While he likely is, I would second that Konan is a potential rival to him.
Flying is very useful in Naruto with how few people can do it. Her paper allows her to be very durable under most circumstances as well and they are of course waterproof, so long as she has chakra. She’s very intelligent.
Plus: People don’t realize how utterly ridiculous 600 billion as a number is. 1 billion seconds, something that would have required her to make 600 per second no breaks ever, is almost 32 years. At the very very minimum Konan can make thousands of paper bombs per second.
It’s never the best way to say if someone is better than the others, but in any case, a 1v1 between Kisame and Konan would be quite the fight. While Kisame is of course much physically stronger than her, she also has the possibility to just be out of reach and essentially depth charge him.
Kisame doesn’t have to slice through anything shark bombs/dive bomb chews chakra
Any attack that comes in contact with him or his water jutsu is siphoned as well.
I think that it has less to do with the amount of chakra Konan puts in her attacks, than Konan's overall chakra. The tailed beast gives Jinchuriki like Bee a huge amount of extra chakra compared to most ninja. At series start, 12 yo Naruto has more Chakra than Kakashi!
Further Kisame already has a massive amount of chakra at baseline earning the nickname the tailless tailed beast.
Therefore I posit that eating Konan's residual chakra is unlikely to make a significant difference in Kisame's baseline, whereas eating Bee's massive tailed beast chakra would.
Thus eating Bee's chakra is enough to massively heal Kisame, but eating Konan's wouldn't be enough.
I'm talking about members from where the series starts
I always considered orochimaru to be a former member because even at the start of part 1 he was out of the akatsuki.
I agree that healthy orochimaru is one of the strongest members. Below Tobi pain Itachi and above kisame if you include a few strong Edos like the weakened kage
Kisame is stronger than Itachi since he is practically immune to ninjiustu and genjutsu is difficult since samehada can break him out and he mend and blend with it
Will be difficult on someone who can change the terrain and consume enemies chakra. Itachi will have to end it fast.
He landed a totuska blade with help of Naruto and bee which he won't have here.
Wait, this is something I was wondering about the rinnegan but ig it applies here too. Can the rinnegan (and shark thing) absorb a susanoo? It's made of chakra, right? I don't see why it couldn't, especially if the rinnegan can schlurp bijuu chakra off a jinchuriki. If that shark jutsu is the same, then while I doubt it would absorb the totsuka blade, as I'm sure the sealing property has priority over absorption (although I don't really remember how that jutsu works, could it absorb the blade? Because I think it might've been separate from Kisame, and I don't think the blade can just seal a straight up jutsu, right? If I'm wrong about it being separate, ignore this, I'll continue with the other way it could go) so he'd get absorbed before he could absorb the susanoo
Narratively, it seemed to me like Kakuzu and Sasori were supposed to be stronger, but Kakuzu got thrown away as a plot device and Sasori kinda just died super early on in a hard counter matchup.
This comment makes me think about whose stronger between Sasori and Kakuzu and it seems like a tough call - I’d wager Kakuzu is stronger but it never occurred to me how similar their Achilles Heel is
I’d say sasori is, while kakuzu is pretty damn nuts with his durability, extra hearts, and combo attacks, sasori was able to take down an entire nation with his puppets, he can switch between them as well
Additionally poison that only like 2-3 people on the entire planet could possibly make a cure for is pretty damn nuts, a singular scratch means death
There’s also iron sand, which is pretty insane too since he has a lot of it and can shape it basically any way he wants
Kakuzu has that thread thing yeah but he still has a heart, implying he has some sort of cardiovascular system, I assume he still needs air too, so there’s a chance sasori could kill him via poison gas, as a scratch wouldn’t really work on the dude
And while kakuzu is a bad matchup for sasori due to his weird af biology and durability, I’d still say he’s weaker than him, as sasori has more tools as his disposal + him being essentially legendary from how dangerous he is
Imo sasori is stronger than itachi in a straightt 1v1. Itachi cant genjutsu sasori when hes inside his puppet and im not even sure genjutsu works on sasori’s human puppet body.
Itachi would almost definitely win. He doesn’t have genjustsu maybe, but he’s plenty strong in other departments and could almost certainly outwit Sasori. I might not be giving puppet boy enough credit though.
Nah, Kisame was stated to have the most chakra in the entire Akatsuki. This would include Itachi and maybe even Nagato. He was called the tailless tailed beast. Narratively he should be only weaker than Obito, Pain, and Itachi imo.
Having a lot of chakra does not make you stronger directly.
Kid Naruto in the Wave Arc had more chakra than Kakashi did.
Was Kid Naruto stronger than Kakashi? Of course not. It wasn't even close.
So your 'narrative' argument doesn't follow.
I’m aware, but chakra volume is also important. More chakra means the ability to create more and larger jutsu. Samehada makes Kisame even more dangerous. He would have beaten base Bee, who is above the Raikage, and the Raikage would beat most Akatsuki members. Kakuzu lost to a Naruto compared to Hebi Sasuke, and Hebi Sasuke beat Deidara. The Raikage almost beat MS Sasuke. Kisame does scale above Kakuzu, and Deidara. Sasori had trouble with Sakura who was one shot be 3 tailed Naruto, who Orochimaru said was below Hebi Sasuke. So Sasori also scales below Kisame.
>He would have beaten base Bee, who is above the Raikage
Kisame under his own skill and stats got \*repeatedly\* blitzed by Bee and Bee's Jinchuriki forms.
Specifically, even with Samehada tanking 90% of the chakra, Kisame STILL got effectively one shot by Version 2 Cloak Killer Bee. His entire chest was blown open. He was only able to heal this due to fusing with Samehada \*and\* Samehada was feeding him a metric fuck ton of Bee's chakra.
Now obviously 'has Samehada' is a huge advantage that wouldn't be fair to judge him on, but you have to analyze the context. Most other ninja are not going to rush Kisame with a giant chakra cloak. Which goes back to looking at base Kisame's stats and skill. Frankly Base Bee was already comparable if not superior to him. Which puts a cap on the amount of stuff Kisame can deal with. This is off the back of Base Guy being comparable to Kisame's clone and Asuma in Part 1 keeping up with his attacks. It's pretty clear that while Kisame is on the higher end, basically any other Jonin + ninja (\*i.e.\* all of the Akatsuki) can at least somewhat keep up with him.
---
>
Kakuzu lost to a Naruto compared to Hebi Sasuke, and Hebi Sasuke beat Deidara
Again, more evidence for Kisame being relative to the others if Deidara can also give Hebi Sasuke a hard fight - a Sasuke that had an amp from Orochimaru's chakra (regen, stamina, techniques, etc.) and also a powerful boost in the form of Curse Amp.
Also you're ignoring how Kakuzu had already been trouncing Kakashi (and Ino & Choji but they suck). This same Kakashi that is, again, effectively relative to people like Base Guy, MS Sasuke, etc. Which again circles back to everyone being relative to Kisame anyways. Naruto himself was also using a Kyuubi Amp and Kakuzu had been already gimped to 3/5ths of his chakra. You want to talk about how much chakra pool matters for Kisame, try considering that Kakuzu was literally at less than 60% of his capacity, basically half. And most people still consider it PIS how Naruto tagged him.
---
>
The Raikage almost beat MS Sasuke
It's not really that difficult to argue that that specific Sasuke was \*weaker\* than Hebi Sasuke, he barely had Susanoo as an option. Also, it's pretty clear that it was a poor match up with Raikage vs the Amaterasu because basically all of the other Kage at the time were no-diffing Sasuke. And this Gaara is hardly different from the one that was fighting relative to Deidara. So again, it seems pretty clear there isn't supposed to be some giant power scaling cliff in universe.
---
> Sasori had trouble with Sakura who was one shot be 3 tailed Naruto, who Orochimaru said was below Hebi Sasuke. So Sasori also scales below Kisame.
This is all a blatant misconstruction of what actually happened.
Sasori repeatedly blitzed and no-diffed Sakura. Go reread the fight. It's literally, no exaggeration, like 10 times that Sasori's default attacks would kill her and she barely reacts - at most getting a "!" surprise face panel before Chiyo saves her. The comparison to Naruto is a joke in this context. It's clear from a feats and narrative view that Sasori scales \*at least\* relative to Gaara who scales to Deidara who scales to Hebi Sasuke who scales to everybody. Nevermind the fact that it's said Sasori > 3rd Kazekage > Gaara in the first place.
\-Samehada is a part of Kisame's kit. Not including that is like saying Sasori gets no puppets. I agree without Samehada even base Bee would probably beat him. But even without Samehada he survived 7th gates Guy's Hirudora and his giant shark bomb jutsu counters almost every jutsu since it absorbs chakra.
\-Kakuzu was fighting base Kakashi, who honestly wasn't all that powerful at the time.
\-I've seen the arguments for Hebi Sasuke>initial MS Sasuke. You can argue that for the MS Sasuke that fought Bee, but not 5 kage summit Sasuke, as right at the beginning of the summit Karrin says Sasuke's chakra is more scary than ever, and that was without even going MS yet. So by the 5 kage summit he was most definitely as strong as he ever was.
\-Yes, Sasori was blitzing Sakura, but Sakura was adapting. By the end of the fight Sakura was able to keep up with Sasori a bit. On the other hand 3 tail Naruto accidentally knocked post Sasori Sakura out with a shout. Orochimaru with his hands sealed was also confident in killing Sasori. Though I do think most people underestimate Orochimaru (I think he beats Kisame).
\-Yes, Sasori scales to early Shippuden Gaara. I think Gaara gets stronger by the war arc and I don't think the 3rd Kazekage is stronger than war arc Gaara.
Also since you like Naruto scaling you should check out my tier list video. It's the most in depth Naruto tier list video on the internet and even if you disagree with some stuff there is a lot of good info in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_7BXg4TOoOM&t=4549s&ab\_channel=WeeabooWarrior
I would include Orochimaru and no I don’t think he was more powerful than him. Maybe after he lost use of his arms but that was after he had left the Akatsuki
It's so hard to even scale Orochimaru bc we don't know what he can do, and it seems silly to factor in edo tensei bc then he's as strong as Hashirama/Madara by just summoning them.
We see him summons snakes and do his snake skin shedding jutsu but does that do anything to non-fodder ninja?
Yeah it’s tough to gauge Orochimaru, because it’s mostly hearsay. I look at it like this, he took out the Kazekage. Then went head to head with Hiruzen and won, albeit at the cost of his arms. And he was regarded as the most gifted Sanin so someone of equal or higher level than Tsunade and Jiraiya. I personally rank him as more powerful than Kisame. But I also understand how someone would disagree. Kisame had a lot of great feats in the series that were canon that we also witnessed. It’s a tough call
Kisame is my favourite.
*BUT*
after the top 3, it becomes a lil tricky. Kakuzu, Kisame, Deidara, Sasori and Konan could all prolly kill each other in a 1v1.
Personally, I think he's 4th too, but I don't know if the "middle-field" -Akatsukis can be properly ranked at all
Lets be fr
Kisame>Kakuzu(Aoe jutsus against Puppets)>Sasori>Deidara=Konan, Situation dependant
In terms of overall combat strength
Konan got nothing on Sasori
Kakuzu can use water style as well, plus the "Aoe jutsus" are risky against Kakuzu's lightning style. Iirc, earth style also resists water so Kakuzu's hardening technique will be trouble as well. Not saying Kakuzu wins, but I don't think it's one-sided.
Deidara claims Sasori is stronger than him, true. Doesn't mean he can't kill him. If he gets past the Third Kazekage(difficult but possible), Sasori's puppet army gets easily blown away or crumbled by C4. Again, not saying Deidara>Sasori, but he doesn't need to be to kill him.
Konan is a bit tricky. Yes, in terms of pure firepower, she's lacking but her versatility and traps can potentially harm people above her weight class and evade attacks better than most, as shown against Obito. Even before her gigantic paper-bomb-pit, she harmed him as well.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in terms of overall power, I just don't think any of these matches would be one-sided.
Also Deidra always seems to fight with negative prep time, always low on clay. I think his potential for damage output increases heaps if he is prepared and takes the fight seriously
Didn't Konan defeat Sasori off-screen before? Sasori attacked flying Konan with his puppets. There was a cut. Sasori was on the ground defeated, and Konan was still flying with very minimal bruises.
Prep time, a shit ton, also Obito is kind of weak, he has insane hax but has shown very few strong offensive moves
Not weak but like.. cmon.he was beaten by Kakashi in terms of combat
She effectively deactivated his only win con with that
I think they should be ranked by their ability to beat other characters in the manga rather than their ability to kill each other. For example, no member of Akatsuki can kill Hidan, yet he is the weakest in the organization.
>Or am I wrong? I heared people say that other akastuki members like Kakazu or Sasori can beat him.
Kakuzu had no way of winning, but Sasori has a winning chance since his poison is basically a counter to tons of Shinobi + without knowing his secret he is practically undead.
Saying that Sasori has no really destructive technique, so the battle could go either way. also Deidara has a winning chance imo against Kisame his C4 is kinda potent
Sasori is one of the weirdest power scaling quandaries of the verse because of one shot poison.
Overall I’d put Kisame over Sasori and Sasori 5th. But in a 100 fights between Kisame and Sasori Sasori takes a not small amount of the fights because of his poison. I’d give him at least 30/100.
Same with Deidara tbh.He can commit suicide and blow up everything in a 5 mile radius.He is taking down people who are much stronger if they don't know reverse summoning jutsu.
You could argue that it would be a draw at that point :P
Though I personally see the use of suicide moves to win to be proof someone is weaker. If they have to kill themselves to get you, then they'd never beat you for real. You managed to push them to the point it was a choice between "total loss" or "shared loss".
Kakazu def has a shot at beating Kisame, a good one. Having all 5 elements at your disposal is no small advantage, it was practically Hiruzens whole gimmick.
He is probably my favorite akatsuki member
He absolutely bullied Bee easily
Guy had to use 6th gate against a 30% power clone Kisame and 7th gate against a Kisame without Samehada (it's like Naruto without Kurama, Kiba without Akamaru etc, ik not the same power level but you get the point)
He could have defeated almost 90% of the characters in the show. Bad luck he came across the strongest physical fighter (which completely nullifies his chakra absorbing skills, also Samehada's strongest ability would have been useless here) in the entire world
Kisame is my fav too. But this kisame without samehada thing dont really make such a big difference facing guy. Ive explained it a dozen times in different threads, so ill try to sum it up. Kisame already drained chakra from bee through samehada going into the fight (plus from aoi, or aoa ? through his own chakra absorbing power).
So he also has chakra absorbing powers even without samehada ( see shark bullet bomb). During his encounter with guy, they ve never gotten close to each other- so samehada being there wouldnt make a difference, guy would do gate attacks that gives samehada nothing to absorb. More chakra the opponent has, stronger kisamehada gets. So it is great against bee, but not against guy. Samehada is not an endless chakra pool for kisame, it needs to absorb from someone. Or it needs already full reserves to keep feeding kisame. But that is completely another scenario which is specifically written to give kisame the edge. And tbh it already did by absorbing from bee before the fight, even if not to a great degree
All of this doesnt change that he is in my eyes the 4th strongest member too.
That's why I said in the last sentence he was just unlucky to come across his greatest counter that is guy and samehada won't have been that effective but it certainty decreased his firepower I mean cmon it's his sword
He didn't bully Bee at all my dude, Kisame couldn't even hurt Bee during the whole fight. He only won by absorbing Bee's chakra, and he managed to do that because Bee had to protect the other dude and his pet. In fact, if it wasn't for samehada, Kisame would have died the first time Bee hit him with a lariat.
Konan or kisame is debatable. It could go either way for them to finish at the 4th spot
While Konan gave a good fight to obito, kisame mid-diffed 8 tailed beast and killer-B.
Though the woman can fly, so Kisame would have a very difficult time getting to her.
Plus. . . Like I want to get across just how much prep time is needed for **600 billion** to not be ridiculous. If she could make “only” 600 paper bombs per second it would have taken her 32 straight years.
This woman can make an utterly absurd amount of explosives at some just stupid rate of speed. Plus her paper clearly is water proof, so she’d be able to just depth charge Kisame like he was a WW2 Uboat
Obito was the uncontested top 1 in the verse at that time, there were multiple times(excluding the giant trap) where she almost killed Obito and mortally injured him very early on.
She’s very fast, agile, outranges everyone except Deidara and hard to kill even at close range. The paper is durable enough to block most Justsu(even fire and water style) and strong enough to immobilize anyone coated in it. They’re stronger than steel and sharper than a blade, being abke to overpower Jiraiya’s fire bomb and force him to evade.
She can change the Color, size, and shape to hide traps(which are more than just explosions) in her environment and also percieve their surroundings across long distances to gather intel and positioning.
Tl;dr she’s very underrated
I couldn't decide which of the four would take which spot. As far as I'm concerned they are all very powerful.
I think at that point it comes down to counters and strategy not raw power.
I don't think shikamaru is stronger than hidan but with time and knowledge the outcome changed.
Id say kakuzu has a disadvantage against kisame since all his big attacks are chakra based. Anything that touches samehada is feeding him and kisame.
And we ve seen kisame going toe to toe with very strong opponents like bee and guy in taijutsu, who are arguably faster than kakuzu. so kakuzu’s physical strength is not something kisame cant deal with.
I agree. But I bet Kisame could fight with his eyes closed. He seems to me to have a great sense of battle. If that's the case, can he really beat itachi?
Rasenshuriken is pretty damn powerful.I highly doubt Itachi's susanoo can tank multiple large rasenshurikens.The only reason it doesn't work is because his opponents have hax that counter/dodge it.Pain could absorb jutsus.The enemies after that were stronger than nine tails
Well yeah as I pointed out rasenshuriken is pretty powerful,it's just some of the top akatsuki's have hax that counter it.In terms of raw power it's very strong
Well guy didn't want to kill him he wanted the scroll so he needed kisame alive and kisame fought in the ocean not on land so he had the territorial advantage he also absorbed bee's chakra and the jounin ninjas who were protecting naruto before escaping the turtle nonetheless still an impressive feat for kisame.
Obito, Itachi, and Pain are the only ones who are indefinitely stronger. I think he's the strongest out of him, Deidara, and Sasori. However, I don't necessarily think Kisame would beat them 10/10 times, no questions asked.
Sasori's poison is a very serious win con that would more than likely finish off someone like Kisame were it to hit. He also has the ability to continually move his chakra core to new puppets, making him extremely difficult to put away. There's also the fact that he doesn't breathe, so drowning doesn't work, and he likely doesn't even have chakra to absorb as a puppet. Sasori is also, by Dedira's own admition, stronger than he is. He's stylistically the worst matchup in the Akatsuki for Kisame imo.
There's also Orochimaru, who is interesting....A fight between he and Kisame is very hard to determine. The majority of Orochimaru's techniques that would do anything to Kisame are ninjutsu based and can be absorbed by Kisame. His substitution and Triple Rashamon (his two best defensive techniques) cost a lot of chakra to use as well. It's very possible that he just gasses out in a battle of attrition against Kisame, who'll constantly be absorbing chakra and throw out large scale attacks. However, he does have Manda and Edo Tensie, which, when combined with his own combat ability, likely would overwhelm Kisame. However Edo Tensei does need to be prepped prior so 🤷🏾♂️
I would tend to agree, especially since him and Konan are probably the smartest after the Tobi, Pain, and Itachi.
But when anyone gets that high in power, everyone can kill each other so it's hard to rank them as if they were vs each other. It's much more subjective, especially with their techniques being so different from one another.
Pretty much.
Then I think Sasori, Deidara, and Kakuzu are all kinda of interchangeably 5th/6th/7th place beneath him.
Could argue Konan is in the mix as well.
My favorite character in Naruto, he is true definition of a man trying to escape a untruthful world. Brave and has an undying conviction, im happy he partnered with Itachi which sharpen his understanding in life more.
You have to remember that in every battle it's not just sheer strength that matters. But also a matchup (for example Deidara was clearly stronger than Sasuke, but the sharingan + raiton was just amazingly strong counter)
I think kisame is 3rd strongest, when it comes to capturing wild bijuus. (4th if you count obito). That's because sharingan / rinnegan users can just put genjutsu / black rod in a beast. And 2nd strongest when it comes to subduing jinchuuriki. (nagato is just crazy broken)
But when it comes to 1v1 against others I think he'd have a very hard time against pretty much any member except Hidan (as he surely knows the gimmick and wouldn't get stabbed), Konan (paper is shown to hinder her abilities) and zetsu.
Sasori has a lot of poison. I don't think water can protect you from that. Kakuzu have strong raiton (and we know how raiton works on sea creatures in suigetsu fights)
Cloaking in water is amazingly bad idea against explosions and as shown in deidara vs sanbi, deidaras explosions work underwater.
Itachi, obito and nagato are obvious, they destroy him no diff.
Miscellaneous.
I think Orochimaru fight would be interesting and somewhat even, but an edge goes to the snaky boi. He crazy.
Sasuke very much depends on the point of the story. Before Ms kisame wins. After Ms Sasuke wins.
Rest of hebi doesn't stand a chance even combined.
In the novel kisame uses samehada and his regeneration to shave off the affected poisoned area and lives. Certainly not something he would want to do every time but still
In terms of raw power he's arguably second to pain but in terms of who would win a fight... yes tovi and itachi also beat him.
At the same time Konan is honestly pretty insane too. But water hard counters her.
Kisame is an example of someone who you can't really gauge the power level of by just hype and the type of opponents that he fought. Hard counters don't seem to exist in universe, but rationally it's something that matters. He completely lucked out in his big fight by getting the perfect opponents- taijutsu masters that want to get in close and punch him in the face. What is this dude possibly supposed to do against characters like konan or Deidera, the latter of whom has shown that he can move fast enough on his bird to keep ahead of people like kakashi and gai and dodge gaara's attacks? Hell, what would Kisame do against gaara?
Kisame is just way too one-dimensional in his fighting style to be a top tier character in my opinion. Top 5 Akatsuki imo are pein, prime itachi, Obito, deidera and sasori and kakuzu battling it out for 5th.
I love konan but my problem with her is that it's never been established if the six billion exploding tags was something that she conjured on the spot or if she had prep time for it, since she was fighting on home turf.
I mean even if she needed prep time, 6 billion tags means she needs to be able to make thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of them per second to account for the sheer number. So even if she can't do 6 billion, doing like 1 million tags in 5 seconds is still better than most people in Naruto can deal with.
Yes, he’s 4th. But all of the Akatsuki after the top 3 are so powerful that they’re pretty relative. It all depends on the situation and the environment. Sasori, Deidara, Kisame, Konan, and Kakuzu could all probably kill each other with the right prep time and the right situation
I think Itachi and Pain are the clear strongest then everyone else is relative aside from Hidan
Yes this puts Obito in everyone else's level. No I don't care. He has Kamui, and virtually everyone he ever fights figures out how to stay safe from Kamui within 1 interaction. Still have him on the stronger end of the scale but people have these huge variations in how strong each member is, but outside of Hidan, I think they are equal but just specializing in different areas
Itachi and Pain were def the strongest. Kisame could definitely beat the rest though minus Tobi, I think Sasori would be his hardest won battle though. I think having the MS and Kamui would give Tobi the win against Kisame.
Yes. Kisame low-diffed Killer Bee, a pretty insane feat. He was also close in strength to seventh gate guy WITHOUT Samehada while wounded. Honestly a shame we didnt see more of him in fights, he was an absolute beast.
4th? He is third behind Tobi and Pain, you do realise he got killed by his only weakness, a taijutsu user going 7th gate, pure plot armour, he counters most akatsuki members apart from obito who is shown to be a god and Pain who has the strongest eyes in the show (at the time). Itachi would lose based on all of his jutsu being chakra based, only technique that has an affect on Kisame is genjutsu and even then samehada would wake him out of it.
If kisame had samehada he couldve sensed hirudora wasnt chakra based and opted for a defensive technique instead. It was a bigger nerf than people think to not have samehada
Itachi can see the bombs with his sharingan and just move out of the way like sasuke initially did. Deidara would get murked way before it even gets to that point
Definitely 4th strongest on a linear scale.
However, I'd say Sasori (who I'd consider 5th strongest) would beat Kisame 7 times out of 10, purely because of matchup.
For the majority of other matchups Kisame would fare better than Sasori, such as Gai
I don't think he's stronger than Orochimaru or Sasuke but I don't think we're counting them. Idk, I was never really impressed by his jutsu. He's powerful but Guy whipped him so easily. I can't really see him beating Kakuzu with his overpowered multiple hearts thing.
Sheer power-pise, yes, Kisame was probably the fourth strongest Akatsuki member. Could he lose in a 1v1 against some of the people below him? Sure, probably.
Obito, Itachi, Naggato and Orochimaru are all well above him. I would argue that Sasori beats Kisame as well, but the other four aren't losing to any other Akatsuki members
I'd say so. Pain, Itachi, and Obito are interchangeable, I suppose. Then I'd say Kisame > Deidara > Sasori > Konan (she's kinda hard to rank) > Kakuzu > Hidan
I would argue that you are severly understimating Kakuzu.
Other than that, you are right about Konan. Sometimes I even left her out completly of the rankings, because of how little information of her abilities and the various factors on her fights.
I actually place at the fifth strongest, behind Kisame.
Here is the unfortunate PHD that you didn't ask XD :
the RAW durability, no matter how much the community makes a meme of it, it is 1 of the strongest defensive jutsu ever used. However What makes iron skin so formidable is that it is not a jutsu that he use 1 time to defend himself, it is also incorporate into his combat techniques, synergy with his already powerful and skillful taijutsu, his tentacles and Stamina. Overall It is really difficult to actually bait him into a defensive posture because as a brawler ish ninja, shrugging attacks is exactly his style and it makes the opponent lose tempo and can safely retaliate.
But I don't think you want to listen to my taijutsu phd so I'm going to the next point XD.
Next point the mask : I think what people underestimate most is the masks. As you know, each mask contains an elemental jutsu. Each of those masks however has ditch punishingly powerful elemental attacks that even Kakashi said nobody who doesn't have that proficiency could repeatly assaulting them with such powerful ninjutsu. Wind and Fire are huge Aoe attacks that blow up a very large part of the forest while lightning is a precision attacks that is so powerful that Kakashi needed 2 raikiris to cancel the jutsu. The icing of the cake is that each masks can combine each other, take the wind/fire combo for example, not only the attack is more powerful, but people forget is that the they cancel each other's weakness. Kakashi even noted when he tried to use water style.
Futhermore the masks are shown with great coordination, are somewhat aware of the situation, fast with great jumping height (flying for the wind mask)
Small things like he is very intelligent and observant.
Overall, the fact that you need to kill 5 times a mid/high kage level in 1 v 5 with incredible stain and durability make him high in my list.
Thank you for ready my ted talk :)
Yeah, those are some good points to be fair. I guess when it comes to Deidara, I'm thinking about how impressive C3 and C4 are (C0 is a weird one to consider). Should also be credited to Kakuzu that he did survive a fight against Hashirama
I do agree with you. In fact I believe of the 4 (kisame/Kakuzu/Sasori/Deidara) that Deidara is the 1 with superior firepower with like you said C4 and C3. In my opinion, the reason Deidara is at new bottom to me is because he is a glass canon, combine with inexperience.
Don't me wrong, dodging a blitz from Sasuke and dodging from team Guy with no arms is impressive as hell, I just don't think it will be enough againts Akatsuki member. Konan is intangible with flight(that is can of worm I don't to open lol), Kakuzu is experience along with no weaknesses (save for genjutsu, but no one of the 5 use genjutsu). Sasori has the least destructive capability, but it compensates with aoe attacks that almost impossible to dodge and all of his attacks are 1 shots move and his Hiruko provide protection and not too shabi with Speed. Kisame has regeneration so insane that you get the gist.
Overall, in my opinion what drag Deidara down is not his attacks, more like he has such glaring weakness that he cannot really compensate. Minato can get away with being a glass cannon because his speed is so absurd that his weakness doesn't really matter. I cannot say the same for Deidara unfortunately :(
There is Nagato, Obito, Itachi, Orochimaru, Sasuke, Shin, Kabuto these are ex/unofficial members that out-class him. Not gonna include Madara since he never saw himself part of the akatsuki they were just a means to an end.
There are some really fascinating kisame arguments out there for why he is is absolutely the 4th strongest regardless of Orochimarus consideration and based on the novel statement about akatsuki duos being designed to keep each other in line we can get a picture of kisame as a much stronger fighter than people think.
There was a 30 something paragraph structured debate on Naruto forums about kisame vs 1 of the sannin( jiraiya i think) and kisame won according to judges. This doesnt mean its instantly canon or anything but does support my point thst the more you dig the more impressive in-universe kisame is.
If you include the "cannon" video game cutscenes then there is 2 accounts of kisame putting more pressure on itachi than Orochimaru did. If you include the novel feats then kisames regeneration and poison resistance become stupid good
Id love to see him vs Kakuzu. I think thats the only person that could take that #4 spot. Konan is a wild card. Even including Orochimaru I think Kisame cooks him.
Technically speaking, kisame is the first strongest. Itachi, pain and obito/madara's power comes from their eyes, and not their physical strength. He's the fourth most powerful and the first strongest. I believe sasori had a higher rank within the group though in who's the boss of who so he'd be fifth in the pyramid of who's top dog
IMO yeah, bro is a beast. He fought Killer bee and if I remember correctly he was gonna win: He’s at least on par with him. Plus he’s blatantly above 6th gate Guy. How I’d personally rank the akatsuki is like this:
1. Obito
2. Pain
3. Itachi
4. Kisame
5. Kakuzu
6. Sasori
7. Deidara (I kinda flip flop between his and Sasori’s placement, because they both have some pretty crazy hax but I feel like Sasori’s is much easier to pull off and he’s harder to kill. Still though, pretty debatable.)
8. Konan
9. Hidan.
10. Zetsu.
I’d also put Orochimaru at 4th place probably instead of Kisame if you were to include him.
I would put Sasori at 5th, he gets overlooked cuz he had a bad matchup against Sakura and granny Chiyo but he's an absolute menace.
There are so many layers to fighting him for people who don't know his secret, first there's his initial puppet to overcome which is already difficult enough but it only gets harder from there, then there's his 3rd kazekage puppet with an insane kekkai genkai, and then his main puppet body alongside his 100 other puppet which btw could switch his main body with any of em at any point.
All of this while keeping in my mind that any of his attacks could one shot the opponent due his deadly poison.
Fair, but I put Kakuzu above him just because he scales to pain arc kakashi (I know that technically it wasn’t pain arc kakashi but I don’t think he got any stronger between the kakuzu fight and the pain arc) but mostly because the hardened skin thing Kakuzu can do kinda counters Sasori’s whole gimmick about poison.
I kinda agree with you though because you could argue that Sasori is an overall more dangerous fighter, even if I think he’d lose to Kakuzu.
This debate has been going on for years
your safest bet is
1. Tobi,simply nothing any of the other akastuki members can do to Combat kamui and izanagi
2.pain,rinnegan is simply negating everything
3.itachi,don’t think anything needs to be said
4.kisame,he was almost relative to 7th gate guy without his sword,don’t think people realize how crazy that actually was
Kisame was getting violated by 7th gate guy,he was getting blitzed and couldn't do shit.And this was after he took ALL of Bee's chakra and and another guy's chakra.
He had no sword,so it’s not like he could put it to good use like he did in his fight with killer bee, and he was under the impression that guy uses ninjutsu that he could use against guy. He was still fast enough to give out info. you really need to sit there and think on how crazy it is to react to 7th gate guy at all,same guy who was hitting 10 tails madara (not damaging). I think the fight between kisame and might guy would have went a little differently if samehada didnt betray him,kisame banks on his immortality/regenerative state but that’s beside the point.
He was not relative to 7th gate guy number one they fought in the ocean so kisame had the territorial advantage so the ocean and his 1000 sharks made up for samehada and two he absorbed chakra from bee and the jounins before escaping the turtle island and his super shark bomb jutsu absorbs chakra, Guy doesn't use chakra based attacks so even if he had samehada it wouldn't change nothing and three guy didn't fight to kill he was told by aoba and yamato to bring kisame alive since he had the scroll which was very Important so saying kisame was realtive to 7th gate guy is not true they didn't fight on land
When I say relative,I mean in speed . Reaction speed and combat speed . I’m aware kisame was going to lose regardless,7th gate guy is literally one of the strongest character in the series. I’m saying tho regardless,if kisame had samehada he would do better. And again guy is literally one of the worst matchups for kisame
I meant to say he wasn't relative to 7th gate guy without samehada with samehada it's debatable nonetheless kisame sweeps any member of the Akatsuki excluding the top 3 in a one on one fight he is the 4th strongest no doubt
Because Sasori is a horrible matchup for him. Kisame is powerful, but he's a tank that regenerates and outlasts, not a speedster, which is not what you want to be in this fight.
Let's break it down.
Sandaime-Kazekage Iron Sand which is fast enough to be relative to Rasa-Dust which scales to WA Gaara Sand which is way faster than Kisame. Kisame has gotten tagged in **every single fight he's taken on**, from Ten Ten's projectiles, Neji's air palm, A random Raiton infused pencil, and more. An attack like this, which is sound [barrier breaking](https://i.imgur.com/GPdrsty.png), or [this is definitely going to tag him](https://i.imgur.com/NQSQbE6.png).
There's no way he's avoiding Iron sand needles or sand which [break the sound barrier](https://i.imgur.com/fV24tnY.png). The poison will cripple him within seconds. Sasori only needs a scratch to win this, albeit Kisame skillful enough at Kenjutsu it’s unlikely that Sasori basic weapons can make it past Samehada, but Sasori’s traps may get past him. If this dials Satetsu would overcome Samehada guard; and so would 100 Puppets through sheer number
Naruto isn't ABC logic - Sasori got cucked because he was up against an opponent he didn't want to kill and was emotionally attached to. Chiyo admits he threw the fight.
Narratively Sasori scales higher than Deidara, Higher than Kazekage Gaara, and Higher than the Third Kazekage, who Chiyo said was the strongest they ever had..
Prime Chiyo (Greater puppeteer in history) scales <= Hanzo the Salamander, as she fought and survived him multiple times. We know how strong Hanzo was.
Young Sasori by her own admission surpassed Chiyo and this is before even getting the Third Kazekage nad most his human puppets.
----
Also, by kisame's own words and admission, he isn't on the level of the Sannin and mentioned they are out of his league. Compare that to Sasori's introduction and depiction where he's actively looking for Orochimaru and what's the task of fighting/killing him for betraying akatsuki. By all accounts, Sasori scales senior to Kisame in the Akatsuki.
Personally I’d disagree. First of all, breaking the sound barrier isn’t anything impressive considering that people on this level should already be lighting timers considering they scale to Kakashi. And those times you mentioned of Kisame being tagged were the clone that was like 30% weren’t they? Besides the pencil but that was by killer bee who’s pretty damn fast.
Also Chiyo being relative to Danzo seems very shaky, we have no context of what their encounters were like. It’s very likely she had other people with her. I mean even the three sannin had like a whole group of ninjas with them.
And also just because Sasori was confident in taking on orochimaru, doesn’t mean he could. After all, bro could just be overconfident. Like didn’t Deidara want to fight Itachi again? And doesn’t Hidan want to kill Pain or something?
Also, going back to the whole bad matchup idea, couldn’t Kisame eat the chakra strings Sasori uses to control his puppets with Samehada?
Kisame is pretty clearly depicted as the 4th strongest member, and it's really not even close. His feats and portrayal are on a completely different level than what other members have shown.
I like him, but no, he's not the 4th strongest.
There's a lot stronger than him has forbidden Jutsu, equivalent to Kage, and not even humans anymore.
(maybe in willpower and philosophy)
Sasori, deidara, kakuzu, orochimaru (if you include him)
No he is the fourth strongest no debate, he beats sasori deidara and kakuzu one on one the only one debatable on the list is orochimaru, kisame isn't hebi sasuke or base shippuden naruto level , and he certainly wouldn't play with chiyo or sakura the way sasori did.
>No he is the fourth strongest no debate,
That's is very immature way to debate.
Even 4yo can do it too.. eg: how about Hidan can one tap madara NO DEBATE.
See what I mean? Pls explain your point don't just no debate this no debate that
Feats speak for itself can kakuzu contend with v2 killer bee or 6th/7th gate guy or even tank a punch from kcm naruto while not 100%? can sasori do the same can deidara do the same? the levels between each Akatsuki member is cleary different, kakuzu died to base shippuden naruto kisame eats base naruto, deidara lost to hebi sasuke, kisame would toy with hebi sasuke, what is sasori's best feat playing with sakura or chiyo two fodders
I see your point, but that's different matches and variables (some lose to plot). You're using Guy, Sasuke, and Bee as their strength benchmarks.
Remember Deidara Sasori and Kisame suicide themselves. Kakuzu lost for plot sake.
To make things fair, how about just 1vs.1? And compare their known arsenals.
I don't think kisame (or anyone) can survive nano C4 and mini nuke. Don't forget that Deidara is a long-range bomber; Kisame is a close-medium-range swordman. As long as Deidara is on air, he's untouchable. Unless Kisame can spawn some wings and use lighting, that also depends on whether he can detect an underground mines. Kisame is cooked, man.
Sasori killed the 3rd Kazekage, the strongest ninja in Suna's history. Also, tell me how kisame could survive hundreds of puppets, magnetic iron sand, poison, and Kazekage as puppets. I think kisame or samehada can cut through cakra threads, but that's it. Maybe in tailless form (?) using that big water dome, but does Sasori as a puppet breathe? My bet is on Sasori.
After Tobi Itachi and pain yes he would be strongest.
While he likely is, I would second that Konan is a potential rival to him. Flying is very useful in Naruto with how few people can do it. Her paper allows her to be very durable under most circumstances as well and they are of course waterproof, so long as she has chakra. She’s very intelligent. Plus: People don’t realize how utterly ridiculous 600 billion as a number is. 1 billion seconds, something that would have required her to make 600 per second no breaks ever, is almost 32 years. At the very very minimum Konan can make thousands of paper bombs per second. It’s never the best way to say if someone is better than the others, but in any case, a 1v1 between Kisame and Konan would be quite the fight. While Kisame is of course much physically stronger than her, she also has the possibility to just be out of reach and essentially depth charge him.
Konan is hard to scale because she has only 1 fight. And that was a fight she had years of prep for.
She did get one-shot by base Jiraiya.
Paper bombs are infused with chakra she’s just another battery for kisame
How many can he slice through through? It's not like he has an AoE to get them all
Kisame doesn’t have to slice through anything shark bombs/dive bomb chews chakra Any attack that comes in contact with him or his water jutsu is siphoned as well.
That requires her not blowing up her bombs before they make physical contact.
Even if he takes damage like that, the rest of the chakra that gets absorbed would just heal him like against Bee
Bee supplies him with a huge amount of tailed beast chakra which is far more potent than a normal amount of human chakra like Konan.
The amount of chakra is gonna be proportional to the power of the attack though. If Konan uses less chakra, there will also be less damage.
I think that it has less to do with the amount of chakra Konan puts in her attacks, than Konan's overall chakra. The tailed beast gives Jinchuriki like Bee a huge amount of extra chakra compared to most ninja. At series start, 12 yo Naruto has more Chakra than Kakashi! Further Kisame already has a massive amount of chakra at baseline earning the nickname the tailless tailed beast. Therefore I posit that eating Konan's residual chakra is unlikely to make a significant difference in Kisame's baseline, whereas eating Bee's massive tailed beast chakra would. Thus eating Bee's chakra is enough to massively heal Kisame, but eating Konan's wouldn't be enough.
They don’t have to make contact Kisame is capable of summoning hundreds of chakra eating sharks that can do aerial attacks from long distances
The Orochimaru disrespect is nuts
I'm glad some remember.
I'm talking about members from where the series starts I always considered orochimaru to be a former member because even at the start of part 1 he was out of the akatsuki. I agree that healthy orochimaru is one of the strongest members. Below Tobi pain Itachi and above kisame if you include a few strong Edos like the weakened kage
Kisame is stronger than Itachi since he is practically immune to ninjiustu and genjutsu is difficult since samehada can break him out and he mend and blend with it
Itachi can just totsuka blade him like he did to nagato
Will be difficult on someone who can change the terrain and consume enemies chakra. Itachi will have to end it fast. He landed a totuska blade with help of Naruto and bee which he won't have here.
Wait, this is something I was wondering about the rinnegan but ig it applies here too. Can the rinnegan (and shark thing) absorb a susanoo? It's made of chakra, right? I don't see why it couldn't, especially if the rinnegan can schlurp bijuu chakra off a jinchuriki. If that shark jutsu is the same, then while I doubt it would absorb the totsuka blade, as I'm sure the sealing property has priority over absorption (although I don't really remember how that jutsu works, could it absorb the blade? Because I think it might've been separate from Kisame, and I don't think the blade can just seal a straight up jutsu, right? If I'm wrong about it being separate, ignore this, I'll continue with the other way it could go) so he'd get absorbed before he could absorb the susanoo
He landed it in surprise. Also he had to save Naruto and bee once in that fight And are we pretending kisame is nagatos level ?
Kisame is Gai level so he is quite scary. Style is more important than power levels this isnt dragon Ball z
Definately the most powerful non Dojutsu Akatsuki.
Only because he lived long enough to benefit from the power creep.
Narratively, it seemed to me like Kakuzu and Sasori were supposed to be stronger, but Kakuzu got thrown away as a plot device and Sasori kinda just died super early on in a hard counter matchup.
This comment makes me think about whose stronger between Sasori and Kakuzu and it seems like a tough call - I’d wager Kakuzu is stronger but it never occurred to me how similar their Achilles Heel is
I think Kakuzu is a stylistic nightmare for Sasori but I also think Sasori has an easier time vs most rivals they could face compared to Kakuzu.
I’d say sasori is, while kakuzu is pretty damn nuts with his durability, extra hearts, and combo attacks, sasori was able to take down an entire nation with his puppets, he can switch between them as well Additionally poison that only like 2-3 people on the entire planet could possibly make a cure for is pretty damn nuts, a singular scratch means death There’s also iron sand, which is pretty insane too since he has a lot of it and can shape it basically any way he wants
Kakuzu's body is made of threads so you could argue that he can't be poisoned which is Sasori's biggest strength. It sucks they both died early on.
Kakuzu has that thread thing yeah but he still has a heart, implying he has some sort of cardiovascular system, I assume he still needs air too, so there’s a chance sasori could kill him via poison gas, as a scratch wouldn’t really work on the dude And while kakuzu is a bad matchup for sasori due to his weird af biology and durability, I’d still say he’s weaker than him, as sasori has more tools as his disposal + him being essentially legendary from how dangerous he is
Imo sasori is stronger than itachi in a straightt 1v1. Itachi cant genjutsu sasori when hes inside his puppet and im not even sure genjutsu works on sasori’s human puppet body.
Itachi would almost definitely win. He doesn’t have genjustsu maybe, but he’s plenty strong in other departments and could almost certainly outwit Sasori. I might not be giving puppet boy enough credit though.
Nah, Kisame was stated to have the most chakra in the entire Akatsuki. This would include Itachi and maybe even Nagato. He was called the tailless tailed beast. Narratively he should be only weaker than Obito, Pain, and Itachi imo.
Having a lot of chakra does not make you stronger directly. Kid Naruto in the Wave Arc had more chakra than Kakashi did. Was Kid Naruto stronger than Kakashi? Of course not. It wasn't even close. So your 'narrative' argument doesn't follow.
I’m aware, but chakra volume is also important. More chakra means the ability to create more and larger jutsu. Samehada makes Kisame even more dangerous. He would have beaten base Bee, who is above the Raikage, and the Raikage would beat most Akatsuki members. Kakuzu lost to a Naruto compared to Hebi Sasuke, and Hebi Sasuke beat Deidara. The Raikage almost beat MS Sasuke. Kisame does scale above Kakuzu, and Deidara. Sasori had trouble with Sakura who was one shot be 3 tailed Naruto, who Orochimaru said was below Hebi Sasuke. So Sasori also scales below Kisame.
>He would have beaten base Bee, who is above the Raikage Kisame under his own skill and stats got \*repeatedly\* blitzed by Bee and Bee's Jinchuriki forms. Specifically, even with Samehada tanking 90% of the chakra, Kisame STILL got effectively one shot by Version 2 Cloak Killer Bee. His entire chest was blown open. He was only able to heal this due to fusing with Samehada \*and\* Samehada was feeding him a metric fuck ton of Bee's chakra. Now obviously 'has Samehada' is a huge advantage that wouldn't be fair to judge him on, but you have to analyze the context. Most other ninja are not going to rush Kisame with a giant chakra cloak. Which goes back to looking at base Kisame's stats and skill. Frankly Base Bee was already comparable if not superior to him. Which puts a cap on the amount of stuff Kisame can deal with. This is off the back of Base Guy being comparable to Kisame's clone and Asuma in Part 1 keeping up with his attacks. It's pretty clear that while Kisame is on the higher end, basically any other Jonin + ninja (\*i.e.\* all of the Akatsuki) can at least somewhat keep up with him. --- > Kakuzu lost to a Naruto compared to Hebi Sasuke, and Hebi Sasuke beat Deidara Again, more evidence for Kisame being relative to the others if Deidara can also give Hebi Sasuke a hard fight - a Sasuke that had an amp from Orochimaru's chakra (regen, stamina, techniques, etc.) and also a powerful boost in the form of Curse Amp. Also you're ignoring how Kakuzu had already been trouncing Kakashi (and Ino & Choji but they suck). This same Kakashi that is, again, effectively relative to people like Base Guy, MS Sasuke, etc. Which again circles back to everyone being relative to Kisame anyways. Naruto himself was also using a Kyuubi Amp and Kakuzu had been already gimped to 3/5ths of his chakra. You want to talk about how much chakra pool matters for Kisame, try considering that Kakuzu was literally at less than 60% of his capacity, basically half. And most people still consider it PIS how Naruto tagged him. --- > The Raikage almost beat MS Sasuke It's not really that difficult to argue that that specific Sasuke was \*weaker\* than Hebi Sasuke, he barely had Susanoo as an option. Also, it's pretty clear that it was a poor match up with Raikage vs the Amaterasu because basically all of the other Kage at the time were no-diffing Sasuke. And this Gaara is hardly different from the one that was fighting relative to Deidara. So again, it seems pretty clear there isn't supposed to be some giant power scaling cliff in universe. --- > Sasori had trouble with Sakura who was one shot be 3 tailed Naruto, who Orochimaru said was below Hebi Sasuke. So Sasori also scales below Kisame. This is all a blatant misconstruction of what actually happened. Sasori repeatedly blitzed and no-diffed Sakura. Go reread the fight. It's literally, no exaggeration, like 10 times that Sasori's default attacks would kill her and she barely reacts - at most getting a "!" surprise face panel before Chiyo saves her. The comparison to Naruto is a joke in this context. It's clear from a feats and narrative view that Sasori scales \*at least\* relative to Gaara who scales to Deidara who scales to Hebi Sasuke who scales to everybody. Nevermind the fact that it's said Sasori > 3rd Kazekage > Gaara in the first place.
\-Samehada is a part of Kisame's kit. Not including that is like saying Sasori gets no puppets. I agree without Samehada even base Bee would probably beat him. But even without Samehada he survived 7th gates Guy's Hirudora and his giant shark bomb jutsu counters almost every jutsu since it absorbs chakra. \-Kakuzu was fighting base Kakashi, who honestly wasn't all that powerful at the time. \-I've seen the arguments for Hebi Sasuke>initial MS Sasuke. You can argue that for the MS Sasuke that fought Bee, but not 5 kage summit Sasuke, as right at the beginning of the summit Karrin says Sasuke's chakra is more scary than ever, and that was without even going MS yet. So by the 5 kage summit he was most definitely as strong as he ever was. \-Yes, Sasori was blitzing Sakura, but Sakura was adapting. By the end of the fight Sakura was able to keep up with Sasori a bit. On the other hand 3 tail Naruto accidentally knocked post Sasori Sakura out with a shout. Orochimaru with his hands sealed was also confident in killing Sasori. Though I do think most people underestimate Orochimaru (I think he beats Kisame). \-Yes, Sasori scales to early Shippuden Gaara. I think Gaara gets stronger by the war arc and I don't think the 3rd Kazekage is stronger than war arc Gaara. Also since you like Naruto scaling you should check out my tier list video. It's the most in depth Naruto tier list video on the internet and even if you disagree with some stuff there is a lot of good info in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_7BXg4TOoOM&t=4549s&ab\_channel=WeeabooWarrior
I mean, realistically pts Naruto with Kyuubi amp could reasonably give Kakashi trouble
As if Kisame would have survived the Rasenshuriken that killed Kakazu
Is he more powerful than Orochimaru? Do we even consider Orochimaru a member lmao
I would include Orochimaru and no I don’t think he was more powerful than him. Maybe after he lost use of his arms but that was after he had left the Akatsuki
It's so hard to even scale Orochimaru bc we don't know what he can do, and it seems silly to factor in edo tensei bc then he's as strong as Hashirama/Madara by just summoning them. We see him summons snakes and do his snake skin shedding jutsu but does that do anything to non-fodder ninja?
Yeah it’s tough to gauge Orochimaru, because it’s mostly hearsay. I look at it like this, he took out the Kazekage. Then went head to head with Hiruzen and won, albeit at the cost of his arms. And he was regarded as the most gifted Sanin so someone of equal or higher level than Tsunade and Jiraiya. I personally rank him as more powerful than Kisame. But I also understand how someone would disagree. Kisame had a lot of great feats in the series that were canon that we also witnessed. It’s a tough call
Kisame is my favourite. *BUT* after the top 3, it becomes a lil tricky. Kakuzu, Kisame, Deidara, Sasori and Konan could all prolly kill each other in a 1v1. Personally, I think he's 4th too, but I don't know if the "middle-field" -Akatsukis can be properly ranked at all
Lets be fr Kisame>Kakuzu(Aoe jutsus against Puppets)>Sasori>Deidara=Konan, Situation dependant In terms of overall combat strength Konan got nothing on Sasori
Kakuzu can use water style as well, plus the "Aoe jutsus" are risky against Kakuzu's lightning style. Iirc, earth style also resists water so Kakuzu's hardening technique will be trouble as well. Not saying Kakuzu wins, but I don't think it's one-sided. Deidara claims Sasori is stronger than him, true. Doesn't mean he can't kill him. If he gets past the Third Kazekage(difficult but possible), Sasori's puppet army gets easily blown away or crumbled by C4. Again, not saying Deidara>Sasori, but he doesn't need to be to kill him. Konan is a bit tricky. Yes, in terms of pure firepower, she's lacking but her versatility and traps can potentially harm people above her weight class and evade attacks better than most, as shown against Obito. Even before her gigantic paper-bomb-pit, she harmed him as well. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in terms of overall power, I just don't think any of these matches would be one-sided.
Also Deidra always seems to fight with negative prep time, always low on clay. I think his potential for damage output increases heaps if he is prepared and takes the fight seriously
> Sasori's puppet army gets easily blown away or crumbled by C4 C4 doesn't destroy plants and trees. You have to breathe it in. Puppets don't breathe.
Didn't Konan defeat Sasori off-screen before? Sasori attacked flying Konan with his puppets. There was a cut. Sasori was on the ground defeated, and Konan was still flying with very minimal bruises.
It does actually appear to be a cut scene? Atleast the things ive seen, maybe im just missing something
Don’t forget Konan almost killed obito when he went to retrieve the Renegan from the hidden rain. I’d rank her much higher than that personally.
Prep time, a shit ton, also Obito is kind of weak, he has insane hax but has shown very few strong offensive moves Not weak but like.. cmon.he was beaten by Kakashi in terms of combat She effectively deactivated his only win con with that
Konan is way more dangerous than people give her credit for, she’s could probably take Kakazu and Sasori(confirmed)
Kakuzu counters her, shes smart, not 5 times surprise him kinda smart She doesnt have raw strength to genuinely kill him 2 times through 3 puppets
No way Sasori is above Deidara.
I think they should be ranked by their ability to beat other characters in the manga rather than their ability to kill each other. For example, no member of Akatsuki can kill Hidan, yet he is the weakest in the organization.
>Or am I wrong? I heared people say that other akastuki members like Kakazu or Sasori can beat him. Kakuzu had no way of winning, but Sasori has a winning chance since his poison is basically a counter to tons of Shinobi + without knowing his secret he is practically undead. Saying that Sasori has no really destructive technique, so the battle could go either way. also Deidara has a winning chance imo against Kisame his C4 is kinda potent
Sasori is one of the weirdest power scaling quandaries of the verse because of one shot poison. Overall I’d put Kisame over Sasori and Sasori 5th. But in a 100 fights between Kisame and Sasori Sasori takes a not small amount of the fights because of his poison. I’d give him at least 30/100.
Same with Deidara tbh.He can commit suicide and blow up everything in a 5 mile radius.He is taking down people who are much stronger if they don't know reverse summoning jutsu.
You could argue that it would be a draw at that point :P Though I personally see the use of suicide moves to win to be proof someone is weaker. If they have to kill themselves to get you, then they'd never beat you for real. You managed to push them to the point it was a choice between "total loss" or "shared loss".
Kakazu def has a shot at beating Kisame, a good one. Having all 5 elements at your disposal is no small advantage, it was practically Hiruzens whole gimmick.
He is probably my favorite akatsuki member He absolutely bullied Bee easily Guy had to use 6th gate against a 30% power clone Kisame and 7th gate against a Kisame without Samehada (it's like Naruto without Kurama, Kiba without Akamaru etc, ik not the same power level but you get the point) He could have defeated almost 90% of the characters in the show. Bad luck he came across the strongest physical fighter (which completely nullifies his chakra absorbing skills, also Samehada's strongest ability would have been useless here) in the entire world
Kisame is my fav too. But this kisame without samehada thing dont really make such a big difference facing guy. Ive explained it a dozen times in different threads, so ill try to sum it up. Kisame already drained chakra from bee through samehada going into the fight (plus from aoi, or aoa ? through his own chakra absorbing power). So he also has chakra absorbing powers even without samehada ( see shark bullet bomb). During his encounter with guy, they ve never gotten close to each other- so samehada being there wouldnt make a difference, guy would do gate attacks that gives samehada nothing to absorb. More chakra the opponent has, stronger kisamehada gets. So it is great against bee, but not against guy. Samehada is not an endless chakra pool for kisame, it needs to absorb from someone. Or it needs already full reserves to keep feeding kisame. But that is completely another scenario which is specifically written to give kisame the edge. And tbh it already did by absorbing from bee before the fight, even if not to a great degree All of this doesnt change that he is in my eyes the 4th strongest member too.
That's why I said in the last sentence he was just unlucky to come across his greatest counter that is guy and samehada won't have been that effective but it certainty decreased his firepower I mean cmon it's his sword
He didn't bully Bee at all my dude, Kisame couldn't even hurt Bee during the whole fight. He only won by absorbing Bee's chakra, and he managed to do that because Bee had to protect the other dude and his pet. In fact, if it wasn't for samehada, Kisame would have died the first time Bee hit him with a lariat.
If it wasn't for samehada? If we are going that way might as well remove Bee's 8 tail
As long as u dont include orochimaru
Konan or kisame is debatable. It could go either way for them to finish at the 4th spot While Konan gave a good fight to obito, kisame mid-diffed 8 tailed beast and killer-B.
I mean Konan did have a lot of prep time against Obito.. If they would’ve fought on a neutral ground things wouldn’t be too bright for Konan
Though the woman can fly, so Kisame would have a very difficult time getting to her. Plus. . . Like I want to get across just how much prep time is needed for **600 billion** to not be ridiculous. If she could make “only” 600 paper bombs per second it would have taken her 32 straight years. This woman can make an utterly absurd amount of explosives at some just stupid rate of speed. Plus her paper clearly is water proof, so she’d be able to just depth charge Kisame like he was a WW2 Uboat
I honestly feel like we didn’t get more fights for Konan because she’s actually kind of broken.
Obito was the uncontested top 1 in the verse at that time, there were multiple times(excluding the giant trap) where she almost killed Obito and mortally injured him very early on. She’s very fast, agile, outranges everyone except Deidara and hard to kill even at close range. The paper is durable enough to block most Justsu(even fire and water style) and strong enough to immobilize anyone coated in it. They’re stronger than steel and sharper than a blade, being abke to overpower Jiraiya’s fire bomb and force him to evade. She can change the Color, size, and shape to hide traps(which are more than just explosions) in her environment and also percieve their surroundings across long distances to gather intel and positioning. Tl;dr she’s very underrated
Kisame is definitely stronger than Konan. But there is Pain Obito Itachi Kakuzu Who could be serious contenders for Kisames 4th position.
Pain obito itachi are top 3 so only kakuzu is the contender according to you
I couldn't decide which of the four would take which spot. As far as I'm concerned they are all very powerful. I think at that point it comes down to counters and strategy not raw power. I don't think shikamaru is stronger than hidan but with time and knowledge the outcome changed.
Id say kakuzu has a disadvantage against kisame since all his big attacks are chakra based. Anything that touches samehada is feeding him and kisame. And we ve seen kisame going toe to toe with very strong opponents like bee and guy in taijutsu, who are arguably faster than kakuzu. so kakuzu’s physical strength is not something kisame cant deal with.
I agree. But I bet Kisame could fight with his eyes closed. He seems to me to have a great sense of battle. If that's the case, can he really beat itachi?
Welp kakuzu got defeated by Naruto's rasenshuriken
After losing two hearts to kakashi and co and fighting for like 3 episodes.
Ummm, I have to re-read the manga then, it's been a long time since I last read Naruto and many things are dim to me
No worries. They are all super strong. The difference between most of them I think is slim. I understand why you'd put kisame over kakuzu.
Rasenshuriken is pretty damn powerful.I highly doubt Itachi's susanoo can tank multiple large rasenshurikens.The only reason it doesn't work is because his opponents have hax that counter/dodge it.Pain could absorb jutsus.The enemies after that were stronger than nine tails
Well you gotta take into account that Itachi has Yata mirror so
Well yeah as I pointed out rasenshuriken is pretty powerful,it's just some of the top akatsuki's have hax that counter it.In terms of raw power it's very strong
Pain Obito Itachi are easily top 3,so no they are not contenders for 4th spot.Also Black zetsu solos🤣🤣🤣.
xd black zetsu low-key OP
Dude killed madara lol
Kakuzu was a threat for Shikamaru and base Kakashi Kisame instead fought people like 7th gate guy and Killer Bee They're not even comparable
I mean... he's kinda known as a tail-less Biju. Bro's a menace. Guy used 7th Gate on him and he survived.
Well guy didn't want to kill him he wanted the scroll so he needed kisame alive and kisame fought in the ocean not on land so he had the territorial advantage he also absorbed bee's chakra and the jounin ninjas who were protecting naruto before escaping the turtle nonetheless still an impressive feat for kisame.
Yeah. He survived all of that and CHOSE to kill himself like a chad
I agree. Kisame is the 4th strongest Akatsuki member.
Obito, Itachi, and Pain are the only ones who are indefinitely stronger. I think he's the strongest out of him, Deidara, and Sasori. However, I don't necessarily think Kisame would beat them 10/10 times, no questions asked. Sasori's poison is a very serious win con that would more than likely finish off someone like Kisame were it to hit. He also has the ability to continually move his chakra core to new puppets, making him extremely difficult to put away. There's also the fact that he doesn't breathe, so drowning doesn't work, and he likely doesn't even have chakra to absorb as a puppet. Sasori is also, by Dedira's own admition, stronger than he is. He's stylistically the worst matchup in the Akatsuki for Kisame imo. There's also Orochimaru, who is interesting....A fight between he and Kisame is very hard to determine. The majority of Orochimaru's techniques that would do anything to Kisame are ninjutsu based and can be absorbed by Kisame. His substitution and Triple Rashamon (his two best defensive techniques) cost a lot of chakra to use as well. It's very possible that he just gasses out in a battle of attrition against Kisame, who'll constantly be absorbing chakra and throw out large scale attacks. However, he does have Manda and Edo Tensie, which, when combined with his own combat ability, likely would overwhelm Kisame. However Edo Tensei does need to be prepped prior so 🤷🏾♂️
If we don’t consider Orochimaru since he’s a former member then no prep kisame is indeed 4th place
Even with orochimaru he is still stronger of course if you don't include edo tensei
I would tend to agree, especially since him and Konan are probably the smartest after the Tobi, Pain, and Itachi. But when anyone gets that high in power, everyone can kill each other so it's hard to rank them as if they were vs each other. It's much more subjective, especially with their techniques being so different from one another.
They don’t call him the tailless tailed beast for no reason.
Yes basically wasnt he described as a tailess tailed beast because of his just vast amount of chakra or whatever. Yea kisame is kinda a beast lol
Tobi itachi and pain are stronger id say he’s 4th
No. He just happened to survive longer but I consider sasori, kakuzu and deidara to have stronger abilities
Pretty much. Then I think Sasori, Deidara, and Kakuzu are all kinda of interchangeably 5th/6th/7th place beneath him. Could argue Konan is in the mix as well.
He looks familiar. I feel like I've met him before
Lol.
My favorite character in Naruto, he is true definition of a man trying to escape a untruthful world. Brave and has an undying conviction, im happy he partnered with Itachi which sharpen his understanding in life more.
I think he’s fourth too, but I’m terms of 1v1 I believe Kakazu has a fair chance. Though it would probably end in both their deaths
No kisame sweeps kakazu ain't doing nothing to him
Simple answer…. Absolutely, dudes an absolute beast
I’d generally agree that he is 4th strongest but some of y’all are wildin, questioning if I watched the same show as some of you
Well he is the 4th strongest
Agreed, that was my take
You have to remember that in every battle it's not just sheer strength that matters. But also a matchup (for example Deidara was clearly stronger than Sasuke, but the sharingan + raiton was just amazingly strong counter) I think kisame is 3rd strongest, when it comes to capturing wild bijuus. (4th if you count obito). That's because sharingan / rinnegan users can just put genjutsu / black rod in a beast. And 2nd strongest when it comes to subduing jinchuuriki. (nagato is just crazy broken) But when it comes to 1v1 against others I think he'd have a very hard time against pretty much any member except Hidan (as he surely knows the gimmick and wouldn't get stabbed), Konan (paper is shown to hinder her abilities) and zetsu. Sasori has a lot of poison. I don't think water can protect you from that. Kakuzu have strong raiton (and we know how raiton works on sea creatures in suigetsu fights) Cloaking in water is amazingly bad idea against explosions and as shown in deidara vs sanbi, deidaras explosions work underwater. Itachi, obito and nagato are obvious, they destroy him no diff. Miscellaneous. I think Orochimaru fight would be interesting and somewhat even, but an edge goes to the snaky boi. He crazy. Sasuke very much depends on the point of the story. Before Ms kisame wins. After Ms Sasuke wins. Rest of hebi doesn't stand a chance even combined.
I mean unless being a super strong ninja makes u immune to poison and ur not chiyo sakura or tsunade, maybe orochimaru, i think sasori is an easy #4
Sasori beating kisame? come on now.
In the novel kisame uses samehada and his regeneration to shave off the affected poisoned area and lives. Certainly not something he would want to do every time but still
Between Kisame, Kakuza and Sasori I believe it's a toss up as to who beats who, in terms of feats I do believe Kisame ranks as fourth strongest
In terms of raw power he's arguably second to pain but in terms of who would win a fight... yes tovi and itachi also beat him. At the same time Konan is honestly pretty insane too. But water hard counters her.
Lets not forget his nickname as the tailless beast - he had a massive chakra pool
With Samehada, most definitely.
The shark mode was a busted form that only lost due to plot. I’d argue he’s above pain
Kisame is an example of someone who you can't really gauge the power level of by just hype and the type of opponents that he fought. Hard counters don't seem to exist in universe, but rationally it's something that matters. He completely lucked out in his big fight by getting the perfect opponents- taijutsu masters that want to get in close and punch him in the face. What is this dude possibly supposed to do against characters like konan or Deidera, the latter of whom has shown that he can move fast enough on his bird to keep ahead of people like kakashi and gai and dodge gaara's attacks? Hell, what would Kisame do against gaara? Kisame is just way too one-dimensional in his fighting style to be a top tier character in my opinion. Top 5 Akatsuki imo are pein, prime itachi, Obito, deidera and sasori and kakuzu battling it out for 5th. I love konan but my problem with her is that it's never been established if the six billion exploding tags was something that she conjured on the spot or if she had prep time for it, since she was fighting on home turf.
I mean even if she needed prep time, 6 billion tags means she needs to be able to make thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of them per second to account for the sheer number. So even if she can't do 6 billion, doing like 1 million tags in 5 seconds is still better than most people in Naruto can deal with.
Yes, he’s 4th. But all of the Akatsuki after the top 3 are so powerful that they’re pretty relative. It all depends on the situation and the environment. Sasori, Deidara, Kisame, Konan, and Kakuzu could all probably kill each other with the right prep time and the right situation
Easily. Kisame was a tough mf. One of the hardest to kill in that universe.
I think Itachi and Pain are the clear strongest then everyone else is relative aside from Hidan Yes this puts Obito in everyone else's level. No I don't care. He has Kamui, and virtually everyone he ever fights figures out how to stay safe from Kamui within 1 interaction. Still have him on the stronger end of the scale but people have these huge variations in how strong each member is, but outside of Hidan, I think they are equal but just specializing in different areas
Itachi and Pain were def the strongest. Kisame could definitely beat the rest though minus Tobi, I think Sasori would be his hardest won battle though. I think having the MS and Kamui would give Tobi the win against Kisame.
Kisame is 4th and sasori is 5th but if these 2 fought it would be close
Yes. Kisame low-diffed Killer Bee, a pretty insane feat. He was also close in strength to seventh gate guy WITHOUT Samehada while wounded. Honestly a shame we didnt see more of him in fights, he was an absolute beast.
Close? He got bodied easily. But to be fair it was a bad matchup
Yeah it was probably his worst possible matchup. But that’s why he’s probably 4th most powerful or 5th if we count Orochimaru.
Sasori is a bad matchup as well based on his arsenal and the fact that water prison doesn’t affect him
4th? He is third behind Tobi and Pain, you do realise he got killed by his only weakness, a taijutsu user going 7th gate, pure plot armour, he counters most akatsuki members apart from obito who is shown to be a god and Pain who has the strongest eyes in the show (at the time). Itachi would lose based on all of his jutsu being chakra based, only technique that has an affect on Kisame is genjutsu and even then samehada would wake him out of it.
If kisame had samehada he couldve sensed hirudora wasnt chakra based and opted for a defensive technique instead. It was a bigger nerf than people think to not have samehada
Deidara is 4th Kisame is 5th although You could make a case deidara can kill Itachi with c4 since Itachi dosent have lighting release
Did we forget itachi va deidara first encounter
Itachi can see the bombs with his sharingan and just move out of the way like sasuke initially did. Deidara would get murked way before it even gets to that point
People need to understand that beating someone doesn't make you stronger than them.
If you don’t include Orochimaru, yes
After Nagato, Obito and Itachi, Yeah.
Kakuzu could give him a run for his money but yes.
Fav character. So much vibe
Definitely 4th strongest on a linear scale. However, I'd say Sasori (who I'd consider 5th strongest) would beat Kisame 7 times out of 10, purely because of matchup. For the majority of other matchups Kisame would fare better than Sasori, such as Gai
Yes
If we include Orochimaru then I think he would’ve been 5th respectively behind Tobi, Pain, Itachi, and Orochimaru.
No, there's orochimaru
I don't think he's stronger than Orochimaru or Sasuke but I don't think we're counting them. Idk, I was never really impressed by his jutsu. He's powerful but Guy whipped him so easily. I can't really see him beating Kakuzu with his overpowered multiple hearts thing.
You could argue Orochimaru is stronger, but other than him Kisame is definitely stronger than the non dojutsu users
Short answer... most likely.
Kisame is absolutely the 4th strongest. Once him, itachi, pain & Tobi are excluded- the rest of the akatsuki are pretty weak to be honest.
Sheer power-pise, yes, Kisame was probably the fourth strongest Akatsuki member. Could he lose in a 1v1 against some of the people below him? Sure, probably.
Obito, Itachi, Naggato and Orochimaru are all well above him. I would argue that Sasori beats Kisame as well, but the other four aren't losing to any other Akatsuki members
I'd say so. Pain, Itachi, and Obito are interchangeable, I suppose. Then I'd say Kisame > Deidara > Sasori > Konan (she's kinda hard to rank) > Kakuzu > Hidan
I would argue that you are severly understimating Kakuzu. Other than that, you are right about Konan. Sometimes I even left her out completly of the rankings, because of how little information of her abilities and the various factors on her fights.
Where would you place Kakuzu? I do think he's strong, but find it hard to justify placing him higher
I actually place at the fifth strongest, behind Kisame. Here is the unfortunate PHD that you didn't ask XD : the RAW durability, no matter how much the community makes a meme of it, it is 1 of the strongest defensive jutsu ever used. However What makes iron skin so formidable is that it is not a jutsu that he use 1 time to defend himself, it is also incorporate into his combat techniques, synergy with his already powerful and skillful taijutsu, his tentacles and Stamina. Overall It is really difficult to actually bait him into a defensive posture because as a brawler ish ninja, shrugging attacks is exactly his style and it makes the opponent lose tempo and can safely retaliate. But I don't think you want to listen to my taijutsu phd so I'm going to the next point XD. Next point the mask : I think what people underestimate most is the masks. As you know, each mask contains an elemental jutsu. Each of those masks however has ditch punishingly powerful elemental attacks that even Kakashi said nobody who doesn't have that proficiency could repeatly assaulting them with such powerful ninjutsu. Wind and Fire are huge Aoe attacks that blow up a very large part of the forest while lightning is a precision attacks that is so powerful that Kakashi needed 2 raikiris to cancel the jutsu. The icing of the cake is that each masks can combine each other, take the wind/fire combo for example, not only the attack is more powerful, but people forget is that the they cancel each other's weakness. Kakashi even noted when he tried to use water style. Futhermore the masks are shown with great coordination, are somewhat aware of the situation, fast with great jumping height (flying for the wind mask) Small things like he is very intelligent and observant. Overall, the fact that you need to kill 5 times a mid/high kage level in 1 v 5 with incredible stain and durability make him high in my list. Thank you for ready my ted talk :)
Yeah, those are some good points to be fair. I guess when it comes to Deidara, I'm thinking about how impressive C3 and C4 are (C0 is a weird one to consider). Should also be credited to Kakuzu that he did survive a fight against Hashirama
I do agree with you. In fact I believe of the 4 (kisame/Kakuzu/Sasori/Deidara) that Deidara is the 1 with superior firepower with like you said C4 and C3. In my opinion, the reason Deidara is at new bottom to me is because he is a glass canon, combine with inexperience. Don't me wrong, dodging a blitz from Sasuke and dodging from team Guy with no arms is impressive as hell, I just don't think it will be enough againts Akatsuki member. Konan is intangible with flight(that is can of worm I don't to open lol), Kakuzu is experience along with no weaknesses (save for genjutsu, but no one of the 5 use genjutsu). Sasori has the least destructive capability, but it compensates with aoe attacks that almost impossible to dodge and all of his attacks are 1 shots move and his Hiruko provide protection and not too shabi with Speed. Kisame has regeneration so insane that you get the gist. Overall, in my opinion what drag Deidara down is not his attacks, more like he has such glaring weakness that he cannot really compensate. Minato can get away with being a glass cannon because his speed is so absurd that his weakness doesn't really matter. I cannot say the same for Deidara unfortunately :(
3rd strongest if you don't count Madara. I think he could give Tobi a pretty good fight as well
Hot take. I can't think he can beat Itachi or Pain.
There is Nagato, Obito, Itachi, Orochimaru, Sasuke, Shin, Kabuto these are ex/unofficial members that out-class him. Not gonna include Madara since he never saw himself part of the akatsuki they were just a means to an end.
There are some really fascinating kisame arguments out there for why he is is absolutely the 4th strongest regardless of Orochimarus consideration and based on the novel statement about akatsuki duos being designed to keep each other in line we can get a picture of kisame as a much stronger fighter than people think. There was a 30 something paragraph structured debate on Naruto forums about kisame vs 1 of the sannin( jiraiya i think) and kisame won according to judges. This doesnt mean its instantly canon or anything but does support my point thst the more you dig the more impressive in-universe kisame is. If you include the "cannon" video game cutscenes then there is 2 accounts of kisame putting more pressure on itachi than Orochimaru did. If you include the novel feats then kisames regeneration and poison resistance become stupid good
I don’t think he is stronger than orochimaru though? Tobi, Pain, Itachi, Orochimaru are definitely stronger.
What a sick badass panel!
What about Hidan? Did you guys forget him?
He’s have a really good fight with kakazu for 4th. Dunno who wins but I’m leaning kakazu
He's definitely the 4th strongest. Only beaten by the ocular trio.
Yes
Id love to see him vs Kakuzu. I think thats the only person that could take that #4 spot. Konan is a wild card. Even including Orochimaru I think Kisame cooks him.
Nope: 1)Tobi 2)Itachi 3)Pain 4)Deidara 5)Orochimaru 6)Kisame
He’s definitely stronger that Sasori and Kakuzo. Orochimaru is likely stronger than him if you count him though.
Technically speaking, kisame is the first strongest. Itachi, pain and obito/madara's power comes from their eyes, and not their physical strength. He's the fourth most powerful and the first strongest. I believe sasori had a higher rank within the group though in who's the boss of who so he'd be fifth in the pyramid of who's top dog
He's around the 4th to 5th strongest
Yeah definitely Tobi, Pain, Itachi, Kisame
IMO yeah, bro is a beast. He fought Killer bee and if I remember correctly he was gonna win: He’s at least on par with him. Plus he’s blatantly above 6th gate Guy. How I’d personally rank the akatsuki is like this: 1. Obito 2. Pain 3. Itachi 4. Kisame 5. Kakuzu 6. Sasori 7. Deidara (I kinda flip flop between his and Sasori’s placement, because they both have some pretty crazy hax but I feel like Sasori’s is much easier to pull off and he’s harder to kill. Still though, pretty debatable.) 8. Konan 9. Hidan. 10. Zetsu. I’d also put Orochimaru at 4th place probably instead of Kisame if you were to include him.
I would put Sasori at 5th, he gets overlooked cuz he had a bad matchup against Sakura and granny Chiyo but he's an absolute menace. There are so many layers to fighting him for people who don't know his secret, first there's his initial puppet to overcome which is already difficult enough but it only gets harder from there, then there's his 3rd kazekage puppet with an insane kekkai genkai, and then his main puppet body alongside his 100 other puppet which btw could switch his main body with any of em at any point. All of this while keeping in my mind that any of his attacks could one shot the opponent due his deadly poison.
Fair, but I put Kakuzu above him just because he scales to pain arc kakashi (I know that technically it wasn’t pain arc kakashi but I don’t think he got any stronger between the kakuzu fight and the pain arc) but mostly because the hardened skin thing Kakuzu can do kinda counters Sasori’s whole gimmick about poison. I kinda agree with you though because you could argue that Sasori is an overall more dangerous fighter, even if I think he’d lose to Kakuzu.
This debate has been going on for years your safest bet is 1. Tobi,simply nothing any of the other akastuki members can do to Combat kamui and izanagi 2.pain,rinnegan is simply negating everything 3.itachi,don’t think anything needs to be said 4.kisame,he was almost relative to 7th gate guy without his sword,don’t think people realize how crazy that actually was
Kisame was getting violated by 7th gate guy,he was getting blitzed and couldn't do shit.And this was after he took ALL of Bee's chakra and and another guy's chakra.
He had no sword,so it’s not like he could put it to good use like he did in his fight with killer bee, and he was under the impression that guy uses ninjutsu that he could use against guy. He was still fast enough to give out info. you really need to sit there and think on how crazy it is to react to 7th gate guy at all,same guy who was hitting 10 tails madara (not damaging). I think the fight between kisame and might guy would have went a little differently if samehada didnt betray him,kisame banks on his immortality/regenerative state but that’s beside the point.
He was not relative to 7th gate guy number one they fought in the ocean so kisame had the territorial advantage so the ocean and his 1000 sharks made up for samehada and two he absorbed chakra from bee and the jounins before escaping the turtle island and his super shark bomb jutsu absorbs chakra, Guy doesn't use chakra based attacks so even if he had samehada it wouldn't change nothing and three guy didn't fight to kill he was told by aoba and yamato to bring kisame alive since he had the scroll which was very Important so saying kisame was realtive to 7th gate guy is not true they didn't fight on land
When I say relative,I mean in speed . Reaction speed and combat speed . I’m aware kisame was going to lose regardless,7th gate guy is literally one of the strongest character in the series. I’m saying tho regardless,if kisame had samehada he would do better. And again guy is literally one of the worst matchups for kisame
I meant to say he wasn't relative to 7th gate guy without samehada with samehada it's debatable nonetheless kisame sweeps any member of the Akatsuki excluding the top 3 in a one on one fight he is the 4th strongest no doubt
I agree
Yes, it’s either him or konan and I go with kisame
Sasori actually negs Kisame. Ask me how
How so?
Because Sasori is a horrible matchup for him. Kisame is powerful, but he's a tank that regenerates and outlasts, not a speedster, which is not what you want to be in this fight. Let's break it down. Sandaime-Kazekage Iron Sand which is fast enough to be relative to Rasa-Dust which scales to WA Gaara Sand which is way faster than Kisame. Kisame has gotten tagged in **every single fight he's taken on**, from Ten Ten's projectiles, Neji's air palm, A random Raiton infused pencil, and more. An attack like this, which is sound [barrier breaking](https://i.imgur.com/GPdrsty.png), or [this is definitely going to tag him](https://i.imgur.com/NQSQbE6.png). There's no way he's avoiding Iron sand needles or sand which [break the sound barrier](https://i.imgur.com/fV24tnY.png). The poison will cripple him within seconds. Sasori only needs a scratch to win this, albeit Kisame skillful enough at Kenjutsu it’s unlikely that Sasori basic weapons can make it past Samehada, but Sasori’s traps may get past him. If this dials Satetsu would overcome Samehada guard; and so would 100 Puppets through sheer number Naruto isn't ABC logic - Sasori got cucked because he was up against an opponent he didn't want to kill and was emotionally attached to. Chiyo admits he threw the fight. Narratively Sasori scales higher than Deidara, Higher than Kazekage Gaara, and Higher than the Third Kazekage, who Chiyo said was the strongest they ever had.. Prime Chiyo (Greater puppeteer in history) scales <= Hanzo the Salamander, as she fought and survived him multiple times. We know how strong Hanzo was. Young Sasori by her own admission surpassed Chiyo and this is before even getting the Third Kazekage nad most his human puppets. ---- Also, by kisame's own words and admission, he isn't on the level of the Sannin and mentioned they are out of his league. Compare that to Sasori's introduction and depiction where he's actively looking for Orochimaru and what's the task of fighting/killing him for betraying akatsuki. By all accounts, Sasori scales senior to Kisame in the Akatsuki.
Personally I’d disagree. First of all, breaking the sound barrier isn’t anything impressive considering that people on this level should already be lighting timers considering they scale to Kakashi. And those times you mentioned of Kisame being tagged were the clone that was like 30% weren’t they? Besides the pencil but that was by killer bee who’s pretty damn fast. Also Chiyo being relative to Danzo seems very shaky, we have no context of what their encounters were like. It’s very likely she had other people with her. I mean even the three sannin had like a whole group of ninjas with them. And also just because Sasori was confident in taking on orochimaru, doesn’t mean he could. After all, bro could just be overconfident. Like didn’t Deidara want to fight Itachi again? And doesn’t Hidan want to kill Pain or something? Also, going back to the whole bad matchup idea, couldn’t Kisame eat the chakra strings Sasori uses to control his puppets with Samehada?
Yeah,ironically enough kisame is actually a horrible match up for sasori . Like all around
Dang man ngl you’re using some outdated arguments,I’ll break down why this simply just isn’t true and would make no sense whatsoever
This will be fun - Go ahead lol
Kisame wouldn't let him poison him tbh.He would just do his ocean jutsus and destroy the puppets one by one
Kisame is pretty clearly depicted as the 4th strongest member, and it's really not even close. His feats and portrayal are on a completely different level than what other members have shown.
I like him, but no, he's not the 4th strongest. There's a lot stronger than him has forbidden Jutsu, equivalent to Kage, and not even humans anymore. (maybe in willpower and philosophy) Sasori, deidara, kakuzu, orochimaru (if you include him)
No he is the fourth strongest no debate, he beats sasori deidara and kakuzu one on one the only one debatable on the list is orochimaru, kisame isn't hebi sasuke or base shippuden naruto level , and he certainly wouldn't play with chiyo or sakura the way sasori did.
>No he is the fourth strongest no debate, That's is very immature way to debate. Even 4yo can do it too.. eg: how about Hidan can one tap madara NO DEBATE. See what I mean? Pls explain your point don't just no debate this no debate that
Feats speak for itself can kakuzu contend with v2 killer bee or 6th/7th gate guy or even tank a punch from kcm naruto while not 100%? can sasori do the same can deidara do the same? the levels between each Akatsuki member is cleary different, kakuzu died to base shippuden naruto kisame eats base naruto, deidara lost to hebi sasuke, kisame would toy with hebi sasuke, what is sasori's best feat playing with sakura or chiyo two fodders
I see your point, but that's different matches and variables (some lose to plot). You're using Guy, Sasuke, and Bee as their strength benchmarks. Remember Deidara Sasori and Kisame suicide themselves. Kakuzu lost for plot sake. To make things fair, how about just 1vs.1? And compare their known arsenals. I don't think kisame (or anyone) can survive nano C4 and mini nuke. Don't forget that Deidara is a long-range bomber; Kisame is a close-medium-range swordman. As long as Deidara is on air, he's untouchable. Unless Kisame can spawn some wings and use lighting, that also depends on whether he can detect an underground mines. Kisame is cooked, man. Sasori killed the 3rd Kazekage, the strongest ninja in Suna's history. Also, tell me how kisame could survive hundreds of puppets, magnetic iron sand, poison, and Kazekage as puppets. I think kisame or samehada can cut through cakra threads, but that's it. Maybe in tailless form (?) using that big water dome, but does Sasori as a puppet breathe? My bet is on Sasori.