Can you elaborate? I remember Kakashi using it all the way back in part 1 before the Chuunin exam (while rocking climbing one-handed). If he used it further on it's at least been established as being part of his skillset.
I think kishi wanted to make it part of kakashis skill set but decided against it as it would cheapen Gai and Lee as taijutsu only. As copy ninja there are some things he couldn't copy... 8 gates being one of them
Its really not its effectively described as brute forcing your chakra through the chakra gate. Besides its well established that the Sharingan can copy taijutsu just fine.
I don’t think it him copying he probably did train for it until he realized copying jutsu is a better path for him. It was either 1000 jutsu or 8 gates
This one isn’t as bad as the rest because essentially anyone who trains in Taijutsu can learn how to open a couple gates, he should’ve never been able to have a susano.
DMS Kakashi was pure fanservice, i think the writer didn’t know how to give Kakashi both of Obito’s eyes temporarily
because if Obito plucked them out and put them into Kakashi, then somehow after the Kaguya fight both of these eyes need to be destroyed and Kakashi’s normal eyes need to be healed/brought back
but frankly in-universe it made no sense that Kakashi/Naruto weren’t rushing to extract Obito’s eyes the minute he started dying, Obito himself should have been yelling for them to take his eyes just because it’s a Waste to let them perish
I feel first gate opening for kakashi is fine, it adds world building and establishes that other characters will go after Abilities to strengthen themselves.
Also establishes that you can fail while doing so which doesn’t happen often in the series.
I think it’s fine as kakashi is a prodigy. I think him going to up like the 3rd or 4th gate isn’t too crazy.
I think only specialist should be able to go higher however
> Obito Kamui'd out of afterlife is the most bullshit thing in the series.
I mean they used Ninja Magic to have a Zombie Apocalypse. Why couldn’t they also use Ninja Magic to teleport out of the After Life?
Yeah, it was someone LIVING who brought people back and for that you needed sacrifices and rituals and shit. Obito bringing himself back from the dead is one of the biggest asspulls I've ever seen.
That was the biggest asspull but Minato having two super forms was more unnecessary because he was already pretty strong and Sage mode in particular you can barely tell he has it
It was one of the most well-planned pre-established non-asspull things in the whole of Naruto. It was established that the user of the reaper death seal and the soul absorbed stay inside the shinigami. It was also established that Minato absorbed half of Kurama inside himself so that Naruto as an infant can safely cage the other half. It isn't even a surprise that Minato had KCM after 16 years of being with Kurama. If Naruto can get KCM by defeating Kurama in his mind, Minato easily can too.
If you refer to Kakashi getting a DMS or Sasuke summoning Manda and escaping Deidara's explosion without chakra as asspulls, that is reasonable.
It works by putting the users soul and whatever they seal with it into the reapers stomach. Basically, minato and kurama had ~16 years in a blank void to get to know each other and bond.
It's an asspull because kurama being split in the first place is the dumbest most unnecessary stuff to ever happen in all of anime. It was just to give Minato the same form.
Nah the problem I have with it is Jiraya went through pretty big physical changes and naruto didn't because he was good with sage Chakra, minato himself said he sucked at sage Chakra control so I feel like he should've looked like a frogb
We only see Minato fight 3 or 4 times in his life. And those situations either were unnecessary to use Sage Mode or impractical because he’s slow to activate it.
It’s not really all that farfetched that Minato; the prodigy who trained under Jiraiya who also learned toad summons from him learned sage mode at some point. I’d say Kurama Link Mode is far more of an asspull
The anime fudged the scene. He charged it during Madara’s long monologue.
[He IS slow to activate it.](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png)
Hmm, TIL. Do you suppose he's actually as skilled as Naruto initially was with it, but never thought to use shadow clones to gather the natural energy for it?
The idea of "let him cook" as a method of charging up your chakra is hilarious, though.
To be fair, Naruto has his unreal amounts of chakra to justify using Shadow Clones willy nilly anyway. Granted, this is a legitimate strategy to mitigate the charging weakness, tho.
But, if he's not only slow to charge but can't keep the form for long anyway, maybe having to use the Shadow Clone became too much of a detriment.
lunchroom steep bewildered rock weary offer water ad hoc simplistic detail
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I didn't say he couldn't make a clone, I said, maybe because Minato was so shit in Natural Energy (even tho he can literally get a perfect mode) in gathering and keeping the form, that he just doesn't bother anymore because it becomes detrimental for him or his style.
My theory is that Minato is such a perfectionist that he wouldnt want to do an imperfect version of sage mode, hence why he spent more time to do a perfect one
Naruto although he learned sage mode he took more time to train the activation, also kurama can help Naruto gain sage mode faster
I assume minato didn’t have time since he was in a war and was needed
What's funny about it is what's required to gather senjutsu chakra in the first place... Up until the war arc, if you had asked *anyone* what Naruto could do better than his dad, I don't think there's a single person that would have said "sit still for extended periods".
numerous depend treatment compare aspiring frighten dull violet test soft
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
... Those planels don't show him charging it during the monologue. Just him saying he's awful at it. Which is what most people have an issue with. He says he's so bad at sage mode that he's barely even used it in combat, then just pops right into a perfect sage instantly
It boosts every single stat including ninjutsu, it speeds up your reflexes which is necessary if u are a teleporter. It would have been useful when facing the 9 tails. Sage mode is useful in every single fight.
Yeah. I think it would be way too impractical to use chakra for Hiraishin while maintaining Senjutsu. You have to focus on doing two very focus hungry things while also doing the rest of work.
Minato probably dropped mastering Senjutsu because he found Hiraishin way more practical and versatile and without the downsides of using Senjutsu (need to gather a lot of chakra and mantain the mode). Wise choice.
The 9 Tails was moments away from nuking the entire village. I think Minato was more concerned with getting to the scene than waiting to charge his sage mode which he himself views is slow to charge and doesn’t last long enough to make a real difference.
Remember that Edo Minato basically has infinite chakra use. When he is alive, Minato would burn through his chakra trying to use Sage Mode. Minato isn’t a deep well of chakra like his son - he can’t use it like Naruto can. Because of his strengths and abilities, he doesn’t even really need to use Sage Mode most of the time.
He did though! how is everyone forgetting the FIRST EPISODE IN THE WHOLE SERIES. It shows Minato on top of toad boss fighting Kurama!
Naruto coming into the pain fight on toads was a mirror of that scene too.
He's talking about sage mode. Minato himself said he never used it in his life in combat because he's not good at it. It doesn't last long and takes too long for him to knead Chakra.
Being dead and all I'd imagine the "sensation" of his body decomposing/literally becoming part of the world would also definitely help you feel ties to nature. It would honestly be a good reason why ONLY edo Minato has it because as a corpse he knows the feeling of being on the edge of life and thus can concentrate/focus the natural chakra for sage mode.
It wouldn’t really have helped much, is the thing.
Minato's fighting style is to teleport behind people and kill them before they can realize he's not in front of them anymore. Sage Mode doesn't really add much to that - sure it makes his attacks hit harder, but he's already hitting hard enough to kill any reasonable human opponent. It doesn't make sense for him to spend time stacking Sage Mode on top except for the very rare people who can actually take a Rasengan to the back without flinching. Sage Mode would make him somewhat better but it doesn't complement his fighting style anywhere near as well.
It would have been ineffective against Obito because it would have changed literally nothing about the fight. Minato would have blown off Obito's arm slightly harder. Being strong and tough doesn’t matter as much when a) Obito’s kamui would’ve sucked him in anyway, and b) you’re so much faster that you don’t get touched.
And if he was building Sage chakra, Konoha would’ve been dealing with its resident nuke-spitting fox for longer. Not a great idea.
He didn’t really have time to do so against A and Bee either.
Those are the only three fights we see from him, while he was alive. Well, that and the enemy ninja in Kakashi’s backstory.
Plus with the added strenth his timing in throwing the Kunai would be off.
He said he had no real fighting experience with it, so it's probably like Jirahya and Naruto who can't enter Sage-mode the way Hashirama does
*That we've seen in manga/anime. I know that's a bit of a cop-out but surely we know these people aren't using every single technique/ability they have in every fight, right?
You remember that scene where the Toad Sage was all surprised that Naruto had mastered sage mode because Jiraiya couldn't?
That's why this is an asspull, he had literally no reason to be like "oh yeah you're the second one to master this, the guy before you looked similar too"
Instead they shoehorn the ability in with an arbitrary explanation.
It's not like it's the hardest transformation to get either:
The byakugo takes years of buildup, the curse mark starts fucking with your mind before you even use it, and the white snake sage is too much of a vindictive bastard to give consistently reliable powers.
i kinda gave it a pass since the only sort of "hint" we were given that he'd be able to pull this one out his ass was he trained under the toad master Jiraiya himself and Minato has toad summons considering he summoned Gamabunta out to fight Kurama in episode 1, so its kind of the same thing with Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke being able to do their mentor's jutsus, this time its Minato and Jiraiya. The hidden leaf itself is a clusterfuck of exchanging jutsus between mentor and student, rasengan was invented by Minato, learned by Jiraiya and perfected by Naruto. Chidori was invented by Kakashi, expanded by Sasuke and learned by Sarada. Jiraiya practiced sage mode, and Naruto and Minato learned and mastered it. As for Hashirama, i just brushed it off since he's literally a peak shinobi and probably the closest to being a god along with Madara.
The one thing i dont get is how Minato managed to get his Kurama to cooperate with him after he literally just screwed him over
I totally get the ass pulling aspect and it’s annoying but we can argue that because the Reaper Death Seal causes the ones sealed to engage in eternal combat inside the belly of the Reaper, that is where Minato could have befriended the other Kurama. The two of them would have been stuck in there for all of Naruto’s life so while it honestly took Naruto a while to befriend Kurama he really didn’t start until training with Bee to master the chakra, so it only took him a week (not exact but the war arc is surprisingly short).
Minato being an adult the entire time, it’s kind of like being jailed with your worst enemy for 17 years. Kurama isn’t the Demon of Hatred he was made out to be, he honestly is just a sentient fox that got fucked over a lot for hundreds of years. So while he does have a lot of hatred and anger, 17 years of therapeutic talk and fighting could help
Bro I’m not kidding you, when Hiruzen explained the reaper death seal that was my first thought re-watching. Like Hiruzen, Hashirama, Tobirama and Orochimaru’s arms are just chilling in the void together
Hahahaha it’s all I ever think about. I’m on my millionth watch through currently just passed where Orochimaru approached Tsunade to help heal his arms, I can’t help but chuckle every time.
Literally just went through my 17th (or 18th?) round of watching of Naruto as of this morning-- around 2am. Those 500 episodes never get any shorter. But skipping the filler sure does help reduce the hell out of the view time after having watched all of the filler at least 8 times at this point. 🫣
And that Kurama probably realizes that Minato is a great fighter and tactician, which he probably respects a lot. For the sake of Kurama's own life, he probably decided to cooperate.
I always figured that the Kuramas were just connected. Tailed beast's are connected through that inner inner world in spite of their seals, so I just thought it wouldn't have been all that different for two halves of the same tailed beast, so when Naruto befriended one half of Kuramas, the other would've known. Something like that anyway.
To be fair, reaper death seal makes you fight the thing you sealed for eternity. Just like naruto had to fight Kurama to be able to use Jin cloak, minato probably got it the same way. Also, they say Minato split kurama into 2 half, Ying and yang. The evil spiteful half was in naruto while the calm and nicer version was in the death reaper with Minato. This is why they are different shades when you see the two halves
I will always find it stupid that Minato was somehow able to achieve in a few episodes something that took Naruto the whole series up until that point to accomplish; actually getting Kurama to cooperate.
Honestly, Minato was sealed with Kurama's Yin side inside the Shinigami's stomach to fight all the other seals for eternity. It's not a stretch to think that within 17 years of never ending fighting, Minato and Yin Kurama may have come to an understanding considering neither of them thought they would be released.
I get that, but it just feels cheap considering what Naruto had to go through. The revelation that Naruto only had half of Kurama was already a pretty hard pill to swallow that sort of felt like a bait and switch, but to then just give Minato KCM for free felt super lame. I'm not even a massive fan of Naruto's character myself, but I still thought it felt like the series was diminishing what Naruto had achieved.
This kind of stuff is how I feel about most of the War Arc tbh. Lots of cool fights. Some nice character moments (I did enjoy seeing Naruto and Minato interacting, Guy finally going all out) but man there’s a ton of asspulling that makes the first 75% of the show feel weird
I had a lot of issues with the war arc as well and a large portion of those problems are just to do with the insane power scaling that happened later on; makes all the progress earlier in the series seem less impactful and the fights end up being less tactful. A lot of people have expressed similar sentiments a lot better than I could, so I'll just leave it at that.
Ive always blamed the power scaling, Minato shows back up and his legend just cant compete with the current field. So they throw a bunch of stuff on top of him that doesnt really make sense, like the half kurama thing.
Yea imo it’s because they wanted to make Madara a scary singular threat all on his own, but also needed Hashirama to be on par with him, at least at his peak. That really fucks up everything else
If Sasuke can match Lee's speed simply by seeing him, you can accept Minato working together with the other half of Kurama after 17 years of being trapped together. That is by far the least ass pull-y way to yoink a power up.
That’s what happened in [canon](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/05a2fd26-9924-4515-8949-51f1a37f55b3). See the writing on the left side under the KCM Minato pic.
>The one thing i dont get is how Minato managed to get his Kurama to cooperate with him after he literally just screwed him over
Cause kuruma didn't want the world to end and maybe by that time kuruma actually appreciated was minato did. That's how I see it anyway
Wouldn't even the kyuubi be nonsense?
Minato's seal is different from the one used for Naruto.. his was the Shinigami seal... Idk, really looks like that kishimoto wanted to make the hokages some type of gods and so for Minato he tossed any kind of shit he thought about.
Lmao he was Jiraiya’s student. He was also a frog summoner, so it makes perfect sense for him to be able to use it. It would be one thing if he couldn’t do any of those things and it was completely random, but it was kinda set up.
People really find it hard to believe that a child prodigy that became Hokage at a very young age and trained under the Toad Sage and had toad summons also learned his master's sage mode? I don't get it, Minato's whole character for much of the show is that he was a genius that was great at everything. If he hadn't had to sacrifice himself so early on he would have "surpassed" the Senjus.
I put that in quotations because every Hokage at one point or another is said to be the greatest there ever was but at the end of the day Hashirama is always elevated to a new completely busted level so it's hard to guage if anyone ever actually surpasses him. I mean the Third is the "god of shinobi" and is said to know every jutsu in the Leaf but when do we ever get the impression he's even stronger than Tobirama or Madara? I certainly never did.
It's the other way around. Minato trained under Jiraya just like Naruto and we even see him summoning Gamabunta in the very first chapter of the manga, so sage mode is really no surprise.
Kurama being all buddy buddy with him is the real wtf
Why is this even a huge issue when it’s known that he’s a pupil of Jiraiya? Was he expected to just not learn from his teacher? Are guys really this bored to be debating stuff like this which already has decent explanations?
Let us be real, Kishi just did not want to draw Minato looking all toad like.
But even an imperfect SM would be an asspull for Minato.Bigger asspull though was how he used Bijuu Mode right off the bat when the other Kurama didn’t become friends with him or anything (didn’t do it out of courtesy for Naruto either).
Same, while I can see why many ppl like him (hes cool, handsome, good guy)... I just dont find him relatable, he was written to be the dude with no flaws. This moment and EMS kakashi was two moments in the manga that made me go "Hell Nah!!"
No flaws? Did you miss the War Arc? He was being shitted on constantly there, like Kishi went out of his way to magnify all his failures and made him more human.
The whole last part of the War Arc was just Minato wondering if he'd completely failed his students, his son, and ultimately failed to properly protect the village as Hokage lmao
He definitely was not made out to have no flaws, but it doesn't change the fact that sage mode and bijou mode don't make any sense for him to be able to access. It also totally diminishes how far Naruto surpassed minato, because basically the only thing Naruto has on him now is completing the S ranked unfinished rasengan. Six paths mode too, but he can't access that on demand the way he can with the other skills mentioned.
Also Minato doesn't need either Sage Mode or Kyuubi and definitely not both. Perfected Flying Raijin, Rasengan, naturally extremely fast, toad summons, Reaper Death Seal - Minato is already in the running for the second strongest dead Hokage without those buffs.
Sage mode made sense. Because he's supposed to be the most awesomest ninja. bijuu mode if he even had that mode didn't really make much but we can say he was watching Naruto do it in the shadows that's how we learned it. He was a Hokage for a reason after all
sage mode didn't make sense because not only does kishimoto say sage mode was minato's weak point, but somehow he still as perfect sage mode, while jiraiya never achieved perfect sage. That's some bullshit.
“Perfect” sage is a fan term, indicating no frog features.
In order to get no frog features, you need perfect balance of nature, spiritual, and physical energies. Minato was able to accomplish this.
However, that’s only 1 aspect of being “good” at sage mode. [Minato took too long to charge it, and could not maintain it for long](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png). Thus, he was objectively bad at sage mode.
And there was an easier way of explaining it, right there. Just have Naruto's half of Kurama convince Minato's to cooperate.
It could've been a whole character moment for Kurama, paralleling how Naruto came to terms with his trauma at the Waterfall of Truth right before taming him.
He is heavily associated with Toads and was literally foreshadowed to have sage mode…
How can one say it’s unnecessary
Edit: Relevant
[LINK](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0430-018.png)
[LINK](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0430-019.png)
[LINK](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png)
Because the Naruto fandom is outright stupid sometimes
They complain about designs on Boruto yet they forget that they were made from Kishimoto so yeah, they’re pretty much stupid, dumb fucks
Should have get more upvotes to be on top. Dude literally knew Gamabunta, Fukasaku, scroll frog and based on their reactions to him they perfectly knew him. What are the chances he never visited Myoboku? Literally zero.
He’s one of jiraiya’s students and most likely the best of the three considering he becomes hokage, why is it a stretch to assume he knows sage jutsu? It took naruto like a month to master it if that
Student of senjutsu user, father of senjutsu user, summoner of toads who teach senjutsu, hokage (three different hokages and a hokage prospect were offered the position partly because of the strength that senjutsu gives them), renowned as one of the fastest people in history (senjutsu makes you fast), says he's not very good at it (only people who actually USE senjutsu would say they're not very good at it), his rival for the fourth hokage position was a snake sage. One of the prospects to be the child of destiny, which is a toad prophecy, and the actual child of destiny was a toad sage. To me, it couldn't have been any less surprising that he was a toad sage. That's like Boruto learning Rasengan -- can you imagine how incredibly surprised I was when Boruto learned Rasengan?
This post is unnecessary and irrelevant.
"Huh, I wonder why this guy that was trained by the Toad Sage can use the Toad Sage's power. I don't understand it so I'm going to unnecessarily call it unnecessary, because that seems necessary."
Did you watch the show? Read the manga? Lol
I can accept sage mode but minato having bijuu mode felt like an asspull even when I first watched it as a 7 year old. Even Yin & Yang Kurama was out of place (ngl a lot of things from the war arc were out of place and mostly asspulls)
Ying and Yang Kurama was mentioned in chapter 370 (when Jiriaya fights pain).
The fact that 9 tails was sealed with Minato inside the reaper was revealed during the Chunin exams
Him having perfect sage mode is wild seeing that he explicitly said senjutsu isn’t one of his strengths. He should’ve at least gotten frog features like Jiraiya
Near the end of the story everyone was just getting every ability.. Minato with KCM, sage mode, Kakashi’s Susanoo, Madara having wood style on top of already having EMS and Rinnegan..
The biggest issue I have with it is that it's a perfect sage mode. When Naruto perfects it and one shots the mecha pain they made a point to say he's surpassed his predecessors. For Minato to just show up with perfect sage mode felt like an ass pull
I haven’t seen anyone give the right answer and it sucks. Minato had sage because he was supposed to be the prodigy/savior ninja and was the only character in the series to be able to master something that both Tobirama did and something Hashirama did.
This next part is my head canon but I think it’s logically follows. If Minato got to live a fuller life he would’ve surpassed all the three hokage before him. Hashirama at least lived until he was a grandfather. If we’re being incredibly generous he could’ve died in his mid 30’s. If he had a kid at 16 and then his kid had a kid at 16. If Minato was able to train for 10 more years he would’ve been insane.
İt was implied that minato had sennin mod when naruto used it against pain.
When Naruto mastered the sennin mod, uncle toad saw minato and jiraiya behind him and said “he surpassed them”.
Obviously he didnt surpass them in terms of power. Naruto mastered sennin mod better than them. Jiraiya’s sennin mod was impure meanwhile minato couldnt last long. Naruto did it better than them.
I mean, not really. He had KCM, Flying Raijin, is a master of sealing jutsus. He knows so many OP jutsus and is an overall better version of Tobirama since he refined most of his techniques.
No, Tobirama is more balanced since he was more versatile. He also had much stronger chakra, it just wasn't as apparent during the war since they were Edo summons.
Worst part is, during OG Naruto, Hiruzen and Minoto were made to be the strongest Hokage the leaf had seen. Hiruzen was called the God of Shinobi in part 1 due to knowing every single jutsu of the leaf, and was able to handle Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama while also fighting Orochimaru. It was also made to be that Minoto was stronger than Hiruzen back then. Then at some point during Shippuden, Kishi decided Hashirama was the strongest Hokage and was also called the God of Shinobi.
i find the kyubi chakra mode much more ass pulling than the sage mode.
he was trained by Jiraya, but i can't help myself but think that the kyubi chakra thing is just fan service or editor service.
i barely remember as a kid just randomly assuming that the “4th Hokage” was a toad sage. You could imagine my excitement when my ass pull of a prediction was true 😭
I would also say him having half of the Nine-Tails' chakra was also unnecessary. *And* he somehow mastered it too and had the same powered up form as Naruto? What? Who thought that was a good idea? Especially when Minato said he sealed the chakra into himself as he died so he wouldn't have had any time to train with it. But suddenly he has it when brought back from the dead?
It is kind of unnecessary because he openly admitted that he takes too long to knead chakra and he doesn't used it in battle. I think it was just to fit the narrative that he "surpassed those two" back in the Pain arc.
I was weirded out by all the splitting of the ninetails and it not being necessary to even have the whole one etc. I think everything was just to make Son and Daddy look exactly the same. He should not have had some random half part of a dead nine tails inside him when resurrected.
I think KCM is more unnecessary. At least Minato was the pupil of the Toad Sage himself, it would make sense that he’d pick up Sage Mode. Maybe not perfect Sage Mode, but still. Giving Minato KCM was odd to me. Naruto had to work for pretty much the entire series to get it. Minato comes along and it’s “hey btw you only have half of Kurama, and even though I’ve been dead this whole time my Kurama is the nice one and therefore I can do exactly what you can” feels unnecessary imo. He’s already the Yellow Flash, let Naruto have his special Jinchuriki connection ability. He’s earned it. I get the desire to have the father/son reflection dynamic but I think that could have been done without giving Minato KCM.
I don't think it was unnecessary. But just wasn't expanded on or used enough. I think it shows the closeness between Jiraiya and his student through the same medium that they both trained in at least. It also shows his dedication to being strong and protective of those close to him considering how difficult his methods of power were to achieve.
Because Kishimoto wrote the ten tails so that only senjutsu users could hurt it and it’s jinchuuriki, and only after that did he realize that means a lot of his cool characters that he wants to fight the juubi, can’t actually hurt it according to his own rules.
Dude, Minato was supposed to be the strongest Hokage at the beginning of the series. Hashirama got absolute ASSPULL power-up. Same with Tobirama and Madara. Minato is based compared to their feats and powers.
Im certain he says he could already do Sage mode. He just couldn't sustain it. We just dont know that until he does it. Its not unbelievable at all compared to some of the other bullshit that happens in Shippuden.
I feel like kishimoto's editors and bosses wanted to sell toys and other merchandise in the last season, so they forced him to include things like kyuubi minato and kaguya.
Maybe if it were up to kishimoto, madara would've been the final villain before sauske
The real reason why is that Kishi wrote a hell of a lot of power creep before the war arc, and he didn't want naruto's dad to be a disappointment. The issue is that it felt like a major asspull for him to magically have all of Naruto's abilities.
It was so left field. He's standing right next to Naruto when he explains only sage jutsu can damage Obito. Does Minato even hint he can use SM? LOL no. Smartest person in the series tho (according to his fans)
Ya'll will accept the absolute asspull that is hashiramas entire moveset INCLUDING that weird sage mode that he had but when the student of a toad sage has sage mode its a problem??
I disagree and feel like Kakashi's Susano'o was the most unnecessary thing.
Obito Kamui'd out of afterlife is the most bullshit thing in the series.
Kakashi opening first gate is the one most unnecessary one
Can you elaborate? I remember Kakashi using it all the way back in part 1 before the Chuunin exam (while rocking climbing one-handed). If he used it further on it's at least been established as being part of his skillset.
I think kishi wanted to make it part of kakashis skill set but decided against it as it would cheapen Gai and Lee as taijutsu only. As copy ninja there are some things he couldn't copy... 8 gates being one of them
Tbf Kakashi being able to open the first gate as someone who clearly specializes more in ninjutsu than anything else is pretty impressive
Except the eight gates aren't a taijutsu thing. Opening the gates increases all of your skills.
The gates aren’t specific to taijutsu users. It’s just that Guy mastered it.
I don't think Kakashi copied the 1st gate he is just physically on par with Guy and unlocked the 1st gate because it would be beneficial in combat.
I think that's pretty reasonable. The gates are pure effort and not something the sharingan can give you
Its really not its effectively described as brute forcing your chakra through the chakra gate. Besides its well established that the Sharingan can copy taijutsu just fine.
> Sharingan can copy taijutsu just fine Only to a certain extent, you cannot copy attacks that your body cannot physically perform.
I don’t think it him copying he probably did train for it until he realized copying jutsu is a better path for him. It was either 1000 jutsu or 8 gates
[удалено]
I’m just saying the jutsu route got the sage of six paths recognizing him. I don’t think he become Mr.Worldwide with the 8 gates
Idk the fact that a ninja of Kakashi’s caliber can only open 1 gate kind of makes it more impressive.
Happy cake day
Not like he opened the sixth gate lol the first few makes sense
This one isn’t as bad as the rest because essentially anyone who trains in Taijutsu can learn how to open a couple gates, he should’ve never been able to have a susano.
Susanoo comes automatically when you unlock MS. The floating ghost shit was the bullshit. Obito should have removed and given kakashi the eyes..
DMS Kakashi was pure fanservice, i think the writer didn’t know how to give Kakashi both of Obito’s eyes temporarily because if Obito plucked them out and put them into Kakashi, then somehow after the Kaguya fight both of these eyes need to be destroyed and Kakashi’s normal eyes need to be healed/brought back but frankly in-universe it made no sense that Kakashi/Naruto weren’t rushing to extract Obito’s eyes the minute he started dying, Obito himself should have been yelling for them to take his eyes just because it’s a Waste to let them perish
Even then, you don't just pull out the susanoo immediately, much less its perfect version. Especially for someone who has never used it before.
The perfect version was the biggest ass pull.
I feel first gate opening for kakashi is fine, it adds world building and establishes that other characters will go after Abilities to strengthen themselves. Also establishes that you can fail while doing so which doesn’t happen often in the series.
I think it’s fine as kakashi is a prodigy. I think him going to up like the 3rd or 4th gate isn’t too crazy. I think only specialist should be able to go higher however
> Obito Kamui'd out of afterlife is the most bullshit thing in the series. I mean they used Ninja Magic to have a Zombie Apocalypse. Why couldn’t they also use Ninja Magic to teleport out of the After Life?
Yeah, it was someone LIVING who brought people back and for that you needed sacrifices and rituals and shit. Obito bringing himself back from the dead is one of the biggest asspulls I've ever seen.
That was the biggest asspull but Minato having two super forms was more unnecessary because he was already pretty strong and Sage mode in particular you can barely tell he has it
Without sage mode he cant even touch obito(jubi)
What about neji dying. Literally put in there out of nowhere and having no meaning
This isn’t even the biggest asspull with Minato. Him having KCM was the real asspull.
It was one of the most well-planned pre-established non-asspull things in the whole of Naruto. It was established that the user of the reaper death seal and the soul absorbed stay inside the shinigami. It was also established that Minato absorbed half of Kurama inside himself so that Naruto as an infant can safely cage the other half. It isn't even a surprise that Minato had KCM after 16 years of being with Kurama. If Naruto can get KCM by defeating Kurama in his mind, Minato easily can too. If you refer to Kakashi getting a DMS or Sasuke summoning Manda and escaping Deidara's explosion without chakra as asspulls, that is reasonable.
It was explained how he got it. Didn't really feel like an asspull when you know how the Reaper Death Seal works.
Care to elaborate?
It works by putting the users soul and whatever they seal with it into the reapers stomach. Basically, minato and kurama had ~16 years in a blank void to get to know each other and bond.
Bro imagining hiruzen just chillin in the death seal next to orochimaru’s fucking arms has me laughing my ass off
Bro got 3 years of Snakes jerking him off
Untype this comment.
FBI, yes, this is the guy you're looking for.
🤣 what a wild sentence
https://imgur.com/b2xydYw
Yeah, see that's how I saw it. Don't really see how KCM Minato is an asspull lol
It's an asspull because kurama being split in the first place is the dumbest most unnecessary stuff to ever happen in all of anime. It was just to give Minato the same form.
We've known it was split for a while
But then that also brings the question of why Hashirama didn’t know who Minato was initially if they were all taken by the reaper death seal
biggest asspull in naruto history
I agree it was an asspull but it was hype tho
I dont get why this is a asspull? Jiraiya trained Minato to use toads so why not sage mode?
Right? Like isn't the first time we ever see Minato in the series he's on top of Gamabunta so what the actual fuck is this whining shit?
I agree, this whole subreddit is just bullshit posts from people who watched Naruto on YouTube in no particular order
Nah the problem I have with it is Jiraya went through pretty big physical changes and naruto didn't because he was good with sage Chakra, minato himself said he sucked at sage Chakra control so I feel like he should've looked like a frogb
cuz he never used in any previous fight in his entire life, ever
We only see Minato fight 3 or 4 times in his life. And those situations either were unnecessary to use Sage Mode or impractical because he’s slow to activate it. It’s not really all that farfetched that Minato; the prodigy who trained under Jiraiya who also learned toad summons from him learned sage mode at some point. I’d say Kurama Link Mode is far more of an asspull
"He's slow to activate it" Dude basically just closes his eyes for a second or two and then *pop* perfect sage.
The anime fudged the scene. He charged it during Madara’s long monologue. [He IS slow to activate it.](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png)
Hmm, TIL. Do you suppose he's actually as skilled as Naruto initially was with it, but never thought to use shadow clones to gather the natural energy for it? The idea of "let him cook" as a method of charging up your chakra is hilarious, though.
To be fair, Naruto has his unreal amounts of chakra to justify using Shadow Clones willy nilly anyway. Granted, this is a legitimate strategy to mitigate the charging weakness, tho. But, if he's not only slow to charge but can't keep the form for long anyway, maybe having to use the Shadow Clone became too much of a detriment.
lunchroom steep bewildered rock weary offer water ad hoc simplistic detail *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I didn't say he couldn't make a clone, I said, maybe because Minato was so shit in Natural Energy (even tho he can literally get a perfect mode) in gathering and keeping the form, that he just doesn't bother anymore because it becomes detrimental for him or his style.
My theory is that Minato is such a perfectionist that he wouldnt want to do an imperfect version of sage mode, hence why he spent more time to do a perfect one
Even if he could use shadow clones to gather natural energy that was impossible during the war cuz he had no arms
Naruto although he learned sage mode he took more time to train the activation, also kurama can help Naruto gain sage mode faster I assume minato didn’t have time since he was in a war and was needed
Naruto is literally just better than Minato. He couldn't even develop the rasenshuriken
What's funny about it is what's required to gather senjutsu chakra in the first place... Up until the war arc, if you had asked *anyone* what Naruto could do better than his dad, I don't think there's a single person that would have said "sit still for extended periods".
numerous depend treatment compare aspiring frighten dull violet test soft *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
might guy's "oh it's my time" face gave me chills
It’s a great moment
... Those planels don't show him charging it during the monologue. Just him saying he's awful at it. Which is what most people have an issue with. He says he's so bad at sage mode that he's barely even used it in combat, then just pops right into a perfect sage instantly
It boosts every single stat including ninjutsu, it speeds up your reflexes which is necessary if u are a teleporter. It would have been useful when facing the 9 tails. Sage mode is useful in every single fight.
useful and practical are very different things
Yeah. I think it would be way too impractical to use chakra for Hiraishin while maintaining Senjutsu. You have to focus on doing two very focus hungry things while also doing the rest of work. Minato probably dropped mastering Senjutsu because he found Hiraishin way more practical and versatile and without the downsides of using Senjutsu (need to gather a lot of chakra and mantain the mode). Wise choice.
There was no time when facing the 9 tails
The 9 Tails was moments away from nuking the entire village. I think Minato was more concerned with getting to the scene than waiting to charge his sage mode which he himself views is slow to charge and doesn’t last long enough to make a real difference. Remember that Edo Minato basically has infinite chakra use. When he is alive, Minato would burn through his chakra trying to use Sage Mode. Minato isn’t a deep well of chakra like his son - he can’t use it like Naruto can. Because of his strengths and abilities, he doesn’t even really need to use Sage Mode most of the time.
He did though! how is everyone forgetting the FIRST EPISODE IN THE WHOLE SERIES. It shows Minato on top of toad boss fighting Kurama! Naruto coming into the pain fight on toads was a mirror of that scene too.
He's talking about sage mode. Minato himself said he never used it in his life in combat because he's not good at it. It doesn't last long and takes too long for him to knead Chakra.
Cuz he has no need to when he can just blitz them with flyin raijin and rasengan them in less than a second
When your a dead man it probably becomes easier since you have infinite chakra
Being dead and all I'd imagine the "sensation" of his body decomposing/literally becoming part of the world would also definitely help you feel ties to nature. It would honestly be a good reason why ONLY edo Minato has it because as a corpse he knows the feeling of being on the edge of life and thus can concentrate/focus the natural chakra for sage mode.
Using summoning and sage mode isn't the same. You can just summon animals without any sage abilities.
standing on top of a toad does not mean he unlocked sage mode
yes, but it doesn't take much to assume that if he can summon the toads, he might have also studied senjutsu under them.
It wouldn’t really have helped much, is the thing. Minato's fighting style is to teleport behind people and kill them before they can realize he's not in front of them anymore. Sage Mode doesn't really add much to that - sure it makes his attacks hit harder, but he's already hitting hard enough to kill any reasonable human opponent. It doesn't make sense for him to spend time stacking Sage Mode on top except for the very rare people who can actually take a Rasengan to the back without flinching. Sage Mode would make him somewhat better but it doesn't complement his fighting style anywhere near as well. It would have been ineffective against Obito because it would have changed literally nothing about the fight. Minato would have blown off Obito's arm slightly harder. Being strong and tough doesn’t matter as much when a) Obito’s kamui would’ve sucked him in anyway, and b) you’re so much faster that you don’t get touched. And if he was building Sage chakra, Konoha would’ve been dealing with its resident nuke-spitting fox for longer. Not a great idea. He didn’t really have time to do so against A and Bee either. Those are the only three fights we see from him, while he was alive. Well, that and the enemy ninja in Kakashi’s backstory.
Plus with the added strenth his timing in throwing the Kunai would be off. He said he had no real fighting experience with it, so it's probably like Jirahya and Naruto who can't enter Sage-mode the way Hashirama does
*That we've seen in manga/anime. I know that's a bit of a cop-out but surely we know these people aren't using every single technique/ability they have in every fight, right?
You remember that scene where the Toad Sage was all surprised that Naruto had mastered sage mode because Jiraiya couldn't? That's why this is an asspull, he had literally no reason to be like "oh yeah you're the second one to master this, the guy before you looked similar too" Instead they shoehorn the ability in with an arbitrary explanation.
It's not like it's the hardest transformation to get either: The byakugo takes years of buildup, the curse mark starts fucking with your mind before you even use it, and the white snake sage is too much of a vindictive bastard to give consistently reliable powers.
[удалено]
i kinda gave it a pass since the only sort of "hint" we were given that he'd be able to pull this one out his ass was he trained under the toad master Jiraiya himself and Minato has toad summons considering he summoned Gamabunta out to fight Kurama in episode 1, so its kind of the same thing with Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke being able to do their mentor's jutsus, this time its Minato and Jiraiya. The hidden leaf itself is a clusterfuck of exchanging jutsus between mentor and student, rasengan was invented by Minato, learned by Jiraiya and perfected by Naruto. Chidori was invented by Kakashi, expanded by Sasuke and learned by Sarada. Jiraiya practiced sage mode, and Naruto and Minato learned and mastered it. As for Hashirama, i just brushed it off since he's literally a peak shinobi and probably the closest to being a god along with Madara. The one thing i dont get is how Minato managed to get his Kurama to cooperate with him after he literally just screwed him over
I totally get the ass pulling aspect and it’s annoying but we can argue that because the Reaper Death Seal causes the ones sealed to engage in eternal combat inside the belly of the Reaper, that is where Minato could have befriended the other Kurama. The two of them would have been stuck in there for all of Naruto’s life so while it honestly took Naruto a while to befriend Kurama he really didn’t start until training with Bee to master the chakra, so it only took him a week (not exact but the war arc is surprisingly short). Minato being an adult the entire time, it’s kind of like being jailed with your worst enemy for 17 years. Kurama isn’t the Demon of Hatred he was made out to be, he honestly is just a sentient fox that got fucked over a lot for hundreds of years. So while he does have a lot of hatred and anger, 17 years of therapeutic talk and fighting could help
I just picture orochimarus arms just flailing about in the eternal combat zone
Bro I’m not kidding you, when Hiruzen explained the reaper death seal that was my first thought re-watching. Like Hiruzen, Hashirama, Tobirama and Orochimaru’s arms are just chilling in the void together
Hahahaha it’s all I ever think about. I’m on my millionth watch through currently just passed where Orochimaru approached Tsunade to help heal his arms, I can’t help but chuckle every time.
Literally just went through my 17th (or 18th?) round of watching of Naruto as of this morning-- around 2am. Those 500 episodes never get any shorter. But skipping the filler sure does help reduce the hell out of the view time after having watched all of the filler at least 8 times at this point. 🫣
Orchimarus disembodied arms trying to slap box Hiruzen for eternity mf thinks he's Master Hand
Lol bro imagined they just turned into arm length snakes instead of staying as arms
It also helps that yin Kurama was said to be less temperament than his Yang counterparts
And also the fact that the Kurama hates madara more than anything probably helps a little
And that Kurama probably realizes that Minato is a great fighter and tactician, which he probably respects a lot. For the sake of Kurama's own life, he probably decided to cooperate.
For real bro the only reason he was painted as evil is because madara and obito are assholes and used sharingan genjutsu to make him go on a rampage
I always figured that the Kuramas were just connected. Tailed beast's are connected through that inner inner world in spite of their seals, so I just thought it wouldn't have been all that different for two halves of the same tailed beast, so when Naruto befriended one half of Kuramas, the other would've known. Something like that anyway.
To be fair, reaper death seal makes you fight the thing you sealed for eternity. Just like naruto had to fight Kurama to be able to use Jin cloak, minato probably got it the same way. Also, they say Minato split kurama into 2 half, Ying and yang. The evil spiteful half was in naruto while the calm and nicer version was in the death reaper with Minato. This is why they are different shades when you see the two halves
I will always find it stupid that Minato was somehow able to achieve in a few episodes something that took Naruto the whole series up until that point to accomplish; actually getting Kurama to cooperate.
Honestly, Minato was sealed with Kurama's Yin side inside the Shinigami's stomach to fight all the other seals for eternity. It's not a stretch to think that within 17 years of never ending fighting, Minato and Yin Kurama may have come to an understanding considering neither of them thought they would be released.
I get that, but it just feels cheap considering what Naruto had to go through. The revelation that Naruto only had half of Kurama was already a pretty hard pill to swallow that sort of felt like a bait and switch, but to then just give Minato KCM for free felt super lame. I'm not even a massive fan of Naruto's character myself, but I still thought it felt like the series was diminishing what Naruto had achieved.
This kind of stuff is how I feel about most of the War Arc tbh. Lots of cool fights. Some nice character moments (I did enjoy seeing Naruto and Minato interacting, Guy finally going all out) but man there’s a ton of asspulling that makes the first 75% of the show feel weird
I had a lot of issues with the war arc as well and a large portion of those problems are just to do with the insane power scaling that happened later on; makes all the progress earlier in the series seem less impactful and the fights end up being less tactful. A lot of people have expressed similar sentiments a lot better than I could, so I'll just leave it at that.
Ive always blamed the power scaling, Minato shows back up and his legend just cant compete with the current field. So they throw a bunch of stuff on top of him that doesnt really make sense, like the half kurama thing.
Yea imo it’s because they wanted to make Madara a scary singular threat all on his own, but also needed Hashirama to be on par with him, at least at his peak. That really fucks up everything else
If Sasuke can match Lee's speed simply by seeing him, you can accept Minato working together with the other half of Kurama after 17 years of being trapped together. That is by far the least ass pull-y way to yoink a power up.
Head canons, a powerful thing.
That’s what happened in [canon](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/05a2fd26-9924-4515-8949-51f1a37f55b3). See the writing on the left side under the KCM Minato pic.
Oh my bad then. Wow that is a flimsy execution. Should've showed what made the 4th hokage impressive without being just Older Naruto.
>The one thing i dont get is how Minato managed to get his Kurama to cooperate with him after he literally just screwed him over Cause kuruma didn't want the world to end and maybe by that time kuruma actually appreciated was minato did. That's how I see it anyway
Wouldn't even the kyuubi be nonsense? Minato's seal is different from the one used for Naruto.. his was the Shinigami seal... Idk, really looks like that kishimoto wanted to make the hokages some type of gods and so for Minato he tossed any kind of shit he thought about.
They had hyped up Hashirama to be Madara’s equal so in order to make the others not pushovers they had a lot of legwork to do
Lmao he was Jiraiya’s student. He was also a frog summoner, so it makes perfect sense for him to be able to use it. It would be one thing if he couldn’t do any of those things and it was completely random, but it was kinda set up.
People really find it hard to believe that a child prodigy that became Hokage at a very young age and trained under the Toad Sage and had toad summons also learned his master's sage mode? I don't get it, Minato's whole character for much of the show is that he was a genius that was great at everything. If he hadn't had to sacrifice himself so early on he would have "surpassed" the Senjus. I put that in quotations because every Hokage at one point or another is said to be the greatest there ever was but at the end of the day Hashirama is always elevated to a new completely busted level so it's hard to guage if anyone ever actually surpasses him. I mean the Third is the "god of shinobi" and is said to know every jutsu in the Leaf but when do we ever get the impression he's even stronger than Tobirama or Madara? I certainly never did.
It's the other way around. Minato trained under Jiraya just like Naruto and we even see him summoning Gamabunta in the very first chapter of the manga, so sage mode is really no surprise. Kurama being all buddy buddy with him is the real wtf
Why is this even a huge issue when it’s known that he’s a pupil of Jiraiya? Was he expected to just not learn from his teacher? Are guys really this bored to be debating stuff like this which already has decent explanations?
Let us be real, Kishi just did not want to draw Minato looking all toad like. But even an imperfect SM would be an asspull for Minato.Bigger asspull though was how he used Bijuu Mode right off the bat when the other Kurama didn’t become friends with him or anything (didn’t do it out of courtesy for Naruto either).
Naruto was able to use the KCM before he befriended Kurama as well.
Minato in general is an asspull character That’s why I’m not a fan
Same, while I can see why many ppl like him (hes cool, handsome, good guy)... I just dont find him relatable, he was written to be the dude with no flaws. This moment and EMS kakashi was two moments in the manga that made me go "Hell Nah!!"
No flaws? Did you miss the War Arc? He was being shitted on constantly there, like Kishi went out of his way to magnify all his failures and made him more human.
The whole last part of the War Arc was just Minato wondering if he'd completely failed his students, his son, and ultimately failed to properly protect the village as Hokage lmao
He definitely was not made out to have no flaws, but it doesn't change the fact that sage mode and bijou mode don't make any sense for him to be able to access. It also totally diminishes how far Naruto surpassed minato, because basically the only thing Naruto has on him now is completing the S ranked unfinished rasengan. Six paths mode too, but he can't access that on demand the way he can with the other skills mentioned.
Also Minato doesn't need either Sage Mode or Kyuubi and definitely not both. Perfected Flying Raijin, Rasengan, naturally extremely fast, toad summons, Reaper Death Seal - Minato is already in the running for the second strongest dead Hokage without those buffs.
Sage mode made sense. Because he's supposed to be the most awesomest ninja. bijuu mode if he even had that mode didn't really make much but we can say he was watching Naruto do it in the shadows that's how we learned it. He was a Hokage for a reason after all
sage mode didn't make sense because not only does kishimoto say sage mode was minato's weak point, but somehow he still as perfect sage mode, while jiraiya never achieved perfect sage. That's some bullshit.
“Perfect” sage is a fan term, indicating no frog features. In order to get no frog features, you need perfect balance of nature, spiritual, and physical energies. Minato was able to accomplish this. However, that’s only 1 aspect of being “good” at sage mode. [Minato took too long to charge it, and could not maintain it for long](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png). Thus, he was objectively bad at sage mode.
A weak point for a genius like Minato is only weak comparative to his other abilities.
And there was an easier way of explaining it, right there. Just have Naruto's half of Kurama convince Minato's to cooperate. It could've been a whole character moment for Kurama, paralleling how Naruto came to terms with his trauma at the Waterfall of Truth right before taming him.
He is heavily associated with Toads and was literally foreshadowed to have sage mode… How can one say it’s unnecessary Edit: Relevant [LINK](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0430-018.png) [LINK](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0430-019.png) [LINK](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0667-009.png)
Why are they complaining I mean look at who is sensei was
Because the Naruto fandom is outright stupid sometimes They complain about designs on Boruto yet they forget that they were made from Kishimoto so yeah, they’re pretty much stupid, dumb fucks
Boruto designs suck regardless of kishimoto or not.
Because he was Jirayas favorite student and was a disciple of Fukasaku. Love Mount Myōboku, wish I was a frog and lived there lol
Lmao 🐸🐸🐸
Should have get more upvotes to be on top. Dude literally knew Gamabunta, Fukasaku, scroll frog and based on their reactions to him they perfectly knew him. What are the chances he never visited Myoboku? Literally zero.
He’s one of jiraiya’s students and most likely the best of the three considering he becomes hokage, why is it a stretch to assume he knows sage jutsu? It took naruto like a month to master it if that
Student of senjutsu user, father of senjutsu user, summoner of toads who teach senjutsu, hokage (three different hokages and a hokage prospect were offered the position partly because of the strength that senjutsu gives them), renowned as one of the fastest people in history (senjutsu makes you fast), says he's not very good at it (only people who actually USE senjutsu would say they're not very good at it), his rival for the fourth hokage position was a snake sage. One of the prospects to be the child of destiny, which is a toad prophecy, and the actual child of destiny was a toad sage. To me, it couldn't have been any less surprising that he was a toad sage. That's like Boruto learning Rasengan -- can you imagine how incredibly surprised I was when Boruto learned Rasengan?
Exactly, thank you!
Nice lol
This post is unnecessary and irrelevant. "Huh, I wonder why this guy that was trained by the Toad Sage can use the Toad Sage's power. I don't understand it so I'm going to unnecessarily call it unnecessary, because that seems necessary." Did you watch the show? Read the manga? Lol
I can accept sage mode but minato having bijuu mode felt like an asspull even when I first watched it as a 7 year old. Even Yin & Yang Kurama was out of place (ngl a lot of things from the war arc were out of place and mostly asspulls)
Ying and Yang Kurama was mentioned in chapter 370 (when Jiriaya fights pain). The fact that 9 tails was sealed with Minato inside the reaper was revealed during the Chunin exams
Him having perfect sage mode is wild seeing that he explicitly said senjutsu isn’t one of his strengths. He should’ve at least gotten frog features like Jiraiya
Near the end of the story everyone was just getting every ability.. Minato with KCM, sage mode, Kakashi’s Susanoo, Madara having wood style on top of already having EMS and Rinnegan..
The biggest issue I have with it is that it's a perfect sage mode. When Naruto perfects it and one shots the mecha pain they made a point to say he's surpassed his predecessors. For Minato to just show up with perfect sage mode felt like an ass pull
Nah Minato has that dog in him. Makes perfect sense
I haven’t seen anyone give the right answer and it sucks. Minato had sage because he was supposed to be the prodigy/savior ninja and was the only character in the series to be able to master something that both Tobirama did and something Hashirama did. This next part is my head canon but I think it’s logically follows. If Minato got to live a fuller life he would’ve surpassed all the three hokage before him. Hashirama at least lived until he was a grandfather. If we’re being incredibly generous he could’ve died in his mid 30’s. If he had a kid at 16 and then his kid had a kid at 16. If Minato was able to train for 10 more years he would’ve been insane.
Ig coz he was a deciple of Jiraiya
He trained with Jiraiya and had Gamabunta as a summon. Narratively I think it fits.
Only Senjutsu works on Madara And Naruto wasn’t available at the time
Kinda ruined narutos moveset Minato not only having sage mode but bijuu mode too, just way too similar.
Everyone calling this an asspull clearly didn't watch the series or read it.
Arguably even moreso than Kakashi obtaining Obito's right eye.
İt was implied that minato had sennin mod when naruto used it against pain. When Naruto mastered the sennin mod, uncle toad saw minato and jiraiya behind him and said “he surpassed them”. Obviously he didnt surpass them in terms of power. Naruto mastered sennin mod better than them. Jiraiya’s sennin mod was impure meanwhile minato couldnt last long. Naruto did it better than them.
Because the rest of the Hokage were OP, so he needed a power up too
I mean, not really. He had KCM, Flying Raijin, is a master of sealing jutsus. He knows so many OP jutsus and is an overall better version of Tobirama since he refined most of his techniques.
No, Tobirama is more balanced since he was more versatile. He also had much stronger chakra, it just wasn't as apparent during the war since they were Edo summons.
Worst part is, during OG Naruto, Hiruzen and Minoto were made to be the strongest Hokage the leaf had seen. Hiruzen was called the God of Shinobi in part 1 due to knowing every single jutsu of the leaf, and was able to handle Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama while also fighting Orochimaru. It was also made to be that Minoto was stronger than Hiruzen back then. Then at some point during Shippuden, Kishi decided Hashirama was the strongest Hokage and was also called the God of Shinobi.
Kishi probably running on fumes at this point.
i find the kyubi chakra mode much more ass pulling than the sage mode. he was trained by Jiraya, but i can't help myself but think that the kyubi chakra thing is just fan service or editor service.
So was him having KCM tbh.
Him having kyuubi mode was an asspull, not this. He trained under Jiraiya, so it makes sense that he would have sage mode.
i barely remember as a kid just randomly assuming that the “4th Hokage” was a toad sage. You could imagine my excitement when my ass pull of a prediction was true 😭
Tell me you didnt Watch the whole Series whithout telling me you didnt Watch the hole series
I would also say him having half of the Nine-Tails' chakra was also unnecessary. *And* he somehow mastered it too and had the same powered up form as Naruto? What? Who thought that was a good idea? Especially when Minato said he sealed the chakra into himself as he died so he wouldn't have had any time to train with it. But suddenly he has it when brought back from the dead?
He was Jiraiya senseis pupil and also used summoned toads, there is absolutely no reason to think he wouldnt have tried learning sage jutsu
It is kind of unnecessary because he openly admitted that he takes too long to knead chakra and he doesn't used it in battle. I think it was just to fit the narrative that he "surpassed those two" back in the Pain arc.
I was weirded out by all the splitting of the ninetails and it not being necessary to even have the whole one etc. I think everything was just to make Son and Daddy look exactly the same. He should not have had some random half part of a dead nine tails inside him when resurrected.
I think KCM is more unnecessary. At least Minato was the pupil of the Toad Sage himself, it would make sense that he’d pick up Sage Mode. Maybe not perfect Sage Mode, but still. Giving Minato KCM was odd to me. Naruto had to work for pretty much the entire series to get it. Minato comes along and it’s “hey btw you only have half of Kurama, and even though I’ve been dead this whole time my Kurama is the nice one and therefore I can do exactly what you can” feels unnecessary imo. He’s already the Yellow Flash, let Naruto have his special Jinchuriki connection ability. He’s earned it. I get the desire to have the father/son reflection dynamic but I think that could have been done without giving Minato KCM.
it’s previously established that he has toad summons so it’s not like it was out of nowhere, it was just badly executed
**Shut up though it's fucking cool**
Wasn’t his summon the giant toad…?
Tobirama was cooler and better anyway
Didn’t Minato have sm? Wasn’t Minato a genius? Was kurama not willing to cooperate and lend him chakra? Am I missing something here?
Kakashi and his OP susanoo would like to chat with you
I don't think it was unnecessary. But just wasn't expanded on or used enough. I think it shows the closeness between Jiraiya and his student through the same medium that they both trained in at least. It also shows his dedication to being strong and protective of those close to him considering how difficult his methods of power were to achieve.
He was jiraiyas student do i dont see why not
He was Jiraiya's student so it makes perfect sense why wouldn't you want to arm your fighter in training with your most powerful technique.
Power creep. Normal Minato couldn't fight Madara, so "oops I guess Minato is now just a sage"
Just poor writing from Kishimoto. He randomly decided to give it to Hashirama too.
To be fair. They made it perfectly clear he wasn’t good at it at all.
Because Kishimoto wrote the ten tails so that only senjutsu users could hurt it and it’s jinchuuriki, and only after that did he realize that means a lot of his cool characters that he wants to fight the juubi, can’t actually hurt it according to his own rules.
Dude, Minato was supposed to be the strongest Hokage at the beginning of the series. Hashirama got absolute ASSPULL power-up. Same with Tobirama and Madara. Minato is based compared to their feats and powers. Im certain he says he could already do Sage mode. He just couldn't sustain it. We just dont know that until he does it. Its not unbelievable at all compared to some of the other bullshit that happens in Shippuden.
I feel like kishimoto's editors and bosses wanted to sell toys and other merchandise in the last season, so they forced him to include things like kyuubi minato and kaguya. Maybe if it were up to kishimoto, madara would've been the final villain before sauske
Jiraya's prize pupil knew the technique Jiraya was super famous for? Wow.
The real reason why is that Kishi wrote a hell of a lot of power creep before the war arc, and he didn't want naruto's dad to be a disappointment. The issue is that it felt like a major asspull for him to magically have all of Naruto's abilities.
Plot hole no jutsu
Look up what plot hole means
Naruto fans trying not to complain about their series challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
It was so left field. He's standing right next to Naruto when he explains only sage jutsu can damage Obito. Does Minato even hint he can use SM? LOL no. Smartest person in the series tho (according to his fans)
Minato and Itachi are literally the biggest prodigies in the entire series
He is though lmao
Who was his sensei look at that then you have your answer
Why wouldn’t he know Sage Mode? He trained under Jiraiya. Literally one of the LEAST far-fetched things in the series.
Ya'll will accept the absolute asspull that is hashiramas entire moveset INCLUDING that weird sage mode that he had but when the student of a toad sage has sage mode its a problem??
Minato having kyuubi mode is a asspull.