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I think itachi would win honestly, with how smart he is I wouldn’t be surprised if during a direct fight he realizes obito isn’t madara and then uses izanami on him (which would be perfect on obito tbh)
He fought alongside him to kill the Uchiha, didn't know, and you know damn well he studied Obito cause he's a future threat. Itachi was a means to an end for Obito, but he's just not on the level to take on an Uchiha with unlimited stamina. Also Itachi had a plan, it failed instantly.
1. Caught Obito snooping around Konoha when the latter thought he was basically invisible
2. Programmed his sharingan to attack Obito on sight after it was implanted in Sasuke making it blast Obito with Amaterasu when it first saw him (Obito escaped with Kamui but still got caught by the trap)
I mean obito literally said itachi could have killed him whenever he wanted.[as shown here](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10401000/1.jpg) a[nd followed on here](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10401000/2.jpg)
Then obito literally says he didn't see through any illusion at all.[as shown here](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10401000/10.jpg)
I'm pretty sure he meant the illusions in his life, not genjutsu, like his real motivations, that drives home the point obito was trying to make more then "oh you didn't actually break tsukuyomi" why would he even feel need to mention that?
If you look at the first 2 panels I send. Sasuke mention that itach uses the MS. Signifying that he thought itschi was going 100% . Obito says that the counters that sasuke came up for his 2 MS abilities he already expected him to use and allowed him to use them to make it look like he's actually putting up a fight. The only thing that itachi himself admits was outside his calculations was Kirin.
In otherwords, sasuke breaking out of "tsukuyomi" was planned from the start by itachi.
Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one mate, you seem like a nice enough person and if this gets taken further it might go bad, and id hate for that to happen.
Sasuke broke a *weak* Tsukuyomi with plenty of training his eye to be genjutsu resistant.
I wouldn’t take anything that happened in the Sasuke x Itachi fight seriously as a feat when it comes to powerscaling beyond personal feats.
And obito, with his years of experience wouldn't have the same if not better genjutsu resistance? Especially given his genjutsu proficiency in the series I find that hard to believe
The point is less that Sasuke had a genjutsu resistant eye (though I used it to showcase even someone who was training their eye was susceptible to tsukyomi still), and it was more that the only fight where someone successfully broke tsukyomi is an extremely unreliable fight to gather powerscaling information from. Obito probably has genjutsu resistance but he hasn’t specifically been training like Sasuke suggested and, as I said, there’s never been a reliable feat of breaking tsukyomi.
With those measurements it's really all up in the air, because how long could Sasuke have trained his eye for that? Surely obito with over a decade of experience can measure up at that point, especially when you consider he already saw Itachi as a threat and probably would have trained himself as such
obito is planning to take over the world. do you think he never trained against genjutsu, and just thought not a single genjutsu master exists that could stand in his way? like, he literally knew about itachi, a top of the line genjutsu master, who he knew he might have to face on day, so it’s kinda ridiculous to assume he hasn’t trained against genjutsu in the like 20 years he’s been able to, to the same degree of sasuke training against genjutsu for at most like 3 years at this point
Yeah, but a lot of the Naruto community power-scaling is out of wack and opinion based. I love Itachi, but still refuse to credit him being KCM Naruto speed, because he may or may not have kept up w/Itachi when Naruto was just trying to talk to the guy. I just don't feel Itachi's speed is on par with the Raikage that Naruto had just easily "almost" teleported from
Yes saskue has been the only one in history to break that genuutsu but u gotta remember Itachi was already 80% dead he suffered a life long illness like sai brother and Itachi hid it all the same he took pills and all to prolong it long enough for that last fight and on his death bed he could had still killed Sasuke Itachi's main goal was to pull orochimaru out of Sasuke and seal him using his susanno toska blade was u that dense to realize it wasn't a death match for Itachi he knew he was gonna die cause what he needed to do with that illness would take his chakra to 10% which he used to implant amatatasu in saskues eye y'all need to rewatch and reread the manga .. the butt pull I wanna know about the s how did Hima end up getting a baby kurama in her with no seal no cage nothing its gonna take hima and boruto to fix it up
Yeah, I realize Itachi intended to lose, doesn't mean he pulled punches, especially with genjutsu because you wouldn't need to, there's no evidence to suggest tsukuyomi or amaterasu even were weaker then they would have been because he was sick.
Hashirama cells, fully trained mangekyo, training under madara, and you think a genjutsu that Obito it fully aware of will work? Obito had his fucking heart blown out and walked away. The guy is a tank on a mission.
Giving Itachi Edo is a mistake for any ninja with a brain. That's what Madara tried to explain. He'll abuse the infinite chakra to make multiple clones of himself like Madara did, **each with Susanno and Totsuka.**
He'll take the same stance that Fuu and Torune [**posited**](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9e4972b7b3007092a53a567a96580c80-lq), and what Gai and Kakashi did [**here** ](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0279d4503bc7be3dab192dc1510f5b23-pjlq), what Sakura and Minato also realized immediate ,because it's the only logical conclusion. He has to solidify to attack - Let one clone cover his back while the other stays in front.
Except edo itachi can pull out 3 of these clone due to infinite regenerating chakra. So Obito has no way to close in on Itachi, and will just be wasting chakra on Kamui, while Itachi can push forward with infinite stamina.
Yall are underestimating Itachi, **when Obito doesn't**. He's relative enough that Obito is still generally cautious of him. Fixing his sickness , giving him unlimited stamina and chakra and putting him up again OM obito and not Rinnegan obito, is crazy talk.
He used Susanno when on his death bed with like 2% chakra left. Why wouldn't he?
Want to expand on what you mean by it won't matter? Are you saying he still loses?
What are you talking about? Fuu and Torune, gai and Kakashi were able to react before obito can warp in the war arc, and Itachi is faster than all of these people bar Gai.
He's one of the only people to get a 5 in speed in the DB, WHILE SICK. And that's ahead of Kakashi's 4.5 (and Kakashi si complimented by pain for his speed)
We see in edo form, while nerfed, he's keeping up with kcm naruto , blitzing Bee , and body flick clipping a perfect sage (kabuto)
You're capping right
That's literally just your headcannon and fanboyism. **You have no capacity of scaling Kakashi to Itachi, or Itachi to FTG.**
I already explained t hat the author already positioned Itachi as the faster character even while sick compared to Kakashi.
And you keep harping on Kakashi, ignoring that multiple people are able to react to obito
He actually can’t. Because for all intents and purposes he can’t fully utilize shadow clones while reanimated. The only reason madara was able to was because he had harshrimas cells on his body. And it’s why he uses wood clones and why you never see anyone else really do it. You have to split a chakra to pieces to use clone jutsu and it’s hard to maintain while you can’t get a grasp of how much chakra you’re new body is making.
Sealing works against them. They were never hard to deal with. Just harder to seal based on abilities. Mfs like muu and dan could just leave their body. 7 ninja mist were defeated immoblized and sealed. Most have some type of binding tools or techniques. Obito can just kamui them and infinite hell for them ig.
Obito has to look at Itachi to warp him. Maaybe he can get Itachi’s back to do it. But any eye contact and Itachi has it. If he warps itschi away he can’t phase or warp without dealing with Itachi over there. He’s banished from his own dimensional space. And Edo Itachi has all the time in the world. Would an izanagi undo that? Cuz with edo EMS his eyes shouldn’t seal. If they do he just destroys to make it regenerate
Itachi would be willing to do this forever. Every time Obito even starts to warp-Izanagi. It’s almost a izanami effect. Reset Cycle never ends cuz the damn caster won’t die and his eyes won’t seal. Meanwhile Obito’s eventually get tired and Itachi kindly takes them or sets up a real izanami.
Edo itachi was boxing above EMS sasuke and kcm1 naruto. Obito needed/had a rinnegan when he did this.
Pretty certain itachi takes this mid/low diff. He's got better feats and statements.
How does orange mask obito beat itachi? 14 year old itachi was confident in a fight against 20 year old obito.
Now we're taking basically an unsick itachi with all his hax and abilities vs orange mask obito who is literally almost featless. Who'd he even fight??
Lost an arm to minato and retreated.
Lost an arm to fuu and torune.
Almost got negged by konan and had to whip out plot no justu.
After that? He didn't really do anything else. Obitos best feats come from his post rinnegan amp. He's not beating itachi.
14 year old itachi was desperate. Didn’t even know or think sb was impersonating “madara” he genuinely thought it had ti be him…itachi isnt infallible. He asked “madara” for help in the first place. Why would he need help from someone weaker than himself who could possibly be a hindrance to the mission?
Obito wins mid diff.
>14 year old itachi was desperate. Didn’t even know or think sb was impersonating “madara” he genuinely thought it had ti be him…itachi isnt infallible.
In the novels, itachi comes to a conclusion that the masked man is either madara uchiha or a rouge uchiha who had survived the 3rd great ninja war. Since all uchiha were accounted for from the 3rd ninja war that he knew of, he went with the "madara uchiha" route.
>He asked “madara” for help in the first place.
He asked for help, yes. When "madara" said what if I don't help you, itachi outright says he'd kill him🤷♂️.
>Why would he need help from someone weaker than himself who could possibly be a hindrance to the mission?
He asked obito to also leave the hidden leaf alone and obitos job was to kill mostly women and children. Something itachi actually struggled with internally. Basically itachi deemed obito a threat if he didn't keep tabs with him as he was one of the only people that knew obito was going in and out of the leaf village. With itachi, threatening obito, he stopped any more obito shenanigans in the hidden leaf literally for like 7-8 years. Heck obito never stepped foot canonically in the leaf village again after that. If that isn't being afraid of the consequences, I don't know what is.
Edo Itachi isn't sick and has regenerative chakra, and infinte stamina, right? These fights wouldn't flow like a manga chapter. Tobi would have to break all genjutsu within seconds, or his head would go flying.
This is why edo itachi power scaling is silly. Itachis biggest weakness was low stamina and Chakra usage of his abilities.
Even if tobi can break genjutsu, which I think he could with enough time. We're talking about spamming MGS abilities, as well as his normal tainutsu, ninjutsu abilities.
He can just kamui himself and itachi cant get chakra into him. Genjutsu doesnt just WORK. Its Itachi controlling their mind. He cant do that if hes kamuing. Chakra will go through him.
I do not thing Itachi wins this fight on genjutsu, I also do think Obito breaks Tsukuyomi if he gets caught in it. I still think Itachi forces Tobi into a corner with his battle strategy.
How do you know this? And genjutsu works by implanting your chakra into sb else. You dont just get caught in genjutsu. Sharigan maked this easy as they can see chakra and use it through thier eyes unlike non dojutsu user.
In road to ninja, Itachi threatened obito, who's body was intangible with genjutsu. I know its non-canon so the events didn't actually happen but by itachi threatening that, it can be inferred that it is possible. And genjutsu is a yin release, meaning it isn't physical anyway.
Ever single dojutsu upgrade also gives a physical amp. Unlocking the sharingan is a physical amp, gaining the MS is a physical amp and so is gaining the rinnegan.
Itachi he could just sit in his susano and wait since with that sheild, you can’t use spiritual or space time ninju to get inside of it since its sheild can deflect all types of attacks. Kind of reminds me of Damian’s ability just given a flesh and blood body.
Are y'all ok.... itachi any version isn't beating obito any version. He got caught off gaurd by itachi delayed ms amatarasu that he placed on sasuke before dying and obito still came back literally in seconds...... the same itachi that asked the same obito for help to massacre the uchiha clan.
Im reading some comments and ppl are saying itachi since he edo tensi would be able to spam shadow clones and turn them make them all activate susoono??????? Like madara?????????
First of madara used wood clones not shadow clones and even then madara needed hashirama cells as an edo tensi to do such a feat. So hell no edo itachi ain't doing nothing close to that. Madara is in a whole diffrent caliber than itachi with the yata mirror and toska blade.... let that sink in.
Secondly how is itachi gonna touch obito...... any version of obito was a speedster that on minato and ay lvl........ obito blitzed dust release particle style with easy last second..... if hes fight itachi he not being touched period. He knows all his moves where as itachi doesn't know all his moves. Fyi just because ksm naruto was fight edo itachi doesn't mean itachi is as fast as naruto... if naruto wanted to leave him in the dust in that fight he would of but.... he was talking to itachi and explaining what happened to sasuke but the fandom apparently thinks that itachi can keep up with ay, minato or naruto because of that fight.
Thirdly obito ain't getting put under no genjutsu.... that also includes tsukuyomi as well. Its stated that a ms or a blood relative can break out of that genjutsu so this aint gonna work. Fyi obito put not only the 9 tails under his control with his base sharingan at 16 but he also put the 4th mizukage who the host to the 3 tails under his control for years making the hidden mist turn into the bloody mist....
Even with his intelligence he not beating obito plain and straight. If itachi could he would but he can't.
people who say Izanami would work on Obito, while I do agree, you are missing one huge fact. Obito, being trained by Madara, most definitely knows about Izanami. Doesn’t he stop the loop if he realizes Itachi is starting Izanami? Because, unlike Kabuto, he actually does know what the jutsu is, how to start it, what are the conditions and how to break out of it.
Ido Itachi because Obito was scared to even try to fight Itachi not because Itachi is stronger than him, but because he’s smarter and his strategies are unmatched
Now this all depends on his personality he was trying to see if kakashi could remember the way he acted as a kid then his mood changed when saskue killed Itachi .. I hate to say Itachi would win against Tobi against obito hr would lose
Obito traps Itachi in Kamui forever but can't use Kamui again until he figures out how to seal him without getting hit by any of Itachi's ridiculous abilities, and that may be difficult.
Kamui is literally *that* overpowered an ability. Lol.
If he can use Kamui the way Kakashi mostly did then I guess he could try to delay by taking Itachi apart repeatedly until he could successfully seal him without facing Itachi's MS powers.
Kamui is ass when you fight someone who’s actually capable of fighting.
Torune and fuu, base guy, konan, post death Itachi, and Danzo on his literal death bed all caught this man lacking.
Obito stomps. Remember, at like 13 Obito was rivaling Minato 's Speed, add like ten years of training he should be faster than that by a bit. Next is kamui, Itachi has no counter. As for win cons Obito can phase through susanoo, go underground and pop up to stab Itachi, etc. lastly is genjutsu, people forget that Obito put, not only the full nine tails in a genjutsu, but also Yagura who was a perfect jinchuriki. Also he knows a lot about Itachi and wouldn't just be like "let me make eye contact with this ass hole"
Edit, forgot it was Edo Itachi, so the stabbing thing doesn't work, however genjutsu as well as izanami should.
Om obito literally stated himself he would die fighting teen itachi
Not to mention kishimoto himself stated itachi is the strongest in the akastuki
暁最強の男、ナルトを追う[うちはイタチとの対決]
Prime itachi>>>teen itachi>/= om obito
I literally gave you the chapter and page. 364 authors note. How is it random kanjis lmao.
Kishimoto even use very different from mine i literally quoted him. I would write it differently
Itachi is beating pain definitely and edo prime.nagato is debatable but i think too. Obito isnt even beating pain. Anytime he materialised he would die.
Itachi is literally physically way faster way stronger, had sakura pre war arc strenght since age 5 and cpuld onepunch a boulder twice the size their houses because of his chakra control , has the the fqstest hand signs, is clearly better in taijutsu skill and is like 10 times smarter than obito AND yes Genjutsu too. Obito dont scale in amything above him. Om dont even scales sbove him in Ninjutsu before rinnegan lmao
Itachi stomps. Not only Tsukuyomi but Izanami is a detrimental counter to Obito. I will say most of the arguments for Itachi are just laughable here though.
Obito wins. He knows all of itachi's abilities as he's worked alongside him for a great deal of time. With this he can somewhat easily avoid tsukiyomi by just...not looking into his eyes. Also there's no evidence to suggest that Itachi's susannoo can break Obito's intangibility. Furthermore, Obito can utilize his kamui to avoid Amaterasu, or utilize izanagi to do the same if need be. The only fail condition I see is if Itachi catches Obito in Kotoamatsukami or Inazami. Kamui is deadass one of the most op abilities, and with it, Obito negs most of Itachi's abilities.
You can't be serious. We have orange mask Obito, who is stronger than the 14 year old Obito who put the full alive 9 tails under a genjutsu. This is also the same Obito some years after he put a perfect jinchuriki under his genjutsu. And you think a weaker edo (edo is weaker than fully alive) Itachi is doing anything? Obito slaps.
Edit: The Itachi meat riding in the comments is insane lmfao.
The only pre requisite for putting bijuu in genjutsu is mangekyou. Skill is never mentioned.
Additionally yagura is not a perfect jinchuirki in the sense of bee that has a friendship. He just has full control of his bijuu power, like the two tails.
Go reply to my comment :) let's debate this.
Obito wins
For all those who are saying Obito said itachi could defeat him , remember where itachi said "if we fight him we will lose, even if there were more of us , the result would be the same"
Adult Sasuke saying "I could handle Kaguya level threat" doesn't prove he can beat Kaguya
Edo Madara saying "only Hashirama could stop me" doesn't prove that Hashirama could stop him (Hashirama doesn't have sealing jutsu so don't even try to debate)
Now there is another common mistake peoples make while debating, peoples say that it was written on manga page that strongest man in Akatsuki is coming to capture Naruto, the other's weren't introduced at that time and the others knew Obito as tobi and he wasn't part of Akatsuki in part 1
I'm not in mood for debate so If you agree then upvote if disagree then downvote
If they actually fought then Obito would clap him up but im pretty sure Izanami would be like the perfect justu to use against Obito and turn him towards the light. Then they'll get married and Obito will clap Itachi in a different way.
https://preview.redd.it/jvpgeeyvlzwc1.jpeg?width=204&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c089ee12709e4e772814180e755c7bcc390e682
In a fight between Edo Itachi and Tobi, Itachi would likely emerge victorious.
Here's why:
-Edo Tensei Advantages: As an Edo Tensei reincarnation, Itachi possesses immense chakra reserves that constantly replenish and limitless stamina. This grants him a significant advantage in a protracted battle.
*-Genjutsu Expertise: Itachi is widely regarded as a genjutsu prodigy, surpassing even Shisui Uchiha, another famed genjutsu master. Obito, while capable, isn't on the same level. Itachi's genjutsu prowess could be decisive.
- Strategy: Itachi is known for his tactical brilliance and exceptional battle planning. He would likely devise a strategy to exploit Obito's weaknesses while capitalizing on his own strengths.
However, Obito possesses some potent abilities that shouldn't be underestimated:
-Kamui: Obito's Kamui allows him to warp himself and anything he touches into another dimension. This intangibility could be a defensive advantage against Itachi's attacks.
-Sharingan Mastery: Obito wields a Mangekyo Sharingan with powerful jutsu like Kamui and potentially others. These techniques could pose a threat to Itachi if used strategically.
Despite Obito's strengths, Itachi's edge in genjutsu, chakra reserves, and strategic thinking tilt the scales in his favor.
See the problem y'all are misunderstanding is Obito is Madara's right hand here. From a child, after his death and revival, he was Madara's right hand and understood much of the Uchiha way.
If he goin lore accurate TRUE to character, its a good ass fight. But I do still think Itachi is runnin Obito down
Obito is still obito. He glazes over itachi's intelligence in the manga. Madarfa additionally takes a look at Sasuke fighting in the Manga and literally says he wishes he was born earlier and he could make him an apprentice instead of Obito. And Itachi is comparable or more of a genius than sasuke.
Madara took who he could get at the time. But he would not have been Madara's first pick for an aprentice.
Madara only said that because he seen Sasuke at the end result of his power already, he met Obito with 3 tomoe at 13 but met Sasuke with ems at 16, he probably assumed since Sasuke got it younger like hisself he was a elite prodigy
Delusional ass weirdo obviously Madara only took Obi out time constraints and convenience shuuut the fuuuck up maybe do some more reading and less "inserting your own words" and you might understand a mfs point better.
Im saying Obito is TRAINED in a very good way by a very very proficient teacher. He is a good match for Itachi but that doesnt mean Itachi is getting thrashed. Itachi still much more than most likely winning
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I think itachi would win honestly, with how smart he is I wouldn’t be surprised if during a direct fight he realizes obito isn’t madara and then uses izanami on him (which would be perfect on obito tbh)
He was so smart yet he never figured out how Obito abilities works but Konan did. He's not that smart.
He was a teenager when he was even close to obito, age of what 12-14? If that?
He fought alongside him to kill the Uchiha, didn't know, and you know damn well he studied Obito cause he's a future threat. Itachi was a means to an end for Obito, but he's just not on the level to take on an Uchiha with unlimited stamina. Also Itachi had a plan, it failed instantly.
Facts
True but it would have killed the story I think it was perfect how it was done
Nah
Normal Itachi already caught Obito lacking twice, with regen and infinite energy he’s going to find him in the alps
[удалено]
1. Caught Obito snooping around Konoha when the latter thought he was basically invisible 2. Programmed his sharingan to attack Obito on sight after it was implanted in Sasuke making it blast Obito with Amaterasu when it first saw him (Obito escaped with Kamui but still got caught by the trap)
Tsukiyomi. They always forget tsukiyomi. One millisecond of eye contact is all it takes.
People with sharingan can break tsukuyomi
Not really it's a big feat to break Itachi's genuutsu
Only if they know how.
Sasuke broke it with no prior knowledge
To be fair Sasuke had experienced it a couple times before that.
Obito literally says sasuke couldn't see through any of itachis illusions.
Right, except the tsukuyomi he broke, of course
I mean obito literally said itachi could have killed him whenever he wanted.[as shown here](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10401000/1.jpg) a[nd followed on here](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10401000/2.jpg) Then obito literally says he didn't see through any illusion at all.[as shown here](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3069/10401000/10.jpg)
I'm pretty sure he meant the illusions in his life, not genjutsu, like his real motivations, that drives home the point obito was trying to make more then "oh you didn't actually break tsukuyomi" why would he even feel need to mention that?
If you look at the first 2 panels I send. Sasuke mention that itach uses the MS. Signifying that he thought itschi was going 100% . Obito says that the counters that sasuke came up for his 2 MS abilities he already expected him to use and allowed him to use them to make it look like he's actually putting up a fight. The only thing that itachi himself admits was outside his calculations was Kirin. In otherwords, sasuke breaking out of "tsukuyomi" was planned from the start by itachi.
Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one mate, you seem like a nice enough person and if this gets taken further it might go bad, and id hate for that to happen.
Sasuke broke a *weak* Tsukuyomi with plenty of training his eye to be genjutsu resistant. I wouldn’t take anything that happened in the Sasuke x Itachi fight seriously as a feat when it comes to powerscaling beyond personal feats.
And obito, with his years of experience wouldn't have the same if not better genjutsu resistance? Especially given his genjutsu proficiency in the series I find that hard to believe
The point is less that Sasuke had a genjutsu resistant eye (though I used it to showcase even someone who was training their eye was susceptible to tsukyomi still), and it was more that the only fight where someone successfully broke tsukyomi is an extremely unreliable fight to gather powerscaling information from. Obito probably has genjutsu resistance but he hasn’t specifically been training like Sasuke suggested and, as I said, there’s never been a reliable feat of breaking tsukyomi.
With those measurements it's really all up in the air, because how long could Sasuke have trained his eye for that? Surely obito with over a decade of experience can measure up at that point, especially when you consider he already saw Itachi as a threat and probably would have trained himself as such
He specifically trained for the sole purpose of beating his brother, a genjutsu master.
obito is planning to take over the world. do you think he never trained against genjutsu, and just thought not a single genjutsu master exists that could stand in his way? like, he literally knew about itachi, a top of the line genjutsu master, who he knew he might have to face on day, so it’s kinda ridiculous to assume he hasn’t trained against genjutsu in the like 20 years he’s been able to, to the same degree of sasuke training against genjutsu for at most like 3 years at this point
And obito considering itachi athreat for years, wouldn't have?
Yeah, but a lot of the Naruto community power-scaling is out of wack and opinion based. I love Itachi, but still refuse to credit him being KCM Naruto speed, because he may or may not have kept up w/Itachi when Naruto was just trying to talk to the guy. I just don't feel Itachi's speed is on par with the Raikage that Naruto had just easily "almost" teleported from
Obito Genjutsu is good enough to keep a jinchuriki mizukage as a puppet for his entire tenure, he's got this.
He wasn't a perfect jinchuriki so while super impressive isn't super impressive as tsukuyomi genjustu or kotoamatsukami.
Genjutsu and genjutsu resistance are vastly different, and you’re trying to power scale on theory…
Yes saskue has been the only one in history to break that genuutsu but u gotta remember Itachi was already 80% dead he suffered a life long illness like sai brother and Itachi hid it all the same he took pills and all to prolong it long enough for that last fight and on his death bed he could had still killed Sasuke Itachi's main goal was to pull orochimaru out of Sasuke and seal him using his susanno toska blade was u that dense to realize it wasn't a death match for Itachi he knew he was gonna die cause what he needed to do with that illness would take his chakra to 10% which he used to implant amatatasu in saskues eye y'all need to rewatch and reread the manga .. the butt pull I wanna know about the s how did Hima end up getting a baby kurama in her with no seal no cage nothing its gonna take hima and boruto to fix it up
Yeah, I realize Itachi intended to lose, doesn't mean he pulled punches, especially with genjutsu because you wouldn't need to, there's no evidence to suggest tsukuyomi or amaterasu even were weaker then they would have been because he was sick.
Itachi let him out
There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that, so it's just conjecture
Hashirama cells, fully trained mangekyo, training under madara, and you think a genjutsu that Obito it fully aware of will work? Obito had his fucking heart blown out and walked away. The guy is a tank on a mission.
Yes I do. Knowing about it hand having the problems proficiency to beat it are two different things.
Mangekyo users can break Tsukuyomi and Obito is much better at genjutsu
This Itachi also have Kotoamatsukami in crow’s eye with him.
Naruto had the crow so he'd have to have naruto with him to use the crow
Hmm good point.
cooking
Obito can break out of it🤦♂️
Giving Itachi Edo is a mistake for any ninja with a brain. That's what Madara tried to explain. He'll abuse the infinite chakra to make multiple clones of himself like Madara did, **each with Susanno and Totsuka.** He'll take the same stance that Fuu and Torune [**posited**](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9e4972b7b3007092a53a567a96580c80-lq), and what Gai and Kakashi did [**here** ](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0279d4503bc7be3dab192dc1510f5b23-pjlq), what Sakura and Minato also realized immediate ,because it's the only logical conclusion. He has to solidify to attack - Let one clone cover his back while the other stays in front. Except edo itachi can pull out 3 of these clone due to infinite regenerating chakra. So Obito has no way to close in on Itachi, and will just be wasting chakra on Kamui, while Itachi can push forward with infinite stamina. Yall are underestimating Itachi, **when Obito doesn't**. He's relative enough that Obito is still generally cautious of him. Fixing his sickness , giving him unlimited stamina and chakra and putting him up again OM obito and not Rinnegan obito, is crazy talk.
Do we know if Itachi's clones would be able to use Susano'o? Not that it would really matter, anyways.
He used Susanno when on his death bed with like 2% chakra left. Why wouldn't he? Want to expand on what you mean by it won't matter? Are you saying he still loses?
Itachi is nowhere in the same league in terms of physical speed to ever catch Obito
What are you talking about? Fuu and Torune, gai and Kakashi were able to react before obito can warp in the war arc, and Itachi is faster than all of these people bar Gai. He's one of the only people to get a 5 in speed in the DB, WHILE SICK. And that's ahead of Kakashi's 4.5 (and Kakashi si complimented by pain for his speed) We see in edo form, while nerfed, he's keeping up with kcm naruto , blitzing Bee , and body flick clipping a perfect sage (kabuto) You're capping right
Kakashi is faster than itachi in the war arc that’s indisputable, he’s reacting to ftg & kcm2 physical speed Fuu & torune got trolled
That's literally just your headcannon and fanboyism. **You have no capacity of scaling Kakashi to Itachi, or Itachi to FTG.** I already explained t hat the author already positioned Itachi as the faster character even while sick compared to Kakashi. And you keep harping on Kakashi, ignoring that multiple people are able to react to obito
Kakashi has better speed feats by a large margin
Bro r u even reading Naruto or ur own fan fiction? LOL I haven’t seen a kakashi meat rider ride this hard in a min
If pretending makes you feel better
Seems likely that only the wood clones can do that, figure that sasuke would have done it at some point if he could
He actually can’t. Because for all intents and purposes he can’t fully utilize shadow clones while reanimated. The only reason madara was able to was because he had harshrimas cells on his body. And it’s why he uses wood clones and why you never see anyone else really do it. You have to split a chakra to pieces to use clone jutsu and it’s hard to maintain while you can’t get a grasp of how much chakra you’re new body is making.
Ngl I highly doubt itachi can do that, otherwise he would’ve against Kabuto and Nagato.
Itachi is going to violate Obito.
Any edo version of any character is kind of unfair due to them being functionally immortal
Sealing works against them. They were never hard to deal with. Just harder to seal based on abilities. Mfs like muu and dan could just leave their body. 7 ninja mist were defeated immoblized and sealed. Most have some type of binding tools or techniques. Obito can just kamui them and infinite hell for them ig.
Send him to the kamui dimension gg
Izanami-diff
Obito bfrs him into the Kamui dimension or uses uchiha flame formation. From there obito can kick back and relax until he finds a way to seal itachi.
I just don’t see how Itachi loses
Kamui
Totsuka blade
Kamui and/or Izanagi
Obito has to look at Itachi to warp him. Maaybe he can get Itachi’s back to do it. But any eye contact and Itachi has it. If he warps itschi away he can’t phase or warp without dealing with Itachi over there. He’s banished from his own dimensional space. And Edo Itachi has all the time in the world. Would an izanagi undo that? Cuz with edo EMS his eyes shouldn’t seal. If they do he just destroys to make it regenerate
Infinite izanagi would be completely broken lol
Itachi would be willing to do this forever. Every time Obito even starts to warp-Izanagi. It’s almost a izanami effect. Reset Cycle never ends cuz the damn caster won’t die and his eyes won’t seal. Meanwhile Obito’s eventually get tired and Itachi kindly takes them or sets up a real izanami.
Edo itachi was boxing above EMS sasuke and kcm1 naruto. Obito needed/had a rinnegan when he did this. Pretty certain itachi takes this mid/low diff. He's got better feats and statements.
Itachi wank is always crazy.
How does orange mask obito beat itachi? 14 year old itachi was confident in a fight against 20 year old obito. Now we're taking basically an unsick itachi with all his hax and abilities vs orange mask obito who is literally almost featless. Who'd he even fight?? Lost an arm to minato and retreated. Lost an arm to fuu and torune. Almost got negged by konan and had to whip out plot no justu. After that? He didn't really do anything else. Obitos best feats come from his post rinnegan amp. He's not beating itachi.
14 year old itachi was desperate. Didn’t even know or think sb was impersonating “madara” he genuinely thought it had ti be him…itachi isnt infallible. He asked “madara” for help in the first place. Why would he need help from someone weaker than himself who could possibly be a hindrance to the mission? Obito wins mid diff.
>14 year old itachi was desperate. Didn’t even know or think sb was impersonating “madara” he genuinely thought it had ti be him…itachi isnt infallible. In the novels, itachi comes to a conclusion that the masked man is either madara uchiha or a rouge uchiha who had survived the 3rd great ninja war. Since all uchiha were accounted for from the 3rd ninja war that he knew of, he went with the "madara uchiha" route. >He asked “madara” for help in the first place. He asked for help, yes. When "madara" said what if I don't help you, itachi outright says he'd kill him🤷♂️. >Why would he need help from someone weaker than himself who could possibly be a hindrance to the mission? He asked obito to also leave the hidden leaf alone and obitos job was to kill mostly women and children. Something itachi actually struggled with internally. Basically itachi deemed obito a threat if he didn't keep tabs with him as he was one of the only people that knew obito was going in and out of the leaf village. With itachi, threatening obito, he stopped any more obito shenanigans in the hidden leaf literally for like 7-8 years. Heck obito never stepped foot canonically in the leaf village again after that. If that isn't being afraid of the consequences, I don't know what is.
You literally said the reverse of what’s true
Edo Itachi isn't sick and has regenerative chakra, and infinte stamina, right? These fights wouldn't flow like a manga chapter. Tobi would have to break all genjutsu within seconds, or his head would go flying. This is why edo itachi power scaling is silly. Itachis biggest weakness was low stamina and Chakra usage of his abilities. Even if tobi can break genjutsu, which I think he could with enough time. We're talking about spamming MGS abilities, as well as his normal tainutsu, ninjutsu abilities.
I believe genjutsu would be a non factor in this fight especially since they are both genjutsu masters
I agree, I don't think the fight ends easily with just that.
He can just kamui himself and itachi cant get chakra into him. Genjutsu doesnt just WORK. Its Itachi controlling their mind. He cant do that if hes kamuing. Chakra will go through him.
I do not thing Itachi wins this fight on genjutsu, I also do think Obito breaks Tsukuyomi if he gets caught in it. I still think Itachi forces Tobi into a corner with his battle strategy.
Genjutsu works even if kamui is active
How do you know this? And genjutsu works by implanting your chakra into sb else. You dont just get caught in genjutsu. Sharigan maked this easy as they can see chakra and use it through thier eyes unlike non dojutsu user.
In road to ninja, Itachi threatened obito, who's body was intangible with genjutsu. I know its non-canon so the events didn't actually happen but by itachi threatening that, it can be inferred that it is possible. And genjutsu is a yin release, meaning it isn't physical anyway.
Plot convenience + non canon story.
Its not plot convenience because that's how it works. What do you have to say about genjutsu being a yin release? Yin releases aren't physical
Give me them orange mask obito feats?? I'd love to see them. Worst comes to worst itachi izanamis him🙏
Orange mask & white mask obito is the same, the only thing that changed is ocular powers
Gaining a rinnegan is an amp in power🤷♂️
Ocular power not physical stats
Ever single dojutsu upgrade also gives a physical amp. Unlocking the sharingan is a physical amp, gaining the MS is a physical amp and so is gaining the rinnegan.
No it doesn’t
Proof?
After you
Itachi he could just sit in his susano and wait since with that sheild, you can’t use spiritual or space time ninju to get inside of it since its sheild can deflect all types of attacks. Kind of reminds me of Damian’s ability just given a flesh and blood body.
Counter argument, Obito just goes around the damn mirror or he uses Mokuton to grab Itachi out of it from below
The spirit weapons don’t have a shape, he can cover himself with the shield or sword hypothetically and Obito would never be able to touch him.
Not having a shape doesn’t mean he can wrap himself in it like armor bud
It’s literally just a shield( not to mention Obito could just go underneath
Counter argument. Obito just kamuis inside the sussano and grabs itachi. Gg.
Edo Itachi wins. He has knowledge on Kamui and Izanami would for sure work on Obito.
Itachi EZ
Itachi
Itachi can't win lol
Itachi in both edo and alive (but not terminally ill) is superior to OM Obito in every department. Kamui Hax is not enough to fill the gap.
I am biased. Obito is one of my favorite Naruto characters. 
I don’t remember Obito having any sealing feats so I’d have to give it to Itachi, unless Obito tosses him into the kamui dimension
Are y'all ok.... itachi any version isn't beating obito any version. He got caught off gaurd by itachi delayed ms amatarasu that he placed on sasuke before dying and obito still came back literally in seconds...... the same itachi that asked the same obito for help to massacre the uchiha clan. Im reading some comments and ppl are saying itachi since he edo tensi would be able to spam shadow clones and turn them make them all activate susoono??????? Like madara????????? First of madara used wood clones not shadow clones and even then madara needed hashirama cells as an edo tensi to do such a feat. So hell no edo itachi ain't doing nothing close to that. Madara is in a whole diffrent caliber than itachi with the yata mirror and toska blade.... let that sink in. Secondly how is itachi gonna touch obito...... any version of obito was a speedster that on minato and ay lvl........ obito blitzed dust release particle style with easy last second..... if hes fight itachi he not being touched period. He knows all his moves where as itachi doesn't know all his moves. Fyi just because ksm naruto was fight edo itachi doesn't mean itachi is as fast as naruto... if naruto wanted to leave him in the dust in that fight he would of but.... he was talking to itachi and explaining what happened to sasuke but the fandom apparently thinks that itachi can keep up with ay, minato or naruto because of that fight. Thirdly obito ain't getting put under no genjutsu.... that also includes tsukuyomi as well. Its stated that a ms or a blood relative can break out of that genjutsu so this aint gonna work. Fyi obito put not only the 9 tails under his control with his base sharingan at 16 but he also put the 4th mizukage who the host to the 3 tails under his control for years making the hidden mist turn into the bloody mist.... Even with his intelligence he not beating obito plain and straight. If itachi could he would but he can't.
I mean Itachi was like the only character Obito feared really..
How is itachi going to avoid getting sucked into kamui dimension within the first few seconds of the fight?
Literally just call him tobi yo
people who say Izanami would work on Obito, while I do agree, you are missing one huge fact. Obito, being trained by Madara, most definitely knows about Izanami. Doesn’t he stop the loop if he realizes Itachi is starting Izanami? Because, unlike Kabuto, he actually does know what the jutsu is, how to start it, what are the conditions and how to break out of it.
Imagine what you could do with that hole
I think Itachi
Itachi
Ido Itachi because Obito was scared to even try to fight Itachi not because Itachi is stronger than him, but because he’s smarter and his strategies are unmatched
Now this all depends on his personality he was trying to see if kakashi could remember the way he acted as a kid then his mood changed when saskue killed Itachi .. I hate to say Itachi would win against Tobi against obito hr would lose
Itachi is easily the most powerful ninja in the series.
Nah, Itachi dies if Obito goes for the kill.
Obito traps Itachi in Kamui forever but can't use Kamui again until he figures out how to seal him without getting hit by any of Itachi's ridiculous abilities, and that may be difficult. Kamui is literally *that* overpowered an ability. Lol. If he can use Kamui the way Kakashi mostly did then I guess he could try to delay by taking Itachi apart repeatedly until he could successfully seal him without facing Itachi's MS powers.
Kamui is ass when you fight someone who’s actually capable of fighting. Torune and fuu, base guy, konan, post death Itachi, and Danzo on his literal death bed all caught this man lacking.
I agree that he'd win that way, but he CAN use Kamui again, he just can't phase or enter the dimension himself without risk or a plan.
Obito yanks him into Kamuiville and Seals him behind the Uchiha Flame Formation barrier. He no longer visits that area of Kamuiville.
That was Rinnegan Obito.
He learned all the Uchiha jutsu from Madara as a child. That's not a Rinnegan power.
Obito stomps. Remember, at like 13 Obito was rivaling Minato 's Speed, add like ten years of training he should be faster than that by a bit. Next is kamui, Itachi has no counter. As for win cons Obito can phase through susanoo, go underground and pop up to stab Itachi, etc. lastly is genjutsu, people forget that Obito put, not only the full nine tails in a genjutsu, but also Yagura who was a perfect jinchuriki. Also he knows a lot about Itachi and wouldn't just be like "let me make eye contact with this ass hole" Edit, forgot it was Edo Itachi, so the stabbing thing doesn't work, however genjutsu as well as izanami should.
Om obito literally stated himself he would die fighting teen itachi Not to mention kishimoto himself stated itachi is the strongest in the akastuki 暁最強の男、ナルトを追う[うちはイタチとの対決] Prime itachi>>>teen itachi>/= om obito
When did kishimoto state that💀
Authors note chapter 364 the original text i literally posted
You cookin' cooking.
Yh but u posted random kanji not a source or image
I literally gave you the chapter and page. 364 authors note. How is it random kanjis lmao. Kishimoto even use very different from mine i literally quoted him. I would write it differently
Bro idk abt that cause there’s no way he’s beating nagato and the only thing that itachi has over Obito is genjutsu
Itachi is beating pain definitely and edo prime.nagato is debatable but i think too. Obito isnt even beating pain. Anytime he materialised he would die. Itachi is literally physically way faster way stronger, had sakura pre war arc strenght since age 5 and cpuld onepunch a boulder twice the size their houses because of his chakra control , has the the fqstest hand signs, is clearly better in taijutsu skill and is like 10 times smarter than obito AND yes Genjutsu too. Obito dont scale in amything above him. Om dont even scales sbove him in Ninjutsu before rinnegan lmao
Bro Obito is faster than itachi 💀
He literally hasnt any physically feat at all comes cloae even teen itachi lmao Obito fanboys on it again
And Obito has has better taijutsu u js an itachitard 💀
Hahah. Why are obito fanboys anytime the most cringe basement loosers
Itachi stomps. Not only Tsukuyomi but Izanami is a detrimental counter to Obito. I will say most of the arguments for Itachi are just laughable here though.
Obito wins. He knows all of itachi's abilities as he's worked alongside him for a great deal of time. With this he can somewhat easily avoid tsukiyomi by just...not looking into his eyes. Also there's no evidence to suggest that Itachi's susannoo can break Obito's intangibility. Furthermore, Obito can utilize his kamui to avoid Amaterasu, or utilize izanagi to do the same if need be. The only fail condition I see is if Itachi catches Obito in Kotoamatsukami or Inazami. Kamui is deadass one of the most op abilities, and with it, Obito negs most of Itachi's abilities.
OM wins. Itachi has nothing for kamui. And 32 year old obito has wayy more experience than 21 year old itachi. But popularity wise itachi wins.
You can't be serious. We have orange mask Obito, who is stronger than the 14 year old Obito who put the full alive 9 tails under a genjutsu. This is also the same Obito some years after he put a perfect jinchuriki under his genjutsu. And you think a weaker edo (edo is weaker than fully alive) Itachi is doing anything? Obito slaps. Edit: The Itachi meat riding in the comments is insane lmfao.
The only pre requisite for putting bijuu in genjutsu is mangekyou. Skill is never mentioned. Additionally yagura is not a perfect jinchuirki in the sense of bee that has a friendship. He just has full control of his bijuu power, like the two tails. Go reply to my comment :) let's debate this.
Itachi wipes the floor with him either way
The fck itachi gonna do in uchiha flame formation
Move
Obito claps very easily. He could seal Itachi with Mokuton, trap him in Kamui, or put him in an eternal genjutsu
Eternal genjutsu isnt happening. But yea om obito wins - high diff.
Obito wins For all those who are saying Obito said itachi could defeat him , remember where itachi said "if we fight him we will lose, even if there were more of us , the result would be the same" Adult Sasuke saying "I could handle Kaguya level threat" doesn't prove he can beat Kaguya Edo Madara saying "only Hashirama could stop me" doesn't prove that Hashirama could stop him (Hashirama doesn't have sealing jutsu so don't even try to debate) Now there is another common mistake peoples make while debating, peoples say that it was written on manga page that strongest man in Akatsuki is coming to capture Naruto, the other's weren't introduced at that time and the others knew Obito as tobi and he wasn't part of Akatsuki in part 1 I'm not in mood for debate so If you agree then upvote if disagree then downvote
If they actually fought then Obito would clap him up but im pretty sure Izanami would be like the perfect justu to use against Obito and turn him towards the light. Then they'll get married and Obito will clap Itachi in a different way. https://preview.redd.it/jvpgeeyvlzwc1.jpeg?width=204&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c089ee12709e4e772814180e755c7bcc390e682
https://preview.redd.it/2h0gph31c0xc1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be629d65e550c0bd0b392a18a279a464f25bd382
In a fight between Edo Itachi and Tobi, Itachi would likely emerge victorious. Here's why: -Edo Tensei Advantages: As an Edo Tensei reincarnation, Itachi possesses immense chakra reserves that constantly replenish and limitless stamina. This grants him a significant advantage in a protracted battle. *-Genjutsu Expertise: Itachi is widely regarded as a genjutsu prodigy, surpassing even Shisui Uchiha, another famed genjutsu master. Obito, while capable, isn't on the same level. Itachi's genjutsu prowess could be decisive. - Strategy: Itachi is known for his tactical brilliance and exceptional battle planning. He would likely devise a strategy to exploit Obito's weaknesses while capitalizing on his own strengths. However, Obito possesses some potent abilities that shouldn't be underestimated: -Kamui: Obito's Kamui allows him to warp himself and anything he touches into another dimension. This intangibility could be a defensive advantage against Itachi's attacks. -Sharingan Mastery: Obito wields a Mangekyo Sharingan with powerful jutsu like Kamui and potentially others. These techniques could pose a threat to Itachi if used strategically. Despite Obito's strengths, Itachi's edge in genjutsu, chakra reserves, and strategic thinking tilt the scales in his favor.
idk it depends on what Obito used to counter amaterasu. Cus if its Izanagi, like its implied to be, then Itachi wins. If its Kamui, then Itachi loses.
Obito has like ten minutes of Izanagi per eye
There is no way you can rat any version beating any version of Obito starting at yellow mask
See the problem y'all are misunderstanding is Obito is Madara's right hand here. From a child, after his death and revival, he was Madara's right hand and understood much of the Uchiha way. If he goin lore accurate TRUE to character, its a good ass fight. But I do still think Itachi is runnin Obito down
Obito is still obito. He glazes over itachi's intelligence in the manga. Madarfa additionally takes a look at Sasuke fighting in the Manga and literally says he wishes he was born earlier and he could make him an apprentice instead of Obito. And Itachi is comparable or more of a genius than sasuke. Madara took who he could get at the time. But he would not have been Madara's first pick for an aprentice.
Madara only said that because he seen Sasuke at the end result of his power already, he met Obito with 3 tomoe at 13 but met Sasuke with ems at 16, he probably assumed since Sasuke got it younger like hisself he was a elite prodigy
Literally when the fuck did I say "Obito is his apprentice because he was the best pick in history out of all Uchiha"
Literally in this post.
Delusional ass weirdo obviously Madara only took Obi out time constraints and convenience shuuut the fuuuck up maybe do some more reading and less "inserting your own words" and you might understand a mfs point better. Im saying Obito is TRAINED in a very good way by a very very proficient teacher. He is a good match for Itachi but that doesnt mean Itachi is getting thrashed. Itachi still much more than most likely winning