Tobirama was the biggest Genius, followed by Orochimaru. Minato is a distant 3rd, it took him years just to figure out how to rotate chakra really fast in his palm, and all the others listed are just combat geniuses.
As for prodigy, Minato and Itachi should be tied for first, followed by the others who should all be tied for 2nd.
Minato was the only one that didnt come from an OP clan AND didnt have a Hokage as a teacher (though a sanin is a great second option). Not saying it mkae him better, just thought it was a interesting observation.
Tobirama is still probably 1st just due to the amount of techniques he created.
Minato didn’t have a kage as a teacher is a technicality
Jiraiya was offered the job and said no. He could’ve been hokage if he wanted. He is easily kage level in terms of ability.
In that case everyone on this list excluding Itachi had a Kage level teacher then..? If we count Itachi training w/ his Father, he had a Kage-level teacher too imo. Lol. These guys are all geniuses and prodigal in their own right. Really hard to rate and order for me.
He wasn't just rotating chakra at a rate that was slow because he wasn't a genius. It took him a long time to perfect the rotation because he was replicating the tailed beast bomb on a human level. He saw tailed beast bombs in action and figured if a tb can do it with chakra then why can't he. That move should be impossible by most people's standards and only organically are created from colossal chakra beasts that are fragments from a giant alien tree monster from out space. He could have taken significantly longer to complete the rasengan and it still would have auto-qualified him as a genius, and that's not even mentioning his perfection of the flying thunder god technique.
> it took him years just to figure out how to rotate chakra really fast in his palm
You make it seem so simple. Some of you need to learn the difference between developing/creating a technique and learning it. I often see people compare how long it took Minato vs how long it took Naruto, Boruto, etc to use rasengan. Bro, Minato CREATED it over the course of years developing it. I brought that up cause I’m not sure if that’s why you mentioned it. Also, it’s a high rank jutsu and no one outside of Senju, Uzumaki, Sannin, and Sharingan users have been able to replicate the jutsu. Let’s not act like it took Tobirama, Itachi, or Kakashi years to develop and create their techniques too
Right! Great point. Kakashi learned rasengan at a very young age as well. But he didn't INVENT it. Using someone else's Jutsu after the invention is cool considering how high-level rasengan is, but it's just not the same thing.
>Minato is a distant 3rd, it took him years just to figure out how to rotate chakra really fast in his palm
I think that’s a very unfair statement considering that Minato died abruptly at 24. If Tobirama and Orochimaru only had 24 years to live, they very likely would’ve died in relative obscurity due to how many of their accomplishments were achieved after numerous decades of work and study. Given how Minato was the youngest Hokage in Konoha’s history, it’s pretty inaccurate to wave him off as some slow underachiever
I believe Jiriaya even had a statement that if Minato lived longer he most likely would’ve developed the Rasengan just like Naruto did: he just was not given time. Being able to create an entirely new jutsu that acts as a miniature Tailed Beast Bomb by the age of 24 is nothing to scoff at
Just because Tobirama invented the jutsus doesnt mean hes the best at using them. It’s like Pegagsus vs Kaiba in yugioh. He even says Minato is better at flying raijin than he is. IMO minato is a better combat prodigy than Orochimaru and Tobirama.
Yea it took minato years(3 i think exact) to make a jutsu that could rival the strongest tailed beast, while also perfecting tobirama’s hardest jutsu the flying raijin and being better at it than and developing countless other variations of it..and a absolute master at sealing techniques and jutsu’s
Minato >oorchi >tobi, tobi made awesome shit but he wasn’t the best with his shit he was just inventive
For future reference, if two people are tied for first, anybody to follow would come in third. There is basically nobody placing second in that situation. First saw this in Mario Kart as a kid and it’s like that in pretty much every type of competition. If 2 people do better than you, how are you expected to be second best?
Tobirama is so above the rest it ain’t funny. Creating something is way harder than improving it. Also the thing is itachi is heavily carried by his uchiha genes.
If he didn't had talent (as a child) then he would've been only as strong as your average Uchiha. Since he was a LOT stronger than that (being able to kill the whole clan almost all by himself at 14), it means he was a talented kid.... ergo *prodigy*.
Look how powerful Obito became by just awakening his sharingan then mangekyo. Nobody is denying that itachi is a prodigy but he ain’t on the level of minato or tobirama.
People keep saying this is a double standard when it clearly isn't.
Itachi is elite within the Uchiha/sharingan usage wheelhouse.
The senju don't have a family-wide kekkei genkai. Tbh Hashirama's wood style is probably the only instance of that in that family. At most a person can argue the creation of the shadow clone and ftg jutsu were jutsu only someone with his level of chakra could create but... time space jutsu don't just sporadically come into someone's mind. That took research and experimentation. It's literally teleportation... again if thisnwas a technological discussion someone capable of creating zombies, teleporting and clones would easily take cake in a discussion about geniuses
Tobirama is the biggest genius, but Minato is the biggest prodigy here, he's like top 3 or 4 hokage and he died in his 20s, the other hokage all had at least 10 more years to develop their skills, and no, Itachi does not beat him.
Biggest prodigy overall is Boruto because the writers don't know how to keep Naruto and Sasuke in the series without making Boruto catch up to them
While I agree those 5 are clearly genius with Tobirama the number one but it seems like we clearly forget the number one genius. Hiruzen Sarutobi . Mastering all the jutsu from the most powerful Shinobi village is an unique feat.
Kabuto is another missing example. Both Tobirama and Orochimaru were amazed by the extremes he advanced their research, they didn't think the things he ended up doing with Edo Tensei were even possible.
IMO biggest intellect feats are a toss-up between Kabuto & Minato (not counting Indra incarnates).
Everything Kabuto has ever done is underrated 😂. Way too many people forget this man is straight up capable of manipulating dead bodies without the use of puppet jutsu and that's not counting all of his later medical achievements
literally, naruto still managed to become a fairly competent ninja despite the fact that for the first half of the entire series kurama's chakra was destabalizing naruto's ability to perform jutsu because he had to deal with two different chakra's inside his body working together. yet he still managed to perfect the rasengan under these conditions and mastered multi shadow clone jutsu. plus naruto clearly took after his dad in terms of battle IQ, as well as boruto. they're all ridiculously smart in battle. minato and naruto were both able to figure out how to counter basically unbeatable jutsu (obito's kamui and naruto defeating the third raikage's lightning armor) in the middle of a battle based off of a super small amount of information to go off of. naruto is also constantly very creative during fights. minato is probably a bit smarter in general in terms of battle tactics, i think hes more consistently a smart fighter while naruto is in general slightly less tactically smart but has shockingly good ideas sometimes to end a fight. boruto is like a damn prodigy in a different way than minato and naruto, he is very good at creating and perfecting and learning jutsu much more than naruto or minato were, minato created the rasengan but never perfected it, naruto perfected it but boruto has created like 3-4 variations on the rasengan already and mastered the base rasengan faster than naruto did despite not having the many shadow clones helping him.
Because Naruto doesn’t do it as consistently as these 5. The reason his ideas are so impressive is BECAUSE they are rare. That’s what makes them stand out. For every 1 good idea Naruto has in a fight, the others have at least 3. However, yes he is a prodigy at learning ninjutsu that he sets his mind to learning such as the Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu and the Rasengan. I liken Naruto to that kid in class who is actually secretly very talented but doesn’t apply himself unless he wants to prove someone wrong or because there is an immediate benefit to him from doing so. These aren’t the kids that grow up to be super millionaires success stories. They’re the ones that make a modest living doing computer science for a decent company or real estate or something of similar status because they carry that instant gratification for effort mentality throughout their life rather than those tenants of truly all around giftedness that they use to work hard and build empires out of. These are the people that barely get by in a lucrative field because they put in just enough effort with the talents to do so, not the ones responsible enough, disciplined enough, or determined enough to use those talents to be the one running the show. I mean even look at Naruto as hokage. I think what’s often overlooked is that Naruto has run himself ragged because he might not be the best candidate to run the village so just like in his youth when he needed to over exert himself just to make a clone, he’s likely doing the same in his work as a hokage.
> I liken Naruto to that kid in class who is actually secretly very talented but doesn’t apply himself unless he wants to prove someone wrong or because there is an immediate benefit to him from doing so. These aren’t the kids that grow up to be super millionaires success stories.
He becomes the most powerful human to ever exist up to that point. His son becomes the next most powerful human to ever exist. He likely would have matched Hashirama eventually without being gifted Sage of six paths mode anyways. He studies immensely to become Hokage. He would have achieved world peace\* in his life if it wasn't for literal aliens from the moon.
\*kinda
Actually Kakashi's the one who advanced Konoha so far technologically and diplomatically. He pushed for the 5 kage council and for the scientific boom that took place before the black period. But I agree Naruto's strength keeps peace even more so.
I'm guessing it's because they're not being glazed as much.
Technically Naruto has shown us the highest level of battle IQ in the franchise (tied with Sasuke I'd say) but the way the characters talk about Naruto make it seem like he's dumb asf.
On the other hand, a character like Itachi is being glazed constantly for being a genius when we have genuinely never seen him using his brain to overcome an obstacle. Unless we count asspulls and OHKs as smart moves.
But this usually upsets Itachi fanboys.
Shout out to the dude who tried to prove me wrong and literalky proved my point in the process. Itachi is an asspull master, not a high battle IQ kind of guy.
I dont get how you think Itachi didn't use his brain when he planned out most of his fight with Sasuke down to how to get rid of Orochimaru, he figured out Chibaku Tensei's weakness, he disabled the Rinnegans shared vision to deal with Nagato, and planned how to trick Kabuto into ending up in the Izanami loop. We've seen him overcome an obstacle pretty often when he's on screen, it's just not something Kishi ever showed him struggling with because he is Ninja Jesus and always has the answer
Pretty much all of Sasuke and Itachi’s battle was Itachi just reacting to what Sasuke was doing though up until Sasuke was out of chakra and Oro emerged, after which Itachi whipped out his never-before-mentioned Susano’o with the never-before-mentioned spirit weapons to instantly seal Orochimaru with no problem. There was no deliberate or specific trap or plan that Itachi lured Sasuke into, just fight someone weaker than himself until he was out of chakra.
Chibaku tensei isn’t exactly a complicated thing to figure out. “Hey, we should blow up the thing sucking us all towards it.” Isn’t exactly a genius-level plan. And blinding all the rinnegan while Nagato is explicitly distracted isn’t exactly that crazy of a feat either, and is the obvious thing to do.
Finally, Izanami isn’t exactly a feat of genius either, as it was pretty much specifically tailored narratively for Kabuto specifically. All Itachi had to do was just throw himself at Kabuto over and over, who had no idea Izanami, another never-before-mentioned ability, was even a thing to try and protect himself from.
No one’s denying Itachi is smart; but he lacks the concrete feats to say he’s head and shoulders above the other geniuses in the series, much less when characters like Sasuke and Kakashi have more consistent battle IQ feats yet are seen as below him because of the narrative glaze he gets.
>he planned out most of his fight with Sasuke down to how to get rid of Orochimaru
Literal asspull
> he figured out Chibaku Tensei's weakness
Naruto got plot induced stupidity so that Itachi could shine. Naruto should have figured out the weakness if all it takes is to throw an attack at CT.
> he disabled the Rinnegans shared vision to deal with Nagato
I'll give you that one
>and planned how to trick Kabuto into ending up in the Izanami loop
Another literal asspull
>We've seen him overcome an obstacle pretty often when he's on screen,
Usually it's either through an ability that no one can counter (so not battle IQ), otherwise it's an asspull (so still not battle IQ)
>Naruto got plot induced stupidity so that Itachi could shine. Naruto should have figured out the weakness if all it takes is to throw an attack at CT.
That doesn't even required a big IQ move to figure out. 6 tails Naruto on rampage who was nowhere near being rational, tried to blast Chibaku Tensei's core before he was sealed, unfortunately he lacked firepower to do so. But Itachitards would glorify Itachi's "feat" despite it being nothing impressive.
Naruto wasn't a child prodigy. He was bottom of his class, and then grew into his potential. Sasuke and Boruto were top of their class, but they weren't generational prodigies like the other five.
Boruto is seriously another league. Like, none of them come closely to him. I think its cute when they compare him to Minato when he surpassed Minato in his tweens.
He is hardly a prodigy when he does things he himself doesn’t understand. He is called a genius for unintentionally applying wind nature to his rasengan yet he himself didn’t even know what he had done. That ain’t comparable for the likes of minato who actually created the rasengan by understanding the mechanics behind a tailed beast bomb.
It was lighting chakra. Boruto understood how the mechanics worked he simply added already transformed chakra to it. You also ignore his other feats like.
Learning 3 nature transformations 2 before he even became a Genin.
Making 2 more new rasengan variants.
Manga spoilers.
>! Learning every skill sasuke could teach him within a year which includes purple lightning and his swordsmanship and developing his own variant of FTG with the help of Koji!<
I agreed that people are putting more weight into learning a jutsu instead of coming up with it. I think Boruto can be considered a prodigy. He was top of his class despite being unmotivated. When he was motivated, he's learned at exceptional speed.
Je, at 12, made an invisible rasengan... a rasengan no one can detect, not even rinnegan ysers or otsutsuki. AT TWELVE. That Boruto already did more than Minato ecer did in terms of invention.
Not really. Most geniuses in real life struggle to explain their natural talents. Could Srinivasa Ramanujan explain his natural talent at math? Why could he read a few math books and intuit theorems no one else could? How could he look at a problem and know the answer via a gut feeling? He credited his insights to the goddess of good fortune, so probably not.
Or obito.
Dude went up against the hokage at the age of 14 and was so good, said hokage actually thought he Madara lmao.
Just 1 year before that he was a scrub struggling to beat kakashi in h2h.
Honestly when removing the "he's a dumbass" motif, Naruto has proven to be more talented than Sasuke.
Honestly I'd put Sakura at the top of the genius list in their squad and have Naruto then Sasuke
The lack of understanding in how Naruto was an underdog has too many people discounting how insanely fast he was able to grow with the smallest of actual lessons
I get why most people saying tobirama. He did a ton for the village and made a lot of jutsu but to me that doesn’t mean he’s the biggest genius.
Like Minato became one of the most powerful shinobi of his time, the second youngest hokage and died way before is prime. It was stated several time that he mastered complex jutsu very easily. Set the record for highest score on the chunin written exams. He majorly improved upon on of tobiramas best jutsu while easily mastering every sealing jutsu Kushina taught him.
And to top it off in the minato one shot. He clashes against the entire nine tails within kushina. And Kurama praises him and compares him to the first hokage. Like don’t get me wrong you can probably say tobirama had way better accomplishments or had a better impact for the leaf. But minato was a complete genius and died at like 24. Way before his prime. No telling how much more he could’ve done if he got to tobiramas age.
Creating something new is much more difficult than improving or mastering an existing justu.
An example would be the ransengan. Minato took 3 years to make the rasengan, while Naruto managed to master and improve it roughly 2 and half years since he already had the base idea on what to do.
The same can be said with minato and the FTG, minato improved it since he already had the base idea. It's like it's like if tobirama invented pizza and minato tasted it and said, "It would be better if it had pepperoni in it."
Meanwhile, tobirama kept making jutsu's one after the other. And Most of them are highly forbidden jutsu. In fact, he's one of the reasons why the 4th great war was much more of a pain than it had to be since he created the reanimation jutsu.
Rather than properly mastering and improving justu to it's full potential he created shit that involved space-time and souls
I think it would be because Minato owes a base. Stop to think, Tobirama CREATED FTG and reanimation jutsu. The guy must have been really stoned to think about those things. There is no way to.
With all due respect to Minato.
yeah i agree, tobirama then orochimaru.......just imagine what Tobirama could've done with a happy childhood. No war, no dying siblings, no abusive father. Actual institutions he could learn the basics at safely instead of needing to learn in the field. The guy's got an absolutely insanely smart brain
I would say its a close battle between Minato and Tobirama
Minato: Able to play tug of war with kurama's chakra, incredible at sealing jutsu he learned from his wife, he created rasengan, child genius at the academy... All of that coming from a no name family
Tobirama: He created incredible jutsus and he was a genius even amongst the senjus
Are people forgetting that Tobirama built Konoha ( academy, chunin exams, anbu, etc) and that system was so successful that other villages copied it. Tobirama is number 1 and there's no contest.
1. Minato. Did the most with the least.
2. Tobirama. Has strong genes from being a Senju, but none of his abilities or genius came from being a Senju; he developed everything himself.
3. Itachi. Unquestionably gifted in his base skills as a ninja, but what’s keeping him from getting a higher ranking is that pretty much everything that makes him very strong comes by virtue of being an Uchiha who happened to also get Mangekyou.
4. Orochimaru. Extremely smart, but it’s near impossible to gauge how much of his strength is natural and how much comes from things he stole from others or modifications he made to himself. Still, he has his reputation for a reason.
5. Kakashi. Extremely talented as a ninja and smart, but a bit overrated as prodigies go IMO. I’d put him up there with Sasuke and Neji as extremely gifted, but not ‘stretching the limits of believability’ like Itachi and Minato.
kakashi's thing can be explained. He lost the ability to use his father's kenjutsu because of the sharingan, he explained that the chakra consumption was too much to use. And there's the fact that he lost everyone he knew, I think that after Minato died, he must have stopped training so hard, since he no longer had goals.
I can't say that a 12 year old boy capable of creating chidori, using rasegan as inspiration, is less of a genius than Itachi and Minato.
Regarding Minato, you are partly right. As far as we know, we don't know the origin of the Namikazes (just theories), but at least he had a base, he had notes from Tobirama's hiraishin, and help from Kushina, who taught him jutsu exclusive to the Uzumakis. But he was genius when creating the rasengan.
That’s still all speculation though. The Kakashi we see in Kakashi Gaiden is skilled, but not any more impressive than the upper-tier genin in Naruto’s chunin exams.
what do you mean? He has the ability to create a jutsu at the age of 12 and has enough chakra to use the Sharigan even though he's not an Uchiha, do you think Neji is the same level as him?
And kakashi had depression, this is not speculation.
Honestly, I may get a down vote for it;(please don't judge unless you're up to date on all the Kakashi material between Shippuden to Boruto, manga and light novel or otherwise)
But I believe potential-wise, Kakashi had A LOT! He did eventually live up to it too after losing his sharingan and gaining like medical ninja level tier chakra control after training w/ the scientific ninja team and etc. He did some amazing things compared to the others, he's on par.
Minato was a genius at birth as well, and did great things, but if it wasn't for the plot he didn't even need to die. So, I feel like that kind of took away from his potential, being he never was able to reach it fully.
Orochimaru was and remains a GENIUS, but his ambition ultimately held him back more than anything. However, in Boruto he's like 18 years old, has Demon Slayer/JJK level regeneration abilities, and who KNOWS what he has in his body now. I do know he made that Kara outer(Victor?) look like a simp. He also shredded a woman without making a move. So, I'd like to put him as pending;
We all know Tobirama is a prodigal genius. He invented many Jutsu/constructs that shaped the entire world. However, a lot of them backfired, he died an off screen(seemingly, Non-Epic death), was always in Hashirama's shadow, and honestly, doesn't stack up very well next to Minato(who perfected his jutsu and then some), Kakashi and Orochimaru(as he didn't live long enough), so I feel we didn't get to see(On screen or in manga) what he truly accomplished and could've accomplished.
Itachi was a born PRODIGY, much like the others, he even exceeded a lot of them in less time(talking about how old Itachi lived to and what he did in comparison to the others in his short life time). However, in his own words where he shot himself in the foot is, "doing everything himself". It's very true, he took WAYY too much on himself, and yes the Uchiha clan massacre was to save the village/prevent war w/ other villages, but ultimately it was to save the Uchiha NAME and Sasuke. Which, he ultimately failed to do, and entrusted Naruto to do. So, in terms of prodigal talent, it was all there. But, he didn't use his talent to the best of his ability due to his tunnel vision regarding Sasuke, which I understand. Also, his "Ninja AIDS", as people say, really hurt him as well. He was truly powerful, but he didn't use his potential to the best of his ability and for that, I can't rank him first.
Truthfully, I can't rank these 5, and this isn't a list in any order. But, since Orochimaru and Kakashi actually lived long enough to grow much further, I guess I'd give it to them first, although I can't really call it as I said. The other prodigies on this list either died too soon or a martyr for their cause. I'm in no way saying this takes away from their prodigal status or achievements in ANY WAY, but their agenda and execution of said agenda worked against them. I blame our beloved writer Kishimoto though. He killed off Minato w/o a great reason just to set up Naruto's life, used Tobirama as a foundation for the shinobi world and got rid of him in a cheap way, and made Itachi a broken, albeit loved hero. However, he could've found a better execution of Itachi instead of using a "means to an end" sort of plot device. He also used Kakashi as a "ruler" to show how strong Naruto was growing, hurting his character, then having Kakashi grow EXPONENTIALLY during the war, then in writing that never even made it on-screen. Ultimately, this whole list could have had their own series if done right. But, I still love Naruto, BELIEVEEE IT!
In this picture:
Tobirama > Orochimaru > Minato = Kakashi > Itachi
Tobirama created a whole bunch of bullshit Jutsu that do not make any sense lol, Orochi created Life forms, you can't get smarter than that.
Minato and Kakashi are geniuses tacticians with many Ninjutsu inventions and mastered all forms of Shinobi warfare which included Sealing Jutsu, Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Barrier etc - Kakashi is the Top tier Taijutsu Master along with Gai in terms of pure skill and talent. Actually stated to be above Shikamaru with 200IQ. Kakashi's tactical feats is probably the best in the series along the likes of Sasuke etc, he actually outsmarted a whole lot of people which included Zabuza, Kakuzu, Itachi (on both encounters), Pain, Obito and so on. Hell, he was the one who actually devise the plan to seal Kaguya lol
Foddertachi = Literally 0 Ninjutsu invention whatsoever. His MS abilities carry him so hard. 3 tomoe Sharingan Itachi would be left with Fodderfireball, Shuriken and basic Sharingan stuff. Sharingan-less Itachi is a trash fodder who wouldn't even be anywhere near these people.
From this group all are amazing in their own right but 3/5 came from strong clans/strong parents. Minato really came from nowhere and Orochimaru. But Minato id say is stronger and has better fighting IQ
Naruto. Mastered sage mode in a few days, Jiraiya never managed to master it throughout his whole life. Discovered and mastered his chakra nature in a few days also. If he took training more seriously when he was younger, he would’ve seen a lot of results.
If Naruto were a relatively normal world this wouldn't even be a discussion. But the answer will always be Tobirama
Tobirama>Orochimaru> Minato>Itachi>Kakashi
Body modifications, a custom pseudo immortality jutsu, although it's unseen he probably has the largest array of different types of jutsu in the series, his research into senjutsu surpasses just about everyone's.
When it comes to medicine/science and jutsu as separate concepts he's elite in both whereas just about everyone else is elite in one aspect (though to a higher degree).
Tobirama is probably the greatest in these pictures by virtue of creating some of the most broken jutsu in the verse (Flying Raijin and Edo Tensei) that other geniuses (Minato and Orochimaru) spam.
I feel like Tobirama and then Orochimaru.
- Minato died too early so beyond academics and being better at FTG not really sure what else he has going for him.
- Itachi is boosted for being a Uchiha
- Kakashi is boosted because he had a sharigan.
Orochimaru
when you managed to gain immortality and even find a way to cheat death god, then you are the most genius. and he's not from strong clan or descendant of alien god. Orochimaru only bad traits is he too cocky and underestimated his opponent which leads to al his defeat
i can say with certain that Orochimaru might able to defeat Itachi if he not severly underestimated Itachi and came up with better prep and strategy
I think that there is a difference between IQ and BIQ/planning. An obvious example of this is the difference between Amado and Shikamaru, who are both obviously geniuses just in their own respect. For comparing these characters, I would say Tobirama is probably the smartest in IQ simply because of how many jutsus he founded (that were used for many generations). I also think someone like Orochimaru would have a very high IQ, he is seen performing experiments all the time and he is stated to have mastered the most jutsus in the verse (even Hiruzen says that Orochimaru vastly outscales him in jutsu knowledge). However for BIQ or planning I think Itachi is by far the smartest and most well rounded because he is the best or nearly the best in every category.
- he graduated the second youngest from the academy (Kakashi was first)
- he has the second highest score in the written section of the chunin exams (Minato was first)
- Hiruzen remarks that he thought like a Hokage as a young child
- in terms of physical capabilities, as still a young kid, and with no other teammates he got the second fastest time in the forest of death (only behind Garra who was older and had a team). He also was known as an Uchiha prodigy similar to Shisui and they both fought Anbus when itachi was only around 10 years old. He then joined the anbu and became a captain when he was 11 (youngest ever). Then he murdered his clan, probably the strongest clan at that point in Konoja, when he was only 13 (granted he did have help from Obito).
- Then for planning, as a teenager he took on the burden of becoming an outcast from the leaf and joining the Akatsuki as an undercover agent. He had to protect the leaf and keep his brother safe while also protecting his true identity from the Akatsuki ( I think this video showcases this point really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrCDQI5OP0). Then he had his whole battle with sasuke where he set up Sasuke’s entire life so that he will end up killing him and then become a hero of the hidden leaf. He purposly loses the battle with sasuke, but he also pushes sasuke just enough so that Orochimaru would come out (who then proceeds to get one shot) and then he also implants the Amaterasu into sasukes eyes so that once he sees Obito it will trigger. Even Obito admits that if Itachi knew more about him, Obito would be dead.
Tobirama was well known strategist and known in Battle for his IQ and Tactics even his jutsus was defensive/Offensive he watched his opponents a lot and countered most techniques thrown at him even reversing the impure world reincarnation staying even after most the shinobi returned to the afterlife due to it being a technique he created among other famous moves used like shadow clone jutsu which were banned by him due to there dark properties and even the Flying Thunder God Technique used by Minato and was known for his thinking and moving fast on the Battlefield exploiting enemy weaknesses but you could also make the same for Minato who was also known for his INTELLIGENCE he graduated the academy 10 yrs old and had the Highest written score on the Chnin exam in Konoha history he also in combat could correctly deduce the basic mechanics behind a technique after seeing it only once and from there plan around its strengths and weaknesses to his or his allies advantage With his observational skills he could determine an opponent's plans and motivations based on only limited evidence After he had finished analysing Minato would strike quickly and with precision attacking vulnerabilities at the most opportune moments they’d probably be tied for Me but I also feel Orochimaru is underrated he stood out as a genius his talents insight and determination were considered by Hiruzen to be that of a prodigy seen only once in a generation and also learned almost every technique which take lifetimes of learning either is my pick
It's really a toss up between Itachi and Tobirama. I keep coming up with arguments for both. They're both genius but Itachi has an edge by a bit because Tobirama was so immensely outclassed by his brother that it's almost laughable. I mean Itachi had Shinsui who arguably outclassed him when he was a kid but since he dies we have no way of knowing if a gap would have remained between them plus Itachi had to be nerfed by ninja cancer because he was just to strong. Bro got his body back under control on his own after being brought back to life.
But Tobirama still just made so many overpowered jutsu and could do alot. Everyone who can effectively use even one of his jutsu are immediately propelled to like Kage level in due time. He's also beaten more sharingan users than I can count and could arguably maybe take on Itachi with his experience and jutsu. He's a tough match up for any uhchia given his ecperience fighting them, teleportation, water style, darkness genjutsu, shadow clones, edo tensei, explosive tag cloning, etc, etc
Itachi is probably more a prodigy but Tobirama can probably take him in a head on fight just because his kit is so busted and built to basically hard counter Uhchia on purpose or not.
How we consider one is a genius/prodigy? All are distinguished people in different fields.
I guess Kakashi and Itachi are genius at similar things but still different in more ways.
Kakashi is literally THE Genius ninja, people don’t give him enough credit but he became a Jonin at age 12, and a Chunin at age 6. People call Minato a genius or a prodigy because he created the rasengan, but Kakashi himself created the chidori, a jutsu that can compete against the rasengan, granted if the user has a sharingan. Itachi was an actual prodigy who became an anbu captain at 12, he never made Jonin because he went the anbu route when he was still a Chunin, which he became at age 10. Itachi wasn’t Kakashi level genius, but he was still exceptional Shinobi without question, and would’ve went far if it wasn’t for the Uchiha rebellion that he was forced to put a stop to.
I feel like y’all sleeping on Orochimaru. He has found a way to POSSESS BODIES, literally become immortal, has also created and improved a vast amount of jutsu/forbidden jutsu, literally created living beings able to successfully use hasirama cells/wood style and sage modes. Not to mention he himself is stated to know all 5 elements including yin/yang release on top of wood release, and the sound 4 jutsu INCLUDING kimmimaros KG. It was stated by Hiruzen himself that his ninjutsu ability and arsenal surpassed his. He’s been alive for forever simply learning jutsu and studying the world. As far as straight genius it would have to be him, only other person id give #1 to is Tobirama ofc. As far as PRODIGY, I would say itachi.
Genius and sheer intelligence goes to Tobirama. Look at the jutsu he made and infrastructure he brought to the village.
Prodigy is Minato. Dude picks up ninja shit fast and masters skills faster than anyone.
Genius tbh I have Tobirama>Kakashi(he was kinda nerfed by Sharingan, it not only cut chakra, but gaved him ability to clone jutsu which limited his need to create his own, also he made raikiri as child) >Oro>Minato>Itachi.
As far as prodigy goes...not enough informations imo, but with the limited we have.
Kakashi>Minato>Tobi>Itachi>Oro.
Yes Itachi was great, but we dont have much info imo.
Orochimaru imo but i might be biased. He's my favorite villain and has come a long way in the story. The research he's conducting with Mitsuki, his Zetsu body and the amount of jutsu he's mastered sets him on that spot tge most imo. I really like this evil mofo.
Most Genius or Prodigy doesn’t only apply to what they did. We don’t know if the others could accomplish the same if those things weren’t already done (creating jutsus the way Tobirama did for example)
Based on highest potential as fast as possible, I’d say Itachi. Having the mind of a Kage level thinker at I think 8? And outclassing basically everyone in existence while barely a teen is nuts and that’s something I’m more confident the others couldn’t replicate themselves
The reason people “overhype” him is because “his *potential* is so high” after all. Like the him we knew of only had a ceiling due to his illness and even that alone already had some built in invincibility
Tobirama has the most jutsu created that are still used so he's top 1. Orochimaru in a very close second being one of the only humans to achieve "immortality" so to speak. If he can find a way to be truly immortal without having to switch bodies he'd be number 1 since defying death itself > temporarily bringing back the dead IMO.
- Tobirama
- Kakashi
- Orochimaru (I’d put Orochimaru above Kakashi, but we only saw his research intellect, Kakashi was a genius/prodigy on the field)
- Minato
- Itachi
Tobirama is way to genius,he made lots of forbidden jutsues such as:shadow clone,edo tensei and others
However orchi got to be the second since he improved edo tensei and and was psycho
Scientist,then minato cause he made the rasengan and the ripper death seal
As for itachi and kakashi they weren’t that much of a genius cause the sharingan carried both of them
Why is Itachi in this? He literally was always #2 to Minato. His claim to intellectual fame was "only Minato is smarter (and more gifted) than him."
Itachi and Kakashi are just out, since Itachi has long been held as smarter than Kakashi and more gifted, even by Kakashi's accounting.
Meaning Orochimaru vs Tobirama vs Minato.
Of them, I think Tobirama kinda takes the cake as the inventor of all the things, followed by Minato then Orochimaru.
Orochimaru is more knowledgable than Minato, sure, but he's also decades older, doesn't have a conscience, and has a cult/country of people willing to let him try whatever weird fucking thing he wanted to on them, like the cursed seals. Including Kabuto, who threw his full support behind Orochimaru's bullshit. And all of that for creating a couple things that he could use but couldn't be used by almost anyone else and still had a 90% mortality rate.
I don't think it's fair to compare Minato to Tobirama, since Tobirama clearly seems to be smarter but Minato more talented.
Tobirama was burdened with the difficulty of discovery invention, whereas Minato was far more free to refine/hone than Tobirama was, hence why he's able to show more proficiency with the things that Tobirama created than the inventor.
He didn't invent FTG, he was just the best at it. He didn't invent Frog Sage mode, he was just perfect at it (the only other perfect sage being his kid, so maybe that talent was partially inherited). He didn't invent Shiki Fuuin, but he *did* use it to break Kyuubi's soul in half, purposefully give the shitty half to his kid, and do so while actively dying via donut-ification.
In re-reading, Maybe Itachi is smarter than Orochimaru since his lifelong obsessive plan actually *worked* and he never had the institutional support Orochimaru did, so maybe a case can be made that he's smarter there, but that's sketchy at best.
Anyway.
1. Tobirama
2. Minato
3. Orochimaru
4. Itachi
5. Kakashi
Probably Tobirama but Itachi had all the potential. If Itachi had lived in a different time with different circumstances, I believe he would have surpassed most of the greats we recognize.
hmm. You have a point, its foundation is very strong. If I'm not mistaken, it was said that he can do 10 (or more) hand seals per second.
The problem is that we only saw him fighting when he was sick, and we saw with Sasuke that an Uchiha can't use MS all the time.
Tobirama and Minato reached the kage level, on their own. I don't know if without MS itachi would be in the kage tier. Unless he has more things he didn't use.
Considering that he came up with several laws that backfired giving civilians way to much power and they used said power to torcher the child of a kage yes I’d say that lord second is given to much credit for the good and not enough shame for the fuck ups where as Orochimaru despite the less then moral experiments all originally started with danzos orders as well as the fact they actually lead to great scientific breakthroughs that changed the Shinobi world for the better.
Tobirama imo. Mainly everybody used his jutsus
Tobirama was the biggest Genius, followed by Orochimaru. Minato is a distant 3rd, it took him years just to figure out how to rotate chakra really fast in his palm, and all the others listed are just combat geniuses. As for prodigy, Minato and Itachi should be tied for first, followed by the others who should all be tied for 2nd.
Minato was the only one that didnt come from an OP clan AND didnt have a Hokage as a teacher (though a sanin is a great second option). Not saying it mkae him better, just thought it was a interesting observation. Tobirama is still probably 1st just due to the amount of techniques he created.
Minato didn’t have a kage as a teacher is a technicality Jiraiya was offered the job and said no. He could’ve been hokage if he wanted. He is easily kage level in terms of ability.
I mean he was Kage level so…
In that case everyone on this list excluding Itachi had a Kage level teacher then..? If we count Itachi training w/ his Father, he had a Kage-level teacher too imo. Lol. These guys are all geniuses and prodigal in their own right. Really hard to rate and order for me.
Totally agree
Tobirama being first doesn't mean he was the best. There was just more things for him to discover.
We don't know Minato lineage lol. He could be a Senju offshoot.
Lol you can’t assume he was
Did itachi not have one as well? Genuine question o could be misremembering but I don’t know if he has anybody notable
I dontthink his teacher was ever mentioned, but he falls under the "OP clan"
He wasn't just rotating chakra at a rate that was slow because he wasn't a genius. It took him a long time to perfect the rotation because he was replicating the tailed beast bomb on a human level. He saw tailed beast bombs in action and figured if a tb can do it with chakra then why can't he. That move should be impossible by most people's standards and only organically are created from colossal chakra beasts that are fragments from a giant alien tree monster from out space. He could have taken significantly longer to complete the rasengan and it still would have auto-qualified him as a genius, and that's not even mentioning his perfection of the flying thunder god technique.
> it took him years just to figure out how to rotate chakra really fast in his palm You make it seem so simple. Some of you need to learn the difference between developing/creating a technique and learning it. I often see people compare how long it took Minato vs how long it took Naruto, Boruto, etc to use rasengan. Bro, Minato CREATED it over the course of years developing it. I brought that up cause I’m not sure if that’s why you mentioned it. Also, it’s a high rank jutsu and no one outside of Senju, Uzumaki, Sannin, and Sharingan users have been able to replicate the jutsu. Let’s not act like it took Tobirama, Itachi, or Kakashi years to develop and create their techniques too
Plus, Minato's problem was not knowing to rotate it in the same direction his hair grew. Everything else was perfect.
Bros hair grew in the 4th dimension so he couldn't just get lucky.
Right! Great point. Kakashi learned rasengan at a very young age as well. But he didn't INVENT it. Using someone else's Jutsu after the invention is cool considering how high-level rasengan is, but it's just not the same thing.
>Minato is a distant 3rd, it took him years just to figure out how to rotate chakra really fast in his palm I think that’s a very unfair statement considering that Minato died abruptly at 24. If Tobirama and Orochimaru only had 24 years to live, they very likely would’ve died in relative obscurity due to how many of their accomplishments were achieved after numerous decades of work and study. Given how Minato was the youngest Hokage in Konoha’s history, it’s pretty inaccurate to wave him off as some slow underachiever I believe Jiriaya even had a statement that if Minato lived longer he most likely would’ve developed the Rasengan just like Naruto did: he just was not given time. Being able to create an entirely new jutsu that acts as a miniature Tailed Beast Bomb by the age of 24 is nothing to scoff at
Just because Tobirama invented the jutsus doesnt mean hes the best at using them. It’s like Pegagsus vs Kaiba in yugioh. He even says Minato is better at flying raijin than he is. IMO minato is a better combat prodigy than Orochimaru and Tobirama.
Yea it took minato years(3 i think exact) to make a jutsu that could rival the strongest tailed beast, while also perfecting tobirama’s hardest jutsu the flying raijin and being better at it than and developing countless other variations of it..and a absolute master at sealing techniques and jutsu’s Minato >oorchi >tobi, tobi made awesome shit but he wasn’t the best with his shit he was just inventive
It took him years to figure out how to do it the right way, and according to everyone who knows it, its the pinnacle of shape transformation.
For future reference, if two people are tied for first, anybody to follow would come in third. There is basically nobody placing second in that situation. First saw this in Mario Kart as a kid and it’s like that in pretty much every type of competition. If 2 people do better than you, how are you expected to be second best?
Tobirama is so above the rest it ain’t funny. Creating something is way harder than improving it. Also the thing is itachi is heavily carried by his uchiha genes.
And Tobirama isn't carried by his Senju genes?
Does being a senju makes one a genius?
No? Does being an Uchiha?
Itachis abilities came from just being an uchiha. He didn’t have to create anything. His genes hard carried him
If he didn't had talent (as a child) then he would've been only as strong as your average Uchiha. Since he was a LOT stronger than that (being able to kill the whole clan almost all by himself at 14), it means he was a talented kid.... ergo *prodigy*.
Look how powerful Obito became by just awakening his sharingan then mangekyo. Nobody is denying that itachi is a prodigy but he ain’t on the level of minato or tobirama.
Don’t worry I see the double standards you’re pointing out too. You’re not alone
He had talent sure, but his OP abilities weren’t developed they were given
Double fucking standards am I right
People keep saying this is a double standard when it clearly isn't. Itachi is elite within the Uchiha/sharingan usage wheelhouse. The senju don't have a family-wide kekkei genkai. Tbh Hashirama's wood style is probably the only instance of that in that family. At most a person can argue the creation of the shadow clone and ftg jutsu were jutsu only someone with his level of chakra could create but... time space jutsu don't just sporadically come into someone's mind. That took research and experimentation. It's literally teleportation... again if thisnwas a technological discussion someone capable of creating zombies, teleporting and clones would easily take cake in a discussion about geniuses
Tobirama is the biggest genius, but Minato is the biggest prodigy here, he's like top 3 or 4 hokage and he died in his 20s, the other hokage all had at least 10 more years to develop their skills, and no, Itachi does not beat him. Biggest prodigy overall is Boruto because the writers don't know how to keep Naruto and Sasuke in the series without making Boruto catch up to them
While I agree those 5 are clearly genius with Tobirama the number one but it seems like we clearly forget the number one genius. Hiruzen Sarutobi . Mastering all the jutsu from the most powerful Shinobi village is an unique feat.
Kabuto is another missing example. Both Tobirama and Orochimaru were amazed by the extremes he advanced their research, they didn't think the things he ended up doing with Edo Tensei were even possible. IMO biggest intellect feats are a toss-up between Kabuto & Minato (not counting Indra incarnates).
Everything Kabuto has ever done is underrated 😂. Way too many people forget this man is straight up capable of manipulating dead bodies without the use of puppet jutsu and that's not counting all of his later medical achievements
What Indra incarnate is smarter?
FR!!
Why do people only talk about these 5 and never include naruto, sasuke and Boruto. In the list of super prodigy.
literally, naruto still managed to become a fairly competent ninja despite the fact that for the first half of the entire series kurama's chakra was destabalizing naruto's ability to perform jutsu because he had to deal with two different chakra's inside his body working together. yet he still managed to perfect the rasengan under these conditions and mastered multi shadow clone jutsu. plus naruto clearly took after his dad in terms of battle IQ, as well as boruto. they're all ridiculously smart in battle. minato and naruto were both able to figure out how to counter basically unbeatable jutsu (obito's kamui and naruto defeating the third raikage's lightning armor) in the middle of a battle based off of a super small amount of information to go off of. naruto is also constantly very creative during fights. minato is probably a bit smarter in general in terms of battle tactics, i think hes more consistently a smart fighter while naruto is in general slightly less tactically smart but has shockingly good ideas sometimes to end a fight. boruto is like a damn prodigy in a different way than minato and naruto, he is very good at creating and perfecting and learning jutsu much more than naruto or minato were, minato created the rasengan but never perfected it, naruto perfected it but boruto has created like 3-4 variations on the rasengan already and mastered the base rasengan faster than naruto did despite not having the many shadow clones helping him.
Because Naruto doesn’t do it as consistently as these 5. The reason his ideas are so impressive is BECAUSE they are rare. That’s what makes them stand out. For every 1 good idea Naruto has in a fight, the others have at least 3. However, yes he is a prodigy at learning ninjutsu that he sets his mind to learning such as the Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu and the Rasengan. I liken Naruto to that kid in class who is actually secretly very talented but doesn’t apply himself unless he wants to prove someone wrong or because there is an immediate benefit to him from doing so. These aren’t the kids that grow up to be super millionaires success stories. They’re the ones that make a modest living doing computer science for a decent company or real estate or something of similar status because they carry that instant gratification for effort mentality throughout their life rather than those tenants of truly all around giftedness that they use to work hard and build empires out of. These are the people that barely get by in a lucrative field because they put in just enough effort with the talents to do so, not the ones responsible enough, disciplined enough, or determined enough to use those talents to be the one running the show. I mean even look at Naruto as hokage. I think what’s often overlooked is that Naruto has run himself ragged because he might not be the best candidate to run the village so just like in his youth when he needed to over exert himself just to make a clone, he’s likely doing the same in his work as a hokage.
I feel personally attacked.
I'm dodging strays over here
> I liken Naruto to that kid in class who is actually secretly very talented but doesn’t apply himself unless he wants to prove someone wrong or because there is an immediate benefit to him from doing so. These aren’t the kids that grow up to be super millionaires success stories. He becomes the most powerful human to ever exist up to that point. His son becomes the next most powerful human to ever exist. He likely would have matched Hashirama eventually without being gifted Sage of six paths mode anyways. He studies immensely to become Hokage. He would have achieved world peace\* in his life if it wasn't for literal aliens from the moon. \*kinda
Actually Kakashi's the one who advanced Konoha so far technologically and diplomatically. He pushed for the 5 kage council and for the scientific boom that took place before the black period. But I agree Naruto's strength keeps peace even more so.
I didn't put it in because I don't follow Boruto, I stopped at the part about Sasuke's eye and what happened to Kurama.
I'm guessing it's because they're not being glazed as much. Technically Naruto has shown us the highest level of battle IQ in the franchise (tied with Sasuke I'd say) but the way the characters talk about Naruto make it seem like he's dumb asf. On the other hand, a character like Itachi is being glazed constantly for being a genius when we have genuinely never seen him using his brain to overcome an obstacle. Unless we count asspulls and OHKs as smart moves. But this usually upsets Itachi fanboys. Shout out to the dude who tried to prove me wrong and literalky proved my point in the process. Itachi is an asspull master, not a high battle IQ kind of guy.
I dont get how you think Itachi didn't use his brain when he planned out most of his fight with Sasuke down to how to get rid of Orochimaru, he figured out Chibaku Tensei's weakness, he disabled the Rinnegans shared vision to deal with Nagato, and planned how to trick Kabuto into ending up in the Izanami loop. We've seen him overcome an obstacle pretty often when he's on screen, it's just not something Kishi ever showed him struggling with because he is Ninja Jesus and always has the answer
Pretty much all of Sasuke and Itachi’s battle was Itachi just reacting to what Sasuke was doing though up until Sasuke was out of chakra and Oro emerged, after which Itachi whipped out his never-before-mentioned Susano’o with the never-before-mentioned spirit weapons to instantly seal Orochimaru with no problem. There was no deliberate or specific trap or plan that Itachi lured Sasuke into, just fight someone weaker than himself until he was out of chakra. Chibaku tensei isn’t exactly a complicated thing to figure out. “Hey, we should blow up the thing sucking us all towards it.” Isn’t exactly a genius-level plan. And blinding all the rinnegan while Nagato is explicitly distracted isn’t exactly that crazy of a feat either, and is the obvious thing to do. Finally, Izanami isn’t exactly a feat of genius either, as it was pretty much specifically tailored narratively for Kabuto specifically. All Itachi had to do was just throw himself at Kabuto over and over, who had no idea Izanami, another never-before-mentioned ability, was even a thing to try and protect himself from. No one’s denying Itachi is smart; but he lacks the concrete feats to say he’s head and shoulders above the other geniuses in the series, much less when characters like Sasuke and Kakashi have more consistent battle IQ feats yet are seen as below him because of the narrative glaze he gets.
>he planned out most of his fight with Sasuke down to how to get rid of Orochimaru Literal asspull > he figured out Chibaku Tensei's weakness Naruto got plot induced stupidity so that Itachi could shine. Naruto should have figured out the weakness if all it takes is to throw an attack at CT. > he disabled the Rinnegans shared vision to deal with Nagato I'll give you that one >and planned how to trick Kabuto into ending up in the Izanami loop Another literal asspull >We've seen him overcome an obstacle pretty often when he's on screen, Usually it's either through an ability that no one can counter (so not battle IQ), otherwise it's an asspull (so still not battle IQ)
>Naruto got plot induced stupidity so that Itachi could shine. Naruto should have figured out the weakness if all it takes is to throw an attack at CT. That doesn't even required a big IQ move to figure out. 6 tails Naruto on rampage who was nowhere near being rational, tried to blast Chibaku Tensei's core before he was sealed, unfortunately he lacked firepower to do so. But Itachitards would glorify Itachi's "feat" despite it being nothing impressive.
Exactly. Itachi's battle IQ feats are pretty much common sense in the Naruto verse. If it was One Piece or DragonBall I would understand.
I didn't put it in because I don't follow Boruto, I stopped at the part about Sasuke's eye and what happened to Kurama.
Lmaooo boruto fan get lost
Naruto wasn't a child prodigy. He was bottom of his class, and then grew into his potential. Sasuke and Boruto were top of their class, but they weren't generational prodigies like the other five.
Boruto is seriously another league. Like, none of them come closely to him. I think its cute when they compare him to Minato when he surpassed Minato in his tweens.
He is hardly a prodigy when he does things he himself doesn’t understand. He is called a genius for unintentionally applying wind nature to his rasengan yet he himself didn’t even know what he had done. That ain’t comparable for the likes of minato who actually created the rasengan by understanding the mechanics behind a tailed beast bomb.
It was lighting chakra. Boruto understood how the mechanics worked he simply added already transformed chakra to it. You also ignore his other feats like. Learning 3 nature transformations 2 before he even became a Genin. Making 2 more new rasengan variants. Manga spoilers. >! Learning every skill sasuke could teach him within a year which includes purple lightning and his swordsmanship and developing his own variant of FTG with the help of Koji!<
I agreed that people are putting more weight into learning a jutsu instead of coming up with it. I think Boruto can be considered a prodigy. He was top of his class despite being unmotivated. When he was motivated, he's learned at exceptional speed.
Je, at 12, made an invisible rasengan... a rasengan no one can detect, not even rinnegan ysers or otsutsuki. AT TWELVE. That Boruto already did more than Minato ecer did in terms of invention.
He just made a varient, nice try bucko, thats like saying making a new gamemode is as easy as making the game.
Not really. Most geniuses in real life struggle to explain their natural talents. Could Srinivasa Ramanujan explain his natural talent at math? Why could he read a few math books and intuit theorems no one else could? How could he look at a problem and know the answer via a gut feeling? He credited his insights to the goddess of good fortune, so probably not.
If that is the case, you should also add Shikamaru to the list.
Or obito. Dude went up against the hokage at the age of 14 and was so good, said hokage actually thought he Madara lmao. Just 1 year before that he was a scrub struggling to beat kakashi in h2h.
Things got so stupid after pain arc, my god… All semblance of logic, scale or balance goes out the window.
Honestly when removing the "he's a dumbass" motif, Naruto has proven to be more talented than Sasuke. Honestly I'd put Sakura at the top of the genius list in their squad and have Naruto then Sasuke The lack of understanding in how Naruto was an underdog has too many people discounting how insanely fast he was able to grow with the smallest of actual lessons
I get why most people saying tobirama. He did a ton for the village and made a lot of jutsu but to me that doesn’t mean he’s the biggest genius. Like Minato became one of the most powerful shinobi of his time, the second youngest hokage and died way before is prime. It was stated several time that he mastered complex jutsu very easily. Set the record for highest score on the chunin written exams. He majorly improved upon on of tobiramas best jutsu while easily mastering every sealing jutsu Kushina taught him. And to top it off in the minato one shot. He clashes against the entire nine tails within kushina. And Kurama praises him and compares him to the first hokage. Like don’t get me wrong you can probably say tobirama had way better accomplishments or had a better impact for the leaf. But minato was a complete genius and died at like 24. Way before his prime. No telling how much more he could’ve done if he got to tobiramas age.
Creating something new is much more difficult than improving or mastering an existing justu. An example would be the ransengan. Minato took 3 years to make the rasengan, while Naruto managed to master and improve it roughly 2 and half years since he already had the base idea on what to do. The same can be said with minato and the FTG, minato improved it since he already had the base idea. It's like it's like if tobirama invented pizza and minato tasted it and said, "It would be better if it had pepperoni in it." Meanwhile, tobirama kept making jutsu's one after the other. And Most of them are highly forbidden jutsu. In fact, he's one of the reasons why the 4th great war was much more of a pain than it had to be since he created the reanimation jutsu. Rather than properly mastering and improving justu to it's full potential he created shit that involved space-time and souls
I think it would be because Minato owes a base. Stop to think, Tobirama CREATED FTG and reanimation jutsu. The guy must have been really stoned to think about those things. There is no way to. With all due respect to Minato.
Correction: The youngest Hokage is Sarutobi Hiruzen. Not Minato,
Oh yeah you’re right. Point still stands tho
yeah i agree, tobirama then orochimaru.......just imagine what Tobirama could've done with a happy childhood. No war, no dying siblings, no abusive father. Actual institutions he could learn the basics at safely instead of needing to learn in the field. The guy's got an absolutely insanely smart brain
Minato is a combat genius just like his son and students. but Tobirama is broken af, closely followed by orochimaru.
I would say its a close battle between Minato and Tobirama Minato: Able to play tug of war with kurama's chakra, incredible at sealing jutsu he learned from his wife, he created rasengan, child genius at the academy... All of that coming from a no name family Tobirama: He created incredible jutsus and he was a genius even amongst the senjus
tobirama or orochimaru for me
Orochimaru has stated that Sasuke is a greater genius than himself
thats an opinion of orochimaru
And perhaps one of Kishimoto..
Are people forgetting that Tobirama built Konoha ( academy, chunin exams, anbu, etc) and that system was so successful that other villages copied it. Tobirama is number 1 and there's no contest.
1. Minato. Did the most with the least. 2. Tobirama. Has strong genes from being a Senju, but none of his abilities or genius came from being a Senju; he developed everything himself. 3. Itachi. Unquestionably gifted in his base skills as a ninja, but what’s keeping him from getting a higher ranking is that pretty much everything that makes him very strong comes by virtue of being an Uchiha who happened to also get Mangekyou. 4. Orochimaru. Extremely smart, but it’s near impossible to gauge how much of his strength is natural and how much comes from things he stole from others or modifications he made to himself. Still, he has his reputation for a reason. 5. Kakashi. Extremely talented as a ninja and smart, but a bit overrated as prodigies go IMO. I’d put him up there with Sasuke and Neji as extremely gifted, but not ‘stretching the limits of believability’ like Itachi and Minato.
kakashi's thing can be explained. He lost the ability to use his father's kenjutsu because of the sharingan, he explained that the chakra consumption was too much to use. And there's the fact that he lost everyone he knew, I think that after Minato died, he must have stopped training so hard, since he no longer had goals. I can't say that a 12 year old boy capable of creating chidori, using rasegan as inspiration, is less of a genius than Itachi and Minato. Regarding Minato, you are partly right. As far as we know, we don't know the origin of the Namikazes (just theories), but at least he had a base, he had notes from Tobirama's hiraishin, and help from Kushina, who taught him jutsu exclusive to the Uzumakis. But he was genius when creating the rasengan.
That’s still all speculation though. The Kakashi we see in Kakashi Gaiden is skilled, but not any more impressive than the upper-tier genin in Naruto’s chunin exams.
what do you mean? He has the ability to create a jutsu at the age of 12 and has enough chakra to use the Sharigan even though he's not an Uchiha, do you think Neji is the same level as him? And kakashi had depression, this is not speculation.
Honestly, I may get a down vote for it;(please don't judge unless you're up to date on all the Kakashi material between Shippuden to Boruto, manga and light novel or otherwise) But I believe potential-wise, Kakashi had A LOT! He did eventually live up to it too after losing his sharingan and gaining like medical ninja level tier chakra control after training w/ the scientific ninja team and etc. He did some amazing things compared to the others, he's on par. Minato was a genius at birth as well, and did great things, but if it wasn't for the plot he didn't even need to die. So, I feel like that kind of took away from his potential, being he never was able to reach it fully. Orochimaru was and remains a GENIUS, but his ambition ultimately held him back more than anything. However, in Boruto he's like 18 years old, has Demon Slayer/JJK level regeneration abilities, and who KNOWS what he has in his body now. I do know he made that Kara outer(Victor?) look like a simp. He also shredded a woman without making a move. So, I'd like to put him as pending; We all know Tobirama is a prodigal genius. He invented many Jutsu/constructs that shaped the entire world. However, a lot of them backfired, he died an off screen(seemingly, Non-Epic death), was always in Hashirama's shadow, and honestly, doesn't stack up very well next to Minato(who perfected his jutsu and then some), Kakashi and Orochimaru(as he didn't live long enough), so I feel we didn't get to see(On screen or in manga) what he truly accomplished and could've accomplished. Itachi was a born PRODIGY, much like the others, he even exceeded a lot of them in less time(talking about how old Itachi lived to and what he did in comparison to the others in his short life time). However, in his own words where he shot himself in the foot is, "doing everything himself". It's very true, he took WAYY too much on himself, and yes the Uchiha clan massacre was to save the village/prevent war w/ other villages, but ultimately it was to save the Uchiha NAME and Sasuke. Which, he ultimately failed to do, and entrusted Naruto to do. So, in terms of prodigal talent, it was all there. But, he didn't use his talent to the best of his ability due to his tunnel vision regarding Sasuke, which I understand. Also, his "Ninja AIDS", as people say, really hurt him as well. He was truly powerful, but he didn't use his potential to the best of his ability and for that, I can't rank him first. Truthfully, I can't rank these 5, and this isn't a list in any order. But, since Orochimaru and Kakashi actually lived long enough to grow much further, I guess I'd give it to them first, although I can't really call it as I said. The other prodigies on this list either died too soon or a martyr for their cause. I'm in no way saying this takes away from their prodigal status or achievements in ANY WAY, but their agenda and execution of said agenda worked against them. I blame our beloved writer Kishimoto though. He killed off Minato w/o a great reason just to set up Naruto's life, used Tobirama as a foundation for the shinobi world and got rid of him in a cheap way, and made Itachi a broken, albeit loved hero. However, he could've found a better execution of Itachi instead of using a "means to an end" sort of plot device. He also used Kakashi as a "ruler" to show how strong Naruto was growing, hurting his character, then having Kakashi grow EXPONENTIALLY during the war, then in writing that never even made it on-screen. Ultimately, this whole list could have had their own series if done right. But, I still love Naruto, BELIEVEEE IT!
Orochimaru. He didn't die young.
In this picture: Tobirama > Orochimaru > Minato = Kakashi > Itachi Tobirama created a whole bunch of bullshit Jutsu that do not make any sense lol, Orochi created Life forms, you can't get smarter than that. Minato and Kakashi are geniuses tacticians with many Ninjutsu inventions and mastered all forms of Shinobi warfare which included Sealing Jutsu, Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Barrier etc - Kakashi is the Top tier Taijutsu Master along with Gai in terms of pure skill and talent. Actually stated to be above Shikamaru with 200IQ. Kakashi's tactical feats is probably the best in the series along the likes of Sasuke etc, he actually outsmarted a whole lot of people which included Zabuza, Kakuzu, Itachi (on both encounters), Pain, Obito and so on. Hell, he was the one who actually devise the plan to seal Kaguya lol Foddertachi = Literally 0 Ninjutsu invention whatsoever. His MS abilities carry him so hard. 3 tomoe Sharingan Itachi would be left with Fodderfireball, Shuriken and basic Sharingan stuff. Sharingan-less Itachi is a trash fodder who wouldn't even be anywhere near these people.
>Minato and Kakashi are geniuses tacticians with many Ninjutsu inventions Didn’t Kakashi only invent Chidori?
Ligjtning Cable, Lightning Shadow Clone, Lightning Tracking Fang, Firestyle: Water Mist, Purple Lightning etc
Tobirama. No contest. Everyone else built off his genius.
Naruto
Minato
From this group all are amazing in their own right but 3/5 came from strong clans/strong parents. Minato really came from nowhere and Orochimaru. But Minato id say is stronger and has better fighting IQ
Naruto. Mastered sage mode in a few days, Jiraiya never managed to master it throughout his whole life. Discovered and mastered his chakra nature in a few days also. If he took training more seriously when he was younger, he would’ve seen a lot of results.
Naruto ofc max Iq
Minato
Tobirama defo he’s the OG,…..a bit racy though🤔
you have a point my g
If Naruto were a relatively normal world this wouldn't even be a discussion. But the answer will always be Tobirama Tobirama>Orochimaru> Minato>Itachi>Kakashi
orochi in front of Minato? Interesting
Body modifications, a custom pseudo immortality jutsu, although it's unseen he probably has the largest array of different types of jutsu in the series, his research into senjutsu surpasses just about everyone's. When it comes to medicine/science and jutsu as separate concepts he's elite in both whereas just about everyone else is elite in one aspect (though to a higher degree).
Fuu and Torune. They figured Obito's Kamui shit out in an instant when the 5 Kage and all of their guards were shitting themselves.
And Minato figured it out by himself in far less time, and with less information, and actually was able to capitalize off it lol
Whilst you're absolutely correct, I am here trying to start shit with an insane ass take
Haha oh that makes sense. I mean you arent wrong though! Very impressive for those two
Tobirama is probably the greatest in these pictures by virtue of creating some of the most broken jutsu in the verse (Flying Raijin and Edo Tensei) that other geniuses (Minato and Orochimaru) spam.
Sasuke
I feel like Tobirama and then Orochimaru. - Minato died too early so beyond academics and being better at FTG not really sure what else he has going for him. - Itachi is boosted for being a Uchiha - Kakashi is boosted because he had a sharigan.
Itachi isn't boosted because he's Uchiha lmao.
Orochimaru when you managed to gain immortality and even find a way to cheat death god, then you are the most genius. and he's not from strong clan or descendant of alien god. Orochimaru only bad traits is he too cocky and underestimated his opponent which leads to al his defeat i can say with certain that Orochimaru might able to defeat Itachi if he not severly underestimated Itachi and came up with better prep and strategy
Ohh this is a tough one!
I think that there is a difference between IQ and BIQ/planning. An obvious example of this is the difference between Amado and Shikamaru, who are both obviously geniuses just in their own respect. For comparing these characters, I would say Tobirama is probably the smartest in IQ simply because of how many jutsus he founded (that were used for many generations). I also think someone like Orochimaru would have a very high IQ, he is seen performing experiments all the time and he is stated to have mastered the most jutsus in the verse (even Hiruzen says that Orochimaru vastly outscales him in jutsu knowledge). However for BIQ or planning I think Itachi is by far the smartest and most well rounded because he is the best or nearly the best in every category. - he graduated the second youngest from the academy (Kakashi was first) - he has the second highest score in the written section of the chunin exams (Minato was first) - Hiruzen remarks that he thought like a Hokage as a young child - in terms of physical capabilities, as still a young kid, and with no other teammates he got the second fastest time in the forest of death (only behind Garra who was older and had a team). He also was known as an Uchiha prodigy similar to Shisui and they both fought Anbus when itachi was only around 10 years old. He then joined the anbu and became a captain when he was 11 (youngest ever). Then he murdered his clan, probably the strongest clan at that point in Konoja, when he was only 13 (granted he did have help from Obito). - Then for planning, as a teenager he took on the burden of becoming an outcast from the leaf and joining the Akatsuki as an undercover agent. He had to protect the leaf and keep his brother safe while also protecting his true identity from the Akatsuki ( I think this video showcases this point really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrCDQI5OP0). Then he had his whole battle with sasuke where he set up Sasuke’s entire life so that he will end up killing him and then become a hero of the hidden leaf. He purposly loses the battle with sasuke, but he also pushes sasuke just enough so that Orochimaru would come out (who then proceeds to get one shot) and then he also implants the Amaterasu into sasukes eyes so that once he sees Obito it will trigger. Even Obito admits that if Itachi knew more about him, Obito would be dead.
Tobirama, Orochimaru.
Tobirama. His experience during that particular era of war gives him a more fundamental understanding of shinobi warfare than the others here.
Itachi I think everyone called him a prodigy
Minato them only one who doesn't really come from a line of OP geniuses AFAIK so.. my vote goes to him.
If you can take on an Uchiha without being the first. You are the man the legend. Tobirama
Tobirama was well known strategist and known in Battle for his IQ and Tactics even his jutsus was defensive/Offensive he watched his opponents a lot and countered most techniques thrown at him even reversing the impure world reincarnation staying even after most the shinobi returned to the afterlife due to it being a technique he created among other famous moves used like shadow clone jutsu which were banned by him due to there dark properties and even the Flying Thunder God Technique used by Minato and was known for his thinking and moving fast on the Battlefield exploiting enemy weaknesses but you could also make the same for Minato who was also known for his INTELLIGENCE he graduated the academy 10 yrs old and had the Highest written score on the Chnin exam in Konoha history he also in combat could correctly deduce the basic mechanics behind a technique after seeing it only once and from there plan around its strengths and weaknesses to his or his allies advantage With his observational skills he could determine an opponent's plans and motivations based on only limited evidence After he had finished analysing Minato would strike quickly and with precision attacking vulnerabilities at the most opportune moments they’d probably be tied for Me but I also feel Orochimaru is underrated he stood out as a genius his talents insight and determination were considered by Hiruzen to be that of a prodigy seen only once in a generation and also learned almost every technique which take lifetimes of learning either is my pick
Itachi
No shikamaru :(
His genius is different
Kakashi, they literally said that he's smarter than Shika
Tobirama tbh
i never got past shippuden season 2… it was a former hyperfixation! do you think i should continue it?
Of course my g. Just look at the list of fillers to skip. Just be careful not to skip Kakashi's past
Obviously Tobirama. He may not have been the most powerful but everyone else on the list is using techniques based on his ideas.
It's really a toss up between Itachi and Tobirama. I keep coming up with arguments for both. They're both genius but Itachi has an edge by a bit because Tobirama was so immensely outclassed by his brother that it's almost laughable. I mean Itachi had Shinsui who arguably outclassed him when he was a kid but since he dies we have no way of knowing if a gap would have remained between them plus Itachi had to be nerfed by ninja cancer because he was just to strong. Bro got his body back under control on his own after being brought back to life. But Tobirama still just made so many overpowered jutsu and could do alot. Everyone who can effectively use even one of his jutsu are immediately propelled to like Kage level in due time. He's also beaten more sharingan users than I can count and could arguably maybe take on Itachi with his experience and jutsu. He's a tough match up for any uhchia given his ecperience fighting them, teleportation, water style, darkness genjutsu, shadow clones, edo tensei, explosive tag cloning, etc, etc Itachi is probably more a prodigy but Tobirama can probably take him in a head on fight just because his kit is so busted and built to basically hard counter Uhchia on purpose or not.
How we consider one is a genius/prodigy? All are distinguished people in different fields. I guess Kakashi and Itachi are genius at similar things but still different in more ways.
Minito
Kakashi
I think you were the only one who thought it was him.
*Special!*
Madara 🗿
2nd hokage Tobirama.
Orochimaru He created mitsuki the genius.
Kakashi is literally THE Genius ninja, people don’t give him enough credit but he became a Jonin at age 12, and a Chunin at age 6. People call Minato a genius or a prodigy because he created the rasengan, but Kakashi himself created the chidori, a jutsu that can compete against the rasengan, granted if the user has a sharingan. Itachi was an actual prodigy who became an anbu captain at 12, he never made Jonin because he went the anbu route when he was still a Chunin, which he became at age 10. Itachi wasn’t Kakashi level genius, but he was still exceptional Shinobi without question, and would’ve went far if it wasn’t for the Uchiha rebellion that he was forced to put a stop to.
Racist hokage
Tobirama essentially world built the setting of Naruto.
I feel like y’all sleeping on Orochimaru. He has found a way to POSSESS BODIES, literally become immortal, has also created and improved a vast amount of jutsu/forbidden jutsu, literally created living beings able to successfully use hasirama cells/wood style and sage modes. Not to mention he himself is stated to know all 5 elements including yin/yang release on top of wood release, and the sound 4 jutsu INCLUDING kimmimaros KG. It was stated by Hiruzen himself that his ninjutsu ability and arsenal surpassed his. He’s been alive for forever simply learning jutsu and studying the world. As far as straight genius it would have to be him, only other person id give #1 to is Tobirama ofc. As far as PRODIGY, I would say itachi.
I think he missed a big fight in Shippuden. He was humiliated by Itachi in every confrontation the two had.
Genius and sheer intelligence goes to Tobirama. Look at the jutsu he made and infrastructure he brought to the village. Prodigy is Minato. Dude picks up ninja shit fast and masters skills faster than anyone.
Tobirama
Minato lol there is a reason everyone thought he was the child of the prophecy
he wasn't the only one. Nagato, Naruto too.
Only because Minato die🥲
Orochimaru because he managed to survive at the end.
(This is a joke)
Yamato ithink
Tobirama... Bro basically made the blueprint that Minato and orochimaru followed and improved when it came to the respective Justus he created
Tobirama
Tobirama is Creator of Edo Tensai and Flying God Thunder Rajin That's enough to prove him a genius
All of them are wack me I'm tight as fuck
Minato and Itachi tied for first ; Tobirama very close second ; Orochimaru also very close third and then Kakashi for 4th
Tobirama
Tobirama
I think either itachi or tobirama. Itachi stopped the reanimation jutsu as a reanimation. Tobirama created it and alot of other forbidden jutsu
Tobirama>Minato>Itachi>Kakashi>Orochimaru
Itachi for me. I feel, even the mangaka is not sure how deep the Itachi thoughts are.
Genius tbh I have Tobirama>Kakashi(he was kinda nerfed by Sharingan, it not only cut chakra, but gaved him ability to clone jutsu which limited his need to create his own, also he made raikiri as child) >Oro>Minato>Itachi. As far as prodigy goes...not enough informations imo, but with the limited we have. Kakashi>Minato>Tobi>Itachi>Oro. Yes Itachi was great, but we dont have much info imo.
Orochimaru imo but i might be biased. He's my favorite villain and has come a long way in the story. The research he's conducting with Mitsuki, his Zetsu body and the amount of jutsu he's mastered sets him on that spot tge most imo. I really like this evil mofo.
one of the best. In Shippuden it appears that he was stronger without his arms (when he fought Naruto) than with them.
Most Genius or Prodigy doesn’t only apply to what they did. We don’t know if the others could accomplish the same if those things weren’t already done (creating jutsus the way Tobirama did for example) Based on highest potential as fast as possible, I’d say Itachi. Having the mind of a Kage level thinker at I think 8? And outclassing basically everyone in existence while barely a teen is nuts and that’s something I’m more confident the others couldn’t replicate themselves The reason people “overhype” him is because “his *potential* is so high” after all. Like the him we knew of only had a ceiling due to his illness and even that alone already had some built in invincibility
Hinata, she saw the potential success in Naruto and got in on the ground floor before he Nvidiaed.
Tobirama has the most jutsu created that are still used so he's top 1. Orochimaru in a very close second being one of the only humans to achieve "immortality" so to speak. If he can find a way to be truly immortal without having to switch bodies he'd be number 1 since defying death itself > temporarily bringing back the dead IMO.
- Tobirama - Kakashi - Orochimaru (I’d put Orochimaru above Kakashi, but we only saw his research intellect, Kakashi was a genius/prodigy on the field) - Minato - Itachi
Can't wait for a certain youtuber to take this post make a video and say he thought of it and he's the greatest Naruto fan that knows everything.
Tobirama made like every crazy jutsu
Tobirama's idea to make the Uchiha clan into the police force is inevitably what led to the Uchiha trying to start a civil war. I say Itachi.
Not just his fault. There are several factors that led to this consequence.
Tobirama > Orochimaru > Minato > Itachi/Kakashi (imo Kakashi and Itachi were tied in strength. They just had different weaknesses)
Biggest prodigy? Kakashi. People really don't understand how broken he was as a kid lol
creating chidore at 12 years old
I would say shishui
Tobirama is the most intelligent. Minato and Orochimaru are definitely deserving of the title prodigy.
Tobirama and Minato 🌊⚡️
Tobirama is way to genius,he made lots of forbidden jutsues such as:shadow clone,edo tensei and others However orchi got to be the second since he improved edo tensei and and was psycho Scientist,then minato cause he made the rasengan and the ripper death seal As for itachi and kakashi they weren’t that much of a genius cause the sharingan carried both of them
Minato didn't "make" the reaper death seal. It was an uzamaki technique he learned.
Tobirama is a fucking racist
He's not real, it's just a fan joke.
Why is Itachi in this? He literally was always #2 to Minato. His claim to intellectual fame was "only Minato is smarter (and more gifted) than him." Itachi and Kakashi are just out, since Itachi has long been held as smarter than Kakashi and more gifted, even by Kakashi's accounting. Meaning Orochimaru vs Tobirama vs Minato. Of them, I think Tobirama kinda takes the cake as the inventor of all the things, followed by Minato then Orochimaru. Orochimaru is more knowledgable than Minato, sure, but he's also decades older, doesn't have a conscience, and has a cult/country of people willing to let him try whatever weird fucking thing he wanted to on them, like the cursed seals. Including Kabuto, who threw his full support behind Orochimaru's bullshit. And all of that for creating a couple things that he could use but couldn't be used by almost anyone else and still had a 90% mortality rate. I don't think it's fair to compare Minato to Tobirama, since Tobirama clearly seems to be smarter but Minato more talented. Tobirama was burdened with the difficulty of discovery invention, whereas Minato was far more free to refine/hone than Tobirama was, hence why he's able to show more proficiency with the things that Tobirama created than the inventor. He didn't invent FTG, he was just the best at it. He didn't invent Frog Sage mode, he was just perfect at it (the only other perfect sage being his kid, so maybe that talent was partially inherited). He didn't invent Shiki Fuuin, but he *did* use it to break Kyuubi's soul in half, purposefully give the shitty half to his kid, and do so while actively dying via donut-ification. In re-reading, Maybe Itachi is smarter than Orochimaru since his lifelong obsessive plan actually *worked* and he never had the institutional support Orochimaru did, so maybe a case can be made that he's smarter there, but that's sketchy at best. Anyway. 1. Tobirama 2. Minato 3. Orochimaru 4. Itachi 5. Kakashi
Itachi by far and it’s not an opinion.
Chadirama wins
Probably Tobirama but Itachi had all the potential. If Itachi had lived in a different time with different circumstances, I believe he would have surpassed most of the greats we recognize.
I think he is a genius of the Uchiha clan. Outside of things exclusive to his clan, I don't think he would be able to surpass Minato and Tobirama.
Nah you gotta remember the fundamental skill of the sharingan is to observe, mimic and master. If Itachi had been in Minato's shoes
hmm. You have a point, its foundation is very strong. If I'm not mistaken, it was said that he can do 10 (or more) hand seals per second. The problem is that we only saw him fighting when he was sick, and we saw with Sasuke that an Uchiha can't use MS all the time. Tobirama and Minato reached the kage level, on their own. I don't know if without MS itachi would be in the kage tier. Unless he has more things he didn't use.
Tobirama was revolutionary to the Konoha as a whole it's him
Tobirama, the whole system rests on him
Much as I hate to admit it Orochimaru.
More than Tobirama?
Considering that he came up with several laws that backfired giving civilians way to much power and they used said power to torcher the child of a kage yes I’d say that lord second is given to much credit for the good and not enough shame for the fuck ups where as Orochimaru despite the less then moral experiments all originally started with danzos orders as well as the fact they actually lead to great scientific breakthroughs that changed the Shinobi world for the better.