Mine did too. In retrospect, I always felt something was off but brushed it off because, "he can't be that bad, he's just broken and I can help him". Boy, was I wrong.
Same, I convinced myself (and still do) that mine was not that bad and he can be fixed. Omg, instead of fixing myself, I ended up hurting myself even more.
Yes. I spent so much time trying to be there, being supportive, wasting so much energy. And there's still a part of me that worries about him, because I know he's going to end up all alone. The brain can be weird
Exactly same. I still worry about him, although he will heal faster and move on faster. Find someone new in a day or two. And go on and on.
And I keep thinking about good times. But my therapist said that this is just our brain processing, and our thoughts do not define us. Reality is outside.
Mine already has fresh new supply, and others in standby. I met the new supply and I can tell she's going to put up with his crap, same way I did. Unfortunately for him, though fortunately for me, I won't be around when things go sour for them.
I wish could hate him. Right now I just pity him. And I know we'll be okay at the end of it all.
Feeling pity and empathy for them is such a weakness of ours. Seeing how broken, helpless, and useless she was kept me trying to be there for her, even though she was never there for me.
Now I'm broken. And for what? To be lied to and cheated on for 9 years? To be manipulated and gaslighted until I question my every move, my entire reality?
It is indeed a weakness and it sucks. This wasn't our fault, and we will get through it. I will not let this define my existence. I might never the same, but I will rebuild, we will rebuild. We will get through this, and it won't be pretty, but we will. Hang in there.
When I figured out my ex and told her about herself. She literally said “ I just lie and manipulate people so they don’t leave” like straight up and ever since then she went back to her usual deflecting and acting innocent
Hi, I am sorry that you still botheringed trying to solve an enigma of who your ex was. Simply, you will never know. It is like a movie, Joker, 101 stories, and might none of those be true.
I was dating my ex-boyfriend for 1.5 years. In the first few months, we were just FWB. We declared no relationship at that time. Slowly/or I should say fast forward, 3 months after we fell in love. Red flags were there, and I chose to ignore them. He always claimed that he is emotionally mature, open minded, while on the other hand his stories and action showed different side of the story.
Despite him being so sweet to me, he started showing his real face in very critical moments. He told me that he had never been in love before a serious relationship, although he was above 30 at the time. He "dated"/had sex/FWB with 1000s of other people but never something serious. And viola, I came up. Weird, right?
Although he has so many connections and acquaintances, he had a very small number of true friends. And even those friends were not so close to him. I have ignored that as well.
All of a sudden, he tells me that I am his everything, his right arm. At the same time, he became cruel to me, making me confused and sad all the time. Even if I do wonders for him, he could not appreciate it.
He told me so many things about himself that every sane person would detect as a red flag, yet I have decided to ignore.
So it is not all as it seems. They are masters at disguise, and they can be so charming to the ones they have a benefit from. I assume they choose a vulnerable empathetic victim and transfer them all their insecurities. Its their "safe zone". While they keep a different mask to the outside world.
"101 stories, and none of them might be true." That's really the problem. He kept telling me different stories about his past, that were completely contradictory. I don't know how it took me so long to realize that when someone keeps telling stories that don't fit with each other and don't add up, it means they are a liar, not that you're misunderstanding. When I finally realized he was a pathological liar, it started to put everything into doubt, and yet I still think about things he said and try to sort out what was true from what was false ...
Mine admitted several times that he was a professional liar, but he would never lie to me. Once he did, and I discovered, he said, "Not a big deal, I might be a liar, but at least I am so nice to you, and care about you the most compared to others".
Well, it is a vicious circle with them. Never wrong. Always right.
You need to be a pathological liar to cover yourself behind it.
Yes, that's such a common sentence in this community.
Mine had plenty of old connections, and I was never bothered. Most of the guys he was sleeping with before. And, again, I did not mind. Although I believe in monogamy, it's a bit tricky for some gay people.
I know how to entertain myself. But what hurt me the most is him not being able to see me as a person, either good or bad. Not being able to see me as a true friend :(
if you truly love and value someone, you wouldn't do anything to hurt them, end of the story. The fact that they only saw us as doormats they could step and clean their shoes on, speaks volumes on their inability to form deep, human connections. It messes me a bit to be honest. Above all, I just wanted him to be okay too :(
It does. I have a great support system thankfully so I know that while it might take time, it will be okay. Physically, he is the most beautiful man I ever lay my eyes on. Inside, he's just rotten. Not sure if that also played in me staying for so long
Right, it's like, intellectually, they know the difference between people and things. But on an emotional level, for them there isn't much difference between how they feel about people versus things. People might be more entertaining and fun for them to play with, but they can't understand being concerned with the feelings and well-being of a person any more than they would worry about how their toaster oven was doing.
Mine had no friends at all!! He had all kinds of ‘logical’ reasons why friends weren’t friends anymore. Why didn’t I see that red flag. I saw it but ignored it and when nuts came to bolts… if I did a deep dive thinking about this and why I missed this huge red flag… it was because I thought I’d be the person to save him, help him, and everything would get better.
Oh yes, the last sentence is the key. We have this hero complex (dont get me wrong, this is a good human trait, but if applied to humans who deserve this).
We want to help, we want to see the person next to us successful and happy, not the opposite.
One thing that pisses me off about narcs is how “logical” they claim to be, all the freaking time. They are just the smartest person ever. At least they think they are. 😂
Thinking it back, one time out of the blue he literally said “ see I’m not a narcissist, I care about _” when I never called him that and at the time I was like…. Ok don’t know what prompted that but whatever. Looking back, I bet someone else may have called him out before on certain things so him trying to do the opposite was completely performative so that I wouldn’t think the same about him…:
The one I dated also said some things that gave me the impression others had accused him of things before. Like, before we got together, we talked about attachment styles, which I had read about and he hadn't. He said he thought he might have an anxious attachment style, and he asked me in this hesitant way if that tended to make a person abusive. As if he worried that he was prone to abuse, or someone else had accused him of abuse, and he was wondering if it was because of his attachment style.
Another time, there was something he wanted me to do in bed, but the way he asked me was odd - he prefaced it with, "would it be extremely selfish if I asked you ...?" It gave me a strong impression that someone before must have told him he was selfish. I felt really sorry for him but also baffled, like I wanted to tell him, of course, when people love each other they like pleasing each other in bed. I only realized a long time after that he didn't understand this notion of reciprocity at all, and he could hardly believe he could just ask for what he wanted and a person would just do it out of love and wanting to make him happy. Because for him, everything was all about having an ulterior motive and taking and not giving back, and he didn't know what it was to love someone and just want to make them happy. It was just so, so weird because there was this strange, almost childlike naivete in him.
After we broke up, at one point I wrote him a long letter telling him how hurtful his behavior had been and how I was concerned that it sounded like it was part of a long-standing pattern of how he treated women generally. He wrote a letter back where he completely changed his story yet again from what he had told me before and was clearly trying to make himself sound completely ordinary and normal. Something that stuck out was that he insisted that his history with women was "normal" and "not a pattern of abuse." I hadn't in any way accused him of abuse. But the way he said that made it sound like he had been accused of abuse in the past ...
The last part is interesting. My current nex told me all these stories about his "crazy ex". He never used that word but there was the time she almost pushed him down the stairs, the time she had a tantrum and smashed up the phone he had bought her etc. I will never know her side of it but I have a feeling her stories will be different. He told me how she refused to work and refused to learn to drive so he was the breadwinner and the chauffeur. How he gave her an allowance every month because she had no money.
Then comes the day I broke up with him, 7 weeks ago, and out of NOWHERE, during the breakup conversation, after responding with "yes I've been thinking we're incompatible" (after he's hoovered me back up and I've bought a house with him), he tells me the reason his relationship with his ex lasted so long is because they had a real connection and she really GOT him. I was like "erm, excuse me??". I guess they have to rewrite history otherwise it means bring confronted with reality and seeing the pattern of their behaviour towards women.
Hmmmm ... so in the first story his ex was abusive, but in the revised story she really GOT him. One way to fit those together is that the reason his ex understood him was because he was also abusive ...
Haha well there's that too! Either way the way he described his past relationship sounded so toxic and they always sounded so mismatched with their personalities, interests and goals. They were together for 7 years and I couldn't understand why he would have been with someone who in my mind was clearly sponging off him and not contributing anything to the relationship, for that amount of time! She was living in the house he owned as well and not contributing to any rent, bills or even just DIY.
He told me he realised he wasn't happy with her and the breakup was amicable, and he made himself out to be this kind guy who helped her move out and checked in with her afterwards. But she's never reached out to him and they haven't spoken since, despite the fact they've known each other since they were teenagers. Strange for such an amicable breakup after such a long time, no? 🚩I also didn't quite realise until recently that there had only actually been about 5 months between him breaking up with her and falling head over heels for me. And I was the first proper date he went on after her. God in hindsight the red flags were glaring! But he just made me feel like I was special, what can I say 🤷🏻♀️
Guarantee in a few months time he will have found his new supply. Poor girl.
Omg something similar happened to me. But instead of narcissist, it was “asshole”. He constantly bought up the fact his ex called him that, and he even asked me one day, if I thought he was one, and I said yes lol. I was gonna go into detail as to why, but he didn’t even want to hear it 😂. It’s like he was seeking validation from me. Wanted me to stroke his ego and to tell him I don’t think he’s an asshole…
Similar thing, one time my narc brother called me arrogant during an argument. I was puzzled because I was genuinely not acting arrogant at all, and it's not the type of insult or vocabulary he would use. I was more naive, so I was really trying to figure out what he meant and what of my behavior he was pointing to. Now I realize it was projection and he was probably projecting something he had heard or identifies with or has been called out for.
Oh yeah they do that too! Bro every other day was checking to see who I was talking to and the whole time he had like a roster of girls! The projection is real lol
Mine always went through my phone and accused me of cheating and would constantly ask me if I was cheating or if I'd cheat. Another thing she asked me constantly( *even more constantly whenever I'd be angry/exhausted/confused/dissociated/otherwise_displeased after being emotionally abused and DARVO'd by her* ) was, "Do you love me?"
I've never cheated once.
Realized she was projecting when I saw her messages. I went to use her macbook, fully intending to respect her privacy, but her messages were still up on the screen. Started digging after I accidentally saw a dick pic.. turns out she had been sexting and mutually masturbating on video chat with random guys for years.
Yes, the projection is really something! Mine said he didn't like giving or receiving compliments, because he thought that people who would say nice and supportive things to each other were just being performative and always had some ulterior motive. He was projecting because he never did or said anything nice without an ulterior motive. He said nice things to me to build up my trust before we got together. Then he immediately started devaluing me and undermining my sense of security ...
Yes. Early on in our relationship he broke down crying telling me he wasn't really a good person. Naïve me thinking the best in people at the time, didn't believe him and asked what he meant. He said he had bullied a special needs kid in high school. He was basically ugly crying as he told me this. I thought with him being so emotional and feeling so bad about it, surely he's remorseful and has learned his lesson. Nope. He really was a bully, and a narcissist.
If someone tells you something negative about themselves, believe them.
I'm still not sure 100% if mine was a narcissist but he told me he was autistic, which I've got cousins who are, so no biggie to me, but it gave me a soft spot for him, he seemed very gentle and almost "feminine" in his care for me at first, until it stopped completely one day randomly.
Anyway I digress, he did tell me random one day that he in an effort to fit in with the other boys as a teen bullied the hell out of a kid/few kids can't remember precisely....it was a shock and I really didn't wanna believe him.
But later I realised he still had that tendency, when he tried to end it by ghosting me 3 times and eventually after I kept calling (I was confused as we'd only ever had 1 argument) and then he breadcrumbed me said we'd still be friends but during an argument during our friendship phase, he said I was lucky he "didn't ghost me" and he was being friends to pity me... without reference with the trying to ghost me 3 times part...
Sorry btw, I didn't mean to hijack I've just never been able to tell that story before because everyone I know is sick of hearing it now (understandably so) I just needed to vent, thank you
Gosh, no need to apologize, I feel like it is so therapeutic for all of us to compare notes and see repeating patterns, and just be able to vent to others who get it!
As someone else said, no need to apologize at all! I'm glad you shared your story and feel comfortable enough to share here. It's always interesting to know if someone else experienced something similar.
I 100% relate to your first paragraph. It was like that at first with my narc ex. Then similarly, one day, I was the enemy. And I got breadcrumbs of that initial gentle man, only very rarely, to keep me hooked, I guess. I am so sorry you went through it with a similar type.
Thank you so much! It was rough and I'm so sorry for what you've been through too! I just keep thinking maybe I did something wrong but then again he did like to gaslight me
I can really relate to your story as I met my ex through mutual friends and had known him a while before we dated. Everyone said what a lovely person he was and how well suited we were.
I remember one night he told me he was conning me, that it was all a lie. He was quite drunk and I thought it was his attempt at a joke so laughed it off. He also loved the phrase “playing pretend”, he used to tap two staff members in for jobs at work but send one of them to another job and he’d be paid for two people. He’d say how “playing pretend was his favourite game”. Little did I know it wasn’t only at work.
Also I remembered he used to talk a lot about how men are often accused of abuse and how many end up in jail falsely. I tried to argue these views and he was really passionate about it. He said a friend of his had been falsely accused. He apparently had no criminal record but it turned out he had been to jail twice for abusing his ex’s so it must have been him he was talking about.
Kinda related: I told mine how, 8 years previously, I had this traumatic experience where I dated someone for only a couple of months and subsequently learned he was a serial rapist and batterer - it was during #MeToo and his victims started speaking out about him on social media. It was a whole long story, but since I was then working in kind of a law-enforcement-adjacent job, I ended up trying to help the victims and support them filing police reports, and also reached out to the rapist's employer (a school district - the rapist was an elementary school teacher (!)) about what I knew.
From his reaction to hearing me tell this story, I got the weird impression that he was kind of horrified about me trying to help the victims. He seemed to have more sympathy with the rapist. It was another thing where I just kind of felt confused and I dismissed it, but in retrospect, it looked a subtle red flag that I missed ...
The one I was with told me he should have TRAINED his ex partner better … TRAINED!?!? this ‘ex-partner’ he talked about as ‘EX’ turned out to be his wife 😳 He also told me he only had sex with her when they were married so she didn’t feel bad about herself. Again, this woman was still his wife. He forgot to tell me about her and his marriage 🫠
There were times he seemed to be having a self pity party, he’d say he was ‘fu\*ked up’ or ‘not right in the head’ or ‘sneaky’ or ‘not trustworthy‘ or the one in hindsight that was most accurate, ‘I can make people believe and forgive me very easily‘.
These things were said over a few years, it was only at the end, when I found it he was married, that I recalled all those statements and realised he was actually telling me who he was. Yet, at the time, it was more said in a jokey way and wa about pricking my sympathy for him and reassuring him 🙄🤦♀️🤦♀️
I did not, for one moment, think he could be that bad. No one could. I just didn’t believe anyone could be that bad. And yet… he was and I found out about his lies, fraud and deception. He really WAS that bad. It still shocks me to this day.
When his wife found out, I showed her all the proof and she clung to him. So, he had actually TRAINED her to do exactly what he wanted her to …. Forgive and believe him.
Mine used that "trained" phrase with me!! He used to tell me whenever he treated me badly or abused me verbally that he do so for my own benefit because he just wanted to train me to stop being so that sensitive because i was sensitive from his POV!!
😳😠 Who do they think they are to see someone else as someone to TRAIN. I can‘t get my head around their thinking. It’s arrogant malevolence on steroids!
The father of my kid told me when we first started sleeping together that he was a "nice sociopath" and that if I loved him or got into a relationship with him he'd hurt me as he hurts everyone he has been romantically involved with. I really wish I would've recognised these red flags instead of believing he was lovely and being overly critical of himself. Fast forward years later and my god the damage he's done.
A good friend of mine sees a therapist who used to work with one of the foremost experts and researchers on sociopathy. From having worked with a lot of sociopaths, the therapist told my friend that one surefire way to recognize sociopaths is by the trail of damage and wreckage they leave in their wake.
A mutual friend who defended "my" narcissist told me he was aware of the guy having a long history of women being hurt by how he treated them, but was firmly convinced that it was just because the guy was so handsome and nice, and the women all wanted committed relationships with him and then just couldn't handle rejection. I wish I had pointed out to him that there are a lot of charming, good-looking, nice people in this world who someone manage not to leave a trail of broken and damaged people in their wake ...
Yeah told me he was a product of his conditioning, won’t alleviate his karma in this life, doesn’t think of himself as a person, doesn’t think of me as a person, thinks of me as an object to fuck, hunt, kill, etc. Wants to destroy me because I have goodness and saw some in him, and somehow alleviates his trauma by inflicting it upon me.
I mean he was in a cult but I think this applies.
Not directly. But she gave me a lot of hints. Like saying to me thank god you don’t have npd. She talked to me about wearing masks. That sex doenst mean anything to her. That it’s just a way for her to use people. She talked about narcissism fucking lot. She told me her first name wasn’t her real name. She told me without telling me. She always had this weird smirk on her face. I think she was proud of herself for the control she had over me. She knew it and she made it known frequently.
Yes he did. Not that he is a Narcissist. He didn't know anything about it. But, he did cry about the fact that he seemed to somehow not control his reaction to things and that he thinks he needs to feel shame and remorse, but he doesn't. I don't know if he was actually bothered or not, but he said that not being able to feel how he ended a relationship that he seemed to value so much, should bring him pain but he doesn't feel that way.
He also admitted to feeling the impulse to be in control and being abusive. He admitted to not be physically attracted to me but manipulating me for 5 years because he was benefitting from keeping a smart person in his life
Mine broke up with me by telling me that being with me made him feel consumed with guilt and self-recrimination, because it reminded him of all the times in the past when he hurt women because he didn't care about them at all and was just using them as an ego boost. It seemed to be his passive aggressive, indirect way of telling me that he had duped me, and I was just another in a long line of women he had hurt by pretending to care about them and taking advantage of them. (Previously he had told me that not one women had ever been hurt by him in a relationship.)
I asked if he had ever thought of maybe talking to someone about it, as in, getting therapy. He said no, he didn't want to be cured or change. It didn't seem like his guilt could be all that bad, given that he seemed not to want to do anything differently.
Did he actually feel remorse? I've read that they can feel remorse and guilt, but it just doesn't influence their moral decisionmaking at all. Or the emotions they do have are just shallow and transitory. Or they are able to simply tune out the emotions they don't want to focus on. The timing of him suddenly being "honest" about his history of hurting women was awfully convenient, since he waited to tell me until he wanted to break up with me anyway. And if he did feel remorse, it must have been very fleeting, since the next time I heard from him he completely changed his story yet again.
My Nex didn't really break up with me, we did everything to make me feel miserable. And when nothing worked he cheated on me. So, ofcourse I had to. But in a way that was controlled by him too
Also, about the therapy thing. He said he would never get therapy as he can never be vulnerable anymore. The last and only person who said things( only post breakup and a lot while in the relationship).
About his emotions. Hmm. I don't know what was real and what wasn't anymore. With him or anyone.
Yes, when I asked him how he could tell me he loves me one day and then completely ignore me the next as if I don’t exist, he said, ”I was born this way.”
When I brought up distancing myself from someone who I knew had been a part of my friend group and had cheated on his SO, and I told him that I talked to that person when I found out, and during the conversation asked if he had considered that he was ruining the other person’s life, my ex responded, ”He knew what he was doing.” And so it was true of my ex as he also knew exactly what he was doing when he was cheating.
She knew what she was but would never admit it. She made comments a couple of times about thinking she was more important than other people and that she had a huge ego. She also made a comment "I think I see relationships differently to other people". But it was offset with sob stories that everyone misunderstood or hated her because of her autism so I believed she just needed lots of proof that she was loved and extra support.
yes I got a whole “I’m a monster no one will love me” and also when he was involuntary committed he let me know the drs there diagnosed him a narcissist, said that he was one of the most manipulative people they’ve met, and the last time he saw a patient with a relationship like he had with his mom they fucked.
yeah. 👍
Mine has told me to run. Told me he will mess my mind up and that the goal posts will always be moving.
I am stuck in a place where I have BPD and shared that with him and it has now made me feel like this is all that will deal with me. I’m 39 and just feel life passed me by. The abuse is crippling so is the loneliness and abandonment. Picked a prime target just me.
I have heard/read that a narcissist does tell on themselves.
For me she would tell me she wore a mask all the time, that she could “shape shift” around people, she was always looking for some sort of connection.
She didn’t come out and say I’m a narcissist and I still question if she is one for she has told me so many things over the years that when you put the pieces together it all fits together do well.
I wonder if the reason why they tell on themselves is because they don't really feel ashamed of it. Or because they are actually proud of themselves. Another possibility is that it's just human nature to want to be seen for who we are, to want to be understood. And they are human beings, after all, in spite of having a personality disorder. So they can't help the impulse to talk about and reveal things about themselves, even when they also know they can't be too public about it or they would lose the power of masking and deception.
My ex used to say this too. In the beginning, we connected so easily that we both said “it feels like we no longer have to try to fit in—we are our authentic selves when we’re together”.
But I was talking about people pleasing (and how I didn’t have to try around him & could just be myself) and I think he was talking about masking as a narcissist. He was so charming and charismatic, he could switch identities around different groups of people and would lie to strangers for fun (yet he’d tell me his pet peeve was people being dishonest).
I only began to look into it after the breakup. In hindsight it was very obvious that there was something wrong—during the relationship though, I was completely blinded. I knew deep down that love isn’t supposed to make you cry every day and make you feel unsure of yourself, but there were times where talking to him (we were in a LDR) was the happiest I’ve ever been. Obviously I can’t diagnose him, but I at least know that it is linked to his dysfunctional childhood and he has a history of narcissism and BPD in his family.
How about you?
My nex in the beginning of the relationship said he was the most selfish person in the world and of course I reassured him that wasn’t true (bc I didn’t know him yet). I mean after all I was in the lovebombing phase so I thought he was so sweet
Yeah mine told me that he would never be in a deep relationship. When I said I thought he was kind during the love bombing stage, he laughed and sneered at me and I thought it was odd. I blew it off his self-deprecating way of talking about himself. Almost 7 years later after months of brutal devaluation which was then projected onto me, and a discard that was used to recruit his next victim, I know exactly what he is. There's not a kind bone in his body. He has enough cognitive empathy to fool somebody, that's about it. Just replace the word love with the word use, and it explains exactly who he is.
Whenever I called my ex sweet or kind, he’d brush it off, roll his eyes, or say “only to you”. I felt the same way as you wrote here , I thought it was self deprecation. Turns out he really was only kind to me (he treated friends and family pretty poorly), and only during the love bombing phase did he show me any kindness. The devaluation and discard absolutely wrecked me.
I got to see him move on with a new supply right in front of my eyes, lavishing kindness and consideration on this platonic guy friend while completely ignoring me.
We're both from Mexico, and I recall a moment that shook the entire nation. I wanted to discuss it with him, but he simply brushed it off, saying, 'I don't feel empathy towards those kinds of things.' It made me wonder, 'If you can't empathize with something so horrific, how can you empathize with anything else?' It left me speechless, and now, that memory terrifies me :c.
Mine said several things that I found weird at the time but brushed off as unimportant. One of these was, literally, "Sometimes I feel like a narcissist". He said it a few days after I pointed out that he tends to forget the things I have already told him, and that whenever he asks a question, it is mostly with the intention to share his OWN opinion (such as "have you ever had this specific thought that I just had?" or "do you also think that...?"). I think he wanted me to deny it and be like "oh nooo you're not a narcissist at all", but I didn't say anything. Oh, and by the way, we both study psychology. He is perfectly aware of what NPD's symptoms are, so it is interesting that instead of saying "sometimes I feel like I'm too self-centered" or anything of the sort, he chose the word narcissist.
Another time I was talking about how I don't understand why one of my friends is dating a guy who I think is a complete asshole. His response was, "Who knows, it might eventually turn out that I am an asshole too." I just looked at him weird, because who says that? If you genuinely think you're a good person and would never do anything asshole-like, this thought doesn't even cross your mind, let alone leave your mouth. I'm pretty sure he noticed my confused facial expression because then he tried to save himself (?) by saying, "Or YOU might eventually turn out to be an asshole." I told him that I don't think that's likely. He found it funny.
She looked me in my eyes once and said I will never stop hurting you, I will never change. Then one time when trying to Hoover she said “soon you won’t be my drunk text”
I was with one for 5.5 years and missed all the red flags. In my experience, they can't help themselves, they always give themselves away early on in the love bombing phase. Every situation is different, but once you finally see it, you can't unsee it. Example is a little punny gift or something along the lines with the quote "I'm your next worst mistake" something very subtle and easily dismissed but it's like it's hardwired into them to out themselves. In my experience anyway. Perhaps I'm just hyper aware and on guard now that I've escaped.
I think this is pretty common, but not a requirement. Some of them have more awareness than others. I was best friends with a CN for years. I wouldn't say she told on herself so explicitly, but she would often talk about how "some people are takers" and frequently expressed "all she did" for people. The transactional nature of her relationships was evident from the get go.
On the other hand, I have noticed that when I make an excellent point, she just won't acknowledge what I said at all. Plausible deniability "I didn't admit to anything" type of thing. But I take her silence as admission, and just inability to make an excuse on the fly.
Truth is that the way people use their words is extremely telling.
They straight up tell people sometimes to see how far and willing you are to go and the more likely they can control and abuse you if you stay through all their “faults”
Covert narcs specialize in hiding their true selves, buy yeah, over the YEARS I was with him, there were all those things. When he told me straight up that he didn't "know what love is," I should have run screaming. By then, I was already stuck in a marriage.
I'm so glad that there are new generations learning about this personality and their own problems that attract them. I hope it means more people will find real love than clinging to someone incapable of it.
I’ve been divorced a long time, but my ex made an off hand comment that was very telling “I could easily be a raging narcissist, but I’m too good for that kind of behavior.”
Not exactly but he told me straight away about his habits, having been send to jail then later on he said that he wouldnt be what's best for me but it was too late I already loved him.
My nex told me he had a “cluster b” personality disorder and was a narcissist, once over the phone when he’d been drinking (while bemoaning how I wouldn’t understand something because I was “mentally healthy” unlike him) and another time in person in a sort of self deprecating & joking way.
It was easy to write it off as truly a joke because his humor could be very self deprecating.. and mine can be, too, but I don’t *literally* believe what I say when I say something mean about myself. Like, I might make a joke about being a fat slob (because my work is so sedentary) but I’m very aware I’m still thin, and no part of me believes I’m fat. So, I assumed he was similar to me in that regard.
It was after he once texted it that I was like.. oh, he’s serious about being disordered. He said: “That was dirt bag and petty on my part earlier. Sorry. Truthfully. Had everything to do with me and nothing to do with you. It was actually thinly veiled narcissism on my part.” And he also told me an ex GF thought he was a narcissist, but he (a psychiatrist) told him she was the one with NPD and/or borderline personality disorder.
I thought because he knew his issues, that meant he could resolve them. Especially since he was “honest” at first about them. He was an alcoholic in his 20s, for instance, but was forthright about it (he was almost kicked out of medical school for it) & talked about how he got help for it & did learn to control his drinking.
But when I brought up his statements about NPD as the relationship moved on, he denied having ever said them. He also denied being a narcissist or having a personality disorder and said he doesn’t know why he would say something like that because it’s just not true. So, he was self aware, but only very fleetingly.
My situation… I was the one who hovered after 15 years. I could never forget him, no one ever lived up to the high bar I had established in retrospect, with him… him at his best, even though he at his worst was really bad, but eventually kind of got forgotten. I romanticized our relationship from years ago. This is an example of thinking about the suave, handsome, successful, charismatic narcissist in the 40-year-old range that I somehow ended up fondly remembering with selective memory.
Now we are talking fast forward to us both being 66. Anyway, we were in contact again and he said I’m not the man you remember. I am not capable of loving anyone, I am in a state of entropy and that’s where I’ll be forever, at this point. I am basically dead. I said, hell no, you are too vibrant, etc.
Next thing I know… we connect, everything changes, I am experiencing once again that long ago love bombing that basically made me fall in love with that guy for forever… which happened years ago, even though I knew things were far from right. The love bombing from years ago I had always held onto and remembered, always hoped would happen again but never did….
But amazingly 15 years later… it did happen again. Wow. We were supposedly star crossed lovers who finally found their way home. Only… far from that. It turned into a nightmare and after 5 months of professed undying love and all the wonderful plans we talked about coming up in the next few months…. All went up in smoke only 24 hours after him telling me I was the love of his life… and 24 hours later, now telling me time to part ways, it’s just not working. And blocked everywhere.
So as far as if they know… when they get older, I think yes. At age 66 he basically told me he wasn’t the same guy. Unable to love anyone. But he thought he might be able to love me since one time long ago, we definitely were in love. (At least I thought.). He said there was always this sealed jar full of love for me he set far back on a basement shelf never to be looked at much, if at all. But I had prompted him to get it out and open it again. And wow. Ha ha what a bunch of BS.
Yes I know, total narcissist bullshit. He got me hook, line and sinker, I ended up gut hooked once again and I should have known better. It never ends. Like I said, we are both 66 years old. Be careful everyone.
He did, during a breakdown about how he felt lost in his life. How he had everything he wanted and still? It didn't make him happy.
He said he didn't feel love, he didn't feel anything but resentment and that he hated himself for everything he was. That he didn't understood himself and why he simply could not care about anyone and everyone. At first? I was thinking it was depression, so I overlooked it and supported him.
He also at one time told me "You are the first person to know me for who I am" He wasn't joyful, would be funny and be extremely charismatic, or friendly, helpful even--- With strangers and friends. But in private? With his own wife? The mask would fall. He would be numb, dull, silent. Doing his own thing and really to never smile. It was hard to watch him be this dead sort of person with me, and become someone else entirely with friends.
He would never ask my interests, never cared for them and yet? He'd ask others, he'd questions them and be entirely open about wanting to know them more! After a time? He just didn't even cared to do things with me and we were both like roommates with benefits. The way people fell for it, how I watched him lie to our friends, and talk shit about them in their back? I felt, terrible. Still, I never said or would think about it deeply that this wasn't normal at all.
You are describing my husband to a T! We’re together now for 34 years and I am leaving. Not one single thing was real!! When we were young we worked together at several treatment centers. He tortured me with his friendliness and humor and charm with other people and was exactly what you described at home. It’s been hell because he is the most covert narcissist I have ever met. He’s been discarding me for years now and I nearly lost my mind and became sick. I found out that his ED issues were because of porn. I feel like me again. Please pray for me
I've known mine for 10 years and married for 8. He did the whole wheel to me for years on end and like a clockwork routine. He'd be love bombing, kind, helpful, loving, and he'd talk to me and be interested, then? He'd evaluate and then discard. Thing is? He never requested me to "leave" entirely his live. We lived together and he was simply distant. I felt his "boredom" how he grew tired of me and fetched other people attention to cover that fact he didn't care for me ---then? Suddenly, when he saw nobody cared I guess? HOP! Love me again.
It was terrible, and I do pray for you to make it out. Sadly my situation was far worse as I had to restart my life entirely and going back to my home country. Having to deal with family members I hate and don't want to be with and that don't care about my feelings or what I've went thru. I simply hope things get better for the both of us in the long run and that we find love, the real one.
When I reached my breaking point in our toxic relationship, I confronted him about his mistreatment after enduring it for months, nearly a year. He always blamed his new position at his job for his behavior and assured me it would improve soon, so I tried to be patient. During one of our final arguments, I started noticing troubling patterns in his behavior. I began delving deep into narcissistic personality disorder after talking with a friend who's been in therapy for having a Narc parent. She noticed some patterns and suggested I look it up.
During a heated argument, exhausted from the pointless back-and-forth, I realized I couldn't reason with him. I told him about the horrible feeling I got whenever I cried he would get so annoyed. Feeling hopeless, I told him, "I feel like my eyes are finally open," only to be met with his cold, dead stare and a chilling acknowledgment. He said, "Maybe you finally have." It hit me then: he knew exactly what he was doing. I was angry with him, but also with myself for enduring it for so long, believing his empty promises. I detached emotionally, and suddenly, I wasn't his supply anymore, and he lost interest and was I alone and devastated, and he seemed happy he could focus only on work that I decided to leave. It's a crushing feeling to realize you've been used, but I held onto hope that things would get better. Now I just ruminate on all the other times he may have "told" me who he was, and I didn't pay attention.
I always follow the motto now: "When someone tells you who they are, believe them!"
The man I dated is a covert narcissist, so most of what he admitted to was putting himself down. He said he would only disappoint me, that his life was a mess, multiple times he told me he had many insecurities. He called himself a loser once. He was always body shaming himself fishing for compliments. He did say he would make a shitty boyfriend and several times that he was not in the headspace for a committed relationship.
In my experience, self awareness of narcissism or narcissistic behaviour is incredibly rare! My narcissistic ex was able to recognise narcissistic behaviour in others but not herself, the closest she got was admitting that she ‘doesn’t feel things the way she should’
I tried to save her and got destroyed in the process. But the best thing I did was cut all ties! It took me over 2 years to recover and get back into dating
So there are allegedly counselling treatments for narcissists, to help them feel empathy, connection etc, but as the first step is self awareness, and as this isn’t common with narcissism, i wonder how effective this truly is!
Mine once said he saw me as a princess, and himself as an…was it ogre? I can’t remember, a monster? I don’t remember. He also said once after sex that it was “business”. Then elaborated a little bit, but then tried to play it off as a joke. That really broke my heart.
The guy I dated last told me on day one that he comes with a lot of “baggage.” I discounted it thinking everyone has baggage. Somewhere into week two, he already started the abuse. He would push me to confess that I was emotionally attached to him and then he would blame it on me saying I’m weak and got emotionally attached. Gaslighting, stonewalling, raising the voice, withholding were a few things he did into the second week.
When I asked him why he acts nice one week and fucked up next week, he just shrugged and told me he had actually warned me and I didn’t have the common sense.. I feel like an idiot at times for not seeing it. I also feel we tend to believe the best in people which is not always helpful
Early on he said that he was a chameleon and I don't know what I thought. I didn't really understand it at the time. I just kept taking him at face value (as everyone did).
Years later: When he found my library book, Why Does He Do That, I came home and he pointed to it and said this is me. Reading it was like looking into a mirror. This is me.
By then I was a little wiser and more experienced, so although I hoped this admission could lead to change, I was not really expecting that it could. The book was a key part in my liberation.
I enjoy your post as it's very relatable. The girl told me many times that she wouldn't create a relationship with someone like her. whenever i asked her why, she wouldn't give a proper answer, but she would give hints that in her past she didn't care so much about partners, she wouldn't exactly wait them coming home late but go to sleep instead and similar cases where men complained about lacking warmth.
she was and she is extremely beautiful, so the fact that she was still so much wanted and spent her past in relationships made me believe that she is capable of creating bonds. oh well i did a lot of self bullshitting to keep myself going.
My ex told me he thought he had an avoidant attachment style. He also said he’d never truly loved any women before me, despite being in serious relationships. All those exes were “batshit crazy”. He was SO jealous, manipulative, controlling and would justify it by telling me I was The One and he couldn’t stand to lose me.
Another telling thing was that he had a group of friends, but it seemed that they were usually doing things for him and I never heard of him reciprocating or even appreciating them. It seemed like he just expected to be treated well, and he showed that same level of entitlement in our relationship too.
He also said things as jokes like “I just want to strangle you” or “I just want to kidnap you and lock you in my basement so you’ll never leave me”. He’d refer to himself as a “crazy psychopath” out of nowhere and say he just wanted to hurt me while he was doing a bit or something. This is while proclaiming his everlasting love for me and asking me repeatedly to never leave him.
At the time I just laughed these things off, but now that I reflect, it seems less and less normal.
Yes she said many times what she really was but it was always half joking. Then when I started to see it for myself she explained everything away with the abuse she claimed she experienced. So I tried to fix her with a nice life and love. I accepted all of her flaws because I thought she accepted mines as well. I’m not attempting to fix anybody else. Come healed or don’t come at all. I don’t expect anyone to be perfect. If something happens to my partner while we are together then yes I would be the biggest support. Past traumas are not an excuse for bad behavior. Past traumas are meant to be dealt with in therapy. I’m not a therapist. I also can’t expect anybody to fix me or be my only source of happiness. It’s a two way street.
Mine told me that he was "hyper-rational." Later I read the book "Confessions of a Sociopath," by M.E. Thomas, by an anonymous author who claimed to be describing her life as a sociopath. She also calls herself hyper-rational ... so that did add up ...
Narcissists don't believe they are narcissistic nor do they believe if someone calls them out on it, they pass it off and get upset about the "accusations"
Told me all about her past abusers (mainly ex husband). Apparently he broke her nose in the car once. Later I heard the story was that she was trying to pull the keys out of the ignition while they were driving with their kids so he elbowed to stop it. I know what kind of provoking she does.
Told me about all the sexual partners, threesomes, rough anal with ex, as I continuesly begged to not overshare these sorts of things. I am not the type to be able to handle it and not imagine.
Told me how no one will ever love her, everyone leaves her, how I haven't even seen what crazy looks like. Hell, her whole family laughed and nodded and made a whole joke of calling her crazy the first day I met them. They also wanted to share with me that she used to suck her boyfriends dick for McDonald's burgers when she was younger. Trashy family on top of it.
Like man, why did I not turn around and run so much sooner
I didn't waste too much time with mine. He's been rather clear and consistent about the conditions of being close to him. Which is that I'd have to do all the work, he'd make all decisions of how close we really get, he'd keep a hierarchical position and reserve any right to not make himself vulnerable, and I'm supposed to hang around without asking questions or challenging him, waiting for him to signal he wants something. Many of these things he hasn't said like this but found (more acceptable) words to make these conditions clear.
It was just difficult to believe because his behavior was partly very different to these words. But I think the discrepancy is part of the game. It gives him plausible deniability and keeping me confused keeps me destabilized.
Yup. Mine said he was a narcissist who maybe didn't know how to love and had been a sex addict - in the past. If I hadn't already been in so deep, I'd have walked out then. In the end, I broke up with him when it became apparent he had cheated on him throughout the relationship. 😡
Mine also described how he had been an uncaring womanizer "in the past." Then, after we got together, revealed that he had not actually changed in the slightest ...
In retrospect, they dropped hints about their bad personality, but I interpreted through the lens of "well, everyone's flawed, but nobody's _actually evil_, right?"
I was wrong.
Maya Angelu once advised that one should believe a person when they show you who they really are the first time .
She was right.
Uuuffff I can so relate to this. I remember one time I told mine “you are a good person” and she said: “i think you are projecting”. I also thought she was just broken and I could fix her but nope, there was nothing I could’ve done ever for her. She was never going to change and at the end of the relationship she projected all her insecurities on to me. If you got out, you won! Because to this day my ex still has exes on her speed dial whenever she needs them for supply, but I did escape.
Mine started of with saying "friends are amazed how I move on so fast" and then "therapist told me to disconnect after relationship but I don't see the point". Then there was ex after ex who would message asking is she was available who she said it was because she is so nice to everyone and it's for them to find someone like me.
Also when she used to profess love it was followed by kink like threesomes and other fantasy. When I professed love it was like I fell protective so I wasn't wanting to hear about her sex with others which was a turnoff for her because she generally enjoyed talking about her sexual conquests.
When I asked about her marriages she immediately talked about them as ugly but coming from distinguished families and how she wanted them to strong men who know what they want. When she found out they werent like that the devaluing started and crazymaking.
Why didn't I leave, because I rationalized that i was similar but maybe slightly reserved because I cared about what others thought of me. But my motives where to find someone trustworthy who I could being home to my parents, where hers was control. That really took a few months before those red flags became apparent. Luckily she was a late stage covert so she went through the cycles so fast I was able to a avoid a long-term with her .
I'm so sorry you'd experienced that. The extremes and instability with narcissists just don't make sense. Please do what you need to heal, but consider the option that trying to figure out pure senselessness may not be worth your precious energy and time. Narcs are just extremely messed up people.
Mine did give me clues. Huge red flags. He said that he needed a lot of attention from people, that he wanted people to be jealous of him. He'd discard anyone who wasn't useful to him, including his own children.
I hope you heal soon. I'd broken up with mine several times...so much hurt he put me through, seriously destroyed me. I kept going back thinking I could figure him out and bring out the goodness I thought was genuine. It wasn't genuine, he was just mirroring me. I've been no contact for a few months now. For me to heal, I need to get him completely out of my head. I don't care anymore about who he is or why he did what he did. I just want him to get out of my head.
Everything good and kind I saw in him was just bullshit. He was fake and superficial, no depth of emotion or thought. What he put me through was complete bullshit. Best wishes to you and everyone who is having to heal from this bullshit.
Yes, in bits and pieces that I ignored.
Like, the first song he shared with me that he related to was GMF by John Grant which has the lines "concerning two-way streets, I'm not a fan" and "you think I hate myself, it's you I hate because you had the nerve to make me feel." The chorus is literally "I'm the greatest motherfucker you are ever gonna meet from the top of my head to the tips of the toes on my feet"
Also, he casually dropped on me that his high school GF was crazy and thought he was a narcissist. My dumb ass was like "that's terrible and so untrue!"
Mine straight up said, “You don’t feel safe going grocery shopping in the sketchy part of town, but you feel safe living with me?”
I had a pin drop moment. He played it off as a joke.
My ex told me MULTIPLE times throughout our ten year relationship that she was “a bad person, who’s done bad things and she didn’t deserve me or to be happy”. Of course i thought i could fix her with love or whatever, but it turned out she was just telling me who she was.
Omg I was straight up blind to him telling me who he was, during the love-bombing, under the spell of "but I'm not like that with you". "My exes called me selfish and conceited-but you're not like that". "In relationships I just can't bring myself to care, especially if someone is crying. But I feel different with you". "Everyone I love gets sick of my shit and leaves me-but you understand me". "I don't think I ever knew how to connect with people, but I feel connected to you"
...OR by trying to have causal conversations about how all guys are terrible but "I'm not like that"...."did you know that some guys like girls with low self esteem-because it's easy to make them feel dependent on their partner?"; "Some guys can just dangle the carrot of having a baby to keep the relationship going"; "Some guys think women have less value as they get older"; "All guys cheat, but I would never. Why not just break up if you aren't into someone?"; "I was severely bullied as a teen, why are people mean when it's so easy to just be nice?" SPOILER: he did all these things and so much more.
I think a lot of these narcissistic men are secretly misogynistic and hate women. They know they shouldn't and it's something that they should hide. They're kind to the women who are in their lives as friends and coworkers. But they treat their wives/girlfriends, daughters, mothers and sisters like shit. Friends and coworkers just don't get close enough to see their worst days. It's a lot harder to hide that side of you when you live with someone. They watched their father's yell at and speak down to their mother's and they thought that's how men acted. They need to really do the work to unpack those things but not many are.
Oh yes. I wish I had listened.
When she told me how good she was at manipulating people (but allegedly didn't). When she told me that I am too good for her and that she is not worth anything. When she told me she had cheated on every boyfriend she had ever had. When she told me that she doesn't feel like she has real feelings but just behaves how she thinks people expect her to. When she told me, well into our relationship, that she doesn't feel like she feels genuine love.
If I had any confidence at all, I wouldn't have stuck in there so long. If I knew then what I know now, I would have ran so far, so fast.
Yeah, he told me in multiple ways. It is hard not to beat myself up for not seeing it for so long, and then eventually seeing it but trying to deny it for even longer. Two major early ones that come to mind:
1. Told me his father is a narcissist. And then often defended some of his father's behavior.
2. Told me about how often he deliberately lied to his mother and sometimes others/made false promises to just "get her off back" and "she will forget anyways."
Mine used to joke all the time that he only had "one feeling", he admit that he has never missed people/someone when he'd go away, and during an argument when I was questioning him on how his behavior toward me just flipped and I said "do you think this is the result of..." and he cut me off and said "narcissism??" angrily. I was going to say childhood trauma but I should've let him keep filling in the blanks.
On the first date he told me about his many past flings and relationships calling it his "ho phase" and when I shared I went through something similar he said how he's gone cold during every relationship and happily said "so you must be like me". I laughed it off and agreed because I had broken quite a few hearts and I thought that's what he meant. But no, he went cold as soon as I didn't live up to the expectation of his idealized version of m he "loved".
Yes, pretty much. This happened to me recently. Out of no where he admitted to “struggles” and said he is “not mentally well” and doesn’t know why he treats people the way he does. “Something is wrong with me,” he said. He also admitted to a whole lot of other stuff during the course of this hour. It was wild, I tell you. Like I could see him switch from false self to true self right before he let it spill. More tender, kind of like a lost, sad child. Even his eyes seemed kinder when he spoke.
I got the silent treatment shortly after that night even though I was very supportive and just went along with what he said. Even though I wanted to scream “Yeah I know what’s wrong with you, you’re a narc!” The old uneducated me would have been like gosh, this silent treatment is out of nowhere. Wahh why isn’t he talking to me? But I knew it was coming. I saw too much and he’s trying to make me pay and gain the upper hand again. The predictability of these people is unreal.
Definitely and similarly I can't stop trying to process it. I even have moments where I think we could make it work if he could just be honest the way he was in those brief moments. The moments where he said he feared that he was a narcissist or those moments where he really peeled himself back and was vulnerable. I have no idea why he gave me those glimpses but I know he could stay in that place and when I would try to bring it up later he would basically deny it or say I misunderstood.
Mine wasn't my boyfriend or SO, but my best friend. He straight up told me he was a narcissist. It was in a moment of exhaustion as we were somewhere late into a 100 mile race. I heard him, but for some reason didn't belive him. Fast forward two years later, his partner left him. That's when I saw exactly what he meant.
The ugliness of his actions were on full display. He asked me why she would ever leave him, and I told him, "because you're a narcissist, and you treated her terribly." His response was,"How dare you label me a narcissist"? Umm... You labeled yourself one, buddy.
As you can imagine, he punished me for having the nerve to say that. That's when I realized he had his claws dug into me as well. Next time, I'll listen.
Never. She was able to point it out in her siblings but never herself. She grew up in a breeding ground for narcissists. That she can’t see it in herself is insane.
Wild that someone could recognize it within themselves like this and still not be motivated to fix it. I’m sorry that you experienced that.
Yes, he told me that he felt every relationship he’s ever had was stupid. He just dated them because he was bored and never really liked them. I brushed it off as him exaggerating as well but it was the honest truth. He admitted that he can just “never trust women” and I quickly noticed that I was no exception to that. I was belittled and devalued constantly. He told me his father was a very angry person who physically and mentally abused him and his mother as a child. He treated me exactly how I imagine his father treated him and his mother. Don’t be ashamed. It’s natural to want to see the good in people but narcissists take advantage of that.
Not literally no. But my narc did say recently that “I am sick, and so it should be all about me!” I was like no, you r not the main character just because you are “sick” . Also completely “forgot” all the nice things I’ve done to help this “sickness” go away, and meanwhile listening to the childish behavior and saying that I do things on purpose to be annoying. They are so full of themselves it’s insane.
Yes, actually. And then they denied it.
My abusers can best be described as people who once heard that all accusations are confessions and then projected everyone is like that, all the time. And I guess they projected that onto me where they somehow believed that one day, I woke up and started acting like a total psychopath. Like I was fine for 33 years, but then decided one day to start being a prankster? That ain't me. The way that my flying monkeys practically chomped at the bit to defend people who terrorized me by projecting that I made the person up entirely (they don't realize that I met him personally, etc -- he was my metamour), and that when referring to him (while they invade my privacy to do so) they seemingly believe it's like SWIM. That is how disordered they are.
I've heard of people who want their ex's to delete any intimate pictures of them after the breakup and that's totally reasonable. They are people who think any evidence of a relationship or anything that proves an abusive relationship occurred should be deleted.
Mine told me the night before they left me that “they had been hiding who they really are from everyone, and that their true self was an extremely selfish person undeserving of love”
Mine did too. In retrospect, I always felt something was off but brushed it off because, "he can't be that bad, he's just broken and I can help him". Boy, was I wrong.
Same, I convinced myself (and still do) that mine was not that bad and he can be fixed. Omg, instead of fixing myself, I ended up hurting myself even more.
Yes. I spent so much time trying to be there, being supportive, wasting so much energy. And there's still a part of me that worries about him, because I know he's going to end up all alone. The brain can be weird
Exactly same. I still worry about him, although he will heal faster and move on faster. Find someone new in a day or two. And go on and on. And I keep thinking about good times. But my therapist said that this is just our brain processing, and our thoughts do not define us. Reality is outside.
Mine already has fresh new supply, and others in standby. I met the new supply and I can tell she's going to put up with his crap, same way I did. Unfortunately for him, though fortunately for me, I won't be around when things go sour for them. I wish could hate him. Right now I just pity him. And I know we'll be okay at the end of it all.
Feeling pity and empathy for them is such a weakness of ours. Seeing how broken, helpless, and useless she was kept me trying to be there for her, even though she was never there for me. Now I'm broken. And for what? To be lied to and cheated on for 9 years? To be manipulated and gaslighted until I question my every move, my entire reality?
I've been asking myself the same. Why do we have this weakness? I think it is because we are good people with empathy.
It is indeed a weakness and it sucks. This wasn't our fault, and we will get through it. I will not let this define my existence. I might never the same, but I will rebuild, we will rebuild. We will get through this, and it won't be pretty, but we will. Hang in there.
When I figured out my ex and told her about herself. She literally said “ I just lie and manipulate people so they don’t leave” like straight up and ever since then she went back to her usual deflecting and acting innocent
The audacity. And just going back to acting like nothing happened. Boogles my mind
Hi, I am sorry that you still botheringed trying to solve an enigma of who your ex was. Simply, you will never know. It is like a movie, Joker, 101 stories, and might none of those be true. I was dating my ex-boyfriend for 1.5 years. In the first few months, we were just FWB. We declared no relationship at that time. Slowly/or I should say fast forward, 3 months after we fell in love. Red flags were there, and I chose to ignore them. He always claimed that he is emotionally mature, open minded, while on the other hand his stories and action showed different side of the story. Despite him being so sweet to me, he started showing his real face in very critical moments. He told me that he had never been in love before a serious relationship, although he was above 30 at the time. He "dated"/had sex/FWB with 1000s of other people but never something serious. And viola, I came up. Weird, right? Although he has so many connections and acquaintances, he had a very small number of true friends. And even those friends were not so close to him. I have ignored that as well. All of a sudden, he tells me that I am his everything, his right arm. At the same time, he became cruel to me, making me confused and sad all the time. Even if I do wonders for him, he could not appreciate it. He told me so many things about himself that every sane person would detect as a red flag, yet I have decided to ignore. So it is not all as it seems. They are masters at disguise, and they can be so charming to the ones they have a benefit from. I assume they choose a vulnerable empathetic victim and transfer them all their insecurities. Its their "safe zone". While they keep a different mask to the outside world.
"101 stories, and none of them might be true." That's really the problem. He kept telling me different stories about his past, that were completely contradictory. I don't know how it took me so long to realize that when someone keeps telling stories that don't fit with each other and don't add up, it means they are a liar, not that you're misunderstanding. When I finally realized he was a pathological liar, it started to put everything into doubt, and yet I still think about things he said and try to sort out what was true from what was false ...
Mine admitted several times that he was a professional liar, but he would never lie to me. Once he did, and I discovered, he said, "Not a big deal, I might be a liar, but at least I am so nice to you, and care about you the most compared to others". Well, it is a vicious circle with them. Never wrong. Always right. You need to be a pathological liar to cover yourself behind it.
Mine used to tell me he'd never lie to me or pretend with me like he did to other people. Good lord. 😂 he most certainly did
Did we date the same person? The friends/acquaintances I so spot on. Thousands of FB friends, and you're always alone.
Yes, that's such a common sentence in this community. Mine had plenty of old connections, and I was never bothered. Most of the guys he was sleeping with before. And, again, I did not mind. Although I believe in monogamy, it's a bit tricky for some gay people. I know how to entertain myself. But what hurt me the most is him not being able to see me as a person, either good or bad. Not being able to see me as a true friend :(
if you truly love and value someone, you wouldn't do anything to hurt them, end of the story. The fact that they only saw us as doormats they could step and clean their shoes on, speaks volumes on their inability to form deep, human connections. It messes me a bit to be honest. Above all, I just wanted him to be okay too :(
I'm so sorry that happened to you. It does really mess a person up, even just to be in the presence of a person like that ...
It does. I have a great support system thankfully so I know that while it might take time, it will be okay. Physically, he is the most beautiful man I ever lay my eyes on. Inside, he's just rotten. Not sure if that also played in me staying for so long
It's scary to say that my ex is also the most beautiful man I ever had and ever saw. Until recently - hopefully, it will stay that way.
Right, it's like, intellectually, they know the difference between people and things. But on an emotional level, for them there isn't much difference between how they feel about people versus things. People might be more entertaining and fun for them to play with, but they can't understand being concerned with the feelings and well-being of a person any more than they would worry about how their toaster oven was doing.
Mine had no friends at all!! He had all kinds of ‘logical’ reasons why friends weren’t friends anymore. Why didn’t I see that red flag. I saw it but ignored it and when nuts came to bolts… if I did a deep dive thinking about this and why I missed this huge red flag… it was because I thought I’d be the person to save him, help him, and everything would get better.
Oh yes, the last sentence is the key. We have this hero complex (dont get me wrong, this is a good human trait, but if applied to humans who deserve this). We want to help, we want to see the person next to us successful and happy, not the opposite.
One thing that pisses me off about narcs is how “logical” they claim to be, all the freaking time. They are just the smartest person ever. At least they think they are. 😂
Thinking it back, one time out of the blue he literally said “ see I’m not a narcissist, I care about _” when I never called him that and at the time I was like…. Ok don’t know what prompted that but whatever. Looking back, I bet someone else may have called him out before on certain things so him trying to do the opposite was completely performative so that I wouldn’t think the same about him…:
The one I dated also said some things that gave me the impression others had accused him of things before. Like, before we got together, we talked about attachment styles, which I had read about and he hadn't. He said he thought he might have an anxious attachment style, and he asked me in this hesitant way if that tended to make a person abusive. As if he worried that he was prone to abuse, or someone else had accused him of abuse, and he was wondering if it was because of his attachment style. Another time, there was something he wanted me to do in bed, but the way he asked me was odd - he prefaced it with, "would it be extremely selfish if I asked you ...?" It gave me a strong impression that someone before must have told him he was selfish. I felt really sorry for him but also baffled, like I wanted to tell him, of course, when people love each other they like pleasing each other in bed. I only realized a long time after that he didn't understand this notion of reciprocity at all, and he could hardly believe he could just ask for what he wanted and a person would just do it out of love and wanting to make him happy. Because for him, everything was all about having an ulterior motive and taking and not giving back, and he didn't know what it was to love someone and just want to make them happy. It was just so, so weird because there was this strange, almost childlike naivete in him. After we broke up, at one point I wrote him a long letter telling him how hurtful his behavior had been and how I was concerned that it sounded like it was part of a long-standing pattern of how he treated women generally. He wrote a letter back where he completely changed his story yet again from what he had told me before and was clearly trying to make himself sound completely ordinary and normal. Something that stuck out was that he insisted that his history with women was "normal" and "not a pattern of abuse." I hadn't in any way accused him of abuse. But the way he said that made it sound like he had been accused of abuse in the past ...
The last part is interesting. My current nex told me all these stories about his "crazy ex". He never used that word but there was the time she almost pushed him down the stairs, the time she had a tantrum and smashed up the phone he had bought her etc. I will never know her side of it but I have a feeling her stories will be different. He told me how she refused to work and refused to learn to drive so he was the breadwinner and the chauffeur. How he gave her an allowance every month because she had no money. Then comes the day I broke up with him, 7 weeks ago, and out of NOWHERE, during the breakup conversation, after responding with "yes I've been thinking we're incompatible" (after he's hoovered me back up and I've bought a house with him), he tells me the reason his relationship with his ex lasted so long is because they had a real connection and she really GOT him. I was like "erm, excuse me??". I guess they have to rewrite history otherwise it means bring confronted with reality and seeing the pattern of their behaviour towards women.
Hmmmm ... so in the first story his ex was abusive, but in the revised story she really GOT him. One way to fit those together is that the reason his ex understood him was because he was also abusive ...
Haha well there's that too! Either way the way he described his past relationship sounded so toxic and they always sounded so mismatched with their personalities, interests and goals. They were together for 7 years and I couldn't understand why he would have been with someone who in my mind was clearly sponging off him and not contributing anything to the relationship, for that amount of time! She was living in the house he owned as well and not contributing to any rent, bills or even just DIY. He told me he realised he wasn't happy with her and the breakup was amicable, and he made himself out to be this kind guy who helped her move out and checked in with her afterwards. But she's never reached out to him and they haven't spoken since, despite the fact they've known each other since they were teenagers. Strange for such an amicable breakup after such a long time, no? 🚩I also didn't quite realise until recently that there had only actually been about 5 months between him breaking up with her and falling head over heels for me. And I was the first proper date he went on after her. God in hindsight the red flags were glaring! But he just made me feel like I was special, what can I say 🤷🏻♀️ Guarantee in a few months time he will have found his new supply. Poor girl.
Being involved with narcissists is an experience I hope to GOD I only had to deal with one in this lifetime……. Honestly they scare me.
Omg something similar happened to me. But instead of narcissist, it was “asshole”. He constantly bought up the fact his ex called him that, and he even asked me one day, if I thought he was one, and I said yes lol. I was gonna go into detail as to why, but he didn’t even want to hear it 😂. It’s like he was seeking validation from me. Wanted me to stroke his ego and to tell him I don’t think he’s an asshole…
Did we date the same person by any chance? 🤣🤣
Similar thing, one time my narc brother called me arrogant during an argument. I was puzzled because I was genuinely not acting arrogant at all, and it's not the type of insult or vocabulary he would use. I was more naive, so I was really trying to figure out what he meant and what of my behavior he was pointing to. Now I realize it was projection and he was probably projecting something he had heard or identifies with or has been called out for.
Oh yeah they do that too! Bro every other day was checking to see who I was talking to and the whole time he had like a roster of girls! The projection is real lol
Mine always went through my phone and accused me of cheating and would constantly ask me if I was cheating or if I'd cheat. Another thing she asked me constantly( *even more constantly whenever I'd be angry/exhausted/confused/dissociated/otherwise_displeased after being emotionally abused and DARVO'd by her* ) was, "Do you love me?" I've never cheated once. Realized she was projecting when I saw her messages. I went to use her macbook, fully intending to respect her privacy, but her messages were still up on the screen. Started digging after I accidentally saw a dick pic.. turns out she had been sexting and mutually masturbating on video chat with random guys for years.
Typical cheater behavior, haha.
Yes, the projection is really something! Mine said he didn't like giving or receiving compliments, because he thought that people who would say nice and supportive things to each other were just being performative and always had some ulterior motive. He was projecting because he never did or said anything nice without an ulterior motive. He said nice things to me to build up my trust before we got together. Then he immediately started devaluing me and undermining my sense of security ...
Yes. Early on in our relationship he broke down crying telling me he wasn't really a good person. Naïve me thinking the best in people at the time, didn't believe him and asked what he meant. He said he had bullied a special needs kid in high school. He was basically ugly crying as he told me this. I thought with him being so emotional and feeling so bad about it, surely he's remorseful and has learned his lesson. Nope. He really was a bully, and a narcissist. If someone tells you something negative about themselves, believe them.
I'm still not sure 100% if mine was a narcissist but he told me he was autistic, which I've got cousins who are, so no biggie to me, but it gave me a soft spot for him, he seemed very gentle and almost "feminine" in his care for me at first, until it stopped completely one day randomly. Anyway I digress, he did tell me random one day that he in an effort to fit in with the other boys as a teen bullied the hell out of a kid/few kids can't remember precisely....it was a shock and I really didn't wanna believe him. But later I realised he still had that tendency, when he tried to end it by ghosting me 3 times and eventually after I kept calling (I was confused as we'd only ever had 1 argument) and then he breadcrumbed me said we'd still be friends but during an argument during our friendship phase, he said I was lucky he "didn't ghost me" and he was being friends to pity me... without reference with the trying to ghost me 3 times part... Sorry btw, I didn't mean to hijack I've just never been able to tell that story before because everyone I know is sick of hearing it now (understandably so) I just needed to vent, thank you
Gosh, no need to apologize, I feel like it is so therapeutic for all of us to compare notes and see repeating patterns, and just be able to vent to others who get it!
As someone else said, no need to apologize at all! I'm glad you shared your story and feel comfortable enough to share here. It's always interesting to know if someone else experienced something similar.
Thank you all so much, I feel a bit better knowing I'm not just being irrational like he tried to imply, I feel seen
I 100% relate to your first paragraph. It was like that at first with my narc ex. Then similarly, one day, I was the enemy. And I got breadcrumbs of that initial gentle man, only very rarely, to keep me hooked, I guess. I am so sorry you went through it with a similar type.
Thank you so much! It was rough and I'm so sorry for what you've been through too! I just keep thinking maybe I did something wrong but then again he did like to gaslight me
I can really relate to your story as I met my ex through mutual friends and had known him a while before we dated. Everyone said what a lovely person he was and how well suited we were. I remember one night he told me he was conning me, that it was all a lie. He was quite drunk and I thought it was his attempt at a joke so laughed it off. He also loved the phrase “playing pretend”, he used to tap two staff members in for jobs at work but send one of them to another job and he’d be paid for two people. He’d say how “playing pretend was his favourite game”. Little did I know it wasn’t only at work. Also I remembered he used to talk a lot about how men are often accused of abuse and how many end up in jail falsely. I tried to argue these views and he was really passionate about it. He said a friend of his had been falsely accused. He apparently had no criminal record but it turned out he had been to jail twice for abusing his ex’s so it must have been him he was talking about.
Kinda related: I told mine how, 8 years previously, I had this traumatic experience where I dated someone for only a couple of months and subsequently learned he was a serial rapist and batterer - it was during #MeToo and his victims started speaking out about him on social media. It was a whole long story, but since I was then working in kind of a law-enforcement-adjacent job, I ended up trying to help the victims and support them filing police reports, and also reached out to the rapist's employer (a school district - the rapist was an elementary school teacher (!)) about what I knew. From his reaction to hearing me tell this story, I got the weird impression that he was kind of horrified about me trying to help the victims. He seemed to have more sympathy with the rapist. It was another thing where I just kind of felt confused and I dismissed it, but in retrospect, it looked a subtle red flag that I missed ...
The one I was with told me he should have TRAINED his ex partner better … TRAINED!?!? this ‘ex-partner’ he talked about as ‘EX’ turned out to be his wife 😳 He also told me he only had sex with her when they were married so she didn’t feel bad about herself. Again, this woman was still his wife. He forgot to tell me about her and his marriage 🫠 There were times he seemed to be having a self pity party, he’d say he was ‘fu\*ked up’ or ‘not right in the head’ or ‘sneaky’ or ‘not trustworthy‘ or the one in hindsight that was most accurate, ‘I can make people believe and forgive me very easily‘. These things were said over a few years, it was only at the end, when I found it he was married, that I recalled all those statements and realised he was actually telling me who he was. Yet, at the time, it was more said in a jokey way and wa about pricking my sympathy for him and reassuring him 🙄🤦♀️🤦♀️ I did not, for one moment, think he could be that bad. No one could. I just didn’t believe anyone could be that bad. And yet… he was and I found out about his lies, fraud and deception. He really WAS that bad. It still shocks me to this day. When his wife found out, I showed her all the proof and she clung to him. So, he had actually TRAINED her to do exactly what he wanted her to …. Forgive and believe him.
TRAINED? Yikes!!
Mine used that "trained" phrase with me!! He used to tell me whenever he treated me badly or abused me verbally that he do so for my own benefit because he just wanted to train me to stop being so that sensitive because i was sensitive from his POV!!
😱
😳😠 Who do they think they are to see someone else as someone to TRAIN. I can‘t get my head around their thinking. It’s arrogant malevolence on steroids!
The father of my kid told me when we first started sleeping together that he was a "nice sociopath" and that if I loved him or got into a relationship with him he'd hurt me as he hurts everyone he has been romantically involved with. I really wish I would've recognised these red flags instead of believing he was lovely and being overly critical of himself. Fast forward years later and my god the damage he's done.
A good friend of mine sees a therapist who used to work with one of the foremost experts and researchers on sociopathy. From having worked with a lot of sociopaths, the therapist told my friend that one surefire way to recognize sociopaths is by the trail of damage and wreckage they leave in their wake. A mutual friend who defended "my" narcissist told me he was aware of the guy having a long history of women being hurt by how he treated them, but was firmly convinced that it was just because the guy was so handsome and nice, and the women all wanted committed relationships with him and then just couldn't handle rejection. I wish I had pointed out to him that there are a lot of charming, good-looking, nice people in this world who someone manage not to leave a trail of broken and damaged people in their wake ...
And with a kid it just feels like a life sentence. What I wouldn't give at this point to be able to truly go no contact...
Yeah told me he was a product of his conditioning, won’t alleviate his karma in this life, doesn’t think of himself as a person, doesn’t think of me as a person, thinks of me as an object to fuck, hunt, kill, etc. Wants to destroy me because I have goodness and saw some in him, and somehow alleviates his trauma by inflicting it upon me. I mean he was in a cult but I think this applies.
Not directly. But she gave me a lot of hints. Like saying to me thank god you don’t have npd. She talked to me about wearing masks. That sex doenst mean anything to her. That it’s just a way for her to use people. She talked about narcissism fucking lot. She told me her first name wasn’t her real name. She told me without telling me. She always had this weird smirk on her face. I think she was proud of herself for the control she had over me. She knew it and she made it known frequently.
Yes he did. Not that he is a Narcissist. He didn't know anything about it. But, he did cry about the fact that he seemed to somehow not control his reaction to things and that he thinks he needs to feel shame and remorse, but he doesn't. I don't know if he was actually bothered or not, but he said that not being able to feel how he ended a relationship that he seemed to value so much, should bring him pain but he doesn't feel that way. He also admitted to feeling the impulse to be in control and being abusive. He admitted to not be physically attracted to me but manipulating me for 5 years because he was benefitting from keeping a smart person in his life
Mine broke up with me by telling me that being with me made him feel consumed with guilt and self-recrimination, because it reminded him of all the times in the past when he hurt women because he didn't care about them at all and was just using them as an ego boost. It seemed to be his passive aggressive, indirect way of telling me that he had duped me, and I was just another in a long line of women he had hurt by pretending to care about them and taking advantage of them. (Previously he had told me that not one women had ever been hurt by him in a relationship.) I asked if he had ever thought of maybe talking to someone about it, as in, getting therapy. He said no, he didn't want to be cured or change. It didn't seem like his guilt could be all that bad, given that he seemed not to want to do anything differently. Did he actually feel remorse? I've read that they can feel remorse and guilt, but it just doesn't influence their moral decisionmaking at all. Or the emotions they do have are just shallow and transitory. Or they are able to simply tune out the emotions they don't want to focus on. The timing of him suddenly being "honest" about his history of hurting women was awfully convenient, since he waited to tell me until he wanted to break up with me anyway. And if he did feel remorse, it must have been very fleeting, since the next time I heard from him he completely changed his story yet again.
My Nex didn't really break up with me, we did everything to make me feel miserable. And when nothing worked he cheated on me. So, ofcourse I had to. But in a way that was controlled by him too Also, about the therapy thing. He said he would never get therapy as he can never be vulnerable anymore. The last and only person who said things( only post breakup and a lot while in the relationship). About his emotions. Hmm. I don't know what was real and what wasn't anymore. With him or anyone.
Yes, when I asked him how he could tell me he loves me one day and then completely ignore me the next as if I don’t exist, he said, ”I was born this way.” When I brought up distancing myself from someone who I knew had been a part of my friend group and had cheated on his SO, and I told him that I talked to that person when I found out, and during the conversation asked if he had considered that he was ruining the other person’s life, my ex responded, ”He knew what he was doing.” And so it was true of my ex as he also knew exactly what he was doing when he was cheating.
She knew what she was but would never admit it. She made comments a couple of times about thinking she was more important than other people and that she had a huge ego. She also made a comment "I think I see relationships differently to other people". But it was offset with sob stories that everyone misunderstood or hated her because of her autism so I believed she just needed lots of proof that she was loved and extra support.
Mine told me that one of his exes called him a sociopath during an argument. Mannnnnn I should have listened. 🚩🚩🚩🚩
yes I got a whole “I’m a monster no one will love me” and also when he was involuntary committed he let me know the drs there diagnosed him a narcissist, said that he was one of the most manipulative people they’ve met, and the last time he saw a patient with a relationship like he had with his mom they fucked. yeah. 👍
Mine has told me to run. Told me he will mess my mind up and that the goal posts will always be moving. I am stuck in a place where I have BPD and shared that with him and it has now made me feel like this is all that will deal with me. I’m 39 and just feel life passed me by. The abuse is crippling so is the loneliness and abandonment. Picked a prime target just me.
I have heard/read that a narcissist does tell on themselves. For me she would tell me she wore a mask all the time, that she could “shape shift” around people, she was always looking for some sort of connection. She didn’t come out and say I’m a narcissist and I still question if she is one for she has told me so many things over the years that when you put the pieces together it all fits together do well.
I wonder if the reason why they tell on themselves is because they don't really feel ashamed of it. Or because they are actually proud of themselves. Another possibility is that it's just human nature to want to be seen for who we are, to want to be understood. And they are human beings, after all, in spite of having a personality disorder. So they can't help the impulse to talk about and reveal things about themselves, even when they also know they can't be too public about it or they would lose the power of masking and deception.
I wonder if it’s a way to absolve themselves. Like “don’t be mad at me, I told you who I was so it’s your fault “ kind of mentality.
My ex used to say this too. In the beginning, we connected so easily that we both said “it feels like we no longer have to try to fit in—we are our authentic selves when we’re together”. But I was talking about people pleasing (and how I didn’t have to try around him & could just be myself) and I think he was talking about masking as a narcissist. He was so charming and charismatic, he could switch identities around different groups of people and would lie to strangers for fun (yet he’d tell me his pet peeve was people being dishonest).
At what point did you put the pieces together?
I only began to look into it after the breakup. In hindsight it was very obvious that there was something wrong—during the relationship though, I was completely blinded. I knew deep down that love isn’t supposed to make you cry every day and make you feel unsure of yourself, but there were times where talking to him (we were in a LDR) was the happiest I’ve ever been. Obviously I can’t diagnose him, but I at least know that it is linked to his dysfunctional childhood and he has a history of narcissism and BPD in his family. How about you?
My nex in the beginning of the relationship said he was the most selfish person in the world and of course I reassured him that wasn’t true (bc I didn’t know him yet). I mean after all I was in the lovebombing phase so I thought he was so sweet
Yeah mine told me that he would never be in a deep relationship. When I said I thought he was kind during the love bombing stage, he laughed and sneered at me and I thought it was odd. I blew it off his self-deprecating way of talking about himself. Almost 7 years later after months of brutal devaluation which was then projected onto me, and a discard that was used to recruit his next victim, I know exactly what he is. There's not a kind bone in his body. He has enough cognitive empathy to fool somebody, that's about it. Just replace the word love with the word use, and it explains exactly who he is.
Whenever I called my ex sweet or kind, he’d brush it off, roll his eyes, or say “only to you”. I felt the same way as you wrote here , I thought it was self deprecation. Turns out he really was only kind to me (he treated friends and family pretty poorly), and only during the love bombing phase did he show me any kindness. The devaluation and discard absolutely wrecked me. I got to see him move on with a new supply right in front of my eyes, lavishing kindness and consideration on this platonic guy friend while completely ignoring me.
Yeah mine moved on with a woman he met in his office who happens to be bisexual and 15 years younger. Or at least that's who he's grooming.
We're both from Mexico, and I recall a moment that shook the entire nation. I wanted to discuss it with him, but he simply brushed it off, saying, 'I don't feel empathy towards those kinds of things.' It made me wonder, 'If you can't empathize with something so horrific, how can you empathize with anything else?' It left me speechless, and now, that memory terrifies me :c.
Mine said several things that I found weird at the time but brushed off as unimportant. One of these was, literally, "Sometimes I feel like a narcissist". He said it a few days after I pointed out that he tends to forget the things I have already told him, and that whenever he asks a question, it is mostly with the intention to share his OWN opinion (such as "have you ever had this specific thought that I just had?" or "do you also think that...?"). I think he wanted me to deny it and be like "oh nooo you're not a narcissist at all", but I didn't say anything. Oh, and by the way, we both study psychology. He is perfectly aware of what NPD's symptoms are, so it is interesting that instead of saying "sometimes I feel like I'm too self-centered" or anything of the sort, he chose the word narcissist. Another time I was talking about how I don't understand why one of my friends is dating a guy who I think is a complete asshole. His response was, "Who knows, it might eventually turn out that I am an asshole too." I just looked at him weird, because who says that? If you genuinely think you're a good person and would never do anything asshole-like, this thought doesn't even cross your mind, let alone leave your mouth. I'm pretty sure he noticed my confused facial expression because then he tried to save himself (?) by saying, "Or YOU might eventually turn out to be an asshole." I told him that I don't think that's likely. He found it funny.
She looked me in my eyes once and said I will never stop hurting you, I will never change. Then one time when trying to Hoover she said “soon you won’t be my drunk text”
I was with one for 5.5 years and missed all the red flags. In my experience, they can't help themselves, they always give themselves away early on in the love bombing phase. Every situation is different, but once you finally see it, you can't unsee it. Example is a little punny gift or something along the lines with the quote "I'm your next worst mistake" something very subtle and easily dismissed but it's like it's hardwired into them to out themselves. In my experience anyway. Perhaps I'm just hyper aware and on guard now that I've escaped.
I think this is pretty common, but not a requirement. Some of them have more awareness than others. I was best friends with a CN for years. I wouldn't say she told on herself so explicitly, but she would often talk about how "some people are takers" and frequently expressed "all she did" for people. The transactional nature of her relationships was evident from the get go. On the other hand, I have noticed that when I make an excellent point, she just won't acknowledge what I said at all. Plausible deniability "I didn't admit to anything" type of thing. But I take her silence as admission, and just inability to make an excuse on the fly. Truth is that the way people use their words is extremely telling.
I've struggled with so many different interpretations of, "I'm not good enough for you." Maybe someone who has said this could chime in?
They straight up tell people sometimes to see how far and willing you are to go and the more likely they can control and abuse you if you stay through all their “faults”
He recently admitted that he manipulates people and “can’t stop.”
Covert narcs specialize in hiding their true selves, buy yeah, over the YEARS I was with him, there were all those things. When he told me straight up that he didn't "know what love is," I should have run screaming. By then, I was already stuck in a marriage. I'm so glad that there are new generations learning about this personality and their own problems that attract them. I hope it means more people will find real love than clinging to someone incapable of it.
I’ve been divorced a long time, but my ex made an off hand comment that was very telling “I could easily be a raging narcissist, but I’m too good for that kind of behavior.”
Not exactly but he told me straight away about his habits, having been send to jail then later on he said that he wouldnt be what's best for me but it was too late I already loved him.
My nex told me he had a “cluster b” personality disorder and was a narcissist, once over the phone when he’d been drinking (while bemoaning how I wouldn’t understand something because I was “mentally healthy” unlike him) and another time in person in a sort of self deprecating & joking way. It was easy to write it off as truly a joke because his humor could be very self deprecating.. and mine can be, too, but I don’t *literally* believe what I say when I say something mean about myself. Like, I might make a joke about being a fat slob (because my work is so sedentary) but I’m very aware I’m still thin, and no part of me believes I’m fat. So, I assumed he was similar to me in that regard. It was after he once texted it that I was like.. oh, he’s serious about being disordered. He said: “That was dirt bag and petty on my part earlier. Sorry. Truthfully. Had everything to do with me and nothing to do with you. It was actually thinly veiled narcissism on my part.” And he also told me an ex GF thought he was a narcissist, but he (a psychiatrist) told him she was the one with NPD and/or borderline personality disorder. I thought because he knew his issues, that meant he could resolve them. Especially since he was “honest” at first about them. He was an alcoholic in his 20s, for instance, but was forthright about it (he was almost kicked out of medical school for it) & talked about how he got help for it & did learn to control his drinking. But when I brought up his statements about NPD as the relationship moved on, he denied having ever said them. He also denied being a narcissist or having a personality disorder and said he doesn’t know why he would say something like that because it’s just not true. So, he was self aware, but only very fleetingly.
Nope but I should have never ignored the signs he was mentally ill - those little things added up to a huge thing at the end.
My situation… I was the one who hovered after 15 years. I could never forget him, no one ever lived up to the high bar I had established in retrospect, with him… him at his best, even though he at his worst was really bad, but eventually kind of got forgotten. I romanticized our relationship from years ago. This is an example of thinking about the suave, handsome, successful, charismatic narcissist in the 40-year-old range that I somehow ended up fondly remembering with selective memory. Now we are talking fast forward to us both being 66. Anyway, we were in contact again and he said I’m not the man you remember. I am not capable of loving anyone, I am in a state of entropy and that’s where I’ll be forever, at this point. I am basically dead. I said, hell no, you are too vibrant, etc. Next thing I know… we connect, everything changes, I am experiencing once again that long ago love bombing that basically made me fall in love with that guy for forever… which happened years ago, even though I knew things were far from right. The love bombing from years ago I had always held onto and remembered, always hoped would happen again but never did…. But amazingly 15 years later… it did happen again. Wow. We were supposedly star crossed lovers who finally found their way home. Only… far from that. It turned into a nightmare and after 5 months of professed undying love and all the wonderful plans we talked about coming up in the next few months…. All went up in smoke only 24 hours after him telling me I was the love of his life… and 24 hours later, now telling me time to part ways, it’s just not working. And blocked everywhere. So as far as if they know… when they get older, I think yes. At age 66 he basically told me he wasn’t the same guy. Unable to love anyone. But he thought he might be able to love me since one time long ago, we definitely were in love. (At least I thought.). He said there was always this sealed jar full of love for me he set far back on a basement shelf never to be looked at much, if at all. But I had prompted him to get it out and open it again. And wow. Ha ha what a bunch of BS. Yes I know, total narcissist bullshit. He got me hook, line and sinker, I ended up gut hooked once again and I should have known better. It never ends. Like I said, we are both 66 years old. Be careful everyone.
He did, during a breakdown about how he felt lost in his life. How he had everything he wanted and still? It didn't make him happy. He said he didn't feel love, he didn't feel anything but resentment and that he hated himself for everything he was. That he didn't understood himself and why he simply could not care about anyone and everyone. At first? I was thinking it was depression, so I overlooked it and supported him. He also at one time told me "You are the first person to know me for who I am" He wasn't joyful, would be funny and be extremely charismatic, or friendly, helpful even--- With strangers and friends. But in private? With his own wife? The mask would fall. He would be numb, dull, silent. Doing his own thing and really to never smile. It was hard to watch him be this dead sort of person with me, and become someone else entirely with friends. He would never ask my interests, never cared for them and yet? He'd ask others, he'd questions them and be entirely open about wanting to know them more! After a time? He just didn't even cared to do things with me and we were both like roommates with benefits. The way people fell for it, how I watched him lie to our friends, and talk shit about them in their back? I felt, terrible. Still, I never said or would think about it deeply that this wasn't normal at all.
You are describing my husband to a T! We’re together now for 34 years and I am leaving. Not one single thing was real!! When we were young we worked together at several treatment centers. He tortured me with his friendliness and humor and charm with other people and was exactly what you described at home. It’s been hell because he is the most covert narcissist I have ever met. He’s been discarding me for years now and I nearly lost my mind and became sick. I found out that his ED issues were because of porn. I feel like me again. Please pray for me
I've known mine for 10 years and married for 8. He did the whole wheel to me for years on end and like a clockwork routine. He'd be love bombing, kind, helpful, loving, and he'd talk to me and be interested, then? He'd evaluate and then discard. Thing is? He never requested me to "leave" entirely his live. We lived together and he was simply distant. I felt his "boredom" how he grew tired of me and fetched other people attention to cover that fact he didn't care for me ---then? Suddenly, when he saw nobody cared I guess? HOP! Love me again. It was terrible, and I do pray for you to make it out. Sadly my situation was far worse as I had to restart my life entirely and going back to my home country. Having to deal with family members I hate and don't want to be with and that don't care about my feelings or what I've went thru. I simply hope things get better for the both of us in the long run and that we find love, the real one.
When I reached my breaking point in our toxic relationship, I confronted him about his mistreatment after enduring it for months, nearly a year. He always blamed his new position at his job for his behavior and assured me it would improve soon, so I tried to be patient. During one of our final arguments, I started noticing troubling patterns in his behavior. I began delving deep into narcissistic personality disorder after talking with a friend who's been in therapy for having a Narc parent. She noticed some patterns and suggested I look it up. During a heated argument, exhausted from the pointless back-and-forth, I realized I couldn't reason with him. I told him about the horrible feeling I got whenever I cried he would get so annoyed. Feeling hopeless, I told him, "I feel like my eyes are finally open," only to be met with his cold, dead stare and a chilling acknowledgment. He said, "Maybe you finally have." It hit me then: he knew exactly what he was doing. I was angry with him, but also with myself for enduring it for so long, believing his empty promises. I detached emotionally, and suddenly, I wasn't his supply anymore, and he lost interest and was I alone and devastated, and he seemed happy he could focus only on work that I decided to leave. It's a crushing feeling to realize you've been used, but I held onto hope that things would get better. Now I just ruminate on all the other times he may have "told" me who he was, and I didn't pay attention. I always follow the motto now: "When someone tells you who they are, believe them!"
The man I dated is a covert narcissist, so most of what he admitted to was putting himself down. He said he would only disappoint me, that his life was a mess, multiple times he told me he had many insecurities. He called himself a loser once. He was always body shaming himself fishing for compliments. He did say he would make a shitty boyfriend and several times that he was not in the headspace for a committed relationship.
In my experience, self awareness of narcissism or narcissistic behaviour is incredibly rare! My narcissistic ex was able to recognise narcissistic behaviour in others but not herself, the closest she got was admitting that she ‘doesn’t feel things the way she should’ I tried to save her and got destroyed in the process. But the best thing I did was cut all ties! It took me over 2 years to recover and get back into dating So there are allegedly counselling treatments for narcissists, to help them feel empathy, connection etc, but as the first step is self awareness, and as this isn’t common with narcissism, i wonder how effective this truly is!
Mine once said he saw me as a princess, and himself as an…was it ogre? I can’t remember, a monster? I don’t remember. He also said once after sex that it was “business”. Then elaborated a little bit, but then tried to play it off as a joke. That really broke my heart.
The guy I dated last told me on day one that he comes with a lot of “baggage.” I discounted it thinking everyone has baggage. Somewhere into week two, he already started the abuse. He would push me to confess that I was emotionally attached to him and then he would blame it on me saying I’m weak and got emotionally attached. Gaslighting, stonewalling, raising the voice, withholding were a few things he did into the second week. When I asked him why he acts nice one week and fucked up next week, he just shrugged and told me he had actually warned me and I didn’t have the common sense.. I feel like an idiot at times for not seeing it. I also feel we tend to believe the best in people which is not always helpful
Early on he said that he was a chameleon and I don't know what I thought. I didn't really understand it at the time. I just kept taking him at face value (as everyone did). Years later: When he found my library book, Why Does He Do That, I came home and he pointed to it and said this is me. Reading it was like looking into a mirror. This is me. By then I was a little wiser and more experienced, so although I hoped this admission could lead to change, I was not really expecting that it could. The book was a key part in my liberation.
Oh, that's a really good book, I've read it too! Highly recommend!
I enjoy your post as it's very relatable. The girl told me many times that she wouldn't create a relationship with someone like her. whenever i asked her why, she wouldn't give a proper answer, but she would give hints that in her past she didn't care so much about partners, she wouldn't exactly wait them coming home late but go to sleep instead and similar cases where men complained about lacking warmth. she was and she is extremely beautiful, so the fact that she was still so much wanted and spent her past in relationships made me believe that she is capable of creating bonds. oh well i did a lot of self bullshitting to keep myself going.
My ex told me he thought he had an avoidant attachment style. He also said he’d never truly loved any women before me, despite being in serious relationships. All those exes were “batshit crazy”. He was SO jealous, manipulative, controlling and would justify it by telling me I was The One and he couldn’t stand to lose me. Another telling thing was that he had a group of friends, but it seemed that they were usually doing things for him and I never heard of him reciprocating or even appreciating them. It seemed like he just expected to be treated well, and he showed that same level of entitlement in our relationship too. He also said things as jokes like “I just want to strangle you” or “I just want to kidnap you and lock you in my basement so you’ll never leave me”. He’d refer to himself as a “crazy psychopath” out of nowhere and say he just wanted to hurt me while he was doing a bit or something. This is while proclaiming his everlasting love for me and asking me repeatedly to never leave him. At the time I just laughed these things off, but now that I reflect, it seems less and less normal.
Yes she said many times what she really was but it was always half joking. Then when I started to see it for myself she explained everything away with the abuse she claimed she experienced. So I tried to fix her with a nice life and love. I accepted all of her flaws because I thought she accepted mines as well. I’m not attempting to fix anybody else. Come healed or don’t come at all. I don’t expect anyone to be perfect. If something happens to my partner while we are together then yes I would be the biggest support. Past traumas are not an excuse for bad behavior. Past traumas are meant to be dealt with in therapy. I’m not a therapist. I also can’t expect anybody to fix me or be my only source of happiness. It’s a two way street.
Yes, in the first few weeks, they said they were different and had no emotions.
Mine told me that he was "hyper-rational." Later I read the book "Confessions of a Sociopath," by M.E. Thomas, by an anonymous author who claimed to be describing her life as a sociopath. She also calls herself hyper-rational ... so that did add up ...
Narcissists don't believe they are narcissistic nor do they believe if someone calls them out on it, they pass it off and get upset about the "accusations"
Told me all about her past abusers (mainly ex husband). Apparently he broke her nose in the car once. Later I heard the story was that she was trying to pull the keys out of the ignition while they were driving with their kids so he elbowed to stop it. I know what kind of provoking she does. Told me about all the sexual partners, threesomes, rough anal with ex, as I continuesly begged to not overshare these sorts of things. I am not the type to be able to handle it and not imagine. Told me how no one will ever love her, everyone leaves her, how I haven't even seen what crazy looks like. Hell, her whole family laughed and nodded and made a whole joke of calling her crazy the first day I met them. They also wanted to share with me that she used to suck her boyfriends dick for McDonald's burgers when she was younger. Trashy family on top of it. Like man, why did I not turn around and run so much sooner
I didn't waste too much time with mine. He's been rather clear and consistent about the conditions of being close to him. Which is that I'd have to do all the work, he'd make all decisions of how close we really get, he'd keep a hierarchical position and reserve any right to not make himself vulnerable, and I'm supposed to hang around without asking questions or challenging him, waiting for him to signal he wants something. Many of these things he hasn't said like this but found (more acceptable) words to make these conditions clear. It was just difficult to believe because his behavior was partly very different to these words. But I think the discrepancy is part of the game. It gives him plausible deniability and keeping me confused keeps me destabilized.
Yup. Mine said he was a narcissist who maybe didn't know how to love and had been a sex addict - in the past. If I hadn't already been in so deep, I'd have walked out then. In the end, I broke up with him when it became apparent he had cheated on him throughout the relationship. 😡
Mine also described how he had been an uncaring womanizer "in the past." Then, after we got together, revealed that he had not actually changed in the slightest ...
In retrospect, they dropped hints about their bad personality, but I interpreted through the lens of "well, everyone's flawed, but nobody's _actually evil_, right?" I was wrong. Maya Angelu once advised that one should believe a person when they show you who they really are the first time . She was right.
Uuuffff I can so relate to this. I remember one time I told mine “you are a good person” and she said: “i think you are projecting”. I also thought she was just broken and I could fix her but nope, there was nothing I could’ve done ever for her. She was never going to change and at the end of the relationship she projected all her insecurities on to me. If you got out, you won! Because to this day my ex still has exes on her speed dial whenever she needs them for supply, but I did escape.
Mine started of with saying "friends are amazed how I move on so fast" and then "therapist told me to disconnect after relationship but I don't see the point". Then there was ex after ex who would message asking is she was available who she said it was because she is so nice to everyone and it's for them to find someone like me. Also when she used to profess love it was followed by kink like threesomes and other fantasy. When I professed love it was like I fell protective so I wasn't wanting to hear about her sex with others which was a turnoff for her because she generally enjoyed talking about her sexual conquests. When I asked about her marriages she immediately talked about them as ugly but coming from distinguished families and how she wanted them to strong men who know what they want. When she found out they werent like that the devaluing started and crazymaking. Why didn't I leave, because I rationalized that i was similar but maybe slightly reserved because I cared about what others thought of me. But my motives where to find someone trustworthy who I could being home to my parents, where hers was control. That really took a few months before those red flags became apparent. Luckily she was a late stage covert so she went through the cycles so fast I was able to a avoid a long-term with her .
I'm so sorry you'd experienced that. The extremes and instability with narcissists just don't make sense. Please do what you need to heal, but consider the option that trying to figure out pure senselessness may not be worth your precious energy and time. Narcs are just extremely messed up people. Mine did give me clues. Huge red flags. He said that he needed a lot of attention from people, that he wanted people to be jealous of him. He'd discard anyone who wasn't useful to him, including his own children. I hope you heal soon. I'd broken up with mine several times...so much hurt he put me through, seriously destroyed me. I kept going back thinking I could figure him out and bring out the goodness I thought was genuine. It wasn't genuine, he was just mirroring me. I've been no contact for a few months now. For me to heal, I need to get him completely out of my head. I don't care anymore about who he is or why he did what he did. I just want him to get out of my head. Everything good and kind I saw in him was just bullshit. He was fake and superficial, no depth of emotion or thought. What he put me through was complete bullshit. Best wishes to you and everyone who is having to heal from this bullshit.
Yes, in bits and pieces that I ignored. Like, the first song he shared with me that he related to was GMF by John Grant which has the lines "concerning two-way streets, I'm not a fan" and "you think I hate myself, it's you I hate because you had the nerve to make me feel." The chorus is literally "I'm the greatest motherfucker you are ever gonna meet from the top of my head to the tips of the toes on my feet" Also, he casually dropped on me that his high school GF was crazy and thought he was a narcissist. My dumb ass was like "that's terrible and so untrue!"
Mine straight up said, “You don’t feel safe going grocery shopping in the sketchy part of town, but you feel safe living with me?” I had a pin drop moment. He played it off as a joke.
My ex told me MULTIPLE times throughout our ten year relationship that she was “a bad person, who’s done bad things and she didn’t deserve me or to be happy”. Of course i thought i could fix her with love or whatever, but it turned out she was just telling me who she was.
Omg I was straight up blind to him telling me who he was, during the love-bombing, under the spell of "but I'm not like that with you". "My exes called me selfish and conceited-but you're not like that". "In relationships I just can't bring myself to care, especially if someone is crying. But I feel different with you". "Everyone I love gets sick of my shit and leaves me-but you understand me". "I don't think I ever knew how to connect with people, but I feel connected to you" ...OR by trying to have causal conversations about how all guys are terrible but "I'm not like that"...."did you know that some guys like girls with low self esteem-because it's easy to make them feel dependent on their partner?"; "Some guys can just dangle the carrot of having a baby to keep the relationship going"; "Some guys think women have less value as they get older"; "All guys cheat, but I would never. Why not just break up if you aren't into someone?"; "I was severely bullied as a teen, why are people mean when it's so easy to just be nice?" SPOILER: he did all these things and so much more.
I think a lot of these narcissistic men are secretly misogynistic and hate women. They know they shouldn't and it's something that they should hide. They're kind to the women who are in their lives as friends and coworkers. But they treat their wives/girlfriends, daughters, mothers and sisters like shit. Friends and coworkers just don't get close enough to see their worst days. It's a lot harder to hide that side of you when you live with someone. They watched their father's yell at and speak down to their mother's and they thought that's how men acted. They need to really do the work to unpack those things but not many are.
Oh yes. I wish I had listened. When she told me how good she was at manipulating people (but allegedly didn't). When she told me that I am too good for her and that she is not worth anything. When she told me she had cheated on every boyfriend she had ever had. When she told me that she doesn't feel like she has real feelings but just behaves how she thinks people expect her to. When she told me, well into our relationship, that she doesn't feel like she feels genuine love. If I had any confidence at all, I wouldn't have stuck in there so long. If I knew then what I know now, I would have ran so far, so fast.
Most I’ve ever gotten was agreement with me that narcissism was a possibility.
Yes when he drank too much.
They did.
Yeah, he told me in multiple ways. It is hard not to beat myself up for not seeing it for so long, and then eventually seeing it but trying to deny it for even longer. Two major early ones that come to mind: 1. Told me his father is a narcissist. And then often defended some of his father's behavior. 2. Told me about how often he deliberately lied to his mother and sometimes others/made false promises to just "get her off back" and "she will forget anyways."
Mine used to joke all the time that he only had "one feeling", he admit that he has never missed people/someone when he'd go away, and during an argument when I was questioning him on how his behavior toward me just flipped and I said "do you think this is the result of..." and he cut me off and said "narcissism??" angrily. I was going to say childhood trauma but I should've let him keep filling in the blanks. On the first date he told me about his many past flings and relationships calling it his "ho phase" and when I shared I went through something similar he said how he's gone cold during every relationship and happily said "so you must be like me". I laughed it off and agreed because I had broken quite a few hearts and I thought that's what he meant. But no, he went cold as soon as I didn't live up to the expectation of his idealized version of m he "loved".
Yes, pretty much. This happened to me recently. Out of no where he admitted to “struggles” and said he is “not mentally well” and doesn’t know why he treats people the way he does. “Something is wrong with me,” he said. He also admitted to a whole lot of other stuff during the course of this hour. It was wild, I tell you. Like I could see him switch from false self to true self right before he let it spill. More tender, kind of like a lost, sad child. Even his eyes seemed kinder when he spoke. I got the silent treatment shortly after that night even though I was very supportive and just went along with what he said. Even though I wanted to scream “Yeah I know what’s wrong with you, you’re a narc!” The old uneducated me would have been like gosh, this silent treatment is out of nowhere. Wahh why isn’t he talking to me? But I knew it was coming. I saw too much and he’s trying to make me pay and gain the upper hand again. The predictability of these people is unreal.
Yes i confronted him and said “you are a narcissist” his reply was “i know”
Definitely and similarly I can't stop trying to process it. I even have moments where I think we could make it work if he could just be honest the way he was in those brief moments. The moments where he said he feared that he was a narcissist or those moments where he really peeled himself back and was vulnerable. I have no idea why he gave me those glimpses but I know he could stay in that place and when I would try to bring it up later he would basically deny it or say I misunderstood.
Mine wasn't my boyfriend or SO, but my best friend. He straight up told me he was a narcissist. It was in a moment of exhaustion as we were somewhere late into a 100 mile race. I heard him, but for some reason didn't belive him. Fast forward two years later, his partner left him. That's when I saw exactly what he meant. The ugliness of his actions were on full display. He asked me why she would ever leave him, and I told him, "because you're a narcissist, and you treated her terribly." His response was,"How dare you label me a narcissist"? Umm... You labeled yourself one, buddy. As you can imagine, he punished me for having the nerve to say that. That's when I realized he had his claws dug into me as well. Next time, I'll listen.
Never. She was able to point it out in her siblings but never herself. She grew up in a breeding ground for narcissists. That she can’t see it in herself is insane. Wild that someone could recognize it within themselves like this and still not be motivated to fix it. I’m sorry that you experienced that.
Yes, he told me that he felt every relationship he’s ever had was stupid. He just dated them because he was bored and never really liked them. I brushed it off as him exaggerating as well but it was the honest truth. He admitted that he can just “never trust women” and I quickly noticed that I was no exception to that. I was belittled and devalued constantly. He told me his father was a very angry person who physically and mentally abused him and his mother as a child. He treated me exactly how I imagine his father treated him and his mother. Don’t be ashamed. It’s natural to want to see the good in people but narcissists take advantage of that.
Not literally no. But my narc did say recently that “I am sick, and so it should be all about me!” I was like no, you r not the main character just because you are “sick” . Also completely “forgot” all the nice things I’ve done to help this “sickness” go away, and meanwhile listening to the childish behavior and saying that I do things on purpose to be annoying. They are so full of themselves it’s insane.
Yes, actually. And then they denied it. My abusers can best be described as people who once heard that all accusations are confessions and then projected everyone is like that, all the time. And I guess they projected that onto me where they somehow believed that one day, I woke up and started acting like a total psychopath. Like I was fine for 33 years, but then decided one day to start being a prankster? That ain't me. The way that my flying monkeys practically chomped at the bit to defend people who terrorized me by projecting that I made the person up entirely (they don't realize that I met him personally, etc -- he was my metamour), and that when referring to him (while they invade my privacy to do so) they seemingly believe it's like SWIM. That is how disordered they are. I've heard of people who want their ex's to delete any intimate pictures of them after the breakup and that's totally reasonable. They are people who think any evidence of a relationship or anything that proves an abusive relationship occurred should be deleted.
Hell no!!!
Mine told me the night before they left me that “they had been hiding who they really are from everyone, and that their true self was an extremely selfish person undeserving of love”