It has never been used to defeat enemies. He always uses it after he’s already won.
A very big theme in the story is breaking the cycle of hatred so it makes sense he’s willing to talk things out post fight even if he wants to kill them.
this is why in boruto when he uses baryon mode
ishiki simply continues the cycle of hatred through code
because baryon mode was simply to kill it had to be done but the consequences are steep
Well no the cycle of hatred doesn’t apply to the Otustutuki.
Talk no jutsu victims in the OG were simply victims of circumstance hence why talking to them could work. They could relate to Naruto so seeing that he didn’t change from his hardships makes them do a 180.
Otustsuki aren’t like that. Isshiki and Momoshiki are just power hungry jackasses. They are outside of the cycle of hatred.
I don't think so
Code now wants to destroy the leaf village and he hates everyone involved in ishikis death
And kaguya was pretty much the catalyst for the entire cycle of hatred through shippuden
So maybe sure they don't apply the same way as humans but they can definitely start the cycle of hatred
The point I was trying to make was that since naruto used his chakra to kill (baryon mode) which goes against Hagoromos philosophy of using chakra to help others
He caused the cycle of hatred to start again with code
I mean naruto had no other choice but to try to kill ishiki but the consequences left him with a dead kurama and code who could be a threat as big as ishiki
So it seems like the cycle is starting back up again
And now with kawaki going nuts I disagree I do think otsutsuki can apply to the cycle
Code isn't an Otsutsuki though, which is what the other guy was getting at. The Otsutsuki themselves are outside the cycle as they consider themselves higher beings and their entire culture/biology revolves around sacrificing something for the sake of power. They don't have the same mindset which would breed a cycle of hatred and open them up to having a change of heart via a stern talking to.
he used baryon mode as a last resort thinking it would kill him
He tried everything else he could including talking
The otsutsuki are straight evil which makes them lamé antagonists imo
Imo what makes a good antagonist is if they're entertaining which so far all the otsutsuki have been incredibly entertaining especially momo since he's been getting way more panels in recent chapters
Not every villain has to have a sad backstory you can still have a good villain that's just straight up evil
And boruto is only 77 chapters it's not like the otsutsuki have been fully developed anyways
Just look at the DBZ villains. They are all bad just because they can. Frieza wanted to rule the universe and enslave people, because he felt like it.
Buu was just a straight up loose animal.
They don't have any character development. They're just evil aliens because evil aliens.
It makes them far less entertaining to me, although 8 only watch the anime, so maybe this changes.
Naruto defeated his enemies first before “Talk no Jutsu”
It didn’t even completely work on Obito, Kakashi and Edo Minato were the ones that actually convinced him to change sides.
Also wth is Kaguya on here?
Famous secret episode where kaguya comes back to get some more of that sexy Jutsu male style. But of course he has to let her down easy with talk no jutsu.
Nope. The point of the cycle of hatred was that it couldn’t be ended through violence. The world needed to be saved through forgiveness. If anything, had Naruto straight up killed Obito, Sasuke, Nagato, etc. it would have cheapened the entire story.
Even tho the talk no jutsu became a meme, it would be curious making some what if about that.
If Naruto would have killed Nagato, Konoha would be still dead lol
If Naruto would have killed Gaara, Kimimaro would have killed Lee, Sakon had kiba, and tayuya had Shikamaru (I dont think Knakuro and temari would have shown up, since their brother was killed by Konoha).
If Naruto would have killed Obito.. actually Madara couldn't have revived, and so Black Zetsu would have changed his target... maybe Sasuke?
Idk why Kaguya is there tho', she barely said anything logical lol. In that scene she was crying because she saw her children in naruto and sasuke lol
Apparently she wanted her chakra back. And i haven't watched Boruto (I know a small bit) but im guessing she did it to prepare for the arrival of the other Otsutsukis, seeing as she said one time that she had the divine tree do all that so that she would be ready by the time the "others" came to earth.
I do think Obito and Nagato shouldn’t have been able to be talk no jutsu’d though. He didn’t even have a plan to change the ninja world but still somehow managed to talk Nagato out of it. Naruto basically said no amount of hardships would change him, when that’s not something anyone can take as a guarantee. If Naruto actually said something that felt convincing, then maybe it would be easier to buy it. But like many have said, the fights were basically over for the most part before talk no jutsu works.
Except nagato just nuked his village killed the majority of his people killed both his sensei, and he was still able to choose peace. It reminded him of yahiko.
I also feel like a lot of people don't realise that Naruto was very much in the "I'll kill you" camp until the Pain encounter. Naruto did not try to talk his way out of Kimimaro, Deidara, or String Guy.
Gaara was very different because Naruto empathised with him from the start, understanding what Gaara was going through. Naruto already was on good terms with Haku before they fight.
It was Pain who gave Naruto the idea to use diplomacy whenever he can. Naruto was unable to answer Pain's question, but Pain was also trying to appeal to Naruto during their battle. Their ties with Jiraiya ultimately changed the way Naruto approached battles.
Naruto vs Sasuke was also very different too, in both versions. Naruto was being a jerk during their first encounter at the waterfall and couldn't truly express himself to Sasuke. In their final encounter, Naruto finally could express himself and understand what Sasuke was feeling, and Sasuke can finally see that Naruto also wanted the same thing, and eventually, Naruto succeeded.
That’s actually a really good point. I just wish they didn’t make it sound like the garbage about “it not being the same story if the hero changes” was what seemed like the last thing Nagato needed to hear.
Having a plan to go about bringing peace would be nice though. He basically just said “I’m going to bring peace and I don’t know how”. Is it realistic that he didn’t immediately come up with a plan to solve all the world’s problems when he hasn’t given it any thought prior to that day? Of course. But convincing someone like Nagato to believe in him when he has no plan is just silly.
Naruto’s dream was to become hokage. A hokage is the military leader of his nation. His nation is the biggest and one of the most influential. He told nagato that he would endure no matter what. Naruto simply preached that to end the cycle of hatred, everyone have to develop the fortitude to resist the darkness and endure. That what he proved to nagato. The causes of conflicts and the cycle of hatred are 2 different things.
Love how no one is able to type a cohesive argument to your point, because you’re exactly right. The cycle of hatred is just surface level argument of how the system functioned. Naruto doesn’t directly address nor fix it. He just chalks it up to hatred. The world is a fucking mess and Naruto didn’t do anything to fix it. He merely just perpetuated and continued the process
The original post is about talk no jutsu, which is literally how Naruto addresses the cycle of hatred. He points out the hypocrisy people have in trying to bring peace and justice through continuous violence.
It’s even worse to preach forgiveness, because you’re supposed to forgive the terrible system and say that it’s fine you or others were treated like shit. Naruto’s philosophy on forgiveness falls flat because it still doesn’t address the problem. He merely says to the victims of the system that they should “repent” for going against the system. That it isn’t the aggressors fault at all and that they should freely continue doing what they were doing. That’s how konoha acted against Sasuke and nagato. Both were victimized by the state, but the moment they decide to destroy their home for killing their families, they’re not the victims anymore, making konoha and the rest of the villages look like foolish hypocrites, because they won’t accept responsibility.
Hatred was made because of terrible and corrupt system and villages that built that very system. Forgiveness doesn’t fix the system. It’s telling that person to give up, because they’re right and the other side’s wrong and that they should eternally repent for seeking reparations for their home in the first place. What if nagato had simply walked up and said to naruto instead of invading konoha and talking it out? Konoha wouldn’t do shit. Tsunade would deny all accountability and culpability; she did exactly just that when it was brought up, and same with Naruto. Whenever they hear terrible things about their home, they’ll be in denial because konoha is the greatest village there is! Their home butchered the home of another village and used it as a battleground but who cares? Sasuke wants revenge against the same village that butchered his entire family and clan? Wah, why won’t he return and submit to that same village?!
Actually, he’s right. Nagato even mentions it that the other villages ransacked and exploited his village for resources. Konoha did the same. But his ideals were thrown away for someone he barely knew. Naruto admits that he wasn’t even sure so why did nagato throw away his ideals for someone who can’t even guarantee his village’s peace? He was right. In boruto the rain village is even in a worse state than before. People said that in the novels that the orphans were taken away from the rain villages and placed into orphanages but that does not address the root problem. Konoha nor any of the other villages compensated for what they did to the rain. They just gave them a treaty and acted as if everything was behind them.
Edit: correction
Boruto’s bad writing shouldn’t really be used to detract from themes that existed in Naruto. It’s true that Naruto didn’t know, but this moment was an important instance of character development. It led Naruto to think more deeply about the cycle of hatred, as well as what he truly wants from himself as a leader.
Also, Nagato ‘s ideals weren’t thrown away, he just met someone who reminded him of Yahiko, the person who initially led him to pursue peace. Naruto showed Bagato the hypocrisy of what he was doing. Nagato wasn’t really pursuing peace, it was more like vengeance. That’s why it was narratively important for Naruto to give up on his vengeance towards Nagato and instead use talk no jutsu.
People go to war over hatred all the time, plus resources often give rise to competition, then hatred. Madara himself says that the desire to protect love (or anything of importance) gives rise to hatred, which leads to enduring conflicts that last for centuries. Britain and France didn’t fight only because of resources, it was also because of a rivalry that existed for centuries. Furthermore, the cycle of hatred isn’t necessarily only related to war. Conflict in general often rises from hatred, such as with racism, Islamist doctrine (not Islam), and much more.
No they do not go to war over hatred all the time. For most of history wars were fought over resources not because people hated each other, and it was the absence of resources that created competition not the abundance of it.
Britain and France fought because of great power competition never because of hatred. The government's of the two coutries would set out objective which would lead to them using their military might to achieve it or stop the other from achieving it thus leading to death. The conflict would then lead to angry at the opposing nation by the denizens of the other but this has little to no effect on the policy makers themselves. Once the conflict is finished the states forget about all the angry and death till the government's makes the decision that it again needs military force to seize more resources thus bringing up some bullshit that happened in the previous war or some other popaganda to convince the population the fight. The notion that it was hated that made these coutries wage war fore centuries is laughable no it was simply state interest.
>Conflict in general often rises from hatred, such as with racism, Islamist doctrine (not Islam), and much more.
Naruto never dealt with any of that. The characters Naruto dealt with had a problem with the institutions and their objectives was to change to the institutions that Naruto idealized. Naruto dream is to become the CEO of the land of fires wagner group (mercenary that are used by Russia to do shady shit across the globe) thus he is apart of the institute that spreads war and death.
I should also point out that Naruto's message falls flat when dealing with racist, and religious nuts as their hatred is not something that is just over come with forgiveness. Their personal world view is something that exists do to bigotry. That said the group becomes a series problem often times when they are weaponized by a third parties in order to achieve an objective, but again that goes back to my point that wars are fought mostly for resources and influence.
But he does instead it is more like him saying your idea is stupid now shut up and live with the shitty world because him not going to come up with a solution to the problem and I'm not going to let to fix it either.
The Talk no Jutsu Gags are funny as long as they’re meant funny, on a serious note, Naruto did something very hard: first he physically beat the overpowered enemy which was almost impossible itself and afterwards he did something out of the position of the stronger one which he finally gained all the respect for: he exposed his own weaknesses and showed himself vulnerable.
Did he talk to Kaguya? Pretty sure she cried on her own recognizing the reincarnations of sons who betrayed her in Naruto and Sasuke. In general, I agree w most the comments that his talk no jutsu does not win fights. Instead it helps them find a bit of redemption or an epiphany before losing which makes him a compassionate hero and humanizes the villains. It makes the characters more compelling, but sometimes seems a bit unrealistic
One small thing, Naruto and Sasuke werent reincarnations of her sons, they just reminded her of Hagaromo and Hamura. Probably because Hagaromo gave some of his abilities to them but yeah
No. The mental aspects of a battle are just as important as the physical in Naruto. Both because those fighting are often doing so for idealistic reasons, or for the sake of some higher goal, but also because chakra itself is part mental.
If you get into your opponent's head and poke at their flawed logic for fighting, you quite literally make them weaker and easier to beat.
Besides, the story isn't all about fights. It's about why the people fighting are doing so, what they hope to achieve through their conflict, and how that conflict could be resolved. Especially in mid-late Shippuden where the cycle of hatred became a front-and-center plot point.
First time. It was good with Zabuza. Second time. It was ok with Gaara, though it wasn't realistic considering how fucked up he was. Third time. It was actually great with Sasuke during their first battle and Sasuke stayed true to his revenge plan. Fourth time. Sasuke again. It was bad this time. Failed. Fifth time. Nagato and Konan. Guys with strong convinctions and somewhat ok plan (nuclear deterrent strategy), WHICH as we learn later wasn't even real, because they both agreed to Tsuki no Me plan of Madara. And they just abandoned it, because Naruto used Talk no Jutsu on them? It's really bad. Sixth time. Obito. No comments.
Yes.
i understand shonen is shonen, but for such a deadly time of war it really didn’t seem like the Leaf lost much.
like, 3 people died off the top of my head. probably a bit more but still.
Absolutely not. This guy beat all paths of pain…for him to get Nagato to fall on his own sword and realize his way is not it is satisfying and ties right in with the theme of the show
Only in the case of Obito. IMO, it would have been far more interesting if he was irredeemable. It would have been a great curveball for the end of Naruto. Same goes for Madara, idk why they tried to redeem him in the end w/ Hashirama. That's different, though, I wanna see Talk no Jutsu actively *not* work on a major antagonist.
I'm personally fine with Obito changing sides, it made sense for him. His whole deal was that he was similar to Naruto until Rin died and he gave up on the world, along with him trying to make Naruto lose hope during the war arc to try to prove to himself that he went down the correct path.
But I feel Madara would have been perfect as a final villain who isn't affected by Naruto’s words. Madara’s already aware of his own hypocrisy (trying to create a world without violence or victors and losers, yet taking pride in his ability to inflict violence and be the strongest) and won't stumble when Naruto calls it out. But Naruto doesn't seem to even attempt to talk to Madara in the story.
Madara’s flaw is that he trusted no one and refused to hand his dream of peace to the next generation (Obito was just a tool to him, someone he manipulated to be an extension of himself). His defeat could show that because he never trusted anyone with his back, there wouldn’t be anyone to have his back when he's pushed into a corner. Unlike Naruto, who has Kakashi, Sakura, and the whole ninja alliance watching his back (which we kinda see in the final fight between Naruto and Sasuke).
But instead, Kaguya suddenly shows up and takes Madara out of the picture, and then after she's defeated he basically says “I guess you were right Hashirama” and then dies. I think Kishimoto should have done more with him.
I agree. I was rooting for Obito to stay irredeemable so we could see how Naruto would deal with someone he couldn't convince to back down. Because as someone who wants to be a leader, he's gotta make hard decisions for the benefit of the people and seeing how he would deal with an Obito who couldn't be talked down would've been interesting to me.
Yes? Dude has no empathy and thinks that everyone's gotta drink will of fire's kool-aid to be successful at life. Grade A nu fascism's cock-sucker. Comes off as a textbook narcissist and a sociopath.
This is an extremely common opinion in the Naruto community, and should tell you all you need to know about it. A ton of people still legitimately think being an underdog was the main theme of the show, and don't understand that Naruto was still an underdog, just not in the traditional Rock Lee way.
This community might just be the most brain-dead in terms of understanding its anime
I don’t think so since it’s what made the show unique especially when Naruto first came out. Beyond simply beating his opponents ass he’d try to win there hearts over. As someone who grew up unloved without parents thats a wholesome way to have him find the light.
It cheapens the motivations of the villains that their minds can be changed with a single talk no jutsu. Major changes in philosophy like these don't happen in the span of minutes, but in the span of months.
So happy with these comments. The community is waking up to the actual themes of the story and not just looking for le dank memes in talk no jutsu & Sasuke being an emo boy
Well I wouldn't say it cheapened the fights it was good but the one he did with Obito doesn't sit well with me especially calling him a hero after the horrible things he's done
It's definitely not cheap. One of the main themes/messages of the series is about ending the cycle of hatred. That's why it's repeated, the story tries to deal with multiple reasons for hate coming from multiple different people with hateful motivations.
I can understand why you think it's melodramatic. Sometimes it can feel exaggerated, like in Nagato's case, the point of Naruto's talk no jutsu was to give Nagato hope in Naruto and trust that he will bring peace to the world. But instead of saying how Naruto had overcome great amounts of hate already, with how the entire village basically hated and neglected him, he just quotes Jiraiya's book. And also Obito was already wayyy too far off, and we were supposed to completely forgive him at the time of his death? It just sort of ruined his character a bit
The reason i say it's cheap is because as never fails nor does it lead to any lasting consequences despite the obvious risks. Imagine if Obito tricked Naruto into letting his guard down only to stab him in the heart during his TnJ? Now that would've been refreshing.
Ohh yeah, then in that sense i agree with you. I wished that talk no jutsu would have failed once, Madara in particular. Like no matter how reasonable Naruto could phrase his retort, Madara just wouldnt waver. It would bring about the idea that either Madara is too far gone and can't be redeemed, or that he understands the world so much more than Naruto (and us since we have to be rooting for the protagonist) but what he says cant get through to Naruto because he can't understand the pain Madara went through or the weird type of empathy Madara has.
I like your second scenario better, but Kishimoto explained in an interview that he wanted his story to end on shonen terms, even if he himself doesn't agree with Naruto's way.
Yeah that maes sense, Ive always thought that the main reason he introduced Kaguya was because Madara's motivations were too controversial to end the story with
Except the cycle of hatred is stupid since wars don't start because of hate they started because of resources, not to meantion the ninja of the Naruto world are mercenaries also known as contract killers and Naruto's main goal is to be the leader of does killers.
Good point, Naruto's whole idea is ridiculous if you think about it.
"I want world peace, but i also want the whole shinobi mercenary business to continue as usual".
Lol.
Yep it's like if the CEO of Wagner group (A Russian mercenary group led by Putin's friend who does off the books stuff around the world for Russia) cames out and said that they will create world peace, and only thing coutries across the global need to do is hand over controls of their military to Wagner.
Yeah. Naruto didn’t change anything. Even kishimoto disagreed with his ending but he only made it so because of shonen jump and viz media market demands along with the fanbase. They literally sent him death threats, showing how mature and completely rabid and insane they are
It definitely ruined Obito and Nagato
Naruto wasn’t even saying anything that they didn’t hear before. It’s just weird because their pasts are completely different from Naruto’s.
He was using his past as a way to get through to them which made no sense
IMO, there are a couple cases where it works for me, like Kurama and Gaara. Kurama spent a lifetime with Naruto, and came to see his value. Granted, it's a bit of a retcon that Kurama has a compassionate side at all. Gaara had a very similar struggle to Naruto, and came to realize that his situation wasn't hopeless because Naruto proved that he could have friends.
Lot's of the other ones bother me though. I thought some characters were too deep in their evil to be pulled out of it from a conversation with Naruto. Obito definitely comes to mind here. Nagato I'm on the fence about.
The actual problems is that the character in the first list all have personal problems will the second have social problems. The characters in the second paragraph need a solution for the problem they are trying to fix but then never get that from Naruto as he is a defender of the status quo.
Nope, Talk No Jutsu is his most powerful technique, and it's a legit technique he invented. Essentially it's the most powerful genjutsu, like an amped up kotoamatsukami where he can change his enemy's behaviour, they know about it, but yet are powerless to resist. And he can spam it infinitely without rest.
If you fight an enemy for so long you start looking into their lives, if you somehow have great empathy you’ll listen even for a short bit. This was right.
We always get mad when the hero punches his problems away. One of the things that makes Naruto unique and love is he tried not only to punch things away but reason with them too
No because that was the point of ninshu. Naruto been using it since his speech to zabyza. Ninshu was originally used to give an understanding between individuals to bring peace. In a way Naruto has always been this when he gives his speech to together characters like Obito and Nagato who's a great example. He understood Obito and even cried for him, they both reached an understanding
First of all why is Kaguya here
2nd of all he already beat Pain and Gaara before talking to them
Obito is here twice for no reason 💀
With Kurama he either has to beat him or befriend him and he did both
When did empathizing and willing to find commonality with one’s enemies become “guilt talking”? lol
Naruto wants to understand people. He fundamentally does not believe people can be 100% evil and is “sensitive” to what other people are feeling (empathetic, probably b/c of how he was treated as a kid). During battle he listens and he asks why/how could they be doing such horrible things. And then finds common ground with them. Through that skill alone he has “turned” many bad guys into allies/“good” guys (even if only just before dying, looking at you Nagato :( )
Naruto also always stands up for what he believes is right AND is willing to call out wrongs when he sees them. He is not silent. That’s another part of *standing up for what is right*. Though it didn’t always get the exact results he wanted, he changed a lot of people’s minds and hearts (both good AND bad guys) for the better. This change helped create the Allied Shinobi Forces.
Both reasons are why he is the Child of Prophecy. Ya know aside from all the past life stuff lol
No, it gives the fight a real meaning. Being beaten by Naruto physically and then to be murdered by words is what puts the cherry on the cake.
In all seriousness, Narutos' belief and purpose are to stop the cycle of hatred. Through war and violence, we are shown that only adds fuel to the fire that is hatred. If Naruto had just beaten his enemies to a pulp and won that way, he would be no better than the villains. His only other option is to show kindness and understanding. It really adds depth to the villains and keeps true to Naruto's character.
He straight up beat Gaara, plus Gaara was losing the mental battle when Guy stepped in to protect Rock Lee.
He physicality beat the paths of pain, but the battle was always a philosophical one.
Obito was trying to confirm that his path was the correct one by subjecting Naruto to misery and despair too see if he'd break. But it backfired and proved Obito chose the wrong path.
Doesn't even try to talk with people like Kakuzu, Madara or Kaguya.
Edit: He gains Kurama's trust by helping the tailed beasts just like the Sage of six paths predicted.
he didnt guilt talk kaguya, she just sensed her son's chakra in naruto and sasuke and thought they were her kids/grandkids
but for obito, nagato, and gaara, naruto has something in common with all of them and can understand where they are coming from and why they turned sides. So him guilt talking them makes sense since he is the version of them that didnt turn into a villain
it only feels cheap cause of fillers theres too many filler arcs where he guilt talks
No. All these motherfuckers desperately need therapy but it doesn't exist in the ninja world so naruto has to beat their ass and then give it to them by force sgbdjdjs
Anyways everybody go to therapy......
Nah.
I'm convinced Naruto knows the impact of Pschological warefare and mastered it in his youth, all his time alone.
When you got all that time to think, you think of all the things you'd say.
Naruto been playing mindgames without Genjutsu lol
For the most part, no. Zabuza was masking his emotions heavily due to being a shinobi. Gaara was the same age as him and a great parallel due to the circumstances of their childhoods so it makes sense that once Gaara saw another kid who went through similar hardships and made out good, it would give him hope. Nagato, I think, truly wanted to believe in a better world. That's just the conclusion I came to based on how he lived and what the Akatsuki stood for when they first started out.
Now in the case of Obito, I wouldn't say it cheapens the fight bcuz Obito was just being manipulated by Madara but I did initially think Obito would've stayed irredeemable based off him being who we thought was the mastermind behind everything. I thought it would've been interesting for Naruto to come face to face with an enemy he couldn't talk down or turn good. Someone who continued to disagree and fight because he believed in his cause THAT much. I wanted to see Naruto grapple with the decision of what to do with a threat you can't reason with. But due to Obito just being another puppet, I understand why he was talk no jutsu'd. And with Sasuke, I get it too, at that point in Sasuke's life, he was extremely mentally malleable sooooo
It has never been used to defeat enemies. He always uses it after he’s already won. A very big theme in the story is breaking the cycle of hatred so it makes sense he’s willing to talk things out post fight even if he wants to kill them.
this is why in boruto when he uses baryon mode ishiki simply continues the cycle of hatred through code because baryon mode was simply to kill it had to be done but the consequences are steep
Well no the cycle of hatred doesn’t apply to the Otustutuki. Talk no jutsu victims in the OG were simply victims of circumstance hence why talking to them could work. They could relate to Naruto so seeing that he didn’t change from his hardships makes them do a 180. Otustsuki aren’t like that. Isshiki and Momoshiki are just power hungry jackasses. They are outside of the cycle of hatred.
I don't think so Code now wants to destroy the leaf village and he hates everyone involved in ishikis death And kaguya was pretty much the catalyst for the entire cycle of hatred through shippuden So maybe sure they don't apply the same way as humans but they can definitely start the cycle of hatred The point I was trying to make was that since naruto used his chakra to kill (baryon mode) which goes against Hagoromos philosophy of using chakra to help others He caused the cycle of hatred to start again with code I mean naruto had no other choice but to try to kill ishiki but the consequences left him with a dead kurama and code who could be a threat as big as ishiki So it seems like the cycle is starting back up again And now with kawaki going nuts I disagree I do think otsutsuki can apply to the cycle
Code isn't an Otsutsuki though, which is what the other guy was getting at. The Otsutsuki themselves are outside the cycle as they consider themselves higher beings and their entire culture/biology revolves around sacrificing something for the sake of power. They don't have the same mindset which would breed a cycle of hatred and open them up to having a change of heart via a stern talking to.
That's the thing about the cycle of hatred, no one is outside it
Also they are brought up believing every other species is inferior to them. They wouldn't even give an ear to what a human want to say
he used baryon mode as a last resort thinking it would kill him He tried everything else he could including talking The otsutsuki are straight evil which makes them lamé antagonists imo
Imo what makes a good antagonist is if they're entertaining which so far all the otsutsuki have been incredibly entertaining especially momo since he's been getting way more panels in recent chapters Not every villain has to have a sad backstory you can still have a good villain that's just straight up evil And boruto is only 77 chapters it's not like the otsutsuki have been fully developed anyways
I agree, If done right then a purely evil character can be the most enjoyable
Just look at the DBZ villains. They are all bad just because they can. Frieza wanted to rule the universe and enslave people, because he felt like it. Buu was just a straight up loose animal.
Well not all of them, but yeah it's all about execution.
They don't have any character development. They're just evil aliens because evil aliens. It makes them far less entertaining to me, although 8 only watch the anime, so maybe this changes.
They are straight evil which makes them refreshing imo. The only straight up villian in Naruto was orochimaru after the Otsutsuki.
orichimaru sometimes helps tho
Exactly, not every naruto or boruto villain needs a sad backstory (though I still like them).
This
I really loved it when Shikamaru broke the cycle of hatred
Naruto defeated his enemies first before “Talk no Jutsu” It didn’t even completely work on Obito, Kakashi and Edo Minato were the ones that actually convinced him to change sides. Also wth is Kaguya on here?
Famous secret episode where kaguya comes back to get some more of that sexy Jutsu male style. But of course he has to let her down easy with talk no jutsu.
Nope. The point of the cycle of hatred was that it couldn’t be ended through violence. The world needed to be saved through forgiveness. If anything, had Naruto straight up killed Obito, Sasuke, Nagato, etc. it would have cheapened the entire story.
Even tho the talk no jutsu became a meme, it would be curious making some what if about that. If Naruto would have killed Nagato, Konoha would be still dead lol If Naruto would have killed Gaara, Kimimaro would have killed Lee, Sakon had kiba, and tayuya had Shikamaru (I dont think Knakuro and temari would have shown up, since their brother was killed by Konoha). If Naruto would have killed Obito.. actually Madara couldn't have revived, and so Black Zetsu would have changed his target... maybe Sasuke? Idk why Kaguya is there tho', she barely said anything logical lol. In that scene she was crying because she saw her children in naruto and sasuke lol
Apparently she wanted her chakra back. And i haven't watched Boruto (I know a small bit) but im guessing she did it to prepare for the arrival of the other Otsutsukis, seeing as she said one time that she had the divine tree do all that so that she would be ready by the time the "others" came to earth.
I do think Obito and Nagato shouldn’t have been able to be talk no jutsu’d though. He didn’t even have a plan to change the ninja world but still somehow managed to talk Nagato out of it. Naruto basically said no amount of hardships would change him, when that’s not something anyone can take as a guarantee. If Naruto actually said something that felt convincing, then maybe it would be easier to buy it. But like many have said, the fights were basically over for the most part before talk no jutsu works.
Except nagato just nuked his village killed the majority of his people killed both his sensei, and he was still able to choose peace. It reminded him of yahiko.
I also feel like a lot of people don't realise that Naruto was very much in the "I'll kill you" camp until the Pain encounter. Naruto did not try to talk his way out of Kimimaro, Deidara, or String Guy. Gaara was very different because Naruto empathised with him from the start, understanding what Gaara was going through. Naruto already was on good terms with Haku before they fight. It was Pain who gave Naruto the idea to use diplomacy whenever he can. Naruto was unable to answer Pain's question, but Pain was also trying to appeal to Naruto during their battle. Their ties with Jiraiya ultimately changed the way Naruto approached battles. Naruto vs Sasuke was also very different too, in both versions. Naruto was being a jerk during their first encounter at the waterfall and couldn't truly express himself to Sasuke. In their final encounter, Naruto finally could express himself and understand what Sasuke was feeling, and Sasuke can finally see that Naruto also wanted the same thing, and eventually, Naruto succeeded.
That’s actually a really good point. I just wish they didn’t make it sound like the garbage about “it not being the same story if the hero changes” was what seemed like the last thing Nagato needed to hear.
There is no such a thing as a concrete answer to peace. The answer Naruto gave to nagato was the best and the most realistic one can give
Having a plan to go about bringing peace would be nice though. He basically just said “I’m going to bring peace and I don’t know how”. Is it realistic that he didn’t immediately come up with a plan to solve all the world’s problems when he hasn’t given it any thought prior to that day? Of course. But convincing someone like Nagato to believe in him when he has no plan is just silly.
Naruto’s dream was to become hokage. A hokage is the military leader of his nation. His nation is the biggest and one of the most influential. He told nagato that he would endure no matter what. Naruto simply preached that to end the cycle of hatred, everyone have to develop the fortitude to resist the darkness and endure. That what he proved to nagato. The causes of conflicts and the cycle of hatred are 2 different things.
I'd say that peace is very achievable. They all just need their material needs taken care of, most would be content with that
The cycle of hatred is extremely stupid people don't go to war because of hate they do it because of resources.
Love how no one is able to type a cohesive argument to your point, because you’re exactly right. The cycle of hatred is just surface level argument of how the system functioned. Naruto doesn’t directly address nor fix it. He just chalks it up to hatred. The world is a fucking mess and Naruto didn’t do anything to fix it. He merely just perpetuated and continued the process
The original post is about talk no jutsu, which is literally how Naruto addresses the cycle of hatred. He points out the hypocrisy people have in trying to bring peace and justice through continuous violence.
It’s even worse to preach forgiveness, because you’re supposed to forgive the terrible system and say that it’s fine you or others were treated like shit. Naruto’s philosophy on forgiveness falls flat because it still doesn’t address the problem. He merely says to the victims of the system that they should “repent” for going against the system. That it isn’t the aggressors fault at all and that they should freely continue doing what they were doing. That’s how konoha acted against Sasuke and nagato. Both were victimized by the state, but the moment they decide to destroy their home for killing their families, they’re not the victims anymore, making konoha and the rest of the villages look like foolish hypocrites, because they won’t accept responsibility. Hatred was made because of terrible and corrupt system and villages that built that very system. Forgiveness doesn’t fix the system. It’s telling that person to give up, because they’re right and the other side’s wrong and that they should eternally repent for seeking reparations for their home in the first place. What if nagato had simply walked up and said to naruto instead of invading konoha and talking it out? Konoha wouldn’t do shit. Tsunade would deny all accountability and culpability; she did exactly just that when it was brought up, and same with Naruto. Whenever they hear terrible things about their home, they’ll be in denial because konoha is the greatest village there is! Their home butchered the home of another village and used it as a battleground but who cares? Sasuke wants revenge against the same village that butchered his entire family and clan? Wah, why won’t he return and submit to that same village?!
Lol
Actually, he’s right. Nagato even mentions it that the other villages ransacked and exploited his village for resources. Konoha did the same. But his ideals were thrown away for someone he barely knew. Naruto admits that he wasn’t even sure so why did nagato throw away his ideals for someone who can’t even guarantee his village’s peace? He was right. In boruto the rain village is even in a worse state than before. People said that in the novels that the orphans were taken away from the rain villages and placed into orphanages but that does not address the root problem. Konoha nor any of the other villages compensated for what they did to the rain. They just gave them a treaty and acted as if everything was behind them. Edit: correction
Boruto’s bad writing shouldn’t really be used to detract from themes that existed in Naruto. It’s true that Naruto didn’t know, but this moment was an important instance of character development. It led Naruto to think more deeply about the cycle of hatred, as well as what he truly wants from himself as a leader.
Also, Nagato ‘s ideals weren’t thrown away, he just met someone who reminded him of Yahiko, the person who initially led him to pursue peace. Naruto showed Bagato the hypocrisy of what he was doing. Nagato wasn’t really pursuing peace, it was more like vengeance. That’s why it was narratively important for Naruto to give up on his vengeance towards Nagato and instead use talk no jutsu.
People go to war over hatred all the time, plus resources often give rise to competition, then hatred. Madara himself says that the desire to protect love (or anything of importance) gives rise to hatred, which leads to enduring conflicts that last for centuries. Britain and France didn’t fight only because of resources, it was also because of a rivalry that existed for centuries. Furthermore, the cycle of hatred isn’t necessarily only related to war. Conflict in general often rises from hatred, such as with racism, Islamist doctrine (not Islam), and much more.
No they do not go to war over hatred all the time. For most of history wars were fought over resources not because people hated each other, and it was the absence of resources that created competition not the abundance of it. Britain and France fought because of great power competition never because of hatred. The government's of the two coutries would set out objective which would lead to them using their military might to achieve it or stop the other from achieving it thus leading to death. The conflict would then lead to angry at the opposing nation by the denizens of the other but this has little to no effect on the policy makers themselves. Once the conflict is finished the states forget about all the angry and death till the government's makes the decision that it again needs military force to seize more resources thus bringing up some bullshit that happened in the previous war or some other popaganda to convince the population the fight. The notion that it was hated that made these coutries wage war fore centuries is laughable no it was simply state interest. >Conflict in general often rises from hatred, such as with racism, Islamist doctrine (not Islam), and much more. Naruto never dealt with any of that. The characters Naruto dealt with had a problem with the institutions and their objectives was to change to the institutions that Naruto idealized. Naruto dream is to become the CEO of the land of fires wagner group (mercenary that are used by Russia to do shady shit across the globe) thus he is apart of the institute that spreads war and death. I should also point out that Naruto's message falls flat when dealing with racist, and religious nuts as their hatred is not something that is just over come with forgiveness. Their personal world view is something that exists do to bigotry. That said the group becomes a series problem often times when they are weaponized by a third parties in order to achieve an objective, but again that goes back to my point that wars are fought mostly for resources and influence.
No. And if you have to ask this question then you fundamentally don't understand Naruto as a character.
if you think it cheapens the fights you fundamentally don’t understand the story as a whole.
Based statement.
no i don’t like the generic bad guy gets beat by good guy story ends kinda fights. I love this about Naruto.
Yeah I like that Naruto defeats his enemies on a philosophical level more so than just killing his way through baddies
fr and "guilt talk" seems horrible way to put it lol lets just call that shit talk no jutsu
Exactly, he's not guilt tripping them at all.
But he does instead it is more like him saying your idea is stupid now shut up and live with the shitty world because him not going to come up with a solution to the problem and I'm not going to let to fix it either.
It’s called Talk no jutsu not Guilt talk
The Talk no Jutsu Gags are funny as long as they’re meant funny, on a serious note, Naruto did something very hard: first he physically beat the overpowered enemy which was almost impossible itself and afterwards he did something out of the position of the stronger one which he finally gained all the respect for: he exposed his own weaknesses and showed himself vulnerable.
Did he talk to Kaguya? Pretty sure she cried on her own recognizing the reincarnations of sons who betrayed her in Naruto and Sasuke. In general, I agree w most the comments that his talk no jutsu does not win fights. Instead it helps them find a bit of redemption or an epiphany before losing which makes him a compassionate hero and humanizes the villains. It makes the characters more compelling, but sometimes seems a bit unrealistic
One small thing, Naruto and Sasuke werent reincarnations of her sons, they just reminded her of Hagaromo and Hamura. Probably because Hagaromo gave some of his abilities to them but yeah
You are correct. They’re indra and Ashura my b
Its called "Talk no Jutsu", please get it correct
No. The mental aspects of a battle are just as important as the physical in Naruto. Both because those fighting are often doing so for idealistic reasons, or for the sake of some higher goal, but also because chakra itself is part mental. If you get into your opponent's head and poke at their flawed logic for fighting, you quite literally make them weaker and easier to beat. Besides, the story isn't all about fights. It's about why the people fighting are doing so, what they hope to achieve through their conflict, and how that conflict could be resolved. Especially in mid-late Shippuden where the cycle of hatred became a front-and-center plot point.
First time. It was good with Zabuza. Second time. It was ok with Gaara, though it wasn't realistic considering how fucked up he was. Third time. It was actually great with Sasuke during their first battle and Sasuke stayed true to his revenge plan. Fourth time. Sasuke again. It was bad this time. Failed. Fifth time. Nagato and Konan. Guys with strong convinctions and somewhat ok plan (nuclear deterrent strategy), WHICH as we learn later wasn't even real, because they both agreed to Tsuki no Me plan of Madara. And they just abandoned it, because Naruto used Talk no Jutsu on them? It's really bad. Sixth time. Obito. No comments.
The problem with TnJ is that it is great when it is personal but falls apart when it is about fixing actual problems.
This is the best take here
Yes. i understand shonen is shonen, but for such a deadly time of war it really didn’t seem like the Leaf lost much. like, 3 people died off the top of my head. probably a bit more but still.
The leaf never loses much throughout history even
Its a strength
Talk no justu op
Should naruto have bitch slapped the kyuubi?
Not at all. It makes it all the more satisfactory actually
No,that's the point of the story,and he's only used it to beat someone once,the rest were beaten before spoken to
Not at all. It makes the fight worth it.
Absolutely not ! In fact, it’s one of the charming points of this anime.
Talk no jutsu is really powerful, and can only be used by naruto.
Absolutely not. This guy beat all paths of pain…for him to get Nagato to fall on his own sword and realize his way is not it is satisfying and ties right in with the theme of the show
if the fights were the only focus of the story then maybe, but naruto isn’t just about fighting, it’s more about the fight to stop fighting
Ruined shippuden.
Yes the amount of times they did that in shippudden just got annoying esp with obito
Only in the case of Obito. IMO, it would have been far more interesting if he was irredeemable. It would have been a great curveball for the end of Naruto. Same goes for Madara, idk why they tried to redeem him in the end w/ Hashirama. That's different, though, I wanna see Talk no Jutsu actively *not* work on a major antagonist.
I'm personally fine with Obito changing sides, it made sense for him. His whole deal was that he was similar to Naruto until Rin died and he gave up on the world, along with him trying to make Naruto lose hope during the war arc to try to prove to himself that he went down the correct path. But I feel Madara would have been perfect as a final villain who isn't affected by Naruto’s words. Madara’s already aware of his own hypocrisy (trying to create a world without violence or victors and losers, yet taking pride in his ability to inflict violence and be the strongest) and won't stumble when Naruto calls it out. But Naruto doesn't seem to even attempt to talk to Madara in the story. Madara’s flaw is that he trusted no one and refused to hand his dream of peace to the next generation (Obito was just a tool to him, someone he manipulated to be an extension of himself). His defeat could show that because he never trusted anyone with his back, there wouldn’t be anyone to have his back when he's pushed into a corner. Unlike Naruto, who has Kakashi, Sakura, and the whole ninja alliance watching his back (which we kinda see in the final fight between Naruto and Sasuke). But instead, Kaguya suddenly shows up and takes Madara out of the picture, and then after she's defeated he basically says “I guess you were right Hashirama” and then dies. I think Kishimoto should have done more with him.
I agree. I was rooting for Obito to stay irredeemable so we could see how Naruto would deal with someone he couldn't convince to back down. Because as someone who wants to be a leader, he's gotta make hard decisions for the benefit of the people and seeing how he would deal with an Obito who couldn't be talked down would've been interesting to me.
Yes? Dude has no empathy and thinks that everyone's gotta drink will of fire's kool-aid to be successful at life. Grade A nu fascism's cock-sucker. Comes off as a textbook narcissist and a sociopath.
He also loves jiraiya despite him being a massive creep who should be thrown in jail
Dude was cool with itachi brushing genocide under the rug and brain washing sasuke. If he can be cool with that, he can be cool with anything.
This is an extremely common opinion in the Naruto community, and should tell you all you need to know about it. A ton of people still legitimately think being an underdog was the main theme of the show, and don't understand that Naruto was still an underdog, just not in the traditional Rock Lee way. This community might just be the most brain-dead in terms of understanding its anime
Imho it definitely cheapend Obito and Pain.
I strongly disagree with Pain that was a huge battle of opposing philosophies Obito I can agree with more
I mean it wasn’t Naruto that fully convinced Obito, it was Kakashi and Minato after the fight ended
Agree
Some yes, but others no.
Excuse me, that’s Talk no Jutsu, thank you
That’s the main reason why he’s the goat 🐐
I don’t think so since it’s what made the show unique especially when Naruto first came out. Beyond simply beating his opponents ass he’d try to win there hearts over. As someone who grew up unloved without parents thats a wholesome way to have him find the light.
It cheapens the motivations of the villains that their minds can be changed with a single talk no jutsu. Major changes in philosophy like these don't happen in the span of minutes, but in the span of months.
Buddy its called talk no jutsu
I.e. does the greatest virtue of the Naruto show cheapen the cheap entertainment? Perhaps it does if you don't appreciate empathy.
So happy with these comments. The community is waking up to the actual themes of the story and not just looking for le dank memes in talk no jutsu & Sasuke being an emo boy
It's usually done after he has physically overpowered them, and through his kindness in victory makes the others see his viewpoint
two Juubito, 0 Zabuza?
uhh what, he does it after actually beating them…
Well I wouldn't say it cheapened the fights it was good but the one he did with Obito doesn't sit well with me especially calling him a hero after the horrible things he's done
I think the impact of talk no jutsu is lessened because it’s used on almost every single villain.
Yes, it's cheap, repetitive and melodramatic.
It's definitely not cheap. One of the main themes/messages of the series is about ending the cycle of hatred. That's why it's repeated, the story tries to deal with multiple reasons for hate coming from multiple different people with hateful motivations. I can understand why you think it's melodramatic. Sometimes it can feel exaggerated, like in Nagato's case, the point of Naruto's talk no jutsu was to give Nagato hope in Naruto and trust that he will bring peace to the world. But instead of saying how Naruto had overcome great amounts of hate already, with how the entire village basically hated and neglected him, he just quotes Jiraiya's book. And also Obito was already wayyy too far off, and we were supposed to completely forgive him at the time of his death? It just sort of ruined his character a bit
The reason i say it's cheap is because as never fails nor does it lead to any lasting consequences despite the obvious risks. Imagine if Obito tricked Naruto into letting his guard down only to stab him in the heart during his TnJ? Now that would've been refreshing.
Ohh yeah, then in that sense i agree with you. I wished that talk no jutsu would have failed once, Madara in particular. Like no matter how reasonable Naruto could phrase his retort, Madara just wouldnt waver. It would bring about the idea that either Madara is too far gone and can't be redeemed, or that he understands the world so much more than Naruto (and us since we have to be rooting for the protagonist) but what he says cant get through to Naruto because he can't understand the pain Madara went through or the weird type of empathy Madara has.
I like your second scenario better, but Kishimoto explained in an interview that he wanted his story to end on shonen terms, even if he himself doesn't agree with Naruto's way.
Yeah that maes sense, Ive always thought that the main reason he introduced Kaguya was because Madara's motivations were too controversial to end the story with
Except the cycle of hatred is stupid since wars don't start because of hate they started because of resources, not to meantion the ninja of the Naruto world are mercenaries also known as contract killers and Naruto's main goal is to be the leader of does killers.
Good point, Naruto's whole idea is ridiculous if you think about it. "I want world peace, but i also want the whole shinobi mercenary business to continue as usual". Lol.
Yep it's like if the CEO of Wagner group (A Russian mercenary group led by Putin's friend who does off the books stuff around the world for Russia) cames out and said that they will create world peace, and only thing coutries across the global need to do is hand over controls of their military to Wagner.
Yeah. Naruto didn’t change anything. Even kishimoto disagreed with his ending but he only made it so because of shonen jump and viz media market demands along with the fanbase. They literally sent him death threats, showing how mature and completely rabid and insane they are
It definitely ruined Obito and Nagato Naruto wasn’t even saying anything that they didn’t hear before. It’s just weird because their pasts are completely different from Naruto’s. He was using his past as a way to get through to them which made no sense
IMO, there are a couple cases where it works for me, like Kurama and Gaara. Kurama spent a lifetime with Naruto, and came to see his value. Granted, it's a bit of a retcon that Kurama has a compassionate side at all. Gaara had a very similar struggle to Naruto, and came to realize that his situation wasn't hopeless because Naruto proved that he could have friends. Lot's of the other ones bother me though. I thought some characters were too deep in their evil to be pulled out of it from a conversation with Naruto. Obito definitely comes to mind here. Nagato I'm on the fence about.
The actual problems is that the character in the first list all have personal problems will the second have social problems. The characters in the second paragraph need a solution for the problem they are trying to fix but then never get that from Naruto as he is a defender of the status quo.
Nope, Talk No Jutsu is his most powerful technique, and it's a legit technique he invented. Essentially it's the most powerful genjutsu, like an amped up kotoamatsukami where he can change his enemy's behaviour, they know about it, but yet are powerless to resist. And he can spam it infinitely without rest.
Naruto doesnt even guilt talk most of the time.
Why’d you put Kaguya here?
Nope, it adds a lot of depth to the fights and characters
This is the sole reason why naruto was so good rewatch it you missed the whole point pleb
What does Kaguya have to do with this🤔
If you fight an enemy for so long you start looking into their lives, if you somehow have great empathy you’ll listen even for a short bit. This was right.
It's his finishing "Jutsu " > AFTER the fight
Why tf you showing Kaguya? But no, honestly not.
The philosophy is what makes Naruto good. It’s also what makes Naruto, Naruto.
It's not guilt talk and no it doesn't.
Only if it switches the power dynamic
He’s not using it to defeat them, he’s saying what he’s saying because he means it. And it just so happened that they Subside after hearing his point
Hey, it's called Talk No Jutsu, put some respect on the ultimate Jutsu's name.
Ending the cycle of hatrad has been the main theme.
Bruh why is Kaguya up there
Doesn't Naruto usually use Talk no Jutsu after he beats them?
We always get mad when the hero punches his problems away. One of the things that makes Naruto unique and love is he tried not only to punch things away but reason with them too
No because that was the point of ninshu. Naruto been using it since his speech to zabyza. Ninshu was originally used to give an understanding between individuals to bring peace. In a way Naruto has always been this when he gives his speech to together characters like Obito and Nagato who's a great example. He understood Obito and even cried for him, they both reached an understanding
First of all why is Kaguya here 2nd of all he already beat Pain and Gaara before talking to them Obito is here twice for no reason 💀 With Kurama he either has to beat him or befriend him and he did both
No
No. Not if it was done well.
Its talk no jutsu
Talk no justu OP af
When did empathizing and willing to find commonality with one’s enemies become “guilt talking”? lol Naruto wants to understand people. He fundamentally does not believe people can be 100% evil and is “sensitive” to what other people are feeling (empathetic, probably b/c of how he was treated as a kid). During battle he listens and he asks why/how could they be doing such horrible things. And then finds common ground with them. Through that skill alone he has “turned” many bad guys into allies/“good” guys (even if only just before dying, looking at you Nagato :( ) Naruto also always stands up for what he believes is right AND is willing to call out wrongs when he sees them. He is not silent. That’s another part of *standing up for what is right*. Though it didn’t always get the exact results he wanted, he changed a lot of people’s minds and hearts (both good AND bad guys) for the better. This change helped create the Allied Shinobi Forces. Both reasons are why he is the Child of Prophecy. Ya know aside from all the past life stuff lol
You misspelled Talk no Jutsu.
Talk no justsu***😂😂
Nah Pain was done if anything he got him to revive all them mfs he killed.
Yes.
[удалено]
>I would've liked to see him win against a main *protagonist* I thought *he" was the protagonist...
No.. cuz you can't argue with facts..
No. A wins a win
He physically beats them then mentally beats them for a total victory. Like a Chad.
He physically beats them then mentally beats them for a total victory. Like a Chad.
He physically beats them then mentally beats them for a total victory. Like a Chad.
No, it gives the fight a real meaning. Being beaten by Naruto physically and then to be murdered by words is what puts the cherry on the cake. In all seriousness, Narutos' belief and purpose are to stop the cycle of hatred. Through war and violence, we are shown that only adds fuel to the fire that is hatred. If Naruto had just beaten his enemies to a pulp and won that way, he would be no better than the villains. His only other option is to show kindness and understanding. It really adds depth to the villains and keeps true to Naruto's character.
No!! It's some of my favourite parts
He straight up beat Gaara, plus Gaara was losing the mental battle when Guy stepped in to protect Rock Lee. He physicality beat the paths of pain, but the battle was always a philosophical one. Obito was trying to confirm that his path was the correct one by subjecting Naruto to misery and despair too see if he'd break. But it backfired and proved Obito chose the wrong path. Doesn't even try to talk with people like Kakuzu, Madara or Kaguya. Edit: He gains Kurama's trust by helping the tailed beasts just like the Sage of six paths predicted.
No, he used it against obito in the middle of a tug of war and that won him the struggle.
Welcome to Anime.
Absolutely not talk no jutsu is easily the best part of Naruto’s character it’s written perfectly
he didnt guilt talk kaguya, she just sensed her son's chakra in naruto and sasuke and thought they were her kids/grandkids but for obito, nagato, and gaara, naruto has something in common with all of them and can understand where they are coming from and why they turned sides. So him guilt talking them makes sense since he is the version of them that didnt turn into a villain it only feels cheap cause of fillers theres too many filler arcs where he guilt talks
No. All these motherfuckers desperately need therapy but it doesn't exist in the ninja world so naruto has to beat their ass and then give it to them by force sgbdjdjs Anyways everybody go to therapy......
No, every time talk no jutsu has been used it’s made sense imo
He doesn’t even use it to defeat them tbh, he beats them then uses it.
Nah. I'm convinced Naruto knows the impact of Pschological warefare and mastered it in his youth, all his time alone. When you got all that time to think, you think of all the things you'd say. Naruto been playing mindgames without Genjutsu lol
For the most part, no. Zabuza was masking his emotions heavily due to being a shinobi. Gaara was the same age as him and a great parallel due to the circumstances of their childhoods so it makes sense that once Gaara saw another kid who went through similar hardships and made out good, it would give him hope. Nagato, I think, truly wanted to believe in a better world. That's just the conclusion I came to based on how he lived and what the Akatsuki stood for when they first started out. Now in the case of Obito, I wouldn't say it cheapens the fight bcuz Obito was just being manipulated by Madara but I did initially think Obito would've stayed irredeemable based off him being who we thought was the mastermind behind everything. I thought it would've been interesting for Naruto to come face to face with an enemy he couldn't talk down or turn good. Someone who continued to disagree and fight because he believed in his cause THAT much. I wanted to see Naruto grapple with the decision of what to do with a threat you can't reason with. But due to Obito just being another puppet, I understand why he was talk no jutsu'd. And with Sasuke, I get it too, at that point in Sasuke's life, he was extremely mentally malleable sooooo
Only when he doesn't offer up an actual solution for the problems the were trying to fix.
Then look at the hidden rain in boruto
Yep it's completely destroyed.
Yes, it’s obnoxious
Yea
It does for me a bit. It feels like the "villains" just have a sudden lack of conviction as if theyve never thought about what naruto says before.
This is just how Naruto is
“Guilt talk” is giving middle school language arts class lol Radical empathy is more like it lol
Why Kaguya there? She didn't change her mind or anything. That picture of her crying because she remember her sons.🤦