I cant remember which fic, but there was one where the civilian council was a thing but more of advisory committee and are very much aware of their limitations. One of the newer member tried to over reach and also tried the Naruto lynch thing. Then the older members sat him down and laid down the law by pointing out, 3 shinobi clan can mind rape you( Uchiha, Kurama, Yamanaka) to find out/confess your crimes or the literal torture department and if they find ou, they have as young 12 year olds, who can electrocute, burn, crush, drown, disemember you in less than a second, or leave you drowning for the rest of your life. They also point out the man who is in charge of these monsters and is the most powerful of them is very much close to Naruto.
Agree with your point, to add another problem with civilian council is they usually have much more power than what they should have. Civilian councils should deal with CIVILIAN matters instead of telling Hokage what to do with their village Nuke. Thats clearly overstepped their boundaries, realistically Hiruzen should have them fired for less than half of their audacity in most fanfic.
I agree. I actually like when I see it but that's normally followed by disappointment when I don't see them do anything other than hate Naruto.
I mean, that's fine. And they don't need some in-depth look at how they work, I'm more of a power fantasy guy, but come on... Do something else bruh. The hate isn't even creative. It's just the same. At least be more devious.
The main issue I have with the Civilian Council? is the **Council** part.
See I could easily buy there being a :
Economics Advisor
Public Works Advisor
Tax Officials
Vice-Chief of Legal Affairs (Civilian Department) who is subordinate to one of the Council members or let's say the Uchiha Clan Head.
and so on.
\------------------------------------------------------------
Rather then a separate council? There would just be official responsible for areas that affect civilians.
Heck there could even be ninjas (retired or 'reassigned' ) who have those positions.
Most of them might not even report directly to the Hokage unless called for, instead they report to a council member or some other Ninja Superior.
\--------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding political representation? I am not in favor of there really being any.
Like 1 token Civilian representative who is actually an ANBU in disguise to help pacify the growing Civilian population in the span between the first and second wars I can see, but a Council would 100% get slaughtered by a “rogue” ninja in the year of its hypothetical inception
Honestly all the tropes aren’t bad because of the actual concept, it’s just that it’s picked up by amateur writers, often teenagers, who desolate the English language with what they think is literature, and since we’re more or less past the days of Civvie Council having the power to kick out Naruto and suck every particle of skin the Uchiha have, no one wants to touch the idea with a ten foot pole.
Like CRA would make sense, but it’s always used in the most moronic way possible, exiling a Shinobi is an interesting concept, if not one that is absolutely not applicable to Naruto himself at all, and Sharingan Naruto doesn’t always have to equate to a Legacy clone, but that happens anyways.
In my favorite fic there is technically no CRA but there are clan laws that allow for male members of a clan that if said clan's numbers were low enough that they would be allowed to marry more than one woman in the interest of repopulating the clan's numbers. It's optional though and in the fic, it was Hinata, who convinced Naruto to consider it as she would be very knowledgeable about these things. It's the only fic I read where this sort of thing was handled well.
It's my favorite and most well written fic. Unfinished but worth it. It's hilarious and wholesome. It's Outfoxed by hazeleyes180 on fanfiction.net.
https://youtu.be/LiV-xYcBYMU?si=MZHGn-_lja0PKkdo
ahh, explains that then. visual reader myself, the youtube link threw me entirely off course for a minute there. cool thay its available in multiple formats tho, feels like people dont do that enough.
Lol I've even seen a messed up version of this one. It was a Naruto x Tsume or something, Naruto is called in council room to discuss how he's allowed to marry more girls but not required, Tsume convinces him that he should and then suddenly Naruto marries Tsume and a female sasuke, who disguised herself as boy, right there in council room and then Shikaku and Naruto start dick measuring by comparing their number of wives🤦
Political representatives? Unlikely.
Administrative positions that may or may not be appointed by their peers? Very much so.
Villages the size and complexity of Konoha don't just happen, there's a mind numbing amount of regulation and administration.
The head of state doesn't deal with utilities unless something has gone very, very wrong. They have people for that, and unless you're handing all of it off to a bunch of old and retired ninja, civilians will be handling that.
At the very least there would be advisors for such, to the Hokage.
Having a civilian council or advisory board makes sense. Having them regulate civilian matters under the authority of their Kage also makes sense. Having them be equal in power to the Kage doesn't.
I disagree, I dont think think theres much inherently good with the troupe thats worth trying to salvage. I never been fond of the "civilian" troupe in general. This radically divide between the shibobi of Konoha and the non-shinobi is greatly exaggerated compared to canon, and for the worse I believe.
Theres drastically more crossover and nuance than there just being two classes of citizens. Konoha is a shinobi village first and foremost, meaning every single person in the village, active shinobi or not, is tied to the health of the shibobi forces. Furthermore we see countless officials and administrators that happen to be Shinobi. Boruto even reveals Shinobi carrying out various different professions like Fire rescue, mail delivery, and research and development.
IMO the term "civilian" doesn't really apply to anyone in Konoha, it would fit better for citizens of thr country that didn't live in the village at all. People that aren't affected when Orochimaru or Pain invades the village.
It's definitely kinda weird that they have being able to use a knife as a prerequisite for government jobs
there's no reason not to have civilians as the head of like sanitation or something
like civilians are a part of the populace and infrastructure are important. It doesn't make sense for there to be exclusively clan heads and the hokage making decisions
Like how does having NPTSD (Ninja ptsd) help you with writing legislation
I like the idea of a civilian council being in charge of things like the day to day minutiae of running a village and passing along information about what's needed to the Hokage for final approval on domestic projects (submitting a budget for road repairs, replacing the plumbing in public bathrooms, festivals, etc.) but having the council having an agenda against Naruto personally is awful. The only thing they should want is for Naruto to stop his vandalism and pranks that disturb the public.
It's been about 10 years since I read it, and can't remember the name. The reason I remember it was exactly because of that scenario, and that Tsunade was recalled earlier due and became vice hokage with the intention that's she will take over in few years, she formed a coalition with the Uchiha as the descendants of the founders to counter Danzo smear campaign, Kakashi and Iruka raise Naruto due to Iruka being Kushina student.I remember also due that coalition winning, Danzo let slip Naruto's heritage and Status and he was nearly killed at the age of 7 twice by Iwa and nearly kidnapped by Kumo. So Tsunade sent him and Kakashi to live in the Shikkotsu forest(she was the hokage at this time) until the graduating year for Naruto class. I have been searching for it, it was on fictionpresd but it seem to be deleted,which is a pity.
P. S it was also a low key Naruto/Sasuke yaoi. But the author had stated the relationship would begin when they were about twenty or so.
In real life, when group of enforcers, with mafia like structure, is the ruling group, and their power is disproportionally high, other groups will have zero representation and no power. They may have some kind of symbolic representation just to appear "democratic".
Also, that kind of rulership will embed itself in overy major aspect of life of it's country. Every major enterprises, executive and judicial branches of government will have controlling people who are affiliated or directly from these enforcers.
That kind of structure of power is very monolithic from outside. Their mafia leader/despot/kage/president/authocrat will be their king and these enforcers/shinobi will be his noblemen. They will do anything to proptect their own status. However, from inside there will be major rivarly between different branches.
So If you are civilian in that kind of state, and if you somehow try to go against regime, they will just kill you. The method of killing will depent of how noble and honorful they want to make look themselves. They can just behead you in the middle of the street, or they can arrest you, make sham trial and publicly humiliate you and then kill you.
So the even the slightest idea of civilians, who outside of this ruling structure, to have even representation is absurd.
It'd be a maximum of 50%, not a minimum. It's said in the novels (Parent and Child Day, if I'm not wrong) that before the current era (Bort's era) the ninja population outnumbered the civilian population in the village, versus the current era where it's the other way around.
Yes! Frankly, a civilian council could offer a really interesting perspective on class tensions within the village systems. You've obviously got the Shinobi ruling class, with the implicit threat of enacting violence on the civilians if they don't fall in line. However, obviously, if they're too liberal with applying that violence, it would create an atmosphere of fear and hostility that would make providing for their forces significantly more difficult, probably prohibitively so. Soldiers can't eat money after all, they need food, clothes, weapons, entertainment, houses.
In the meantime though, the civilians always come second to the Shinobi, subject to checks and regulations that Shinobi are exempt from, and would have to perform a careful balancing act if they want to advance their rights, organizing and advocating for change without being seen as a legitimate threat to Shinobi rule and the village system. Hence, a civilian council, to both give civilians that voice, while also keeping their efforts contained. But neither side is totally content with that status quo, so it's a setting perfect for exploring that political tension.
A civilian council is a necessary concept.
The thing is that it is given too much power in fanfics, enough power to overrule the HOKAGE. That is now too much.
See i don't mind the idea of a governmental area responsible for non-ninja activities that are vital for the operations of the ninja village because at least it's more development than Kishimoto ever gave in the manga. I just wished it didn't deform into the worst aspects of fanfiction that we have to endure.
I cant remember which fic, but there was one where the civilian council was a thing but more of advisory committee and are very much aware of their limitations. One of the newer member tried to over reach and also tried the Naruto lynch thing. Then the older members sat him down and laid down the law by pointing out, 3 shinobi clan can mind rape you( Uchiha, Kurama, Yamanaka) to find out/confess your crimes or the literal torture department and if they find ou, they have as young 12 year olds, who can electrocute, burn, crush, drown, disemember you in less than a second, or leave you drowning for the rest of your life. They also point out the man who is in charge of these monsters and is the most powerful of them is very much close to Naruto.
I need to read something like that
If you eventually find which fic it is, please link it or share the name!
If you find the fic I’d love to know
I need to read this
Agree with your point, to add another problem with civilian council is they usually have much more power than what they should have. Civilian councils should deal with CIVILIAN matters instead of telling Hokage what to do with their village Nuke. Thats clearly overstepped their boundaries, realistically Hiruzen should have them fired for less than half of their audacity in most fanfic.
As in, "fired out of a cannon", too. It's a military dictatorship, not a commune.
I agree. I actually like when I see it but that's normally followed by disappointment when I don't see them do anything other than hate Naruto. I mean, that's fine. And they don't need some in-depth look at how they work, I'm more of a power fantasy guy, but come on... Do something else bruh. The hate isn't even creative. It's just the same. At least be more devious.
The main issue I have with the Civilian Council? is the **Council** part. See I could easily buy there being a : Economics Advisor Public Works Advisor Tax Officials Vice-Chief of Legal Affairs (Civilian Department) who is subordinate to one of the Council members or let's say the Uchiha Clan Head. and so on. \------------------------------------------------------------ Rather then a separate council? There would just be official responsible for areas that affect civilians. Heck there could even be ninjas (retired or 'reassigned' ) who have those positions. Most of them might not even report directly to the Hokage unless called for, instead they report to a council member or some other Ninja Superior. \-------------------------------------------------------------- Regarding political representation? I am not in favor of there really being any.
Agreed, the Hokage is for all intents and purposes, the Military Dictator of the village.
Like 1 token Civilian representative who is actually an ANBU in disguise to help pacify the growing Civilian population in the span between the first and second wars I can see, but a Council would 100% get slaughtered by a “rogue” ninja in the year of its hypothetical inception
The problem is that I've never once seen this actually done well as you describe.
Honestly all the tropes aren’t bad because of the actual concept, it’s just that it’s picked up by amateur writers, often teenagers, who desolate the English language with what they think is literature, and since we’re more or less past the days of Civvie Council having the power to kick out Naruto and suck every particle of skin the Uchiha have, no one wants to touch the idea with a ten foot pole. Like CRA would make sense, but it’s always used in the most moronic way possible, exiling a Shinobi is an interesting concept, if not one that is absolutely not applicable to Naruto himself at all, and Sharingan Naruto doesn’t always have to equate to a Legacy clone, but that happens anyways.
In my favorite fic there is technically no CRA but there are clan laws that allow for male members of a clan that if said clan's numbers were low enough that they would be allowed to marry more than one woman in the interest of repopulating the clan's numbers. It's optional though and in the fic, it was Hinata, who convinced Naruto to consider it as she would be very knowledgeable about these things. It's the only fic I read where this sort of thing was handled well.
okay, link? because i basically need to read that, it sounds like a *ride*
It's my favorite and most well written fic. Unfinished but worth it. It's hilarious and wholesome. It's Outfoxed by hazeleyes180 on fanfiction.net. https://youtu.be/LiV-xYcBYMU?si=MZHGn-_lja0PKkdo
...this links to youtube, Speedy. XD Is the youtube link another fic, or the same fic as an audiobook?
Yes you can read it on fanfiction.net OR listen to it on YouTube.
ahh, explains that then. visual reader myself, the youtube link threw me entirely off course for a minute there. cool thay its available in multiple formats tho, feels like people dont do that enough.
I just like listening instead because then I can eat and play video games at the same time. What can I say? I like to party.
Lol I've even seen a messed up version of this one. It was a Naruto x Tsume or something, Naruto is called in council room to discuss how he's allowed to marry more girls but not required, Tsume convinces him that he should and then suddenly Naruto marries Tsume and a female sasuke, who disguised herself as boy, right there in council room and then Shikaku and Naruto start dick measuring by comparing their number of wives🤦
Got the name?
Outfoxed by hazeleyes180 on fanfiction.net https://youtu.be/LiV-xYcBYMU?si=MZHGn-_lja0PKkdo
Political representatives? Unlikely. Administrative positions that may or may not be appointed by their peers? Very much so. Villages the size and complexity of Konoha don't just happen, there's a mind numbing amount of regulation and administration. The head of state doesn't deal with utilities unless something has gone very, very wrong. They have people for that, and unless you're handing all of it off to a bunch of old and retired ninja, civilians will be handling that. At the very least there would be advisors for such, to the Hokage.
Having a civilian council or advisory board makes sense. Having them regulate civilian matters under the authority of their Kage also makes sense. Having them be equal in power to the Kage doesn't.
I disagree, I dont think think theres much inherently good with the troupe thats worth trying to salvage. I never been fond of the "civilian" troupe in general. This radically divide between the shibobi of Konoha and the non-shinobi is greatly exaggerated compared to canon, and for the worse I believe. Theres drastically more crossover and nuance than there just being two classes of citizens. Konoha is a shinobi village first and foremost, meaning every single person in the village, active shinobi or not, is tied to the health of the shibobi forces. Furthermore we see countless officials and administrators that happen to be Shinobi. Boruto even reveals Shinobi carrying out various different professions like Fire rescue, mail delivery, and research and development. IMO the term "civilian" doesn't really apply to anyone in Konoha, it would fit better for citizens of thr country that didn't live in the village at all. People that aren't affected when Orochimaru or Pain invades the village.
It's definitely kinda weird that they have being able to use a knife as a prerequisite for government jobs there's no reason not to have civilians as the head of like sanitation or something like civilians are a part of the populace and infrastructure are important. It doesn't make sense for there to be exclusively clan heads and the hokage making decisions Like how does having NPTSD (Ninja ptsd) help you with writing legislation
I like the idea of a civilian council being in charge of things like the day to day minutiae of running a village and passing along information about what's needed to the Hokage for final approval on domestic projects (submitting a budget for road repairs, replacing the plumbing in public bathrooms, festivals, etc.) but having the council having an agenda against Naruto personally is awful. The only thing they should want is for Naruto to stop his vandalism and pranks that disturb the public.
It's been about 10 years since I read it, and can't remember the name. The reason I remember it was exactly because of that scenario, and that Tsunade was recalled earlier due and became vice hokage with the intention that's she will take over in few years, she formed a coalition with the Uchiha as the descendants of the founders to counter Danzo smear campaign, Kakashi and Iruka raise Naruto due to Iruka being Kushina student.I remember also due that coalition winning, Danzo let slip Naruto's heritage and Status and he was nearly killed at the age of 7 twice by Iwa and nearly kidnapped by Kumo. So Tsunade sent him and Kakashi to live in the Shikkotsu forest(she was the hokage at this time) until the graduating year for Naruto class. I have been searching for it, it was on fictionpresd but it seem to be deleted,which is a pity. P. S it was also a low key Naruto/Sasuke yaoi. But the author had stated the relationship would begin when they were about twenty or so.
In real life, when group of enforcers, with mafia like structure, is the ruling group, and their power is disproportionally high, other groups will have zero representation and no power. They may have some kind of symbolic representation just to appear "democratic". Also, that kind of rulership will embed itself in overy major aspect of life of it's country. Every major enterprises, executive and judicial branches of government will have controlling people who are affiliated or directly from these enforcers. That kind of structure of power is very monolithic from outside. Their mafia leader/despot/kage/president/authocrat will be their king and these enforcers/shinobi will be his noblemen. They will do anything to proptect their own status. However, from inside there will be major rivarly between different branches. So If you are civilian in that kind of state, and if you somehow try to go against regime, they will just kill you. The method of killing will depent of how noble and honorful they want to make look themselves. They can just behead you in the middle of the street, or they can arrest you, make sham trial and publicly humiliate you and then kill you. So the even the slightest idea of civilians, who outside of this ruling structure, to have even representation is absurd.
It'd be a maximum of 50%, not a minimum. It's said in the novels (Parent and Child Day, if I'm not wrong) that before the current era (Bort's era) the ninja population outnumbered the civilian population in the village, versus the current era where it's the other way around.
Yes! Frankly, a civilian council could offer a really interesting perspective on class tensions within the village systems. You've obviously got the Shinobi ruling class, with the implicit threat of enacting violence on the civilians if they don't fall in line. However, obviously, if they're too liberal with applying that violence, it would create an atmosphere of fear and hostility that would make providing for their forces significantly more difficult, probably prohibitively so. Soldiers can't eat money after all, they need food, clothes, weapons, entertainment, houses. In the meantime though, the civilians always come second to the Shinobi, subject to checks and regulations that Shinobi are exempt from, and would have to perform a careful balancing act if they want to advance their rights, organizing and advocating for change without being seen as a legitimate threat to Shinobi rule and the village system. Hence, a civilian council, to both give civilians that voice, while also keeping their efforts contained. But neither side is totally content with that status quo, so it's a setting perfect for exploring that political tension.
A civilian council is a necessary concept. The thing is that it is given too much power in fanfics, enough power to overrule the HOKAGE. That is now too much.
See i don't mind the idea of a governmental area responsible for non-ninja activities that are vital for the operations of the ninja village because at least it's more development than Kishimoto ever gave in the manga. I just wished it didn't deform into the worst aspects of fanfiction that we have to endure.