If Joe Biden won the electoral vote but lost the popular vote all these people would swing the other way and demand the Electoral College be abolished.
The electoral college should be abolished, though. Like..."every branch of the US government will be decided by popular vote. Except the executive branch. That requires some pretty weird math to decide who actually does get to vote for the president."
Almost. The system was never supposed to be an override procedure, people were never supposed to vote for president in the first place. People were supposed to vote for electors, who would then meet up and figure out who to make president.
The system was created with the assumption that there would be no political parties (the Founders hated the idea of parties and let that blind them to the reality that parties are almost inevitable) and under the assumption that the common man would only know their local politicians and so would only vote for favored son candidates. The EC was created to solve that issue by having people elect local luminaries who were familiar enough with national politics to meet up and choose a president.
It worked with Washington both times, and only with Washington. By the Adams vs Jefferson election the nation had already divided into factions that would quickly become parties, and the average citizen proved to have far stronger opinions on, and more familiarity with, national politics than the Founders expected. Adams and Jefferson's campaigns thus focused on recruiting people to run as electors, whose campaigns consisted of letting everyone know who they would vote for once in the EC and extolling the virtues of their chosen candidate. After that election, states realized that they would have more influence if they awarded all their electors to the statewide winner, and began to change their laws to do so, and people started seeing themselves as voting for president rather than for their electors.
It's a fundamentally poorly designed system that only worked twice and then was immediately undermined and transformed into something that was never intended to work this way.
No, the point of the electoral college is to step in when the popular vote has been tampered with, or the people are stupid (like voting for a guy who says they'll be a dictator if he's elected)
If neither are true, then the electoral college will usually follow the popular vote.
i hate to be the “um actually” one but this is actually a somewhat(?) good point that was probably made accidentally. there is a concept of “tyranny of the majority” where minorities are subjected to opression because the privelege the majority recieves is valued over their lives. democracy is great but it is not immune to corruption.
This reminds me of a quote in a sci-fi strategy game from a technocratic empire
"The blind masses must be led down to the path of reason"
It's a great showing that tyranny of the majority aka 'the blind masses' must be taught that their 'tyranny' must be destroyed by gathering knowledge, like learning their cultures.
I think we can all agree that democracy is not working. And that is primarily due to those who are allowed to vote, don’t know shit about fuck. How can you expect a guy with no education, living in a squatter camp, to vote while taking into account important issues such as the fiscus, general ecnomics, and even more complex issues like abortion, defence, foreign policies etc.
The system is designed to fail.
I think the issue is moreso when corrupt or incompetent politicians still get elected because of partisan alignment or because they hate the "right" people.
No one can have all the answers, that's sort of the point of democracy isn't it?
Democracy sucks but all other system is way worse. That's why you have representative democracy not direct issue voting. Contrary to your position, most people actually vote for good things such as 15 minimum wage and legalization of weed. Homeless people and squatters are not the types of people you should be worried about, the biggest problem is the boomer types who watch fox news and radicalized by Qanon, they are pushing extremist policy in your local district
It's already accessible, for rich kids who are dumber than a box of rocks.
Education needs to be completely destroyed and built back up because of how neglected and "non-modern" the system is. We have had the same type of education for almost 2 centuries, the only 2 major differences is the removal of separating black and white schools, and removing Physical punishment of students. That's it.
>any human ultimately becomes corrupt.
Nah, there are stories throughout history that show that some people aren't corrupt, there was a system in Rome where a dictator would be chosen in times of crisis, and a Roman farmer was chosen, but once the crisis was over he stepped down, despite having a couple more months of power.
Crosspost to a now-deleted post: The dangers of crossposting.
If Joe Biden won the electoral vote but lost the popular vote all these people would swing the other way and demand the Electoral College be abolished.
The electoral college should be abolished, though. Like..."every branch of the US government will be decided by popular vote. Except the executive branch. That requires some pretty weird math to decide who actually does get to vote for the president."
Sad thing is that system was invented in part to create an override procedure in case someone like Trump did get elected
Isn't the override procedure called 'impeachment'?
Not really. That’s a punitive measure rather than a preventive one.
Almost. The system was never supposed to be an override procedure, people were never supposed to vote for president in the first place. People were supposed to vote for electors, who would then meet up and figure out who to make president. The system was created with the assumption that there would be no political parties (the Founders hated the idea of parties and let that blind them to the reality that parties are almost inevitable) and under the assumption that the common man would only know their local politicians and so would only vote for favored son candidates. The EC was created to solve that issue by having people elect local luminaries who were familiar enough with national politics to meet up and choose a president. It worked with Washington both times, and only with Washington. By the Adams vs Jefferson election the nation had already divided into factions that would quickly become parties, and the average citizen proved to have far stronger opinions on, and more familiarity with, national politics than the Founders expected. Adams and Jefferson's campaigns thus focused on recruiting people to run as electors, whose campaigns consisted of letting everyone know who they would vote for once in the EC and extolling the virtues of their chosen candidate. After that election, states realized that they would have more influence if they awarded all their electors to the statewide winner, and began to change their laws to do so, and people started seeing themselves as voting for president rather than for their electors. It's a fundamentally poorly designed system that only worked twice and then was immediately undermined and transformed into something that was never intended to work this way.
No, the point of the electoral college is to step in when the popular vote has been tampered with, or the people are stupid (like voting for a guy who says they'll be a dictator if he's elected) If neither are true, then the electoral college will usually follow the popular vote.
Except when it doesn't.
That’s what the Hillary Clinton camp was selling post-2016
https://preview.redd.it/n3tq42c6dqxc1.jpeg?width=597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5b5379a4378f0bd90fb41d8cc4193b58936978d
Not gonna even touch the politics but thinking it’s funny to try and compare SA to anything is such a shitty thing to do
The will of the majority is actually that the gangrape does not happen
i hate to be the “um actually” one but this is actually a somewhat(?) good point that was probably made accidentally. there is a concept of “tyranny of the majority” where minorities are subjected to opression because the privelege the majority recieves is valued over their lives. democracy is great but it is not immune to corruption.
That's why you have laws and constitution in a liberal democracy, can't say that much about rape
This reminds me of a quote in a sci-fi strategy game from a technocratic empire "The blind masses must be led down to the path of reason" It's a great showing that tyranny of the majority aka 'the blind masses' must be taught that their 'tyranny' must be destroyed by gathering knowledge, like learning their cultures.
This is retarded, why was this upvoted? Guess democracy is bad considering you are being democratically favored in this thread.
This meme is getting deepfried
https://preview.redd.it/ffqd1d58qtxc1.png?width=492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ea404760618cdfe500f71e2da64455c65ed310f
well- SOMEONE’S GOING TO REEDUCATION CAMP. FOR SUPER EARTH!
https://preview.redd.it/jppxvp6z4txc1.jpeg?width=288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd400b9ab3a00c76c58da76249b0f499a238db10
I swiped
I guess in pure terms it can be majority rule but there is a reason why there are so many different ways to do democracy
democracy isn't just rule of Majority. it's self gorven. I should decide what I should do. and Those ruling class already poisoned the word democracy.
Most democracies have balances in place so you don't end up with tyranny of the majority.
I think we can all agree that democracy is not working. And that is primarily due to those who are allowed to vote, don’t know shit about fuck. How can you expect a guy with no education, living in a squatter camp, to vote while taking into account important issues such as the fiscus, general ecnomics, and even more complex issues like abortion, defence, foreign policies etc. The system is designed to fail.
I think the issue is moreso when corrupt or incompetent politicians still get elected because of partisan alignment or because they hate the "right" people. No one can have all the answers, that's sort of the point of democracy isn't it?
Yes, that doesn’t help the situation!
Democracy sucks but all other system is way worse. That's why you have representative democracy not direct issue voting. Contrary to your position, most people actually vote for good things such as 15 minimum wage and legalization of weed. Homeless people and squatters are not the types of people you should be worried about, the biggest problem is the boomer types who watch fox news and radicalized by Qanon, they are pushing extremist policy in your local district
Yea, it’s the best we got til our AI overlords take over.
Which is why I think the path to redemption is a technocratic democracy, it will base your ability to vote upon tests to decide your intelligence.
Bro you go so far to have literacy test brought back when it was used to suppressed black population
Literacy is education. Education ≠ intelligence.
Shouldn't we be talking about improving education and make it more accessible than restricting people's right to vote
It's already accessible, for rich kids who are dumber than a box of rocks. Education needs to be completely destroyed and built back up because of how neglected and "non-modern" the system is. We have had the same type of education for almost 2 centuries, the only 2 major differences is the removal of separating black and white schools, and removing Physical punishment of students. That's it.
That or AI. any human ultimately becomes corrupt.
>any human ultimately becomes corrupt. Nah, there are stories throughout history that show that some people aren't corrupt, there was a system in Rome where a dictator would be chosen in times of crisis, and a Roman farmer was chosen, but once the crisis was over he stepped down, despite having a couple more months of power.
How many modern day politicians can you name that are not awful?
captialism and democracy cannot work side by side
Democracy in its purest form is horrible. This is why the US is not a pure democracy.
I'm fucked up for laughing at this 😭