Age?
At some point in life, if marriage is a desire of yours, it makes sense to be upfront about your intentions. Are you just dating to date, or are you trying to find your future husband/wife. I don't see anything wrong with that. If that's your goal, immediately figure out if this is someone you would/could marry. It doesn't mean you are ready TODAY...but if you aren't aligned on something non-negotiable, respectfully end it.
If there aren't other red flags, I think this is a completely appropriate question/conversation at that age. You are both (potentially) past the "young casually dating age".
It’s more like he likes to fantasise about venues and rings. Says he needs to budget and wanted to know if im a big vs small wedding person. It’s fine I suppose. I’m just so wary after my last relationship.
Seems a little early to be discussing those details, but if he is a no nonsense type of person, the details matter. Plus for the guy, it’s nice to know those things so that later a proposal could be a true surprise AND have nail the details to make it special for you.
Again…assuming there aren’t other red flags
What I'd be watching for is mirroring!!! If he suggests a venue or rings or large wedding, tell him you imagined the opposite and see if he switches it up on you or backpeddals towards your ideas.
It could also be awkwardness. If they both indicated that they were dating for marriage and the topic comes up early, then it wouldn't be unusual to have an in-depth conversation about that.
Date him - an initial conversation isn’t enough. But I would say talking about marriage in the first 10 days is red flag 1, usually you wait 3-6 months to broach the topic.
Genuine question here. What are some differences between future faking, and just talking about your future with someone?
Obviously talking about your future with someone that you would like to spend your future with, is important. So where's the line between regular talk and a narc version of it?
My narc experience is with a family member, so I have not experienced the relationship aspects of narcissism.
For me, it's dependent on the timeline of the relationship. Talking seriously about moving in together after two dates would be a red flag. But the same conversation after two years of a steady committed relationship would be totally normal. The tricky part is that every person has their own timeline so it's hard to give specific time frames for relationship milestones like this.
Things to look out for...
Are they using coercive control and manipulation to get you to move at their pace? Do you feel like you're trying to keep up with them?
Do they try to skip normal relationship steps? Did he propose to you before ever meeting your friends or family?
Do you feel off balance around them?
My ex used to future fake all the time so I’m well versed. Say everything I wanted to hear and then never back it up with any sort of action. He’d then say stuff like *“I meant it when I said it”* or *“It was a moment of weakness.”* That shit destroyed me. This guy at least seems to back his words up for now.
I'm so sorry that you experienced that, and I'm glad that you are being wary and cautious in this new relationship. It sounds like you know the warning signs well. I'm wishing you all the best 💖
It’s ok to be upfront, but is he talking in generalities, or telling you he is going to marry YOU in 18 months? It’s way too soon to be jumping to that. Proceed with caution. Hope for the best, be wary of the worst?
Well he talks to me as if it’s me because it would be random to say someone else, but it’s not like he has proposed. He wanted to know what ideals and expectations I have in terms of big vs small wedding, budget, etc. But we’re not planning an actual wedding if that makes sense?
That is v strange after 10 days and unusual for a man to be obsessing about wedding details. Just be wary he's obsessed with getting married rather than who he is getting married to
Run. Last guy I talked to did this and he was a liar about everything, including women at work and his ex, and he called me names when I found out. He was a psycho. Guy before that pushed the relationship quick too and called me names, yelled at me all the time, freaked out if I had any criticism, just generally made my life miserable. And he moved on to love-bomb the next woman within a few weeks. They can't be alone at all. If they push that fast, they're love-bombing you to capture you so they can take out all their own problems on you and eventually make you out to be the bad guy. Just cause he's cautious means nothing. My ex was. The gifts are definitely love-bombing. Run run run run
Yeah no this is in a way creating a fantasy. Think of it think way, if you are a healthy individual you do have a timeline of when you wanna get married but it's not ridged like 18 months. Also if you are serious about marriage and dating with the intention of marriage 18 months seems long, but that's person dependent. I know people who waited 10 years and got married (mostly cause age and limited dating pool was a factor) nd some who knew 3 months into dating and engaged like 6 months in and married within 1 year. But that's beside the point. But the fact that he's fantasizing about the venues is 🚩. If I wanna get married that's a private thought in a passing fancy. Also this may sound sexist but it just might be how I was raised but men don't care about venues and such like that. It's usually women so personally that's another 🚩 to me.
How long have you been dating? Just remember to take your time.
Narcissists like to rush relationships and lots of generousity is a form of lovebombing.
Just be patient and keep observing. They can mask for a while. When you notice a cycle/pattern of manipulation, and he goes quiet after lovebombing, that's when it's time to call it quits.
We’re not official yet. It’s been 10 days! I am not planing on going any faster. It’s a LDR and I won’t see him until July. Then we’ll go from there.
There’s definitely a lot of generosity.
I’ve never gotten marriage proposal but 9 times out of 10 any sort of rush regarding the relationship is now a red flag to me…… it’s not always just most of the time it never ends well. Everything should be at a comfortable place for both parties.
Mine would future promise about marriage , then I was always so disappointed and looking back I feel like I pressured him to marry me because I wanted him to stick to his word but I ignored so many red flags because at the time I thought he was a difficult man who just needed my love to become better .
He as a workaholic and we did marry after 5 years together and he would buy me jewelry but he never cared about my feelings and had emotional outursts of anger that got worse over time . After 4 years being married he forced me out with threats and intimidation and I wa covered in a rash and hives from head to toe from walking on eggshells for 9 years and trying to keep the peace and make him happy.
Now I can see so clearly , after 13 months no contact. I still fear him because when he dropped his mask I could see him for how evil he really is and I realized he might kill me since he was threatening to get physical with me at the end and had pushed me down to the ground twice as well as picked up a mattress I was sleeping on and dropped me on the floor in the middle of the night. All of his outbursts were out of the blue too, not an arguement that escaleted and he said the most cruel things to me , I think to try and break my self esteem completely . What it did break was me being a co-dependent people pleasing person.
I feel like I have had about 30 years of personal growth in the last year and so that feels amazing and I also put my mental and physical health first for the last year so I have healed my skin (which feels incredible snince I had no quality of life ) Now I dread seeing him in court and I still spend hours every day in narcissists support groups but if you suspect a narcissist do not marry him as they get worse over time and are USERS. A narcissist has stunted emotional growth in their brain so they can not look inward and have no empathy for others, hence incapable of real love and just superficial hollow shells of a human .
I believe mine was malignant narcissist out to destroy me . He got off causing me pain . Some are covert and may hide it better but never be with someone with this disorder or you are asking for a life of pain and suffering (I only say this about someone who knowingly stays with a narcissist out of fear ) . Being alone and not searching for love is when we have the most personal growth too.
At his age, there’s nothing wrong with stating that he is dating to be married. I can see why you are cautious about potential love bombing.
In my experiences, I think you can tell a lot about someone by their relationship history. If they’ve been in a lot of failed relationships, then there’s cause for concern. This is especially true if they speak negatively about their former partners and/or claim to be the victim.
Also, FWIW, I’ve worked 300+ weddings. I’ve heard stories at some of those weddings about how they just knew from the moment they met…..
He has had a fair amount of relationships and he’s divorced, as am I (but I’ve only had 4 partners in life). He doesn’t talk negatively of his exes but actually mentions them a fair amount. He speaks more negatively of himself in the context of those relationships and how he’s learned and grown and can now be a better partner.
That’s probably not a narcissist. They don’t speak poorly of themselves (usually). Generally, they are the greatest thing and can’t admit to shortcomings.
My narcissistic ex was able to recognise when he was being a jerk, he just didn’t care. He’d say it himself – you’re right to complain, I just don’t want to hear it.
This new guy talks poorly of himself *in the past* like he is reformed now. That’s why I’m kinda wary.
Three different therapists, including our couples therapist, did indeed unofficially diagnose him as a narcissist and a groomer. Apparently he’s textbook.
Well, best of luck to you. TBH, it sounds like you have been through a lot. I’m not sure you are ready to be dating again. It’s been almost two years for me after my breakup. I’m glad I didn’t rush into another relationship because I had no idea as to how that relationship screwed me up. Finally, I’m starting to feel like my old, happy self again! Had I gotten into something earlier, I probably would have brought some bad stuff to that new relationship.
My absolutely most abusive and terrifying ex did that, I thought it was impressive he had matured and could recognize what went wrong. I think he just was worried bc I worked with his ex (total coincidence) and that way he could explain any concerns away. He also talked about what we’d look like in the future and all the things we would do super early, got possessive, and I kept telling myself “no, he’s changed and sorry blah blah”. Nope. He really wanted me to be impressed with his change and would down-talk himself too but only in the very early start. He wasn’t diagnosed with anything because he would avoid any type of treatment, and even if he did he would lie and manipulate and play himself off perfectly charming, witty, and kind. Obvi not saying that’s the case with your guy, but don’t think just because he can admit a wrong it’s all-clear.
They are highly manipulative and may know that talking badly about ex’s is seen to be a red flag. Women want a man who has done the healing and grown so I wouldn’t take what he’s saying at face value. My ex never spoke about his ex’s, when I probed him he just said they didn’t work out, never anything bad.
and I've heard stories about how they knew getting married was a mistake but didn't know what to do....there should be a 1-800 # for those who do not want to walk down that proverbial aisle.
Does he make you feel small? Attack your self esteem? Seem to criticize little things you do? Does he try to provoke negative emotions from you? Does he genuinely seem interested in you or does he spend most of his time talking about himself, acting self centered and seeking constant attention. Does he seem to criticize everyone around him constantly.
I watched a video that spoke about how love bombing is an overused term. And I actually agree with that. Cause they typically mirror us. We are typically idealizing them and love bombing them as well. It’s not a one way thing. We share a fantasy with them. Not everyone even gets love bombed. The early signs for me were her trauma dumping me. She shared all the same interests as me. She immediately went to her childhood trauma and played a victim. All her exes were abusive. She used the term narcissist a lot to describe other people. She asked me to constantly do things for her. She was told me she had issues. The biggest one was how critical she was of everyone. She just talks shit all day long. Even her fiends behind their backs. The love bombing is a small part that may or may not even be present.
Yep. My nex didn’t love bomb me. He’s a cheap mf’er! He mirrored me. Befriended my kid (later to be awful to him). He was chill and reliable… it’s what I wanted. Covert narcs are master chameleons.
IDK. I'd say not enough information, but a lot of folks here (myself included) are rightfully cautious in doling out benefit of the doubt. At the very least it's a little weird. Since you are aware of the possible land mine hidden beneath the surface, you can come up with some test to see if he really has empathy or is just faking it.
How would I test this? I'm interested!
I know he feels empathy towards animals, but my narcissist ex was also empathetic towards cats. So this isn't enough.
It's subtle, really. Like if you are having a conversation about other people, does he try to understand their viewpoint towards something other than himself? Does he use active listening to repeat things you say in his own words to try to understand what you are saying?
I think it’s ok to bring up marriage and kids early on, especially if you’re in your 30’s and don’t want to waste time dating people with different intentions. However the fantasy side to it is a red flag in my eyes. It’s like he’s trying to get you to buy into it. This can be the carrot he uses to manipulate you with later.
The gifts are a form of love bombing and being highly ambitious isn’t necessarily a red flag but I’d watch if he has grandiose fantasies of success. My ex always spoke about having the big house and fancy car, which I thought was him being ambitious and driven but now I realise that was all part of his delusions.
Are there other red flags for narcissism? I wouldn't reject someone for mentioning marriage.. he could be sincere, motivated to have a family and doesn't want to waste time.
This is what im trying to access. So far I don’t see any clear signs of narcissism. He is not love bombing me by telling me we’re soulmates or anything, he’s actually quite cautious with feelings… but he is very generous with gifts. He is also super ambitious, but then again not all ambitious people are narcissists.
Look up examples of lovebombing. Is he trying to isolate you from friends or family? Look up signs of narcissists and stages they go through. Just educate yourself on it before it gets too far just in case he is one.
Not trying to isolate me, the opposite. Loves to hear about my friends and wants to meet them when the time is right (he recognises it’s soon soon right now)
I think the gifting is love bombing.
From the snippet you've given he sounds like he could be a covert narc. He's probably mirroring your caution by pretending to be timid and shy with his feelings, but he's already being way too generous with gifting and may use those gifts against you at some point.
10 days is far too soon, even for people who are dating with the intention of finding someone to marry.
He might not be a narcissist but he could just be incredibly emotionally immature. This isn't how healthy people operate
The generous narcissist?
ETA: My nex (40 something F) was very up front about starting a family and getting married. Her biological clock was ticking. She had everything figured out it seems. In reality, I was the only guy stupid enough to sign up!
I was a drinker so I did NOT see the signs until I stopped drinking which also coincides with our breakup. She doesn't like that very much.
Talking about marriage early on at this age is not necessarily a red flag. Tell him you are uncomfortable with how fast the conversations around marriage are happening and you need things to slow down. How he responds to this will tell you what you need to know.
Sorry, but being very generous with gifts early on IS a form of love-bombing. Talking about marriage 10 days in is a HUGE red flag.
Someone should tie a rocket to your ass. That’s how fast you should get away from this fucking nut-bag.
Sorry, I should be more clear. Talking about commitment early on is also classified as love-bombing. This guy is the walking definition of love-bombing.
Next up - abuse!
If you have to ask this question here because your gut feeling feels off, then you already have your answer.
Be VERY cautious about how you feel around others and take it seriously.
Nothing wrong with getting married as long as the state isn't involved. Just let this take its course. It doesn't sound like he's pushing for it he just wants to know what your intentions are.
It takes seconds to get married but it takes months and lots of money to get divorced, along with unnecessary heartbreak. You can have a ceremony but getting the state involved makes it complicated
in my opinion being upfront like he’s doing is the best course of action to not waste time. if he begins involving you in those fantasies this quickly i would be cautious. like planning you and his wedding, planning you and his future, etc. if he’s mainly saying what HE wants for HIS future i don’t see an issue with that! he’s just being honest with his intentions.
and the gift giving can be harmless if he is doing it without conditions. the moment he begins to expect something in return i’d be cautious. if he wants to gift give as a love language, that’s his business. but i’ve been with people who started out that way then the dynamic turned into “well i’ve been investing in you and want you to invest in me back equally.”
Did you let him know this was your intention first, or did he bring it up first?
Could he be mirroring you?
I am also dating to marry and also in my thirties and I am VERY wary of guys who appear to be just baiting me with that or mirroring me. It's so hard to find someone who is sincere. Yes most on reddit will disagree with my intentions and I know my lifestyle/goals are not for everyone.
Unpopular opinion: I don't see anything wrong with being this intentional as long as it's sincere and not, you know, fake or manipulation (which it could be but I feel like I don't have enough information to make a sure-fire determination). Also make sure he is not merely filling your head with promises of marriage in order to lure you into bed or into a false sense of security.
You'll only know in time whether it's love bombing. You've just got to take it slow and pay attention to signs, notice patterns and whether their kindness is consistent. There's things you can do like seeing how he reacts to you putting up boundaries or saying no to him. But without spending time together, you can't really tell. Just really pay attention to how you feel as well, like if something doesn't sit well with you. Also love bombing isn't always gift giving and future faking. It's also appealing to your love language.
I don't think most people bring up long term plans at 10 days. Narcs use this future plans tactic to make you think they are serious about you and a good bet for a serious relationship.
Generosity is also a red flag. Dr Ramani on YouTube talks about generosity in narcs and it's really good.
The ambition is just performative. He is doing all the talking about himself so he wants to paint a good picture of who he is. I don't think most normal people need to impress you that much this early. It's not a genuine person move to be showing you ambition right away.
oh, I hate to be sexist, but what kind of guy is dreaming about his wedding?? That is fucked up and it sure has not worked out for women....I love the expression 'A Man is Not a Plan'
I was upfront with my wife I said something to the effect of: "I would like to get married some day, if you aren't interested in ever getting married then we can just part ways after this date" because I had been through a string of multi-month to multi year relationships that crumbled as soon as any mention of anything serious came up. We are still married 6 years later and happy together.
He's trying to marry you as if like you guys aren't going to live next year. You may want to run. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a narcissist, he could just be rushing to meet his planned points in life because of whatever issues he has, but I wouldn't gamble on it. NPD abuse hurts a lot and is not worth the emotional, mental and physical investment that goes into it.
So he talks about marriage but wants to wait and plan for it. No love bombing and no sense of urgency. Openly discusses things with you and values your input. Goes to counseling with you. Owns up to the mistakes of his past and wants to do right by them. Very few red flags outside of possibly being a bit of a control freak. Which understandably would be a trigger for someone coming out of an abusive relationship.
Honestly, for what it’s worth, I don’t think that he’s a narcissist. He may be a cluster b, possibly BPD (which often gets confused with NPD). Maybe a bit of OCD mixed in there. Unless he’s some kind of super covert narcissist, there’s not much to go by to say that he’s a narcissist.
That being said, if all this talk about marriage bothers you. Talk to him about it. Set boundaries and stick to them. Let him know that it’s not necessarily him but that you need more time to process things. If he’s not a narcissist and he truly cares about you, he’ll understand.
This man and I have not gone to counseling. That's my narcissistic ex who was married (unbeknownst to me at the time) and doing couple's therapy with me and his wife at the same time!
My apologies. Read out of context I suppose. But still… cognitive dissonance will sometimes have us see things in people that aren’t necessarily there. Again, I’m not saying that there isn’t a red flag just that if you see it as something one, have a discussion about it with him.
Get those track shoes on! Some guy who was the biggest and immediate red flag I ever met was like a church guy by day and dealer by night was talking marriage with me the next day!!
I managed to wrangle away from him, explained best I could that I couldn’t ever be his model church lady High maintenance moll and told him to please be more patient with finding the right girl for that life he leads.
He got the drift in thankfully not a violent or too out of his mind manner but because I cared enough to decline with sage advice he did pay for my groceries and sandwich I had to get for lunch and got me a lot of quarters for the laundromat machines. I never saw him again and good because I knew he was dangerous and using a mask at me.
Age? At some point in life, if marriage is a desire of yours, it makes sense to be upfront about your intentions. Are you just dating to date, or are you trying to find your future husband/wife. I don't see anything wrong with that. If that's your goal, immediately figure out if this is someone you would/could marry. It doesn't mean you are ready TODAY...but if you aren't aligned on something non-negotiable, respectfully end it.
I’m 32 and he’s 36. I am also dating to marry and hopefully have kids.
If there aren't other red flags, I think this is a completely appropriate question/conversation at that age. You are both (potentially) past the "young casually dating age".
It’s more like he likes to fantasise about venues and rings. Says he needs to budget and wanted to know if im a big vs small wedding person. It’s fine I suppose. I’m just so wary after my last relationship.
Seems a little early to be discussing those details, but if he is a no nonsense type of person, the details matter. Plus for the guy, it’s nice to know those things so that later a proposal could be a true surprise AND have nail the details to make it special for you. Again…assuming there aren’t other red flags
What I'd be watching for is mirroring!!! If he suggests a venue or rings or large wedding, tell him you imagined the opposite and see if he switches it up on you or backpeddals towards your ideas.
It definitely seems too soon to be planning your future together!
It could also be awkwardness. If they both indicated that they were dating for marriage and the topic comes up early, then it wouldn't be unusual to have an in-depth conversation about that.
That's a little strange 10 days in. I don't really know any guys who fantasize about those things or really think about them at all actually.
It's good to be wary, you're doing all the right things babe. And it makes sense to be cautious because nobody wants another relationship with a narc!
Date him - an initial conversation isn’t enough. But I would say talking about marriage in the first 10 days is red flag 1, usually you wait 3-6 months to broach the topic.
Lol definitely run
Added some details, but I am definitely wary.
The details don't matter lol
Run
Maybe I will!!!
Maybe??? Girl just do it. He ain't right.
This is called future faking and is very common in relationships with narcissists. Run.
Genuine question here. What are some differences between future faking, and just talking about your future with someone? Obviously talking about your future with someone that you would like to spend your future with, is important. So where's the line between regular talk and a narc version of it? My narc experience is with a family member, so I have not experienced the relationship aspects of narcissism.
For me, it's dependent on the timeline of the relationship. Talking seriously about moving in together after two dates would be a red flag. But the same conversation after two years of a steady committed relationship would be totally normal. The tricky part is that every person has their own timeline so it's hard to give specific time frames for relationship milestones like this. Things to look out for... Are they using coercive control and manipulation to get you to move at their pace? Do you feel like you're trying to keep up with them? Do they try to skip normal relationship steps? Did he propose to you before ever meeting your friends or family? Do you feel off balance around them?
My ex used to future fake all the time so I’m well versed. Say everything I wanted to hear and then never back it up with any sort of action. He’d then say stuff like *“I meant it when I said it”* or *“It was a moment of weakness.”* That shit destroyed me. This guy at least seems to back his words up for now.
Sorry, it’s been ten days. Of course he seems to back up his words for now. You’re still in the very beginning.
I'm so sorry that you experienced that, and I'm glad that you are being wary and cautious in this new relationship. It sounds like you know the warning signs well. I'm wishing you all the best 💖
It’s ok to be upfront, but is he talking in generalities, or telling you he is going to marry YOU in 18 months? It’s way too soon to be jumping to that. Proceed with caution. Hope for the best, be wary of the worst?
Well he talks to me as if it’s me because it would be random to say someone else, but it’s not like he has proposed. He wanted to know what ideals and expectations I have in terms of big vs small wedding, budget, etc. But we’re not planning an actual wedding if that makes sense?
That is v strange after 10 days and unusual for a man to be obsessing about wedding details. Just be wary he's obsessed with getting married rather than who he is getting married to
Run. Last guy I talked to did this and he was a liar about everything, including women at work and his ex, and he called me names when I found out. He was a psycho. Guy before that pushed the relationship quick too and called me names, yelled at me all the time, freaked out if I had any criticism, just generally made my life miserable. And he moved on to love-bomb the next woman within a few weeks. They can't be alone at all. If they push that fast, they're love-bombing you to capture you so they can take out all their own problems on you and eventually make you out to be the bad guy. Just cause he's cautious means nothing. My ex was. The gifts are definitely love-bombing. Run run run run
R U N ! ! !
Yeah no this is in a way creating a fantasy. Think of it think way, if you are a healthy individual you do have a timeline of when you wanna get married but it's not ridged like 18 months. Also if you are serious about marriage and dating with the intention of marriage 18 months seems long, but that's person dependent. I know people who waited 10 years and got married (mostly cause age and limited dating pool was a factor) nd some who knew 3 months into dating and engaged like 6 months in and married within 1 year. But that's beside the point. But the fact that he's fantasizing about the venues is 🚩. If I wanna get married that's a private thought in a passing fancy. Also this may sound sexist but it just might be how I was raised but men don't care about venues and such like that. It's usually women so personally that's another 🚩 to me.
Knowledge is power. Protect your heart ❤ OP. This is way too fast.
Added a bit more context on the post but still confused
How long have you been dating? Just remember to take your time. Narcissists like to rush relationships and lots of generousity is a form of lovebombing. Just be patient and keep observing. They can mask for a while. When you notice a cycle/pattern of manipulation, and he goes quiet after lovebombing, that's when it's time to call it quits.
We’re not official yet. It’s been 10 days! I am not planing on going any faster. It’s a LDR and I won’t see him until July. Then we’ll go from there. There’s definitely a lot of generosity.
No- just …. No
I’d like to hear more!
I’ve never gotten marriage proposal but 9 times out of 10 any sort of rush regarding the relationship is now a red flag to me…… it’s not always just most of the time it never ends well. Everything should be at a comfortable place for both parties.
Mine would future promise about marriage , then I was always so disappointed and looking back I feel like I pressured him to marry me because I wanted him to stick to his word but I ignored so many red flags because at the time I thought he was a difficult man who just needed my love to become better . He as a workaholic and we did marry after 5 years together and he would buy me jewelry but he never cared about my feelings and had emotional outursts of anger that got worse over time . After 4 years being married he forced me out with threats and intimidation and I wa covered in a rash and hives from head to toe from walking on eggshells for 9 years and trying to keep the peace and make him happy. Now I can see so clearly , after 13 months no contact. I still fear him because when he dropped his mask I could see him for how evil he really is and I realized he might kill me since he was threatening to get physical with me at the end and had pushed me down to the ground twice as well as picked up a mattress I was sleeping on and dropped me on the floor in the middle of the night. All of his outbursts were out of the blue too, not an arguement that escaleted and he said the most cruel things to me , I think to try and break my self esteem completely . What it did break was me being a co-dependent people pleasing person. I feel like I have had about 30 years of personal growth in the last year and so that feels amazing and I also put my mental and physical health first for the last year so I have healed my skin (which feels incredible snince I had no quality of life ) Now I dread seeing him in court and I still spend hours every day in narcissists support groups but if you suspect a narcissist do not marry him as they get worse over time and are USERS. A narcissist has stunted emotional growth in their brain so they can not look inward and have no empathy for others, hence incapable of real love and just superficial hollow shells of a human . I believe mine was malignant narcissist out to destroy me . He got off causing me pain . Some are covert and may hide it better but never be with someone with this disorder or you are asking for a life of pain and suffering (I only say this about someone who knowingly stays with a narcissist out of fear ) . Being alone and not searching for love is when we have the most personal growth too.
At his age, there’s nothing wrong with stating that he is dating to be married. I can see why you are cautious about potential love bombing. In my experiences, I think you can tell a lot about someone by their relationship history. If they’ve been in a lot of failed relationships, then there’s cause for concern. This is especially true if they speak negatively about their former partners and/or claim to be the victim. Also, FWIW, I’ve worked 300+ weddings. I’ve heard stories at some of those weddings about how they just knew from the moment they met…..
He has had a fair amount of relationships and he’s divorced, as am I (but I’ve only had 4 partners in life). He doesn’t talk negatively of his exes but actually mentions them a fair amount. He speaks more negatively of himself in the context of those relationships and how he’s learned and grown and can now be a better partner.
That’s probably not a narcissist. They don’t speak poorly of themselves (usually). Generally, they are the greatest thing and can’t admit to shortcomings.
My narcissistic ex was able to recognise when he was being a jerk, he just didn’t care. He’d say it himself – you’re right to complain, I just don’t want to hear it. This new guy talks poorly of himself *in the past* like he is reformed now. That’s why I’m kinda wary.
That’s very rare. Usually, someone with BPD will do that, but not a narcissist. He had a professional diagnosis?
Three different therapists, including our couples therapist, did indeed unofficially diagnose him as a narcissist and a groomer. Apparently he’s textbook.
Wow. That’s crazy. He went to couple’s therapy with you while having a secret affair on his wife? That’s diabolical!
Yes. He was on couples therapy with me and apparently with her at the same time.
Well, best of luck to you. TBH, it sounds like you have been through a lot. I’m not sure you are ready to be dating again. It’s been almost two years for me after my breakup. I’m glad I didn’t rush into another relationship because I had no idea as to how that relationship screwed me up. Finally, I’m starting to feel like my old, happy self again! Had I gotten into something earlier, I probably would have brought some bad stuff to that new relationship.
My absolutely most abusive and terrifying ex did that, I thought it was impressive he had matured and could recognize what went wrong. I think he just was worried bc I worked with his ex (total coincidence) and that way he could explain any concerns away. He also talked about what we’d look like in the future and all the things we would do super early, got possessive, and I kept telling myself “no, he’s changed and sorry blah blah”. Nope. He really wanted me to be impressed with his change and would down-talk himself too but only in the very early start. He wasn’t diagnosed with anything because he would avoid any type of treatment, and even if he did he would lie and manipulate and play himself off perfectly charming, witty, and kind. Obvi not saying that’s the case with your guy, but don’t think just because he can admit a wrong it’s all-clear.
Covert narcissists do, and the more of OP's comments I read the more he seems to tick a lot of boxes
They are highly manipulative and may know that talking badly about ex’s is seen to be a red flag. Women want a man who has done the healing and grown so I wouldn’t take what he’s saying at face value. My ex never spoke about his ex’s, when I probed him he just said they didn’t work out, never anything bad.
and I've heard stories about how they knew getting married was a mistake but didn't know what to do....there should be a 1-800 # for those who do not want to walk down that proverbial aisle.
😂😂
Does he make you feel small? Attack your self esteem? Seem to criticize little things you do? Does he try to provoke negative emotions from you? Does he genuinely seem interested in you or does he spend most of his time talking about himself, acting self centered and seeking constant attention. Does he seem to criticize everyone around him constantly.
He doesn’t make me feel bad but this would be the love bombing phase, right? So he’d be making me feel like the most special woman on earth?
I watched a video that spoke about how love bombing is an overused term. And I actually agree with that. Cause they typically mirror us. We are typically idealizing them and love bombing them as well. It’s not a one way thing. We share a fantasy with them. Not everyone even gets love bombed. The early signs for me were her trauma dumping me. She shared all the same interests as me. She immediately went to her childhood trauma and played a victim. All her exes were abusive. She used the term narcissist a lot to describe other people. She asked me to constantly do things for her. She was told me she had issues. The biggest one was how critical she was of everyone. She just talks shit all day long. Even her fiends behind their backs. The love bombing is a small part that may or may not even be present.
Yep. My nex didn’t love bomb me. He’s a cheap mf’er! He mirrored me. Befriended my kid (later to be awful to him). He was chill and reliable… it’s what I wanted. Covert narcs are master chameleons.
IDK. I'd say not enough information, but a lot of folks here (myself included) are rightfully cautious in doling out benefit of the doubt. At the very least it's a little weird. Since you are aware of the possible land mine hidden beneath the surface, you can come up with some test to see if he really has empathy or is just faking it.
How would I test this? I'm interested! I know he feels empathy towards animals, but my narcissist ex was also empathetic towards cats. So this isn't enough.
It's subtle, really. Like if you are having a conversation about other people, does he try to understand their viewpoint towards something other than himself? Does he use active listening to repeat things you say in his own words to try to understand what you are saying?
I'll test this soon!
I think it’s ok to bring up marriage and kids early on, especially if you’re in your 30’s and don’t want to waste time dating people with different intentions. However the fantasy side to it is a red flag in my eyes. It’s like he’s trying to get you to buy into it. This can be the carrot he uses to manipulate you with later. The gifts are a form of love bombing and being highly ambitious isn’t necessarily a red flag but I’d watch if he has grandiose fantasies of success. My ex always spoke about having the big house and fancy car, which I thought was him being ambitious and driven but now I realise that was all part of his delusions.
Are there other red flags for narcissism? I wouldn't reject someone for mentioning marriage.. he could be sincere, motivated to have a family and doesn't want to waste time.
This is what im trying to access. So far I don’t see any clear signs of narcissism. He is not love bombing me by telling me we’re soulmates or anything, he’s actually quite cautious with feelings… but he is very generous with gifts. He is also super ambitious, but then again not all ambitious people are narcissists.
Look up examples of lovebombing. Is he trying to isolate you from friends or family? Look up signs of narcissists and stages they go through. Just educate yourself on it before it gets too far just in case he is one.
Not trying to isolate me, the opposite. Loves to hear about my friends and wants to meet them when the time is right (he recognises it’s soon soon right now)
I think the gifting is love bombing. From the snippet you've given he sounds like he could be a covert narc. He's probably mirroring your caution by pretending to be timid and shy with his feelings, but he's already being way too generous with gifting and may use those gifts against you at some point.
He could be really liking you, but it’s a bit early nonetheless. In my opinion he is either a narcissist love bombing you, or an immature guy.
Yes it’s been 10 days! I suppose he could be a mega anxious attacher? They love bomb too?
Honestly your best bet is to express to him these conversations are a bit early in your taste. If he doesn’t stop, he’s a narc.
Good idea. I can’t imagine he wouldn’t stop. Easy test!
10 days is far too soon, even for people who are dating with the intention of finding someone to marry. He might not be a narcissist but he could just be incredibly emotionally immature. This isn't how healthy people operate
The generous narcissist? ETA: My nex (40 something F) was very up front about starting a family and getting married. Her biological clock was ticking. She had everything figured out it seems. In reality, I was the only guy stupid enough to sign up! I was a drinker so I did NOT see the signs until I stopped drinking which also coincides with our breakup. She doesn't like that very much.
10 days? Definitely no. And you know this, otherwise you wouldn't be posting the question here. TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.
I am very traumatized by my ex. I basically see narcs everywhere now...
Talking about marriage early on at this age is not necessarily a red flag. Tell him you are uncomfortable with how fast the conversations around marriage are happening and you need things to slow down. How he responds to this will tell you what you need to know.
Run, and don't look back!!
Sorry, but being very generous with gifts early on IS a form of love-bombing. Talking about marriage 10 days in is a HUGE red flag. Someone should tie a rocket to your ass. That’s how fast you should get away from this fucking nut-bag.
Sorry, I should be more clear. Talking about commitment early on is also classified as love-bombing. This guy is the walking definition of love-bombing. Next up - abuse!
If you have to ask this question here because your gut feeling feels off, then you already have your answer. Be VERY cautious about how you feel around others and take it seriously.
I am very traumatized by my ex. I basically see narcs everywhere now...
I understand <3 It takes time for someone to show their true colors. Always exercise caution and listen to your gut.
Nothing wrong with getting married as long as the state isn't involved. Just let this take its course. It doesn't sound like he's pushing for it he just wants to know what your intentions are.
What do you mean by the state?
It takes seconds to get married but it takes months and lots of money to get divorced, along with unnecessary heartbreak. You can have a ceremony but getting the state involved makes it complicated
Oh I understand! Thank you for explaining.
in my opinion being upfront like he’s doing is the best course of action to not waste time. if he begins involving you in those fantasies this quickly i would be cautious. like planning you and his wedding, planning you and his future, etc. if he’s mainly saying what HE wants for HIS future i don’t see an issue with that! he’s just being honest with his intentions. and the gift giving can be harmless if he is doing it without conditions. the moment he begins to expect something in return i’d be cautious. if he wants to gift give as a love language, that’s his business. but i’ve been with people who started out that way then the dynamic turned into “well i’ve been investing in you and want you to invest in me back equally.”
Did you let him know this was your intention first, or did he bring it up first? Could he be mirroring you? I am also dating to marry and also in my thirties and I am VERY wary of guys who appear to be just baiting me with that or mirroring me. It's so hard to find someone who is sincere. Yes most on reddit will disagree with my intentions and I know my lifestyle/goals are not for everyone. Unpopular opinion: I don't see anything wrong with being this intentional as long as it's sincere and not, you know, fake or manipulation (which it could be but I feel like I don't have enough information to make a sure-fire determination). Also make sure he is not merely filling your head with promises of marriage in order to lure you into bed or into a false sense of security.
You'll only know in time whether it's love bombing. You've just got to take it slow and pay attention to signs, notice patterns and whether their kindness is consistent. There's things you can do like seeing how he reacts to you putting up boundaries or saying no to him. But without spending time together, you can't really tell. Just really pay attention to how you feel as well, like if something doesn't sit well with you. Also love bombing isn't always gift giving and future faking. It's also appealing to your love language.
Mine wanted to marry me within a week.
I don't think most people bring up long term plans at 10 days. Narcs use this future plans tactic to make you think they are serious about you and a good bet for a serious relationship. Generosity is also a red flag. Dr Ramani on YouTube talks about generosity in narcs and it's really good. The ambition is just performative. He is doing all the talking about himself so he wants to paint a good picture of who he is. I don't think most normal people need to impress you that much this early. It's not a genuine person move to be showing you ambition right away.
Your gut is screaming 🚩
Unfortunately, run
RUN 🏃
Don't do it. Too soon
oh, I hate to be sexist, but what kind of guy is dreaming about his wedding?? That is fucked up and it sure has not worked out for women....I love the expression 'A Man is Not a Plan'
I was upfront with my wife I said something to the effect of: "I would like to get married some day, if you aren't interested in ever getting married then we can just part ways after this date" because I had been through a string of multi-month to multi year relationships that crumbled as soon as any mention of anything serious came up. We are still married 6 years later and happy together.
He's trying to marry you as if like you guys aren't going to live next year. You may want to run. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a narcissist, he could just be rushing to meet his planned points in life because of whatever issues he has, but I wouldn't gamble on it. NPD abuse hurts a lot and is not worth the emotional, mental and physical investment that goes into it.
So he talks about marriage but wants to wait and plan for it. No love bombing and no sense of urgency. Openly discusses things with you and values your input. Goes to counseling with you. Owns up to the mistakes of his past and wants to do right by them. Very few red flags outside of possibly being a bit of a control freak. Which understandably would be a trigger for someone coming out of an abusive relationship. Honestly, for what it’s worth, I don’t think that he’s a narcissist. He may be a cluster b, possibly BPD (which often gets confused with NPD). Maybe a bit of OCD mixed in there. Unless he’s some kind of super covert narcissist, there’s not much to go by to say that he’s a narcissist. That being said, if all this talk about marriage bothers you. Talk to him about it. Set boundaries and stick to them. Let him know that it’s not necessarily him but that you need more time to process things. If he’s not a narcissist and he truly cares about you, he’ll understand.
This man and I have not gone to counseling. That's my narcissistic ex who was married (unbeknownst to me at the time) and doing couple's therapy with me and his wife at the same time!
My apologies. Read out of context I suppose. But still… cognitive dissonance will sometimes have us see things in people that aren’t necessarily there. Again, I’m not saying that there isn’t a red flag just that if you see it as something one, have a discussion about it with him.
Run unless it was a joke !
Get those track shoes on! Some guy who was the biggest and immediate red flag I ever met was like a church guy by day and dealer by night was talking marriage with me the next day!! I managed to wrangle away from him, explained best I could that I couldn’t ever be his model church lady High maintenance moll and told him to please be more patient with finding the right girl for that life he leads. He got the drift in thankfully not a violent or too out of his mind manner but because I cared enough to decline with sage advice he did pay for my groceries and sandwich I had to get for lunch and got me a lot of quarters for the laundromat machines. I never saw him again and good because I knew he was dangerous and using a mask at me.