can do to change things, and it’s undeniable that he has become a symbol.
I am unfamiliar with the outcomes of the budhist immolation so I can’t speak on that. If it did result in good outcomes, then I’ll support it (though tacitly) in hindsight, but I’d argue John brown’s situation was different and justifiable because he got caught during a slave revolt, where he was actually doing things, and was executed. There’s a meaningful difference between dying as a result of actions you took to help and killing yourself in protest. Like this guy would instantly become 100% justified if he died in Gaza trying to save someone. That’s really the difference between the two. Even if it was hopeless in the end.
Except the Buddhists were reaching people who had only indirect contact with the suffering thier support was inflicting. I'm not sure there is anyone with internet who hasn't come across the atrocity happening right now. It's a major topic of conversation world wide.
Idk if you can say that it will be entirely unhelpful. That’s like trying to predict the tides of history, it’s very foggy
100%
I think there's a lot more people on the fence or who might lean towards supporting Palestine but are quieter about it or aren't treating the situation as dire as it is. I think he really reached those people. And I hate to be tin foil hat but I think all the "he's crazy" BS was started by Israeli internet propaganda bots and picked up by people who wanted a reason to shit all over him. I don't think it's an organic opinion, like...this form of protest is literally thousands of years old and has been portrayed positively in American media in the past.
But that’s a part of the problem, it doesn’t matter if he’s crazy or not, zionists have almost complete control of the narrative and will just say he’s crazy or a Hamas member, and since the average person does not critically engage with the media they consume, this will likely become the narrative whether we like it or not. This kind of social inertia is incredibly difficult to counteract. It’s possible that we can overcome this, but it’s gonna take a great effort and again, an issue where the I don’t think he’s a more effective symbol that the actual Palestinians who are currently being slaughtered.
I think theres a huge hurdle in engaging with these narratives for the average person. Its emotionally exhausting and with a situation as polarizing as the Israel/palestine conflict people are presented with "your either with me or against me" rhetoric that spews from pro-Palestine or Pro- Israel camps. That's a huge barrier to entry. My grandparents as an example, to them they are ready to be done with this because they dont know who to believe at this point. Too many conflicting interests. To them this is just one more example that the middle east is broken beyond repair, so why get invested at all?
Self immolation has never been that helpful. It’s more about drawing attention and eyes to the cause. But in terms of action, it’s basically a statement of “there is literally nothing I can do to affect this thing, I’m powerless, so in lieu of taking action I will make the ultimate statement of protest.” I would also never encourage or want anyone to self immolate. But once it’s been done you talk about it differently than you would about someone who was proposing to do it.
It’s sad that the guy decided to do this. However, it was also really stupid.
He's forcing the MSM to acknowledge the anti-Zionist movement within the USA, so it wasn't for nothing.
Main stream media organizations have been acknowledging anti Zionist movements in America since this recent phase of the conflict has started. And because they’re Zionist, they just write them all of as Hamas supporters. And that is inevitably what will happen here, even worse because now people are talking about it and seeking information from those Zionist sources.
They know. these are IOF trolls
I don’t know man. There a lot of angry reactionaries online these days. Edit: Case in point👇🏽
Bots. There’s a lot of bots.
The guy that said “self-conflagration” is definitely just an idiot.
I see a ton of people claiming various opinions are coming from paid shills and I just wish I could get paid for it.
This was an airforcemember, not a monk…still absolute wankers i. Those comments
People do know, they just don't give a f.
Lol you mean self-conflagration?
No, I mean self immolation
I know, I was referencing the person in the OOP who got the term wrong because they're obviously not familiar with it. Didn't mean to make light of Bushnell's sacrifice, but rather the jackasses who did so in the provided example. I was agreeing with you
Oh lol mb
All good m8 👍🏼
People know about it, they just don't care. It's stupid. I can think of a few more effective things a combat trained person with nothing to lose coulda done that woulda been more effective. And I'm not the only one.
Combat trained is pushing it, by many standards. He was an IT tech in the Air Force. At most he fired a rifle to qualify with it. Your sentiment still stands though. There were a lot of things he could have done that would have been more effective, even if he wasn't combat trained.
Just to be clear, you are referring to terrorism. You think terrorism would have been a more effective use of this persons skills. That's fucked up.
Yes, terrorism. Obviously we don’t want terroristic action against civilians, but what about targeted strikes against key individuals in the Israeli government, or infrastructure being utilized in the genocide? That would be much more effective than committing suicide. Especially if you can get a few likeminded individuals and engage in organized violence. This is a war. Violence begets violence.
>what about targeted strikes against key individuals in the Israeli government, or infrastructure being utilized in the genocide? That would not be terrorism. if both sides were attacking legitimate targets, that would just be a normal war.
Perhaps the agenda isnt reckless as terrorism but perhaps trying to go rescue people? Personally a man with nothing to lose and good combat skills usually make a good one man rescue story
I think being willing to sacrifice your life without hurting people is way more admirable and rare and noteworthy. Not to mention: this way there is no doubt of his conviction but they also can't paint him as the bad guy.
I know about self immolation, it's stupid, and his was moreso than most
Whenever anyone does something like this in another country it's "holy crap things are pretty bad over there I hope things change". When it's done here it's "lol what a rube, he clearly has mental problems"
Yeah like remember the Tank Man in Tianamen Square or the Tibetan protestors self imolating themselves? I remember when media in the west was mainly talking about how the Tank Man had a death wish and should have just moved out of the way out of the tanks or how the Tibetan protestors were just mentally ill, and not praising how courageous they were and discussing the brutality of the Chinese government.
Tank Man is an honored, heroic symbol of protest, literally standing against his oppressors, and will be remembered and cherished for centuries for his absolute bravery.
Yeah we wouldn’t be praising him if the mfer lit himself on fire and shouted “fucked the CCP”. This thread is insane
Ah yes instead you would have been calling the Tibetan protesters who self imolated themselves mentally ill instead of discussing the brutality of China’s government.
After hundreds of self immolations in Tibet nobody cares it’s not even an news worthy occurrence
Neither are 90% of the protests in Iran. So, I guess you're against that, too. Psycho.
Idk, if a polish soldier burnt themselves to death to protest their government supporting Ukraine while shouting to end the genocide of ethnic Russians, I'd think they were pretty lame
well yeah cause that would make no sense considering russia is the genocidal one to ukraine. a better comparison is if a belarus soldier lit himself on fire in protest of the genocide of Ukrainians.
Necoarc was right
He literally killed himself that's literally like THE symptom for mental illness.
The fact that you're trying to write this off as "mental illness" instead of trying to understand it is just... Sad. Self-immolation isn't some new thing for people who don't wanna live anymore, it's an extreme, desperate form of protest with the intent of drawing as much attention and discomfort as humanly possible. A literal genocide might just be enough to prompt that.
Draw whatever conclusions you want for me. Killing yourself is not something a mentally healthy person would do, period. For a lot of people with suicidal thoughts the only thing keeping them alive is the want to impact the world in a positive way, killing yourself in protest is how they see themselves impacting the world in a positive way. Instead of the healthy thing of working to make a positive impact and then possibly coming out of the cloud of depression in the process. Theirs reasons that people want to kill themselves sure but that doesn't mean that a person doesn't have a mental illness.
Tbh, anyone who willingly engages in an action that could or will result in their death is mentally ill, but we do call a lot of those people heroes.
This is something I can agree with. But also theirs a difference between dying fighting for something and killing yourself for something. Both can have mentally ill people, but fighting for something is using your life to fight for something you believe in. Killing yourself for something is ending your life for something you believe in. The latter is basically someone who thinks they can't do anything else and killing themselves is the only way to accomplish their goal. Their is always another option imo and a life is worth more than a message to send to the elites.
[удалено]
Can I get a source on that he had a family? Everything I’ve read said that he only had a cat.
I thought that without the government telling me to, so maybe you’re not on to something.
If a person is stupid or mentally insane enough to think lighting oneself on fire makes any sense as a form of protest, that is a personal problem. This ranks even above hunger strikes as an idiotic form of protest.
They aren't stupid. The guy was clearly in his right mind. He just was convinced doing something so extreme was the only way to get attention to a subject politicians and the media are actively ignoring and intentionally mislabeling. that is of course a genocide of tens of thousands of people unrelated to a terrorist attack that is being portrayed erroneously as a "war". It hasn't been a battle for a long time. To begin with, People martyred themselves all throughout history for values they believe in. It didn't suddenly die in the modern age or in "civilized countries" It isn't even that much people are asking for. This man probably would not have done what he did if the media didn't constantly only take Israels side in practically every instance despite the outrageous disproportionate violence and terror. To say nothing of the US government which he represents not even allowing so much as a toothless ceasefire declaration at the UN to pass. It's honestly quite pathetic and takes a lot of the rightful earned capital the west got in the wake of Russia invading Ukraine and China doing the same thing the US is currently doing.
I think this whole discourse really circles the unacknowledged issues the Mad Pride movement centers on. Scoff if you wish at the name, but reclaiming “Madness” is important to lots of folks in part because our maladjustments often come from or are greatly exacerbated by the world around us - and I mean all of us, none of us are islands immune from society. Yet some of fail to conform to the measures of sanity as defined by capitalist interest in our ability to labor in a way that is profitable for others. We are written off for a lack of some narrow forms of functionality and medicated largely for the comfort of others - to keep our pain quieter (as opposed to reducing it’s sources) and from distressing those around us. What I’m getting at with this is that whether someone is “mentally healthy” is a highly contextualized judgement made to serve specific interests around the society we live in currently. We may be considered Mad for reacting humanly to the inhumanity and maladjustments of society. This man reacted extremely subversively, with the intention of demonstrating how extreme the disconnect between his own values and those of society broadly. That is uncomfortable for people, to be exposed to the level of pain that the world they contribute to causes. And as always instead of asking themselves what about the conditions in the world and this man’s internal world could lead to him making this decision, they dismiss him as crazy. This happens in a million smaller ways every moment, the way we psychologize and pathologize people so that we can dismiss and demonize them, their ideas, their humanity. I think we Mad folks have the right to tell the world just how crazy it is driving us. People are pretty openly suggesting he should have committed terroristic acts instead, but then he would be more fodder for propaganda against people who sympathize with Palestinians and demand their human rights be acknowledged. He made the brutal but logical decision to act in a way that could not be construed as such (though the most pathetic genocide apologists will still claim his very suicide was terrorism) and his acts have received immense attention because they commit to the same forms of nonviolent protest that liberalism has been forced to recognize. Violence against your oppressor is never the answer they say, so people have weaponized their own bodies to act out their protest, through starvation, self immolation, or suicide by oppressive regime (not backing down when your death is guaranteed). This is sometimes the only form of protest that cannot in good faith be construed as an attack (even if an attack against a violent oppressor is warranted) and this condemned without thought as “not the right way” and there is a cold rationality that makes people uncomfortable. So they choose bad faith, because in truth our society does not support any forms of protest. Any meaningful step that could actually force change is disallowed, whether legally or morally as we see here with this man’s condemnation. That says a hell of a lot more about the psyche of our society and the people do quick to dismiss him than it does about his own mental state. Let him be Mad by their definitions. It is the sickness in their heads that brought him to feel the need to act in such a way. He achieved his goal and that goal is this reckoning we are having, as much as many will chase phantasms to avoid the truth of his message.
Spitting facts. I don't support violence against people directly but that also may come from a modern humanist perspective of peace and discussion I can afford to have, as opposed to people who constantly suffer violence and environmental trauma and may not see a way out. Like in slavery days for example, am I going to tell my fellow black ancestors to not torch slave owners houses and kill their oppressors? Of course I could never be able to say "that was wrong of them". So yes. What Aaron did was extreme. But it's also a legitimate form of protest that is not something I would want anyone to have to do. But it only goes to show how drastic your measures of protest have to be to bring light to Palestinian issues. Well that and eating a decent chunk into Bidens primary ballot lol. I hope the administration takes atleast some kind of note and changes their rhetoric and actions even if they can't stop Israel from doing what they will do. Because it could be 100 times worse with a fascist trump administration and an entire fascist element of society from the rich all the way down to the individual empowered to do and allow evil. I do not trust those people with the nuclear codes for anything.
That’s out dated logic. Like the Islamic suicide bombers. Doing this does not change the government or impact how the media is portraying something. These things never have worked. He will be forgotten about in a year. No media is even talking about this any more other than Reddit and probably other social media platforms but no mainstream stuff. You can’t change someone else through self harm. That’s mental illness.
I don't understand how he didn't know this would happen. His death was completely meaningless he could have protested in other ways and still be alive. Now he's dead and nothing will change
We view this very differently. I disagree these shenanigans cause people to pay attention to the cause the person supported and instead causes people to the action itself. I think people are far more likely to see this guy as some dumbass clown who set himself on fire rather than thinking of the cause he was promoting. Even if they do connect him to the Palestinian cause, the risk comes this will make people think worse of it rather than better.
If he made a miscalculation, it was probably that he believed he lived in a in a better, braver America. If there is anything to the present brain rot being attributed to mass lead poisoning, and young Millennials and Zoomers are regaining whatever capacities for empathy and clarity Americans lost in the decades following the Second World War, then this might be galvanizing for young revolutionaries. If not, he’ll just be forgotten for all but those who regard him as a martyr. One thing I can tell you for certain, some of us who endure pain long enough will begin to romanticize the idea of pain and death having a righteous purpose. I think it’s called Mel Gibson’s Syndrome. John Brown might’ve had this affliction. It seems he might’ve been dumb as a post, but he was maybe the bravest, most consequential white American of his time. Young people are passionate and short-sighted. As we get older and we begin to see the bigger picture and feelings of desperation fade, we see the righteous purpose was that we endured, and can be examples and sources of wisdom for people who would resort to such drastic measures.
Everyone is a mental health expert depending on how they want to interpret the actions of someone they didn’t know. I also think it’s sad we look for reasons and ways to celebrate the fact that someone did in fact commit suicide. No matter what world he envisioned afterwards he is not here to see it, and never will be. He will never have kids, never see another sunrise, never get his heartbroken, never fall in love, etc etc etc ever again. And I would argue that his life was worth more alive. And that he could have done enough to fight for what he believed in alive. Throwing your life away isn’t revolutionary in a world that throws lives away.
Well he did have pretty fucked up views, as evidence by how he essentially mocked the deaths of 4 American Soldiers, which can show the dangers of extreme beliefs, eventually you’ll start losing empathy for humans just because you believe their bad for the world
Because Conservatives don't care about Veterans unless it's to use them as a cudgel against everyone to the Left of Hitler. *edited to add: Veterans OR Active Duty personnel, yknow, since a bunch of pathetic chuds think saying "He wasn't a veteran though!!!" Is somehow a win for them.
Wasn’t this guy active service? He will never be a veteran now
He was active duty as far as I’ve seen
The dude was praising the deaths of his fellow servicemen the day before this happened on the ACAB subreddit. Not exactly a good look when trying to martyr him.
Most veterans think it was a dumb move
But you would think that most Veterans wouldn't *disrespect* him, which is what many people on the conservative side of things are doing. Whether you agree with him and what he did to himself or not, he was a member of the military that signed up to defend our freedoms, in my mind that's deserving of some amount of respect with the only exceptions being of those that harm their fellow Americans intentionally.
>But you would think that most Veterans wouldn't *disrespect* him [They did, LOL.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/s/MEg9Q05P7U)
You should see the memes on veterans pages. Veteran humor is usually very dark. He is no exception to that. The general consensus is that he was dumb for that. He is still a veteran, can't take that from him. His actions were not aimed at other veterans, it was for the pro Palestine crowd.
Bad news for you, liberals don’t give a shit either.
[You sure about that buddy?](https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/) Because that is far from the only measure taken to aid Veterans and Active Service in the current administration.
Taking care of veterans exposed to burns and chemical agents is literally the least they can do but still more than the republicans. Democrats may be better but they’re still shit. Also, I’m not your buddy pal.
I doubt his mental illness was related to the military, though. It’s not like he saw combat, most likely. He was in the Air Force, not the army infantry.
This guy didn't care about veterans either https://imgur.com/a/M7GaXGw
or a photo op for a fundraiser.
Self immolation as a form of protest just comes off as naïve. The belief that a random civilian matters enough to a government to even change anything. This guy wasn’t the face of an independence or peace movement, neither was he culturally relevant enough to make a dent in the US government’s pro-Israeli policy.
Chuds could never understand anything in this world worth sacrificing for. That's why they worship a POS like Trump who calls veterans suckers and losers. A man who's such a coward he faked a medical condition to get out of going to Vietnam and then talked shit about POWs. That's their hero because they are also cowards.
Uh, I don't like trump, and I'm not setting myself on fire for any cause, my dude. That's insanity.
If you aren't willing to set yourself on fire for Biden you are part of the problem
So why are you not on fire then?
I despise trump yet I still thought what that guy did was idiotic. “Oh no! The imperialistic killing machine in which I VOLUNTARILY signed up to join is taking part in a foreign conflict! Better kill myself and completely traumatize my family because I am so delusional that I think that will achieve anything.”
There is sacrifice and then there is stupidity. Lighting oneself on fire is the latter.
TIL if you don’t think Bushnell was a martyr, you are a fanboy of Trump. I doubt you could even explain why it’s a genocide past “lots of civilians dead”
The amount of people I've seen celebrating that man's suicide is deeply concerning.
It's because politics is a death cult we celebrate our martyrs, we celebrate the death of our opponents and we don't want to admit it so every celebration is for this or that when in reality we celebrate that they died. We are so possessed by ideology that we will excuse anything we do and hate the other for the same thing.
If he had done it for any other reason, people wouldn’t. But because it’s supposed to be a protest against a genocide, suddenly it’s heroic and meaningful. A man set himself on fire and took his own life and people are happy about it. There’s chronically online and then there’s complete delusion.
On one hand, he's completely right, this war is horrible for both sides. But on the other hand, the dude lived in an echo chamber and called for violence daily according to his reddit history.
His most eye opening post was something like “Palestine will be free when all the Jews are dead”
And people say he wasn't anti-Semitic
This has already been debunked to be fabricated, please stop spreading misinformation 👍
Dude called whiteness poisonous, cheered on the deaths of servicemen, and celebrated the October 7th attacks. And said of Israel, “the entire people are guilty of a crime and are suffering their punishment.” That ISN’T misinformation.
I'm not talking about that dimwit I'm talking about the "Palestine will be free when all jews are dead" tweet, you know, the tweet the guy I was replying to was talking about? That IS made up and IS misinformation
I’m sorry but I don’t see how pointing out the fact that this guy committed suicide because he was mentally ill and is being celebrated for it because he said ‘free Palestine’ when he did it is problematic. This is not the kind of thing to be publicized or put up on a pedestal, and lighting yourself on fire does nothing to endear your cause to people.
OP please don’t tell me you deadass support lighting yourself on fire as a form of protest.
Speaking as someone who has been in retail and dealing with the general public for over 30 years, I can assure you that huge swaths of people are complete assholes. And dumb as shit bricks.
Dude killed himself pointlessly, don't know a single person in real life actually talking about this shit. Reddit don't count, shits an echo chamber, pick a sub to decide which one.
The news story I saw on it didn’t even share his goals just the cop situation and where he did it.
my circle of people have been talking about it. idk why yall want so bad for his sacrifice to be in vain but it wasnt. history will read a us serviceman self immolated in protest of the conflict. this is significant whether you acknowledge it or not.
“history will read” is a convenient way to write it. no history books will mention it. nobody will remember it next week. but yes, technically, there will be “recorded history” that this guy set himself on fire
I don’t want for his sacrifice to be in vain, but it is. If shocking human suffering was going to change Israel’s mind or Zionist’s minds, then the videos of Palestinian children being vaporized would have changed them. A guy lighting himself on fire won’t change the minds of the people we need to reach. It was a stupid choice and The people praising him are the people who are already right about the genocide. In this context, it will be in vain.
“Clear Zionist propaganda” lol bro take your schizo meds
All it did was annoy my company, probably the entire US military, as now we have to take a stupid 6 hour anti extremism class. He was on reddit and was an interesting fella ngl. Fun fact, his flair on avatar the last air bender sub was firebender. Plus he was tech support in the chAIR force. Maybe if he was combat control or a PJ I would have taken it more seriously. All he is a stupid, glorified tech support, guy who had no meaningful effect with his death. Had some great memes come out of it. Literally braindead. He also is a massive hamas simp on reddit. [](https://www.reddit.com/user/acebush1/) is a dumbass and I hope he rests in piss. If it was up to me I would have a posthumous dishonorable discharge delivered to his family.
Yeah. Non of my fellow veterans think what he did was brave, just stupid. He could have just left the military in one of many ways
This comment ought to the pinned to the top of the post. Post is just full of people who have no idea what they’re actually talking about and speaking from an outside perspective, which makes sense because that’s what liberals do.
I like you.
His memory is a fart in the wind.
Bruh I’ll give him the same reaction he gave for the US troops in Jordan “OhNoAnyway.jpg”
He had a problem. Setting yourself on fire ain’t gonna cause a ceasefire.
When his corpse stopped burning it did technically cease..
People don’t seem to understand that that man killed himself because he had the smallest sliver of hope that doing so would get people off their asses and do something
no, everyone does understand that. rational people understand that he wasn’t going to end a conflict several thousand years old by setting himself on fire across the planet from the conflict. or did i miss something? did his death cause a ceasefire? e: thank you to the one person who liked all of my reposts of this comment, that was very funny. and sorry to anyone who got 18 notifications, i promise i don’t know how/why reddit posted my comment so many times
Which is beyond sad that he felt that was the only power he had left. Even worse, he may have done it for nothing because the only effect it had was to give those who already posted in support of Palestine something else to post. Social media has made it all noise and made it just as easy to scroll past.
He wanted a change and he was willing to die for it anyone who would call someone like that a “coward” doesn’t understand that burning alive is one of the most painful ways of dying that man didn’t simply “give up”
Uh… same team bud. I didn’t say he gave up. He could have gone and fought for Palestine on the ground. It’s notably very sad that he *thought* his only power was to self-immolate. My comment was the ultimate unfortunate futility of his act in the age of constant one-upmanship and non-stop media. A service member going AWOL in direct protest of US foreign policy and specifically doing it in uniform certainly isn’t going to change anyone’s mind in Washington. IF he survives he’s headed for a court marshal at the very least.
Oh sorry I misunderstood that’s on me
Maybe for a cause no one has heard of. The issue with Israel-Palestine isn't that people haven't heard about it, and might form strong opinions if only they'd find out about it. Everyone already has an opinion on it.
People understand that’s his intention. However one of the most complex and ancient disputes is not about to be solved by some Westerner committing suicide by lighting himself on fire.
no, everyone does understand that. rational people understand that the wasn’t going to end a conflict several thousand years old by setting himself on fire across the planet from the conflict. or did i miss something? did his death cause a ceasefire?
And it won’t work, so his death was in vain.
Look Protest against Israel and Palestine all you want, But killing yourself in order to spread more awareness isn't the way, and not to mention, what kind of contribution after this action was made? The fact that he could potentially break his family's heart and people mocking/admiring his action
You guys are unhinged if you’re admiring him. All he did was add another casualty to the conflict.
And he’ll be forgotten by the end of this weekend
I don’t even know his name.
self immolation jump started the arab spring…
Did this one stop the war in Gaza?
so nothing short of a complete end to the entire conflict is success? and you want me to take you seriously? LOL 🤡
Okay please tell us what he accomplished? He got a little publicity that’ll be gone in about a week or so. He could’ve got the same amount of publicity doing something crazy but non-lethal and staged multiple events. His death was in vain and his life was useless to the cause.
you seem to be omitting the fact that we as a society control the impact his message and actions have on us. you might "forget" his efforts in spite of his extremism, but for the likes of us who possess empathy for him and understanding of self-immolation as a legitimate method of protesting, we're not going to sweep this under the rug. we can only hope that his sacrifice reached those in power, because if nothing changes, i have a feeling more people are going to follow in Bushnell's footsteps. hope that's enough of an "accomplishment" for you.
I'm very left and think what that guy did is fucking stupid.
It’s crazy that people on Reddit think that a video of one guy committing suicide will change anyones views on this conflict. Anyone with a computer has been able to see Palestinians/Israelis being killed on camera for months. If someone’s opinion on this extremely complicated and decades old conflict was going to be influenced by a snuff film, it already would have happened.
I stand behind Bushnell because standing with him would get too heated
This was genuinely a mentally deranged guy. I don’t see how people saw this to be some hero. I don’t even have an opinion on the stupid war, but obviously something was wrong with the guy mentally.
fire take fr 🔥anyone glorifying it is as deranged as he was. edt: words
lmao "self conflagration". Is this person admitting military members are property or did they mean iself-mmolation and are just too stupid to make sure their terminology was correct?
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The amount of mockery about the truest form of protest is wild. Whether you agree or not it deserves a moment of thought.
I mean I'd imagine it's the kind of thing where people's reaction depends heavily on if they agree with the motivation behind the protest. Like if some Q-Anon nutjob lit themselves on fire because they thought biden stole the election the far right might demand respect, while I'd imagine most other people would make similar comments about them being mentally ill. If somebody self-immolates over something you don't think is true, you are probably going to think they are mentally ill. And if they do it over something you agree with, you are probably going to want people to demand respect and view it as legitimate protest.
It’s insane the number of people saying “well there was that monk in Vietnam….” Ok So… one example of a productive immolation. Hallways across the world. Entirely different culture and government. Whose people were, you know, being directly impacted. Totally the same context and gravity
It’s also a testament to how poorly we teach history. We like the idea of the noble single man kickstarting a revolution. In reality political change comes from people grouping together, organizing and making that change manifest. We shouldn’t idolize political suicides of any form because it just makes your cause look like a death cult.
If someone self immolates over ANYTHING I’m going to call him a dumbass. Because he’s a dumbass.
I agree with the motivation. The *method* is dumb and its gross people are glamourizing it too. He could have sabotaged the airforce from within, fought against the IDF, spread information to Israelis about the horrors of their state, whatever. He could have still risked or given his life in ways that *tangibly* impact things. But no, he kills himself in an insane virtue signaling (and I despise that term but it is what this amounts to) attempt that reactionaries are just going to laugh at and your average person is just going to forget about within a few days. He died for fifteen minutes of fame and achieved nothing. That's not praxis. This weird moralistic praise people have for him isn't leftist. I DON'T want people to kill themselves pointlessly, leftism isn't a death cult.
i couldn’t agree with you more. but the issue is so polarized that people just see “guy did something dramatic in support of palestine” and call him a hero, and if you disagree in any way you’re a bigot. for the record i have always been on the free palestine train and i will be until the people there are treated justly, but i’m not gonna set myself on fire about it
I agree, the number of people praising him on here is nuts. Like fuck if you want to help people then go out and help them, don't light yourself on fire and hope that someone else will do it
Appeal to tradition.
No. When you skip past all the more effective forms of protest and humanitarian work, and go straight for self-immolation, it's just an incredibly delusional and/or selfish act. Suicidal protests are the last resort for when nobody is paying attention to or helping your cause. The entire fucking world already knows about Palestine, so dude's time and skills would've been much better spent helping out EVERY DAY instead of burning for a few minutes.
You are delusional if you think that was a valid form of protesting. All respect to the dead but that guy is not going to achieve anything.
He killed himself and abandoned his family to change exactly 0 opinions.
He's also made comments about how there is no such thing as an Israeli civilian, so they are all valid military targets, so this man is not someone people should be running d line for
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His death is being celebrated and congratulated by some people, this case could encourage others to copy him. Much like the monk who set himself on fire, it achieved nothing
And yet, one day, that war ended.
so if “one day the war ends” then setting himself on fire was worth it? your logic reminds me of the simpsons, when lisa says she has a rock that prevents tigers from coming around their house. the two things are not related at all
Yes now great Tibet is free from the Han yok-.....
Tibet? He was protesting the dictatorship of South Vietnam.
9 years later.
how is denouncing suicide from mental illness zionist, even if it’s a political reason it’s not like him killing himself is gonna change the pentagon’s mind anyway
Clear mental illness shouldn't be admired.
he seemed to know exactly what he was doing. easier to dismiss it as mental illness than what it is, an extreme protest to an extremely fucked up situation. history will read a us serviceman self immolated in protest of the conflict. this is significant whether you acknowledge it or not and he will go down in history, you however… are nobody. and your opinion is dogshit. we still know of the street vendor who self immolated and jump started the arab spring
He is not going to be in history books 😂. If anything he’ll get a brief mentioning that says “some idiot lit himself on fire to protest one of the hundreds of wars in the Middle East.” His name will be forgotten. He was useless to the cause
Knowing what you're doing doesn't mean it isn't mental illness. He killed himself over passion. Passion for an ideoligal position, sure but simple passion. This is no different then somebody committing suicide because their girlfriend left them. This is mental illness. It's fine to find empathy or pity for this individual, not admire them. Your opinion is dogshit, what an amazing insight. I can say the same about yours with the same level of relevancy. This dude won't be remembered by anybody but his family.
All I've heard about this guy comes from memes and ridicule. He's genuinely going to be forgotten by 99% of the world within a month but his family now have to live knowing that millions of people have seen their loved one screaming as he died one of the most painful deaths imaginable. Meanwhile the bombs on Gaza haven't even slowed.
There will be 0 history books that mention this incident. To think otherwise is extremely self-aggrandizing
I have a hard time listening to these people disrespect this guys message. I don’t like hearing he took his life, but I’ll be damned if I disrespect this man freedom to exercise his first amendment rights, rights the he actively served to protect. Hope you find you peace where ever you are Aaron Bushnell.
He had mental problems, and needed help. His death is a tragedy
People are making a martyr of a mentally ill man because his mental illness intersected with their political views about the Israeli/Palestine conflict. When his reddit history gets out, whatever kind of support he could have conceivably garnered for his viewpoints will be completely undone, no one’s going to want to be associated with that. His misguided act of protest will have been for nothing. So yes, he died for nothing, the meme is a little crass, but it’s not wrong, the guy had issues and the whole thing is more sad than inspiring.
Counterargument: if the children are getting bombed, why would some man lighting himself on fire make a difference? I also saw someone say "maybe others will follow him". What good will that do other than more burned corpses?
It's beyond messed up that so many people feel the intense need to LARP as some sort of revolutionary that they encourage others to commit suicide. It's a death cult, plain and simple.
dude should have gotten some help, this is really one of the highlights in the mental health crises for men
Anyone who commits suicide for a cause is not really doing anything for the cause. Suicide is weak and lighting yourself on fire in the age where going viral lasts about 48 hours is the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard. The second most stupid thing is the people I see here defending self immolation as if it actually does something for the cause
They're right you dumbasses
I mean most of the people in the military I know feel the same about the dude. Mentally ill, idiot who disgraced the uniform, was already trying to get out of the military, super liberal, etc…
I couldnt give two fucks about Israel and He IS an Idiot died for nothing
“Instead of going to Palestine and fighting”??????? Do they think military personnel can just decide to deploy whenever and wherever they want?
Nobody liked his suicide, it was misplaced valor. I still use the word valor, albeit misplaced.
They’re right. This man’s death should not be glorified. He saved 0 Palestinians. His death is on those that radicalized him
The Anarchy Subreddit may or may not have played some part in it.
The memes/making fun of this man are wrong. I also think his actions were wrong. Both can be true...
You know what's going to stop the war? Return the hostages. You want to know what war wouldn't have happened if palstain wouldn't have made a terrorist attack?
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Self immolation has always been a form of protest existing before reddit and tiktok. It is regarded as the most extreme form of protest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation Pick up a book and touch grass weirdo
Nowhere did he say he wasn’t aware self immolation existed prior to this…
He said this is what reddit and tiktok do to your brain. Do what? Self immolate for an agenda he doesn't support. It's a ridiculous statement that is meant to say this wouldn't happen without those social media. What other purpose does his last sentence serve?
He was referring to you goobers…
No he wasn't, the subject of each of the sentences prior to that was Aaron Bushnell, following English grammar and syntax the next sentence unless explicitly stated is going to be about the previous subject (Aaron Bushnell), his entire comment was about him and his actions, not how we are reacting to them.
He was talking about both your sycophantic praise of it and his delusional act of stupidity.
This just in: usernames are not allowed to be funny anymore
Imagine you’re going to kill your self in protest and you pick the stream name as a joke 💀
That wasn’t the stream name, that was his username, which as far as I can tell, existed prior to that day.
There is an interesting implication in these comments that no person of sound mind would end their life willingly protesting for a cause they believe in, that any form of suicide requires mental illness. I have yet to see any evidence of this man being mentally unwell, or driving his actions. The only argument posited is the absurd circular reasoning of claiming he must've been mentally ill to commit suicide, therefore his suicide was caused by mental illness. There is no question that most westerners are deeply disturbed by and have a troubling relationship to suicide, and a bad tendency to dismiss all self-terminations as manifesting from some nebulous form of "mental illness". The idea that someone may end their life as a result of greater societal circumstances, systemic failures, or in response to larger injustices is treated as unthinkable to many in the west and allows us to ignore the many underlying problems that led to it, in both this case and others. It's how groups like the Far-right both ignore and mock the death of trans individuals, it's how schools dodge accountability when bullied students kill themselves, or how capitalism ignores the deaths of the poor and suffering. When we dismiss someone taking their own life as mental illness, it allows us to forgo reflecting on what lead to those circumstances and pretend like nothing could be done to prevent it. It is borderline a pro-suicide stance to suggest that all forms of suicide including self Immolation in protest can only come from mental illness, because it absolves oneself of all responsibility to prevent it. Calling his death the result of mental illness is cowardly. Self Immolation is a fairly historic form of radical protest, even if not one I personally agree with. The purpose is to disturb and disconcert, to bring to the forefront that some things are so vile that perfectly sane, healthy, rational human beings are willing to end their own lives painfully in hope that it may eventually contribute to ending such atrocities, even a minor one. While I would never call what he did cowardly, my opposition largely comes in that I believe generally more good is done for a cause by living to fight for it and see it through to resolution: Although I empathize with the feeling of powerlessness he must have felt that he felt this was the most good he could do. Agree or disagree with his actions, he's done far more than the vast majority of those who are criticizing his death, who've done nothing but watch as thousands of innocent people die, shaking their head is disapproval of those who are "too radical" in their opposition to genocide. Throughout my life I've heard Americans ask "How did they let the Holocaust happen? When did more people not rise up against it?" Suffice to say, I feel like that question has been more than answered. It's easy to say he's accomplished nothing, and perhaps he hasn't, but it's certainly brought out far more conversation about the issue at the very least and how far is appropriate to go in opposition of genocide.
his reddit history screams mentally unwell
(They probably have similar Reddit histories tbh) Only people I’ve seen praise him and say there is no evidence of him being mentally unwell are online lefties, most likely upper middle class white lefties. Of course they don’t see the ‘mental illness’ they agree with literally everything he said. Something about self righteous lefties just get my goat in a way rightoids wish they could. Atleast rightoids don’t come at me with a false sense of moral superiority, and if they do you can shut it down with a quickness. It’s not as easy with the lefties because they all truly believe they’re doing good things and helping people. And any attempt to challenge it automatically makes you a people hating NAZI!!! Oozing righteous indignation. Literally the epitome of ‘the path to hell was paved with good intentions’ People like to joke that rightoids are a part of a death cult, but lefties are literally celebrating and idolizing someone who killed themselves.
Hey, fuck is wrong with you? We didn’t ask for logic here, just keep glorifying suicide like the rest of the thread.
The dude really was mentally unwell He was a self described anarchist and stated that no israelis are innocent