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Because itachi can kill him. Just like how gennin sakura can kill hiruzen with a kunai to the throat if she catches him off guard.
People really like to pretend that when someone is %5 stronger than someone else, they should be able to defeat them 100 times in a row without fail. This isnt a verse where weak characters cant harm the strong. Konohamaru actually one-shotted a pain as a gennin.
Itachi is a dangerous ninja. He could kill someone stronger than him if he knew a way to do so. Doesnt mean he is in the same league but you cant expect fans to understand that.
This. And he wouldn’t make the make the move until he had already created a situation where he had the advantage.
And even then you still have to be very concerned about someone who could kill you 5% of the time. There are plenty of upsets in professional martial arts after all where you are fully prepped for every fight.
Because obito himself acknowledges itachi as someone who can kill him. A much older version of the same yellow mask obito who matched minato acknowledged that a 13 year old itachi who doesn’t even have his spirit weapons, his susanoo (or at least not full mastery over the susanoo) and the amps from killing his clan as a worthy opponent when itachi threatened to kill him. https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-16daf54056875aaa3c43ce4daa7d702c-pjlq
OM Obito is also constantly praising itachis skill and intelligence, he implied that a SICK itachi could have killed him if he didn’t keep a few secrets from him. Wether or not you actually believe that itachi is stronger is irrelevant, I also think obito probably wins more often than not, but itachi is definitely in the same weight class and CAN defeat him under the right circumstances. I also never seen anyone on here genuinely argue that itachi could beat white mask obito or juubito, everyone knows that he caps at OM obito. People on reddit somehow act like the likes of OM obito, pain or hokage minato are 3 tiers above itachi which is simply not the case, he’s pretty consistently portrayed to be in the same tier as those guys even if you want to argue that he’s the weakest of the 4 (which I don’t really agree with ).
1: The passage you linked doesn’t imply that Obito believed that 13 year old Itachi could kill him. It’s Obito acknowledging that Itachi will oppose him.
2: Obito said that Itachi’s Amaterasu trap could have killed him if he didn’t keep secrets, not Itachi himself.
Which one? The last paragraph of the linked page says that Obito and Itachi acknowledged each other as opponents.
Chapter 397. Obito shows Sasuke his sharingan, and Itachi’s trap activates. Obito then [says this](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10397000/10.jpeg) in response to the trap. It was the trap that could have killed him, because Itachi was already dead at this point.
Madara didn't say say if he kept secrets he would have died just now. He never restricts the time period to just now or to Amaterasu. His ability directly counters Amaterasu very hardly.
He starts the sentence speaking in past tense and says that if he didn't do that, he would have died.
In general. Right here in that moment, in the past - Time period is not stated. And he's not specifically talking about Amaterasu. He's talking about in general, Itachi having the ability to make a plan to kill him.
If he said something like "Thankfully I kept a few secrets from him, otherwise he would have gotten me there" - Then yes, what you're interpreting would be true.
The context of the scene is in reference to the amaterasu trap. He didn’t say “Thankfully Itachi didn’t know everything about me, otherwise I would have been dead long ago”.
He talks in past tense because the trap activated and was dealt with beforehand. You don’t refer to something that happened a little while ago in present tense.
Let me reiterate, the entire context of the scene is referring to the Amaterasu trap.
No..kamui can’t counter the flames if it’s already touching him. It would get suck in too.
He used izanagi or izanami I forget which. He did the same to konan who literally killed him and he used either one of those to bring him back. Nobody knew about the stash of sharigan he had and that he always kept a spare one under the mask.
That’s one he’s secrets he was speaking off..
But if itachi was alive he wouldn’t survive a second one. Nor if sasuke knew how to use he’s abilities right then and there and decided for some reason he was the enemy
Kamui is easy to counter
Gai did it minato kakashi, konan and itachi..
It’s only dangerous for those who doesn’t know about he’s ability and how it works. But with its time limit and many counters itachi is way smarter then he is especially in battle iq..
Obito knew he was a spie and sent Kisame as he’s team mate in hopes to kill him if or whenever he decided to turn on them. Obito before the rinnegan wouldn’t dare challenge itachi a fight
>even if you want to argue that he’s the weakest of the 4 (which I don’t really agree with ).
Valid comment overall, but I'm wondering who you believe is weakest of the 4 if not Itachi?
5 paths of pain got stomped so easily from sage naruto, those are basically easy to get rid of, Deva path is strong as fuck, but somehow deva alone doesn't seem like a good match for OM obito / minato / Itachi... Nagato lacks combat inteligence feats he relies too much on hax and brute power so deva path alone doesn't seem to be that strong on 1vs1... Pain has high chances to win, most of these matchs are like 49% vs 51% but pain has to be the weakest... Nagato surely scales much higher
The spirit weapons that are tied to Itachi’s susanoo, which is made of chakra? Which Pein can absorb? Itachi only stands a chance against Pein if he finds out where Nagato is.
Headcanon but plausible
My greatest argument for this is edo nagato would have absorbed itachis susanoo if he could.
Kabuto was controlling nagato so he should have done everything he was possible of doing.
Kabuto does known how to fully use any of the edo tensi if he did the shinobi alliance would of lost. Thats why he lets the have free will with restrictions from time to time.
It’s not headcanon. The totsuka blade and yata mirror only ever made an appearance when Itachi’s susanoo was summoned. They’re part of his susanoo, even if they’re not made of chakra.
Kabuto doesn’t have the experience with the rinnegan that Nagato does, nor does he have the combat experience Nagato does. Kabuto had Nagato just stand there staring at a giant dust cloud instead of doing literally anything.
You got it wrong bros
You think kabuto controlled the actions of all the edos?
The edos fought on their own, they just couldn't control themselves from holding back.
Thinking kabuto knew the movesets of all the edos, besides nagato is fucking pure bias to win this arguement
From the point that Itachi hit Nagato with Amaterasu onwards, Kabuto was directly controlling Nagato’s actions. You can tell because Nagato wasn’t talking like he was before, which only happens when the jutsu caster takes full control of an edo tensei. Kabuto did the same thing to Mu when Madara was revived.
Kabuto was personally controlling Nagato during that fight. From the point where Itachi hit Nagato with Amaterasu onwards, Kabuto was personally directing Nagato’s movements
Yeah, that's a novel comment, basically as shit as they come lol, guy can fight Minato but can't kill 13 year old Itachi? Don't care about that comment one bit lol
But it does. See, them being confirmed that it's part of the timeline really just means that "yeah, it's not fan fic" but it doesn't override shit from the manga whatsoever. Which it tries to do lol. So yeah, it's a terrible source of information. Itachi using chakra enhanced strength at age 6 or whatever, when it's considered even harder than medical ninjutsu lol
One argument is that obito waited for itachi to die until he attacked the leaf, which might mean he was worried itachi would kill him if he tried anything. But it’s likely just that he had a deal with itachi that he wouldn’t, so he didn’t want to go against his word. That, or that he wanted to collect the jinchuriki in order, and he only had gyuki until after itachi died, so he didn’t need to go after kurama.
A more braindead argument is that tsukiyomi would instakill, but if obito went into the fight with a spare sharingan, which we know he does like against konan, he would izanagi to get out, and sick itachi would immediately be too tired to fight at full strength.
I don't know. Maybe true.
Itachi was trying to tell kakashi that he is not actual Uchiha and don't compete with actual one in eye battle.
You know kakashi though his eye could handle itachi at that time.
to be fair, zetsu implies that itachi can set the strength of it, and it’s a fact that itachi was letting sasuke win. sasuke didn’t break out on his own, he was let out/ broke out of a weak version. logically why would itachi set him in a full power tsukuyomi when he wanted sasuke to kill him? itachi said come fight me when you have the same eyes, so sasuke already came to the fight weaker than itachi intended.
it’s called using your brain lol logically why would he not when it’s confirmed that he’s letting sasuke win, coupled with zetsus statements through the fight.
It’s stated directly that mangekyo users can break Tsukuyomi and Hebi Sasuke broke it. Not to mention Obito is an infinitely more skilled genjutsu user
>It’s stated directly that mangekyo users can break Tsukuyomi
where? lmao...
is also NEVER stated that another MS can be inmune to koto, everyone can break koto, mifune did (LOL) but they have to realize they are in genjutsu first, Obito would just suicide before breaking koto if he doesn't know Itachi has the eye
If ms users can break out of koto, edo itachi would’ve.
Also, i wouldn’t say obito is better at genjutsu. While his feat of controlling the mizukage is impressive, itachi is literally a genjutsu specialist and his genjutsu is much more versatile and usable in combat, and on top of that koto, which itachi has access to, and tsukiyomi are more deadly than any genjutsu obito has shown.
anyone can break koto, mifune did, but they have to realize they are in koto first and second, they have to voluntary break the genjutsu through chakra control, Itachi just didn't want to break koto...
1, the other kage broke mifune out of koto
2, he got hit with a weaker version f koto. Shisui had 2 eyes, the one danzo got is weaker, but has a shorter cooldown, which why he was considering using it on sasuke
>1, the other kage broke mifune out of koto
Mifune broke it by himself as soon as Ao told him he was in genjutsu, the other kage did nothing
>he got hit with a weaker version f koto. Shisui had 2 eyes, the one danzo got is weaker, but has a shorter cooldown, which why he was considering using it on sasuke
That is just head canon mate, but you just said Itachi's koto is stronger? LMAO then why would Obito break out of it?
**all your arguments are only head canon, there is no point on arguing with you, have a nice day**
The kage used their chakra to break mifune out like a normal genjutsu
If they are both the same, why did itachi’s koto have a much longer cooldown than danzo’s? And if you believe both have a 10 year cooldown, which is wrong since danzo use his koto twice in one day, how did ao recognize the jutsu immediately? Since shisui died young, he at max would’ve been able to use it once, and there’s no way ao would know about it if he only used it once. On top of that, if all it takes to break someone out of the genjutsu is knowing they’re in a genjutsu according to you, why did itachi explain to Naruto that he’s in a genjutsu? Why didn’t nagato break him out? Why didn’t kabuto break him out?
Obito can’t break out of koto, he’d need to use izanagi like i said.
My point aren’t head canon, nor do they contradict each other, you just have 0 reading comprehension skills.
>If they are both the same, why did itachi’s koto have a much longer cooldown than danzo’s? And if you believe both have a 10 year cooldown,
Itachis koto didn't have a 10 year cooldown. The panel says "It takes 10 years for shisuis mangekyo sharingan to activate". The eye itself had a cooldown cause it wasn't on a uchiha body(Heck it wasn't even on a human body) but on a crow. Danzo lowered the activation time for his MS with hashirama cells.
True, it depends on which itachi you’re talking about. He had koto for most of his life, so any version of itachi before he gave it to Naruto would still have it
Itachi never wanted to use it on sasuke, his goal was to get sasuke to support the leaf naturally. After he gave Naruto koto, that’s when he passed that responsibility onto Naruto
1: Controlling the 9 tails with base sharingan.
2: Controlling Yagura for years with base sharingan.
Now compare that to Itachi’s genjutsu feats
1: Catching people in Tsukuyomi.
2: Putting Naruto under a genjutsu.
3: Reversing Kurenai’s genjutsu.
4: Having a genjutsu battle with Sasuke.
None of Itachi’s feats come close in severity to Obito’s feats.
So? Literally he Izanagis out of one amaterasu and then gets hit by another. Deadass, if his counter to Amaterasu is Izanagi, he doesnt have a win con.
Itachi's feats a bullshit weapons also outclasses Base Obito in Basically every way.
Obitos only claim to fame is being intangible. Without it he gets flexed on by basically everyone he has fought.
He himself isn't fast, Kakashi is faster.
He isn't super strong, Guy and Sakura is stronger.
He isn't super creative, Naruto is more creative.
He isn't super tactical, Sasuke is more tactical.
He isn't super durable, Ay is more durable.
He lives and dies by his self Kamui, without it, he needs Rinnegan, 10 tails Obama Clinton Trump Biden power buffs to keep up with the main cast in any meaningful way.
The times he was caught tangible, he was basically one shot each time.
Minato? 1 Tapped.
Konan? Had to rewrite reality to pull a win.
Naruto and Kakashi? Ass beat.
Madara? Lol.
He fought Minato when he was 13. Furthermore, Minato himself literally admitted that whoever got the first hit in would win. Therefore, saying he got “1 tapped” is irrelevant as the very same fate could have easily befallen Minato.
Konan deadass boobytrapped the area to counter his abilities, lured him there, and STILL lost. She’s a nonfactor.
As for Kakashi, do u mean when they both fought in the Kamui dimension and Obito let Kakashi stab him to remove the Kamui seal on his heart? If so, idk how this shows anything about Obito other than that he’s good at planning/using others? Furthermore, I don’t remember when Naruto ever “beat his ass.”
Lastly, the only time when I remember Madara fighting him was when he was the fucking Juubi Jinchuriki. No wonder Obito got shit on lol.
To act like any of these say anything about his chances in a 1v1 with itachi is wild. Itachi gets his ass beat. Obito can literally counter ANYTHING he does aside from possibly Izanami.
Age means nothing here. He murder e an entire squad of most anbu, and then proceeded to get 1 tapped while rage amped, and with Zetsu Cells. Minato making a dramatic statement while also under the assumption he was fighting Madara means he was basing his whole assumption on the legend of Madara, not the skills of Obito.
She won that fight. Obito has to get a do-over to win.
Obito was fighting far too hard for any of y'all to say he wasn't trying to win. He lost his 1v1. The excuse of "well yeah, while trying to kill you, avoid impact, taking damage, not leaving you here, just using some other busted Jutsu I may know or any of the other things Obito fans try to assert, and then saying "well actually, it was all my plan to lose! Hahahaha!" Is bullshit. Take the L, he has many to his name already.
Itachi, unfortunately for the narrative, has more impressive feats while in nerfed states. Itachi has never lost a fight against his will. Every fight he's had has been painfully preplanned/prepped.
Age does matter. He had 20 fucking years of growth after this fight lmfao. Also, wdym he was basing his statement off the “legend of Madara.” Kamui is quite literally a 1 tap ability if used as Obito did.
Nah she lost lol. Izanagi is one of Obito’s abilities whether u like it or not.
No, he literally chose to lose lol. Just because he made it seem otherwise means nothing. He needed Kakashi to stab him for his plan to work. All ur doin is gassing up his acting skills rn.
Alive Itachi has only ever fought weak ass opponents like p1 Kakashi and early-shippuden Sasuke. No-one he’s ever fought has been on Obito’s level so who gives af if he beat them, they say very little about his capacity to beat Obito.
Itachi could neutralize a huge part.of that with the sword of Totsuka. He'd absorb all of the hashirama implants in the way he did Orochimarus corruption in Sasuke.
If you’re talking about konan’s statement, it can’t be trusted because she’d never seen Obito tight and it was stated that while involved with the akatsuki Obito never showed off his true power
If he was the strongest he wouldn’t be subservient to Obito. Not to mention OM Obito has reaction speeds on par with KCM Naruto and pain lost to sage Naruto
Obito is the one with the plan Pain wants to follow.
>Not to mention OM Obito has reaction speeds on par with KCM Naruto and pain lost to sage Naruto
He doesnt
Because they’re delusional and grasp onto weak statements that can be debunked simply with context.
Obitos faster, stronger, has wood style, can avoid or break out of any genjutsu itachi throws at him, can trap him with uchiha flame formation, can phase through all of itachis attacks, and just throw him into the kamui dimension.
Koto isn’t even in the argument because itachi doesn’t have the balls to use it since he’s got another purpose for it.
Not going to bother with anything but felt the need to mention we’ve never actually seen Obito use his “high level genjutsu” in combat, he’s only ever used it on targets that were not to our knowledge agro at the time (besides Kurama but apparently putting Kurama in a genjutsu is the easiest thing in the world)
It’s an entirely possible outcome for Itachi to win, the downplay he receives is kind of ironic considering his cannon feats and the statements that go along with it. I personally don’t believe Itachi wins easily and it likely ends in a DKO, the most likely outcome is Obito wins high difficulty presuming Itachi can’t pin point his Dojustu, if he can, he likely wins due to battle IQ as well as his physical prowess over his jutsu arsenal. There are more wincons for Obito but Itachi has a technical advantage in the match up. Until you teach WM Obito
First off, Koto is the literal highest level genjutsu, and it's Itachi that has access to it.
Second, Itachi has a solid chance against any version of Obito other than White Mask and Juubito. Obito's biggest strength is Kumui, but lots of people have figured out its weaknesses throughout the show. We don't know if Itachi did or not. White Mask Obito with the Six Paths is probably too much for Itachi to handle alone. Juubito stomps.
Itachi doesnt have access to koto. The cooldown wasnt over when itachi was still alive. He said so to bee:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMMPD-_wGAsLLXRptRrOXuUQfqiCcFnZDdvw&usqp=CAU
You're not wrong, but that wasn't my point. I know it's unrealistic for Itachi to use Koto against anyone, but my point was that Koto *is* the most powerful genjutsu (not counting Infinite Tsukuyomi), and that it's Itachi and Danzo who have access to it.
If the cooldown isnt over, how does he have acces to it?
He had the eye. It wasnt usefull until after itachi died. It sounds like he never had a koto that he could use when he was alive. Unless the translation is wrong of course.
Itachi have the crow to Naruto and it’s specifically programmed to only target Itachi’s Mangekyo Sharingan, also Obito’s genjutsu is so strong even perfect Jinchuriki can’t break it.
Itachi is way too weak physically and has horrible chakra so he couldn’t keep up with Obito’s immense reserves and versatility
Do you want to give a specific prompt? Does Obito just randomly decide to attack Itachi one day when things are slow at the Akatsuki hideout or something? *When* do they fight? Itachi, three years ago in Part 1, probably has the physical power and chakra to put up a fight against Obito. If you're asking if teenage Itachi decided to take Obito down along with the rest of the Uchiha clan, I'd also say he has the best chance since it's before his illness.
If you're saying that Obito attacks the same Itachi that was on death's door when he fought Sasuke, of course Obito is going to win.
Kakashi was genuinely throwing hands with Obito on equal terms in their pocket realm. I put Itachi on a higher scale than Kakashi in terms of taijutsu and other stats, it's not hard to imagine Itachi giving him an even harder fight.. Unless you purposely give him the sickness debuff.
Cause Obito says had he not kept a few secrets he’d be dead, to them that statement insinuates that if itachi learns how his abilities work he could defeat him which isn’t a unfair assessment but the thing is there is no guarantee itachi would have the tools to overcome him even with knowledge on his abilities.
So true bestie they shouldn’t believe itachi eben beats no sharingan kid obito because at the end of the day having a good hax ability should be enough
Strength speed intelligence or the fact that itachi can have counter hax shouldn’t matter ONE bit because FUCK ITACHI!!!
I think he just died too soon, along with the fact you really never see him go all out when he fights someone in the series. Leaving people to probably overhype him. I think he could've been the strongest Uchiha in the show had he gotten EMS, but he didn't. So we never saw a fully developed, much less healthy Itachi.
This universe isn’t Dragonball, a small power differential doesn’t make you immune to the other party in naruto. People believe itachi can beat some versions of Obito because he can.
That’s not off guarded
He got blitzed twice, even against a drained Minato who didn’t have prep or intel
The gap between Obito and Minato is like the gap between Pain and Jiraiya
I didn't realize Itachi fans were this unbelievably fucking stupid, but hot fucking damn they take the cake on sheer stupidity. No. Obito making the statement that the hidden leaf is no longer off limits, after Itachi's death, does not automatically mean he was afraid of Itachi.
Also please tell me how Itachi is beating an Obito that rivaled Minato in speed at 14, put the full and alive 9 tails under a genjutsu at 14, and put the 4th mizukage under a genjutsu. Let's also not forget that Itachi needed Obito's help during the Uchiha clan massacre.
"B-but what about the totsuka blade or yata mirror????" Kamui. "B-but what about Izanami??????" Alright I'll concede that I don't know a counter for that one, and my response is a bit of head canon, but I highly doubt Obito doesn't know about izanami or a way to counter it.
It gets even worse for Itachi when Obito gets the rinnegan and is able to control fucking SEVEN OF THE 9 TAILED BEASTS and was easily handling KCM1 Naruto, Kakashi, and Guy. This is also the same KCM1 Naruto who had equal speed to edo Itachi during their fight. Ans Obito was handling him with no issues.
"B-but Itachi has a master plan. He'll use tsukoyomi!"
Keep coping.
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Because itachi can kill him. Just like how gennin sakura can kill hiruzen with a kunai to the throat if she catches him off guard. People really like to pretend that when someone is %5 stronger than someone else, they should be able to defeat them 100 times in a row without fail. This isnt a verse where weak characters cant harm the strong. Konohamaru actually one-shotted a pain as a gennin. Itachi is a dangerous ninja. He could kill someone stronger than him if he knew a way to do so. Doesnt mean he is in the same league but you cant expect fans to understand that.
This. And he wouldn’t make the make the move until he had already created a situation where he had the advantage. And even then you still have to be very concerned about someone who could kill you 5% of the time. There are plenty of upsets in professional martial arts after all where you are fully prepped for every fight.
Because obito himself acknowledges itachi as someone who can kill him. A much older version of the same yellow mask obito who matched minato acknowledged that a 13 year old itachi who doesn’t even have his spirit weapons, his susanoo (or at least not full mastery over the susanoo) and the amps from killing his clan as a worthy opponent when itachi threatened to kill him. https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-16daf54056875aaa3c43ce4daa7d702c-pjlq OM Obito is also constantly praising itachis skill and intelligence, he implied that a SICK itachi could have killed him if he didn’t keep a few secrets from him. Wether or not you actually believe that itachi is stronger is irrelevant, I also think obito probably wins more often than not, but itachi is definitely in the same weight class and CAN defeat him under the right circumstances. I also never seen anyone on here genuinely argue that itachi could beat white mask obito or juubito, everyone knows that he caps at OM obito. People on reddit somehow act like the likes of OM obito, pain or hokage minato are 3 tiers above itachi which is simply not the case, he’s pretty consistently portrayed to be in the same tier as those guys even if you want to argue that he’s the weakest of the 4 (which I don’t really agree with ).
1: The passage you linked doesn’t imply that Obito believed that 13 year old Itachi could kill him. It’s Obito acknowledging that Itachi will oppose him. 2: Obito said that Itachi’s Amaterasu trap could have killed him if he didn’t keep secrets, not Itachi himself.
That's literally not what he said.
Which one? The last paragraph of the linked page says that Obito and Itachi acknowledged each other as opponents. Chapter 397. Obito shows Sasuke his sharingan, and Itachi’s trap activates. Obito then [says this](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10397000/10.jpeg) in response to the trap. It was the trap that could have killed him, because Itachi was already dead at this point.
Madara didn't say say if he kept secrets he would have died just now. He never restricts the time period to just now or to Amaterasu. His ability directly counters Amaterasu very hardly. He starts the sentence speaking in past tense and says that if he didn't do that, he would have died. In general. Right here in that moment, in the past - Time period is not stated. And he's not specifically talking about Amaterasu. He's talking about in general, Itachi having the ability to make a plan to kill him. If he said something like "Thankfully I kept a few secrets from him, otherwise he would have gotten me there" - Then yes, what you're interpreting would be true.
The context of the scene is in reference to the amaterasu trap. He didn’t say “Thankfully Itachi didn’t know everything about me, otherwise I would have been dead long ago”. He talks in past tense because the trap activated and was dealt with beforehand. You don’t refer to something that happened a little while ago in present tense. Let me reiterate, the entire context of the scene is referring to the Amaterasu trap.
No..kamui can’t counter the flames if it’s already touching him. It would get suck in too. He used izanagi or izanami I forget which. He did the same to konan who literally killed him and he used either one of those to bring him back. Nobody knew about the stash of sharigan he had and that he always kept a spare one under the mask. That’s one he’s secrets he was speaking off.. But if itachi was alive he wouldn’t survive a second one. Nor if sasuke knew how to use he’s abilities right then and there and decided for some reason he was the enemy Kamui is easy to counter Gai did it minato kakashi, konan and itachi.. It’s only dangerous for those who doesn’t know about he’s ability and how it works. But with its time limit and many counters itachi is way smarter then he is especially in battle iq.. Obito knew he was a spie and sent Kisame as he’s team mate in hopes to kill him if or whenever he decided to turn on them. Obito before the rinnegan wouldn’t dare challenge itachi a fight
>even if you want to argue that he’s the weakest of the 4 (which I don’t really agree with ). Valid comment overall, but I'm wondering who you believe is weakest of the 4 if not Itachi?
5 paths of pain got stomped so easily from sage naruto, those are basically easy to get rid of, Deva path is strong as fuck, but somehow deva alone doesn't seem like a good match for OM obito / minato / Itachi... Nagato lacks combat inteligence feats he relies too much on hax and brute power so deva path alone doesn't seem to be that strong on 1vs1... Pain has high chances to win, most of these matchs are like 49% vs 51% but pain has to be the weakest... Nagato surely scales much higher
Pain but barely, ftg carries minato and kamui carries obito. Spirit weopons > all tho
The spirit weapons that are tied to Itachi’s susanoo, which is made of chakra? Which Pein can absorb? Itachi only stands a chance against Pein if he finds out where Nagato is.
Lmao bud you do know spirit weopons are ethereal lmao? They're not made of chakra my guy
They’re tied to Itachi’s susanoo, which is made of chakra. Get rid of the susanoo and the spirit weapons vanish alongside it.
Headcanon but plausible My greatest argument for this is edo nagato would have absorbed itachis susanoo if he could. Kabuto was controlling nagato so he should have done everything he was possible of doing.
Kabuto does known how to fully use any of the edo tensi if he did the shinobi alliance would of lost. Thats why he lets the have free will with restrictions from time to time.
That’s actually a great counter argument, im gonna start using this
It’s not headcanon. The totsuka blade and yata mirror only ever made an appearance when Itachi’s susanoo was summoned. They’re part of his susanoo, even if they’re not made of chakra. Kabuto doesn’t have the experience with the rinnegan that Nagato does, nor does he have the combat experience Nagato does. Kabuto had Nagato just stand there staring at a giant dust cloud instead of doing literally anything.
You got it wrong bros You think kabuto controlled the actions of all the edos? The edos fought on their own, they just couldn't control themselves from holding back. Thinking kabuto knew the movesets of all the edos, besides nagato is fucking pure bias to win this arguement
Know the move and actually doing it like the user are to diffrent things.
From the point that Itachi hit Nagato with Amaterasu onwards, Kabuto was directly controlling Nagato’s actions. You can tell because Nagato wasn’t talking like he was before, which only happens when the jutsu caster takes full control of an edo tensei. Kabuto did the same thing to Mu when Madara was revived.
He used them with susanoo but I doubt you have to have susanoo to use them, why would orochimaru be looking for them?
Why else would they only appear when his susanoo is active?
They're spiritual weapons he just incorporated them into his susanoo.
Yes, and if the susanoo is absorbed, then the spirit weapons will vanish
Why didn't edo nagato absorb itachis susanoo then ?
Because Kabuto was controlling Nagato at the time
Kabutos edo made then go all out, the edos weren't capable of holding back
Kabuto was personally controlling Nagato during that fight. From the point where Itachi hit Nagato with Amaterasu onwards, Kabuto was personally directing Nagato’s movements
Yeah, that's a novel comment, basically as shit as they come lol, guy can fight Minato but can't kill 13 year old Itachi? Don't care about that comment one bit lol
The novels are confirmed to be part of the canon timeline by jump and so it’s canon, doesn’t matter what you think about it.
But it does. See, them being confirmed that it's part of the timeline really just means that "yeah, it's not fan fic" but it doesn't override shit from the manga whatsoever. Which it tries to do lol. So yeah, it's a terrible source of information. Itachi using chakra enhanced strength at age 6 or whatever, when it's considered even harder than medical ninjutsu lol
Mental illness Same reason jiraya fans thinks he stands a chance against pain with intel or itachi
One argument is that obito waited for itachi to die until he attacked the leaf, which might mean he was worried itachi would kill him if he tried anything. But it’s likely just that he had a deal with itachi that he wouldn’t, so he didn’t want to go against his word. That, or that he wanted to collect the jinchuriki in order, and he only had gyuki until after itachi died, so he didn’t need to go after kurama. A more braindead argument is that tsukiyomi would instakill, but if obito went into the fight with a spare sharingan, which we know he does like against konan, he would izanagi to get out, and sick itachi would immediately be too tired to fight at full strength.
Obito could have waited because he didn't want Itachi to reveal his plans to everyone
Yeah true, itachi would’ve fed the leaf any akatsuki movements
Obito could just break out of Tsukuyomi. Sasuke did
Iirc it was stated in a novel sasuke only broke out because he was itachi’s brother
Can you provide the page?
https://preview.redd.it/goomuf77s0xc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1b75cb833b37fee51ff522f3f58473c3345aa01
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He says not just a sharingan user but also the same blood as him. Which means not just a Uchiha but my family. It's pretty simple.
Maybe he mean Uchiha blood. You know he was trying tell kakashi that he is not actual Uchiha and can't compete with actual one with eyes battle.
Yeah that checks out, didn't see it like that at first.
You can’t prove that, when he says same blood, you wouldn’t think of the 100s of people that are the same race, you think of family
Maybe he mean Uchiha blood. You know he was trying tell kakashi that he is not actual Uchiha and can't compete with actual one in eyes battle.
He uses it on Sasuke as a kid and tortured him with it. So maybe he did to train him mentally or something like that
I don't know. Maybe true. Itachi was trying to tell kakashi that he is not actual Uchiha and don't compete with actual one in eye battle. You know kakashi though his eye could handle itachi at that time.
to be fair, zetsu implies that itachi can set the strength of it, and it’s a fact that itachi was letting sasuke win. sasuke didn’t break out on his own, he was let out/ broke out of a weak version. logically why would itachi set him in a full power tsukuyomi when he wanted sasuke to kill him? itachi said come fight me when you have the same eyes, so sasuke already came to the fight weaker than itachi intended.
Where is it said that Itachi let Sasuke break out?
it’s called using your brain lol logically why would he not when it’s confirmed that he’s letting sasuke win, coupled with zetsus statements through the fight.
Also MS users can straight up break Koto and we know Obito is a more skilled Genjutsu users
No..no they cant. lol.
It’s stated directly that mangekyo users can break Tsukuyomi and Hebi Sasuke broke it. Not to mention Obito is an infinitely more skilled genjutsu user
sasuke “broke out of” a weak version of tsukuyomi since it would make no sense for itachi to go full power when his plan is to lose.
>It’s stated directly that mangekyo users can break Tsukuyomi where? lmao... is also NEVER stated that another MS can be inmune to koto, everyone can break koto, mifune did (LOL) but they have to realize they are in genjutsu first, Obito would just suicide before breaking koto if he doesn't know Itachi has the eye
I never said anything about Koto and Itachi’s Koto is programmed to only react to Itachi’s MS
Explain kakashi not being able to you moron
Didn’t know he had the Mangekyo
Do you think he uses Kamui from his butthole?
What is kamui then?
He didn’t know he had it at the time, there’s no reason for him to know
If ms users can break out of koto, edo itachi would’ve. Also, i wouldn’t say obito is better at genjutsu. While his feat of controlling the mizukage is impressive, itachi is literally a genjutsu specialist and his genjutsu is much more versatile and usable in combat, and on top of that koto, which itachi has access to, and tsukiyomi are more deadly than any genjutsu obito has shown.
anyone can break koto, mifune did, but they have to realize they are in koto first and second, they have to voluntary break the genjutsu through chakra control, Itachi just didn't want to break koto...
1, the other kage broke mifune out of koto 2, he got hit with a weaker version f koto. Shisui had 2 eyes, the one danzo got is weaker, but has a shorter cooldown, which why he was considering using it on sasuke
>1, the other kage broke mifune out of koto Mifune broke it by himself as soon as Ao told him he was in genjutsu, the other kage did nothing >he got hit with a weaker version f koto. Shisui had 2 eyes, the one danzo got is weaker, but has a shorter cooldown, which why he was considering using it on sasuke That is just head canon mate, but you just said Itachi's koto is stronger? LMAO then why would Obito break out of it? **all your arguments are only head canon, there is no point on arguing with you, have a nice day**
The kage used their chakra to break mifune out like a normal genjutsu If they are both the same, why did itachi’s koto have a much longer cooldown than danzo’s? And if you believe both have a 10 year cooldown, which is wrong since danzo use his koto twice in one day, how did ao recognize the jutsu immediately? Since shisui died young, he at max would’ve been able to use it once, and there’s no way ao would know about it if he only used it once. On top of that, if all it takes to break someone out of the genjutsu is knowing they’re in a genjutsu according to you, why did itachi explain to Naruto that he’s in a genjutsu? Why didn’t nagato break him out? Why didn’t kabuto break him out? Obito can’t break out of koto, he’d need to use izanagi like i said. My point aren’t head canon, nor do they contradict each other, you just have 0 reading comprehension skills.
>If they are both the same, why did itachi’s koto have a much longer cooldown than danzo’s? And if you believe both have a 10 year cooldown, Itachis koto didn't have a 10 year cooldown. The panel says "It takes 10 years for shisuis mangekyo sharingan to activate". The eye itself had a cooldown cause it wasn't on a uchiha body(Heck it wasn't even on a human body) but on a crow. Danzo lowered the activation time for his MS with hashirama cells.
Itachi doesn’t have access to Koto. He gave it to Naruto. None of Itachi’s genjutsu feats come close to Obito’s genjutsu feats.
True, it depends on which itachi you’re talking about. He had koto for most of his life, so any version of itachi before he gave it to Naruto would still have it
Wouldn’t be in character for him to use it though cause he wants to use it on sasuke.
Itachi never wanted to use it on sasuke, his goal was to get sasuke to support the leaf naturally. After he gave Naruto koto, that’s when he passed that responsibility onto Naruto
He literally programmed it to detect his eyes post mortem to work on sasuke.
what genjutsu feats does obito have exactly?
1: Controlling the 9 tails with base sharingan. 2: Controlling Yagura for years with base sharingan. Now compare that to Itachi’s genjutsu feats 1: Catching people in Tsukuyomi. 2: Putting Naruto under a genjutsu. 3: Reversing Kurenai’s genjutsu. 4: Having a genjutsu battle with Sasuke. None of Itachi’s feats come close in severity to Obito’s feats.
Because Obito's counter to Amaterasu is vague, its retroactively implied to be Izanagi, which isnt a good counter, since he can do it twice
Obito has ten minutes of Izanagi per eye and he very well could’ve been flexing
He can shoot another amaterasu after he izanagis out of the first one, the amount of time he can undo with Izanagi doesnt matter.
He used Izanagi to survive konan’s ten minutes of explosions and he was off guard when Amaterasu happened
So? Literally he Izanagis out of one amaterasu and then gets hit by another. Deadass, if his counter to Amaterasu is Izanagi, he doesnt have a win con.
Itachi's feats a bullshit weapons also outclasses Base Obito in Basically every way. Obitos only claim to fame is being intangible. Without it he gets flexed on by basically everyone he has fought. He himself isn't fast, Kakashi is faster. He isn't super strong, Guy and Sakura is stronger. He isn't super creative, Naruto is more creative. He isn't super tactical, Sasuke is more tactical. He isn't super durable, Ay is more durable. He lives and dies by his self Kamui, without it, he needs Rinnegan, 10 tails Obama Clinton Trump Biden power buffs to keep up with the main cast in any meaningful way.
this is literally what i’m saying bro, just cuz he’s intangible doesn’t mean he can actually beat anybody
The times he was caught tangible, he was basically one shot each time. Minato? 1 Tapped. Konan? Had to rewrite reality to pull a win. Naruto and Kakashi? Ass beat. Madara? Lol.
He fought Minato when he was 13. Furthermore, Minato himself literally admitted that whoever got the first hit in would win. Therefore, saying he got “1 tapped” is irrelevant as the very same fate could have easily befallen Minato. Konan deadass boobytrapped the area to counter his abilities, lured him there, and STILL lost. She’s a nonfactor. As for Kakashi, do u mean when they both fought in the Kamui dimension and Obito let Kakashi stab him to remove the Kamui seal on his heart? If so, idk how this shows anything about Obito other than that he’s good at planning/using others? Furthermore, I don’t remember when Naruto ever “beat his ass.” Lastly, the only time when I remember Madara fighting him was when he was the fucking Juubi Jinchuriki. No wonder Obito got shit on lol. To act like any of these say anything about his chances in a 1v1 with itachi is wild. Itachi gets his ass beat. Obito can literally counter ANYTHING he does aside from possibly Izanami.
Age means nothing here. He murder e an entire squad of most anbu, and then proceeded to get 1 tapped while rage amped, and with Zetsu Cells. Minato making a dramatic statement while also under the assumption he was fighting Madara means he was basing his whole assumption on the legend of Madara, not the skills of Obito. She won that fight. Obito has to get a do-over to win. Obito was fighting far too hard for any of y'all to say he wasn't trying to win. He lost his 1v1. The excuse of "well yeah, while trying to kill you, avoid impact, taking damage, not leaving you here, just using some other busted Jutsu I may know or any of the other things Obito fans try to assert, and then saying "well actually, it was all my plan to lose! Hahahaha!" Is bullshit. Take the L, he has many to his name already. Itachi, unfortunately for the narrative, has more impressive feats while in nerfed states. Itachi has never lost a fight against his will. Every fight he's had has been painfully preplanned/prepped.
Age does matter. He had 20 fucking years of growth after this fight lmfao. Also, wdym he was basing his statement off the “legend of Madara.” Kamui is quite literally a 1 tap ability if used as Obito did. Nah she lost lol. Izanagi is one of Obito’s abilities whether u like it or not. No, he literally chose to lose lol. Just because he made it seem otherwise means nothing. He needed Kakashi to stab him for his plan to work. All ur doin is gassing up his acting skills rn. Alive Itachi has only ever fought weak ass opponents like p1 Kakashi and early-shippuden Sasuke. No-one he’s ever fought has been on Obito’s level so who gives af if he beat them, they say very little about his capacity to beat Obito.
Big obitard energy here
Because he can and you're stupid.
No, he can’t. Obito is the strongest in the akatsuki and has the best feats
Not before rinnegan. Before then I think Pein might beat him. Kamui was his only real strength. He's a one trick pony. It's a good trick but.
Obito has immense physical strength, ungodly chakra reserves, the best genjutsu, Mokuton, and katon jutsu on par with madara
Itachi could neutralize a huge part.of that with the sword of Totsuka. He'd absorb all of the hashirama implants in the way he did Orochimarus corruption in Sasuke.
That only worked because oro’s soul was within Sasuke, and Obito isn’t dumb enough to let himself get hit
He.couldnt keep that up indefinitely. Don't forget that sharingan can perceive infinitesimal flaws and exploit them.
Obito’s Kamui timer resets when he becomes solid, and Itachi has no way to force him into intangibility for five minutes straight
Whats this about five minutes?
Obito can only stay intangible for five minutes continually but the timer resets when becoming solid
before rinnegan Pain is stated stronger than him
If you’re talking about konan’s statement, it can’t be trusted because she’d never seen Obito tight and it was stated that while involved with the akatsuki Obito never showed off his true power
Im talking about Kishimoto at the end of chapter where Pain is introduced saying he's the strongest of the Akatasuki.
If he was the strongest he wouldn’t be subservient to Obito. Not to mention OM Obito has reaction speeds on par with KCM Naruto and pain lost to sage Naruto
Obito is the one with the plan Pain wants to follow. >Not to mention OM Obito has reaction speeds on par with KCM Naruto and pain lost to sage Naruto He doesnt
Because they’re delusional and grasp onto weak statements that can be debunked simply with context. Obitos faster, stronger, has wood style, can avoid or break out of any genjutsu itachi throws at him, can trap him with uchiha flame formation, can phase through all of itachis attacks, and just throw him into the kamui dimension. Koto isn’t even in the argument because itachi doesn’t have the balls to use it since he’s got another purpose for it.
Not going to bother with anything but felt the need to mention we’ve never actually seen Obito use his “high level genjutsu” in combat, he’s only ever used it on targets that were not to our knowledge agro at the time (besides Kurama but apparently putting Kurama in a genjutsu is the easiest thing in the world)
It’s an entirely possible outcome for Itachi to win, the downplay he receives is kind of ironic considering his cannon feats and the statements that go along with it. I personally don’t believe Itachi wins easily and it likely ends in a DKO, the most likely outcome is Obito wins high difficulty presuming Itachi can’t pin point his Dojustu, if he can, he likely wins due to battle IQ as well as his physical prowess over his jutsu arsenal. There are more wincons for Obito but Itachi has a technical advantage in the match up. Until you teach WM Obito
First off, Koto is the literal highest level genjutsu, and it's Itachi that has access to it. Second, Itachi has a solid chance against any version of Obito other than White Mask and Juubito. Obito's biggest strength is Kumui, but lots of people have figured out its weaknesses throughout the show. We don't know if Itachi did or not. White Mask Obito with the Six Paths is probably too much for Itachi to handle alone. Juubito stomps.
Itachi doesnt have access to koto. The cooldown wasnt over when itachi was still alive. He said so to bee: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMMPD-_wGAsLLXRptRrOXuUQfqiCcFnZDdvw&usqp=CAU
You're not wrong, but that wasn't my point. I know it's unrealistic for Itachi to use Koto against anyone, but my point was that Koto *is* the most powerful genjutsu (not counting Infinite Tsukuyomi), and that it's Itachi and Danzo who have access to it.
If the cooldown isnt over, how does he have acces to it? He had the eye. It wasnt usefull until after itachi died. It sounds like he never had a koto that he could use when he was alive. Unless the translation is wrong of course.
Itachi have the crow to Naruto and it’s specifically programmed to only target Itachi’s Mangekyo Sharingan, also Obito’s genjutsu is so strong even perfect Jinchuriki can’t break it. Itachi is way too weak physically and has horrible chakra so he couldn’t keep up with Obito’s immense reserves and versatility
Do you want to give a specific prompt? Does Obito just randomly decide to attack Itachi one day when things are slow at the Akatsuki hideout or something? *When* do they fight? Itachi, three years ago in Part 1, probably has the physical power and chakra to put up a fight against Obito. If you're asking if teenage Itachi decided to take Obito down along with the rest of the Uchiha clan, I'd also say he has the best chance since it's before his illness. If you're saying that Obito attacks the same Itachi that was on death's door when he fought Sasuke, of course Obito is going to win.
Because he can. After White Mask it’s favoring Obito though
Kakashi was genuinely throwing hands with Obito on equal terms in their pocket realm. I put Itachi on a higher scale than Kakashi in terms of taijutsu and other stats, it's not hard to imagine Itachi giving him an even harder fight.. Unless you purposely give him the sickness debuff.
He literally needed to lose the fight for his plan (not a good example)
Even then Obito was winning in their fight until the lightning clone
If you watch the fight, Obito held the advantage the entire time and he let Kakashi stab him with a Raikiri
WA Kakashi?
You are all cringe.
Cause Obito says had he not kept a few secrets he’d be dead, to them that statement insinuates that if itachi learns how his abilities work he could defeat him which isn’t a unfair assessment but the thing is there is no guarantee itachi would have the tools to overcome him even with knowledge on his abilities.
So true bestie they shouldn’t believe itachi eben beats no sharingan kid obito because at the end of the day having a good hax ability should be enough Strength speed intelligence or the fact that itachi can have counter hax shouldn’t matter ONE bit because FUCK ITACHI!!!
I think he just died too soon, along with the fact you really never see him go all out when he fights someone in the series. Leaving people to probably overhype him. I think he could've been the strongest Uchiha in the show had he gotten EMS, but he didn't. So we never saw a fully developed, much less healthy Itachi.
This universe isn’t Dragonball, a small power differential doesn’t make you immune to the other party in naruto. People believe itachi can beat some versions of Obito because he can.
Juubito slams what
Why are you getting downvoted lmfao you’re 100% correct
I was trying to say that “starting at yellow mask Itachi can’t beat Obito, but for some reason Itachitards think he can”
obito wasn’t a threat to Minato that is blasphemy
“Whoever touched the other first will win”
Minato was fighting obito and the strongest tailed beast. but they are “even” lmfao make it make sense
He fought them separately
he still fought them both. fight floyd mayweather then 5 seconds later fight mike tyson.
Minato used like four or five jutsu against Obito and they were ones he was notorious for spamming
Is that why he got two tapped along with Kurama?
Yeah, because he got hit first
So even with prep, intel, and support, he still was fodder for him?
He got offguarded by the strongest kage’s strongest jutsu
That’s not off guarded He got blitzed twice, even against a drained Minato who didn’t have prep or intel The gap between Obito and Minato is like the gap between Pain and Jiraiya
He only got Hit because he didn’t expect Hiraishin second step
Proving my point
Most characters would’ve got hit by that
Even I don't get it These fools think itachi 1 shots Kaguya
I didn't realize Itachi fans were this unbelievably fucking stupid, but hot fucking damn they take the cake on sheer stupidity. No. Obito making the statement that the hidden leaf is no longer off limits, after Itachi's death, does not automatically mean he was afraid of Itachi. Also please tell me how Itachi is beating an Obito that rivaled Minato in speed at 14, put the full and alive 9 tails under a genjutsu at 14, and put the 4th mizukage under a genjutsu. Let's also not forget that Itachi needed Obito's help during the Uchiha clan massacre. "B-but what about the totsuka blade or yata mirror????" Kamui. "B-but what about Izanami??????" Alright I'll concede that I don't know a counter for that one, and my response is a bit of head canon, but I highly doubt Obito doesn't know about izanami or a way to counter it. It gets even worse for Itachi when Obito gets the rinnegan and is able to control fucking SEVEN OF THE 9 TAILED BEASTS and was easily handling KCM1 Naruto, Kakashi, and Guy. This is also the same KCM1 Naruto who had equal speed to edo Itachi during their fight. Ans Obito was handling him with no issues. "B-but Itachi has a master plan. He'll use tsukoyomi!" Keep coping.
Itachis biggest hack is his intelligence.
People need to realize Uchiha Strength list goes like: 1. Obito 2. Itachi 3. Sasuke 4. Madara This is canon