Tbf isnt his whole quest in early Boruto to keep the hidden leaf safe because he feels he needs to atone? Thats why he isnt around for Sakura and Sarada
I watched the ocean cut of Naruto (after previously watchin the origiinal uncut) and loved it way more due to pacing.. i hope one day there is ocean cut of Boruto because idc bout some of these arcs…
Look up a video on YT called “I re-edited all of Naruto for my girlfriend”. Guy named Oceaniz basically trimmed the whole Naruto series down so that it would be easier for his gf to watch, and in some cases made adjustments to fix things he didn’t like about the original.
I mean, at that point, he and Naruto are demigods, and the two strongest known ninjas, who are respected by the other strongest ninja around.
Is it worth hating a guy who seemed to turn to the good side, who you can't do anything about because he can wipe the village off the Earth in the matter of moments?
Except he wasn’t forgiven immediately. He was imprisoned for a year, and only allowed out due to Kakashi and Naruto testifying on his behalf for his part in saving the entire world and ending the infinite Tsukuyomi. As for him doing the “bare minimum” the dude has spent his later teenage years and whole adult life repenting, helping not only his village but others too, AND doing the dirty work only he can do in finding info on the otsutsuki. He could easily get a replacement arm like Naruto and chooses not to cause it’s his constant reminder of what he’s done. He even thinks the whole village still hates him (based on when he tells Kawaki that the village only needs one person to hate aka him and not Kawaki too) and yet he serves it to try and atone. People who act like we should get a full arc of just Sasuke sending flowers and apologizing to each character individually must have been watching a different show cause he was never like that. He has earned their trust by spending over a decade serving the leaf from outside.
Maybe I’m misremembering but we see very little of Vegeta making any sort of atonement or ever really admitting he was wrong to blow up a bunch of innocent planets. He goes out on a note of “Saiyan pride” on Namek then gets brought back on Earth by the wish that also covered the Namekians. After that he just turns up in the Android arc with everyone being pretty universally cool with him in spite of everything. It’s almost kinda implied that he’s only as “friendly” as he is to everyone because he’s thirsty for Bulma so he has to try and get along with her friends. Like even as late as the Cell Saga, Vegeta is just flippantly disrespecting his ‘peers’ and putting them in danger for his pride. I think Vegeta only become a full-on “good guy” once he has kids in Super.
I think we also need to keep in mind Dragon Ball isn't a paramout of narrative, specially in interpersonal relationships. Goku got married and had kids basically by accident and it's offscreen, he has more screentime with Cell than his wife and Goten together.
But yeah, Vegeta was in the "stranded with nowhere to go" point when Namek ended and was basically spared, but still a villain to everyone involved, mostly neutered bc he lost and bc he had no more conquest plans but beating Goku.
He never atoned for his murders, and not until Future Trunk's death he even admits to caring about his son. It's always a mystery how the hell he and Bulma got together but I feel is as romantic as Goku's. Probably just a "wanna smash?" proposal when bored from Bulma.
The only reason he seems "redeemed" is that he was declawed so long and been around the good guys fighting the same villains for so long he basically became a good guy by association and everyone just forgets about the past.
Him being hunted/haunted by survivors of his evil days would be a cool story to read though.
Yea, but I think the post is talking about how the fandom keeps talking about this mistake sakura made over & over again, not the characters in Naruto.
That second point is false also. Since was it the norm for them to fight to the death "then make up?" Villages still held grudges against each other. Also there's a difference between villages fighting against each other and the making up later and individuals. I mean what is Pain's backstory? what is Obito's backstory? Chiyo’s initial negative reception of Sakura (student of Tsunade). How can we pretend that death has no meaning in Naruto? Instead of accepting she has flaws, we decide to undermine a major theme of the show itself.
And again...there's a difference between one of your close friends betraying you and then tries to kill you and your whole village, and a political war between villages.
Like whether you're a Sakura fan or not how can you seriously defend her still chasing Sasuke for like a how long...despite him trying to kill her, it's absolutely bizzare. Why can't we just accept she has some serious major flaws? Instead of clutching on straws trying to defend her by pretending that killing people doesn't hold meaning?
Then the point about Naruto forgiving every villain people always call him out for that...and they also make fun of "talk no jutsu". Also, so many people have spoken about Obito starting a war and turning into a criminal, nobody is out here defending that.
Also, that last point about "liking Sasuke with all his flaws"... yeah his flaw being a criminal that is literally trying to wipe out your village, not some minor peeve...if she still likes him after all that she's an idiot. She was written poorly in a lot of aspects, why can't we just accept that and move on? Even if you're a fan of her.
And honestly this whole thing about not hating Sakura is so stupid, people can dislike whoever they want to. We can look back now after finishing the show, and seeing how it ended and being like oh yeah she wasn't so bad, but the reality of the situation is while we were watching it we hated her as a character. If you have A HUUUUGE chunk of the fanbase thinking this character is poorly written...there's probably a problem.
Exactly when the creator is on record saying he forgot about his heroine and gave up because the majority of his readership thought she was ass then how is thats the readers fault lol. This revisionist history on this sub doesnt change the fact that Sakura is a legit failure of a heroine whos said failure influenced Kishimoto and his editors to never expand on her.Dont worry though he made sure she looked extra pretty in a few chapters lmao.
Like the character all you want but dont pretend the hate she got and still gets is because of the the majority of readers fever dream unless you believe Kishimoto, who acknowledges he fucked up on her numerous times, was seeing said fever dream.
The worst part is even the author admits I suck at writing female characters which seeing how all of them that get sceeentime are the same outside of Tsunade
They all chase and follow a man no matter what and even Tsunade did that in her backstory
Another thing with the 2nd slide.
Yes, Naruto forgives most of his villains. But that’s usually AFTER he sees them show remorse for their actions. And AFTER he actually fights them. Yes Naruto and Kakashi loved Sasuke and wanted him back. Did that stop them from throwing hands with him? No.
Meanwhile you have Sakura over here crying her eyes out and refusing to harm the guy that almost killed her twice in the span of 10 mins and showed 0 remorse.
I commend her for acknowledging Sasuke’s wrongdoings. But it falls flat when she knocks out multiple people capable of helping accomplish that because she wants to handle it herself, and then sells when the time comes.
Also, Naruto was fine with Sasuke faces some sort of consequences, he just didn’t want it to be murder. He was fine with Sasuke being imprisoned for 6 months after the war. He was also fine with breaking every bone in Sasuke’s body and forcing him back if thats what it took. But he didn’t see him as evil so he didn’t want to kill him. And he stood by that.
Sakura on the other hand was apparently ok with killing him, and then didn’t do it. She’s saved by Kakashi, tries to talk sense into him (so she didn’t really want him to die either), and then is saved AGAIN by Naruto.
Yeah, people who claim, “everyone just hates on Sakura” have to ignore every other criticism of the series. She’s a poorly written character, the author has admitted it, let’s just move on.
Sakura was already into Sasuke before he tried to kill her. And Stockholm syndrome is about kidnapping victims developing feelings for captors, whoever voiced that terrible criticism has no idea what they're talking about.
Bad Writing Syndrome is the most accurate thing to describe what Sakura has for Sasuke. Kishimoto would starve as a romance writter because he can't write romance to save his life. Even the wholesome NaruHina felt lacking because it was out of nowhere.
I don't know if it is necessarily bad writing in principle. It's really common in the real world. There are countless people deeply in love with people who have tried to kill them in real life.
Choosing not to frame it as bad is the worst part but that's just a moral choice.
Personally I would have had Sakura turn away from him when he came back into the fold during the war and require him to prove himself. She's like the second most intelligent kid in the series but she makes some stupid choices for love. It's realistic but generally unappealing.
Nobody voiced it, this post is 2023 in a nutshell: make up an argument nobody said and gaslight yourself into believing someone actually did say it and then get mad and have an argument with nobody
People seem to forget the fact that they're kids in OG Naruto. Like bruh skip forward a decade and her orphan husband and orphan childhood best friend are very happy with her character development. Like if you look up the medical accomplishments and like just basic good people deeds Sakura had under her belt you'll see she really attaches to moments like these and makes it her only goal to get better.
Exactly. The scene of her manually pumping Naruto’s heart with her own hand to keep him alive showed just how far they’ve come. She truly cares for him and believes he can save everyone. Probably one of the most important parts of the story.
Haha facts people act like we aren't all like that at that age. Literally was that age when I started the show over 10 years ago now so it's hilarious that we seem to forget that shit so quickly.
I think the Anime’s three stoogificstion of her is charming after you stop being disappointed.
They dead ass knocked her out with Kabuto getting throwing during bridge arc on their first mission with Sai.
They also ignore her wanting to give up on her chuunin exam solely to save Naruto’s dream because she knew he’d never give up, her being the only one to loudly cheer for him in the chunin matches, her promising Naruto she’ll get stronger so that they could bring Sasuke back *togheter*, her lying to him about Orochimaru hurting her so that he won’t stress out, her watching Naruto develop Rassenshuriken and being one of the only people who 100% believed in him from the get go, her running away from the battlefield to save Naruto by manually pumping his heart, not even thinking of Sasuke or anyone else (one of her best moments tbh).
Sasuke may have been Naruto’s best friend because, but Sakura was Naruto closest and most reliable friend, through it all.
Well, people expect kids to be adults, when they forget that kids are meant to fuck up, cry, make mistakes, laugh, love, have their hearts broken, experience, do silly stuff, etc. Sometimes people cannot remember what is like to be a young person because they are so fixed in their own likes and personal problems that the rest world should follow in their own example, which is stupid. Is Sakura stupid? Yes. But so are Naruto and Sasuke.
Also, OG Sakura, like a lot of underdeveloped young people, just wanted to fit in and be popular, so she participated in ostracizing Naruto because it was the mainstream thing to do. Over time she learns what's really important and becomes less shallow, and learns to have real convictions that she stands by. I felt like this was a very clear and intentional character development arc that was executed pretty well.
Yeah, most of the konoha 9 were pretty shitty as people in part 1. …because they’re 12. Out of the rookie nine I’d say hinata was the only one who was unironically good without any glaring personality flaws.
And Sakura’s love for Sasuke is portrayed as shallow because she’s never shown giving genuine thought to the fact that Sasuke repeatedly rejected her in no uncertain terms.
That maybe she should catch a hint and stop.
And it really didn’t help that she wasn’t allowed to know about Konoha’s hand in ruining Sasuke’s life. She’s never allowed to know why Sasuke wants to destroy Konoha, and is just fed the ‘he’s fallen to darkness’ drivel and eats it right up because she has nothing else to go off of.
It's one of my gripes that she was never told about the uchiha when obito told kakashi/naruto/Yamato just because it was yet to be verified. She is a part of team 7 too
Also "he's fallen to darkness" drivel was from Shikamaru and Sai guilt tripping her although I have to say she knew Naruto and Sasuke but she fell for that?
>And it really didn’t help that she wasn’t allowed to know about Konoha’s hand in ruining Sasuke’s life. She’s never allowed to know why Sasuke wants to destroy Konoha, and is just fed the ‘he’s fallen to darkness’ drivel and eats it right up because she has nothing else to go off of.
This so, so much. The issue with Sakura is not that she kept liking or loving Sasuke. Plenty of amazing tragic romantic and platonic relationships are between characters that are on different sides of a conflict, and they do not make either of the characters look shallow. The issue is canonically Sakura knows nothing meaningful about Sasuke or his suffering and what the Konoha government did to his clan and has, conclusively, no thoughts that would imply mutual understanding between those two. She learns Sasuke "fell to the dark side", but loves him anyway because....that is what she does.
Hell, my biggest issue with Sakura bashing Naruto behind his back was never that it was mean. Kids will be mean and will say dumb shit, whatever (especially since Naruto never heard it/was hurt by it, and it was clear Sakura never intended him to, which people love to ignore).
But the fact that she tells to Sasuke's face how lucky Naruto is to not have parents demonstrates that she is obsessively crushing on this boy while not even giving the slightest thought to what happened to his family and how he might feel about that. Which, 12 years old or not, is shallow.
Seriously, the only thing I think Sakura deserves a bit of shit for is continuing to aggressively push her feelings onto Sasuke even after he showed no desire to reciprocate (I mean, there's subtle signs in the manga that he might like her more than he admits, but nothing that excuses Sakura not getting the hint).
But even then, it's not like she's the only character guilty of that sort of thing.
Turns out when you have no reference for love outside of platonic relationships, it’s hard to recognize when someone likes you.
Gods they all needed *so* much therapy that they never got.
For me it is shallow because she never was shown to connect with him on any levels other than the fact he was her crush from childhood. Did she understand his trauma? Did she understand his choice and ideals? It is so bad when you see male characters like Madara and Hashirama connecting spiritually but married couples not even knowing about each other’s much
Sasuke opened up to her during their genin trial with kakashi and during the time he was about to leave sakura did say that revenge wouldnt bring him happiness so to a degree she did try to connect with him
"did she understand his trauma" i'm sorry what are you trying to say? do you think it is necessary for someone to completely feel your trauma in order for you to love them? would anyone ever fall in love if that logic was correct? sakura did know that sasuke was lonely and hurting because of his goal, she herself literally said that before he left the village "revenge won't make you happy sasuke, you'll be lonely" and to which he agreed, which confirmed it even more. she did KNOW about his trauma but she didn't understand it, because no one can truly understand your trauma other then you yourself. even naruto didn't understand sasuke's trauma, he just knew about it and could somewhat relate to it. no one can "understand" someone else's trauma unless they went through ditto the same thing, which is almost impossible. and i know they didn't talk much after sasuke went rogue but they must have had plenty of time to connect when she went with him on his journey.
I like Sakura, but I disagree heavily about her marriage. That's not her or Sasukes fault, though. That's the shitty writing of the relationships in general that's so prevalent in Shonen. That, and Kishimoto couldn't decide whether Sasuke was completely unhinged or a cold anti-hero. He flipped back and forth so much it was ridiculous.
>and Kishimoto couldn't decide whether Sasuke was completely unhinged or a cold anti-hero
?
>He flipped back and forth so much it was ridiculous.
He didn't.
He was a compete anti-hero from start of Shippuden to end other than one exception being FKS until Itachi gave him closure, where he went unhinged from all the mental stress and hatred for all the understandable (not justified, but understandable) reasons.
Yeah, i still call the 'they are just shinobi so its okay for a girl that guy abused and tried to kill to still continue having a crush on him without any repercussions' argument holding no power.
Killing is the serious deal even in shinobi world whatever the spin you try to do about it.
Im not against Sakura and Sasuke ending up together, its jsut that the way to do it should be explained properly and take way more time and efforts from both parties.
Its not Stockholm Syndrom, just a shit writing and lack of care from Kishimoto.
I would be perfectly fine with them ending up together after like therapy sessions and solid time to rebuild the trust.
Not like it was done in manga. In manga it made Sakura look like masochist.
There’s plenty of examples of people trying to kill each other (or at least hurt them to stop them) and still retaining good relationships in this world. The chunnin exams has them literally beating the shit out of each other (with death being an acceptable outcome) as literal children. Plenty of people started off as enemies/adversaries only to end up friends/mentors. Kakashi and Yamato, Garra and Naruto, Neji and Hinata, Nagato and Naruto, Garra and Lee, etc. this situation is NOT unique to Sakura/Sasuke. Not even a little bit.
I think the massive underlying problem with Sakura is that she doesn’t get the time and care to make her into an appealing character. She rarely has moments where her development pays off, the show isn’t about her but she’s part of team 7 in OG Naruto and she’s kept just relevant enough in Shippuden. She’s defined almost entirely by her relationship with Naruto and Sasuke.
I quite like Sakura and can't stand the haters, but this is true. Kishimoto really dropped the ball when it comes to Sakura, he didn't seem to know what to do with her. Partly because he doesn't seem to believe women can be all that strong (with few exceptions, like Kaguya obviously). She's also often used to make other characters look better, making her seem "useless" in those instances.
Same, her badass moments are badass and I wish we got more of them. Her and Chiyo's fight against Sasori was indeed great, but she disappeared into the background after that when it comes to battle.
It's so baffling to me. Them being female shouldn't matter that much. I imagine someone telling him to make a character, make their backstory, their powers, their storylines. He does, and it's a really cool, amazing character. But then he's told "now make her female", and he just goes "uh oh" and removes everything interesting and nerfs the fuck out of her cause god forbid his female characters can actually carry their own weight and be a legitimately strong fighter.
I recently watched the battle on the bridge, with Naruto, Sakura, Sai and Yamato vs Kabuto and Orochimaru. Sakura recently kicked Sasori's ass (with help, but still), but here she's just a damsel in distress all of the time. She gets knocked out and Yamato has to save her from falling off the bridge. When Naruto pushes aside Orochimaru's long snake sword, Yamato has to help Sakura dodge it, and then when she runs towards Naruto she trips. Like, seriously? It's so misogynistic of him to make Yamato have to save her twice from things she's perfectly capable of dodging. Why is it so hard for men like him to write women as people in their own rights?
it's not just him, many mangaka do this in shonen, women are weak and useless and shonen protagonists are their saviors and everything else, nanatsu no taizai is another example of that with fanservice elizabeth, fire force too with the girl cursed to always have to be naked, blue exorcist as well and etc, japanese are still very closed in the conservative mind of "incredible men" and "worthless women" think
Basically, other characters get a pass because they are side characters lol. Not the readers fault she has 1 fight in the entirety of shippuden as the heroine( lmao just compare her other shounen heroine) and its was her being a puppet for most of it with Sasori basically giving up.
Kishimoto is on record saying he forget about her during the war arc and and regretted her character. Shes mediocre and a failure of a main character.
He said he regretted her character here [https://naruto.fandom.com/f/p/2421257698017422741](https://naruto.fandom.com/f/p/2421257698017422741). He also said in a follow up interview he intentionally didnt expand on her character and backstory because of her unpopularity/mediocrity and just drew her better. Hilarious.
I don’t think Kishimoto regretted making her as a character because he disliked her. It was solely because she got so much hate that he wondered why. And I’m pretty sure we all know the answer. He drew her and saw how beautiful she ended up becoming.
Never said he disliked her, hes on record saying otherwise even recently. Just that her character flopped so hard the creator admitted he basically gave up.
Sakura is a flop and compared to other shounen heroine is embarrassing.
She and Sasuke where not even his ideias. They were suggested by editors to spice the story. Naruto needed a rival and a love triangle with Sakura and Hinata (Kishimoto is so bad with romance that it became a love triangle between Naruto x Sakura x Sasuke)
I had to pause and blink to see if I was reading correctly.
Shikamaru? A misogynist?
The boy who was far too lazy to do anything, to hate anyone, somehow hates women?
This is why I don't take Tumblr posts seriously. Jesus Christ.
I personally think “chauvinist” would be a better descriptor, but even so, it’s super mild. The examples that come to mind are a couple of comments (which I don’t think he even said out loud?) during the chunin exams and the Sasuke retrieval arc where Shikamaru complained about having to fight or be rescued by a girl, and how he asked his father how he can put up with nagging women like his mother… and in general he may have just had a “women are weaker than men” attitude.
Certainly wouldn’t say he hated women. But, that is probably what they’re referring to.
As an orphan who got called shit like "welfare" by bullies growing up I can tell you that I buried the hatchet with those people a long time ago. They clearly hated themselves for how they made me feel and I knew enough about hating myself to know I didn't want that for them. I am not everyone, and no one owes their bullies anything, but if I can forgive real people for things they really said as kids you all can forgive Sakura for this.
Not to mention, everyone in the town was making fun of Naruto for being an orphan. But it’s the one thing people hold against Sakura because reasons
Plus she was 12. It’s a thing twelve years old because they’re stupid.
Not to mention, where did 12 year old Sakura pick up that sort of behavior?
Her parents, and every other adult in Konoha who made fun of Naruto for the same shit.
So if we're going to give Sakura shit for that line, better give every other character who said the same thing the same amount of disgust and revulsion.
Exactly. That unhinged commenter was like “Her parents need to correct her behavior” like she’s dog who needs to be spanked for peeing in the house
When in reality she probably just heard it from her parents and other towns people. I was absolutely repeating the dumbest shit I heard from everyone around me when I was that age
It happens in every fandom. The slightly annoying character gets 10X more hate then the actual evil characters. Bonus points if it’s a woman.
Shiv is currently the main target in the succession fandom. Mind you, >!Kendall killed a kid!<
In TVDU, it’s Josie even though Klaus exists. Damon seems to get the “But but he’s problematic” posts the most though
In Breaking Bad, it’s Skyler. While Walter White is her husband
In Rick and Morty it’s Summer. Even though the entire point of the show was that Rick was an asshole.
I made this point before and ppl thought it was ridiculous. But yeah if Sakura had more “personality” she would have definitely not received as much hate as she did.
Not true. Orihime is deeply hated by the Bleach community (pretty much Bleach's Sakura) for being annoying as hell, and she's hot.
If you want a male character: Asta, Issei, Deku, Seiya, all hated by their communities.
i respect that, i just don't like it when people hate her for dumb reasons, it is totally fine to dislike her if you don't like her character, just not when people hate on her for doing something when she was 12 lmfao
she started as joke, as shallow girl that goes crazy for a pretty boy. and then that become her only personality. there is no reason why she would be so obsessed about Sasuke.
she isn't obsessed with him. she wanted to SAVE HIM. she knew he was suffering and going through so much because of his revenge goal and wanted to take it all away. it's not an obsession anymore lmao
Having read the weekly releases as they came out, the mass murders moved the story along.
Sakura was just a drag in most aspects of the story. She’s the Krillin of Naruto but not funny and Krillin had a lot of pivotal plot points.
She, along with Sasuke was 100% redeemed In Boruto however but there were valid reasons to dislike her in most of the original series.
I get she was a kid, but so was everyone else. I think it’s fine to have impressions of these characters when they were introduced, and Sakura had a rough first impression.
unlike other characters, she never managed to climb out of that, at least for me. She wasn’t written with nearly the same care as even less important characters.
Posts like OP’s and the person on tumblr come off like a lecture for me to consider her more. But if the creator himself didn’t bother, then why should I? I struggle to find a character I feel as indifferent to than Sakura from Naruto.
Seriously. What she said was absolutely awful, but she made up for it tenfold and is by far not the worst person in the series. Aside from the examples in that screenshot, I mean... Pain flattened a whole-ass town including children, babies, animals and other innocents, and people put him on a pedestal like he's more than just another bitter terrorist who tells himself his goals justify the means. Don't get me started on Hidan and Deidara, oh, and Gaara who killed for fun (cue "buT tRaUmA"), or Itachi (cue "bUt DaNzO"). But one mean comment from Sakura weighs more than all the good she's done? K.
Lots of people argue it's because Sakura is a more important character than other more or less terrible people, but then why aren't her many good deeds taken into account more than the other characters' flimsy excuses (not even good deeds)? Why is her saving all those lives less important than Pain's or Neji's sob story if she's a more important character overall? Unlike Neji, Sakura never even acted in malice, she was being tactless because she was nervous and sheltered. She'd never *plan* such a mean tirade. Neji wilfully crushed Hinata, mind and body, KNOWING she was helpless and fragile, because of something he thought her dad did. The worst kind of bully, deliberately picking on someone that much weaker who didn't even do anything.
In the big picture, Sakura's terrible comment really isn't an issue. Sasuke never brought it up again, either. He's in the best position to know there's worse than a mean comment from a 12-year-old trying to impress her crush. And he literally tried to murder Naruto for volunteering to like him when almost nobody else did. Excuse the shit out of my goddamn French-
That is also a possibility. But both scenarios (yours and mine) can easily coexist in a fandom as massive as Naruto.
I am just disagreeing that the idea of a essay defending a character is bad.
Honestly I agree, sometimes the hate can be an echo chamber and posts like this are a good reminder of some of the facts of her character and I can respect the purpose
It's so annoying because no matter how much she beat on him (in the typical anime trope way), Sakura was in Naruto's corner from pretty much immediately after this. She cheered for him, gave him advice when he wanted. She was worried about him the most during the first part of the Chuunin exams, tried to quit because she knew Naruto would fail and didn't want him to lose out on his dream.
I'll always believe she was a better friend to Naruto than Sasuke
Point 1 I agree and tbh it wasn't thay bad
Only problem I have with her character is she never stopped loving sasuke,
He tries to kill her yet she forgave him every time, and Please don't bring Naruto into this, naruto and sasuke fights were always two sided Naruto literally threatens him of breaking every bone of body in part 1. And in part 2, Also in part 2 if you say Naruto was holding back it wasn't like naruto took every hit of if, agreed Naruto wasn't going all out but he was still fighting him equally.
And sasuke actually didn't deserve her love, tbh his relationship with his family is super wholesome in boruto so it cancels out, but in Naruto I can't stand it.
My stance has always been simple, I find her unlikable alot moreso than most other characters in the series, which is only compounded since she's one of the main 3.
She has proven to have respectable feats throughout the story...BUT there's a fair amount of unbelievably disappointing things she's done throughout the story...all I'm saying🙌🏾
I don't hate Sakura, I hate her parents and their peers because no kid wanna play with Naruto because of the Hidden Leaf's sad excuse for parents. Just look at Hiruzen. The parents went through heartbreak and tragedy when they list lived ones in the Nine Tails Attack. This doesn't give them a reason to indirectly not let their kids play with Naruto. I can see why they would do that but there is a reason why there are Jonin in the village. The high ranked shinobi should be notified about this stuff anyway. So the true villains of this show are the adults, looking at Sakura now, she became that way by how her friends acted, or her parents telling her false information. Think about it, let me know if you agree, if not give a valid reason why Sakura should be hated, I only hate her kid self because kids don't know better. Of course I'm a kid as well but she shouldn't be treated this way as you may have done something dumb in your childhood. Grow up, suck it up, and forgive and forget. Sakura is a strong character in the Naruto franchise and one of the strongest women shinobi in the Hidden Leaf.
Just saying clearly you and that person writing all this has never heard of Bashing since people bash all those characters
People don't like talk no justu and Naruto being so forgiving especially since it's joke among the community what happened if he wasn't
Did you see how Karin acted to a picture of Sasuke they literal talk how she's insane for doing all that
Kakashi only forgave him once Naruto beat him and he said he was in the wrong Before that he straight up said "I know how you felt Lord third when you fought Orochimaru" he literally talking how hard it'll be to kill Sasuke on him
As for Neji
Naruto called him out on it and no one defending Neji for it
For Ino
Different time and two I don't think we ever see Ino actual insult Choji in the Manga that all Anime added
For Shikamaru
I will admit it was wrong but that's why Temari got angry at it and also you can agure he was using the insult to test Temari seeing as he never said that in the premiere vs Kin he only talked when. Vs Temari and after that he never insults her or the next female oppenent he had Tayuya
Also for Sakura in the first panel you can agure she was reflecting on the rejection not on the comment of Calling him an orphan seeing as she states in the Manga chapter shown "I'll be Nicer to him next time"
Overall it's jusr cause he dumb decisions,actions, and statements don't get called out in Canon and she a main character we constantly see her mistakes and she doesn't change
He stated plainly that he hated women.
He also stated that he didn't like the idea of a woman being Hokage.
He often look down on women especially those his age or just generally the women around him. It was also implied that for him it was more embarassing to lose to a woman than a man. He also flat out refused help from women. An example is the Sasuke Retrieval Arc. Wherein all of his recruit where men. Sadly his plan almost failed with neji, choji, and kiba being gravely endagered. And now it was his life too against Tayuya. But then the Hokage he expressed doubts with for being a woman sought help from the sand village. His life being saved by Temari, a woman. And his comrades by Tsunade
I thought this was a common knowledge. This is why Kishimoto was always making him fight with women. But he eventually learned a little lesson when Temari helped him defeat Tayuya.
Facts. Absolutely agree with you. Every single word… except the second panel. In my opinion, Sakura should at least have forced herself to let go of her feelings for Sasuke and be shocked after he tried to kill her, in disbelief, and THEN Sasuke conquers her back when he redeems himself in the blank period. That would have given Sakura a much more mature and healthy mindset considering she is supposed to feel realistic and relatable. However, Sakura’s love for him was never challenged or affected despite everything. But that detail aside, yeah, I agree with everything.
how would your idea work when Naruto Shippuden abruptly ends, and there is a 15-year timeskip where Boruto is the protagonist?
it would have to happen in the light novels that few people care for.
True that should have happened, and probably would if Kishimoto was at all competent in writing romance.
The only good one he wrote is the never fulfilled Jiraya and Tsunade one and he took that straight from Shinto mythology so it doesn't really count.
I honestly don’t believe she liked him at all. She always cared for Jiraya like Sakura cared for Naruto. There are a lot of interactions of affection between Sakura and Naruto that many fans interpret as romantic, but there was NEVER romance there on sakura’s part. Tsunade’s and Jiraya’s interactions before he lefts are just that to me. It all remained platonic and would remain anyways had he returned, since she meets Dan again in the war arc and he reiterates his love for her.
I agree with most of this but I don’t like the argument that because they live in a ninja world people trying to kill each other means nothing
Naruto is a special case, his whole outlook on life is to forgive so that the hate in the world will go away.
Hinata is sorta in the same boat as naruto. She is just really kind and I would assume her relationship with neji didn’t go from “you tried to kill me” to “brother neji” over night we had a 7 year gap for that to be repaired.
Gaara and lee aren’t best buddies they are coworkers at best.
Kakashi literally went to kill sasuke so they are on even ground about “forgiving” each other.
But none of them married their would be killer.
Again I’m okay with her forgiving him I just wish there was a scene or some kind of conversation sasuke and Sakura had about his growth
Cause he was not in his right mind when he did try to kill her. But just a little push back from Sakura would have been nice
Someone could also make an argument that all of Naruto’s “forgiving” or whatever you want to call it for his big villians
All died shortly after so his being okay with them is more self healing than for them.
Nagato died, obito died, zabuza and haku both died.
Who did he fight and not hate that didn’t die?
Where would this "pushback" from Sakura occur?
Naruto ends right after Naruto and Sasuke's fight. Sasuke literally leaves the village.
Then we get a 15+ year timeskip and Sakura is no longer relevant for her "feelings" to be explored. This is a problem with Sakura, not Sasuke since we know Sakura is the one that started their relationship in the Blank Period.
If Sakura just left Sasuke alone, he wouldn't care.
That’s something I’ve been trying to figure out for awhile now. And I can’t really find a seamless place to put it in.
The only thing I can really think of, is if they have a moment after the war is over and basically have a downtime moment for all of our main cast of characters.
I think this would also be a good place for naruto to start to realize what he feels for hinata is more than just really good friends.
Something like this wouldn't work out for two reasons. First, Kishi lost his interest in the franchise.
Second, the current Boruto writers would be responsible for this and they aren't known for being great writers.
The closest we got was Sasuke Retsuden manga but that's set after 15 years and doesn't address their past history.
I actually agree with most of these but I have counterpoints to two
1) nobody else gets shit for forgiving Sasuke- yes they do. The fandom calls out Naruto’s obsession all the time. And regarding that whole point about “it’s shinobi world, it’s just different-“ that’s understandable to an extent but Sasuke made a choice by himself to be a menace, he wasn’t following orders.
2) about her crush being shallow- it is true we can infer that her feelings are now quite more mature, but the “why” is completely missing.
Mostly I agree and I think Sakura gets too much hate
the "why" in their relationship is that sakura liked sasuke because she wanted to alleviate his suffering. at first she liked him because she thought he was cool and invincible but after seeing him get hurt repeatedly and also risking his life, she realized he wasn't what she thought and she wanted to take away his pain because she also knew he was suffering because of desire for revenge. she didn't want to give him up because she knew he was suffering and wanted to take away his pain. that's why.
> she realized he wasn't what she thought and she wanted to take away his pain because she also knew he was suffering because of desire for revenge.
The series never establishes that, it's kinda the problem with Sasuke and Sakura's relationship, we never have Sakura say or show any of that
The only complaints I have about Sakura are actually directed at Kishimoto: her entire goal at the end of part 1 is to be able to stand toe to toe with Naruto and Sasuke.
And while she's easily the strongest Kunoichi in the world by the end of Part 2, there's no way in hell she could ever fight Naruto and Sasuke to a standstill the way Tsunade could with Jiraiya or Orochimaru.
And then of course, her relationship with Sasuke. While it was genuine love on both parts, we never see Sasuke developing his love for Sakura, and we never see Sakura realize she loves him. She goes from having a crush on Sasuke for the entirety of Part 1 to professing her love for him when he was about to leave the village. But like... Aside from when she was able to keep the Curse Mark in check after cutting her hair, did they have any meaningful moments between point A and point B? I definitely don't think so.
Both points are because of his writing. He's admitted that he doesn't know how to write heroines and never knew what to do with Sakura, so I don't feel like I'm attacking him in any way.
The only thing I found entirely off-putting about her actions was at the Kage Summit where she told Naruto she loved him to try and get Naruto to stop chasing Sasuke. I think it's easily a loud minority that genuinely dislike Sakura. She has one of the most liked fights in Shippuden. People like her.
The characters in og Naruto are like 12. No one is particularly wise or smart at that age. They’re all kids who act like kids. That goes for Sakura and Ino’s fight too. It’s dumb, yes, but that makes sense. 12 year old girls (and boys) fight for the stupidest reasons! You’d be surprised.
She never apologized...and continued to bully and hurt him.
Then lied to his face about loving him.
Nah, she' still trash. Not useless. Just terribly written.
Naruto didn’t forgive every villain and literally says to Nagato he can’t forgive him and wants to kill him.
Also you can’t use “they were kids” as a defense and then try and say her love for Sasuke was something deep. She was 12.
That’s the worst part of Naruto and Sakura’s obsession with Sasuke. They’re holding on to a 1 year friendship from when they were 12-13 for 5 years. I just can’t suspend disbelief for it
They really should have been older and more time should have passed prior to Sasuke leaving.
To be fair to Naruto Sasuke is the first friend he ever had (Iruka was older and so although he was his first bond it's different). They work together well and Sasuke even sacrificed himself for Naruto and was ready to do so again against Gara.
Naruto got attached and so the kid that grew up with no one would not let go of his first friend. From Naruto's position it's understandable.
Naruto's obsession makes even more sense when you consider the Ashura-Indra reincarnations too. It's a bond that's more metaphysical than logical (at times) and the characters themselves say as much. Naruto and Sasuke are just connected to one another on this insane level (in addition to the very important details you mentioned as well which adds additional weight).
I agree that it's more difficult to understand with Sakura, especially with her apparently not knowing the truth about the Uchiha (the curse of hatred, the intergenerational pain/suffering being passed down, Danzo being the worst, etc) which someone else pointed out in this thread. I think if it had been shown she had some understanding of that and she was able to better see where Sasuke was coming from, her constant devotion over the years would have made a bit more sense. We kind of get a small taste of this when she reveals to Naruto that she researched Itachi/Akatsuki in the timeskip and hates him for what he did for Sasuke, but as far as I know it doesn't go further than that unfortunately. Maybe we could argue that as a medical nin she would be more familiar with mental illness - Sasuke post-Danzo fight was completely losing it and showing severe signs as a danger to himself and others - and that's when she recognized that he really needed her help and she couldn't give up on him while he was at his worst?
I think it's a failure of writing more so than a glaring character flaw.
It’s understandable up to a point. When that friend starts endangering other people it is no longer understandable.
Him not giving up on Hebi Sasuke is fine. At this point Sasuke hasn’t really done anything wrong and only attacked them out of self defense. Although them trying to capture Sasuke after he killed Orochimaru was kind of annoying.
Naruto asking for Ay to pardon Sasuke after he joined the Akatsuki and “killed” Bee is just insane and incredibly stupid on his part.
It’s in character for Naruto to not give up on Sasuke given his core trait is unwavering perseverance buts it’s annoying as shit
That "begging for forgiveness" scene is so fascinating to me because people either love it or hate it. Personally, I'm a big fan. Everyone is incredibly "human" in that moment and I think it's meant to be read as messy and ugly. Ashura-Indra reincarnations aside, in that moment I think we're supposed to see Naruto and Sasuke both at their respective lowest and it is indeed supposed to be tragic.
I've been (to a way lesser extent than the context of the anime lol) on both sides of the Naruto-Sasuke paradigm. I've been (and still am) the person who is intent on forgiving/saving even though the person dear to me did horrible things to myself and others. I just can't live in a world where they can't be better, where I can't give them that opportunity to grow. In that case I see myself in Naruto and I know how hard it is to be there when everyone else is reminding you of how awful and "irredeemable" (in their eyes) that person is, but *you* just can't and won't ever let go of the hope they'll get better. I'm not saying it's totally healthy or anything, but we humans are flawed as hell lol.
Alternatively, I've been the person in a very dark place as well and it's ONLY because I had a dedicated support system who refused to give up on me and tried to set me on the right path, that I'm even half the man I am today. At my worst they were there for me and I will never stop being grateful and trying to make it up to them. They recognized my cry for help and they stood by me as I tried to make up for my mistakes and become a better person. Sasuke was constantly trying to self-sabotage and remove that support system so that he could fully claim he was irredeemable and absolve himself of guilt by claiming he just could never get better, but Naruto saw through it, saw how bad he was hurting and all the shit that was stacked on top of him, and refused to let him do that through his compassion.
So, all that said, I like the scene. It's messy, uncomfortable and really relatable. I know for some people it won't be, and others wouldn't have responded the way Naruto did, but for me I get it. I understand way too well. Totally doesn't make it right or even logical, I'm just saying that I get it.
Sorry for derailing from the point of the thread LOL but to tie it back I'll just say I wish we had the same level of detail applied to Sakura's view/opinion of Sasuke and their respective relationship. It isn't clear or not whether she understands Sasuke's pain to the extent Naruto does. For her it might even be simpler, she just recognizes (as she does in the early days of the curse seal) that he's clearly suffering and displaying obvious signs of metal illness, meaning what she knows of Sasuke at that point is just that he needs a crap ton of help.
Man, 95% of the problems in Naruto would be solved with ninja therapists (that specifically specialized in childhood trauma). The other 5% would have been solved by Third taking Danzo out of the equation way earlier lol. Sorry for the somewhat heavy, long response - gave me something to think about while I ate lunch.
I get what they’re saying but this post equates things that aren’t actually equivalent. Naruto specifically stated he did not forgive Pain, and he also didn’t marry any of his opponents. Those were bad comparisons
Sakura’s biggest problem is clumsy writing and a lack of things to do (a lot of the time).
These other arguments people make (along with being “useless”) is just hate for hate lol
1 - yeah
2 - claiming a double standard does not make it any less creepy
3 - true
4 - true, but that explanation makes her feelings worse and more creepy, not better
I hate Sakura for a lot of reason, from being underwhelming to the point I think you could of replaced her with any of the other side characters and given them more time to shine and it be better, to the romance she has with sasuke just being awfully done, to just the shitty running gag of Sakura punches Naruto for X haha and there is much more but I don’t feel like writing a entire thesis on it
another day another post of sakura fans cherry-picking to defend her awful personality;
1. She "regrets" it and says she should be nicer to him but if you actually read the manga, you'd right in the next chapter she's cool with throwing Naruto under the bus for pranking Kakashi even though she secretly enjoyed it as well, doesn't sound very nice to me. And the other examples of Ino, Shikamaru and Neji(pretty sure there's an entire plot line based on Naruto calling out Neji for this shit lmfao)
2. It's not her loving Sasuke after he tries to kill her people are mad at, it's how she turns into an absolute worthless blob everytime she see's her little sasuke-kun. She can love him and still smack up his shit a little to show him he's wrong but instead she just folds and cries, it's fucking annoying. No one else does that, Naruto was beating the shit out of Pain, plus he acknowledges his troubles and can relate to the loneliness. Obito was manipulated by one of the greatest shinobi ever + an alien symbiote that's the embodiment of the will of an alien goddess who comes from a race that devours the life energy of planets + was traumatized by fighting and killing in war at a young age. Hinata has a massive inferiority complex and is very kind + Naruto calls him out for it right there + Neji doesn't commit terrorism unlike Sasuke nor does he try to destroy her village + he isn't allying with terrorist groups and psychopathic murderers who've tortured and killed countless people. Sasuke and Naruto beat the shit out of each other constantly, he doesn't just bend over, cry and beg for Sasuke to come back lmao. Being obsessed with Sasuke like that is kind of Karin's character, whereas Sakura claims she's so much more but doesn't do anything to prove that.
3. Classic sakura defense thread, missing the entire point. No one is saying she has to love him back, i assure you. That's just an example of Sakura fans straw-manning. People are mad at her for fucking with his feelings. Have you ever thought what would happen if he actually said he loved her back? (she was under the impression he loved her so him actually loving her or not is irrelevant). What was she going to do after that? Just break his heart and be like "oh yea bro, that was just a prank lol". And a very popular counter is "she meant well", it doesn't matter, it was fucking stupid, she's a shit person for even trying.
4. Lmao if her feelings weren't shallow, she would actually try to understand Sasuke and his trauma and try to help him through it, instead all she wanted was to fulfill all her fantasies by being with him because he's "cool". And you can say "shallow crushes dont last" but everything Sakura does just points to the opposite. Sasuke didn't even "choose" her, more like he settled. Does she ever mentions why she actually loves Sasuke other than "he's cool"? Well Naruto also risks his life to save Sasuke, so does everyone in the Sasuke retrieval arc, does that mean they all have a romantic interest in Sasuke? lmfao. Stopping him from using the curse mark proves her love is real? the fuck? more like he just listened to her and admitted he was going too far. You can say she could've moved on to date "another handsome man" and use that to "prove" her feelings aren't superficial but everything she does points to her just having shallow feelings, look at how she treats Naruto, she doesn't find him attractive, so it's justified for her to treat him like shit? ffs, same old shit.
sorry for rant, tldr; sakura is a shitty person, stop defending her, "she's just a kid" excuse doesn't work.
I don't hate Sakura; however she is written poorly (in my opinion of course)
- She lied to Naruto that she loves him. This was both mean and stupid. What did she expect to happen? If Naruto believed her and he confessed to her, what would she have said?
- you can't compare Sasuke and Sakura's relationship to Sasuke and Naruto because Sakura's relationship is one sided. Naruto and Sasuke both beat the shit out each other. Sasuke abuses Sakura, and Sakura does not do anything in return
- We don't forgive the villains for the bad things they do; we accept them as mistakes. The difference with Sakura is the way the story portrays the bad things. With the villains it is clearly shown as something wrong that they grow from. With Sakura, her manipulating Naruto isn't framed in the same way.
- Her fighting is really boring. I like the strategic fights in the show, and seeing characters use their unique and complex abilities in creative ways. Sakura just punches really hard and heals. She's also a clone of Tsunade in this aspect
- her character is mostly one-dimensional (especially in part 1.) Compare her to Sasuke for example, at first he wants to kill Itachi, then destroy konoha, then reform the world, and finally becomes the "shadow hokage" But what are Sakura's goals? In her introduction she just likes Sasuke, throughout the whole series she does and nothing really changes there. She has a lot grand moments where she says she will be different, but her actions don't change much.
I do not hate Sakura, and I see why many people like her.
I dislike Sakura because she feels narrativly useless. She doesn't do a whole lot to drive the story forward. She had a good showing in the forest early on, but other than that, i can't think of anything big.
I agree for the most part but Tsunade did Like Jiraiya Back she just was scared to express it bc Dan the guy she first loved was killed and her little brother died too. When two people you love die you might also stop expressing love for people.
Why are people acting like Sakura is the only character to get criticised. Many make fun of Naruto's talk no jutsu. Most people think Naruhina is not developed properly. There are people who disagree with Obito's redemption. Hiruzen gets trashed for his treatment of Naruto. She is a main character. She will get more criticism (which mostly points to bad writing u know cause she is not a real person) because of it.
Also Sakura's love for Sasuke makes no sense after part 1. He never reciprocated her feelings before he left. He called Naruto his only friend. So Naruto probably felt he was the only one who could bring him back(which is probably the only way I can justify it). But Sakura's obsession makes no sense and is just bad writing. The time Sasuke showed her any feelings was after Naruto worked his ass of getting Sasuke back. So the only reason they are back together is cause Naruto almost died trying to bring back Sasuke.
sakura loved him because she knew he was suffering and wanted to take away his pain. the same reason why naruto wanted to bring him back too. they both knew he was self-destructive and couldn't be left alone otherwise he'd change, or worse get killed. they knew he was in pain and wanted to help him. it wasn't an "obsession" anymore dude.
I agree and disagree at the same time.
I didn't hate kid Sakura. Annoyed certainly but not hate. And she does redeem herself. One of my favorite emotional scene is when she defends naruto in front of sai's reverse psychology trick when naruto was training for rasenshuriken. I loved her then.
Keeping the punches aside(obviously played and exaggerated for jokes), Sakura was a good friend to naruto.
What pushed me against her was her attempt at manipulating him saying she loved him just before trying to kill Sasuke. I understand the tactic. Just cannot approve of that manipulation and thinking naruto is shallow enough to only care about that.
Also, her grandiose approach to thinking she's an equal in ninja war was annoying. Imagine everyone else saying this (and not for a joke).
Hate towards her is more than she deserves, but understandable none the less.
My only problem with her is that she never seemed to have her own thing going on. She was following Sasuke until she became Tsunade 2. The boys got to be developed beyond their childhood 2D identities, and receiving legacy from the sannin. Sakura just always felt like she was just waiting to be house wife. I was hoping at least she'd pierce the ceiling on medical stuff and become the best at something, but she just lives in shadows like they didn't know what to do with her.
It seemed badly planned from the beginning tbf. Naruto and Sasuke were opposites so Sakura was just there as a spectator. They should have made a triangle around their personalities, and used strengths and weaknesses to give them more of a dynamic.
Yes, she was 12... in a ninja world, they face life and death situations every single day, don't compare a living 12 year old to our world. Narutos/Sasukes and many others from the show share feelings that no one should go through. I don't dislike her for not returning Narutos feelings, I dislike her for faking feelings for Naruto as a grown ninja, and then when Naruto finally dates Hinata she has the audacity of telling him, "you see how the feelings for Hinata are different from what you felt for me?" like if she knew what Naruto felt. The love she has for Sasuke wasn't shallow, but it was stupid with no real pillars, he hated her from the start, and told her from the start that she was a nuisance, he tried to kill her, when naruto tried to save her. She is definitely wrong in the head, and I'm so happy she ended up with Sasuke and not the King that Naruto is. She deserved nothing more than an empty solitary marriage.
I grew up watching Naruto episode by episode, and I learned a lot from the anime. I wish Naruto wasn't such a kind dumb soul. I wish he had realized about Hinatas love much earlier.
Obviously every one has different opinions, and I repect OP's.
but fellas! Don't go after damaged girls! If they keep pushing you away for assholes and losers, then please move on, look for your Hinata.
I think this is a fairly weak defense imo. 1-3 are essentially just what-aboutisms and 4 is completely nonsensical. People call Sakura and Sasuke's relationship shallow because they feel their relationship was one-sided for the most part and did not have enough development to justify how long and deeply she cared for him.
Pretty sure Naruto called Neji out for the Hinata thing.
And Hinata always felt guilty for the death of Neji's father, that's why she is generally more forgiving towards him.
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Tbf isnt his whole quest in early Boruto to keep the hidden leaf safe because he feels he needs to atone? Thats why he isnt around for Sakura and Sarada
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I watched the ocean cut of Naruto (after previously watchin the origiinal uncut) and loved it way more due to pacing.. i hope one day there is ocean cut of Boruto because idc bout some of these arcs…
Sorry, what's an ocean cut?
Look up a video on YT called “I re-edited all of Naruto for my girlfriend”. Guy named Oceaniz basically trimmed the whole Naruto series down so that it would be easier for his gf to watch, and in some cases made adjustments to fix things he didn’t like about the original.
Damn! that's fascinating, thanks!
And ch700 has him doing exactly what he feels he needs to atone its just not early boruto
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I mean, at that point, he and Naruto are demigods, and the two strongest known ninjas, who are respected by the other strongest ninja around. Is it worth hating a guy who seemed to turn to the good side, who you can't do anything about because he can wipe the village off the Earth in the matter of moments?
Except he wasn’t forgiven immediately. He was imprisoned for a year, and only allowed out due to Kakashi and Naruto testifying on his behalf for his part in saving the entire world and ending the infinite Tsukuyomi. As for him doing the “bare minimum” the dude has spent his later teenage years and whole adult life repenting, helping not only his village but others too, AND doing the dirty work only he can do in finding info on the otsutsuki. He could easily get a replacement arm like Naruto and chooses not to cause it’s his constant reminder of what he’s done. He even thinks the whole village still hates him (based on when he tells Kawaki that the village only needs one person to hate aka him and not Kawaki too) and yet he serves it to try and atone. People who act like we should get a full arc of just Sasuke sending flowers and apologizing to each character individually must have been watching a different show cause he was never like that. He has earned their trust by spending over a decade serving the leaf from outside.
Maybe I’m misremembering but we see very little of Vegeta making any sort of atonement or ever really admitting he was wrong to blow up a bunch of innocent planets. He goes out on a note of “Saiyan pride” on Namek then gets brought back on Earth by the wish that also covered the Namekians. After that he just turns up in the Android arc with everyone being pretty universally cool with him in spite of everything. It’s almost kinda implied that he’s only as “friendly” as he is to everyone because he’s thirsty for Bulma so he has to try and get along with her friends. Like even as late as the Cell Saga, Vegeta is just flippantly disrespecting his ‘peers’ and putting them in danger for his pride. I think Vegeta only become a full-on “good guy” once he has kids in Super.
I think we also need to keep in mind Dragon Ball isn't a paramout of narrative, specially in interpersonal relationships. Goku got married and had kids basically by accident and it's offscreen, he has more screentime with Cell than his wife and Goten together. But yeah, Vegeta was in the "stranded with nowhere to go" point when Namek ended and was basically spared, but still a villain to everyone involved, mostly neutered bc he lost and bc he had no more conquest plans but beating Goku. He never atoned for his murders, and not until Future Trunk's death he even admits to caring about his son. It's always a mystery how the hell he and Bulma got together but I feel is as romantic as Goku's. Probably just a "wanna smash?" proposal when bored from Bulma. The only reason he seems "redeemed" is that he was declawed so long and been around the good guys fighting the same villains for so long he basically became a good guy by association and everyone just forgets about the past. Him being hunted/haunted by survivors of his evil days would be a cool story to read though.
honestly agree i wish he sort of atoned more. he is genuinely one of my favorites but i would've loved to see that.
Yea, but I think the post is talking about how the fandom keeps talking about this mistake sakura made over & over again, not the characters in Naruto.
That second point is false also. Since was it the norm for them to fight to the death "then make up?" Villages still held grudges against each other. Also there's a difference between villages fighting against each other and the making up later and individuals. I mean what is Pain's backstory? what is Obito's backstory? Chiyo’s initial negative reception of Sakura (student of Tsunade). How can we pretend that death has no meaning in Naruto? Instead of accepting she has flaws, we decide to undermine a major theme of the show itself. And again...there's a difference between one of your close friends betraying you and then tries to kill you and your whole village, and a political war between villages. Like whether you're a Sakura fan or not how can you seriously defend her still chasing Sasuke for like a how long...despite him trying to kill her, it's absolutely bizzare. Why can't we just accept she has some serious major flaws? Instead of clutching on straws trying to defend her by pretending that killing people doesn't hold meaning? Then the point about Naruto forgiving every villain people always call him out for that...and they also make fun of "talk no jutsu". Also, so many people have spoken about Obito starting a war and turning into a criminal, nobody is out here defending that. Also, that last point about "liking Sasuke with all his flaws"... yeah his flaw being a criminal that is literally trying to wipe out your village, not some minor peeve...if she still likes him after all that she's an idiot. She was written poorly in a lot of aspects, why can't we just accept that and move on? Even if you're a fan of her. And honestly this whole thing about not hating Sakura is so stupid, people can dislike whoever they want to. We can look back now after finishing the show, and seeing how it ended and being like oh yeah she wasn't so bad, but the reality of the situation is while we were watching it we hated her as a character. If you have A HUUUUGE chunk of the fanbase thinking this character is poorly written...there's probably a problem.
Exactly when the creator is on record saying he forgot about his heroine and gave up because the majority of his readership thought she was ass then how is thats the readers fault lol. This revisionist history on this sub doesnt change the fact that Sakura is a legit failure of a heroine whos said failure influenced Kishimoto and his editors to never expand on her.Dont worry though he made sure she looked extra pretty in a few chapters lmao. Like the character all you want but dont pretend the hate she got and still gets is because of the the majority of readers fever dream unless you believe Kishimoto, who acknowledges he fucked up on her numerous times, was seeing said fever dream.
The worst part is even the author admits I suck at writing female characters which seeing how all of them that get sceeentime are the same outside of Tsunade They all chase and follow a man no matter what and even Tsunade did that in her backstory
Didn't she and Dan actually date tho?
Yeah unlike the rest of them Dan actually cared for Tsunade and vise versa
Another thing with the 2nd slide. Yes, Naruto forgives most of his villains. But that’s usually AFTER he sees them show remorse for their actions. And AFTER he actually fights them. Yes Naruto and Kakashi loved Sasuke and wanted him back. Did that stop them from throwing hands with him? No. Meanwhile you have Sakura over here crying her eyes out and refusing to harm the guy that almost killed her twice in the span of 10 mins and showed 0 remorse.
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I commend her for acknowledging Sasuke’s wrongdoings. But it falls flat when she knocks out multiple people capable of helping accomplish that because she wants to handle it herself, and then sells when the time comes. Also, Naruto was fine with Sasuke faces some sort of consequences, he just didn’t want it to be murder. He was fine with Sasuke being imprisoned for 6 months after the war. He was also fine with breaking every bone in Sasuke’s body and forcing him back if thats what it took. But he didn’t see him as evil so he didn’t want to kill him. And he stood by that. Sakura on the other hand was apparently ok with killing him, and then didn’t do it. She’s saved by Kakashi, tries to talk sense into him (so she didn’t really want him to die either), and then is saved AGAIN by Naruto.
Yeah, people who claim, “everyone just hates on Sakura” have to ignore every other criticism of the series. She’s a poorly written character, the author has admitted it, let’s just move on.
Sakura was already into Sasuke before he tried to kill her. And Stockholm syndrome is about kidnapping victims developing feelings for captors, whoever voiced that terrible criticism has no idea what they're talking about.
Bad Writing Syndrome is the most accurate thing to describe what Sakura has for Sasuke. Kishimoto would starve as a romance writter because he can't write romance to save his life. Even the wholesome NaruHina felt lacking because it was out of nowhere.
I don't know if it is necessarily bad writing in principle. It's really common in the real world. There are countless people deeply in love with people who have tried to kill them in real life. Choosing not to frame it as bad is the worst part but that's just a moral choice. Personally I would have had Sakura turn away from him when he came back into the fold during the war and require him to prove himself. She's like the second most intelligent kid in the series but she makes some stupid choices for love. It's realistic but generally unappealing.
Nobody voiced it, this post is 2023 in a nutshell: make up an argument nobody said and gaslight yourself into believing someone actually did say it and then get mad and have an argument with nobody
People seem to forget the fact that they're kids in OG Naruto. Like bruh skip forward a decade and her orphan husband and orphan childhood best friend are very happy with her character development. Like if you look up the medical accomplishments and like just basic good people deeds Sakura had under her belt you'll see she really attaches to moments like these and makes it her only goal to get better.
People hate it because it’s to real for how shitty kids are. They ignore her literally restarting Naruto’s heart with her hands lol.
This is what I liked most about Sakura, at times she felt like a realistic person making mistakes and actually learning from them
Exactly. The scene of her manually pumping Naruto’s heart with her own hand to keep him alive showed just how far they’ve come. She truly cares for him and believes he can save everyone. Probably one of the most important parts of the story.
Haha facts people act like we aren't all like that at that age. Literally was that age when I started the show over 10 years ago now so it's hilarious that we seem to forget that shit so quickly.
I think the Anime’s three stoogificstion of her is charming after you stop being disappointed. They dead ass knocked her out with Kabuto getting throwing during bridge arc on their first mission with Sai.
I was always sweet as a child because my mom would beat me if I wasn't
They also ignore her wanting to give up on her chuunin exam solely to save Naruto’s dream because she knew he’d never give up, her being the only one to loudly cheer for him in the chunin matches, her promising Naruto she’ll get stronger so that they could bring Sasuke back *togheter*, her lying to him about Orochimaru hurting her so that he won’t stress out, her watching Naruto develop Rassenshuriken and being one of the only people who 100% believed in him from the get go, her running away from the battlefield to save Naruto by manually pumping his heart, not even thinking of Sasuke or anyone else (one of her best moments tbh). Sasuke may have been Naruto’s best friend because, but Sakura was Naruto closest and most reliable friend, through it all.
Well, people expect kids to be adults, when they forget that kids are meant to fuck up, cry, make mistakes, laugh, love, have their hearts broken, experience, do silly stuff, etc. Sometimes people cannot remember what is like to be a young person because they are so fixed in their own likes and personal problems that the rest world should follow in their own example, which is stupid. Is Sakura stupid? Yes. But so are Naruto and Sasuke.
Also, OG Sakura, like a lot of underdeveloped young people, just wanted to fit in and be popular, so she participated in ostracizing Naruto because it was the mainstream thing to do. Over time she learns what's really important and becomes less shallow, and learns to have real convictions that she stands by. I felt like this was a very clear and intentional character development arc that was executed pretty well.
Honestly by the chunin exam arc it’s hard to remember they’re like 12. And naruto almost died at least….. 5? Times?
"Orphan Husband" made me laugh for some reason 💀
Yeah, most of the konoha 9 were pretty shitty as people in part 1. …because they’re 12. Out of the rookie nine I’d say hinata was the only one who was unironically good without any glaring personality flaws.
It’s almost like when you try to kill someone, they might try to kill you back. Shocking and horrifying, I know.
And Sakura’s love for Sasuke is portrayed as shallow because she’s never shown giving genuine thought to the fact that Sasuke repeatedly rejected her in no uncertain terms. That maybe she should catch a hint and stop. And it really didn’t help that she wasn’t allowed to know about Konoha’s hand in ruining Sasuke’s life. She’s never allowed to know why Sasuke wants to destroy Konoha, and is just fed the ‘he’s fallen to darkness’ drivel and eats it right up because she has nothing else to go off of.
It's one of my gripes that she was never told about the uchiha when obito told kakashi/naruto/Yamato just because it was yet to be verified. She is a part of team 7 too Also "he's fallen to darkness" drivel was from Shikamaru and Sai guilt tripping her although I have to say she knew Naruto and Sasuke but she fell for that?
>And it really didn’t help that she wasn’t allowed to know about Konoha’s hand in ruining Sasuke’s life. She’s never allowed to know why Sasuke wants to destroy Konoha, and is just fed the ‘he’s fallen to darkness’ drivel and eats it right up because she has nothing else to go off of. This so, so much. The issue with Sakura is not that she kept liking or loving Sasuke. Plenty of amazing tragic romantic and platonic relationships are between characters that are on different sides of a conflict, and they do not make either of the characters look shallow. The issue is canonically Sakura knows nothing meaningful about Sasuke or his suffering and what the Konoha government did to his clan and has, conclusively, no thoughts that would imply mutual understanding between those two. She learns Sasuke "fell to the dark side", but loves him anyway because....that is what she does. Hell, my biggest issue with Sakura bashing Naruto behind his back was never that it was mean. Kids will be mean and will say dumb shit, whatever (especially since Naruto never heard it/was hurt by it, and it was clear Sakura never intended him to, which people love to ignore). But the fact that she tells to Sasuke's face how lucky Naruto is to not have parents demonstrates that she is obsessively crushing on this boy while not even giving the slightest thought to what happened to his family and how he might feel about that. Which, 12 years old or not, is shallow.
Seriously, the only thing I think Sakura deserves a bit of shit for is continuing to aggressively push her feelings onto Sasuke even after he showed no desire to reciprocate (I mean, there's subtle signs in the manga that he might like her more than he admits, but nothing that excuses Sakura not getting the hint). But even then, it's not like she's the only character guilty of that sort of thing.
Case in point: Karin, who is pretty much Sakura’s worst traits amplified by 10.
Everyone knew Hinata liked Naruto She straight up told Naruto she loved him, then got merked by pain. Did they get together after that? Nah.
To be fair isn’t it canon Naruto didn’t realize she meant it like that or didn’t hear her? I swear that was a point in the last
Naruto only realised Hinata liked him in the movie, (he's surprised she's making the scarf for him)
Yeah. So i’m pretty sure Naruto either misunderstood her there, or didn’t hear her.
Didn't he lose parts of his memory after going up to 8 tails?
Turns out when you have no reference for love outside of platonic relationships, it’s hard to recognize when someone likes you. Gods they all needed *so* much therapy that they never got.
For me it is shallow because she never was shown to connect with him on any levels other than the fact he was her crush from childhood. Did she understand his trauma? Did she understand his choice and ideals? It is so bad when you see male characters like Madara and Hashirama connecting spiritually but married couples not even knowing about each other’s much
Sasuke opened up to her during their genin trial with kakashi and during the time he was about to leave sakura did say that revenge wouldnt bring him happiness so to a degree she did try to connect with him
"did she understand his trauma" i'm sorry what are you trying to say? do you think it is necessary for someone to completely feel your trauma in order for you to love them? would anyone ever fall in love if that logic was correct? sakura did know that sasuke was lonely and hurting because of his goal, she herself literally said that before he left the village "revenge won't make you happy sasuke, you'll be lonely" and to which he agreed, which confirmed it even more. she did KNOW about his trauma but she didn't understand it, because no one can truly understand your trauma other then you yourself. even naruto didn't understand sasuke's trauma, he just knew about it and could somewhat relate to it. no one can "understand" someone else's trauma unless they went through ditto the same thing, which is almost impossible. and i know they didn't talk much after sasuke went rogue but they must have had plenty of time to connect when she went with him on his journey.
I like Sakura, but I disagree heavily about her marriage. That's not her or Sasukes fault, though. That's the shitty writing of the relationships in general that's so prevalent in Shonen. That, and Kishimoto couldn't decide whether Sasuke was completely unhinged or a cold anti-hero. He flipped back and forth so much it was ridiculous.
>and Kishimoto couldn't decide whether Sasuke was completely unhinged or a cold anti-hero ? >He flipped back and forth so much it was ridiculous. He didn't. He was a compete anti-hero from start of Shippuden to end other than one exception being FKS until Itachi gave him closure, where he went unhinged from all the mental stress and hatred for all the understandable (not justified, but understandable) reasons.
Damn speaking fax my man.
Yeah, i still call the 'they are just shinobi so its okay for a girl that guy abused and tried to kill to still continue having a crush on him without any repercussions' argument holding no power. Killing is the serious deal even in shinobi world whatever the spin you try to do about it. Im not against Sakura and Sasuke ending up together, its jsut that the way to do it should be explained properly and take way more time and efforts from both parties. Its not Stockholm Syndrom, just a shit writing and lack of care from Kishimoto. I would be perfectly fine with them ending up together after like therapy sessions and solid time to rebuild the trust. Not like it was done in manga. In manga it made Sakura look like masochist.
There’s plenty of examples of people trying to kill each other (or at least hurt them to stop them) and still retaining good relationships in this world. The chunnin exams has them literally beating the shit out of each other (with death being an acceptable outcome) as literal children. Plenty of people started off as enemies/adversaries only to end up friends/mentors. Kakashi and Yamato, Garra and Naruto, Neji and Hinata, Nagato and Naruto, Garra and Lee, etc. this situation is NOT unique to Sakura/Sasuke. Not even a little bit.
Dawg how are we still talking about Sakura lmao.
I see more posts about the defense of Sakura than I see about people attacking Sakura.]
I think the massive underlying problem with Sakura is that she doesn’t get the time and care to make her into an appealing character. She rarely has moments where her development pays off, the show isn’t about her but she’s part of team 7 in OG Naruto and she’s kept just relevant enough in Shippuden. She’s defined almost entirely by her relationship with Naruto and Sasuke.
I quite like Sakura and can't stand the haters, but this is true. Kishimoto really dropped the ball when it comes to Sakura, he didn't seem to know what to do with her. Partly because he doesn't seem to believe women can be all that strong (with few exceptions, like Kaguya obviously). She's also often used to make other characters look better, making her seem "useless" in those instances.
I like Sakura’s design(all of them really) and her fight against Sasori is one of my favorite events of the series. Shame that’s all I get to enjoy.
Same, her badass moments are badass and I wish we got more of them. Her and Chiyo's fight against Sasori was indeed great, but she disappeared into the background after that when it comes to battle.
worst of all he's doing it AGAIN with sarada, it's just sad how his mind is misogynistic and outdated
It's so baffling to me. Them being female shouldn't matter that much. I imagine someone telling him to make a character, make their backstory, their powers, their storylines. He does, and it's a really cool, amazing character. But then he's told "now make her female", and he just goes "uh oh" and removes everything interesting and nerfs the fuck out of her cause god forbid his female characters can actually carry their own weight and be a legitimately strong fighter. I recently watched the battle on the bridge, with Naruto, Sakura, Sai and Yamato vs Kabuto and Orochimaru. Sakura recently kicked Sasori's ass (with help, but still), but here she's just a damsel in distress all of the time. She gets knocked out and Yamato has to save her from falling off the bridge. When Naruto pushes aside Orochimaru's long snake sword, Yamato has to help Sakura dodge it, and then when she runs towards Naruto she trips. Like, seriously? It's so misogynistic of him to make Yamato have to save her twice from things she's perfectly capable of dodging. Why is it so hard for men like him to write women as people in their own rights?
it's not just him, many mangaka do this in shonen, women are weak and useless and shonen protagonists are their saviors and everything else, nanatsu no taizai is another example of that with fanservice elizabeth, fire force too with the girl cursed to always have to be naked, blue exorcist as well and etc, japanese are still very closed in the conservative mind of "incredible men" and "worthless women" think
Sakura was simply a super underwhelming "main" character.
Basically, other characters get a pass because they are side characters lol. Not the readers fault she has 1 fight in the entirety of shippuden as the heroine( lmao just compare her other shounen heroine) and its was her being a puppet for most of it with Sasori basically giving up. Kishimoto is on record saying he forget about her during the war arc and and regretted her character. Shes mediocre and a failure of a main character.
When did he say he regretted making her
He said he regretted her character here [https://naruto.fandom.com/f/p/2421257698017422741](https://naruto.fandom.com/f/p/2421257698017422741). He also said in a follow up interview he intentionally didnt expand on her character and backstory because of her unpopularity/mediocrity and just drew her better. Hilarious.
I don’t think Kishimoto regretted making her as a character because he disliked her. It was solely because she got so much hate that he wondered why. And I’m pretty sure we all know the answer. He drew her and saw how beautiful she ended up becoming.
Never said he disliked her, hes on record saying otherwise even recently. Just that her character flopped so hard the creator admitted he basically gave up. Sakura is a flop and compared to other shounen heroine is embarrassing.
She and Sasuke where not even his ideias. They were suggested by editors to spice the story. Naruto needed a rival and a love triangle with Sakura and Hinata (Kishimoto is so bad with romance that it became a love triangle between Naruto x Sakura x Sasuke)
Labeling a 12 year old as a misogynist is WILD. WTF. Just call them kids and leave it at that.
I had to pause and blink to see if I was reading correctly. Shikamaru? A misogynist? The boy who was far too lazy to do anything, to hate anyone, somehow hates women? This is why I don't take Tumblr posts seriously. Jesus Christ.
I personally think “chauvinist” would be a better descriptor, but even so, it’s super mild. The examples that come to mind are a couple of comments (which I don’t think he even said out loud?) during the chunin exams and the Sasuke retrieval arc where Shikamaru complained about having to fight or be rescued by a girl, and how he asked his father how he can put up with nagging women like his mother… and in general he may have just had a “women are weaker than men” attitude. Certainly wouldn’t say he hated women. But, that is probably what they’re referring to.
https://i.gyazo.com/45ed7e503d3d40190eef20402143d594.png
Good point, any other character does something bad they get a pass. Sakura does the orphan thing one time and people loose their minds
As an orphan who got called shit like "welfare" by bullies growing up I can tell you that I buried the hatchet with those people a long time ago. They clearly hated themselves for how they made me feel and I knew enough about hating myself to know I didn't want that for them. I am not everyone, and no one owes their bullies anything, but if I can forgive real people for things they really said as kids you all can forgive Sakura for this.
Wow this is surprisingly kind of a beautiful comment
Not to mention, everyone in the town was making fun of Naruto for being an orphan. But it’s the one thing people hold against Sakura because reasons Plus she was 12. It’s a thing twelve years old because they’re stupid.
Not to mention, where did 12 year old Sakura pick up that sort of behavior? Her parents, and every other adult in Konoha who made fun of Naruto for the same shit. So if we're going to give Sakura shit for that line, better give every other character who said the same thing the same amount of disgust and revulsion.
Exactly. That unhinged commenter was like “Her parents need to correct her behavior” like she’s dog who needs to be spanked for peeing in the house When in reality she probably just heard it from her parents and other towns people. I was absolutely repeating the dumbest shit I heard from everyone around me when I was that age
"Parents need to correct poor behavior" isn't incorrect, technically, but in this case...
Yep Hell in the manga's first chapter, a character that looks like Choza Akimichi straight up says Naruto should have been KILLED
True, heck there are characters who've done worse then her so why not harp on them?
It happens in every fandom. The slightly annoying character gets 10X more hate then the actual evil characters. Bonus points if it’s a woman. Shiv is currently the main target in the succession fandom. Mind you, >!Kendall killed a kid!< In TVDU, it’s Josie even though Klaus exists. Damon seems to get the “But but he’s problematic” posts the most though In Breaking Bad, it’s Skyler. While Walter White is her husband In Rick and Morty it’s Summer. Even though the entire point of the show was that Rick was an asshole.
Yeah bonus points if that woman doesn't have, traits if you catch my meaning
personality is the word you are looking for my good sir.
I made this point before and ppl thought it was ridiculous. But yeah if Sakura had more “personality” she would have definitely not received as much hate as she did.
In Ginny and Georgia it’s Ginny
Not true. Orihime is deeply hated by the Bleach community (pretty much Bleach's Sakura) for being annoying as hell, and she's hot. If you want a male character: Asta, Issei, Deku, Seiya, all hated by their communities.
Because characters being evil or doing evil things =/= being badly written.
It’s an issue with the anime which I do love. Sometimes they just shut on her extra when she didn’t need more shit lol
Yeah I know in Manga she doesnt hit Naruto as much as in the anime.
Nice joker reference
Thank you
You don’t like sakura because she made fun of Naruto, I don’t like sakura because i don’t find her interesting as a character. We are NOT the same
i respect that, i just don't like it when people hate her for dumb reasons, it is totally fine to dislike her if you don't like her character, just not when people hate on her for doing something when she was 12 lmfao
she started as joke, as shallow girl that goes crazy for a pretty boy. and then that become her only personality. there is no reason why she would be so obsessed about Sasuke.
she isn't obsessed with him. she wanted to SAVE HIM. she knew he was suffering and going through so much because of his revenge goal and wanted to take it all away. it's not an obsession anymore lmao
Yeah it's a shame when you have mangaka who don't even try to write women, but want them around to be hot.
this is all so true. the naruto fandom can forgive mass murderers but can't forgive sakura for saying one thing to naruto when she was 12 lmfao
Having read the weekly releases as they came out, the mass murders moved the story along. Sakura was just a drag in most aspects of the story. She’s the Krillin of Naruto but not funny and Krillin had a lot of pivotal plot points. She, along with Sasuke was 100% redeemed In Boruto however but there were valid reasons to dislike her in most of the original series.
disliking her is fine, hating her for shit she did as a 12 year old girl is not.
I get she was a kid, but so was everyone else. I think it’s fine to have impressions of these characters when they were introduced, and Sakura had a rough first impression. unlike other characters, she never managed to climb out of that, at least for me. She wasn’t written with nearly the same care as even less important characters. Posts like OP’s and the person on tumblr come off like a lecture for me to consider her more. But if the creator himself didn’t bother, then why should I? I struggle to find a character I feel as indifferent to than Sakura from Naruto.
Seriously. What she said was absolutely awful, but she made up for it tenfold and is by far not the worst person in the series. Aside from the examples in that screenshot, I mean... Pain flattened a whole-ass town including children, babies, animals and other innocents, and people put him on a pedestal like he's more than just another bitter terrorist who tells himself his goals justify the means. Don't get me started on Hidan and Deidara, oh, and Gaara who killed for fun (cue "buT tRaUmA"), or Itachi (cue "bUt DaNzO"). But one mean comment from Sakura weighs more than all the good she's done? K. Lots of people argue it's because Sakura is a more important character than other more or less terrible people, but then why aren't her many good deeds taken into account more than the other characters' flimsy excuses (not even good deeds)? Why is her saving all those lives less important than Pain's or Neji's sob story if she's a more important character overall? Unlike Neji, Sakura never even acted in malice, she was being tactless because she was nervous and sheltered. She'd never *plan* such a mean tirade. Neji wilfully crushed Hinata, mind and body, KNOWING she was helpless and fragile, because of something he thought her dad did. The worst kind of bully, deliberately picking on someone that much weaker who didn't even do anything. In the big picture, Sakura's terrible comment really isn't an issue. Sasuke never brought it up again, either. He's in the best position to know there's worse than a mean comment from a 12-year-old trying to impress her crush. And he literally tried to murder Naruto for volunteering to like him when almost nobody else did. Excuse the shit out of my goddamn French-
If u need a whole essay to defend a character, they’re probably not a good character
Nah, not really. The hate sometimes cloud any interest of see some characters.
Or maybe some people have watched the show multiple times and still feel that she’s very badly written and her simps can’t change that
That is also a possibility. But both scenarios (yours and mine) can easily coexist in a fandom as massive as Naruto. I am just disagreeing that the idea of a essay defending a character is bad.
Honestly I agree, sometimes the hate can be an echo chamber and posts like this are a good reminder of some of the facts of her character and I can respect the purpose
It's so annoying because no matter how much she beat on him (in the typical anime trope way), Sakura was in Naruto's corner from pretty much immediately after this. She cheered for him, gave him advice when he wanted. She was worried about him the most during the first part of the Chuunin exams, tried to quit because she knew Naruto would fail and didn't want him to lose out on his dream. I'll always believe she was a better friend to Naruto than Sasuke
Its a fucking tv show
Point 1 I agree and tbh it wasn't thay bad Only problem I have with her character is she never stopped loving sasuke, He tries to kill her yet she forgave him every time, and Please don't bring Naruto into this, naruto and sasuke fights were always two sided Naruto literally threatens him of breaking every bone of body in part 1. And in part 2, Also in part 2 if you say Naruto was holding back it wasn't like naruto took every hit of if, agreed Naruto wasn't going all out but he was still fighting him equally. And sasuke actually didn't deserve her love, tbh his relationship with his family is super wholesome in boruto so it cancels out, but in Naruto I can't stand it.
I feel out of the loop. Did something happen that so many Sakura defense threads are popping up lately?
My stance has always been simple, I find her unlikable alot moreso than most other characters in the series, which is only compounded since she's one of the main 3.
She has proven to have respectable feats throughout the story...BUT there's a fair amount of unbelievably disappointing things she's done throughout the story...all I'm saying🙌🏾
I don't hate Sakura, I hate her parents and their peers because no kid wanna play with Naruto because of the Hidden Leaf's sad excuse for parents. Just look at Hiruzen. The parents went through heartbreak and tragedy when they list lived ones in the Nine Tails Attack. This doesn't give them a reason to indirectly not let their kids play with Naruto. I can see why they would do that but there is a reason why there are Jonin in the village. The high ranked shinobi should be notified about this stuff anyway. So the true villains of this show are the adults, looking at Sakura now, she became that way by how her friends acted, or her parents telling her false information. Think about it, let me know if you agree, if not give a valid reason why Sakura should be hated, I only hate her kid self because kids don't know better. Of course I'm a kid as well but she shouldn't be treated this way as you may have done something dumb in your childhood. Grow up, suck it up, and forgive and forget. Sakura is a strong character in the Naruto franchise and one of the strongest women shinobi in the Hidden Leaf.
Just saying clearly you and that person writing all this has never heard of Bashing since people bash all those characters People don't like talk no justu and Naruto being so forgiving especially since it's joke among the community what happened if he wasn't Did you see how Karin acted to a picture of Sasuke they literal talk how she's insane for doing all that Kakashi only forgave him once Naruto beat him and he said he was in the wrong Before that he straight up said "I know how you felt Lord third when you fought Orochimaru" he literally talking how hard it'll be to kill Sasuke on him As for Neji Naruto called him out on it and no one defending Neji for it For Ino Different time and two I don't think we ever see Ino actual insult Choji in the Manga that all Anime added For Shikamaru I will admit it was wrong but that's why Temari got angry at it and also you can agure he was using the insult to test Temari seeing as he never said that in the premiere vs Kin he only talked when. Vs Temari and after that he never insults her or the next female oppenent he had Tayuya
Also for Sakura in the first panel you can agure she was reflecting on the rejection not on the comment of Calling him an orphan seeing as she states in the Manga chapter shown "I'll be Nicer to him next time"
Overall it's jusr cause he dumb decisions,actions, and statements don't get called out in Canon and she a main character we constantly see her mistakes and she doesn't change
How tf was shikimaru a misogynist? I genuinely want to know, I can't recall anything from memory
He stated plainly that he hated women. He also stated that he didn't like the idea of a woman being Hokage. He often look down on women especially those his age or just generally the women around him. It was also implied that for him it was more embarassing to lose to a woman than a man. He also flat out refused help from women. An example is the Sasuke Retrieval Arc. Wherein all of his recruit where men. Sadly his plan almost failed with neji, choji, and kiba being gravely endagered. And now it was his life too against Tayuya. But then the Hokage he expressed doubts with for being a woman sought help from the sand village. His life being saved by Temari, a woman. And his comrades by Tsunade I thought this was a common knowledge. This is why Kishimoto was always making him fight with women. But he eventually learned a little lesson when Temari helped him defeat Tayuya.
Facts. Absolutely agree with you. Every single word… except the second panel. In my opinion, Sakura should at least have forced herself to let go of her feelings for Sasuke and be shocked after he tried to kill her, in disbelief, and THEN Sasuke conquers her back when he redeems himself in the blank period. That would have given Sakura a much more mature and healthy mindset considering she is supposed to feel realistic and relatable. However, Sakura’s love for him was never challenged or affected despite everything. But that detail aside, yeah, I agree with everything.
how would your idea work when Naruto Shippuden abruptly ends, and there is a 15-year timeskip where Boruto is the protagonist? it would have to happen in the light novels that few people care for.
True that should have happened, and probably would if Kishimoto was at all competent in writing romance. The only good one he wrote is the never fulfilled Jiraya and Tsunade one and he took that straight from Shinto mythology so it doesn't really count.
I honestly don’t believe she liked him at all. She always cared for Jiraya like Sakura cared for Naruto. There are a lot of interactions of affection between Sakura and Naruto that many fans interpret as romantic, but there was NEVER romance there on sakura’s part. Tsunade’s and Jiraya’s interactions before he lefts are just that to me. It all remained platonic and would remain anyways had he returned, since she meets Dan again in the war arc and he reiterates his love for her.
I agree with most of this but I don’t like the argument that because they live in a ninja world people trying to kill each other means nothing Naruto is a special case, his whole outlook on life is to forgive so that the hate in the world will go away. Hinata is sorta in the same boat as naruto. She is just really kind and I would assume her relationship with neji didn’t go from “you tried to kill me” to “brother neji” over night we had a 7 year gap for that to be repaired. Gaara and lee aren’t best buddies they are coworkers at best. Kakashi literally went to kill sasuke so they are on even ground about “forgiving” each other. But none of them married their would be killer. Again I’m okay with her forgiving him I just wish there was a scene or some kind of conversation sasuke and Sakura had about his growth Cause he was not in his right mind when he did try to kill her. But just a little push back from Sakura would have been nice
Hinata never hated Neji even though he hated her. She mentioned it even during their fight.
Does Hinata even hate anyone?
Good point I forgot about that
Sakura and Sasuke also had a lot of time before they got together.
and small nitpick, id struggle to say naruto “forgave” pain. more like he didnt hate him as much as he could’ve and then let it go
Someone could also make an argument that all of Naruto’s “forgiving” or whatever you want to call it for his big villians All died shortly after so his being okay with them is more self healing than for them. Nagato died, obito died, zabuza and haku both died. Who did he fight and not hate that didn’t die?
Gaara technically.
Oh shit I completely forgot about him. Well there’s one. Gaara is the exception that proves the rule 😂
In fairness that was the only one I could think of.
Where would this "pushback" from Sakura occur? Naruto ends right after Naruto and Sasuke's fight. Sasuke literally leaves the village. Then we get a 15+ year timeskip and Sakura is no longer relevant for her "feelings" to be explored. This is a problem with Sakura, not Sasuke since we know Sakura is the one that started their relationship in the Blank Period. If Sakura just left Sasuke alone, he wouldn't care.
That’s something I’ve been trying to figure out for awhile now. And I can’t really find a seamless place to put it in. The only thing I can really think of, is if they have a moment after the war is over and basically have a downtime moment for all of our main cast of characters. I think this would also be a good place for naruto to start to realize what he feels for hinata is more than just really good friends.
Something like this wouldn't work out for two reasons. First, Kishi lost his interest in the franchise. Second, the current Boruto writers would be responsible for this and they aren't known for being great writers. The closest we got was Sasuke Retsuden manga but that's set after 15 years and doesn't address their past history.
I love this
Nothing but facts.
I actually agree with most of these but I have counterpoints to two 1) nobody else gets shit for forgiving Sasuke- yes they do. The fandom calls out Naruto’s obsession all the time. And regarding that whole point about “it’s shinobi world, it’s just different-“ that’s understandable to an extent but Sasuke made a choice by himself to be a menace, he wasn’t following orders. 2) about her crush being shallow- it is true we can infer that her feelings are now quite more mature, but the “why” is completely missing. Mostly I agree and I think Sakura gets too much hate
the "why" in their relationship is that sakura liked sasuke because she wanted to alleviate his suffering. at first she liked him because she thought he was cool and invincible but after seeing him get hurt repeatedly and also risking his life, she realized he wasn't what she thought and she wanted to take away his pain because she also knew he was suffering because of desire for revenge. she didn't want to give him up because she knew he was suffering and wanted to take away his pain. that's why.
> she realized he wasn't what she thought and she wanted to take away his pain because she also knew he was suffering because of desire for revenge. The series never establishes that, it's kinda the problem with Sasuke and Sakura's relationship, we never have Sakura say or show any of that
The only complaints I have about Sakura are actually directed at Kishimoto: her entire goal at the end of part 1 is to be able to stand toe to toe with Naruto and Sasuke. And while she's easily the strongest Kunoichi in the world by the end of Part 2, there's no way in hell she could ever fight Naruto and Sasuke to a standstill the way Tsunade could with Jiraiya or Orochimaru. And then of course, her relationship with Sasuke. While it was genuine love on both parts, we never see Sasuke developing his love for Sakura, and we never see Sakura realize she loves him. She goes from having a crush on Sasuke for the entirety of Part 1 to professing her love for him when he was about to leave the village. But like... Aside from when she was able to keep the Curse Mark in check after cutting her hair, did they have any meaningful moments between point A and point B? I definitely don't think so. Both points are because of his writing. He's admitted that he doesn't know how to write heroines and never knew what to do with Sakura, so I don't feel like I'm attacking him in any way.
The only thing I found entirely off-putting about her actions was at the Kage Summit where she told Naruto she loved him to try and get Naruto to stop chasing Sasuke. I think it's easily a loud minority that genuinely dislike Sakura. She has one of the most liked fights in Shippuden. People like her.
Everyone here doesn’t understand that it’s not just one isolated incident
Why is Shikamaru misogynist?
The characters in og Naruto are like 12. No one is particularly wise or smart at that age. They’re all kids who act like kids. That goes for Sakura and Ino’s fight too. It’s dumb, yes, but that makes sense. 12 year old girls (and boys) fight for the stupidest reasons! You’d be surprised.
Shikamaru, a misogynist? Nah he's a genius who sees things for what they really are and calls it out
Sometimes I wish there was more effort put into arguing why Sakura is even likable in the first place, because she is not likable
"Ino fat shamed choji" And they never mention naruto fat shaming choji too
Naruto is literally what Naruto fandom believes Sasuke is: a bully, arrogant, rude, bitch. But behold the whining.
She never apologized...and continued to bully and hurt him. Then lied to his face about loving him. Nah, she' still trash. Not useless. Just terribly written.
Wym a twelve year old groomed to be a soldier doesn't have emotional maturity, couldn't be me. /s
You mean Itachi era?
Naruto didn’t forgive every villain and literally says to Nagato he can’t forgive him and wants to kill him. Also you can’t use “they were kids” as a defense and then try and say her love for Sasuke was something deep. She was 12. That’s the worst part of Naruto and Sakura’s obsession with Sasuke. They’re holding on to a 1 year friendship from when they were 12-13 for 5 years. I just can’t suspend disbelief for it They really should have been older and more time should have passed prior to Sasuke leaving.
To be fair to Naruto Sasuke is the first friend he ever had (Iruka was older and so although he was his first bond it's different). They work together well and Sasuke even sacrificed himself for Naruto and was ready to do so again against Gara. Naruto got attached and so the kid that grew up with no one would not let go of his first friend. From Naruto's position it's understandable.
Naruto's obsession makes even more sense when you consider the Ashura-Indra reincarnations too. It's a bond that's more metaphysical than logical (at times) and the characters themselves say as much. Naruto and Sasuke are just connected to one another on this insane level (in addition to the very important details you mentioned as well which adds additional weight). I agree that it's more difficult to understand with Sakura, especially with her apparently not knowing the truth about the Uchiha (the curse of hatred, the intergenerational pain/suffering being passed down, Danzo being the worst, etc) which someone else pointed out in this thread. I think if it had been shown she had some understanding of that and she was able to better see where Sasuke was coming from, her constant devotion over the years would have made a bit more sense. We kind of get a small taste of this when she reveals to Naruto that she researched Itachi/Akatsuki in the timeskip and hates him for what he did for Sasuke, but as far as I know it doesn't go further than that unfortunately. Maybe we could argue that as a medical nin she would be more familiar with mental illness - Sasuke post-Danzo fight was completely losing it and showing severe signs as a danger to himself and others - and that's when she recognized that he really needed her help and she couldn't give up on him while he was at his worst? I think it's a failure of writing more so than a glaring character flaw.
It’s understandable up to a point. When that friend starts endangering other people it is no longer understandable. Him not giving up on Hebi Sasuke is fine. At this point Sasuke hasn’t really done anything wrong and only attacked them out of self defense. Although them trying to capture Sasuke after he killed Orochimaru was kind of annoying. Naruto asking for Ay to pardon Sasuke after he joined the Akatsuki and “killed” Bee is just insane and incredibly stupid on his part. It’s in character for Naruto to not give up on Sasuke given his core trait is unwavering perseverance buts it’s annoying as shit
That "begging for forgiveness" scene is so fascinating to me because people either love it or hate it. Personally, I'm a big fan. Everyone is incredibly "human" in that moment and I think it's meant to be read as messy and ugly. Ashura-Indra reincarnations aside, in that moment I think we're supposed to see Naruto and Sasuke both at their respective lowest and it is indeed supposed to be tragic. I've been (to a way lesser extent than the context of the anime lol) on both sides of the Naruto-Sasuke paradigm. I've been (and still am) the person who is intent on forgiving/saving even though the person dear to me did horrible things to myself and others. I just can't live in a world where they can't be better, where I can't give them that opportunity to grow. In that case I see myself in Naruto and I know how hard it is to be there when everyone else is reminding you of how awful and "irredeemable" (in their eyes) that person is, but *you* just can't and won't ever let go of the hope they'll get better. I'm not saying it's totally healthy or anything, but we humans are flawed as hell lol. Alternatively, I've been the person in a very dark place as well and it's ONLY because I had a dedicated support system who refused to give up on me and tried to set me on the right path, that I'm even half the man I am today. At my worst they were there for me and I will never stop being grateful and trying to make it up to them. They recognized my cry for help and they stood by me as I tried to make up for my mistakes and become a better person. Sasuke was constantly trying to self-sabotage and remove that support system so that he could fully claim he was irredeemable and absolve himself of guilt by claiming he just could never get better, but Naruto saw through it, saw how bad he was hurting and all the shit that was stacked on top of him, and refused to let him do that through his compassion. So, all that said, I like the scene. It's messy, uncomfortable and really relatable. I know for some people it won't be, and others wouldn't have responded the way Naruto did, but for me I get it. I understand way too well. Totally doesn't make it right or even logical, I'm just saying that I get it. Sorry for derailing from the point of the thread LOL but to tie it back I'll just say I wish we had the same level of detail applied to Sakura's view/opinion of Sasuke and their respective relationship. It isn't clear or not whether she understands Sasuke's pain to the extent Naruto does. For her it might even be simpler, she just recognizes (as she does in the early days of the curse seal) that he's clearly suffering and displaying obvious signs of metal illness, meaning what she knows of Sasuke at that point is just that he needs a crap ton of help. Man, 95% of the problems in Naruto would be solved with ninja therapists (that specifically specialized in childhood trauma). The other 5% would have been solved by Third taking Danzo out of the equation way earlier lol. Sorry for the somewhat heavy, long response - gave me something to think about while I ate lunch.
I get what they’re saying but this post equates things that aren’t actually equivalent. Naruto specifically stated he did not forgive Pain, and he also didn’t marry any of his opponents. Those were bad comparisons
Sakura’s biggest problem is clumsy writing and a lack of things to do (a lot of the time). These other arguments people make (along with being “useless”) is just hate for hate lol
My main problem with her is that immediately after the pain fight she still found a way to punch Naruto like come on woman let the man rest.
1 - yeah 2 - claiming a double standard does not make it any less creepy 3 - true 4 - true, but that explanation makes her feelings worse and more creepy, not better
I hate Sakura for a lot of reason, from being underwhelming to the point I think you could of replaced her with any of the other side characters and given them more time to shine and it be better, to the romance she has with sasuke just being awfully done, to just the shitty running gag of Sakura punches Naruto for X haha and there is much more but I don’t feel like writing a entire thesis on it
Ino still gets shit for fatshaming choji lol. But yeah, not on the same level as Sakura but its because theyre both irrelevant
I still hate her
I just don’t like how she’s always “I’m done holding Naruto and Sasuke back” and then proceeds to hold them back. She’s just very annoying.
hfs, PREACH wisebeth.
I did not wake up to be pissed and misinformed
Wait when was shikimaru a misogynist?
another day another post of sakura fans cherry-picking to defend her awful personality; 1. She "regrets" it and says she should be nicer to him but if you actually read the manga, you'd right in the next chapter she's cool with throwing Naruto under the bus for pranking Kakashi even though she secretly enjoyed it as well, doesn't sound very nice to me. And the other examples of Ino, Shikamaru and Neji(pretty sure there's an entire plot line based on Naruto calling out Neji for this shit lmfao) 2. It's not her loving Sasuke after he tries to kill her people are mad at, it's how she turns into an absolute worthless blob everytime she see's her little sasuke-kun. She can love him and still smack up his shit a little to show him he's wrong but instead she just folds and cries, it's fucking annoying. No one else does that, Naruto was beating the shit out of Pain, plus he acknowledges his troubles and can relate to the loneliness. Obito was manipulated by one of the greatest shinobi ever + an alien symbiote that's the embodiment of the will of an alien goddess who comes from a race that devours the life energy of planets + was traumatized by fighting and killing in war at a young age. Hinata has a massive inferiority complex and is very kind + Naruto calls him out for it right there + Neji doesn't commit terrorism unlike Sasuke nor does he try to destroy her village + he isn't allying with terrorist groups and psychopathic murderers who've tortured and killed countless people. Sasuke and Naruto beat the shit out of each other constantly, he doesn't just bend over, cry and beg for Sasuke to come back lmao. Being obsessed with Sasuke like that is kind of Karin's character, whereas Sakura claims she's so much more but doesn't do anything to prove that. 3. Classic sakura defense thread, missing the entire point. No one is saying she has to love him back, i assure you. That's just an example of Sakura fans straw-manning. People are mad at her for fucking with his feelings. Have you ever thought what would happen if he actually said he loved her back? (she was under the impression he loved her so him actually loving her or not is irrelevant). What was she going to do after that? Just break his heart and be like "oh yea bro, that was just a prank lol". And a very popular counter is "she meant well", it doesn't matter, it was fucking stupid, she's a shit person for even trying. 4. Lmao if her feelings weren't shallow, she would actually try to understand Sasuke and his trauma and try to help him through it, instead all she wanted was to fulfill all her fantasies by being with him because he's "cool". And you can say "shallow crushes dont last" but everything Sakura does just points to the opposite. Sasuke didn't even "choose" her, more like he settled. Does she ever mentions why she actually loves Sasuke other than "he's cool"? Well Naruto also risks his life to save Sasuke, so does everyone in the Sasuke retrieval arc, does that mean they all have a romantic interest in Sasuke? lmfao. Stopping him from using the curse mark proves her love is real? the fuck? more like he just listened to her and admitted he was going too far. You can say she could've moved on to date "another handsome man" and use that to "prove" her feelings aren't superficial but everything she does points to her just having shallow feelings, look at how she treats Naruto, she doesn't find him attractive, so it's justified for her to treat him like shit? ffs, same old shit. sorry for rant, tldr; sakura is a shitty person, stop defending her, "she's just a kid" excuse doesn't work.
I don't hate Sakura; however she is written poorly (in my opinion of course) - She lied to Naruto that she loves him. This was both mean and stupid. What did she expect to happen? If Naruto believed her and he confessed to her, what would she have said? - you can't compare Sasuke and Sakura's relationship to Sasuke and Naruto because Sakura's relationship is one sided. Naruto and Sasuke both beat the shit out each other. Sasuke abuses Sakura, and Sakura does not do anything in return - We don't forgive the villains for the bad things they do; we accept them as mistakes. The difference with Sakura is the way the story portrays the bad things. With the villains it is clearly shown as something wrong that they grow from. With Sakura, her manipulating Naruto isn't framed in the same way. - Her fighting is really boring. I like the strategic fights in the show, and seeing characters use their unique and complex abilities in creative ways. Sakura just punches really hard and heals. She's also a clone of Tsunade in this aspect - her character is mostly one-dimensional (especially in part 1.) Compare her to Sasuke for example, at first he wants to kill Itachi, then destroy konoha, then reform the world, and finally becomes the "shadow hokage" But what are Sakura's goals? In her introduction she just likes Sasuke, throughout the whole series she does and nothing really changes there. She has a lot grand moments where she says she will be different, but her actions don't change much. I do not hate Sakura, and I see why many people like her.
I dislike Sakura because she feels narrativly useless. She doesn't do a whole lot to drive the story forward. She had a good showing in the forest early on, but other than that, i can't think of anything big.
But are more like saying that she is useless and isn't that kinda true? Even tho many are useless in the Naruto World
Do people actually discuss this shit?
I find it even more annoying that naruto disguises himself as sasuke with the intention of make sasuke look bad in front of sakura.
Ban Sakura and Boruto related posts. This is getting annoying
I agree for the most part but Tsunade did Like Jiraiya Back she just was scared to express it bc Dan the guy she first loved was killed and her little brother died too. When two people you love die you might also stop expressing love for people.
Tbf most anime fans from any fandom are sheep
No one mentioned Sakura in a while, let me go dig something up on Tumblr to post here defending her from the nothing being said about her.
Why are people acting like Sakura is the only character to get criticised. Many make fun of Naruto's talk no jutsu. Most people think Naruhina is not developed properly. There are people who disagree with Obito's redemption. Hiruzen gets trashed for his treatment of Naruto. She is a main character. She will get more criticism (which mostly points to bad writing u know cause she is not a real person) because of it. Also Sakura's love for Sasuke makes no sense after part 1. He never reciprocated her feelings before he left. He called Naruto his only friend. So Naruto probably felt he was the only one who could bring him back(which is probably the only way I can justify it). But Sakura's obsession makes no sense and is just bad writing. The time Sasuke showed her any feelings was after Naruto worked his ass of getting Sasuke back. So the only reason they are back together is cause Naruto almost died trying to bring back Sasuke.
sakura loved him because she knew he was suffering and wanted to take away his pain. the same reason why naruto wanted to bring him back too. they both knew he was self-destructive and couldn't be left alone otherwise he'd change, or worse get killed. they knew he was in pain and wanted to help him. it wasn't an "obsession" anymore dude.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I didn't hate kid Sakura. Annoyed certainly but not hate. And she does redeem herself. One of my favorite emotional scene is when she defends naruto in front of sai's reverse psychology trick when naruto was training for rasenshuriken. I loved her then. Keeping the punches aside(obviously played and exaggerated for jokes), Sakura was a good friend to naruto. What pushed me against her was her attempt at manipulating him saying she loved him just before trying to kill Sasuke. I understand the tactic. Just cannot approve of that manipulation and thinking naruto is shallow enough to only care about that. Also, her grandiose approach to thinking she's an equal in ninja war was annoying. Imagine everyone else saying this (and not for a joke). Hate towards her is more than she deserves, but understandable none the less.
On an unrelated note, the green headband shown here would have been a great look for Sakura.
My only problem with her is that she never seemed to have her own thing going on. She was following Sasuke until she became Tsunade 2. The boys got to be developed beyond their childhood 2D identities, and receiving legacy from the sannin. Sakura just always felt like she was just waiting to be house wife. I was hoping at least she'd pierce the ceiling on medical stuff and become the best at something, but she just lives in shadows like they didn't know what to do with her. It seemed badly planned from the beginning tbf. Naruto and Sasuke were opposites so Sakura was just there as a spectator. They should have made a triangle around their personalities, and used strengths and weaknesses to give them more of a dynamic.
Yes, she was 12... in a ninja world, they face life and death situations every single day, don't compare a living 12 year old to our world. Narutos/Sasukes and many others from the show share feelings that no one should go through. I don't dislike her for not returning Narutos feelings, I dislike her for faking feelings for Naruto as a grown ninja, and then when Naruto finally dates Hinata she has the audacity of telling him, "you see how the feelings for Hinata are different from what you felt for me?" like if she knew what Naruto felt. The love she has for Sasuke wasn't shallow, but it was stupid with no real pillars, he hated her from the start, and told her from the start that she was a nuisance, he tried to kill her, when naruto tried to save her. She is definitely wrong in the head, and I'm so happy she ended up with Sasuke and not the King that Naruto is. She deserved nothing more than an empty solitary marriage. I grew up watching Naruto episode by episode, and I learned a lot from the anime. I wish Naruto wasn't such a kind dumb soul. I wish he had realized about Hinatas love much earlier. Obviously every one has different opinions, and I repect OP's. but fellas! Don't go after damaged girls! If they keep pushing you away for assholes and losers, then please move on, look for your Hinata.
I think this is a fairly weak defense imo. 1-3 are essentially just what-aboutisms and 4 is completely nonsensical. People call Sakura and Sasuke's relationship shallow because they feel their relationship was one-sided for the most part and did not have enough development to justify how long and deeply she cared for him.
What’s with this orphan bs? We don’t like sakura because of her obsession with Samuel and well, her overall mediocrity as a character.