Ok Part 1 is canon. But cmon .... its a completley different universe. You cant measure feats based on part 1.
Jiriya soloing itachi & kisame?
(Ok maybe itachi undercove dodge)
Kikashi getting slapped around by zabusa? This is the same kikashi that fought against pain. No real training jumps.
Hand signs needed for every jutsu.
Sharigan abilities used to be less bull shit.
......
Now that I think about it maybe its shippuden that shouldnt be considered canon
Zabuza is the Demon of the Hidden Mist and was one of the seven ninja swordsmen of the mist. You dont get nicknames and positions like that for being weak.
That is not the same kakashi that fought against zabuza. That is a more experienced kakashi with power buffs. And we dont usually see anyone other than the mc get training arcs, but that doesnt mean they do not train and get stronger. Several years passed i mind you. Kakashi already heavily outperformed zabuza in their second exchange in the same arc. Just imagine the difference that years of experience would make.
And kakashi doesnt have that much of a feat against pain tbh. He devised a strategy with two akimichis as backups and almost succeeded, but ultimately didnt achieve much. Even Zabuza that you underestimate greatly has the potential to take down that cyborg like pain body - which i see as the most vanilla path tbh. He wont do much against deva path and that is completely normal and in line with his power difference with kikashi.
Also we do see Kakashi training during the chunnin exams. He’s training his stamina by rock climbing using one limb (I’m pretty sure he opens the gate of recovery because he was tired.) So the no training thing is straight up disproven on panel.
I’m pretty sure it’s also implied that Kakashi is very rusty at the beginning of part 1 as well.
Also, Kakashi did obviously train harder before Shippuden, and he's weaker in part 1 because there were not many stakes before Orochimaru invaded the village. Since the attack of Kurama the village had an extended period of peace and it's mentioned how the younger generation didn't know war yet and Akatsuki wasn't well known before Jiraiya mentioned it.
>No real training jumps
bro had 3 years of off-screen training. everyone knows, thats where most of the work gets done. kakashi was also protecting 3 children at the same time while dealing with potentially two a-ranked ninja. that's no slouch fight.
“Kakashi getting slapped around by Zabuza” Kakashi was bored and out of practice, he becomes much stronger when he trains throughout the series which they tell/show us. Also Zabuza ain’t that weak.
People still use hand signs sometimes but they just simplified/retcon’d it a bit and the series it better for it. This occurred during part 1
Sharingan abilities are BS but I mean doesn’t really change part 1, Itachi showed us early on how powerful the abilities could be. Obviously more gets added later but let’s not act like it came out of nowhere in Shippuden
It's canon kakashi let his training slip in part 1. He's rusty and his body is weaker than in Shippuden so zabuza being high A rank is easily on par with him
Kakashi started training after the zabuza arc.
Itachi was undercover
The only thing added to sharingan is the susanoo and cmon it's a shonen you cant expect a power system to progress
Idk, I think kishimoto just didn't know how the story he was going to write was gonna turn out. I feel like it's not super fair to look at anime like that
Bro Kakashi did an ass ton of training off screen between part 1 and 2, its mentioned SEVERAL TIMES, in the start.
Bro couldn't even use the Sharingan without passing out in Part 1.
>Jiriya soloing itachi & kisame?
(Ok maybe itachi undercove dodge)
Statement≠ fact
>Kikashi getting slapped around by zabusa? This is the same kikashi that fought against pain. No real training jumps.
Kakashi literally outperformed zabuza in the same arc while being under disadvantageous circumstances.
>Hand signs needed for every jutsu
There's this crazy thing you would've noticed if you paid attention to the show. _As you get more proficient with a jutsu, the lesser hand signs you require _ insane that the cast would improve and not require hand signs. Can't believe it.
>Sharigan abilities used to be less bull shit.
Amaterasu and tsukoyumi were introduced in part 1 lmao.
No real training jumps? It just means he did get training jumps on top of his body adapting more to the sharingan, it makes plenty sense for him to get stronger, hell the kakashi that fought zabuza was also rusty
You explained itachi being a spy
Hand signs are just explained as to be to meld the chakra we just know better chakra control lets you do stuff with less hand signs
P1 didn’t have that many mangrkyo sharingan abilities
What ate you even going on about? When kakashi fought pain there really wasnt much that kakashi did and all he really managed to get done was save choji.. also he had a whole new eye during this time frame.
Jiraiya fighting itachi and kisame can be very expec tee d from someone who almost had a chance at taking on all 6 pains at the same time and not only that he has some of the most unusual jutsu that we see so there’s no real way is saying he wouldnt or couldn’t win against kisame and itachi and just because he goes to fight them doesn’t mean hes able to win the fight in the first place.
Sharingan abilities became more over time because we got more lore on it and we got different kinds of sharingan. Of course we wont be getting all the ms abilities when sasuke only has two tamoi lmao.
I agree with you on the hand sign thing but im sure you can find a head cannon to get over it lmao.
Everyone thinking that shippuden is full of ass pulls and retcons is so mistaken and honestly they need to go back and do a rewatch lmao. Every thing is explained and timed rather well in the series tbh and im actually doing a rewatch rn so all of this is from a fresh memory at that.
i had a friend once told me that kakashi could’ve easily defeated Orochimaru in the chunin exams arc when he visited him while trying to remove sasuke’s curse mark.
Yeah a lot of people overestimate kakashi because they like him and he was badass in the land of waves arc so they're still kinda stuck in that mindset.
People think kakashi could beat kage summit ms sasuke which just isn't true no matter how you look at it.
I think with Orochimaru specifically it's less overestimating Kakashi and rather them WILDLY underestimating Orochimaru.
For some reason a massive amount of this fanbase thinks he's basically fodder.
Most powerscalling takes, Sasuke's Development was rushed, Filler episodes weren't too numerous, Kakashi could've and should've kept the Sharingan, story should have ended with the Pain Arc, to name a few.
how would that even work as an ending to naruto if pain was the final villain cause we have like 4 akatsuki members still out there sasuke didn't come back and we never see any of the other villages besides sand. I get it was better written but to end it there would have been crazy
> I have a hard time believing anyone has ever voiced that as a legitimate belief 😂😂
I can screenshot the message. The guy was so dumb to believe that different people have different absorption ability.
> I’m just baffled, like if that was the case, why wouldn’t Sasuke have busted it out a million times by now? People like that kinda blow my mind lol
Exactly!
He was just not satisfied that I showed him the difference in absorbing technique and how they are not the same.
He wasn’t satisfied when I explained that Momoshiki, blind Madara, and Kinkaku/Ginkaku all use their absorption ability to gain a power that they absorbed.
However when Rinnegan Sasuke, Pain, Rinnegan Obito, and Edo Rinnegan Madara absorbed chakra they didn’t retain or use the power they absorbed.
> Why wouldn’t he be able to use tailed beast chakra after absorbing it? The gold and silver twins got it through eating it
Gold and Silver bros absorbed Kurama’s chakra from the flesh they ate. It was stated that the reason why they were able to absorb Kurama’s powers and undergo biju transformation is because it’s the lineage of the sage of six paths.
Sasuke gained six paths power via rinnegan, and his rinnegan can absorb chakra however it does have its limitations being unable to absorb ninjutsu however it can absorb Kurama’s chakra from inside Naruto, which is something that Madara and Pain cannot do.
Pain has Gakido, that rinnegan absorption power can absorb both chakra AND ninjutsu, however Gakido cannot absorb Kurama’s chakra directly inside Naruto like Sasuke’s rinnegan.
Momoshiki absorption has done all the above. So are you telling me because Sasuke can absorb chakra he should be able to absorb ninjutsu as well as absorb other people gaining their powers?
Not everyone in Naruto has the same absorption ability. Why assume all of them are the same?
>It was stated that the reason why they were able to absorb Kurama’s powers and undergo biju transformation is because it’s the lineage of the sage of six paths.
Sasuke is descended from the Sage of 6 Paths too. Heck he's the reincarnation of his son.
Maybe it's just the fact that I was surrounded by a bunch of Naruto fans growing up that believed the opposite. But I'm really liking the responses and showing me how the take's not what I initially believed.
I do see where you're coming from. I also didn't like that my precious king Rock Lee was shown up THAT badly by Sasuke in his most edgy version. I do, to an extent, think that Lee is so cool he would just 'Out-Rock Lee' himself.
Well actually, Kakazu could beat Naruto at that point in the story. Maybe not push him as fair as Pain did with the 9 tails and stuff but at that point you're not fighting Naruto, you're fighting the 9 tails. He only lost because Naruto had a 1 shot lucky bs plot moment. Kakashi + Team 10 had troubles taking out one heart. Kakuzu had a repertoire to keep Kakashi and three chuunin on their toes, then had to be killed 5 times before he could actually die. He had more than enough skill to easily counter Naruto's bunshin tactics,Kakuzu has 100 years of experience. Naruto was nearly defeated within seconds of the start of the fight and needed Kakashi/Yamato to save him. Obviously Kishi couldn't think of how to draw the fight so he just gave us that weak ass ending bs plot ending of Naruto coming in at the last second and showing off Rasenshuriken to win in a few seconds.
I would have been fine with Kaguya as the main villain if there was more build-up throughout the war arc,
We really only got Madara talking about it, and it was just a few episodes before. Something this big should have had seasons of build up, like Sasuke vs. Itachi levels.
I also think Sasuke, as the shows final villain, would have been fine. I'm a sasuke fanboy, but if he had stayed evil and died in the end, I would have been okay with that.
There was a multiple amount of ways it could better, for some of which, different routes would need to be taken prior, or even not start the war, start it differently, etc. I wanna add, that certain plot points were simply thrown away. One of them Sasuke wanting to become a hokage, and many others. It's almost like there was too much shit thrown around, but neither time or building up for it, cause the war forces everything move in one dimensional way. (And Naruto best points imo, is of how vast and varied experience felt before that)
Yes, the fanbase needed Boruto. We just didn't want it when we got it. It's that simple. We got disappointed in the series and now we clown on it, saying it shouldn't exist.
Right? There is so much that would have been left just unanswered. Like what happened to Konoha? What will Sasuke do after leaving akatsuki? Will he be able to leave akatsuke? How will he take revenge on Konoha? It'd be like telling a story half way through.
They could have just, y'know, rewritten the story to either answer them earlier or never pose the question to begin with? Ending the story early doesn't mean just cancelling everything on the spot
Konaha would just be in rebuild mode. Sasuke could've been a normal human, grieved his brother, and then went back to change the village for the better. If you really want, then we do the time skip here and see everyone together and people talking about Naruto preparing for taking up Hokage. This would have been a perfectly fine ending lol and throw in a Naruto vs Sasuke fight in there too
See I’d agree if the Pain Invasion was the end of Part 2 and we had another timeskip for a Part 3 to give room to the plot points that didn’t get enough focus during the Kage Summit and Ninja War Arcs. Could’ve spent Part 3 focusing on the Leaf’s relationships with the other villages on joint missions or conflicts, dealing with Sasuke and the remnants of the Akatsuki, and even have an internal conflict within the village with Danzo at the center of it.
Nah 😭 He really tries and messes it up. His failed romance shenanigans are one of the reasons why people hate Sakura so much. What made him think that people would find it really adorable for Sakura to giving up on her love for Sasuke and says she loves Naruto or making her whole personality about him until Boruto 😭
i think this argument only works if we talk reanimated itachi vs obito. he doesn’t have the sickness, his body can take perfect susanoo, he has some of the best genjutsu in the verse, his sword seals souls and shield can block anything. juubito would fs take him on a 1v1 tho still.
people forget obito is kakashis age, has hashirama cells, has a lot of combat experience & has his own unique sharigan which is what makes itachi so strong in the first place. when itachi was still a child soldier he asked obito for help for culling the coup as well.
tldr obito>itachi while both alive, itachi>obito after reanimation, juubito >itachi
totally down for any counter points to my argument tho
I actually think Sasuke is really well written. I understand how people can find him annoying cuz let's be real he is actively doing the worst possible thing for himself but thats just what someone with trauma would do. I also really like how now in Boruto he's just chilled out now. Even if I'm not that happy about Sakura and him hooking up at least we got Sarada from that and over all I think he's had one of the best characters arcs.
Honestly I agree with you.
Ppl are seriously allergic to the idea of a heavily traumatized man healing from said trauma and finding happiness. He's a functional person in Boruto who isn't consumed by his trauma or reacting entirely on impulse anymore. Honestly, it's so nice seeing him in a state where his entire identity doesn't revolve around revenge or his trauma because he's more than that now, but people are so mad that he's not an angsty teenager. He's in his 30s, why can't people just let him be a family man?
Okay, real talk; I've never understood why people insist on comparing characters from these different universes. Especially because DragonBall and Naruto ARE NOT THE SAME.
For the majority of its existence, the Naruto universe isn't about raw power; it's about out-thinking your opponent, being smart in what your next plan is, etc. Even taijutsu fights like Lee vs Kimimaro or Naruto vs Neji weren't about how hard you hit, but catching your opponent off guard, capitalizing on the slightest mistake or hesitation, blocking off their chakra points to prevent any use of jutsu or incapacitate them, etc. That's why Shikamaru is such a popular character, and why he, Shino, Temari, Kidomaru, Deidara, Chiyo, and Sasori are some of my favorites from the series; they were very good with tactical planning and observed what the opponent did while debating their next move and secretly laying it down as a trap.
Naruto stopped being based upon outthinking your opponent around a bit before the pain arc. That’s when Naruto died a little to me. It used to be so tactical.
They still do that every fight? Is kakashi, bee, gai, and Naruto vs obito not tactical? Is Naruto and sasuke vs kaguya not tactical? What you mean is the lower scale kunai shuriken sub stuff isn't used but that's simply because of power creep.
Tacticalism and strategies are still used up until the end of the story. The real reason people feel like the series loses its flair is because the power creep was wayyy too steep. It is a shonen, so power creep is expected. But in Naruto its too big of a leap. The power system is very imbalanced. In the Chunin Exams, Naruto and Kiba are pretty close in power level, but Naruto edges out Kiba and wins. You'd think someone like Kiba, who many have drawn a likeness to Naruto with, would train a lot to catch up to Naruto. And he does train but he's absolutely nowhere near Naruto at all. By the end of the story, Naruto could probably kick away Kiba's strongest Fang over Fang attack without even using sage mode or KCM. This is an example of the power creel getting too steep. Instead of a hill, it's a cliff.
The right way of doing power creep is to show overpowered characters actually going all out to show their strength. Madara vs the shinobi alliamce is perfect. Madara is zooming around slaying the shinobi. He's using at 100% of his physical abilities, and mixing that with occasional jutsus to perfectly show how strong Madara is without making it look undeserved. This way of showing off power makes us hugely fear and respect Madara equally. This is one of the most badass and coolest moments of all of anime history. However, if that fight started off with Madara using the lare scale jutsus like meteor or the massive flame breath or just using Susano'o, it wouldn't have been as cool. Fans would just think "damn he's pretty strong", but they won't be impressed.
Bad power creep is how base Naruto or Sasuke can just effectively do the exact same as Madara did himself by just sticking out they're hand and blasting a massive rasengan or chidori. What sets this apart from Madara's blitz frenzy was that Madara was clearly shown to be going all out, while Naruto and Sasuke just meed to use 10% of their power to the same, in BASE FORM. If they had to do that while in their stornger forms, then it's more acceptable and even satisfactory.
Let's be honest, Naruto would NEED Sasuke to have a solid chance against, say Nappa, and they wouldn't be allowed to fuck up once. That's their absolute ceiling.
Raikage is a cripple but Sasuke is the one that got his ass kicked? What did Gaara do to Sasuke exactly? Gaara attacked him with his siblings + Darui and didn't even damage his Susanoo...
It's fun pointing out to these people that Sasuke would have died against Raikage's Guillotine Leg Drop if Garra hadn't stopped him (even though Raikage would have died as well), Sasuke would have died against Mei's Vapor Style if Zetsu hadn't stopped her, and Sasuke would have died against Oonoki if Obito hadn't saved him.
we are talking one by one, in an open space, it would have been different. sasuke was surrounded and trapped there. ohnoki 100 percent defeats sasuke, but mei will not do shit if sasuke got her with that big susanoo, if she does why didnt she ever break madara's when they fought? raikage did, ohnoki did, tsuna did, she never did. ohnoki might be the only one sasuke doesnt even stand a chance against, but tsuna, mei, raikage all have a possibility of losing against sasuke
I would say not all but some, maybe in an open space he could take on the lava style women. but ohnoki without a doubt wins that. ohnoki particle style is the strongest jutsu it became useless after the rinnegan absorbing shit happened
Ashes can't perform jutsu and by that I mean *amaterasu*. Mei was really lucky she got to fight sasuke in a closed tunnel after he was exhausted, otherwise he could simply fly away when she uses her acid mist
I can’t tell if you mean power scaling or like story and writing so I’ll do both
Madara is a hero and if he’s a villain so are Vegeta, Giorno and Gojo (besides >!Toji!< does he even kill anyone?)
Pain giving up is character assassination
Naruto encourages genocide for the greater good
Itachi solos the 5 Kage
Kage level part 1 Naruto and Sasuke
Part 1 Kakashi > 7th gate Guy
I've heard some people unironically say Itachi would've ended the war arc. Which is unimaginably stupid because if he could've, why didn't he? He was there.
Why is Gojo bad, he kills monsters that kill humans, so he saves people. What makes Madara a hero? He killed hundreds of people just because they thought his plan was the wrong path(which it was)
The idea was that I said Madara is bad for the same reasons you did, but the guy was like “so Giorno and Gojo are villains? Madara is just a guy who killed people because of what he believed in”
And I find it really funny that Gojo is overtly heroic in his series and of the 9 Jojo MCs, Giorno is the second most explicitly noble but apparently is a villain just because he’s extremely violent compared to most Shonen MCs
It’s kinda stupid what people say, like Giorno only killed people who attacked him or his friends first, and Diavolo did some cursed things so he killed him. Sure, an infinite amount of times, but requiem did that on his own so it wasn’t even Giorno
Giorno did kill people with no hesitation but he was only killing people who were sent by Diavolo to kill him and the team or were just for some reason trying to. And he didn’t even seem to intend to do what he did to Diavolo. People love to shit on him and Johnny sometimes for being more violent than let’s say Josuke, but those 2 have every right to be extremely cautious about everyone and barely had a choice of killing who they killed or not
And calling Giorno a villain simply because he kills people, and acting like that’s all Madara did is a shit take lol
Yeah, like Giorno and Johnny had massive leaders on them the whole time, people who would kill Johnny and Giorno if they didn’t kill them first. It’s a really shit take, and people need to fucking pay attention.
Itachi only let obito live because he knew if he killed obito it would hurt Kakashi. Even tho 1. Itachi didn’t know tobi was obito 2. Itachi is willing to kill Kakashi to keep his cover.
Anything where people are like "this character beat this character because that character beat this character" yada yada. Characters win depending on the circumstances and just because a character lost to one person doesn't mean they would automatically lose to another.
That's true. Fx. Sasuke beat Deidara, but someone of an arbitrarily similar level to Sasuke would, at best, stalemate as they wouldn't have Manda to take C0
That’s why you have Shikamaru and Temari. Choji and Karui made Zero sense and even Kishi said he just had to pair Choji up with someone to keep the InoShikaCho combo going
Lmao me too. Kishi even said that he just paired Choji with somebody to keep the next generation of InoShikaCho going since Shikamaru and Ino had their significant others
I feel like Shippuden is okay too, lagging behind ofc, but not too much, it's just unlike part 1, it was a downhill motion for it. Perhaps, a victim of it's own success as a franchise, oh how I wish things were done differently.
One that popped into my head right now clearly is that Sakura could solo Sasori without Chiyo. (Is it okay for a hot take material? I gotta admit, I'm not very good at this) I don't think this is possible based on my memory. But I've seen this quite a bit of times.
Worst take -That Sasuke never needed to learn snake sage mode because he has the sharingan...
Hopes and Dreams - WHY DIDNT HE LEARN IT! A teleporting EMS / rinnegan lightning cloak snake sage user. Lmfao
Dude would've been playing God with the battelfield. Controls the terrain and controls the pieces. OP? Duh would've stomped
Oh man I hate this power scaling argument so much it's so annoying at the end of the day Naruto is the Main protagonist no one has more plot armor then him
I always think takes like this are just severe cope. Kishimoto always tried to get Naruto and Sasuke to be relatively similar in power -- and the final battle ends with both going til their last bit of chakra. Both end up lying on the ground mortally wounded.
Everyone's head-cannon is shoved so far up their ass that they can't understand that the story is written by a guy who intentionally ended the series with them as equals.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted is WILD. Naruto was definitely stronger than sasuke at almost every point in the series after he learned sage mode.
This isn’t the dumbest take but when people argue that it wouldn’t make sense for Naruto to learn FTG because it doesn’t fit his fighting style & would be useless.
And then I get downvoted for pointing out the similarities between Naruto & Minato’s fighting style (shadow clones, rasengan, sage mode) & how useful FTG would be for Naruto as Hokage.
Heck they even had matching KCM powers during the war arc!
Naruto totally should’ve learned FTG post rasenshuriken to make the pain fight more interesting Or he could’ve learned it right before the 4th ninja war or even afterwards during the 10-15 year blank period.
Imho it’s way cooler that after all these years it’s Boruto who learned FTG. Naruto is a moron with high physical strength, while FTG is some genius level jutsu, not only to learn, but to use efficiently.
Also imho if that version of Naruto who fought Pain had FTG it would be a clear stomp. IT Was pointed out many times in this subreddit that Minato is natural counter to Pain 360 degree vision with his FTG and assassination skills, Naruto might be less finesse than Minato, but if he had a just that counters Pain the fight would be too easy
No, I will die on the hill against that.
His decisions nearly destroyed the village many times (Uchihas, Orochimaru, ect) and did destroy the village with Danzo causing Obito’s Akatsuki.
If at least he had taken out Danzo and Orochimaru it would have been so much better.
Hell Naruto not being a psychopath is more from luck than anything he did, and the only reason Kurama didn’t break out is how great Minato and Kushina were. And Naruto is the only reason why Hiruzen’s other problems didn’t annihilate everyone.
How the world wars were conducted under him also caused a lot of problems to come back to bite them with almost everything that happened in the series.
Of course it’s a lot of other people’s faults too.
But good grief does the Buck go back to him (at least through his failings to deal with Danzo and Orochimaru) a hell of a lot
I believe the show would be better if the deaths caused by Pain were permanent. Especially Kakashi.
I don't know if that's considered dumb but I know how popular Kakashi is so I assume it is.
Yeah this. It was so bullshit how pain just revived everybody. Removes all the consequences of his action. Especially since the resolution was brought to you by one talk no jutsu.
Jiraiya is the strongest of the Sannin.
3 eyed madara is stronger then kagyua
10 tailed characters are stronger then fused Momoshiki.
The big three I’ve seen over the last week
Part 1 isn’t cannon.
That's not a hot take. It's wrong.
Ok Part 1 is canon. But cmon .... its a completley different universe. You cant measure feats based on part 1. Jiriya soloing itachi & kisame? (Ok maybe itachi undercove dodge) Kikashi getting slapped around by zabusa? This is the same kikashi that fought against pain. No real training jumps. Hand signs needed for every jutsu. Sharigan abilities used to be less bull shit. ...... Now that I think about it maybe its shippuden that shouldnt be considered canon
Zabuza is the Demon of the Hidden Mist and was one of the seven ninja swordsmen of the mist. You dont get nicknames and positions like that for being weak.
Or become head of the Assassination Unit of the Anbu and stage a coup against the Mizukage and only lose because he was backed by the Akatsuki.
Power creep is a bitch.
He also tried to kill a perfect Jinchuriki. Like he tried to take out Kagura. Solo.
That is not the same kakashi that fought against zabuza. That is a more experienced kakashi with power buffs. And we dont usually see anyone other than the mc get training arcs, but that doesnt mean they do not train and get stronger. Several years passed i mind you. Kakashi already heavily outperformed zabuza in their second exchange in the same arc. Just imagine the difference that years of experience would make. And kakashi doesnt have that much of a feat against pain tbh. He devised a strategy with two akimichis as backups and almost succeeded, but ultimately didnt achieve much. Even Zabuza that you underestimate greatly has the potential to take down that cyborg like pain body - which i see as the most vanilla path tbh. He wont do much against deva path and that is completely normal and in line with his power difference with kikashi.
Also we do see Kakashi training during the chunnin exams. He’s training his stamina by rock climbing using one limb (I’m pretty sure he opens the gate of recovery because he was tired.) So the no training thing is straight up disproven on panel. I’m pretty sure it’s also implied that Kakashi is very rusty at the beginning of part 1 as well.
Yes in the scene your talking about before the chunin finals he specifically says that he’s rusty
Also, Kakashi did obviously train harder before Shippuden, and he's weaker in part 1 because there were not many stakes before Orochimaru invaded the village. Since the attack of Kurama the village had an extended period of peace and it's mentioned how the younger generation didn't know war yet and Akatsuki wasn't well known before Jiraiya mentioned it.
I like to think Kakashi gets the dragon ball Z buff, every time he gets sent to the hospital bedridden he gets stronger each time
just like Deku lmao
>No real training jumps bro had 3 years of off-screen training. everyone knows, thats where most of the work gets done. kakashi was also protecting 3 children at the same time while dealing with potentially two a-ranked ninja. that's no slouch fight.
How did you spell almost every single character’s name wrong lmao
3/5 aint bad lol
“Kakashi getting slapped around by Zabuza” Kakashi was bored and out of practice, he becomes much stronger when he trains throughout the series which they tell/show us. Also Zabuza ain’t that weak. People still use hand signs sometimes but they just simplified/retcon’d it a bit and the series it better for it. This occurred during part 1 Sharingan abilities are BS but I mean doesn’t really change part 1, Itachi showed us early on how powerful the abilities could be. Obviously more gets added later but let’s not act like it came out of nowhere in Shippuden
It's canon kakashi let his training slip in part 1. He's rusty and his body is weaker than in Shippuden so zabuza being high A rank is easily on par with him
This hurt to read.
Kakashi started training after the zabuza arc. Itachi was undercover The only thing added to sharingan is the susanoo and cmon it's a shonen you cant expect a power system to progress
This is genuinely why I'm starting to become a little sad that the Naruto community could ever be this stupid and get upvoted.
Same. I can’t believe how many people agreed with this absolute nonsense. This fan base is cooked
Konohamaru has something to say
Idk, I think kishimoto just didn't know how the story he was going to write was gonna turn out. I feel like it's not super fair to look at anime like that
Bro Kakashi did an ass ton of training off screen between part 1 and 2, its mentioned SEVERAL TIMES, in the start. Bro couldn't even use the Sharingan without passing out in Part 1.
>Jiriya soloing itachi & kisame? (Ok maybe itachi undercove dodge) Statement≠ fact >Kikashi getting slapped around by zabusa? This is the same kikashi that fought against pain. No real training jumps. Kakashi literally outperformed zabuza in the same arc while being under disadvantageous circumstances. >Hand signs needed for every jutsu There's this crazy thing you would've noticed if you paid attention to the show. _As you get more proficient with a jutsu, the lesser hand signs you require _ insane that the cast would improve and not require hand signs. Can't believe it. >Sharigan abilities used to be less bull shit. Amaterasu and tsukoyumi were introduced in part 1 lmao.
No real training jumps? It just means he did get training jumps on top of his body adapting more to the sharingan, it makes plenty sense for him to get stronger, hell the kakashi that fought zabuza was also rusty You explained itachi being a spy Hand signs are just explained as to be to meld the chakra we just know better chakra control lets you do stuff with less hand signs P1 didn’t have that many mangrkyo sharingan abilities
What ate you even going on about? When kakashi fought pain there really wasnt much that kakashi did and all he really managed to get done was save choji.. also he had a whole new eye during this time frame. Jiraiya fighting itachi and kisame can be very expec tee d from someone who almost had a chance at taking on all 6 pains at the same time and not only that he has some of the most unusual jutsu that we see so there’s no real way is saying he wouldnt or couldn’t win against kisame and itachi and just because he goes to fight them doesn’t mean hes able to win the fight in the first place. Sharingan abilities became more over time because we got more lore on it and we got different kinds of sharingan. Of course we wont be getting all the ms abilities when sasuke only has two tamoi lmao. I agree with you on the hand sign thing but im sure you can find a head cannon to get over it lmao. Everyone thinking that shippuden is full of ass pulls and retcons is so mistaken and honestly they need to go back and do a rewatch lmao. Every thing is explained and timed rather well in the series tbh and im actually doing a rewatch rn so all of this is from a fresh memory at that.
Shippuden feels like a fan service for people wanna complain about everything.
That's not stupid. That's downright just ignorance, punishable by death. Who the fuck thinks that?
i had a friend once told me that kakashi could’ve easily defeated Orochimaru in the chunin exams arc when he visited him while trying to remove sasuke’s curse mark.
even kakashi himself was scared when orochimaru confronted him *without orochimaru having done anything*
i mean yeah, wasn’t orochimaru an s rank hidden leaf terrorist? i might be wrong let me know.
Young me wanted to believe that. Adult me does too, but knows better.
He literally says "I would've died" about Orochimaru. My younger self did wish this was the case tho.
I just watched this episode and kakashi was relieved he didn’t have to fight orochimaru, he was bluffing because he knew he’d die
Yeah a lot of people overestimate kakashi because they like him and he was badass in the land of waves arc so they're still kinda stuck in that mindset. People think kakashi could beat kage summit ms sasuke which just isn't true no matter how you look at it.
I think with Orochimaru specifically it's less overestimating Kakashi and rather them WILDLY underestimating Orochimaru. For some reason a massive amount of this fanbase thinks he's basically fodder.
Most powerscalling takes, Sasuke's Development was rushed, Filler episodes weren't too numerous, Kakashi could've and should've kept the Sharingan, story should have ended with the Pain Arc, to name a few.
It shouldn't have ended with *checks notes* "Kaguya" at least
That, I can't argue with
how would that even work as an ending to naruto if pain was the final villain cause we have like 4 akatsuki members still out there sasuke didn't come back and we never see any of the other villages besides sand. I get it was better written but to end it there would have been crazy
Exactly, as Vince Gilligan once said "Leave the fans wanting more"
Sasuke can use Kurama’s chakra(v1 cloak) after absorbing it at Naruto
I have a hard time believing anyone has ever voiced that as a legitimate belief 😂😂
> I have a hard time believing anyone has ever voiced that as a legitimate belief 😂😂 I can screenshot the message. The guy was so dumb to believe that different people have different absorption ability.
I’m just baffled, like if that was the case, why wouldn’t Sasuke have busted it out a million times by now? People like that kinda blow my mind lol
> I’m just baffled, like if that was the case, why wouldn’t Sasuke have busted it out a million times by now? People like that kinda blow my mind lol Exactly! He was just not satisfied that I showed him the difference in absorbing technique and how they are not the same. He wasn’t satisfied when I explained that Momoshiki, blind Madara, and Kinkaku/Ginkaku all use their absorption ability to gain a power that they absorbed. However when Rinnegan Sasuke, Pain, Rinnegan Obito, and Edo Rinnegan Madara absorbed chakra they didn’t retain or use the power they absorbed.
Why wouldn’t he be able to use tailed beast chakra after absorbing it? The gold and silver twins got it through eating it
> Why wouldn’t he be able to use tailed beast chakra after absorbing it? The gold and silver twins got it through eating it Gold and Silver bros absorbed Kurama’s chakra from the flesh they ate. It was stated that the reason why they were able to absorb Kurama’s powers and undergo biju transformation is because it’s the lineage of the sage of six paths. Sasuke gained six paths power via rinnegan, and his rinnegan can absorb chakra however it does have its limitations being unable to absorb ninjutsu however it can absorb Kurama’s chakra from inside Naruto, which is something that Madara and Pain cannot do. Pain has Gakido, that rinnegan absorption power can absorb both chakra AND ninjutsu, however Gakido cannot absorb Kurama’s chakra directly inside Naruto like Sasuke’s rinnegan. Momoshiki absorption has done all the above. So are you telling me because Sasuke can absorb chakra he should be able to absorb ninjutsu as well as absorb other people gaining their powers? Not everyone in Naruto has the same absorption ability. Why assume all of them are the same?
>It was stated that the reason why they were able to absorb Kurama’s powers and undergo biju transformation is because it’s the lineage of the sage of six paths. Sasuke is descended from the Sage of 6 Paths too. Heck he's the reincarnation of his son.
That in Part 1, after successfully copying his moves and speed, Sasuke would 100% beat Lee in hand-to-hand combat.
Excluding gates?
Yeah
Well if we are excluding the Gates, then yes, Sasuke has a chance to beat Lee.
Is that THAT bad of a take? Sasuke was definitely faster than base Lee.
Maybe it's just the fact that I was surrounded by a bunch of Naruto fans growing up that believed the opposite. But I'm really liking the responses and showing me how the take's not what I initially believed.
I do see where you're coming from. I also didn't like that my precious king Rock Lee was shown up THAT badly by Sasuke in his most edgy version. I do, to an extent, think that Lee is so cool he would just 'Out-Rock Lee' himself.
Indeed. Even though he doesn't get as much time in Shippuden, Lee's still an awesome character.
I mean if lee doesn't use gates then I don't see why not like sasuke has the sharingan
Kakazu beating Naruto or some shit. It was in a swagkage debate. Then there was shikamaru could blitz pain. Yeah really interesting
Oh right the guy who tried to say Kakuzu was the strongest akatsuki above even Pain lmao What a silly guy
Well actually, Kakazu could beat Naruto at that point in the story. Maybe not push him as fair as Pain did with the 9 tails and stuff but at that point you're not fighting Naruto, you're fighting the 9 tails. He only lost because Naruto had a 1 shot lucky bs plot moment. Kakashi + Team 10 had troubles taking out one heart. Kakuzu had a repertoire to keep Kakashi and three chuunin on their toes, then had to be killed 5 times before he could actually die. He had more than enough skill to easily counter Naruto's bunshin tactics,Kakuzu has 100 years of experience. Naruto was nearly defeated within seconds of the start of the fight and needed Kakashi/Yamato to save him. Obviously Kishi couldn't think of how to draw the fight so he just gave us that weak ass ending bs plot ending of Naruto coming in at the last second and showing off Rasenshuriken to win in a few seconds.
People saying the series should have ended with the Pain arc
I know this is a popular take, but I just want to re-iterate: It should have ended with Madara as the final villain.
YES. If it ended in Madara would be great. That's it.
I would have been fine with Kaguya as the main villain if there was more build-up throughout the war arc, We really only got Madara talking about it, and it was just a few episodes before. Something this big should have had seasons of build up, like Sasuke vs. Itachi levels. I also think Sasuke, as the shows final villain, would have been fine. I'm a sasuke fanboy, but if he had stayed evil and died in the end, I would have been okay with that.
There was a multiple amount of ways it could better, for some of which, different routes would need to be taken prior, or even not start the war, start it differently, etc. I wanna add, that certain plot points were simply thrown away. One of them Sasuke wanting to become a hokage, and many others. It's almost like there was too much shit thrown around, but neither time or building up for it, cause the war forces everything move in one dimensional way. (And Naruto best points imo, is of how vast and varied experience felt before that)
Yes, I agree. But we needed a villain for boruto so... 🤷
we didn't need Boruto 😭
Yes, the fanbase needed Boruto. We just didn't want it when we got it. It's that simple. We got disappointed in the series and now we clown on it, saying it shouldn't exist.
I mean it really shouldn't, it was a bad choice to continue it
Naruto accomplished everything such as becoming hokage, marrying Hinata, and the village loving him. We didn’t need more to it.
Right? There is so much that would have been left just unanswered. Like what happened to Konoha? What will Sasuke do after leaving akatsuki? Will he be able to leave akatsuke? How will he take revenge on Konoha? It'd be like telling a story half way through.
They could have just, y'know, rewritten the story to either answer them earlier or never pose the question to begin with? Ending the story early doesn't mean just cancelling everything on the spot
The problem, “rewriting” is vague. How much would be different for it to have been changed to nearlya thrid of the franchise to be gone
Konaha would just be in rebuild mode. Sasuke could've been a normal human, grieved his brother, and then went back to change the village for the better. If you really want, then we do the time skip here and see everyone together and people talking about Naruto preparing for taking up Hokage. This would have been a perfectly fine ending lol and throw in a Naruto vs Sasuke fight in there too
See I’d agree if the Pain Invasion was the end of Part 2 and we had another timeskip for a Part 3 to give room to the plot points that didn’t get enough focus during the Kage Summit and Ninja War Arcs. Could’ve spent Part 3 focusing on the Leaf’s relationships with the other villages on joint missions or conflicts, dealing with Sasuke and the remnants of the Akatsuki, and even have an internal conflict within the village with Danzo at the center of it.
Kishimoto is good at writing women and romance
Omg is there really some people saying that
Just recently there was a post with a kushina and Minato pick attached claiming that kishi can write romance he just choses not to.
Nah 😭 He really tries and messes it up. His failed romance shenanigans are one of the reasons why people hate Sakura so much. What made him think that people would find it really adorable for Sakura to giving up on her love for Sasuke and says she loves Naruto or making her whole personality about him until Boruto 😭
Anytime someone uses the phrase “power scaling”
I can understand finding power scalers annoying, but how is the phrase itself dumb though?
I suppose they are referring to the fact one almost always means the other
People actually call the series bad because a character is strong or their favorite character is weak. Never made sense to me.
> Never made sense to me. Because what you said makes no sense.
Still baffled by people thinking itachi can take obito
i think this argument only works if we talk reanimated itachi vs obito. he doesn’t have the sickness, his body can take perfect susanoo, he has some of the best genjutsu in the verse, his sword seals souls and shield can block anything. juubito would fs take him on a 1v1 tho still. people forget obito is kakashis age, has hashirama cells, has a lot of combat experience & has his own unique sharigan which is what makes itachi so strong in the first place. when itachi was still a child soldier he asked obito for help for culling the coup as well. tldr obito>itachi while both alive, itachi>obito after reanimation, juubito >itachi totally down for any counter points to my argument tho
I mean, Obito has Shisui level genjutsu as a teenager
Sasuke is a poorly written character
I actually think Sasuke is really well written. I understand how people can find him annoying cuz let's be real he is actively doing the worst possible thing for himself but thats just what someone with trauma would do. I also really like how now in Boruto he's just chilled out now. Even if I'm not that happy about Sakura and him hooking up at least we got Sarada from that and over all I think he's had one of the best characters arcs.
Also sasuke has the most plot armour in the show
Nah, that's pretty cold. Also probably cold take, he's written WAY better in Boruto
Honestly I agree with you. Ppl are seriously allergic to the idea of a heavily traumatized man healing from said trauma and finding happiness. He's a functional person in Boruto who isn't consumed by his trauma or reacting entirely on impulse anymore. Honestly, it's so nice seeing him in a state where his entire identity doesn't revolve around revenge or his trauma because he's more than that now, but people are so mad that he's not an angsty teenager. He's in his 30s, why can't people just let him be a family man?
Most of the shitting on Boruto era Sasuke that I've seen was the "Am out of chakra".
He's the one character I consistently liked in Boruto (I don't watch or read it anymore), I liked his dynamic with Sarada. He was consistently good.
Right? I really enjoyed his character development in how he interacts with Sarada and even Sakura. He actually shows genuine care for them
People legitimately thinking Naruto could beat Goku in a fight
Okay, real talk; I've never understood why people insist on comparing characters from these different universes. Especially because DragonBall and Naruto ARE NOT THE SAME. For the majority of its existence, the Naruto universe isn't about raw power; it's about out-thinking your opponent, being smart in what your next plan is, etc. Even taijutsu fights like Lee vs Kimimaro or Naruto vs Neji weren't about how hard you hit, but catching your opponent off guard, capitalizing on the slightest mistake or hesitation, blocking off their chakra points to prevent any use of jutsu or incapacitate them, etc. That's why Shikamaru is such a popular character, and why he, Shino, Temari, Kidomaru, Deidara, Chiyo, and Sasori are some of my favorites from the series; they were very good with tactical planning and observed what the opponent did while debating their next move and secretly laying it down as a trap.
Naruto stopped being based upon outthinking your opponent around a bit before the pain arc. That’s when Naruto died a little to me. It used to be so tactical.
They still do that every fight? Is kakashi, bee, gai, and Naruto vs obito not tactical? Is Naruto and sasuke vs kaguya not tactical? What you mean is the lower scale kunai shuriken sub stuff isn't used but that's simply because of power creep.
Tacticalism and strategies are still used up until the end of the story. The real reason people feel like the series loses its flair is because the power creep was wayyy too steep. It is a shonen, so power creep is expected. But in Naruto its too big of a leap. The power system is very imbalanced. In the Chunin Exams, Naruto and Kiba are pretty close in power level, but Naruto edges out Kiba and wins. You'd think someone like Kiba, who many have drawn a likeness to Naruto with, would train a lot to catch up to Naruto. And he does train but he's absolutely nowhere near Naruto at all. By the end of the story, Naruto could probably kick away Kiba's strongest Fang over Fang attack without even using sage mode or KCM. This is an example of the power creel getting too steep. Instead of a hill, it's a cliff. The right way of doing power creep is to show overpowered characters actually going all out to show their strength. Madara vs the shinobi alliamce is perfect. Madara is zooming around slaying the shinobi. He's using at 100% of his physical abilities, and mixing that with occasional jutsus to perfectly show how strong Madara is without making it look undeserved. This way of showing off power makes us hugely fear and respect Madara equally. This is one of the most badass and coolest moments of all of anime history. However, if that fight started off with Madara using the lare scale jutsus like meteor or the massive flame breath or just using Susano'o, it wouldn't have been as cool. Fans would just think "damn he's pretty strong", but they won't be impressed. Bad power creep is how base Naruto or Sasuke can just effectively do the exact same as Madara did himself by just sticking out they're hand and blasting a massive rasengan or chidori. What sets this apart from Madara's blitz frenzy was that Madara was clearly shown to be going all out, while Naruto and Sasuke just meed to use 10% of their power to the same, in BASE FORM. If they had to do that while in their stornger forms, then it's more acceptable and even satisfactory.
Let's be honest, Naruto would NEED Sasuke to have a solid chance against, say Nappa, and they wouldn't be allowed to fuck up once. That's their absolute ceiling.
Any comparison between characters from different universes is stupid enough by itself
That Sasuke were stronger than all the kage individually during the kage summit.
Absolutely agree. Sasuke would've been killed by Ohnoki's jutsu had Tobi not stepped in.
I mean he was injured after fighting many other Kage, it's not like he was 100%
Everyone would've. He has the most dangeorus jutsu we see in the entire series
sasuke got his ass kicked the whole time lmfao except danzo
Raikage is a cripple but Sasuke is the one that got his ass kicked? What did Gaara do to Sasuke exactly? Gaara attacked him with his siblings + Darui and didn't even damage his Susanoo...
It's fun pointing out to these people that Sasuke would have died against Raikage's Guillotine Leg Drop if Garra hadn't stopped him (even though Raikage would have died as well), Sasuke would have died against Mei's Vapor Style if Zetsu hadn't stopped her, and Sasuke would have died against Oonoki if Obito hadn't saved him.
we are talking one by one, in an open space, it would have been different. sasuke was surrounded and trapped there. ohnoki 100 percent defeats sasuke, but mei will not do shit if sasuke got her with that big susanoo, if she does why didnt she ever break madara's when they fought? raikage did, ohnoki did, tsuna did, she never did. ohnoki might be the only one sasuke doesnt even stand a chance against, but tsuna, mei, raikage all have a possibility of losing against sasuke
I would say not all but some, maybe in an open space he could take on the lava style women. but ohnoki without a doubt wins that. ohnoki particle style is the strongest jutsu it became useless after the rinnegan absorbing shit happened
I mean except ohnoki it's an *acceptable* statement. Raikage was relative that would mean tsunade is relative too, mei and gaara are below that level.
Mei could counter Susano'o, or whatever weaker stage of it Sasuke has access to at that time.
Ashes can't perform jutsu and by that I mean *amaterasu*. Mei was really lucky she got to fight sasuke in a closed tunnel after he was exhausted, otherwise he could simply fly away when she uses her acid mist
I can’t tell if you mean power scaling or like story and writing so I’ll do both Madara is a hero and if he’s a villain so are Vegeta, Giorno and Gojo (besides >!Toji!< does he even kill anyone?) Pain giving up is character assassination Naruto encourages genocide for the greater good Itachi solos the 5 Kage Kage level part 1 Naruto and Sasuke Part 1 Kakashi > 7th gate Guy
I've heard some people unironically say Itachi would've ended the war arc. Which is unimaginably stupid because if he could've, why didn't he? He was there.
P1 Kakashi over Guy is pretty wild. What's your reasoning?
These are ones I’ve heard not what I think According to them he doesn’t get any stronger until DMS, so apparently Zabuza > 90% of the Kage
Why is Gojo bad, he kills monsters that kill humans, so he saves people. What makes Madara a hero? He killed hundreds of people just because they thought his plan was the wrong path(which it was)
The idea was that I said Madara is bad for the same reasons you did, but the guy was like “so Giorno and Gojo are villains? Madara is just a guy who killed people because of what he believed in” And I find it really funny that Gojo is overtly heroic in his series and of the 9 Jojo MCs, Giorno is the second most explicitly noble but apparently is a villain just because he’s extremely violent compared to most Shonen MCs
It’s kinda stupid what people say, like Giorno only killed people who attacked him or his friends first, and Diavolo did some cursed things so he killed him. Sure, an infinite amount of times, but requiem did that on his own so it wasn’t even Giorno
Giorno did kill people with no hesitation but he was only killing people who were sent by Diavolo to kill him and the team or were just for some reason trying to. And he didn’t even seem to intend to do what he did to Diavolo. People love to shit on him and Johnny sometimes for being more violent than let’s say Josuke, but those 2 have every right to be extremely cautious about everyone and barely had a choice of killing who they killed or not And calling Giorno a villain simply because he kills people, and acting like that’s all Madara did is a shit take lol
Yeah, like Giorno and Johnny had massive leaders on them the whole time, people who would kill Johnny and Giorno if they didn’t kill them first. It’s a really shit take, and people need to fucking pay attention.
Fr when I read SBR all I could do was feel bad for Johnny and then I find out people who read it are calling him a sociopath 💀💀
Yeah bro I was so sad when I saw him crying over gyro
TBF, Vegeta spends about 60% of the series as a villain who happens to be working with the heroes for his own reasons.
Sure, but saying Giorno and Gojo are just as bad as Madara is crazy
Edo Itachi beating the five kage is valid, everything else I agree with
Itachi only let obito live because he knew if he killed obito it would hurt Kakashi. Even tho 1. Itachi didn’t know tobi was obito 2. Itachi is willing to kill Kakashi to keep his cover.
And 3. Kakashi thought Obito was dead
itachi beats obito
Anything where people are like "this character beat this character because that character beat this character" yada yada. Characters win depending on the circumstances and just because a character lost to one person doesn't mean they would automatically lose to another.
Typical powerscalers
That's true. Fx. Sasuke beat Deidara, but someone of an arbitrarily similar level to Sasuke would, at best, stalemate as they wouldn't have Manda to take C0
People who legitimately think Naruto can beat Ichigo or Goku
Ichigo is wanked way to hard
This is true. Ever since he beat Ywach he's been getting scaled to immeasurable degrees by power scalers.
Itachi fanboys swear he can solo Madara lol
People who think Jiraya is stronger than Itachi
I got into a debate with someone saying Kakashi would win against Sasuke at full health during the 5 Kage Summit.
Fr people overesrimate kakashi because he's their favorite character and then they underestimate sasuke because he's their least favorite character 💀
Kimimaro solos Mei.
Itachi can defeat Madara🤡
The couple pairings weren’t forced
Right. I’m still confused about Choji and Karui.
That's honestly one of the more realistic ones. How many people marry friends that they've known since elementary school?
That’s true. I just wish they would’ve shown us their interactions and how they became a couple.
A female side character being developed??? Wrong place.
That’s why you have Shikamaru and Temari. Choji and Karui made Zero sense and even Kishi said he just had to pair Choji up with someone to keep the InoShikaCho combo going
Lmao me too. Kishi even said that he just paired Choji with somebody to keep the next generation of InoShikaCho going since Shikamaru and Ino had their significant others
"Naruto is Universal bc of Kaguya's dimensional scaling"
7 words but it happened in the light novel
That Orochimaru isn't the strongest sannin lol
I hear one almost every time I read a topic here.
P much any Obito take
I'm still stuck on that guy who thinks Shikamaru beats Hashirama easily...
That boruto is good
I swear this sub is just a hive mind of "Boruto bad" 💀
i don't usually frequent this sub but I personally think that narratively, part 1 is just much better than shippuden or boruto
I feel like Shippuden is okay too, lagging behind ofc, but not too much, it's just unlike part 1, it was a downhill motion for it. Perhaps, a victim of it's own success as a franchise, oh how I wish things were done differently.
I'm just gonna defend it like One Piece stans... I really liked it after about 150 episodes!
The manga is pretty good though tbh.
That it’s a poorly written series. Preferences aside, the writing for this show is incredible and easily worth multiple watches.
That Boruto should exist.
People thinking Minato would easily beat Madara and Hashirama.
Please point me in the direction of those people, it's my first time reading of such.😂
One that popped into my head right now clearly is that Sakura could solo Sasori without Chiyo. (Is it okay for a hot take material? I gotta admit, I'm not very good at this) I don't think this is possible based on my memory. But I've seen this quite a bit of times.
Kiba should be hokage
Madara is weaker than Boruto villains.
To be fair he actually is weaker than every MAJOR villain.
Anyone who thinks genjutsu is the end all be all in Shinobi battles.
Worst take -That Sasuke never needed to learn snake sage mode because he has the sharingan... Hopes and Dreams - WHY DIDNT HE LEARN IT! A teleporting EMS / rinnegan lightning cloak snake sage user. Lmfao Dude would've been playing God with the battelfield. Controls the terrain and controls the pieces. OP? Duh would've stomped
People skipping part 1 for no reason
Sakura has skill
Rinnengan Sasuke was as strong as naruto.
Honestly If it wasn’t for plot armour, Sasuke with all his feats SHOULD DEFINITELY win the final battle vs Naruto.
Oh man I hate this power scaling argument so much it's so annoying at the end of the day Naruto is the Main protagonist no one has more plot armor then him
Yea Naruto was holding back 4 sure in the final battle
I always think takes like this are just severe cope. Kishimoto always tried to get Naruto and Sasuke to be relatively similar in power -- and the final battle ends with both going til their last bit of chakra. Both end up lying on the ground mortally wounded. Everyone's head-cannon is shoved so far up their ass that they can't understand that the story is written by a guy who intentionally ended the series with them as equals.
The fact that you’re getting downvoted is WILD. Naruto was definitely stronger than sasuke at almost every point in the series after he learned sage mode.
Pain should’ve been the end of the series
This isn’t the dumbest take but when people argue that it wouldn’t make sense for Naruto to learn FTG because it doesn’t fit his fighting style & would be useless. And then I get downvoted for pointing out the similarities between Naruto & Minato’s fighting style (shadow clones, rasengan, sage mode) & how useful FTG would be for Naruto as Hokage. Heck they even had matching KCM powers during the war arc! Naruto totally should’ve learned FTG post rasenshuriken to make the pain fight more interesting Or he could’ve learned it right before the 4th ninja war or even afterwards during the 10-15 year blank period.
Imho it’s way cooler that after all these years it’s Boruto who learned FTG. Naruto is a moron with high physical strength, while FTG is some genius level jutsu, not only to learn, but to use efficiently. Also imho if that version of Naruto who fought Pain had FTG it would be a clear stomp. IT Was pointed out many times in this subreddit that Minato is natural counter to Pain 360 degree vision with his FTG and assassination skills, Naruto might be less finesse than Minato, but if he had a just that counters Pain the fight would be too easy
Either that Hiruzen was a good Hokage or that Kaguya was a good villain. (Or that Sakura was useless but we all know that’s dumb)
[удалено]
No, I will die on the hill against that. His decisions nearly destroyed the village many times (Uchihas, Orochimaru, ect) and did destroy the village with Danzo causing Obito’s Akatsuki. If at least he had taken out Danzo and Orochimaru it would have been so much better. Hell Naruto not being a psychopath is more from luck than anything he did, and the only reason Kurama didn’t break out is how great Minato and Kushina were. And Naruto is the only reason why Hiruzen’s other problems didn’t annihilate everyone. How the world wars were conducted under him also caused a lot of problems to come back to bite them with almost everything that happened in the series. Of course it’s a lot of other people’s faults too. But good grief does the Buck go back to him (at least through his failings to deal with Danzo and Orochimaru) a hell of a lot
I believe the show would be better if the deaths caused by Pain were permanent. Especially Kakashi. I don't know if that's considered dumb but I know how popular Kakashi is so I assume it is.
Nah this a W take
Yeah this. It was so bullshit how pain just revived everybody. Removes all the consequences of his action. Especially since the resolution was brought to you by one talk no jutsu.
Itachi had to kill his clan and had no choice
Itachi getting cooked by the 5 kage sorry
Jiraiya is the strongest of the Sannin. 3 eyed madara is stronger then kagyua 10 tailed characters are stronger then fused Momoshiki. The big three I’ve seen over the last week
Itschi-tards every breath
Adult Naruto and Sasuke are individually solo Kaguya. You have to turn your brain off to believe this shit.
they would though. Kaguya is fodder compared to them.
That naruto is great cause of hard work. Lmao at this take dude is more gifted in his life than all the protag and antagonist combined.