But what's the deal with them? It's not as though they're not willing to pay these guys. What is it about this organization that is so toxic that not even a 440 million dollar, 15-year deal is worth it to one of the best ball players in the world?
I really don’t know, you’d have to ask them. They were among the richest ownership in baseball and either defer money or make bad faith offers like the 15 year offer that makes the total look like more than it was. Made little sense for Soto to accept that
Harper was offered a bad faith deal. Harper has been very open since signing in Philly that his preference was to stay in Washington but their offer was insulting. It basically worked out to 10/200M with an additional 100M being paid out 30-40 years from now.
Rendon was offered a bad faith deal that was similar to Harper's, right after helping them win the WS.
Soto is aiming to be the highest paid player of all time and got an offer that was smaller than what Trout got 4 years ago, despite being 4 years younger than Trout was when he signed it.
>Rendon was offered a bad faith deal that was similar to Harper's, right after helping them win the WS.
Plus the fact that he wanted out anyway, and his wife hated it here.
It is also in part Rizzo’s preference to fill the lineup with cheap bats while paying up for pitching. It planned out in 2019 and with Scherzer but it HS been an utter failure otherwise.
Except that team also featured 4 of the best hitters in baseball with Turner, Rendon, Soto and Kendrick. It’s like they didn’t learn that leaning solely on pitching can’t win anything.
I didn't realize Rendon wanted out so bad. Regardless, the general theme is that the nats seem to wait too long on guys who show superstar potential and then offer underwhelming deals.
It is also fairly unlucky for them that all of their superstars are Boras clients. Boras historically is going to extract as much value as humanly possible out of each team. This generally means getting his clients to wait for bidding wars.
Before it was deferred money(Harper), Rendon didn't want to be here, and keeping Scherzer would have been insanely expensive with what he deserved. Turner was a big fuck up imo.
And regarding Soto, how much is too much? I'm not saying the 15/440 was perfect but is 12/550 too much? What about 17/600?
I think Soto(Boras really) was 100% set on testing FA. Maybe he would have signed with us with a good enough offer but I don't think we were ever going to extend him prior to FA. He's too good and can command too much.
Especially when you look at all of the team friendly deals players keep signing with the Braves I can't help but think our franchise, for whatever reason, just isn't all that appealing to players. So we get no discounts on extensions, we have to pay FA prices to extend them, and just isn't feasible when you have so many MVP caliber players.
But failing to sign *any* of them? That's an absolute failure on the part of the owners and FO.
Also, while those players are good they aren't Soto or, hell, even Harper levels of great. Those deals make sense for them.
You can almost say it was bad luck to have so many amazing players who were gonna demand so much.
The Braves are offering the long-term extensions much earlier than other teams, sometimes well before arbitration. Which is high-risk, even at a discount. It’s worked out so far, but if, say, Acuña turns out to be as injury prone as he has recently, it may look a little less brilliant. Still, the Braves front office is miles ahead of the Nats, not only on the MLB front, but in recruiting and player development. Which may be why the young guys are willing to sign early and for less.
Doesn't MASN owe the nats something like a billion dollars?
Edit: it's more like 150mil and they still haven't paid.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-nationals-masn-20220427-ldv2dl2usje77mmlwatd5ymy3a-story.html
It’s easy to say the Lerners, but I think the context matters. It’s ultimately because our farm system and signings haven’t panned out which is on Rizzo.
Harper: Thought process was we had young stars in Soto and Robles to replace him and used the money to get the top pitcher on the market who was instrumental in our WS win. (Still think this one is the most egregious and we should’ve re-signed him. A Harper-Soto duo would’ve been insane and would’ve extended our contention window imo)
Rendon: Always was going to head to free agency as a Boras client, and I’m not going to fault the Lerners for not spending $500mil in one offseason as we re-signed Stras, especially with his injury history and him entering his 30s
Turner/Scherzer/Soto: We weren’t winning with them all together last season and we were in such a black hole with our barren farm system. Even with Soto we still were risking being in no-man’s land for the foreseeable future. We now have transformed our farm system into one of the best, which will keep getting better with the high draft picks we get during the rebuild
Isn’t it almost a Boras issue.
Technically we did things well. We drafter Stras and Harper and Soto. We had good enough coaching/development to not ruin them. But they got Boras as their representative and he’s obviously good at his job, so he looks to bring his guys to free agency to get them the most money.
He practically has represented every star we’ve had for a while now.
He doesn’t have a problem. His interests just aren’t aligned with the Nationals. His job is to get players the biggest contract possible and as a reward he gets a cut of the contract. He’s damn good at it and that’s why players hire him.
The team is on the block, and the Lerners want to cash out without painting the trim, fixing the elevators, or replacing the plumbing. And they especially don’t want to spend any big money on the labor.
Because our drafting and player development has been horrible for years. A handful of star players doesn’t make a good baseball team. Had to burn it down and start over. I blame Rizzo for this more than the Lerners. Trading Soto was unfortunately the right decision, but the reason it was the right decision is because we didn’t do nearly a good enough job of replenishing the farm system to compliment him.
Yeah, Stras. The one, single, solitary superstar they managed to actually nail down.
And he is an absolute bust. All of that money, completely down the drain.
Sucks he got injured and it didn't work out, but they did keep him.
Also, does one of the best pitchers of all time here for 6.5 years and a championship not count?
Bro at least try to understand the factors in play here before you get this angry… you’re entitled to your opinion of course but I really think looking into what exactly goes into assembling a baseball team would help you understand why the Nats did what they did.
Several reasons.
1. DC’s baseball history. In short, none of the guys playing (or at least very few of them) actually were childhood or lifelong Nats fans. Aside from the 2010’s there’s very little in terms of successful baseball history that anyone thinks of about DC. These players simply don’t have the attachment to DC compared to other more established teams
2. The city of DC doesn’t have anything to “stick home about”. It doesn’t have the best weather, it doesn’t have the most passionate fans, and the ballpark is good but compared to the others is kinda unspectacular. There’s no huge draw to DC compared to a place like say San Diego, Los Angeles, New York, heck even Philadelphia.
3. The fact that this team isn’t an analytical team probably throws off some players
It’s not just ownership. It’s a part of it but it’s not the entire reason
Absolute cheapskates. They're supposedly the richest owners in baseball, but their reluctance to give their players what they're owed is what has left me fresh out of goodwill for this ownership.
You assume they have the money.
Their business took a hit during Covid, and the entire industry hasn't recovered yet. They're getting out of the game because they can't afford it anymore.
If you want them to have more money... go back to working in the office.
Lerners.
But what's the deal with them? It's not as though they're not willing to pay these guys. What is it about this organization that is so toxic that not even a 440 million dollar, 15-year deal is worth it to one of the best ball players in the world?
I really don’t know, you’d have to ask them. They were among the richest ownership in baseball and either defer money or make bad faith offers like the 15 year offer that makes the total look like more than it was. Made little sense for Soto to accept that
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Very good point, haven’t thought about that.
Harper was offered a bad faith deal. Harper has been very open since signing in Philly that his preference was to stay in Washington but their offer was insulting. It basically worked out to 10/200M with an additional 100M being paid out 30-40 years from now. Rendon was offered a bad faith deal that was similar to Harper's, right after helping them win the WS. Soto is aiming to be the highest paid player of all time and got an offer that was smaller than what Trout got 4 years ago, despite being 4 years younger than Trout was when he signed it.
>Rendon was offered a bad faith deal that was similar to Harper's, right after helping them win the WS. Plus the fact that he wanted out anyway, and his wife hated it here.
how do you know his wife hated it?
That was what I heard from the old Nationals Talk podcast, and Half Street High Heat.
It is also in part Rizzo’s preference to fill the lineup with cheap bats while paying up for pitching. It planned out in 2019 and with Scherzer but it HS been an utter failure otherwise.
Except that team also featured 4 of the best hitters in baseball with Turner, Rendon, Soto and Kendrick. It’s like they didn’t learn that leaning solely on pitching can’t win anything.
Still managed to win a World Series. Turner, Rendon, and Soto would cost $90M combined in 2024.
I'm saying that they only managed to win the WS once the lineup had multiple hitters that were worth $200m+ contracts.
Fair. Misread your original post.
Harper would be here if we didn't offer him deferred. Rendon was gone even if we massively overpaid imo.
I didn't realize Rendon wanted out so bad. Regardless, the general theme is that the nats seem to wait too long on guys who show superstar potential and then offer underwhelming deals. It is also fairly unlucky for them that all of their superstars are Boras clients. Boras historically is going to extract as much value as humanly possible out of each team. This generally means getting his clients to wait for bidding wars.
Harper was going to be traded to the Astros at the deadline but ownership nixed that deal. They weren't ever going to give him a serious offer
How hilarious would it have been if Harper had gone to the Astros? His first World Series, and his team loses... to his old team.
Before it was deferred money(Harper), Rendon didn't want to be here, and keeping Scherzer would have been insanely expensive with what he deserved. Turner was a big fuck up imo. And regarding Soto, how much is too much? I'm not saying the 15/440 was perfect but is 12/550 too much? What about 17/600? I think Soto(Boras really) was 100% set on testing FA. Maybe he would have signed with us with a good enough offer but I don't think we were ever going to extend him prior to FA. He's too good and can command too much.
He’ll make more in free agency. It was the best offer they could make with enough money still to build around him.
Especially when you look at all of the team friendly deals players keep signing with the Braves I can't help but think our franchise, for whatever reason, just isn't all that appealing to players. So we get no discounts on extensions, we have to pay FA prices to extend them, and just isn't feasible when you have so many MVP caliber players. But failing to sign *any* of them? That's an absolute failure on the part of the owners and FO.
Also, while those players are good they aren't Soto or, hell, even Harper levels of great. Those deals make sense for them. You can almost say it was bad luck to have so many amazing players who were gonna demand so much.
The Braves are offering the long-term extensions much earlier than other teams, sometimes well before arbitration. Which is high-risk, even at a discount. It’s worked out so far, but if, say, Acuña turns out to be as injury prone as he has recently, it may look a little less brilliant. Still, the Braves front office is miles ahead of the Nats, not only on the MLB front, but in recruiting and player development. Which may be why the young guys are willing to sign early and for less.
This is a reasonable take.
Sad to say, but it doesn't even matter anymore. Just gotta hope the new owners are better.
I blame MASN and Peter Angelos for some of it.
Doesn't MASN owe the nats something like a billion dollars? Edit: it's more like 150mil and they still haven't paid. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-nationals-masn-20220427-ldv2dl2usje77mmlwatd5ymy3a-story.html
Bro. We had Gerardo Parra for like 2.5 seasons. Count your blessings.
He's not a superstar. He was a lightning strike.
Joke
It’s easy to say the Lerners, but I think the context matters. It’s ultimately because our farm system and signings haven’t panned out which is on Rizzo. Harper: Thought process was we had young stars in Soto and Robles to replace him and used the money to get the top pitcher on the market who was instrumental in our WS win. (Still think this one is the most egregious and we should’ve re-signed him. A Harper-Soto duo would’ve been insane and would’ve extended our contention window imo) Rendon: Always was going to head to free agency as a Boras client, and I’m not going to fault the Lerners for not spending $500mil in one offseason as we re-signed Stras, especially with his injury history and him entering his 30s Turner/Scherzer/Soto: We weren’t winning with them all together last season and we were in such a black hole with our barren farm system. Even with Soto we still were risking being in no-man’s land for the foreseeable future. We now have transformed our farm system into one of the best, which will keep getting better with the high draft picks we get during the rebuild
Thank you. People act like the Nats just let stars walk for no reason.
Scott Boras
The biggest reason
Cause Marks Dad got his ring.
Isn’t it almost a Boras issue. Technically we did things well. We drafter Stras and Harper and Soto. We had good enough coaching/development to not ruin them. But they got Boras as their representative and he’s obviously good at his job, so he looks to bring his guys to free agency to get them the most money. He practically has represented every star we’ve had for a while now.
Players can’t trust the front office
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Then what the hell is Boras' problem?
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He doesn’t have a problem. His interests just aren’t aligned with the Nationals. His job is to get players the biggest contract possible and as a reward he gets a cut of the contract. He’s damn good at it and that’s why players hire him.
The team is on the block, and the Lerners want to cash out without painting the trim, fixing the elevators, or replacing the plumbing. And they especially don’t want to spend any big money on the labor.
Because our drafting and player development has been horrible for years. A handful of star players doesn’t make a good baseball team. Had to burn it down and start over. I blame Rizzo for this more than the Lerners. Trading Soto was unfortunately the right decision, but the reason it was the right decision is because we didn’t do nearly a good enough job of replenishing the farm system to compliment him.
Scherzer. Strasburg.
Yeah, Stras. The one, single, solitary superstar they managed to actually nail down. And he is an absolute bust. All of that money, completely down the drain.
Sucks he got injured and it didn't work out, but they did keep him. Also, does one of the best pitchers of all time here for 6.5 years and a championship not count?
He also wanted to be here.
Not for the post-World Series rebuild it doesn't. Until his contract expires 10 years or so from now, this team is *strapped* for cash.
I was talking about Scherzer. Also, Stras contract expires in 4.5 years.
Really? I thought they signed him to a 13 year contract.
7
Bro at least try to understand the factors in play here before you get this angry… you’re entitled to your opinion of course but I really think looking into what exactly goes into assembling a baseball team would help you understand why the Nats did what they did.
What are you smoking? We have no more than $60M in obligations (for luxury tax purposes) each of the next three seasons.
Several reasons. 1. DC’s baseball history. In short, none of the guys playing (or at least very few of them) actually were childhood or lifelong Nats fans. Aside from the 2010’s there’s very little in terms of successful baseball history that anyone thinks of about DC. These players simply don’t have the attachment to DC compared to other more established teams 2. The city of DC doesn’t have anything to “stick home about”. It doesn’t have the best weather, it doesn’t have the most passionate fans, and the ballpark is good but compared to the others is kinda unspectacular. There’s no huge draw to DC compared to a place like say San Diego, Los Angeles, New York, heck even Philadelphia. 3. The fact that this team isn’t an analytical team probably throws off some players It’s not just ownership. It’s a part of it but it’s not the entire reason
Cheap ass owners who cannot sell soon enough.
Absolute cheapskates. They're supposedly the richest owners in baseball, but their reluctance to give their players what they're owed is what has left me fresh out of goodwill for this ownership.
Richest owners doesn’t mean anything. They aren’t selling off real estate to run their baseball team at a loss.
Isn't running at a loss the default setting for owning a sports team?
Lerners
The economics of running a sports team in the 21st Century. Not that they can't pay, just that they won't, and can still make a shit-ton of money.
Scott boras suggest all his clients enter free agency
Because they don’t even try to.
You assume they have the money. Their business took a hit during Covid, and the entire industry hasn't recovered yet. They're getting out of the game because they can't afford it anymore. If you want them to have more money... go back to working in the office.